Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 167530 times)

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Offline SMB784

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1400 on: July 14, 2019, 10:03:58 am »
Any word on whether or not the WiFi bug fixes address the fact that the scope has trouble connecting to WiFi networks with spaces or special characters in the name? Does DHCP actually automatically update the IP address? WiFi connectivity has been a serious hindrance for this scope in my experience.

So I finally had a chance to test this question, and boy was I disappointed.  The update states that PSK keys can be 63 characters long.  Yay right?  I am also happy to report that the DHCP also works, if you can actually get the damn thing connected to the internet in the first place (more about that later).

Well unfortunately the PSK STILL cannot have any special characters OR spaces in it.  Additionally, the SSID ALSO STILL cannot have any special characters OR spaces in it.

This is honestly ridiculous at this point.  It makes buying the wifi adapter completely pointless, given that you have to jump through crazy hoops and modify your wifi router settings (which you may not even have access to in a commercial environment) to get the damn thing to connect.

How can this have been overlooked, especially when they were already working on the WIFI access in this most recent update?
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1401 on: July 14, 2019, 10:11:32 am »
So I finally had a chance to test this question, and boy was I disappointed.  The update states that PSK keys can be 63 characters long.  Yay right?  I am also happy to report that the DHCP also works, if you can actually get the damn thing connected to the internet in the first place (more about that later).

Well unfortunately the PSK STILL cannot have any special characters OR spaces in it.  Additionally, the SSID ALSO STILL cannot have any special characters OR spaces in it.

This is honestly ridiculous at this point.  It makes buying the wifi adapter completely pointless, given that you have to jump through crazy hoops and modify your wifi router settings (which you may not even have access to in a commercial environment) to get the damn thing to connect.

How can this have been overlooked, especially when they were already working on the WIFI access in this most recent update?
The conclusion may be that these oscilloscopes aren't expected to be used in commercial environments.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1402 on: July 14, 2019, 10:34:00 am »
Any word on whether or not the WiFi bug fixes address the fact that the scope has trouble connecting to WiFi networks with spaces or special characters in the name? Does DHCP actually automatically update the IP address? WiFi connectivity has been a serious hindrance for this scope in my experience.

So I finally had a chance to test this question, and boy was I disappointed.  The update states that PSK keys can be 63 characters long.  Yay right?  I am also happy to report that the DHCP also works, if you can actually get the damn thing connected to the internet in the first place (more about that later).

Well unfortunately the PSK STILL cannot have any special characters OR spaces in it.  Additionally, the SSID ALSO STILL cannot have any special characters OR spaces in it.

This is honestly ridiculous at this point.  It makes buying the wifi adapter completely pointless, given that you have to jump through crazy hoops and modify your wifi router settings (which you may not even have access to in a commercial environment) to get the damn thing to connect.

How can this have been overlooked, especially when they were already working on the WIFI access in this most recent update?
Yep, Siglent missed some stuff for the special PSK characters and it's been pointed out to them. We wait for new FW.........
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Offline SMB784

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1403 on: July 14, 2019, 12:01:41 pm »
The conclusion may be that these oscilloscopes aren't expected to be used in commercial environments.

I definitely can understand that, but what about a research environment or academia or eduction? Are we truly supposed to believe that these scopes aren't to be used in either a classroom, a laboratory, or an office environment? All of these generally do not let the user pick a ridiculously restrictive and insecure psk or ssid.
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Offline Dundarave

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1404 on: July 14, 2019, 01:41:29 pm »
The conclusion may be that these oscilloscopes aren't expected to be used in commercial environments.

I definitely can understand that, but what about a research environment or academia or eduction? Are we truly supposed to believe that these scopes aren't to be used in either a classroom, a laboratory, or an office environment? All of these generally do not let the user pick a ridiculously restrictive and insecure psk or ssid.

The inability to make use of “special characters” or blanks hardly qualifies as forcing a “ridiculously restrictive and insecure psk or ssid.”  Most large institutions I’ve encountered avoid using them altogether to avoid the inevitable confusion with visitors or dealing with other non-compliant gear.

63 chars randomly chosen from a set of 36 makes for a pretty sparse possibility matrix.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 01:50:42 pm by Dundarave »
 

Offline SMB784

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1405 on: July 15, 2019, 12:54:44 pm »
The inability to make use of “special characters” or blanks hardly qualifies as forcing a “ridiculously restrictive and insecure psk or ssid.”  Most large institutions I’ve encountered avoid using them altogether to avoid the inevitable confusion with visitors or dealing with other non-compliant gear.

63 chars randomly chosen from a set of 36 makes for a pretty sparse possibility matrix.

It's plenty restrictive when the institution's WiFi that you are trying to connect to literally requires special characters in all passwords, and the more serious issue is the lack of spaces allowed in the SSID, which many SSIDs that I have encountered on an institutional basis possess.

Finally, why make something less secure in purpose when it is simple to make it more secure? The argument against it is ridiculous on its face.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 03:33:09 pm by SMB784 »
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1406 on: July 16, 2019, 05:05:18 am »
right, the best is to use only spaces and two special characters at begin and end.

https://blog.stevepaulo.com/your-password-complexity-requirements-suck-7934c4e4b295
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Offline ADJohnson

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1407 on: July 18, 2019, 08:37:15 am »
Siglent America have FW 6.1.33 to download for a SDS1104X-E from May this year, but Siglent EU still has 6.1.26 from September last year.  Is there a reason for this or could I just go ahead and update to 6.1.33 - I’m in the UK with the scope supplied from within the EU?

Thanks,

Andrew
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1408 on: July 18, 2019, 10:56:14 am »
Siglent America have FW 6.1.33 to download for a SDS1104X-E from May this year, but Siglent EU still has 6.1.26 from September last year.  Is there a reason for this or could I just go ahead and update to 6.1.33 - I’m in the UK with the scope supplied from within the EU?

Thanks,

Andrew
Welcome to the forum.

Dunno what website you've checked but maybe you were looking at the SDS1202X-E 6.1.26 firmware and not firmware for the 4ch X-E models.  :-//
6.1.33 firmware is there, currently it's the 3rd one down in this list:
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series

Note; the Release notes link only applies to the version atop of the list however Release notes applicable to the version you download are in the zipped package.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1409 on: July 18, 2019, 02:17:35 pm »
Siglent America have FW 6.1.33 to download for a SDS1104X-E from May this year, but Siglent EU still has 6.1.26 from September last year.  Is there a reason for this or could I just go ahead and update to 6.1.33 - I’m in the UK with the scope supplied from within the EU?

Thanks,

Andrew

If you still have SDS1104X-E with old FW 6.1.26  new  FW  6.1.33. have lot of improvements.
Remember read update instructions and use USB flash(of course native FAT32) what you really know working with your scope  and finally do (mandatory) self calibration after continuous power on.

This is official Siglent European area

https://www.siglenteu.com/




Siglent.EU (https://www.siglent.eu) is not at all Siglent. Just one individual distributor who try "looks like" real Siglent.




« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 02:43:52 pm by rf-loop »
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Offline ADJohnson

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1410 on: July 18, 2019, 06:29:29 pm »
Ah! That’s where I was going wrong - Siglent.eu.  It was/is the one that pops up top of search results and it looks real enough.  Feel like an idiot now :)

Thanks guys.
 

Offline starlight_tools

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1411 on: July 19, 2019, 03:24:23 pm »
[ Specified attachment is not available ]
Initial reply from Siglent indicates 2 units ISFE wouldn't fit on SDS1104X-E however some BNC C-C measurements indicates they will...........just !  :phew:

As plurn has guessed one unit needs to be flipped, 1/ to fit the BNC's and 2/ to expose the USB A socket so to get power to the ISFE.
In an old thread about ISFE we examined their basic performance which is by no means can be called startling however now we have input attenuation to roughly match the ~200x of ISFE reasonable indicative measurements can now be taken and even further improved upon using the custom input attenuation settings X-E DSO's have.

This thread could use some updates however it's a broad look at the capabilities of ISFE:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-isfe-scope-front-end-isolator-any-opinions/


Back to the issue at hand.......well I believe 2 units of ISFE will indeed fit the SDS1104X-E but as I don't have 2 units we need to rely on measurements and here I've marked the center of ch2 and ch3 in pencil and as this photo shows there's basically zero clearance between 2 units.



So a little ingenuity may be required to power both units and still have one USB A socket available for screenshots but I guess any USB phone charger should be adequate if its power is clean enough.

A screenshot
20V p-p 1000Hz from SDG1032X
BNC cable






This confirms that two ISFE's will connect and operate on the SDS1104X-E scope with minimal clearance between the two units, although as stated one is upside downs so care has to be taken not to let the electrons fall out. 

Seriously though, I am a bit concerned about the weight of them hanging off the BNC connectors of the scope and if they get pulled in any way it could end up damaging the scope's front end.  I figure that I will try to find a set of BNC to BNC connector cables which will get the cantilevered weight off.  Especially as they will be used in a shop environment, which is more like field work than bench testing work.

Thanks for all your help gang!



« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 03:28:25 pm by starlight_tools »
Walter Townsend, TTDr
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1412 on: July 19, 2019, 06:57:13 pm »
Seriously though, I am a bit concerned about the weight of them hanging off the BNC connectors of the scope and if they get pulled in any way it could end up damaging the scope's front end.
Thanks Walter for coming back to us with 4 isolated channels, very cool. Hope they fulfill your needs.

While I understand your concerns for the front end let me explain and show you a little of its construction.
The 4 BNC's pass through part of the steel chassis of which they are fastened to with nuts and the BNC bases are 4 post varieties that are mounted vertically onto the mainboard.
This makes for a fairly rugged construction where damage is more likely to occur to the BNC shell itself rather than its connection or to the mainboard.
Below in Daves teardown from the rear of the mainboard you can see the the 4 posts and center conductor of each BNC and to the far right is the Pass/Fail BNC that's of the same type and fastens onto the rear metal case.

https://youtu.be/Kay4Jk2DHuE?t=313

So yes, maybe for piece of mind short BNC cables will alleviate the risk of damage in a shop environment.
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Offline starlight_tools

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1413 on: July 20, 2019, 02:47:34 am »

Below in Daves teardown from the rear of the mainboard you can see the the 4 posts and center conductor of each BNC and to the far right is the Pass/Fail BNC that's of the same type and fastens onto the rear metal case.

https://youtu.be/Kay4Jk2DHuE?t=313

So yes, maybe for piece of mind short BNC cables will alleviate the risk of damage in a shop environment.
Thanks Rob, I had watched the teardown and had seen that, but between Murphy's law and the laws of physics, which say that if you hang something out in the air, it will get damaged!  Like in machining, you never clamp over air, or building a structure, you never have a point load that is not supported by a foundation under it.
 
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1414 on: July 21, 2019, 01:59:26 am »
Is any one having issues with the Web interface on the new FW using a wireless connection. It used to work fine on the old FW. I am able to get it to work intermittently if I set the IP to DHCP but if I set a static IP it does not work at all. On the scope it shows it is connected for both DHCP and static IP. If I use an Ethernet cable cable it works fine. To rule out the WiFi adapter I tested it on a PC and it works fine. Also tried the both USB ports on the scope.

Thanks,
Mike
 

Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1415 on: July 21, 2019, 02:04:52 am »
Are you using the same ip adress for both wifi and ethernet?
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1416 on: July 21, 2019, 02:10:18 am »
For DHCP the IP is whatever gets assigned and using a static IP I tried several different IP's that are not used on my network and are not part of my DHCP pool. Also when trying to use WiFi the Ethernet cable is not connected.

Thanks,
Mike 
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 02:12:24 am by MikeLud »
 

Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1417 on: July 21, 2019, 02:35:00 am »
Assuming the ip adress is conform the subnet, does a simple ping also not work?
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1418 on: July 21, 2019, 02:56:38 am »
HendriXML,

My subnet is set 255.255.255.0 for my network and a simple ping does not work.

Thanks,
Mike
 

Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1419 on: July 21, 2019, 03:18:51 am »
HendriXML,

My subnet is set 255.255.255.0 for my network and a simple ping does not work.

Thanks,
Mike
Hi,

255.255.255.0 Is the subnet mask, That means xxx.xxx.xxx. must be the same of all the local ip addresses.

Is that the case?
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Online MikeLud

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1420 on: July 21, 2019, 03:38:55 am »
HendriXML,

Yes, the subnet for all devices on the network are the same.

Thanks,
Mike
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1421 on: July 21, 2019, 05:08:38 am »
What is the static IP address and the default router?
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1422 on: July 21, 2019, 05:27:56 am »
TK,

Scope Static IP is set to 192.168.1.212 and the router IP is set to 192.168.1.1  I have the DHCP range set in the router to 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.199 and use 192.168.1.200+ for static IP's

Thanks,
Mike
 

Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1423 on: July 21, 2019, 05:42:05 am »
TK,

Scope Static IP is set to 192.168.1.212 and the router IP is set to 192.168.1.1  I have the DHCP range set in the router to 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.199 and use 192.168.1.200+ for static IP's

Thanks,
Mike
The scope will have two ip addresses, one for wifi and one for ethernet. Just to be on the safe side I would make them different, whether the ethernet cable is connected or not.
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1424 on: July 21, 2019, 05:50:39 am »
On my router I can see what devices are connected to WiFi, doesn't the scopes adapter show up there?

Also it is not blocked (or not in the whitelist) by its mac address?
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