Author Topic: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)  (Read 95966 times)

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Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #125 on: November 10, 2017, 02:20:56 pm »
If Siglent choose to rework or replace the mainboard it is in goodwill for their many existing customers.
Are you serious?  goodwill??????
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #126 on: November 10, 2017, 03:06:40 pm »
Are you serious?  goodwill??????
Maybe GoodWill-Instek, better known as GW-Instek  ;D
 

Offline josip

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #127 on: November 10, 2017, 06:11:36 pm »
Please inform us when you get the answer back from Batronix, I was just about to order the scope from them.

Same here.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #128 on: November 10, 2017, 09:53:11 pm »
I contacted my supplier, Batronix, and they told me that Siglent is releasing a new motherboard. It will take some time, so they are going to call me back when the situation is clearer.

This must be fixed by Siglent under warranty, any other suggestion would be ridiculous. It's a design/manufacturing error.
Strong words.

Sure it is not a good situation but I ask how does the unit not meet spec ?
It does and therefore is not a warranty issue.
Please don't pretend to be dumb.  :box:
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Diabolo

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #129 on: November 12, 2017, 12:57:17 am »
We have a resolution to this issue from the factory.

Please do not attempt these modifications unless you have all the tools and rework ability.
It involves adding one 4 pF 1206 (3216 in metric) 500V rated C0G (NP0) capacitor onto unpopulated pads in each channel's input stages and maybe a small adjustment of one or both of the input trimmers.

In a few days when I have the capacitors in hand, member Defpom has indicated he will do a vid for us of the whole procedure.
Please find attached the disassembly, rework and adjustment instructions from the team at Siglent.

Hello,
The Depform member is where with the modification of the 2 input stages of the SDS 1202X-E ?
It would be interesting to see the result of this modification with the capacitors of 3.9pf to allow us then to judge if the operation is ok.

Regards,
Diabolo
 

Offline trys

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #130 on: November 12, 2017, 07:33:24 pm »
I was at the time about to buy the Siglent SDS 1202X-E but after hearing of the composition issue, I decided against it.

It's a great shame as it appears in most other senses a great scope.

I hope you chaps and lasses can get them fixed.

Trys
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #131 on: November 12, 2017, 07:55:39 pm »
I contacted my supplier, Batronix, and they told me that Siglent is releasing a new motherboard. It will take some time, so they are going to call me back when the situation is clearer.

This must be fixed by Siglent under warranty, any other suggestion would be ridiculous. It's a design/manufacturing error.
Strong words.

Sure it is not a good situation but I ask how does the unit not meet spec ?
It does and therefore is not a warranty issue.
Please don't pretend to be dumb.  :box:
I've got a bit more time so I will explain why it doesn't meet the specs. In short: there isn't such a thing as DC!

Long story: An oscilloscope has two basic specifications: DC accuracy and -3dB bandwidth. DC accuracy is usually around 2%. However if you look at the -3dB bandwidth then the error suddenly is a factor 1/10^(-3/20)=1.41 (41%). Now if you say DC=0 Hz then it would be allowed to have an error of slightly less than 1.41 at 0.0001Hz to still meet the bandwidth spec. Needless to say that such an oscilloscope would be utterly useless because a 1kHz 5Vpp square wave could be shown as anything between 3.54Vpp and 7.05Vpp. In other words: the DC specs should extend to a significant portion of the bandwidth in order for an oscilloscope to be usefull.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #132 on: November 12, 2017, 08:21:18 pm »
I was at the time about to buy the Siglent SDS 1202X-E but after hearing of the composition issue, I decided against it.

It's a great shame as it appears in most other senses a great scope.

I hope you chaps and lasses can get them fixed.

Trys
I've postponed buying a DS1054Z because the SDS1204X-E was on the horizon. The SDS1202X-E obviously has its issues, but most scopes do when they first arrive. However, solving a problem by flat out denying it's a problem isn't what I'm looking for, and if that turns out the be the final answer, I'll pass on both units. Having huge support is what makes the DS1054Z attractive, even if it's the community providing the support.
 

Offline TheDefpom

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #133 on: November 12, 2017, 08:40:09 pm »
I would hardly say Siglent are denying there is an issue, they did after all publish a note on how to correct the issue.
Cheers Scott

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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #134 on: November 12, 2017, 08:43:22 pm »
I would hardly say Siglent are denying there is an issue, they did after all publish a note on how to correct the issue.
I guess it depends whether you would call a distributor part of Siglent.
 

Offline iainwhite

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #135 on: November 12, 2017, 09:13:12 pm »
Siglent are missing a trick here - they should leak out a story saying that the scope can be hacked to give extra resolution for free - then everyone would be scrambling to buy the caps and solder them in.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #136 on: November 12, 2017, 09:54:32 pm »
I would hardly say Siglent are denying there is an issue, they did after all publish a note on how to correct the issue.
I guess it depends whether you would call a distributor part of Siglent.
Then you need download it and see that it came from Siglent.
As mentioned earlier the document is based on production line verification of the fix.

It is the official rework guide.


A note to those that might be wondering.....All new units for the last couple of weeks production have had a HW change to correct the 10x probe input compensation issue.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline tek2232

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #137 on: November 13, 2017, 06:31:11 pm »
@ tautech , do you know from what serial number off. ?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 06:35:44 pm by tek2232 »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #138 on: November 13, 2017, 06:55:57 pm »
@ tautech , do you know from what serial number off. ?
Units with BB in the build code that is part of the full SN# are from HW revision to remedy the input compensation issue. At this time there has been ~3 weeks production since changes were made.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
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Offline Diabolo

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #139 on: November 13, 2017, 07:46:09 pm »
Hello,

Siglent publishes a note of modification material at the expense of the customer who must buy the parts and solder them with the bonus of the loss of the guarantee of 3 years, and hop basta!
It's mafia behavior, that!
And if tomorrow car manufacturers, or other products do the same, would you accept it?
Siglent must take back the material to bring it in line with the current production modified, because the old buyers have a poor device compared to the future production, thus of less value!
Fuck the customer is the motto of Siglent?

Siglent must provide gratis capacities 3,9pf and a guarantee band, it is a minimum, or take the old devices to modify them by respect for their buyers!

I do not agree and I invite ripped buyers to advertise Siglent on the Web!


Regards,
Diabolo
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 07:55:20 pm by Diabolo »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #140 on: November 13, 2017, 08:40:15 pm »
Snipped

Siglent must provide gratis capacities 3,9pf and a guarantee band, it is a minimum, or take the old devices to modify them by respect for their buyers!
Contact your supplier for a remedy that best suits you.
Personal rework might suit you or done by the service center.

You need to talk to them.

It is not possible for Siglent to mail caps to each and every buyer, instead good suppliers will have them on hand for rework and customer requests.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Diabolo

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #141 on: November 14, 2017, 01:41:26 am »
Hello,

For me it's not a problem to install these 2 capacitors 3.9pf on my SDS 1202X-E 4 months old.
----
But I think of other buyers "scammed" who will pay € 1.60 * 2 + € 20 shipping costs (or € 23.60) that add to the purchase price of the SDS 1202X-E to get the 2 capacities 3.9pf and lose their 3 year warranty to have a correct SDS 1202X-E!
Siglent knew how to sell its imperfect SDS1202X-E and cash the buyers' money, Siglent must assume its mistake to maintain the buyer's trust and respect.
If Siglent becomes the object of bad publicity on the WEB on the part of the buyers "scammed", Siglent will be punished and will only take it alone.

As for the spectrum analyzer that I planned to buy, it will not be a Siglent!
----
https://www.mouser.fr/Passive-Components/Capacitors/_/N-5g7r?P=1z0wpt7Z1yx4arcZ1z0spi1Z1yzmoty

Regards,
Diabolo
 

Offline TheDefpom

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #142 on: November 14, 2017, 02:09:01 am »
I don't believe "Scammed" is the right phrase, the scope is a new design, and as can happen there are some bugs to work out of the design which were picked up after initial sale.

My belief would be that Siglent would simply deal with any customers which are worried about the compensation issue with warranty support, Siglent have acknowledged the issue (some manufacturers wouldn't even do that), and I am sure that any dealers if approached by a customer with this issue would look after the customer and get the issue dealt with for them.

The "re-work info" was put out there I expect as a way of being helpful (possibly as a instruction for warranty work for service agents), I highly doubt that Siglent would actually expect anyone to do the work themselves, unless they actually want to !
Cheers Scott

Check out my Electronics & Repair, Mailbag, or Review Videos at https://www.youtube.com/TheDefpom
 

Offline Diabolo

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #143 on: November 14, 2017, 04:48:41 am »
Hello,

I have the capacitors on an order that must leave soon, I will do myself the soldering of 2 capacitors 3.9pf, it is not a problem.
In any case it is not a good point for Siglent to sell unfinished hardware or buggy on the hardware!
A software bug is fixed with updates, but not for a hardware bug that imposes constraints on the customers while leaving them thinking that they have bought a wrong product.
I would like to remind you that this compensation problem was discovered and revealed by a client (French) and not by Siglent. What are engineers and controllers doing at Siglent?

Thank you for your reply.

Regards,
Diabolo
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #144 on: November 14, 2017, 08:53:55 am »
Hi ,
Good news!
Siglent tell me that they will send me a new mainboard as soon as them will arrive in Hamburg (next month) .
They say that this will not affect the warranty of scope .
So it seem that they care about our problem !
 :-+
 
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Online eurofox

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #145 on: November 14, 2017, 12:36:46 pm »
Answer I got today:

Siglent offered to repair these scopes, currently they are waiting for new working motherboards.
They await these new boards in around 4 weeks, then we are able to send affected devices back to Siglent for service.

I'll forward your request to Siglent to get additional information from Siglent.

I think they handle this like any serious supplier should do.
eurofox
 

Offline Chris-G

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #146 on: November 14, 2017, 01:04:18 pm »
My supplier in the UK has just offered a fix by returning the unit for a motherboard change in a few weeks time (3 yr Warranty still valid).  All I need to do now is to get them to pay for the return carrier costs as per the UK's Sale of Goods Act!
 

Offline Diabolo

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #147 on: November 14, 2017, 08:26:04 pm »
Hello,

The Siglent site does not make an information note about the problem of compensation on SDS 1202X-E, how do buyers who do not consult the Eevblog forum?
How are buyers notified that they have purchased a defective unit?
How do customers buy a SDS 1202X-E outside of an authorized Siglent distributor?

If I understand, only buyers informed about this compensation problem can get a warranty upgrade, but for other buyers how does it work?

Siglent should put a reminder note on its, or its sites, so every SDS 1202X-E owner will be notified of the problem when he comes to a Siglent site to check for a firmware update, for example.

Distributors who have sold SDS 1202X-E may, and must contact their buyers since they have contact information for their customers.

Sorry for my English, I correct with a translator.

Regards,
Diabolo
 

Offline Chris-G

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #148 on: November 14, 2017, 09:23:00 pm »
Distributors who have sold SDS 1202X-E may, and must contact their buyers since they have contact information for their customers.
I totally agree with you that customers should be told about the problem and given an option to rectify if they so wish, however, my distributor in the UK didn't even know about the problem until I contacted him about it yesterday, and pointed him to this forum.  No doubt he's probably a bit miffed as well, as he will have been selling goods with a known fault.

What chance have we if Siglent aren't even telling their official distributors of the problem? 
 

Online eurofox

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Re: Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)
« Reply #149 on: November 15, 2017, 09:37:13 am »
Today I got another email:

Siglent currently offers two solutions:
It's a hardware issue.
It needs to solder a 4 pF/3.9 pF 1206 (3216 in metric) 500V C0G (NP0) capacitor to the front-end analog circuit.
We can only offer two resolutions now:
1. Directly send the capacitor to the customer for repairing and keep the warranty for them.
2. Send the device to our hamburg office to replace the mainboard.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 08:01:28 pm by eurofox »
eurofox
 


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