Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 156258 times)

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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1350 on: May 25, 2019, 11:52:08 pm »
I've tried to replicate it:
  • 512MB NoName, FAT32, no issues
  • 8 GB Cruzer Contour, FAT32, no issues
  • 32GB Transcend USB3.0, FAT32, no issues
With a crappy 64GB Intenso, NTFS formatted, I also got the message "USB drive removed" a few seconds after plugging it in. But that was to be expected of course. FAT32 drives up to 32GB should work fine though.

If an USB stick works before the upgrade but not afterwards, it might have something to do with this item from the revision history:
Quote
4.   Optimized accessing USB drive so that when a USB drive is moved to a computer, Windows will not prompt a restoration of the USB drive.
 

Offline Calvin

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1351 on: May 26, 2019, 12:43:18 am »
Hi,

it´s a Verbatim Stick, FAT32 formatted (16kB blocks).
Deleting all files from the Stick didn´t work, neither did a reformat help.
All my other other (smaller) Sticks that didn´t work before due to the USB-size prob do work now (128M, 1G and 2G)
Btw. with the 128MB S stick my PC responded with an error message that a error had been detected and the file system had to be repaired (I remember, that the verbatim also had that issue after beeing pulled from the Siglent)
The stick is properly recognized on my PC, the Siglent SDG20242X and SDM3065X .... just not on the updated scope.

regards
Calvin
 

Offline graybeard

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Error in CSV data time
« Reply #1352 on: May 26, 2019, 03:24:21 pm »
I have had my SDS1104X-E for about two weeks and up until now I have been very impressed with the performance, especially for the money.   However I disappointed with CSV data file output in the new firmware update (6.1.33).   All other digital scopes I have used save data with time zero being the trigger point.   The scope sets time zero at the left side of the screen, and has no indication of the trigger point in the data.  I view this as a fundamental error in the data output format.  It would be OK if there was some indication of the time where the trigger occurred, but there is none in the file.

For example, look at this screen in which the trigger point is in the center of the displayed data.



Since there are 14 displayed divisions, and the time base is set for 100ns/division the time should go from -700ns to 700ns.  The scope handles this correctly internally when the data is displayed on the screen or shifted horizontally in time.

However when I save this data as a CSV file there is no indication of where the trigger occurred and the time in the file goes from 0 to 1400ns.



The CSV file is not correct.   I have not tried this with earlier versions of the firmware, but I view this as a fundamental flaw in the output data.

Chris
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 08:12:27 pm by graybeard »
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1353 on: May 26, 2019, 04:42:48 pm »
Chris, thank you for sharing your observation.

I agree that the exported data are barely useful without clear trigger point indication and I have pointed Siglent R&D to your posting.

I'm glad you like the scope otherwise!
 

Offline Apofview

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1354 on: May 27, 2019, 04:12:34 am »
Hi,
Just sharing some observation.
Plugged USB stick 16GB, works great, saving images, recognized after soft power-down, all ok, but,
after blackout (during standby - soft power down) usb still plugged in but after boot usb did not recognized.
After reboot without usb stick, plugging again usb all ok. Tested two times - unplugging from power in stand by mode.
Like scope didn't like being unplugged from power with usb plugged in.
 

Offline graybeard

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old vs new
« Reply #1355 on: May 27, 2019, 03:10:38 pm »
 
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1356 on: May 28, 2019, 06:57:04 am »
For those who wish to parse the response of the WF? ALL query, I've found this document, especially the Waveform template section to be very useful.

https://wiki.epfl.ch/carplat/documents/PDF/LC6800A_WM-RCM-E_Rev_D.pdf

With this documentation it was not to hard to get VOffset, VFactor data etc. from the response, instead of having to query them separately.

Also there're some fields with sizes in them, which can be used to get to the waveform data in a robuust way. Also knowing how many bits (1 of 2 bytes) the samples are. I don't think hires and averaging samples can be fetched with extra bits, but if it could these fields would be vital.

I still have the issue that WFSU NP,xx limits the number of point but results in having a single repeating value in the waveform data  :-//

Also would it be nice if segments could be queried separately using WFSU SN,xx. Now I'm using a different approach, which works, but I'm essentially setting gui stuff, with (usable) side effects.

I still have the issue that WFSU NP,xx limits the number of point but results in having a single repeating value in the waveform data  :-//

This seems to be solved  :-+
“I ‘d like to reincarnate as a dung beetle, ‘cause there’s nothing wrong with a shitty life, real misery comes from high expectations”
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1357 on: May 28, 2019, 07:46:42 pm »
Hi,
Just sharing some observation.
Plugged USB stick 16GB, works great, saving images, recognized after soft power-down, all ok, but,
after blackout (during standby - soft power down) usb still plugged in but after boot usb did not recognized.
After reboot without usb stick, plugging again usb all ok. Tested two times - unplugging from power in stand by mode.
Like scope didn't like being unplugged from power with usb plugged in.
This somewhat mirrors my experiences in that a hard power OFF has the DSO not saving settings.
They much prefer a soft power OFF so to shut down gracefully and remember previous settings.

BTW, whenever you report some bug or issue please include the firmware version you have installed.
Thanks.  :)
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1358 on: May 28, 2019, 10:25:27 pm »
Thank you Siglent, You build in a feature requests and don't even make note of it..  :-DD

There was a uprising amount of stuff added, its about 3MB extra on the main application alone.

We have all new Bode Plot SCPI commands  :-+

BODE:SW BODE:SWITCH Query / Command
BODE:AWG Query / Command
BODE:STIM BODE:STIMULUS Command
BODE:SWP BODE:SWEEP Command
BODE:SWP:EDIT BODE:SWEEP:EDIT Command
BODE:DUT Command
BODE:OPER BODE:OPERATE Command
BODE:DIS:APM BODE:DISPLAY:APM Command
BODE:DIS:PHA BODE:DISPLAY:PHA Command
BODE:DIS:ASET BODE:DISPLAY:ASET Command
BODE:DIS:CRS BODE:DISPLAY:CRS Command
BODE:DATA Command

Some new probe commands that hint at digital probes
C1:POffs Command / Query   
C1:PDAC Command / Query
C1:PDelta Command / Query                     
C1:PIntc C1:PIntercept Command / Query
C1:PCali C1:ProbeCalibrate Command / Query
C1:PInfo C1:ProbeInfo Command / Query
C1:ProbeSN 
C1:PType C1:ProbeType
C1:PRes C1:ProbeRes
C1:PCap C1:ProbeCap
C1:PBW C1:ProbeBW
C1:PGain C1:ProbeGain

And just way too much new stuff around decoders and triggering for me to dig through tonight, its about 4 pages worth of commands, more or less breaking out every available settings, Good work devs,
 
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Online JPortici

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1359 on: May 28, 2019, 10:31:27 pm »
Quote
Some new probe commands that hint at digital probes
probably this is for the 5000X and its active probe interface?
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1360 on: May 28, 2019, 10:33:19 pm »
Quite likely, still they are valid commands, even if they don't end up being used.
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1361 on: May 29, 2019, 12:42:22 am »
What you're seeing is probably the beauty of a common software platform. Some new features are prototyped on the entry level machine and then make their way into the higher class instruments like the midrange SDS5000X. The software modules require a well defined interface, so they can be easily ported to a touch UI instrument and this also makes it easy to add the corresponding SCPI commands.

Both the new FFT features  as well as the new Bode Plot II application will make it into the SDS5000X, but we get the first implementation in the entry level SDS1004X-E.

FFT:
- better structured UI
- selectable FFT length for easier setup without the need to change the max. record length in the Acquire menu
- up to 8 markers
- configurable search for peaks and harmonics
- table view for the search results

There are still some minor issues that will be sorted with the next update.

Bode Plot II:
- Improved accuracy
- Smoothed traces for better visual appearance
- Dynamic range at least 110dB
- New vari-level plot (you can define a table of frequency/amplitude pairs for the sweep profile)

This is still not complete, some important features are still missing and visual presentation needs further improvement, but all these topics made it on Siglent's to-do list already ;)

Attached are example screenshots for both new modules.

 
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Offline graybeard

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A wish for future firmware updates
« Reply #1362 on: May 29, 2019, 01:44:08 am »
My wish, besides fixing the lack of trigger reference error in the CSV data, for a future firmware update for the SDS1104X-E is an addition to the XY mode.  I would like to see an XYZ mode in which channel 3 or 4 could be used to vary the intensity of the trace.  This way it could mimic the functions of analog scope in the ability to vary intensity and blank the display, and also be used to mimic and analog monitor fixing older CRT based gear.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 01:50:55 am by graybeard »
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1363 on: May 29, 2019, 07:19:24 am »
My wish, besides fixing the lack of trigger reference error in the CSV data, for a future firmware update for the SDS1104X-E is an addition to the XY mode.  I would like to see an XYZ mode in which channel 3 or 4 could be used to vary the intensity of the trace.  This way it could mimic the functions of analog scope in the ability to vary intensity and blank the display, and also be used to mimic and analog monitor fixing older CRT based gear.
Well, we've got this on the todo list for the midrange model SDS5000X, and I think once we've got that, it could eventually trickle down to some other models as well. I will certainly recommend this! Or maybe this will be another instance of the reverse direction and we get it on the SDS1004X-E first - who knows?

Btw, the CSV data export issue will be fixed with the next update.
 

Offline starlight_tools

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1364 on: May 29, 2019, 09:35:07 am »
Lead me not into temptation, just point the way and I'll find it myself! 

Dang nabbit you guys you pointed the way and kicked me over the edge and even with all the nay sayers I still ordered one of these critters SDS1104X-E.  Due in 2 to 4 days.

This all started when I was offered a Rigol DS1102E from one of my clients that was barely out of the box when her husband passed away.  But it is only two channel!  From there I looked at the Rigol 1054Z but the Siglent SDS1104X-E was only $23 dollars more.

I have been looking for a 4 channel scope for quite awhile.  Most of what I need the scope for is three phase power work, testing RPC's (Rotary Phase Converters), VFD's (Varible Frequency Drives)
 etc so I need the ability to be able to show three phases on the screen at the same time to compare them.

Still doing my homework as to what other probes I will need besides the stock probes.

Walter Townsend, TTDr
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1365 on: May 29, 2019, 10:05:34 am »
Lead me not into temptation, just point the way and I'll find it myself! 

Dang nabbit you guys you pointed the way and kicked me over the edge and even with all the nay sayers I still ordered one of these critters SDS1104X-E.  Due in 2 to 4 days.

This all started when I was offered a Rigol DS1102E from one of my clients that was barely out of the box when her husband passed away.  But it is only two channel!  From there I looked at the Rigol 1054Z but the Siglent SDS1104X-E was only $23 dollars more.

I have been looking for a 4 channel scope for quite awhile.  Most of what I need the scope for is three phase power work, testing RPC's (Rotary Phase Converters), VFD's (Varible Frequency Drives)
 etc so I need the ability to be able to show three phases on the screen at the same time to compare them.

Still doing my homework as to what other probes I will need besides the stock probes.

Walter Townsend, TTDr
While the stock probes are rated to 600V @ 10x it would be wise to get some fixed 100x probes not only for their higher voltage rating but also the additional protection they offer the user and the scope.
At the sort of frequencies you'd encounter the cheap ones from eBay or Aliexpress would be fine.


This of course presumes you can probe with a common reference point (mains ground) for all your work however when you can't either 2 units of Siglents 2ch ISFE or a set of differential probes are the preferred and safe solutions.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/isolated-channel-optional-accessories%EF%BC%88isfe%EF%BC%89/
https://store.siglentamerica.com/product/isfe-isolated-front-end/

One thing I can't confirm as I haven't checked is if 2 ISFE units will mount side by side onto the 4 BNC inputs and you'd need to check with one of our tech support people to confirm they do.
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Offline starlight_tools

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1366 on: May 29, 2019, 11:48:03 am »
Thanks tautech, both 100X probes and differentials are on my list.  Would be nice to know if the isfe probes can be used to isolate all four channels.  Case in point 3 phase Delta Configuration where there is no common ground, as opposed to Wye or Star configuration where there is a common ground point.

Walter Townsend, TTDr
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1367 on: May 29, 2019, 12:27:38 pm »
Would be nice to know if the isfe probes can be used to isolate all four channels.  Case in point 3 phase Delta Configuration where there is no common ground, as opposed to Wye or Star configuration where there is a common ground point.

Walter Townsend, TTDr
Popped that question to tech support for you/us.
Should have the answer in a few hours.
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Offline plurn

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1368 on: May 29, 2019, 12:28:39 pm »
...
One thing I can't confirm as I haven't checked is if 2 ISFE units will mount side by side onto the 4 BNC inputs and you'd need to check with one of our tech support people to confirm they do.

Looks too wide to connect two units directly side by side. I wonder if they could be attached with very short coax cables with appropriate bnc connectors on each end without hurting performance.

edit: just realised one of them could be connected upside down so maybe they would fit?

https://www.siglent.eu/isfe-siglent-isolated-front-end-module.html
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1369 on: May 29, 2019, 01:55:14 pm »
...
One thing I can't confirm as I haven't checked is if 2 ISFE units will mount side by side onto the 4 BNC inputs and you'd need to check with one of our tech support people to confirm they do.

Looks too wide to connect two units directly side by side. I wonder if they could be attached with very short coax cables with appropriate bnc connectors on each end without hurting performance.

edit: just realised one of them could be connected upside down so maybe they would fit ?
Yes this ^.
More in depth answer to follow soon.
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1370 on: May 29, 2019, 02:30:31 pm »
Initial reply from Siglent indicates 2 units ISFE wouldn't fit on SDS1104X-E however some BNC C-C measurements indicates they will...........just !  :phew:

As plurn has guessed one unit needs to be flipped, 1/ to fit the BNC's and 2/ to expose the USB A socket so to get power to the ISFE.
In an old thread about ISFE we examined their basic performance which is by no means can be called startling however now we have input attenuation to roughly match the ~200x of ISFE reasonable indicative measurements can now be taken and even further improved upon using the custom input attenuation settings X-E DSO's have.

This thread could use some updates however it's a broad look at the capabilities of ISFE:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-isfe-scope-front-end-isolator-any-opinions/


Back to the issue at hand.......well I believe 2 units of ISFE will indeed fit the SDS1104X-E but as I don't have 2 units we need to rely on measurements and here I've marked the center of ch2 and ch3 in pencil and as this photo shows there's basically zero clearance between 2 units.



So a little ingenuity may be required to power both units and still have one USB A socket available for screenshots but I guess any USB phone charger should be adequate if its power is clean enough.

A screenshot
20V p-p 1000Hz from SDG1032X
BNC cable

« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 02:53:10 pm by tautech »
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Offline graybeard

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1371 on: May 29, 2019, 02:36:53 pm »
Given the limited 1MHz bandwidth of these units there should be no difference in the resulting measurements if they are connected with a pair of short BNC cables.   That seems like the obvious solution to me.
Plus it looks like the units will apply some shear stress on where the BNC connectors soldered to the PCB on the scope.  Thus using short BNC cables seems like the best choice.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 02:40:36 pm by graybeard »
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1372 on: May 29, 2019, 02:50:25 pm »
Given the limited 1MHz bandwidth of these units there should be no difference in the resulting measurements if they are connected with a pair of short BNC cables.   That seems like the obvious solution to me.
Plus it looks like the units will apply some shear stress on where the BNC connectors soldered to the PCB on the scope.  Thus using short BNC cables seems like the best choice.
Shear stress is minimized in that Siglent use chassis bolt through bulkhead style BNC's in all their DSO's.
We don't have TDS210/220 BNC style fixing thank heavens.  :phew:
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1373 on: May 29, 2019, 02:54:45 pm »
Suppose a stupid question. But is there any reason a siglent scope would not support an externally powered usb hub.
 

Offline starlight_tools

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1374 on: May 29, 2019, 03:29:28 pm »
Lead me not into temptation, just point the way and I'll find it myself! 

Dang nabbit you guys you pointed the way and kicked me over the edge and even with all the nay sayers I still ordered one of these critters SDS1104X-E.  Due in 2 to 4 days.

This all started when I was offered a Rigol DS1102E from one of my clients that was barely out of the box when her husband passed away.  But it is only two channel!  From there I looked at the Rigol 1054Z but the Siglent SDS1104X-E was only $23 dollars more.

I have been looking for a 4 channel scope for quite awhile.  Most of what I need the scope for is three phase power work, testing RPC's (Rotary Phase Converters), VFD's (Varible Frequency Drives)
 etc so I need the ability to be able to show three phases on the screen at the same time to compare them.

Still doing my homework as to what other probes I will need besides the stock probes.

Walter Townsend, TTDr
While the stock probes are rated to 600V @ 10x it would be wise to get some fixed 100x probes not only for their higher voltage rating but also the additional protection they offer the user and the scope.
At the sort of frequencies you'd encounter the cheap ones from eBay or Aliexpress would be fine.


This of course presumes you can probe with a common reference point (mains ground) for all your work however when you can't either 2 units of Siglents 2ch ISFE or a set of differential probes are the preferred and safe solutions.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/isolated-channel-optional-accessories%EF%BC%88isfe%EF%BC%89/
https://store.siglentamerica.com/product/isfe-isolated-front-end/

One thing I can't confirm as I haven't checked is if 2 ISFE units will mount side by side onto the 4 BNC inputs and you'd need to check with one of our tech support people to confirm they do.

P4250 or CP-3308R  or B&K PR2000B which would couple to the Siglent better.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 03:42:08 pm by starlight_tools »
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