Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review  (Read 37337 times)

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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2018, 05:48:31 pm »

I've never had a SDS1000X+, so I cannot comment on it. However I happen to have a picture of the SLA1016 connectors:


Physically connector looks same as SPL1016 used with SDS1102X+. At this point I´m quite sure SPL1016 including cables is same.
It is, I am very sure.
I still have SDS1002X+ option SPL1016 in stock.

I compare the MSO head I have with this photo from Performa01 and they are identical AFAICT.






BUT then I look at the grabbers offered with/for X+ or X-E MSO HW and wonder why Siglent must squeeze last $ from X-E MSO option and then supply grabbers better suited to DIP use rather than SOIC.  :-//  :(



Those I have for SDS1kX+ MSO option are black and Siglent branded but appear the same as the grey EZ-HOOK USA made, and have dual side entry connections too.  :)
If these are Chinese copy of some better brand then they look much better suited to be included with X-E MSO HW than what Perfoma01 has that might better be described as from a Aliexpesss bargain bin.



« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 05:31:38 am by tautech »
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2018, 02:17:55 am »
Where are the pictures in the above posting?
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2018, 02:54:17 am »
Do you happen to have a SCSI drive cable and can maybe check if it's the same 68 pin/plug format ?

A cable such as this could then offer a better solution to the gawd awful ribbon cable:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCSI-3-Ultra-Cable-68-pin-HD68-Male-to-68-pin-HD68-Male-HP-166298-038-AF-0-60m/391907302964?hash=item5b3f7ede34:g:6GkAAOSwNsRZ41iJ

It's been nearly two decades that I've last used SCSI and it has been SCSI II back then. I think this has smaller (50 pin?) connectors.

SCSI III might be worth a try, but I most definitely don't have such a cable.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2018, 05:33:03 am »
Where are the pictures in the above posting?
Is that better ?
Added  ;image flags for some browsers to see.
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #79 on: March 17, 2018, 10:12:48 am »
There has been a discussion about unexpected inaccuracies when using AC-coupling in another thread:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/differences-in-measurements-50hz-keysight-1000x-scope/

This made me think that my performance verification for the split path input buffer in the Siglent SDS1104X-E might have been incomplete and I should look into this once again more deeply.

My initial concern was that I might have overlooked something, because I’ve only checked the frequency response above 10Hz and only with DC-coupling. I did not check Ac-coupling and thought there might be a hidden issue, maybe even below 10Hz, especially since the corner frequency for AC-coupling is rather low at ~1.2Hz on the SDS1104X-E.

I’ve used the FFT with peak hold and an external AWG to perform a 500 second sweep for the frequency range of 1Hz to 100Hz in order to get a high resolution frequency response graph. I did this twice, first for DC-coupling, storing the result as the blue reference trace REFA and a 2nd time for AC-coupling, which is the white math trace in the screenshot below.


SDS1104X-E_1-100Hz_DC_AC

As can be seen, there is actually a difference between the DC trace (blue) and the AC trace (white) and despite the low corner frequency the maximum deviation of the rms voltage is some 2.7% around 70Hz.

Knowing this, I’ve checked the difference at 70Hz in the time domain, see screenshot below.


SDS1104X-E_70Hz_DC_AC

Once again, the DC-coupled signal has been stored as a reference trace REFA and the AC-coupled signal is the green CH.4 trace. The automatic measurements indicate 600mVpp for DC-coupling (REFA) and 612mVpp for AC-coupling (Ch.4). This would be a difference of 2% or 3LSB.

As a conclusion, while there is a difference, it is hard to spot in the time domain without automatic measurements and 3LSB is certainly bearable. Since I’ve played with a split path buffer design a little while, I know that it is not easy to get a result as good as this, so my hat goes off to Siglent R&D for that.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 11:41:03 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2018, 12:35:48 am »
I do not want to disturb more this very valued deep review thread with this particular small thing so I do niot insert these example images here

Here in other thread can find some my tiny test about SDS1104X-E  AC and DC coupling low frequencies level flatness and AC corner freq (from low impedance source with).

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/differences-in-measurements-50hz-keysight-1000x-scope/msg1456048/#msg1456048
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Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2018, 05:53:10 am »
As a newbee I am not sure if this is the right place to post a question about the SDS1104X-E.
I'm considering to buy this scope but what about the acoustic noise of the fan.
Is it acceptable and is there an advise to replace the fan for a quiter one?

Many thanks in advance!
 

Offline 17_29bis

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2018, 06:14:54 am »
I am the owner of SDS1204X-E so I think I can share my experience.  The fan noise is noticeable but not to the point when I would think about replacing it right now (but may be in future). For comparison - this fan is the nosiest one among 5 running desktops ( I had to replace some of the stock fans with high quality NOCTUA  fans) , 2 RAID towers and 2 UPS running in the same room.  The second noisy one is the fan of APC Smart-UPS 1500.

I also owned SDS1202X-E for 2 weeks, its fan was more quiet. If its really critical for you I can probably measure the noise level using more scientific approaches.
 
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Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2018, 07:11:46 pm »
Thanks for your quick answer!
The NOCTUA fans are selled in the Netherlands so if it is necessary I will replace them.
I own an old 2 channel Agilent 54621A and that unit had a very loud fan I replaced with a silent fan

Again many thanks. :)
 

Offline Wessel Lemmer

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #84 on: March 24, 2018, 08:34:00 am »
There's a really annoying bug bothering me for a while and i'm wondering if someone else experienced it and know if some update is on the way to fix it.

43: Channel is inverted
45: Change the timebase a few clicks and the inverted channel goes back to non inverted, setting still shows inverted.
46: Change the inverted setting to non inverted and nothing happens
47: Change back to inverted and channel is inverted again on the new timebase

would appreciate it if someone knows something.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #85 on: March 24, 2018, 08:38:00 am »
Welcome to the forum Wessel.

Please state the firmware version in yours.
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Offline Wessel Lemmer

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #86 on: March 24, 2018, 08:45:01 am »
Thanks, i've joined long ago, i'm just not the posting type  :-[
Software version is 7.6.1.12E1
 

Offline Wessel Lemmer

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #87 on: March 24, 2018, 08:47:11 am »
sorry thats 7.6.1.12R1
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #88 on: March 24, 2018, 08:51:17 am »
Thanks, i've joined long ago, i'm just not the posting type  :-[
Software version is 7.6.1.12E1
Thanks.
Please install the latest version, 20R1.
You can download it here:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series

After installing ensure you have ~30 minutes warm up time before running the Self Cal.
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Offline Wessel Lemmer

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #89 on: March 24, 2018, 09:13:57 am »
Thank you, i tried looking for where to find updates, obviously without success. I've applied the update 7.6.1.20R1 now but i'm afraid its still happening.
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #90 on: March 24, 2018, 09:45:29 am »
Sorry, but I’m unable to reproduce this behavior. Everything works as expected with firmware 7.6.1.20R1.

Just to make sure it isn’t a problem with one specific channel, I’ve used all 4 channels in parallel, each of them fed with the same 50Hz sawtooth signal (for easy recognition of the signal polarity) and channels 2, 3 and 4 inverted.

First at 100ms/div:


SDS1104X-E_INV234_100ms

Now at 5ms/div:


SDS1104X-E_INV234_5ms

Quite obviously this works as expected.

Well, these tests are with a properly triggered signal in standard Y-t mode, so I tried to resemble the original scene with its somewhat unusual trigger settings (which don’t provide any trigger at all in this case anyway) and invoked roll mode. This results in untriggered roll mode at 100ms/div. Even changed the channel units to Ampere, just to make sure there is no hidden bug related to that:


SDS1104X-E_INV234_100ms_untriggered_roll

Now switching timebase to 10ms/div results in randomly (auto) triggered acquisitions, yet the signal polarity hasn’t changed on any channel.


SDS1104X-E_INV234_10ms_untriggered

« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 11:37:20 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #91 on: March 24, 2018, 10:09:39 am »
Thank you, i tried looking for where to find updates, obviously without success. I've applied the update 7.6.1.20R1 now but i'm afraid its still happening.
Just check 20R1 is showing in the System info page. If not apply it again.
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Offline Wessel Lemmer

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #92 on: March 24, 2018, 03:29:08 pm »
Wow, thanks for the efforts. yes the version is now 20R1 in the system page.
There is a real possibility that i'm just an idiot, but here's what i did to replicate

Default
ch1 set to 5v/div
switch on ch3
ch3 invert on
ch3 set to 50mv/div
timebase all the way to 1ns
timebase back to 2ms,it happens when i go from 1ms to 2ms
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #93 on: March 24, 2018, 03:49:34 pm »
Wow, thanks for the efforts. yes the version is now 20R1 in the system page.
There is a real possibility that i'm just an idiot, but here's what i did to replicate

Default
ch1 set to 5v/div
switch on ch3
ch3 invert on
ch3 set to 50mv/div
timebase all the way to 1ns
timebase back to 2ms,it happens when i go from 1ms to 2ms


No, not an idiot at all :) - you have just found a bug that isn't easy to spot.

Following your sequence, I could reproduce it.

I've notified Siglent R&D about the issue and expect a fix with the next firmware version.
 
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Offline Wessel Lemmer

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #94 on: March 24, 2018, 04:01:29 pm »
Thanks, and apologies if this wasn't the right place to post. Excellent review by the way and i have to say i love this scope. 
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #95 on: May 21, 2018, 10:38:23 pm »
A new firmware has passed the production test at Siglent and is ready to be released. This intermediate release has been triggered by a user request initially:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-ucurrent-with-siglent-sds1204x-e-or-sds1000x-e-series-(feature-request)

This was meant as a quick fix, but several other requests had to be considered as well. Together with other improvements that Siglent was already working on and/or had them ready, this is now not a small update at all.

Unfortunately I don’t have the time to take a closer look right now, but here is a brief overview and revision history.

Actually, there are three updates available:

•   Operating System
•   SDS1004X-E DSO Firmware
•   SLA1016 Digital Channel (MSO Option) Firmware


Operating System Update for SDS1004X_E_6.1.25R1 firmware

2018/04/27 7.1.6.1.25R1
1. From ADS version of 6.1.25R1, SDS1004X-E now indicates 5 sections of software versions, including the OS version ID.
2. Optimized the update rate for remote computer control.
3. Added support to include more versions of WIFI adapters.

You don’t need to update SDS1004X-E OS if you don’t care about these features - but the remote live view alone is certainly worth it.

CAUTION: You won’t see the additional field in the version number until you’ve updated to the latest firmware SDS1004X_E_6.1.25R1!


DSO Firmware Update SDS1004X_E_6.1.25R1

2018/05/02 6.1.25R1
1. Increased XY mode waveform refresh speed.
2. Changed the displayed system information screen. From ADS version of 6.1.25R1, the info screen now shows 5
sections of software versions, including the OS version ID.
3. Optimized remote webpage screen update rate. Requires both OS and ADS update which are located on the SIGLENT product webpage.
4. Add virtual control panel for PC and mobile terminals.
5. Added SCPI commands for Math waveforms (except FFT) and digital channel waveforms (ADS version of SLA1016
should be > 8.1.9). See the SIGLENT product webpage for software updates.
6. Added Digital Channel cursor support.
7. Optimized accuracy of horizontal measurement, especially when there are only a few samples at fast timebases.
8. ‘Link to Trigger’ menu modified to ‘Copy setting’.
9. Added ability to disable one direction of the full duplex encoders.
10. Fixed the bug related to displaying long IC2 decoded packets.
11. Fixed the bug: SDS1004X-E webpage update would sometimes fail.
12. Fixed the channel inversion bug when changing timebase from 1ms to 2ms.
13. Fixed the bug: Unreadable digital system information.


Digital Firmware Update SLA1016_8.1.9

2018/5/2 8.1.9
1. Added SCPI commands for remote digital channel control and data return


I just did a few quick tests and can confirm that the channel inversion bug has been fixed and the custom probes added. Here’s a demo screenshot for the custom probe D set to the smallest 1e-6 factor:


Custom Probe D 1E-6


The most impressive thing is the new web server though. We now get a playful Teletubby-like user interface, but much more importantly a real time update for the DSO screen. This works really well and allows true remote operation. The screen refresh rate appears quite high and it actually feels like looking at the real DSO screen – just bigger.

Screen Save now stores in PNG format, which is very welcome.


SDS1004X-E New Web Server

 
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Offline cardre

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #96 on: May 21, 2018, 10:55:07 pm »
A new firmware has passed the production test at Siglent and is ready to be released. This intermediate release has been triggered by a user request initially:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-ucurrent-with-siglent-sds1204x-e-or-sds1000x-e-series-(feature-request)

This looks like a great update. I must be too quick though, I can't see it on any of the download pages yet. Do you have a link for it, or is this coming shortly?
Thanks.
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #97 on: May 22, 2018, 07:18:30 am »
A new firmware has passed the production test at Siglent and is ready to be released. This intermediate release has been triggered by a user request initially:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-ucurrent-with-siglent-sds1204x-e-or-sds1000x-e-series-(feature-request)

This looks like a great update. I must be too quick though, I can't see it on any of the download pages yet. Do you have a link for it, or is this coming shortly?
Thanks.

I got a non-public preview for the new firmware from Siglent R&D directly, just as a very last verification step so to speak.

Unfortunately, I only have time at the weekends and only the holiday today enabled me to check the update process at least to be hassle-free and some of the advertised (and also non-advertised, like the custom probe menu for example) fixes and features actually look good at first glance.

Since I've not immediately discovered any major problems that would warrant the pull of the emergency brakes, I expect the new firmware to be publicly released very soon - maybe already tomorrow. Since I cannot test it any further at the moment, it'll be your turn now ;)
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #98 on: May 22, 2018, 07:39:27 am »
Interesting, thanks.
So no apparent input attenuation indicator added into the channel tab.  :-//

Can you share any discussion with R&D as to why that wasn't considered after we've discussed that in detail ?
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review
« Reply #99 on: May 22, 2018, 08:31:59 am »
Interesting, thanks.
So no apparent input attenuation indicator added into the channel tab.  :-//

Can you share any discussion with R&D as to why that wasn't considered after we've discussed that in detail ?

Sorry, but I cannot remember that I'd ever been involved in such a discussion, hence cannot know if and what has been considered by Siglent R&D.

It sounds like you have requested something, but then I would rather expect you to know the status. What am I missing?
 


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