Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 150992 times)

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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #125 on: October 31, 2017, 07:55:24 pm »
some fun on a working day waiting for the SDS1204X-E, Happy Halloween!
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Offline Giuss

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #126 on: October 31, 2017, 11:05:03 pm »
Can't wait to see Dave's preview or review and also to know the price in EU
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #127 on: November 01, 2017, 03:13:57 am »
Siglent has removed the SDS1102X from the European stock and promo. This may show a possible overlap of pricing with the upcoming SDS1104X-E  :popcorn:
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #128 on: November 01, 2017, 04:53:21 am »
Siglent has removed the SDS1102X from the European stock and promo. This may show a possible overlap of pricing with the upcoming SDS1104X-E  :popcorn:

And what is your information source?

Siglent official  European web side:

http://siglenteu.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=3926&sid=210
As long as they keep this info in official web side I think it is valid. But, of course this may change sooner or later. Then we live with this new info.

Batronix. Also tell offer continue until Dec 31. As far as I know they have followed official Siglent EU GmbH information.

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1102X.html

I keep this information valid until I get official different information from Siglent.
Officially Siglent do not give public information about end date Dec 31. Only they tell: "Don’t wait - this deal won’t last long!"


If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #129 on: November 01, 2017, 04:58:38 am »
My info is confirmed by Siglent website. In fact the SDS1102X is not here anymore http://siglenteu.com/m/newsxq.aspx?id=3926
You will see this happening in all distributors website soon.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #130 on: November 01, 2017, 05:02:55 am »
My info is confirmed by Siglent website. In fact the SDS1102X is not here anymore http://siglenteu.com/m/newsxq.aspx?id=3926
You will see this happening in all distributors website soon.

I am distributor. ;)
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #131 on: November 01, 2017, 05:07:49 am »
Good  :D
You will see I’m not wrong  :-+
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #132 on: November 01, 2017, 06:22:15 am »
Good  :D
You will see I’m not wrong  :-+

Yes but current information at this time is as previously have been and is today.
After new official information free for public, then we give official information as it is. ;)
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #133 on: November 01, 2017, 07:25:33 pm »
Official information from Siglent.  1.11.2017
Siglent (Siglent Technologies Europe GmbH) do not stock SDS1102X model anymore.

------------------------------------------------

General storylines:
And this is NOT alone about just Siglent. There is many.

What I have never understood, not yesterday, not today and not tomorrow.
Change from 8" display to 7" displays. Even more bad now after SDS1000X-E series have also 4 channel models.
I understand it with price. But also can ask, why go to tight price competition with cheapest bottoms. Look for what ever equipment, from dmm to TV sets and bicycles. Who believe cheapest win and get best total profit.

Example I with my own eyes have very severe problems with 7" TFT in oscilloscope with very tiny text information on screen, looks like no one have designed it - only just drop out from slapdash hands something. After these boys and girls who design these things come to over 40, 50, 60... eyes adaptation to different distances change and also eyes accuracy other ways may decay.  Example here in Finland is lot of professionals and really lot of (proportionally to population) hobbyists who are over 50 years and I can easy find over 80 years electronics hobbyists who still are buying new modern equipments.  This is because here we have been deep inside electronics very long time. But these new things are designed  for youths with good well adaptive eyes etc. This is wrong road. All we know that around of world we have more and more older peoples who also do lot of things and activities after 60 and 70 years. They have hobbies, they are even working. But things are designed for more and more younger peoples. This is paradoxal phenomena. Who manufacturer understand this today he can win later. This is fact in many area of goods and things. Also money is there. China is bit different with these technical things because electronics development there is so so young. Ten years ago in China I ask where I can find electronics hobbyists. Peoples did not even understand what I askl. Today is different but there my mutual opinion is, hobbyists average age is far lower than here in western  countries.  This is what we also can see in chinese design.

Lets hope next economy price model is minimum 8" display or better if 10" and with full separate controls and good  designed and professionally finished UI. Starting from fonts and ending how encoders work and how keyboard feel and work and what are ergonomic positions of controls. This part of design need most high level knowledge and hard-core experience and knowledge about human psycho-physical "features and specifications".


« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 07:28:47 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #134 on: November 01, 2017, 09:32:33 pm »
This problem is long fixed with USB scopes / logic analyzers. Also newer standalone scopes often have webpage type interface that may work quite well. You have to be very oldschool or masochist doing something requiring lots of fine detail with these inbuilt postcards. Postcard-only scopes are for hobbyist feel-good and room decoration + simple tasks requiring good DPO performance - direct replacement for CRO.

 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #135 on: November 01, 2017, 09:38:07 pm »
Nice marketing statement to promote USB scope ...  :--
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Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #136 on: November 01, 2017, 09:49:13 pm »
This is reality. If eye strain is concern - large IPS monitor is basically only option. If you have watched Keysight interview with Dave it was also voiced that devices w/o physical inbuilt GUI are future.
I have lots of USB gear from various brands exactly for this reason - ultra portable & no eye strain. However they do have other drawbacks and in fact I will get some postcard device in future for specific tasks. Its all about picking right tool for the job.


 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #137 on: November 01, 2017, 09:52:09 pm »
I still like the romance of buttons and knobs ... but yes big large screens are nice and damn expensive!
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Offline Loboscope

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #138 on: November 01, 2017, 10:16:50 pm »
Also in bottom-line scopes it should be easy and not expensive to add an up-to-date HDMI or DVI- connection. Doing so would allow the user to add a simple and low-cost monitor if he wants or needs a bigger screen.  This would be a nice combination to maintain a small and bench-place saving scope and to have a bigger screen whenever it is needed.
It could be so simple and acceptable cheap.
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #139 on: November 01, 2017, 10:18:01 pm »
This problem is long fixed with USB scopes / logic analyzers. Also newer standalone scopes often have webpage type interface that may work quite well. You have to be very oldschool or masochist doing something requiring lots of fine detail with these inbuilt postcards. Postcard-only scopes are for hobbyist feel-good and room decoration + simple tasks requiring good DPO performance - direct replacement for CRO.

Personally I use only bunch of separate stand alone equipment's. And I want to use. Maybe I'm old school masochist. If so,  I'm proud of this experience and position. All do not have this possibility.

If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 
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Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #140 on: November 01, 2017, 10:32:30 pm »
Personally I use only bunch of separate stand alone equipment's. And I want to use. Maybe I'm old school masochist. If so,  I'm proud of this experience and position. All do not have this possibility.

Of course, for example I prefer cars with free breathing high rev boxer engine and manual gearbox. Also not all have this possibility. I'm quite proud to have this and also some experience driving formula cars including F1 and so on. However this is all very separate issue from what is efficient transportation and what future brings for us in general.

BTW here F1 of scopes - 100GSa/s realtime, notice screen size (just FYI postcard) and how it is actually used:

« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 10:47:42 pm by MrW0lf »
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #141 on: November 01, 2017, 10:33:08 pm »
Also in bottom-line scopes it should be easy and not expensive to add an up-to-date HDMI or DVI- connection. Doing so would allow the user to add a simple and low-cost monitor if he wants or needs a bigger screen.  This would be a nice combination to maintain a small and bench-place saving scope and to have a bigger screen whenever it is needed.
It could be so simple and acceptable cheap.
A huge screen isn't really helpful if it's a tiny resolution.
 
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Offline Hydron

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #142 on: November 01, 2017, 11:13:29 pm »
I find there are benefits and drawback to both the USB & Buttons/Knobs type of instrument. The latter is nicer to use when poking around a circuit trying to find a problem, the former has advantages using a big screen for analysis, as well as being much more portable (assuming you're already taking a laptop!).

What I do agree with is that the screen size/resolution of most stuff out there is a bit pathetic. Given the price you can buy a cheap 1080p+ tablet for, having a max of 7-8" @ 800*480 as standard for almost all test equipment in the hobbyist budget range is really poor (though some manufacturers are a bit stuck with existing ASICs I guess). Going from using a DS1054Z screen to a RTB2004 (with 10" 1280*800) was a huge usability upgrade, but the latter was only really "affordable" (still ~6 times the cost of the rigol) due to the extreme launch discount.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #143 on: November 01, 2017, 11:22:35 pm »
This is reality. If eye strain is concern - large IPS monitor is basically only option. If you have watched Keysight interview with Dave it was also voiced that devices w/o physical inbuilt GUI are future.
I have lots of USB gear from various brands exactly for this reason - ultra portable & no eye strain. However they do have other drawbacks and in fact I will get some postcard device in future for specific tasks. Its all about picking right tool for the job.
With touchscreen becoming the standard the 'traditional' equipment is likely to have less and less buttons. At some point you could have a USB analog frontend connected to a tablet and operate it from there. I don't like needing a PC to operate a scope because it is too cumbersome to deal with installing software.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #144 on: November 01, 2017, 11:27:33 pm »
nctnico this is a very good point. Back to the tread let see how the Siglent unit will handle the external signal generator.
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #145 on: November 01, 2017, 11:29:28 pm »
With touchscreen becoming the standard the 'traditional' equipment is likely to have less and less buttons. At some point you could have a USB analog frontend connected to a tablet and operate it from there. I don't like needing a PC to operate a scope because it is too cumbersome to deal with installing software.
A tablet doesn't need less effort to install things.

Besides, a physical interface is hard to replace. You can have all the touch screens in the world, reaching for a knob while looking at a circuit will always be easier when it's a physical knob. Touch screens inevitably require your visual attention.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #146 on: November 01, 2017, 11:46:10 pm »
reaching for a knob while looking at a circuit

::)

will always be easier when it's a physical knob. Touch screens inevitably require your visual attention.

Exactly - little knobbed device very good if all attention on poking circuit. Game changes if circuit/device just sitting there and all attention to analyzing comms or some delicate analog process. But here I do not get touchscreen at all. Mouse = microscopic wrist movements. Touchscreen = waving hands around. Not efficient. However touchscreen inevitable because new generation likes to touch. Main thing still to implement keyb/mouse support (secretly from marketing if needed) :P
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #147 on: November 01, 2017, 11:48:58 pm »
With touchscreen becoming the standard the 'traditional' equipment is likely to have less and less buttons. At some point you could have a USB analog frontend connected to a tablet and operate it from there. I don't like needing a PC to operate a scope because it is too cumbersome to deal with installing software.
A tablet doesn't need less effort to install things.

Besides, a physical interface is hard to replace. You can have all the touch screens in the world, reaching for a knob while looking at a circuit will always be easier when it's a physical knob. Touch screens inevitably require your visual attention.
Am I missing something here? On an oscilloscope you need to look at the screen anyway :o I dare to say that adjusting anything on an oscilloscope will be combined with looking at the screen.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #148 on: November 02, 2017, 04:41:04 am »
Am I missing something here? On an oscilloscope you need to look at the screen anyway :o I dare to say that adjusting anything on an oscilloscope will be combined with looking at the screen.
It would be convenient if you hands weren't in the way, then ;D

Obviously, some controls are very well suited for a touch screen, while others are much more suited for physical interface. There is a reason a Surface Pro still comes with physical keyboard and even a touch pad. Feedback can be vital for the ease of use.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #149 on: November 02, 2017, 05:56:04 am »
Back to the tread let see how the Siglent unit will handle the external signal generator.
Why ?
Both the SDS1*04X-E USB AWG option and stand-alone SDG's work fine for Bode plot usage. USB or LAN control for SDG's.
In Bode plot mode the scope UI controls and sets the AWG values to be used with Bode plot.
There are default Bode plot values within the scope UI but they can be altered to suit your needs. Eg. different sweep frequencies, Voltage etc.
One scope channel must be used for the reference and any of the other 3 can be selected for the Bode plot trace.
Performance is improved if one channel is selected from each channel group. Eg. 1+3, 2+4 etc.
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