Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 607499 times)

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Offline ewaller

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1150 on: December 27, 2018, 09:33:19 pm »
I only have Windows available at the moment, so I can't try formatting through linux. Sorry!  It is an 8GB drive formatted as Fat32.

I've tried inserting the usb stick while the scope was powered off, and also while it was on and then rebooting it.  Same result either way for the OS not installing.  The firmware installed fine through the normal Utility menu on the scope.

OK. Linux formatting would be a "remote" possibility.

My last suggestion is:

Format the stick with FAT. Ensure that the scope recognizes the stick and save some files (captures) from the scope to the stick.

Then, power off the scope, remove the stick and copy the 4 files to the stick as the manual says (don't remove the captures).

Ensure that you are doing clean ejections from Win.

Insert in the scope and power on.

Also, check with some hash prog that the files you have in the stick have the correct hash (crc32 is enough).

I may have found a clue as to why some USB configurations work and why others do not.  It turns out, it is possible to format an entire USB drive as a file system without requiring that it be partitioned -- much like floppy disks of old.  It is also possible to partition a USB thumb drive like a hard disk such that there are multiple partitions, each of which has an independent file system.  In Linux, a USB drive will show up as a device node in /dev.  On this scope, the first thumbdrive shows up as /dev/sda.  If the thumbdrive is partitioned and has one partition on it, there will be an additional device node called /dev/sda1.  The sda refers to the entire drive, the sda1 refers to the first partition.  (If there are more partitions, they also create device nodes sda2, sda3 ...)  A second thumb drive will enumerate at /dev/sdb.

What I found is that the scope GUI does not care whether the drive is a stand alone file system or whether it is is partitioned.  BUT... The preboot environment (I think it is U-Boot, but I cannot prove it) does not seem to deal well with thumbdrives that are not partitioned and ignores updates on drives that do not have a partition table.

So, if you have a thumbdrive that does not seem to work for upgrading the OS to 7.1 (or for installing the OS with a known password),  reformat it in Linux starting with fdisk or gdisk to create a partition table and then create a single volume (partition) that uses the remainder of the drive.  Then, format that volume (partition) using mkfs.vfat.  Mount that volume and unzip your four files to it.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1151 on: December 27, 2018, 11:19:35 pm »
USB drives are only troublesome when they are 16G size or not FAT formatted.
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Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline tinhead

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1152 on: December 28, 2018, 12:08:47 am »
USB drives are only troublesome when they are 16G size or not FAT formatted.

that's true, however for some reason Win 10 10.0.17763.195 is giving some extra problems when using UI to format.
What always work:

diskpart
list disk
select disk x
clean
format fs=fat32 quick
exit

and sometimes add drive letter in device manager (after re-attaching usb drive).
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1153 on: December 28, 2018, 01:03:22 am »
Few more Typo's in the SCPI stuff, most of its easy to patch out, but when its missing the string... well it gets interesting to make it all fit.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 02:32:40 pm by Rerouter »
 

Offline rickwookie

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1154 on: December 28, 2018, 02:00:35 pm »


Quote from: tv84 on December 15, 2018, 09:48:02 am


>Quote from: plurn on December 15, 2018, 03:53:14 am
I purchased a SDS1104X-E in November in Australia and it has the following:

software version: 8.0.6.1.26
fpga version: 2018-07-26
hardware version: 01-03



Interesting...  ::)

Can you send me a copy of the .app file?



Finally got my SDS 1104X-E today in the UK that I ordered back in November.

It's got the same version, except the hardware version is listed as 01-04. I wonder what that means.
 

Offline tinhead

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1155 on: December 28, 2018, 03:06:22 pm »
It's got the same version, except the hardware version is listed as 01-04. I wonder what that means.

that's easy, just open it, shot some pictures and we will find out the difference ^^.
FPGA and App versions are "same", however if might be difference there as well, if you could make copy of them we can easily check it.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 03:09:40 pm by tinhead »
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
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Offline jazper

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1156 on: December 28, 2018, 09:11:51 pm »
as an aside, I ordered and received mine in the last month - it has hardware version 1-03
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1157 on: December 28, 2018, 09:38:53 pm »
Just a small update, a few more new commands for .26

C:TRAV  C:TRAce_Visible     Used to show or hide traces
MEGS - MEasure_Gate_Switch turns on or off the measurement gating function
MEGA - MEasure_GateA Gate A position
MEGB - MEasure_GateB Gate B position
PNGDP                          Dumps a png formatted screenshot
 

Offline plurn

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1158 on: December 29, 2018, 10:37:12 pm »


Quote from: tv84 on December 15, 2018, 09:48:02 am


>Quote from: plurn on December 15, 2018, 03:53:14 am
I purchased a SDS1104X-E in November in Australia and it has the following:

software version: 8.0.6.1.26
fpga version: 2018-07-26
hardware version: 01-03



Interesting...  ::)

Can you send me a copy of the .app file?



Finally got my SDS 1104X-E today in the UK that I ordered back in November.

It's got the same version, except the hardware version is listed as 01-04. I wonder what that means.


I think it might be the Xilinx Zynq Platform hardware revision? I have "hardware version: 01-03" and Xilinx Zynq Platform 0003:

/ # cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
model name      : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS        : 1332.01
Features        : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant     : 0x3
CPU part        : 0xc09
CPU revision    : 0

processor       : 1
model name      : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS        : 1332.01
Features        : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant     : 0x3
CPU part        : 0xc09
CPU revision    : 0

Hardware        : Xilinx Zynq Platform
Revision        : 0003
Serial          : 0000000000000000
/ #


As for what having revision 0003 compared to some other revision means - I don't know.
 

Offline ewaller

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1159 on: December 29, 2018, 10:53:03 pm »
A hands up please of those using the Siglent WiFi adapter TL‐WN725N.
Some reports on your experiences and range with this USB adapter please.

Also please, reports from those using the genuine TP Link TL-WN725N dongle.
Using a genuine TL-WN725N works perfectly --

Code: [Select]
/ # for i in $(seq 1 10); do cat /proc/net/wireless   ; done
Inter-| sta-|   Quality        |   Discarded packets               | Missed | WE
 face | tus | link level noise |  nwid  crypt   frag  retry   misc | beacon | 22
 wlan0: 0000    0.   84.    0.       0      0      0      0      0        0
Inter-| sta-|   Quality        |   Discarded packets               | Missed | WE
 face | tus | link level noise |  nwid  crypt   frag  retry   misc | beacon | 22
 wlan0: 0000    0.   84.    0.       0      0      0      0      0        0
Inter-| sta-|   Quality        |   Discarded packets               | Missed | WE
 face | tus | link level noise |  nwid  crypt   frag  retry   misc | beacon | 22
 wlan0: 0000    0.   84.    0.       0      0      0      0      0        0
Inter-| sta-|   Quality        |   Discarded packets               | Missed | WE
 face | tus | link level noise |  nwid  crypt   frag  retry   misc | beacon | 22
 wlan0: 0000    0.   84.    0.       0      0      0      0      0        0
Inter-| sta-|   Quality        |   Discarded packets               | Missed | WE
 face | tus | link level noise |  nwid  crypt   frag  retry   misc | beacon | 22
 wlan0: 0000    0.   84.    0.       0      0      0      0      0        0
Inter-| sta-|   Quality        |   Discarded packets               | Missed | WE
 face | tus | link level noise |  nwid  crypt   frag  retry   misc | beacon | 22
 wlan0: 0000    0.   84.    0.       0      0      0      0      0        0
Inter-| sta-|   Quality        |   Discarded packets               | Missed | WE
 face | tus | link level noise |  nwid  crypt   frag  retry   misc | beacon | 22
 wlan0: 0000    0.   84.    0.       0      0      0      0      0        0
Inter-| sta-|   Quality        |   Discarded packets               | Missed | WE
 face | tus | link level noise |  nwid  crypt   frag  retry   misc | beacon | 22
 wlan0: 0000    0.   84.    0.       0      0      0      0      0        0
Inter-| sta-|   Quality        |   Discarded packets               | Missed | WE
 face | tus | link level noise |  nwid  crypt   frag  retry   misc | beacon | 22
 wlan0: 0000    0.   84.    0.       0      0      0      0      0        0
Inter-| sta-|   Quality        |   Discarded packets               | Missed | WE
 face | tus | link level noise |  nwid  crypt   frag  retry   misc | beacon | 22
 wlan0: 0000    0.   84.    0.       0      0      0      0      0        0
/ # ifconfig
lo        Link encap:Local Loopback 
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:65536  Metric:1
          RX packets:99 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:99 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:7108 (6.9 KiB)  TX bytes:7108 (6.9 KiB)

wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 50:3E:AA:83:BF:7A 
          inet addr:192.168.1.201  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:86778 errors:0 dropped:1468 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:316584 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:9375097 (8.9 MiB)  TX bytes:462780487 (441.3 MiB)

/ #
Single family dwelling, about 10m from router through 1 open door, a intervening room, and one interior wall.  Adapter is in the rear USB connector of the scope and is oriented with the body of the scope between the router and the adapter.

 Had serious issues with 7.0 Version of the OS.  Also, for some reason I had issues when running app version 6.1.25R2.

Now I am running 7.1.6.26 (stock firmware) and it is rock solid.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 10:55:17 pm by ewaller »
 
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Offline ewaller

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1160 on: December 29, 2018, 11:00:01 pm »
I think it might be the Xilinx Zynq Platform hardware revision? I have "hardware version: 01-03" and Xilinx Zynq Platform 0003:

/ # cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
model name      : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS        : 1332.01
Features        : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant     : 0x3
CPU part        : 0xc09
CPU revision    : 0

processor       : 1
model name      : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS        : 1332.01
Features        : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant     : 0x3
CPU part        : 0xc09
CPU revision    : 0

Hardware        : Xilinx Zynq Platform
Revision        : 0003
Serial          : 0000000000000000
/ #


As for what having revision 0003 compared to some other revision means - I don't know.
My proc/cpuinfo is identical to yours.  Purchased in the United States at the end of November
 

Offline rickwookie

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1161 on: December 29, 2018, 11:13:37 pm »


Quote from: tv84 on December 15, 2018, 09:48:02 am


>Quote from: plurn on December 15, 2018, 03:53:14 am
I purchased a SDS1104X-E in November in Australia and it has the following:

software version: 8.0.6.1.26
fpga version: 2018-07-26
hardware version: 01-03



Interesting...  ::)

Can you send me a copy of the .app file?



Finally got my SDS 1104X-E today in the UK that I ordered back in November.

It's got the same version, except the hardware version is listed as 01-04. I wonder what that means.


I think it might be the Xilinx Zynq Platform hardware revision? I have "hardware version: 01-03" and Xilinx Zynq Platform 0003:

/ # cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
model name      : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS        : 1332.01
Features        : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant     : 0x3
CPU part        : 0xc09
CPU revision    : 0

processor       : 1
model name      : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS        : 1332.01
Features        : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant     : 0x3
CPU part        : 0xc09
CPU revision    : 0

Hardware        : Xilinx Zynq Platform
Revision        : 0003
Serial          : 0000000000000000
/ #


As for what having revision 0003 compared to some other revision means - I don't know.

Nah. I have the same revision on hardware 01-04. I ran this SCPI command:
Code: [Select]
SHELLCMD cat /proc/cpuinfo > /usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0/cpuinfo.txtand in cpuinfo.txt I have:
Code: [Select]
processor : 0
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS : 1332.01
Features : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x3
CPU part : 0xc09
CPU revision : 0

processor : 1
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS : 1332.01
Features : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x3
CPU part : 0xc09
CPU revision : 0

Hardware : Xilinx Zynq Platform
Revision : 0003
Serial : 0000000000000000
 
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Offline tinhead

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1162 on: January 01, 2019, 12:40:42 pm »
@rickwookie (thanks for your effort) made nanddumps from his SDS 8.1.x hw 1.4, so i was able to compare the differences to my SDS 8.1.x hw 1.3. All mtd partitions are exact the same, except 3

mtd6 -> /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
mtd7 -> /usr/bin/siglent/
mtd8 -> /usr/bin/siglent/usr

These has been compared as well, the only differences i found are device specific -> S/N, license files (txt and bin of course), calibration data.
The only left different files are build_id_setting.xml (which contains build_id) and pro_filter_cfg.bin

That means changes between 1.3 and 1.4 are really on hardware level and written into config flash/eeprom.
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1163 on: January 01, 2019, 01:01:24 pm »
so for both the fpga bit file was the same? If so then great, means it should be usable for the 7. aswell,
 

Offline tinhead

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1164 on: January 01, 2019, 02:31:39 pm »
so for both the fpga bit file was the same? If so then great, means it should be usable for the 7. as well

exact, everything is binary same, except device specific config/cal files, and these two mentioned above which i have no idea what they are for.
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1165 on: January 01, 2019, 10:24:26 pm »
Pro filter is read in, but cant yet see how its used, It is however sitting right next to some strings relating to device bandwidth,

Its defiantly not something that results in a .txt though, as all the other options show up strings in the application. (same file but .txt at the end)

but does relate to the acquisition, as there is an internal variable name "acq_pro_bwl_filter_set", and another "app_pro_bw_if_license_match_bw" that seems to hint at its function

There are also some hidden UI menus relating to "FILTER" but don't know if its related.
 

Offline rf-loopTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1166 on: January 06, 2019, 01:04:00 pm »
Is it bit better to keep hack and mod things in separate place. Now these are mixewd here and there and everywhere and it is quite difficult specially for new peoples find information for mod-hack related things.
Example here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/
-----------


Back to topic and oscilloscope features and performance etc.

Here something about serial decode with I2C and use of history buffer or Sequence mode as in this example. (but for "offline" decode they work same.
It was also some time ago some people messed with serial trigger and serial decode until I tell him that serial decode do not care anything what trigger there is in use, or even if untrigged. As long as there is waveform in memory what can decode it can do it, even if scope is in Run mode or Stop. How ever this serial communication waveform data is there in memory captured with enough resolution for decode it can decode. Also it use always full current memory length. (current memory length is not always this length what user have selected as maximum length in acquisition menu. But in main window and when scope is running , displayed trace length  is always same as current memory length. Also full memory data is always used for decode and automatic measurements.

In this example there is used only one decoder and protocol is I2C.
There is two tiny microcontrollers talking with each others as other part (master) commands.
Because this is artifical example this talking is just two fixed messages repeating around 20ms interval.
Master send 32byte message to slave and also request 32 byte from slave who have its own message to master.
Oscilloscope is connected to this bus and need capture every message what there exist and as many as can.
For this I have selected Sequence mode. Because normal mode history buffer may have some extra blind times and some message perhaps dropped out.  Sequence mode do not update display or loose time for other things so it can easy save every message without drop outs.

Of course there is also other method, for this case, if 1000 sequential msg decode is enough.
Then in this case can select 7M memory and very slow timebase. So that 1000 messages can be inside this one memory length. (with 100kb/s I2C it is easy) In this case whole 1000 msg can decode at once and one decode list can contain them all and this result can also save as .csv data to USB. (I have tested it using 32byte message lengths's)

But here this Sequence - and decode example. Images explanations text are included inside images.

Picked up from some preliminary instructional material.

Equipments used for this example:
SDS1104X-E
Arduino Mega2560 (Master)
Arduino Leonardo (Slave)

story as Classroom Slideshow:


































SDS00004_Decode.csv  (from OpenOffice Calc display)


« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 03:22:53 pm by rf-loop »
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Offline rf-loopTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1167 on: January 06, 2019, 01:05:34 pm »
As told in previous message example,  of course instead of normal history buffer or sequence acquisition, bus signal can of course capture using single long memory length and decode whole memory length. Depending of bus there can be lot of messages in one acquisition and of course this can decode at once.
But, also this is bad mode if there is long gap between short messages and we want decode lot of sequential messages. Then history buffer or sequence acq. come very handy. Also if we want select only some special messages from bus, example messages only between master and one slave address. (this need also Serial trigger)

Most oscilloscopes do not even have history buffer and also many times segmented memory acquisition is very limited or even impossible to use for decode.

For I2C (IIC, TWI) there is two independent decoders what works simultaneously.  Decoder S1 and S2.

Both decoders maximum amount of messages is 1000. (tested using 1 - 32 byte message length, with all these amount of message bytes count of messages max is 1000).
(example for UART, limit is different, it is 3000 bytes for every simultaneously decoded signal (max 4))

Equipments used for this example:
SDS1104X-E

Decoder 1
Arduino Mega2560 1 (Master)
Arduino Leonardo 1 (Slave 7)
Decoder 2
Arduino Mega2560 2 (Master)
Arduino Leonardo 2 (Slave 8)

Both master-slave pairs run fully independent (only power supply is same for all 4 duino's)

Here in this example Decoder 1 (Bus 1 between masterA and slave 7) message interval is longer than Decoder 2 (Bus 2 between master B and slave 8 ) So decoder 2 maximum limit is reached around half of memory length and Decoder 1 limit is reached nearly end of memory length. (set just for demonstrate this). After decoder limit is reached, it just leave rest of trace undecoded.

Decode list include always whole one decoder decoding result.  List can save to USB using .csv format.
(in this case it have 32000 bytes messages data (1000 x 32byte message)
Time column in list is related to trigger time position.

Also in other image, there  is used window zoom. Independent of this, it decode whole memory until memory end or max count of messages reached. In this image decode list is Decoder 2 list.
I hope some day Siglent add information to list what decoder is selected. Because if bottom menu have other than just List menu then there is no indicator what decoder is selected for list display.
Also some other small improvements are in wish list. Example that if user have selected "fixed position" instead of "fixed delay" for trigger position display. Then delay (imho) is better to display from display position and not from center of display.







later some add edit...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 04:22:31 pm by rf-loop »
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Offline Chuki

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1168 on: January 06, 2019, 08:36:17 pm »
Thanks for the practical examples helping novices how to work with Acq.ON more (Sequential).
That was the thing I was trying to figure out this week by it was not intuitive and the manual didn't help from the first try.

Could somebody advice on how use 1204/1104xe for tracing a problem witch require ideally "data logging" of 2 hours the turn marker of 200-1500 RPM rotating shaft.
I am able to check with a scope that in ideal conditions turn marker only one pulse per turn. But equipment tends to give not systematic failures over 1-2 hours of work cycle.
There is the idea that either some voltage fluctuations at line \ ground or vibrations (or both) make false/absent rotation pulses. 

Ideally, I need to get 1-2 hours triggers on all pulses and save that data to compare with a time of equipment errors in the final image (equipment is drum scanner and faults to trace are "dead" lines of pixels in the final scan that appear not always and so still are not identified by source).

I was reading in the manual for older Siglent scope model _CML about RECORD function where it is possible to write all untriggered screens with specified time intervals up to 2500. Could 1204xe make such a trick in some mode - it has much better memory than _CML scope model?

 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1169 on: January 07, 2019, 02:41:44 am »
Thanks for the practical examples helping novices how to work with Acq.ON more (Sequential).
That was the thing I was trying to figure out this week by it was not intuitive and the manual didn't help from the first try.

Could somebody advice on how use 1204/1104xe for tracing a problem witch require ideally "data logging" of 2 hours the turn marker of 200-1500 RPM rotating shaft.
I am able to check with a scope that in ideal conditions turn marker only one pulse per turn. But equipment tends to give not systematic failures over 1-2 hours of work cycle.
There is the idea that either some voltage fluctuations at line \ ground or vibrations (or both) make false/absent rotation pulses. 

Ideally, I need to get 1-2 hours triggers on all pulses and save that data to compare with a time of equipment errors in the final image (equipment is drum scanner and faults to trace are "dead" lines of pixels in the final scan that appear not always and so still are not identified by source).

I was reading in the manual for older Siglent scope model _CML about RECORD function where it is possible to write all untriggered screens with specified time intervals up to 2500. Could 1204xe make such a trick in some mode - it has much better memory than _CML scope model?
IMO with the additional channels you have it would be better to grab signals from various points and then use the array of different trigger types in conjunction with a Normal or Single trigger setting.
A slow timebase (not Roll) should be used and the trigger position left central.

When triggered (captured) you could have up to 28 Mpts of data internally saved for detailed inspection or to download as a bin or csv file for further analysis on another device.

This is where a DSO can shine providing you’re not stuck in a CRO mindset.
Good luck with your treasure hunt.  :)
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Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1170 on: January 07, 2019, 03:16:44 am »
Don't know about 28M of data?? Its only 14M to me per channel pair, with both pairs tied to the same trigger? unless I am really missing something,

At its longest timebase you can record at 100s / div, which with 14M memory selected still gives you 50uS spaced data points, plenty to see if a pulse occured at the expected time, and reasonable detail about the pulse, you would have to either come by and either store it to USB once every 23 minutes, or fire of a SCPI command to do the same. (if you want everything)

If you suspect its a missed pulse that would rule out a runt trigger, but if you suspect its below threshold it could work.

What I think may be better to your purposes would be the interval trigger, or dropout trigger, but the pain is the variable speed, if it was over a smaller range, have it normal trigger when its outside the timing margins and it will save up every instance it triggered until the memory is full (set to the lowest memory depth to get the maximum number of records)

Or if you can rig a sensor up for testing, a pattern trigger, may be a good way, so it triggers when your sensor triggers, but not the one in the drum, you can tweak the logic time and holdoff to suit.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 03:20:47 am by Rerouter »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1171 on: January 07, 2019, 03:27:32 am »
Don't know about 28M of data?? Its only 14M to me per channel pair, with both pairs tied to the same trigger? unless I am really missing something,
When monitoring all four channels at an appropriate time base = 28 Mpts of captured data.
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Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline rf-loopTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1172 on: January 07, 2019, 08:02:34 am »
Thanks for the practical examples helping novices how to work with Acq.ON more (Sequential).
That was the thing I was trying to figure out this week by it was not intuitive and the manual didn't help from the first try.

Could somebody advice on how use 1204/1104xe for tracing a problem witch require ideally "data logging" of 2 hours the turn marker of 200-1500 RPM rotating shaft.
I am able to check with a scope that in ideal conditions turn marker only one pulse per turn. But equipment tends to give not systematic failures over 1-2 hours of work cycle.
There is the idea that either some voltage fluctuations at line \ ground or vibrations (or both) make false/absent rotation pulses. 

Ideally, I need to get 1-2 hours triggers on all pulses and save that data to compare with a time of equipment errors in the final image (equipment is drum scanner and faults to trace are "dead" lines of pixels in the final scan that appear not always and so still are not identified by source).

I was reading in the manual for older Siglent scope model _CML about RECORD function where it is possible to write all untriggered screens with specified time intervals up to 2500. Could 1204xe make such a trick in some mode - it has much better memory than _CML scope model?

CML Record function is very extremely different what is in modern SDS1000X and X-E series.
CML records TFT frames, up to 2500 and with user settable interval. (There is also "Recorder" in CML but it have 6M memory and it can record low samplerates continuously up to 6Msamples, but it is so very long time I have used CML that it is better I do not try tell how it works.

SDS1000X-E
It can save up to 80000 trigged waveforms. (normal mode to wavefrom history buffere FIFO, woreking always in bacround. OR in special Sequence mode to this same history buffer. In sequence mode scope do not handle any other processes  what may  lead to loose some trigger event so it also do not display during this Sequence until whole sequence is ready)



Odd but still principle itself is valid.






Old but principle itself is still valid.







Next image show amount of history and sequence mode segment memory







How ever acquisition is made to history buffer (normal or sequence mode)
Every single acquisition (every single horizontal sweep) is time stamped. If there is 80000 or 2 acquistions in buffer every have time stamp (but there is not real time clock in system so time of clock is not true time but time between acquisitions is accurate)




(example of time list. User can select what segment (frame) he want look. Also it need note that this do not save image memory, it save ADC data and every segment (frame) is current memory length in use. This is why all can post process including interpolation and math and measurements, even run mask test.

----
But now your problem.
If you want only record time interval list when trigger have occured (scope have detected pulse) you can record 80000 time stamps.
Just set scope to trig this pulse. Set trigger so that it trig when pulse signal meet some your specified values.
For max count of events. Then set scope for 10ns/div and select sequence mode with max 80000 segments. Yes in this case waveform length is only 140ns. You can not see your pulse (perhaps part of rise edge or?) but every time it meet trigger, it make acquisition and write time stamp for it.

But, now, even with this if your speed is constant 1500rpm and one pulse per turn you get 80000 time stamps. 80000/1500=53,3 minute. With this speed, over this time you have time stamp (including time after last event aka interval) from every single trig. You can watch if there is missing trig (missing pulse as trigger setup have defined what us "pulse").
But not alone this. Other channel(s) can also be in use and also data from these is saved same time (example one may watch some point voltage etc)
But then, if you want also see your whole pulse there need use much more long length for one acquisition.
If think your max speed even with this 1500rpm  one turn is 40ms. I do not know anything what kind of sensor you have for pulses and how long is your pulse with minimum and maximum speed (200 - 1500rpm) perhaps we talk milliseconds.

This is only imagination. If think your pulse width 36th of turn (10 degree) then pulse width is roughly between 10ms to 1ms.
Ok, perhaps then 1ms/div is ok for look whole pulse.
If want look maximum amount of pulses what can record using normal history or sequence mode. If reduce memory length to 7k and t/div is 1ms and then sampling speed is 500kSa/s (samples interval 2us). Maximum amount is 3912 this kind of waveforms stored in memory (in 4 channel model 4 channel parallel)
with 1500rpm this is only 2.6 min. and 200rpm it is 19.5 min. (but of course time resolution is still good and lot of more than needed)


But this is not alone what can do. But this is not for your case.

Example. If want longest record, lowest samplerate and with some time gap between records
It can do (extreme limit) 5 sample per second
Limit memory length (acquisition length) to 7k
Set 100s/div3
Now one acquistion time lenght is 100s*14 = 1400 seconds 231/3min
and now it can also record 3912 of these, total 63 days long sum of data but total time more.  As told, between these 231/3min records there is gap. I have not checked now and I'm not sure if I remember right but gap is around one horizontal div so in this case ~100s gaps. So total time is even more than 63 days
Of course selecting optimal time base and optimal one acquisition length there can fid solution for many kind of needs, but of course not for all needs.


Old times I have been working in factory where we need always analyze and find some mysterious errors in lot of different machines and processes. Of course there we have analog and digital data recorders, scopes, spectrum analyzers and so on...  of course because if manufacturing stop due to some failure in machines it is hundreds or "sky is limit" times more expensive than some electronic test equipments. But still, in many cases. Because time is money and specially, "less time = save more money".
There was golden rule. Do it simply!  Do not waste time for finding this and that and for nice analyzators and scratching head how I use this for remove this problem in important machine.

One solution is that you install reliable extra detector one pulse per turn . (what ever even simplest but reliable, example some  proximity sensor) then trig scope with it and watch that with every this pulse appear also this pulse what you suspect. After you find more what happen there you can analyze just this situation where failure happen, example watching some drop outs etc.
With extra sensor you can even simple trig only when it fails.
Of course if your shaft speed is constant this is extremely easy just with normal trigger functions without any extra but your speed change between 200-1500rpm so this need some things what can "remove" this speed change affect. One is just extra sensor. Most easy if you have available it.

But then, do you like analyze it because analyzing something is so nice... or repair it now or better if yesterday....

Example about other kind of thinking. Of course this is trivial example and perhaps not at all for your case...  but some times we need break thinking some locked or circle paths in our brain and find other thinking paths for find solutions. Some times solutions are even extremely simple after it pops up.
Think example what happen there when one pulse pulse is missing. What it do in this case and can you use this information... you know digital scope is always doing pretrigger sampling until trigger... so you can easy get what happen before something has happened. If you can detect (failure) result then you can analyze what happen before...  just tip for change thinking method to reverse (cousin of this is negation test in thinking process)


For siglent there something in wish list.

100s/div is now slowest.

It can change to  1000s/div or even 10000s/div  (roll mode 100Sa/s and normal mode 1kSa/s)
This need only some bytes in FW. 
Some competitors have it.
There have been many times some questions about more long time data recording.

Even with these extra slow sample rates it can directly save continuous wfm to USB. There is now lot of processing power for it.

It was long long time ago even SDS1000CML can do it when very slow samplerate, directly to USB (I do not know when they have take it off)

Now there is processing power, SDS1kXE can easy do much more this kind of things. More slow t/div andf also direct unlimited length capture to USB if sample rate is enough slow. 
It is not only one people who need more long capture times or even like very long time data logger without time gaps.







« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 07:11:00 pm by rf-loop »
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 
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Offline rf-loopTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1173 on: January 07, 2019, 08:07:28 am »
Don't know about 28M of data?? Its only 14M to me per channel pair, with both pairs tied to the same trigger? unless I am really missing something,
When monitoring all four channels at an appropriate time base = 28 Mpts of captured data.

In 4 channel model even 109Mpts captured data (in history or sequence)  ;D
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1174 on: January 07, 2019, 09:14:51 am »
rf-loop, would you be willing to go into exactly what bytes need to be changed for the longer modes? I can only see 1000s for the upper and 200ps and 500ps unused for the lower, as strings in the app? while I'm curious about those lower time bases, I would love to know what the modification procedure is.
 


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