Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?  (Read 55324 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline JS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 916
  • Country: ar
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #275 on: September 02, 2018, 02:10:37 pm »


Rigol do not have Stdev measurement. (I do not mean measurements statistics dev but signal data Stdev what is very useful feature. If know where and how to use it.
It does have RMS, which is pretty much the same math, the sqrt of the average of the sqares of the samples... You only need to take the signal AC coupled, I don't remember if it doesn't do the RMS on AC only ignoring DC.

Is my math way off?

JS

JS

If I don't know how it works, I prefer not to turn it on.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #276 on: September 02, 2018, 02:12:31 pm »
Sorry. My band for not looking "FOV" up in the Siglent dictionary. I guess I'm just used to "Overshoot" being labelled, um, "Overshoot".

I'll give you that one, I hate the way they label certain things. Hey, did I mention I think it's stupid that they label memory depth "Curr" - pretty crazy, right?
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #277 on: September 02, 2018, 02:31:15 pm »
Oh, snap! Looks like Siglent gets the math point too. 38 math functions for Siglent, and only 37 for Rigol. :box:

Sorry, but no.

I was only counting the number of measurements on the Rigol's side buttons.

To get things like averages, min, max, standard deviation, etc. on the Rigol you have to turn on the separate "stats" display, they're not on the buttons.

(And if you're going to include channel delays, should we include the Rigol's cursor measurements? The Siglent would just fall even further behind)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 02:33:45 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline KungFuJosh

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #278 on: September 02, 2018, 02:37:17 pm »
Oh, snap! Looks like Siglent gets the math point too. 38 math functions for Siglent, and only 37 for Rigol. :box:

Sorry, but no.

I was only counting the number of measurements on the Rigol's side buttons.

To get things like averages, min, max, standard deviation, etc. on the Rigol you have to turn on the separate "stats" display, they're not on the buttons.

(And if you're going to include channel delays, should we include the Rigol's cursor measurements? The Siglent would just fall even further behind)

37 is still less than 38, right?

The Siglent also has a separate stats button. :popcorn:
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #279 on: September 02, 2018, 02:39:12 pm »
It does have RMS, which is pretty much the same math, the sqrt of the average of the sqares of the samples... You only need to take the signal AC coupled, I don't remember if it doesn't do the RMS on AC only ignoring DC.

Rigol also has "Periodic RMS" which gives a slightly more accurate answer than RMS on periodic signals by aligning the RMS calculation to whole waveforms. That way you don't add any partial waveforms to the mix.
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #280 on: September 02, 2018, 02:48:40 pm »
37 is still less than 38, right?

At least six of those 38 don't really count because they're all under the stats on the Rigol ("Min", "Max", "Mean", Cmean", "Sdev", "Cstd").

Rigol can show 22 new measurements in stats mode, that makes 59.  :popcorn:

Edit: That's not true, it's less.

The Siglent also has a separate stats button.

I know.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 03:15:22 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline KungFuJosh

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #281 on: September 02, 2018, 03:03:04 pm »
37 is still less than 38, right?

At least six of those 38 don't really count because they're all under the stats on the Rigol ("Min", "Max", "Mean", Cmean", "Sdev", "Cstd").

Rigol can show 22 new measurements in stats mode, that makes 59.  :popcorn:


The Siglent also has a separate stats button.

I know.

The Rigol Manual says:

"Auto measurements of 32 waveform parameters and measurement functions
with statistic." Sounds like even less to me. :popcorn:
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #282 on: September 02, 2018, 03:08:23 pm »
The Rigol Manual says:

"Auto measurements of 32 waveform parameters and measurement functions
with statistic." Sounds like even less to me. :popcorn:

Weird, mine says 33:


But, I've counted them twice and I have 17 functions on the side buttons under "Vertical" and 20 under "Horizontal".

« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 03:10:08 pm by Fungus »
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #283 on: September 02, 2018, 03:30:57 pm »
I've counted them twice and I have 17 functions on the side buttons under "Vertical" and 20 under "Horizontal".

The only thing I can think of is that the four delay/phase measurements aren't listed in that section of the manual but they are on the side buttons.

33+4 = 37

 :-//

Add in the stats: Min, Max, Avg, Std.Dev. and that's 41.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 03:35:16 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline rf-loop

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3358
  • Country: cn
  • Born with DLL21 in hand
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #284 on: September 02, 2018, 03:31:04 pm »
Rigol do not have Stdev measurement. (I do not mean measurements statistics dev but signal data Stdev what is very useful feature. If know where and how to use it.

You can start lesson one here, page 14,  and count: Take your fingers for help. Oh but wait...how you count to 38 using fingers. Perhaps you can mark every 10 so that instead of 28 you finally get 38... exercise...exercise...

Oh, snap! Looks like Siglent gets the math point too. 38 math functions for Siglent, and only 37 for Rigol. :box:

You mean measurements.
With math functions Siglent is not so rich. Just usual +, -, *, /, d/dt , ∫dt , √ and FFT. Of course 1M FFT is lot if compare some others who have 2 - 64k. (Rigol 1kZ perhaps 16k?)
(lets hope some day there is also some automatic measurements for FFT)

Also there is not user adjustable some measurements parameters. Example rise and fall times are only between 10 and 90% and so on.

Of course it is nice to want/wish more. But, top priority is that what there is these need work perfect first.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 03:37:15 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
-
Harmony OS
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #285 on: September 02, 2018, 03:36:01 pm »
Example rise and fall times are only between 10 and 90% and so on.

That's an industry standard so don't expect them to change it.
 

Offline rf-loop

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3358
  • Country: cn
  • Born with DLL21 in hand
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #286 on: September 02, 2018, 03:42:49 pm »
Example rise and fall times are only between 10 and 90% and so on.

That's an industry standard so don't expect them to change it.

Yes and no.
Perhaps you have never used any Hewlett-Packard oscilloscopes or others where also can adjust these limits and HP also explain why.  Also some components manufacturers use...
10/90 is not written in stone - even when it is so popular and as "default".  More study and experience and you know more. But warning: "knowledge increases the pain".  Also more you know things come more complex.

Or take example Silicon Labs AN766
"Take for example a differential LVDS signal which has a 350 mV single ended amplitude and a 400 ps rise and fall time measured at 20% and 80%, the differential slew rate would be (2 x 350 mV x 0.6) / (400 ps) or 1.05 V/ns. For the purpose of this application note only differential slew rate is used."


10/90 is NOT standard - even if it is mostly used.

Instead of 0.35 then just use 0.22 if thinking BW using rt.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 04:12:25 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
-
Harmony OS
 
The following users thanked this post: tautech

Online BillB

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 612
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #287 on: September 02, 2018, 04:09:06 pm »
Awesome thread guys!  Keep it going!  :clap:

 :popcorn:
 
The following users thanked this post: egonotto, Fungus

Offline SMB784

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 295
  • Country: us
    • Tequity Surplus
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #288 on: September 02, 2018, 04:22:38 pm »
I think we have pretty well talked this issue to death.

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #289 on: September 02, 2018, 04:25:50 pm »
I think we have pretty well talked this issue to death.

Who's "we"?
 

Offline KungFuJosh

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #290 on: September 02, 2018, 04:46:54 pm »
Oh no. I didn't think I was gonna care that much about the web view / control... But damn.

Setup took seconds. The control knob on the Siglent is speed sensitive, so setting the IP manually was fast and easy. I didn't know that about the knob, and that's fantastic.

Then being able to both control the scope, and update the firmware from my web browser is pretty awesome.

Can the Rigol run full screen on a full high definition monitor like the attached screenshot (note the resolution), on any computer platform, without installing anything new? I don't think so. ;)

Now my scope has a Full HD 24" screen instead of that little 7" screen. Not too bad. :popcorn:
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #291 on: September 02, 2018, 05:44:29 pm »
Now my scope has a Full HD 24" screen instead of that little 7" screen. Not too bad. :popcorn:

It doesn't have more pixels though, it's just stretching the image.

 

Offline KungFuJosh

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #292 on: September 02, 2018, 05:54:00 pm »
Now my scope has a Full HD 24" screen instead of that little 7" screen. Not too bad. :popcorn:

It doesn't have more pixels though, it's just stretching the image.

That stretch is called flexibility. Something the Rigol doesn't have in this case. :-DD
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #293 on: September 02, 2018, 05:58:29 pm »
Now my scope has a Full HD 24" screen instead of that little 7" screen. Not too bad. :popcorn:

It doesn't have more pixels though, it's just stretching the image.

That stretch is called flexibility. Something the Rigol doesn't have in this case. :-DD

There's plenty of screen capture and remote control programs for the Rigol, it's just not built-in as a web server.

 

Offline KungFuJosh

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #294 on: September 02, 2018, 06:03:10 pm »
There's plenty of screen capture and remote control programs for the Rigol, it's just not built-in as a web server.

More complicated, bloated, slower, and less convenient. Point goes to Siglent. Siglent once again made the user experience easier, faster, and better.
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #295 on: September 02, 2018, 06:04:02 pm »
I don't know what frame rates the Siglent gets, it will be difficult to measure visually.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #296 on: September 02, 2018, 06:08:33 pm »
I don't know what frame rates the Siglent gets, it will be difficult to measure visually.

The Siglent looks like realtime with no noticeable lag. Everything I read about remote connecting the Rigol complained about lag.

I was going to test the Rigol software before I returned it, but everybody told me not to bother with the oversized slow, bloatware... So, there's that.
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #297 on: September 02, 2018, 06:11:52 pm »
I was going to test the Rigol software before I returned it, but everybody told me not to bother with the oversized slow, bloatware... So, there's that.

I never tried it. Most of the programs to do it seem to be some sort of experimental Python scripts. Ew.

 

Offline KungFuJosh

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #298 on: September 02, 2018, 06:17:57 pm »
I never tried it. Most of the programs to do it seem to be some sort of experimental Python scripts. Ew.

Haha, we can certainly agree on that. Ew. ;D
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11444
  • Country: 00
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #299 on: September 02, 2018, 07:05:16 pm »
I might knock up a quick test program to see how long it takes to grab a screen over LAN.

The DS1054Z isn't famous for fast network response though.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf