Siglent SDS1202X-E or Rigol DS1202Z-E

[tautech]

Only the bottom menus can be hidden as they don't show the more important RHS operational settings while the bottom settings show far less important info unless you're documenting screenshots or coming here seeking help where the more settings you can show is more helpful for us to give guidance.

I have the spec sheet and the manual for X-E and X-U and for the small increase in price the X-E is a no-brainer (US is about $100 difference and here in the UK it's £50). The manual shows the menu on/off but the operation isn't described. It makes perfect sense that it turns the menu at the bottom on/off and it's close to that area too.

I couldn't find anything to suggest that the X-U has less capable processing capability (it would have been nice to know that they didn't save a few cents on this) - I get it that the input is simplified and doesn't have a second sampling chip. At this price point sampling with two chips is cool. So pretty much sold on the idea of an X-E. I can see that the X-U will be an option if the budget was for 2 channels because it's a small increase to go to 4-channels.

I get that there is a hack for setting it at 200MHz BW, perhaps there are downsides to doing that? I read that the supplied probes rated at 100MHz are actually quite good ones, so no need to rush to replace them even with the hack (I was nervous about doing it but if it's reversible, why not?).

Simon

Simon, you have a good handle on specs and capabilities and certainly with X-U pricing little more than the 2ch 200 MHz SDS1202X-E it's a no brainer to get the 4ch X-U if the additional BW is not required. But the SDS1104X-E is a better spec'ed and more capable scope.

I feel the X-U capabilities are only throttled back rather than a result of lesser HW although the likes of the missing webserver, Bode plot and lesser FFT specs matter to some however they are another $100 for the 4ch X-E but you also get the additional ADC and its additional 7 14 Mpts of mem support.

When using either there is no noticeable difference in performance for general scope use. One only needs to watch the sampling rate when all channels are active in a X-U at higher frequencies to keep an eye out for aliasing.

[bdunham7]

although the likes of the missing webserver, Bode plot and lesser FFT specs matter to some however they are another $100 for the 4ch X-E but you also get the additional ADC and its additional 7 14 Mpts of mem support.

To me that's all definitely worth $100 and are some of the best distinguishing features for Siglent.  A first-time user may not notice for while, but those are all pretty handy if you think about them.  For example, USB WiFi + webserver = way to safely float scope! 

[kcbrown]

If you totally overlook the fact that it has an isolated output with a ±42 Vpk isolation rating.
Please do show us a similar device for similar cost.

That's isolation with respect to earth ground, right?

The UTG962 would qualify since it's driven by a wall wart (and thus can be driven by a battery for as much isolation as you want), but since it can't be used with the Bode plot function of the SDS-1104X-E, it doesn't count.

So this is a fair point.

[tautech]

If you totally overlook the fact that it has an isolated output with a ±42 Vpk isolation rating.
Please do show us a similar device for similar cost.

That's isolation with respect to earth ground, right?

The UTG962 would qualify since it's driven by a wall wart (and thus can be driven by a battery for as much isolation as you want), but since it can't be used with the Bode plot function of the SDS-1104X-E, it doesn't count.

So this is a fair point.

Correct.

Now that the isolated SDG5000 series is withdrawn SAG1021I is the only isolated AWG Siglent produce until they release the SDG7000A however they will certainly not be a widely affordable priced instrument like SAG1021I is.

[QuitButton]

This thread has drifted somewhat from its title..

Siglent SDS1202X-E or Rigol DS1202Z-E

So, back to the original question. Am I correct in assuming [as its near impossible to find the answer simply] that the Siglent SDS1202X-E IS the 'same' as the SDS1104X-E, just its 200Mhz and 2 channels? Is the rest the same hardware and software? Does the 2 channel version miss any of the software features?

Likewise with the DS1202Z-E vs DS1054Z - same basic hardware ?

Oh, and whoever designed the website at https://siglent.co.uk/ needs to realise web design has moved on since 1997 and MySpace. 

[tautech]

So, back to the original question. Am I correct in assuming [as its near impossible to find the answer simply] that the Siglent SDS1202X-E IS the 'same' as the SDS1104X-E, just its 200Mhz and 2 channels? Is the rest the same hardware and software? Does the 2 channel version miss any of the software features?

Several.
See here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/best-digital-oscilloscope-under-$400usd/msg3587737/#msg3587737

[QuitButton]

Thants.

Please kick whoever thought of your model numbers/suffix.   

[TheBay]

No the SDS1202X-E is not the same as the SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E, below are some of the differences.

Single ADC so no Dual 1GSa\s (It is 500+500)
No support for the optional AWG or DSO
No Bode plotting
No Browser control

This thread has drifted somewhat from its title..

Siglent SDS1202X-E or Rigol DS1202Z-E

So, back to the original question. Am I correct in assuming [as its near impossible to find the answer simply] that the Siglent SDS1202X-E IS the 'same' as the SDS1104X-E, just its 200Mhz and 2 channels? Is the rest the same hardware and software? Does the 2 channel version miss any of the software features?

Likewise with the DS1202Z-E vs DS1054Z - same basic hardware ?

Oh, and whoever designed the website at https://siglent.co.uk/ needs to realise web design has moved on since 1997 and MySpace. 

[QuitButton]

No the SDS1202X-E is not the same as the SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E, below are some of the differences.

Single ADC so no Dual 1GSa\s (It is 500+500)
No support for the optional AWG or DSO
No Bode plotting
No Browser control

I'm sitting here thinking if I would ever need Browser control, or Bode plotting. I assume to Bode plot you need the optional AWG?

[My daughter has just commented "can't you hack the SDS1202X up to a SDS1104X" - Bless her  ]

[TheBay]

No the SDS1202X-E is not the same as the SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E, below are some of the differences.

Single ADC so no Dual 1GSa\s (It is 500+500)
No support for the optional AWG or DSO
No Bode plotting
No Browser control

I'm sitting here thinking if I would ever need Browser control, or Bode plotting. I assume to Bode plot you need the optional AWG?

[My daughter has just commented "can't you hack the SDS1202X up to a SDS1104X" - Bless her  ]

You need an either the optional AWG or a supported Siglent standalone AWG. (There are work arounds with other brands of AWG, but hardly plug and play)
If you don't need browser control (Useful if you have a DUT and want to monitor it from another room) or bode plotting
then ask yourself would you like 2 ADC's for dual channel 1GSa\s and also would 4 channels be useful?

[QuitButton]

Single ADC so no Dual 1GSa\s (It is 500+500)
No support for the optional AWG or DSO
No Bode plotting
No Browser control

So its more like a 2 channel SDS1104X-U.

[tautech]

Single ADC so no Dual 1GSa\s (It is 500+500)
No support for the optional AWG or DSO
No Bode plotting
No Browser control

So its more like a 2 channel SDS1104X-U.

Yes.
Except for SDS1202X-E has higher sensitivity and better FFT.

The X-E range appeared after the SDS1kX range that had 8" displays and 50 Ohm capable inputs however they didn't have the Xilinx processor that has taken over in all these cheap scopes and permitted snappy operation and additional functionality and improved UI's.
SDS1202X-E led this development and SDS1104/1204X-E, SDS2202/2352X-E and SDS1104X-U followed.

The SDS1002X-E range was to be released to the west in several different BW's however when Dave got a prerelease SDS1102X-E and showed how to hack it to what we now know as SDS1202X-E Siglent withheld all other models and only released SDS1202X-E to the west.

[SimonM]

Simon, you have a good handle on specs and capabilities and certainly with X-U pricing little more than the 2ch 200 MHz SDS1202X-E it's a no-brainer to get the 4ch X-U if the additional BW is not required. But the SDS1104X-E has better specs and is a more capable scope.

I finished my "homework" for the weekend - reading through the entire SDS1000X-E/U manual. Today (Monday) I opted for the SDS1104X-E and it should be arriving tomorrow.

Update

Arrived as expected yesterday (Tuesday). I had a brief "play" and I think they have done a good job with the SDS1000X-E series scopes. It has a fan that is always on which keeps the scope cool and you can tell by the exhaust temperature that it's required. It weighs (without leads/probes) over 2.4Kg, so that's almost 1.8Kg more than a Hantek - this surprised me. Good as it is to get "stuck in" with the manual, it will require more reading, for sure.

Hantek RIP (02.06.2021 - 16.06.2021)

Today (Wednesday) my Hantek DSO2D15 was posted back to Amazon UK. I also sent the 250MHz Hantek probe I ordered separately (because Hantek only provides one probe) back. Amazon notified me that both refunds should be with me in a few days (not going to be out of pocket). As they say (and Jack Yellon wrote), "Happy days are here again!"

Simon

[premek_k]

Hi everybody, this is my experience for anybody, who's making decision as I did few days ago:

I chose Siglent and sent it back after few days. Now I'm waiting for Rigol (DS2202 in my case).

I'm not sure, if Siglent I got was broken or not, but my piece had big vertical offset below 10mV scale on both channels and self calibration didn't fix it. In additions, it changed every time I switched a device on, independently I had quick calibration in menu set to on or off.

Secondly, device acted as transmitter - I'm working on RF stuff primarily and when I switched Siglent on, all receiver band was disturbed. It went even worse, when I connected a probe - even layed on table only.

FFT mode - as a one of reasons I choose this mark - had some problem too. There was permanent peak on low frequencies even I had input shorted.

And there was more small things that made me disappointed.

I have old second hand Rigol oscilloscope for many years and there's no problems like this. I hope, that new Rigol will be at least same quality - not like this Siglent toy.

[2N3055]

Hi everybody, this is my experience for anybody, who's making decision as I did few days ago:

I chose Siglent and sent it back after few days. Now I'm waiting for Rigol (DS2202 in my case).

I'm not sure, if Siglent I got was broken or not, but my piece had big vertical offset below 10mV scale on both channels and self calibration didn't fix it. In additions, it changed every time I switched a device on, independently I had quick calibration in menu set to on or off.

Secondly, device acted as transmitter - I'm working on RF stuff primarily and when I switched Siglent on, all receiver band was disturbed. It went even worse, when I connected a probe - even layed on table only.

FFT mode - as a one of reasons I choose this mark - had some problem too. There was permanent peak on low frequencies even I had input shorted.

And there was more small things that made me disappointed.

I have old second hand Rigol oscilloscope for many years and there's no problems like this. I hope, that new Rigol will be at least same quality - not like this Siglent toy.

That is a bit of funny story....
If any scope has "toy" implementation of FFT that is older Rigols. They are good entry level scopes but FFT is not well made on those.

What Siglent scope? What model?
What was the offset, in numbers? At which V/div?
Those are important pieces of information...

FFT peak on low frequencies..... That is you, not understanding how FFT works. Sorry.
Frequency of 0 Hz in FFT is representing any DC component (DC offset) in signal. Including DC offset from signal not being fully symmetrical and scope offset. And if you plot FFT in vertical log scale (dBV, dBuV, dBm) it will be visible.
For instance if you feed the scope squarewave that is not symmetrical (say 10% duty cycle) that one will have large DC component. You will see that

So please let us know which exact model of Siglent that was, and also if it was new. If it was new and offset was really bad, you should have sent it back for replacement. If it was used it might have been damaged.
If offset was really bad, you could have seen that in FFT too...

Also, I hope you didn't buy old  Rigol DS2202 but current model Rigol DS2202A.  That is a decent scope.
FFT will still be much worse Than Siglent has.

[premek_k]

What Siglent scope? What model?

Exactly like in the topic, Siglent SDS1202X-E. Brand new.

What was the offset, in numbers? At which V/div?

Ofset usually started on 10mV range and differed every time i made a calibration or even restart a device. In best cases it was about 3 divs on 0.5mV range (about 1.5mV), in worse case  the curve was totally off screen (more than 2mV). On higher ranges it came better, up to 10mV range, when it was almost zero. Meaning DC offset, of course. How I wrote, an old Rigol scope I have has no DC offset on any range, I assumed this behaviour here too. 

FFT peak on low frequencies..... That is you, not understanding how FFT works. Sorry.
Frequency of 0 Hz in FFT is representing any DC component (DC offset) in signal. Including DC offset from signal not being fully symmetrical and scope offset. And if you plot FFT in vertical log scale (dBV, dBuV, dBm) it will be visible.
For instance if you feed the scope squarewave that is not symmetrical (say 10% duty cycle) that one will have large DC component. You will see that

Roger that, but how I wrote, no signal was connected in these cases, I had a shorted inputs. In my opinion, it accidentally showed some kind of parazital DC offset of the scope.

Also, I hope you didn't buy old  Rigol DS2202 but current model Rigol DS2202A.  That is a decent scope.
FFT will still be much worse Than Siglent has.

Yes, I choose DS2202A. I know, that FFT isn't great, but in fact, firstly I choose a Siglent hoping to save some money on buying a spectrum analyzer.

[2N3055]

What Siglent scope? What model?

Exactly like in the topic, Siglent SDS1202X-E. Brand new.

What was the offset, in numbers? At which V/div?

Ofset usually started on 10mV range and differed every time i made a calibration or even restart a device. In best cases it was about 3 divs on 0.5mV range (about 1.5mV), in worse case  the curve was totally off screen (more than 2mV). On higher ranges it came better, up to 10mV range, when it was almost zero. Meaning DC offset, of course. How I wrote, an old Rigol scope I have has no DC offset on any range, I assumed this behaviour here too. 

FFT peak on low frequencies..... That is you, not understanding how FFT works. Sorry.
Frequency of 0 Hz in FFT is representing any DC component (DC offset) in signal. Including DC offset from signal not being fully symmetrical and scope offset. And if you plot FFT in vertical log scale (dBV, dBuV, dBm) it will be visible.
For instance if you feed the scope squarewave that is not symmetrical (say 10% duty cycle) that one will have large DC component. You will see that

Roger that, but how I wrote, no signal was connected in these cases, I had a shorted inputs. In my opinion, it accidentally showed some kind of parazital DC offset of the scope.

Also, I hope you didn't buy old  Rigol DS2202 but current model Rigol DS2202A.  That is a decent scope.
FFT will still be much worse Than Siglent has.

Yes, I choose DS2202A. I know, that FFT isn't great, but in fact, firstly I choose a Siglent hoping to save some money on buying a spectrum analyzer.

Thank you for the answers.
You should have returned that scope for replacement. What you saw was some kind of defect.
These scopes don't do that.
That weird DC offset would definitely show on FFT as DC component, and with log vertical axis would be very visible. That explains that.

As I said, DS2000A are decent little scopes. FFT is not very good, but as long you're fully aware and good with that....

As for FFT on ANY scope replacing full SA, it's not gonna happen soon. SA have vastly better dynamic and frequency range and many specialized functions (line noise markers, for instance and all kinds of specialized measurements) that simply cannot be replaced with just scope with FFT. FFT on a scope can be useful in addition to SA, to cover lower frequencies SA won't cover and to do time/frequency domain correlation....

[premek_k]

Thank you, 2N3055, for yours reactions.

To close this discussion - I'm almost sure, that my piece was broken. But scope came with calibration certificate, someone made a checks. I consulted this wierd things with local dealer and he assured me, that this behavior is not fault. I simply lost confidence in this brand. Generally I am conservative in this regard, I made exception in this case and it didn't turn out well.

I realize, that scope FFT can't replace real SA functionality, I use it mostly only for quick look and I was expecting something more from Siglent, but it didn't offer me even a standard.

In fact, I'm afraid Rigol won't disappoint me either... 

[2N3055]

Thank you, 2N3055, for yours reactions.

To close this discussion - I'm almost sure, that my piece was broken. But scope came with calibration certificate, someone made a checks. I consulted this wierd things with local dealer and he assured me, that this behavior is not fault. I simply lost confidence in this brand. Generally I am conservative in this regard, I made exception in this case and it didn't turn out well.

I realize, that scope FFT can't replace real SA functionality, I use it mostly only for quick look and I was expecting something more from Siglent, but it didn't offer me even a standard.

In fact, I'm afraid Rigol won't disappoint me either... 

If I were you I would loose more confidence in local dealer than manufacturer, if manufacturer didn't get a chance to do the right thing.
Scope could have been damaged in transport or whatever...

I hope you'll be happy with your choice.. DS2000A are actually scopes one step up from Rigol DS1202Z-E OP mentions. They have 2 GSa/s converter, and go up to 350 MHz, and have 56 Mpts of acquisition memory.

Siglent model that goes against it is Siglent SDS2202X-E, and has few more protocols, color grading  display and few more differences.

[dec123ua]

Model                         RIGOL DS1202Z-E                                                             SIGLENT SDS1202X-E
Price                                   Euro 339 + VAT                                                                           Euro 339 + VAT
Bandwidth                           200MHz                                                                                   200MHz
Channels                           2                                                                                           2
Sampling rate                   1GSa/sec                                                                                   1GSa/sec
Memory                           24Mpts                                                                                   14Mpts
waveform capture rate   30.000wfs/s                                                                           100.000wfs/s
Timebase Scale                   2ns/div - 50s/div                                                                   1ns/div - 100s/div
Decoding type                   Parallel, RS232/UART, I2C, SPI                                                   I2C, SPI, UART, RS232, CAN, LIN
Display                           7" 800x480                                                                           7" 800x480