Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 188365 times)

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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1500 on: October 14, 2019, 05:43:31 am »
Testing 123
I have made some I2C experiments with my nice SDS 1104X-E scope and have a question about the record length of I2C data.
I send I2C data from an Arduino Pro Mini to a MPC4725 12 bit DAC on slave address 0x64 followed by the update command byte 0x40. After each update 0x40 follow 2 bytes DAC data from 0x00/0x00 to 0x26/0x26  (total 117 bytes, from 0Volt to approx. 0.5V) .
If I decode this data on my SDS 1104X-E  I can see only the first 66  bytes in the Long Data window, please see screenshot_1.
Question: is 66 the maximum I2C record length?

Another I2C question I have is about the data in the bottom (blue) data line, please see screenshot_2. Here the time base for the same data is 200usec/div.
As you can see the bottom data line is a fragment of the long data window. If I turn the Y-position to the left to see more data the complete data suddenly disappear, see screenshot_3.
Is this a bug in the scope software?

Many thanks in advance!



Somehow this thread is stuck if try open this page 60
After some moderator find what is this stuck problem, please remove this My message.
Yep, reported to the Mods a little while ago.
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Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1501 on: October 14, 2019, 07:46:06 am »
A few minutes ago I replied to the latest post on page 61 with the 3 images and again I received the error message:

504 Gateway Time-out
------------------------
   nginx

What's going wrong???
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1502 on: October 14, 2019, 08:04:07 am »
A few minutes ago I replied to the latest post on page 61 with the 3 images and again I received the error message:

504 Gateway Time-out
------------------------
   nginx

What's going wrong???
P60 is broken, possibly from an upload with a bad/wrong file extension or something.
Our resident server wizard gnif will sort it when he can get to it.

In the meanwhile we ask that everyone double checks any uploads before attempting to add them to any posts.
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Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1503 on: October 14, 2019, 12:55:05 pm »
Maybe this additional info will help.
The three images I attached are directly from my Siglent SDS 1104X-E (software version 6.1.33)
via USB (EasyScopeX version 100R001B02D01P20) and have the extension PNG.

Each are 750kB.

Success with solving the upload problem!!
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1504 on: October 14, 2019, 01:29:08 pm »
via USB (EasyScopeX version 100R001B02D01P20) and have the extension PNG.
Each are 750kB.

It looks like all 3 of your .PNGs are .BMPs with the wrong ext. Their # of downloads of 2,2,2 are all me. .PNGs of them are only around 50kB.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 01:36:51 pm by StillTrying »
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1505 on: October 14, 2019, 04:09:37 pm »
Strange.
I tried again and my .bmp files are around 750 KByte.
In  .jpg format they are 120kByte. Both formats are 800 x 480.

I try to send the 3 screenshots in .jpg format.
I hope things are going well now

---------------------------------------------------------------
I see: now the images are oke. :)
For completeness I append my original questions

I have made some I2C experiments with my nice SDS 1104X-E scope (software version 6.1.33) and have a question about the record length of I2C data.
I send I2C data from an Arduino Pro Mini to a MPC4725 12 bit DAC on slave address 0x64 followed by the update command byte 0x40. After each update 0x40 follow 2 bytes DAC data from 0x00/0x00 to 0x26/0x26  (total 117 bytes, from 0Volt to approx. 0.5V) .
If I decode this data on my SDS 1104X-E  I can see only the first 66  bytes in the Long Data window, please see screenshot_1.
Question: is 66 the maximum I2C record length?

Another I2C question I have is about the data in the bottom (blue) data line, please see screenshot_2. Here the time base for the same data is 200usec/div.
As you can see the bottom data line is a fragment of the long data window. If I turn the Y-position to the left to see more data the complete data suddenly disappear, see screenshot_3.
Is this a bug in the scope software?

Many thanks in advance!


« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 04:14:28 pm by Willem2018 »
 

Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1506 on: October 14, 2019, 04:53:12 pm »
The SDS1104X-E decodes what is in the screen, so if you are pushing the i2c start condition out of the screen, it will not decode.
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1507 on: October 14, 2019, 07:49:43 pm »
The SDS1104X-E decodes what is in the screen, so if you are pushing the i2c start condition out of the screen, it will not decode.
The workaround is to Decode in Zoom mode but with the main timebase as slow as possible (not ROLL mode) and then examine the decoded data in the zoomed window.
Then in Zoom we can walk the H pos over some 100's of ms of data without problems and still see where we are in relation to the decode trigger position.

The strong clues to this are mem depth on top right of the display, slow timebase settings offer the most memory available where when in Zoom mode we then have a large field to study.
Like with any DSO, the more data we have captured the more we have to inspect.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1508 on: October 14, 2019, 09:03:21 pm »
The SDS1104X-E decodes what is in the screen, so if you are pushing the i2c start condition out of the screen, it will not decode.

Yes, it decode always full currently used acquisition memory length *) and decoders are software based (so it can decode also from history waveform buffer and from sequence mode saved acquisitions)

*) Acquisition length = display width, always. Whole memory length is always exactly same as display width, independent of if capture length is 7 pts or 14Mpts. There is no overlap part of trace outside of screen. 




(there is more explanations etc., but only by finnish)

Max amount of IIC messages is 1000 (2 independent IIC decoders, both 1000 messsages max). Independent of if message length is 1 or 32bytes. I have not tested with longer than 32byte messages.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 04:03:13 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1509 on: October 14, 2019, 10:08:36 pm »
Strange.
I tried again and my .bmp files are around 750 KByte.
In  .jpg format they are 120kByte. Both formats are 800 x 480.

I try to send the 3 screenshots in .jpg format.
I hope things are going well now
FYI not all file types can be uploaded directly to the forum:
Allowed file types: doc, gif, jpg, jpeg, pdf, png, txt, zip, tar, c, h, hex, bas, xls, odt, asm, wav, aiff, wma, mp3, flac, asc, ods, xlsx, py
Many file types can be converted to the allowed types with various programs like MS Paint or uploaded with a false file extension like .txt and add a note to remove the .txt so they can be used in their native/correct format.

All SDS****X-E models export screenshots in .png to USB and are only some 30-70 KB depending on the scope settings.
If your scope settings have been changed and now not exporting screenshots in .png use the Default button to return it to factory settings.

Later so to not have similar issues use the Save/Recall menu to change/set the behavior of the Default button where you can set your own default settings like V/div, active channels, timebase etc, etc.
You can also reset the Default to factory settings if you make some mistake or change your personal default settings later.
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1510 on: October 15, 2019, 08:48:35 am »
There is no need to change extensions in the forum. Just zip the "strange" file to .ZIP and you get an official .ZIP file that one can upload. Anyone can download it and store it like that and, later, any program/OS will know how to deal with it. It's a simple operation and involves no "patchings".
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1511 on: October 15, 2019, 09:25:35 am »
P60 seems still broken, so...

I posted roughly the following on page 60 of this thread:

With the recent onslaught of new firmware versions for Siglent equipment, most notably the sds1xx4X-E and the sdg2000X, Siglent's published User Guides (and Service Manuals) have become inaccurate in some respects and parts, and in a few cases just wrong

Is anyone working on documenting these changes, perhaps updating manuals or writing addendi?

Is Siglent addressing this issue?
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1512 on: October 15, 2019, 09:43:47 am »
what part of the manual are you after, what commands or controls?
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1513 on: October 15, 2019, 09:46:05 am »
P60 seems still broken, so...

I posted roughly the following on page 60 of this thread:

With the recent onslaught of new firmware versions for Siglent equipment, most notably the sds1xx4X-E and the sdg2000X, Siglent's published User Guides (and Service Manuals) have become inaccurate in some respects and parts, and in a few cases just wrong

Is anyone working on documenting these changes, perhaps updating manuals or writing addendi?

Is Siglent addressing this issue?
If not they’re about to have a discussion about just that, whether they want to or not....spent some good time today on an email to those that can change things.

Yes this has been bugging me too and the issue doesn’t just affect SDS1000X-E documents, as you’ve noticed others too.  >:(
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Offline borjam

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1514 on: October 15, 2019, 09:58:09 am »
Right now documentation is their weakest point.

The fate of our times, on the other hand. Poorer documentation and mostly silly videos instead.
 

Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1515 on: October 15, 2019, 10:08:30 am »
Strange.
I tried again and my .bmp files are around 750 KByte.
In  .jpg format they are 120kByte. Both formats are 800 x 480.

I try to send the 3 screenshots in .jpg format.
I hope things are going well now
FYI not all file types can be uploaded directly to the forum:
Allowed file types: doc, gif, jpg, jpeg, pdf, png, txt, zip, tar, c, h, hex, bas, xls, odt, asm, wav, aiff, wma, mp3, flac, asc, ods, xlsx, py
Many file types can be converted to the allowed types with various programs like MS Paint or uploaded with a false file extension like .txt and add a note to remove the .txt so they can be used in their native/correct format.

All SDS****X-E models export screenshots in .png to USB and are only some 30-70 KB depending on the scope settings.
If your scope settings have been changed and now not exporting screenshots in .png use the Default button to return it to factory settings.

Later so to not have similar issues use the Save/Recall menu to change/set the behavior of the Default button where you can set your own default settings like V/div, active channels, timebase etc, etc.
You can also reset the Default to factory settings if you make some mistake or change your personal default settings later.

Thanks for your quick response!

No big issue but after pressed the Default button and saved the same scope screenshot with all the possible extensions:
.png  751kB
.bmp 1501kB
.jpg  43kB

A very big difference in size.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 10:13:09 am by Willem2018 »
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1516 on: October 15, 2019, 10:20:35 am »


No big issue but after pressed the Default button and saved the same scope screenshot with all the possible extensions:
.png  751kB
.bmp 1501kB
.jpg  43kB

A very big difference in size.
To USB stick ?

Tip, use the blue Print button to save directly to a USB stick. Much faster than using the Save/Recall menu path.
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Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1517 on: October 15, 2019, 10:32:42 am »


No big issue but after pressed the Default button and saved the same scope screenshot with all the possible extensions:
.png  751kB
.bmp 1501kB
.jpg  43kB

A very big difference in size.
To USB stick ?

Tip, use the blue Print button to save directly to a USB stick. Much faster than using the Save/Recall menu path.

No I saved it via USB and EasyScopeX on my PC. Then in the Virtual Panel right-click and Save As --> the png is 750kByte
But your suggestion 'blue Print button to save directly to a USB stick' did it!
Now the .png file is only 26kB.
Again: no big issue but rather odd and this big EasyScopeX .png perhaps caused the upload problems on page60?
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1518 on: October 15, 2019, 10:51:45 am »


No big issue but after pressed the Default button and saved the same scope screenshot with all the possible extensions:
.png  751kB
.bmp 1501kB
.jpg  43kB

A very big difference in size.
To USB stick ?

Tip, use the blue Print button to save directly to a USB stick. Much faster than using the Save/Recall menu path.

No I saved it via USB and EasyScopeX on my PC. Then in the Virtual Panel right-click and Save As --> the png is 750kByte
OK, now instead of EasyScope use the scopes inbuilt webrowser.
Utility>I/O>LAN>IP
Turn DHCP ON to get an IP address from your modem then turn OFF.
Enter this IP into your browser bar and hit enter.
Have fun, much more fun !  :)

Quote
But your suggestion 'blue Print button to save directly to a USB stick' did it!
Now the .png file is only 26kB.
:-+
Quote
Again: no big issue but rather odd and this big EasyScopeX .png perhaps caused the upload problems on page60?
Possibly, something we need to check out.  :-//
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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1519 on: October 15, 2019, 12:22:24 pm »
For capturing data, the web interface really shines, you can just rapid fire off image captures and they download via your browser skipping the usb step entirely, I believe you can also grab channel data this way, but I've been off on site for a few weeks so I'm working from memory.
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1520 on: October 15, 2019, 02:06:10 pm »
I investigated the averaging script to see whether it is really possible to extract more signal details.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/automated-wave-capture-for-siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-dsos/

To test this I created a arbitrary waveform with 2 sines superimposed on each other. One only 0.5% of the main sine and 50x the freq. That's sine way "played" at 1000 hz and a 5 V amplitude.

When using the averaging script 0.08V std deviation noise was added, via the combine function C1=C1+C2 on the AWG.

The signal was fetched with 202 segments, which where averaged and plotted in Excel.

In the high res image the second sine can clearly be seen. I think this shows that for a repeating signal this method allows to extract details, without losing the oversight of the signal.

The scripting tool now doesn't use the VISA com-wrappers anymore, but instead uses the Visa32/Visa64 dll directly. Which means USB connection does now work. (The com wrappers where faulty using them). After running some more tests I'll upload the new tool and scripts.

(B.t.w. the screenshots the script takes in PNG format are around 20 kB.)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 03:58:14 pm by HendriXML »
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1521 on: October 15, 2019, 03:15:55 pm »
I wondered if it was possible to clean up the imperfections the noise may add to the signal. To do that I captured the noise with another channel and calculated a new average signal, with subtracting the average noise of each sample.
The difference between the two can be seen in the image. The noise (of the noise) can indeed be taken away a bit further. Important to mention is that these details are less than the dac step size.

There're other ways to lower/lift the signal to get sub-step size resolution, but these involve following the scope acquisition cycles. So adding noise is probably the easiest way.
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Offline blurpy

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1522 on: October 31, 2019, 06:56:03 pm »
I see quite a lot of lag on the screen of my SDS1204X-E with the 6.1.33 firmware when measurements are active. Looks like the trace is paused for maybe a hundred milliseconds while it's taking a measurement and updating the screen. Is this expected? I couldn't find any post in this thread when searching for "lag".

I've filmed the scope to demonstrate. Video here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zeJAm1xtiRL67nXrLH39QUYI-IuTzVd4/view

1. The video starts with measurements off. The trace moves smoothly.
2. I click the measure button, with the "all measure" option on, and movement quickly starts to lag. There is a noticeable pause in the trace every time measurements are updated on the screen.
3. I turn off the "all measure" option. Lag is now much much worse, even though there are no measurements visible on the screen, only the trace.
4. I enable the "all measure" option again. Lag only happens when updating measurements on the screen again, like #2.
5. I click the measure button to get out of measure mode. The trace moves smoothly, like #1.
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1523 on: October 31, 2019, 07:30:26 pm »
While it should not be the case, does the behavior change if you reduce your sample memory size?
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1524 on: October 31, 2019, 07:52:31 pm »
While it should not be the case, does the behavior change if you reduce your sample memory size?

I just tested, and reducing the memory depth to 1.4M fixes the lag and makes the measurements appear much more often.
Going back to 14M reintroduces the lag instantly.

Am I the only one seeing this behavior?
 


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