Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 183633 times)

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Offline JPortici

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1325 on: May 12, 2019, 11:48:20 am »
no, or at least AFAIK the math channel operate on the full memory (in the 5000X. I believe in the 1000X as well).
It's because the integrator and the differentiator are notoriously tricky to set up in many scopes and since the DC component will be integrated over time you have to play with the parameters to get something that tends to be lined up.

This is what it should look like with filters: screenshot taken with ERES at 3bit and lowest memory depth. This is far from an ideal scenario because i have to throw away an acquisition to get a good picture. With properly implemented filters instead i could have the PWM AND the pretty picture
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1326 on: May 12, 2019, 12:13:17 pm »
The math does work on the entire sample memory, there is an existing "filter" menu for channels, with a "Type", "low limit" and "high limit" however its not obvious to me how to get to it, I suspect its like the EDUMODE menu, where if you get to it, it works, but just lacks a path to get there normally,

My current attack has been trying to find exactly what file they save the last viewed menu to when you power cycle the device,

It seems like its /usr/bin/siglent/usr/config/temp_setting.xml but manually editing this then causing an unexpected shutdown does not seem to over-ride it. equally its not entirely clear to me how the "menu_ID" is mapped, the numbering does not follow what they use for the menu tree text, If we can figure out a way to control what menu the scope starts up in, we can see if the function is available and just hidden, or if its like some of the decoder option SCPI commands where its there but does nothing (some decoder SCPI queries are hard coded to return with no data, the commands work, just find it odd)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 12:23:02 pm by Rerouter »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1327 on: May 12, 2019, 01:30:06 pm »
no, or at least AFAIK the math channel operate on the full memory (in the 5000X. I believe in the 1000X as well).


I have not checked SDS1000X  series but I suspect not (least for measurements there is intermewdiate buffer, more than display resolution but less than raw acquisition memory. 
But then SDS1000X-E series, it is different, as also it use full raw acquisition memory for measurements with full sample resoluition.

Image: SDS1204X-E  5100Hz sqr PWM 50Hz sine. Trig to  (>10ns/<30ns) pulse.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 01:31:54 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1328 on: May 12, 2019, 02:28:40 pm »
Differentiation is one of the reasons why you need filters. You filter channel and pipe it into differentiation. Than by fine tuning lowpass filter you can choose how "nervous" the differentiation will be and make it work on signal but not on noise.
Hence need for filtering and math on math..
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1329 on: May 12, 2019, 02:43:42 pm »
I have not checked SDS1000X  series but I suspect not (least for measurements there is intermewdiate buffer, more than display resolution but less than raw acquisition memory. 

Yeah, sorry. I meant X-E
 

Offline 4x1md

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1330 on: May 16, 2019, 05:54:37 pm »
FEATURE REQUEST

Did you notice the Siglent logo on the screen of SDS1000X-E? To me it looks ugly and cheap. I thought it was the same on all Siglent scopes, but the screenshots SDS5034X in this topic show that there is another much better looking version.

I pasted the logo from SDS5034X to a screenshot from SDS1000X-E. Just compare the two versions and see the difference.

Question to Siglent: would it be possible to change the logo on the SDS1000X-E screen? I know that we are talking about a piece of measurement equipment but if it can look better why not to do it? Aesthetics is also important. This small detail will make the screenshots look more professional and not cheap.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 06:19:21 pm by 4x1md »
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1331 on: May 23, 2019, 07:07:58 pm »
New firmware, updated Programming guide and Datasheet
SDS1004X-E documentation
https://www.siglentamerica.com/resources/documents/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series


Firmware updates for SDS1004X-E DSO's and SLA1016 16ch MSO module

SDS1104X-E, SDS1204X-E
Version  6.1.33
8.4 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8917/

21 issues and bugs fixed addressed in the firmware release notes:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/05/SDS1xx4X-E-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions.pdf

________________________________________________________________________________________

SLA1016 MSO module
Version 6.1.16
4.75 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8910/

Very important !
Optimized communication between SDS1004X-E and SLA1016. If the SDS1004X-E will be upgraded to this version (or higher), the SLA1016 MUST be upgraded to 8.1.16 (or higher) first.

See release notes as linked above.

Important
Run Self Cal after firmware updates.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 07:37:31 pm by tautech »
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Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1332 on: May 23, 2019, 07:31:11 pm »
New firmware, updated Programming guide and Datasheet
SDS1004X-E documentation
https://www.siglentamerica.com/resources/documents/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series


Firmware updates for SDS1004X-E DSO's and SLA1016 16ch MSO module

SDS1104X-E, SDS1204X-E
Version  6.1.33
8.4 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8917/

21 issues and bugs fixed addressed in the firmware release notes:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/05/SDS1xx4X-E-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions.pdf

________________________________________________________________________________________

SLA1016 MSO module
Version 6.1.16
4.75 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8910/

Due to compatibility between firmware versions please check your X-E DSO has 6.1.33 firmware before updating to version 6.1.16
See release notes as linked above.


Important

Run Self Cal after firmware updates.

The PDF you linked to (https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/05/SDS1xx4X-E-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions.pdf) says:

Quote
Optimized communication between SDS1004X-E and SLA1016.  If the SDS1004X-E will be upgraded to this version(or higher), the SLA1016 MUST be upgraded to 8.1.16 (or higher) first.

Which is to say, it says you MUST upgrade the SLA1016 before you upgrade the scope.

But in your message, you said that you must upgrade the scope before you upgrade the SLA1016.

Which one of those is actually correct?  It sounds like a mismatch will result in the scope not being able to talk to the logic analyzer.  That would imply that you have to upgrade the logic analyzer first (which is what Siglent's notes seem to say).  If you upgrade the scope first, it would no longer be able to talk to the logic analyzer, thus preventing you from upgrading the logic analyzer.

Please clarify.
 
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Online BillB

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1333 on: May 23, 2019, 07:54:40 pm »
I updated SLA first, then scope.  Looks ok.  :-+
 
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Offline tubularnut

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1334 on: May 23, 2019, 08:11:14 pm »
I have also just upgraded SLA first and then scope, all working well.
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1335 on: May 23, 2019, 08:34:06 pm »
If you upgrade the scope first, it would no longer be able to talk to the logic analyzer, thus preventing you from upgrading the logic analyzer.

Excellent point. Beware!
 

Offline plurn

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1336 on: May 24, 2019, 05:57:05 am »

...
If you upgrade the scope first, it would no longer be able to talk to the logic analyzer, thus preventing you from upgrading the logic analyzer.
...

That quote is taken out of context and is not a statement of fact - more of a question. I would hope this statement is not true. Imagine if you buy a used or old stock, un-upgraded SLA1016, and tried to use it with your SDS1104X-E with latest firmware. I don't expect that there would just be no communications and no way to upgrade the SLA1016 firmware it if you ended up with a new firmware SDS1104X-E and an old firmware SLA1016. But I don't really know. Perhaps you would need to downgrade firmware on SDS1104X-E (if they even let you do that) in order to upgrade the firmware on the SLA1016?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 06:00:50 am by plurn »
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1337 on: May 24, 2019, 09:05:43 am »
I also think that they wouldn't do that because if people already have an old SLA (not updated) and now buy a new SDS, how do they solve it??

But, better safe than sorry.

We can downgrade but it's always more unnecessary work...
 
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Offline Rerouter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1338 on: May 24, 2019, 10:42:41 am »
Nice to see that the decoders and digital has been fleshed out,

Is there a reason they seem very reluctant to cover the AWG option commands in the manual?
 

Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1339 on: May 24, 2019, 11:01:42 am »
I also think that they wouldn't do that because if people already have an old SLA (not updated) and now buy a new SDS, how do they solve it??

But, better safe than sorry.

We can downgrade but it's always more unnecessary work...
I think it is all quite clear from the update instructions:

Quote
Update instructions
Very important!
Version 8.1.16 of the SLA1016 optimizes the FPGA. This version is compatible with the following oscilloscope versions: SDS1004X-E (>=6.1.33), SDS2000X-E (>=1.1.18).

If your current SLA1016 revision is < 8.1.16, you can only upgrade the SLA firmware using an SDS1004X-E (<6.1.33) or an SDS2000X-E (<1.1.18)

After upgrading the SLA1016, you can upgrade the oscilloscope.

So yes, you might have to downgrade the scope in order to be able to update an old SLA (<8.1.16).
 
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Online TK

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1340 on: May 24, 2019, 01:06:54 pm »
I reported a limit of 3000 bytes on SPI decoding some time ago here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/impressive-keysight-1000x-series-(edux1002g-modded)-spi-triggering-rate/msg2417037/#msg2417037

Siglent "fixed" the problem by adding a message that the limit has been reached, instead of increasing the limit  :palm:

Long memory for nothing... it only shows 3000 SPI decode bytes (not even frames, BYTES)



 

Online TK

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1341 on: May 24, 2019, 01:10:08 pm »
After you upgrade the firmware, the stored setup recalls some strange values and settings.  The channel vertical settings were saved @ 2V/div and recalled at 200mV/div (10X attenuation).

I had setup1 in internal memory set to trigger on SPI, with threshold levels around 2V on CH1, CH2 and CH3.  After the upgrade and recall setup1, it shows threshold over 10-12V and also the trigger setting from SPI was changed to I2C...
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 04:44:25 pm by TK »
 

Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1342 on: May 25, 2019, 12:20:34 am »
After you upgrade the firmware, the stored setup recalls some strange values and settings.  The channel vertical settings were saved @ 2V/div and recalled at 200mV/div (10X attenuation).

I had setup1 in internal memory set to trigger on SPI, with threshold levels around 2V on CH1, CH2 and CH3.  After the upgrade and recall setup1, it shows threshold over 10-12V and also the trigger setting from SPI was changed to I2C...
I've tried this and found no issue with setups created by the new firmware. So this appears to be a compatibility issue with setup files from previous firmware versions. But yes, I agree, this should not happen nevertheless.
 

Online TK

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1343 on: May 25, 2019, 12:36:48 am »
After you upgrade the firmware, the stored setup recalls some strange values and settings.  The channel vertical settings were saved @ 2V/div and recalled at 200mV/div (10X attenuation).

I had setup1 in internal memory set to trigger on SPI, with threshold levels around 2V on CH1, CH2 and CH3.  After the upgrade and recall setup1, it shows threshold over 10-12V and also the trigger setting from SPI was changed to I2C...
I've tried this and found no issue with setups created by the new firmware. So this appears to be a compatibility issue with setup files from previous firmware versions. But yes, I agree, this should not happen nevertheless.
Yes, it is a setup saved in previous firmware, then recalled after upgrade
 

Offline plurn

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1344 on: May 25, 2019, 05:05:02 am »
FEATURE REQUEST

Did you notice the Siglent logo on the screen of SDS1000X-E? To me it looks ugly and cheap.

Agreed - it looks a mess.

Just found out that the Teledyne Lecroy T3DSO1104 is a rebadged SDS1104X-E. I wonder if we can get the oscilloscope app from the T3DSO1104 and use it on the SDS1104X-E for a different logo? Marketing photos of the T3DSO1104 show no logo on the screen - but I assume it has a Teledyne Lecroy logo?

http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/t3dso1000-datasheet.pdf

Edit: I assumed wrong. Just has logo removed from the display. That is a bit lazy:


credit: hackaday.io/project/163056/gallery
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 05:47:04 am by plurn »
 

Offline Calvin

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1345 on: May 25, 2019, 12:20:44 pm »
Hi,

probabely a stupid Q, but ...... ahead of updating SLA1016 I´m asked to connect a ´digital´ device (the logic probe?), which I haven´t.
Also a message appears asking for a .cfg file ????
So am I right, that I can´t update SLA1016 w/o the logic probe connected?
Or does it mean, that I can´t upgrade later on to the SLA1016, because a newer FW revision like 6.1.33 has appeared and been installed meanwhile?

regards
Calvin
 

Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1346 on: May 25, 2019, 12:47:15 pm »
Calvin, the SLA1016 is the logic probe! ;)

And yes, you cannot upgrade a device (logic probe SLA1016 in this particular case) that you don't have.

If you buy an SLA1016 later, it will most likely have the new firmware anyway, hence doesn't need to be upgraded. If I were in your position, I would just check this with your vendor and negotiate that he has to make sure it has the latest firmware (or otherwise he needs to do the update) before shipping it to you.

Even if everything else fails, you can still upgrade even an old SLA1016, you just need to downgrade your scope to a pre-6.1.33 FW beforehand (and re-update it to the then current FW again afterwards).
 

Offline Calvin

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1347 on: May 25, 2019, 01:04:37 pm »
Hi,

okidoki ... thanks .... but discovered another issue.
The USB-stick I just used to upgrade to 6.1.33 isn´t detected any more after the upgrade.  :o
If You put it in the socket a message pops up after a few seconds "USB flash drive removed" even though the device is still present.
Used another stick (which didn´t work before, probabely due to the known USB size prob) to downgrade to FW 6.1.26 again.
Then the original stick (32GB ... I bought it only for upgrading the Siglent) worked again and I could upgrade to 6.1.33 again ..... and guess what ... after reboot it couldn´t be detected and the same error message occured.  |O |O |O  :palm:
Removing the stick and the message pops again ..... so the scope recognizes the plugging and unplugging of the stick ... but doesn´t ´detect´ it.
Now isn´t  that weird?   :-- :-- :--

regards
Calvin
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 01:07:10 pm by Calvin »
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1348 on: May 25, 2019, 01:14:04 pm »
Now isn´t  that weird?   :-- :-- :--

:)

2 options: interesting or bug!

When you resinsert the disk you have the update ADS in there? If yes, delete the file and try again. What happens next?
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1349 on: May 25, 2019, 01:20:30 pm »
Can confirm that updating on my one, the USB is still recognized after the Update, I am using a 4GB USB if that matters.
 


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