Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?  (Read 55190 times)

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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #125 on: August 26, 2018, 09:02:33 am »
Can a Siglent 100 MHz now be hacked to 200 MHz? I can't seem to find much about that.

Perhaps you forget this your own msg?

So it is possible to hack an SDS1104X-E to be a SDS1204X-E.

You need to... <clip>

Interesting. It'd make the Siglent a lot more competitive compared to the DS1054Z.

All who have enough skills to do this as it should be done and do carefully his homeworks can find all needed right information (and can also filter out possible bullshits). For avoid any hassle with this method just important rule is: First brain, then muscle.

Follow these quoted msg's in they original threads and study these threads and possible related links there.



Some tiny tests can find also here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1623214/#msg1623214
After this message read fully least next all msg's least up to msg #831

There can find even some tests but perhaps it is better without further advertisements about this "feature".  User need also understand what are pros and cons specially because we do not have brickwall filter analog front end.
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #126 on: August 26, 2018, 11:10:28 am »
Some tiny tests can find also here.

Totally itsy-bitsy...   ^-^
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #127 on: August 26, 2018, 02:07:54 pm »
There will be times when you can't place a probe reference (gnd) lead where you want so don't discount needing a differential probe at some stage.

I definitely hear that, that's why it's bookmarked. But my builds usually have ground points with good access, and 90% of the testing is probably off the output jack anyway.

I gotta say one other point for the Siglent is the front panel design. I hate the appearance of the Rigol; it looks sloppy by comparison. Aesthetic matters, my day job is design. ;)
It's not about having access to a ground, is about needing to know the voltage between two points where neither of them is ground, like if you want to measure the voltage across a cathode and the grid of a cathode follower, to look at the bias while the signal is present. If you probe both in reference to ground which are swinging 20V at 100V from ground and you try to measure that signal for the time you subtracted them both in the math (AKA poors man differential probe) you are left with very little signal, you wanted to look for, as it was a small signal on top of a big common mode signal.

JS
Sure there are a few ways to measure floating potentials however there are times when you need the proper gear.
Say a mains phase control high-side pair of reversed biased SCR's, gates elevated and driven by pulse xformers.
Never did I think that my hobby of electronics would have me doing that stuff but once you have the gear and some knowledge it's not hard but it is dangerous and there must be no distractions. Careful work technique too, one hand in back pocket at all times when powered so to offer no electrical path across the body should you touch something hot.
A UJT had failed and when replaced we had to adjust the set points so both SCR's were turning on at the same point in opposite curves of the mains sine wave so to share the load properly. Fun stuff and led me more into power electronics as my greatest interest coupled with simple digital control.  :)
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #128 on: August 26, 2018, 05:27:30 pm »
there are times when you need the proper gear.

Speaking of having the proper gear, I'm surprised you never pointed out that the 1004X-E stuff is compatible with any Siglent AWG, and in any case besides the add-on it doesn't need the stupid $$$ option. For $20 less than that stupid AWG add-on, I can get the SDG805 which I assume should be more than enough for audio work (not that I need one any time soon, I'm content with my cheap Tenma audio generator for now).

You gotta up your sales skillz bro. ;)

Rigol Pros:
Physical side buttons
UI simplicity
Firmware updates probably less buggy.
Laziness *(already on my bench)
Price

Siglent Pros:
hackable to 200Mhz
Higher multi-channel sampling
1M FFT
No side buttons = more screen space for waveforms
Front panel not as ugly (to me)
LXI/LAN speed
400VDC input (vs 300VDC) (yes, I know it doesn't matter, but a plus is a plus and mistakes happen)
Optional extras that aren't worth the money especially thanks to toys like the AD2
Compatible with Siglent standalone AWGs without the stupid option upgrade
Works with the $10 WiFi dongle


I'm going to RMA the Rigol and try the Siglent out. If it's annoying or sucks, it also has a 30 day return policy.

I hate to ask this because they're fugly and over-sized, but does anybody really believe the Instek scopes are more reliable for some reason than Rigol or Siglent? From watching Dave's tear-down videos I got the opposite impression, but I saw a comment that said otherwise so I thought I should ask. The only thing I do like about the comparable Instek is the individual vertical controls.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 05:38:32 pm by KungFuJosh »
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #129 on: August 26, 2018, 08:26:32 pm »
I hate to ask this because they're fugly and over-sized, but does anybody really believe the Instek scopes are more reliable for some reason than Rigol or Siglent? From watching Dave's tear-down videos I got the opposite impression, but I saw a comment that said otherwise so I thought I should ask. The only thing I do like about the comparable Instek is the individual vertical controls.
The GW Insteks are way less buggy compared to Rigol and Siglent especially when it comes to newly released equipment and if you find a bug it gets fixed quickly. So all in all the testing-before-releasing and service are better.The GW Instek oscilloscopes are also covered by a limited lifetime warranty which ends 5 years after GW Instek stops producing the model; so you get at least 5 years of warranty. I think it also shows the confidence GW Instek has in the quality of their products.

I think the one Dave took apart is a pre-production model. In my GDS-2204E there is only one integrated board (without the add-on boards shown in Dave's video).
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Offline JS

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #130 on: August 26, 2018, 09:26:49 pm »


Sure there are a few ways to measure floating potentials however there are times when you need the proper gear.
Say a mains phase control high-side pair of reversed biased SCR's, gates elevated and driven by pulse xformers.
Never did I think that my hobby of electronics would have me doing that stuff but once you have the gear and some knowledge it's not hard but it is dangerous and there must be no distractions. Careful work technique too, one hand in back pocket at all times when powered so to offer no electrical path across the body should you touch something hot.
A UJT had failed and when replaced we had to adjust the set points so both SCR's were turning on at the same point in opposite curves of the mains sine wave so to share the load properly. Fun stuff and led me more into power electronics as my greatest interest coupled with simple digital control.  :)

Sorry if I didn't explained my self clear enough, I'm saying a differential prpbes becomes necessary pretty fast, as you can only reject so much with a poors man one, which might be fine for a CM noise the same level of the NM signal. Once the CM becomes bigger than the NM you kind of need a differential probe and if the CM is much grater than the signal you want an isolation probe.

JS

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Offline BillB

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #131 on: August 26, 2018, 09:34:21 pm »
I'm going to RMA the Rigol and try the Siglent out. If it's annoying or sucks, it also has a 30 day return policy.

:phew:  I don't think I've ever deliberated as much for anything... school, career, spouse, that capital murder case I sat on a jury for...



 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #132 on: August 26, 2018, 10:24:30 pm »
:phew:  I don't think I've ever deliberated as much for anything... school, career, spouse, that capital murder case I sat on a jury for...
Oh my, you should see the stacks of research and documentation I've produced to decide on some things.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #133 on: August 27, 2018, 01:19:53 am »
:phew:  I don't think I've ever deliberated as much for anything... school, career, spouse, that capital murder case I sat on a jury for...

 :-DD Well, it was both entertaining and educational for me.

The stupid thing is I had the SDS1202X-E on my wishlist on Amazon for about year, and I didn't buy it because 1. I had no idea if it was any good/good enough for my needs, and 2. the ad said "200 mhz" and I thought anybody selling an oscilloscope should know the difference between mHz and MHz.

Oh my, you should see the stacks of research and documentation I've produced to decide on some things.

This is more public, but less involved than my recent hunt for camera lenses. I bought, tested, and returned a lot (nobody cares about quality anymore, even in the $1K price range)...finally settled on a couple nice ones.

I think the one Dave took apart is a pre-production model. In my GDS-2204E there is only one integrated board (without the add-on boards shown in Dave's video).

That's interesting about the updates, but I'm guessing the difference between your scope and the one in Dave's video is that your scope costs twice as much. I'm not looking to be anywhere near that price range. If I was spending that much I'd probably get stuck buying an R&S just because they're sexy. ;)
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #134 on: August 27, 2018, 01:56:28 am »
I'm going to RMA the Rigol and try the Siglent out. If it's annoying or sucks, it also has a 30 day return policy.

Looking forward to reading your comparison after you've had a little time with the Siglent.

Quote
I hate to ask this because they're fugly and over-sized, but does anybody really believe the Instek scopes are more reliable for some reason than Rigol or Siglent? From watching Dave's tear-down videos I got the opposite impression, but I saw a comment that said otherwise so I thought I should ask. The only thing I do like about the comparable Instek is the individual vertical controls.

I've heard both sides on that one — no surprise, huh. There's no perfect scope (nor anything else, practically). I also like the individual vertical controls (very much), but I had already gotten the 1054Z before that Instek was available. I don't regret my purchase, but still enjoy seeing the new things coming out.
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Offline JS

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #135 on: August 27, 2018, 03:20:56 am »
:phew:  I don't think I've ever deliberated as much for anything... school, career, spouse, that capital murder case I sat on a jury for...

 :-DD Well, it was both entertaining and educational for me.

The stupid thing is I had the SDS1202X-E on my wishlist on Amazon for about year, and I didn't buy it because 1. I had no idea if it was any good/good enough for my needs, and 2. the ad said "200 mhz" and I thought anybody selling an oscilloscope should know the difference between mHz and MHz.

Oh my, you should see the stacks of research and documentation I've produced to decide on some things.

This is more public, but less involved than my recent hunt for camera lenses. I bought, tested, and returned a lot (nobody cares about quality anymore, even in the $1K price range)...finally settled on a couple nice ones.

I think the one Dave took apart is a pre-production model. In my GDS-2204E there is only one integrated board (without the add-on boards shown in Dave's video).

That's interesting about the updates, but I'm guessing the difference between your scope and the one in Dave's video is that your scope costs twice as much. I'm not looking to be anywhere near that price range. If I was spending that much I'd probably get stuck buying an R&S just because they're sexy. ;)
  Be patience with the Siglent, from what I've read it's a bit more hard to get used to... But you should get used to it in the end and have more functionality into it. If you don't mind the extra $$ I think it clearly is the winner here.

 Funny you mention camera lenses, I'm not a even a hobbyist on that but I came across a few and I learned how to properly use a DSLR. I had a GF who had a T4i kit with a 18-135 lens, it was quite nice and the lens hold itself pretty nicely too, against some other more professional ones I've seen. Later my sister decided to get one but she didn't know a thing about them, I ended buying a T3i with the same kit lens to start with. Funny surprise the quality difference between those two lenses, my sister's was much harder to focus (1/4 turn against a much longer of the other ) and it wouldn't hold focus while you zoom in and out as the T4i one did, really hard to get good focus with the lens wide open. That's one that doesn't appear on spec sheet either, even after knowing the difference I haven't seen any difference in the specs, models or branding on publications, hard to know if I needed to buy another one now. Right now my sister's is living with a professional photographer who has mostly canon gear so her lens went to the shelf and he uses her camera body with a wide range of lenses she has at her disposal.

  Good luck with the other one and remember to come back to this thread to put your findings out. I've seen a lot of reviews about this two but not a single comparison in your actual position trying to decide between both and having both to use for a while and decide.

JS
If I don't know how it works, I prefer not to turn it on.
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #136 on: August 27, 2018, 03:35:21 am »
  Good luck with the other one and remember to come back to this thread to put your findings out. I've seen a lot of reviews about this two but not a single comparison in your actual position trying to decide between both and having both to use for a while and decide.

JS

Thanks, I'll definitely post my opinion once I form one. I'm not too worried about figuring it out. It has an "auto set" button just like the Rigol. ;)

The features where the Rigol was lacking like the Siglent's better FFT, or the advanced network stuff should be interesting.
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #137 on: August 27, 2018, 03:52:08 am »
Right now, I see one of the vendors on eBay selling MicSig 100MHz 1400V differential probes has them for $120:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=micsig+dp10013&_sacat=0&_sop=15

I just ordered one for $115 (best offer). Hopefully the thing works well. Thanks for the ebay idea, saved me $45 vs. the same thing I was looking at on Amazon.
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Offline JS

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #138 on: August 27, 2018, 04:56:45 am »
Thanks, I'll definitely post my opinion once I form one. I'm not too worried about figuring it out. It has an "auto set" button just like the Rigol. ;)
|O |O |O |O
The first thing I did with my Rigol out of the box was disable that function, it only works to mess the measurements you were making by missing a button. They even made it big and easy to press right at the top of the instrument, between the clear and run buttons you press when you want to repeat the same measurement  |O |O |O |O
Quote
The features where the Rigol was lacking like the Siglent's better FFT, or the advanced network stuff should be interesting.
  You won't see the real differences on every day use between the two, there are things you can make with one that you can with the other, but they are few and very specific. FFT will show a difference, but how often do you actually need the difference between both is not clear. You could probably set up a few tests to try the things you can do with the new one, like probing the data lines in your car, or some low level measurements.

  In any case, good luck with it and enjoy it! Now my head hurts for actually going and hitting the wall with it as you made me remember the auto button on scopes... Don't come with the UNDO option, not good enough for me, just leave the auto button on a hidden place, like the tinny recessed ones you hit with a sharp point, and if you want a big sign right next to it and a blinking arrow so a newbie can find it, but nobody can hit it accidentally. You will always have a probe next to you to press it if you need it.

JS
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #139 on: August 27, 2018, 05:15:04 am »
Thanks, I'll definitely post my opinion once I form one. I'm not too worried about figuring it out. It has an "auto set" button just like the Rigol. ;)
|O |O |O |O
The first thing I did with my Rigol out of the box was disable that function, it only works to mess the measurements you were making by missing a button. They even made it big and easy to press right at the top of the instrument, between the clear and run buttons you press when you want to repeat the same measurement  |O |O |O |O
Quote
The features where the Rigol was lacking like the Siglent's better FFT, or the advanced network stuff should be interesting.
  You won't see the real differences on every day use between the two, there are things you can make with one that you can with the other, but they are few and very specific. FFT will show a difference, but how often do you actually need the difference between both is not clear. You could probably set up a few tests to try the things you can do with the new one, like probing the data lines in your car, or some low level measurements.

  In any case, good luck with it and enjoy it! Now my head hurts for actually going and hitting the wall with it as you made me remember the auto button on scopes... Don't come with the UNDO option, not good enough for me, just leave the auto button on a hidden place, like the tinny recessed ones you hit with a sharp point, and if you want a big sign right next to it and a blinking arrow so a newbie can find it, but nobody can hit it accidentally. You will always have a probe next to you to press it if you need it.

JS
;D
X-E have a Autoset Undo !

My demo's out ATM or I'd put up a screenshot of it.
From another thread
Random settings


Autoset on above

« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 05:34:48 am by tautech »
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Offline JS

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #140 on: August 27, 2018, 06:34:52 am »


Don't come with the UNDO option, not good enough for me, just leave the auto button on a hidden place, like the tinny recessed ones you hit with a sharp point, and if you want a big sign right next to it and a blinking arrow so a newbie can find it, but nobody can hit it accidentally. You will always have a probe next to you to press it if you need it.

JS
;D
X-E have a Autoset Undo !

My demo's out ATM or I'd put up a screenshot of it.
From another thread
Random settings


Autoset on above

I meant don't mention, or don't even come on. The undo button is only there for a single screen, if I go with the next button press as I already knew I was trying to capture again I'd ve screwed. I know why they put it, I just can't live with it. The dissable option is needed as I'm not the only who thinks this, but still annoys me there is one of the most accessible buttons in the thing I can't use for anything else. Would be nice to be AUTO as default but I can assign whatever quick access I want, like the record\segmented memory mode in the Rigol which is pretty well hidden.

JS

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #141 on: August 27, 2018, 06:48:05 am »
Right now, I see one of the vendors on eBay selling MicSig 100MHz 1400V differential probes has them for $120:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=micsig+dp10013&_sacat=0&_sop=15

I just ordered one for $115 (best offer). Hopefully the thing works well. Thanks for the ebay idea, saved me $45 vs. the same thing I was looking at on Amazon.

Sure thing. Was that from the same vendor that had it discounted to $119 (looks like it went up a bit)? It sure is a good price. I'm tempted to get one, but I already have an HVP-70 (got it before Micsig released theirs).
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #142 on: August 27, 2018, 06:57:11 am »

X-E have a Autoset Undo !


So does DS1000Z...
 
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #143 on: August 27, 2018, 07:42:53 am »
I meant don't mention, or don't even come on. The undo button is only there for a single screen, if I go with the next button press as I already knew I was trying to capture again I'd ve screwed. I know why they put it, I just can't live with it. The dissable option is needed as I'm not the only who thinks this, but still annoys me there is one of the most accessible buttons in the thing I can't use for anything else. Would be nice to be AUTO as default but I can assign whatever quick access I want, like the record\segmented memory mode in the Rigol which is pretty well hidden.

JS
I get exactly where you're coming from as like you, I despise Autoset too.
I never use the damned thing as IMHO it holds the user back from learning how to properly 'drive' a scope.  :horse:
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Offline JS

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #144 on: August 27, 2018, 08:10:26 am »
I get exactly where you're coming from as like you, I despise Autoset too.
I never use the damned thing as IMHO it holds the user back from learning how to properly 'drive' a scope.  :horse:
  What other want to learn is a bit over me, I always suggests not to use it. But for my own use, let's say the function did worked as expected and shows me a good signal, I have to go and check every single parameter because I don't know what I'm looking at, so it takes me longer and I understand less than doing it myself. There are hard to trigger signals, and it could help, but it usually doesn't anyway as hard to trigger signals are harder for the auto function as well...
  Worst thing still is the big USELESS button.

JS
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #145 on: August 27, 2018, 08:29:43 am »
I think the one Dave took apart is a pre-production model. In my GDS-2204E there is only one integrated board (without the add-on boards shown in Dave's video).
That's interesting about the updates, but I'm guessing the difference between your scope and the one in Dave's video is that your scope costs twice as much. I'm not looking to be anywhere near that price range. If I was spending that much I'd probably get stuck buying an R&S just because they're sexy. ;)
The one I have has a bigger screen but the GDS1054B can be hacked nowadays. I don't know if that includes a higher bandwidth but it gives you a pretty complete scope for a reasonable price.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #146 on: August 27, 2018, 08:46:51 am »
X-E have a Autoset Undo !

The Rigol has that, too:


(neener neener)

One good thing on the Rigol is that after you press it you get a secondary menu that allows you to choose another step on the process, eg. zoom in on a single rising edge - see above.

You won't see the real differences on every day use between the two

Oh, NOW they come out of the woodwork.  :box:
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:22:51 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #147 on: August 27, 2018, 09:15:18 am »
I have to go and check every single parameter because I don't know what I'm looking at, so it takes me longer and I understand less than doing it myself.

How is that faster/easier than looking at three numbers on screen?

Sounds like lack of practice to me.

nb. I almost never use it either, I'm just saying that doesn't sound like a good reason.

It certainly does cause a hiccup, a discontinuity or whatever you want to call it, in the mental process. I'm not sure if that's because it locks up the scope for two seconds while it thinks about it whereas with knobs you'd already be in there twiddling.

I think the problem is it changes several parameters at once. Maybe it should be divided into auto-vertical and auto-horizontal. It would be nice to have very fine control over it to find a sweet spot.

(or maybe it's useful as-is and we all need just to practice more.  :popcorn:)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:41:11 am by Fungus »
 

Offline JS

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #148 on: August 27, 2018, 10:15:01 am »


I have to go and check every single parameter because I don't know what I'm looking at, so it takes me longer and I understand less than doing it myself.

How is that faster/easier than looking at three numbers on screen?

Sounds like lack of practice to me.

nb. I almost never use it either, I'm just saying that doesn't sound like a good reason.

It certainly does cause a hiccup, a discontinuity or whatever you want to call it, in the mental process. I'm not sure if that's because it locks up the scope for two seconds while it thinks about it whereas with knobs you'd already be in there twiddling.

I think the problem is it changes several parameters at once. Maybe it should be divided into auto-vertical and auto-horizontal. It would be nice to have very fine control over it to find a sweet spot.

(or maybe it's useful as-is and we all need just to practice more.  :popcorn:)

It's not just three I think, as it could change the coupling, the adquisition, the memory depth, the display config, the whole trigger setup, and probably a few more and not all of them are displayed in the main screen at first. And not knowing all of those could trick you to belive whats in the display.

Also not every scope you come across comes to the same conclusion, or will behave the same way.

I decide each one of those parameters based on a few factors, and the process lends me to know what I'm looking at. For instance, using high rea or average is only fine if I first use normal adquisition and all looks fine as averaging will show a better picture and not hide any important information.

JS

If I don't know how it works, I prefer not to turn it on.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #149 on: August 27, 2018, 10:37:11 am »
It's not just three I think, as it could change the coupling, the adquisition, the memory depth, the display config, the whole trigger setup, and probably a few more and not all of them are displayed in the main screen at first. And not knowing all of those could trick you to belive whats in the display.

Yes, I know, I meant how many things you need to look at to re-orient yourself - voltage, frequency, coupling, what else?

(and on a Rigol you can tell it not to change the coupling)

 


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