Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?  (Read 55393 times)

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Offline wpwrak

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #325 on: September 03, 2018, 02:36:56 pm »
Dave's teardown shows that the correcponding locations on the SDS1104X-E's PCB are left unpopulated).

Where on the PCB would that be ? I didn't see anything that looks like an RTC or a power source for it on mine. Unless it's in the PSU or in the analog FE cans.

I took some pictures of the innards of my 1104X-E (leaving out the PSU, which doesn't seem to contain anything programmable, and the analog cans which I haven't dared to pry open yet). I still have to post-process (crop, contrast-adjust, annotate, webify, etc.) them, but they may already be useful if you want to research some details (warning: that repo is currently ~425 MB, twice that if checked out):
https://github.com/wpwrak/1104xe-pix
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #326 on: September 03, 2018, 03:03:36 pm »
And it seems that both of them haven't got a real time clock (Rigol for sure and Dave's teardown shows that the correcponding locations on the SDS1104X-E's PCB are left unpopulated). If this is still the case with the "Curr."  ;)  production models is soemthing that needs to be figured out. Scopes with RTC usually also memorize the file designation counters in the battery-backed CMOS ram. It's also big "Plus(es)" to be able to sort stored waveforms / screenshot via the file date.

Absolutely agree! There should be a timestamp on the screenshots and the filename in my opinion.
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #327 on: September 03, 2018, 03:06:41 pm »
Buy another memory stick just for use with the scope, simple !
In the US you should be able to get 8G sticks for less than $5.

Make folders on it and save project file to the same folder, simple !

Or if you want to properly document screenshots, save them from the Webserver using a PC connection and mouse and keyboard to properly name them, date them or whatever.

I spent about $11 and bought a 32GB USB3.1 memory stick just for use with the scope. And I don't want to leave every screenshot I take for the next 10 years on it, even though it can store them all just fine. That's ridiculous. Everything you're describing is extra steps to make up for the shortcomings of the scopes.

In other word(s): fail. :--
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Offline MT

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #328 on: September 03, 2018, 03:56:25 pm »
So the SDS1104 X is better then Rigol 1054, but how do the Sigletto fan sounds? Needs replacement?
so buying from Batronix or https://www.siglent.eu/sds1104x-e.html is just a euro difference.
Ah! Batterfly dude is 416+vat https://www.batterfly.com/shop/siglent-sds1104x-e
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 05:01:01 pm by MT »
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #329 on: September 03, 2018, 03:58:20 pm »
Siglent.eu isn't Siglent themselves but a dealer. Why Siglent allows to use their brand name like that by a third party is beyond me.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #330 on: September 03, 2018, 04:29:46 pm »
Dave's teardown shows that the correcponding locations on the SDS1104X-E's PCB are left unpopulated).

Where on the PCB would that be ? I didn't see anything that looks like an RTC or a power source for it on mine. Unless it's in the PSU or in the analog FE cans.
...

Sorry, seems like I confused the teardowns, the one I was referring to was the one of the SDS1202X:


(at about 5:00 minutes into the video).

My fault...the SDS1204X-E indeed has no indication that Siglent ever planned to include an RTC.

Seems like the manufacturers started to add RTCs only above the 1k$ limit (SDS2000X, >DS2000(A)...)

Cheers,
Thomas
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 04:49:01 pm by TurboTom »
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #331 on: September 03, 2018, 04:30:19 pm »
So the SDS1104 X is better then Rigol 1054, but how do the Sigletto fan sounds? Needs replacement?
so buying from Batronix or https://www.siglent.eu/sds1104x-e.html is just a euro difference.

I didn't do a db level to compare fan noise between models, unfortunately. I didn't find either of them to be obnoxiously loud, or quite quiet enough either.

I would probably replace the fan in the Siglent, but it has the stupid warranty sticker on the bottom, and it isn't loud enough for me to warrant a void warranty.
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 
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Offline bhishmar

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #332 on: September 03, 2018, 05:21:43 pm »
@KungFuJosh
I am planning to acquire the Rigol DS1054Z DSO.

Can u please provide the following details for the DS1054Z unit acquired by you?

1. Firmware Version Number
2. Board version number
3. Were you able to successfully unlock/upgrade to all the upgrade options using rigol-1.03d @ http://www.gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/    using option= "DSER" ?

4. Which method is used:  Telnet or front-panel buttons?

5. Did u detect any side effect (Self-Calibration ... etc ) after this upgrade?

 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #333 on: September 03, 2018, 05:31:54 pm »
@KungFuJosh
I am planning to acquire the Rigol DS1054Z DSO.

Can u please provide the following details for the DS1054Z unit acquired by you?

1. Firmware Version Number
2. Board version number
3. Were you able to successfully unlock/upgrade to all the upgrade options using rigol-1.03d @ http://www.gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/    using option= "DSER" ?

4. Which method is used:  Telnet or front-panel buttons?

5. Did u detect any side effect (Self-Calibration ... etc ) after this upgrade?

I updated to the latest firmware while I had it, but I returned the DS1054Z last week.

I didn't do any of the hacks. I bought the DS1054Z from an authorized dealer that included all the "options" for free, except for the bandwidth, which is a hack. The extra bandwidth isn't useful to me, so I didn't bother with it. If you buy from an authorized dealer, you should still get all the options free. Unless you need more than 50MHz, I don't see the point in the hack, you're asking for other potential issues including needing better probes.
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 
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Offline bhishmar

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #334 on: September 03, 2018, 05:49:27 pm »

I updated to the latest firmware while I had it, but I returned the DS1054Z last week.
....................
Thanks for ur quick reply KungFuJosh.

a) What was the original firmware rev num ?
b) What was the latest version number to which you updated?
c) Board Revision number?
d) Would you care to share the dealer website url?

 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #335 on: September 03, 2018, 05:59:01 pm »

I updated to the latest firmware while I had it, but I returned the DS1054Z last week.
....................
Thanks for ur quick reply KungFuJosh.

a) What was the original firmware rev num ?
b) What was the latest version number to which you updated?
c) Board Revision number?
d) Would you care to share the dealer website url?

a,b,c, don't remember.

d) Not impressed by the dealer. Any authorized dealer should give you the options free, it's a Rigol promotion, not specific to the dealer.

I'm in the US anyway, and you would need a local dealer unless you're gonna be ordering from a US dealer?

To give you an idea why I'm not impressed, Tequipment (the dealer) shipped the Rigol to me in the Rigol product box by itself. Naturally, UPS damaged the box (assuming it wasn't already damaged). When I returned it, the dealer (obviously) wanted me to return it double-boxed (as it should have been in the first place). I'm still waiting for my refund. So, no, I don't recommend them.

By contrast, I ordered my Siglent from CircuitSpecialists. They shipped the Siglent double-boxed in the first place, and neither box was damaged. They were very friendly and helpful on the phone, and included a cheapo DMM for free. It was a much better experience.
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #336 on: September 03, 2018, 06:04:12 pm »
@bhishmar: The DS1054Z hacks still work, even on the latest hardware, using either the front panel or telnet. If you run into any issues, it's best to visit the BIG DS1054Z thread.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 06:10:33 pm by bitseeker »
I TEA.
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #337 on: September 03, 2018, 06:07:42 pm »
To give you an idea why I'm not impressed, Tequipment (the dealer) shipped the Rigol to me in the Rigol product box by itself. Naturally, UPS damaged the box (assuming it wasn't already damaged). When I returned it, the dealer (obviously) wanted me to return it double-boxed (as it should have been in the first place). I'm still waiting for my refund. So, no, I don't recommend them.

Well, that's no bueno.

Quote
By contrast, I ordered my Siglent from CircuitSpecialists. They shipped the Siglent double-boxed in the first place, and neither box was damaged. They were very friendly and helpful on the phone, and included a cheapo DMM for free. It was a much better experience.

Very nice. I got mine from Saelig. It was also double-boxed, but appeared to have been that way from Rigol (both boxes were Rigol-branded). Saelig opened it prior to shipping to add a promo carry bag.
I TEA.
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #338 on: September 03, 2018, 06:09:05 pm »
@KungFuJosh
I am planning to acquire the Rigol DS1054Z DSO.

Can u please provide the following details for the DS1054Z unit acquired by you?

1. Firmware Version Number
2. Board version number
3. Were you able to successfully unlock/upgrade to all the upgrade options using rigol-1.03d @ http://www.gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/    using option= "DSER" ?

4. Which method is used:  Telnet or front-panel buttons?

5. Did u detect any side effect (Self-Calibration ... etc ) after this upgrade?

There can be no problem with unlocking options on the DS1054Z, every hardware/firmware version is known to work.

Entering long codes with the front panel is very fiddly, Telnet is much easier. Apart from that, there's no difference.
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #339 on: September 03, 2018, 06:14:02 pm »
So, Josh, what's the story with your avatar? There's a resemblance to Chuck Norris there. ^-^
I TEA.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #340 on: September 03, 2018, 06:16:12 pm »
To give you an idea why I'm not impressed, Tequipment (the dealer) shipped the Rigol to me in the Rigol product box by itself. Naturally, UPS damaged the box (assuming it wasn't already damaged). When I returned it, the dealer (obviously) wanted me to return it double-boxed (as it should have been in the first place). I'm still waiting for my refund. So, no, I don't recommend them.

AFAIK: All Rigols come double-boxed from the factory. If you only had a single box then somebody must have RMA'd it before you.

I think the main point of double boxing is so that there's a second, clean box to send it out again after an RMA. The spare box just happens to be stored inside the first box.

UPS can pierce/rips a double box just as easily as a single box.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 06:18:11 pm by Fungus »
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #341 on: September 03, 2018, 06:19:29 pm »
Well, that's no bueno.

Tell me about it.


Quote
Very nice. I got mine from Saelig. It was also double-boxed, but appeared to have been that way from Rigol (both boxes were Rigol-branded). Saelig opened it prior to shipping to add a promo carry bag.

Saelig seems cool. I was going to get my Siglent from them originally, but they were out of stock.
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #342 on: September 03, 2018, 06:21:22 pm »
So, Josh, what's the story with your avatar? There's a resemblance to Chuck Norris there. ^-^

lol, my face was covered in icicles after using the snowblower on a windy evening a couple winters ago. My wife took the photo as soon as I came inside. I was probably grouchy because it was freezing, so there's the Chuck Norris resemblance. :-DD
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #343 on: September 03, 2018, 06:26:23 pm »
To give you an idea why I'm not impressed, Tequipment (the dealer) shipped the Rigol to me in the Rigol product box by itself. Naturally, UPS damaged the box (assuming it wasn't already damaged). When I returned it, the dealer (obviously) wanted me to return it double-boxed (as it should have been in the first place). I'm still waiting for my refund. So, no, I don't recommend them.

AFAIK: All Rigols come double-boxed from the factory. If you only had a single box then somebody must have RMA'd it before you.

I think the main point of double boxing is so that there's a second, clean box to send it out again after an RMA. The spare box just happens to be stored inside the first box.

UPS can pierce/rips a double box just as easily as a single box.

Double-boxing is to add protection. It should have space and some sort of packing material between the boxes, but even if it doesn't, two boxes are stronger than one. Anything to protect from UPS (pronounced "oops") is a good thing.

I like TE even less now that you mention that about them all supposed to be being double-boxed. I'll be avoiding them. If I don't have my refund in a couple days, I'll start a PayPal dispute.
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #344 on: September 03, 2018, 06:28:31 pm »
lol, my face was covered in icicles after using the snowblower on a windy evening a couple winters ago. My wife took the photo as soon as I came inside. I was probably grouchy because it was freezing, so there's the Chuck Norris resemblance. :-DD

Ah, OK. Here's how my brain computed it:

guy with mustache and beard + Kung Fu in screen name = Chuck Norris. :-DD

UPS (pronounced "oops")

I hadn't heard that one before. I like it!
I TEA.
 
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Offline bhishmar

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #345 on: September 03, 2018, 06:29:59 pm »
Thanks to all : KungFuJosh, bitseeker & Fungus.

As per KunFuJosh all official unlock options are currently provided free by Rigol itself.
The only remaining upgrade-option is 100 MHz BW, &  is un-official.

Is there any practical improvement in the unit BW by doing this unlock [DSEA], even with higher BW probes?
What are other's experiences with DS1504Z?
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #346 on: September 03, 2018, 06:34:54 pm »
Is there any practical improvement in the unit BW by doing this unlock [DSEA], even with higher BW probes?

Yes, the unlock makes the scope 100MHz BW instead of 50MHz. The BW of the probes doesn't really matter if the scope's front end has less.

Quote
What are other's experiences with DS1504Z?

There are many threads in the forum with others' experiences with the DS1054Z. It's best to peruse them as not every owner will be visiting this thread.
I TEA.
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #347 on: September 03, 2018, 06:42:13 pm »
Is there any practical improvement in the unit BW by doing this unlock [DSEA], even with higher BW probes?

Yes - double bandwidth!

(even with supplied probes)

What are other's experiences with DS1504Z?

It's a really good oscilloscope. Buy with confidence.
 
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Offline bhishmar

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #348 on: September 03, 2018, 06:52:10 pm »
@bitseeker @fungus
Your reply seems to indicate that,  the front end analog circuitry of DS1054Z (50MHz) Unit &  DS 1104z (100Mhz) Unit  are essentially the same, in terms of  frequency response characteristics,
& the only difference by doing this hack is probably simply configuring the input BW  (anti-aliasing) filter from 50MHz to 100 MHz.

Is the above statement correct?
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?
« Reply #349 on: September 03, 2018, 06:59:43 pm »
@bitseeker @fungus
Your reply seems to indicate that,  the front end analog circuitry of DS1054Z (50MHz) Unit &  DS 1104z (100Mhz) Unit  are essentially the same, in terms of  frequency response characteristics,
& the only difference by doing this hack is probably simply configuring the input BW  (anti-aliasing) filter from 50MHz to 100 MHz.

Is the above statement correct?

Yes.

All models are really 100MHz. The only difference is that the software switches an extra capacitor on the 50Mhz model.
 


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