Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 240285 times)

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Offline 4x1md

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1625 on: March 14, 2020, 12:22:56 pm »
Yes. Did it twice after a version update some days ago.

Online TK

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1626 on: March 14, 2020, 02:19:34 pm »
Try switching the probes (1->4, 4->1).  I have 10% difference on my scope, switching the probes switches the measurements as well (4V CH1, 4.4V CH4 --> 4.4V CH1, 4V CH4)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 02:25:46 pm by TK »
 

Offline 4x1md

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1627 on: March 14, 2020, 03:00:36 pm »
I tried. Still get the same results.

Online TK

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1628 on: March 14, 2020, 04:06:04 pm »
Have you tried different vertical measurements besides MAX?
 

Offline ArcticPhoenix0

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1629 on: March 14, 2020, 05:02:57 pm »
Probes calibrated to the channels? My channel 2 probe will read different if I put it on a different channel. Not a huge difference but it's there.
 

Offline 4x1md

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1630 on: March 14, 2020, 05:07:46 pm »
The probes were in 1X mode which doesn't require calibration.

Online Caliaxy

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1631 on: March 14, 2020, 05:39:26 pm »
I found a mismatch between channels in my unit.

It’s actually not that bad, your scope might be within specs.

If at 1V/div the range of the 8 bit ADC is 10V (it might be as high as 16V), one step (the least significant bit, LSB) is 10,000mV/256=~40mV. The difference between your two channels is ~120mV, i.e. about 3 LSB. No ADC can be more precise than +/- 1 LSB, in practice the error is higher. In your case, the mismatch is about 3 LSBs. I wouldn’t worry too much about this.

You might get a smaller mismatch if you switch to 500 mV/div, because the LSB gets smaller - is that true?

Also, is the bandwidth limited to 20 MHz on both channels? A BW limiting mismatch can contribute to min/max mismatches.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 05:41:02 pm by Caliaxy »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1632 on: March 14, 2020, 07:23:08 pm »
How are the versions of Siglent manuals numbered? For example, I have oscilloscope manuals versions UM0101X-E02A,  UM0201X-E01D and UM0101E-E03C. How can I know which one is the latest?
I go by the suffix so UM0101E-E03C is the most recent and the only one currently listed on the Hamburg website:
https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDS1000X-E_UserManual_UM0101E-E03C.pdf
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Offline 4x1md

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1633 on: March 14, 2020, 08:11:58 pm »
You might get a smaller mismatch if you switch to 500 mV/div, because the LSB gets smaller - is that true?

Yes. Going to 500 mV/div or 200 mV/div increases the precision.


Also, is the bandwidth limited to 20 MHz on both channels? A BW limiting mismatch can contribute to min/max mismatches.
I didn't try it. But with signals with a slow raise time I don't see this problem. May it be a kind of overshoot?

Offline 4x1md

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1634 on: March 18, 2020, 09:50:19 pm »
FEATURE REQUEST

Did you notice the Siglent logo on the screen of SDS1000X-E? To me it looks ugly and cheap. I thought it was the same on all Siglent scopes, but the screenshots SDS5034X in this topic show that there is another much better looking version.

I pasted the logo from SDS5034X to a screenshot from SDS1000X-E. Just compare the two versions and see the difference.

Question to Siglent: would it be possible to change the logo on the SDS1000X-E screen? I know that we are talking about a piece of measurement equipment but if it can look better why not to do it? Aesthetics is also important. This small detail will make the screenshots look more professional and not cheap.

Siglent, thanks for updating the logo. The new one looks much better!

Offline ArcticPhoenix0

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1635 on: March 19, 2020, 01:15:02 am »
Not sure if this is because it's hacked or the new firmware but my 1104X-E thinks it's either 2079 or 1979 according to screenshots.
 

Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1636 on: April 07, 2020, 05:00:26 pm »
Hello SDS1104X-E Users,

Because the fan of my SDS1104X-E is quite loud I want to replace it.
I have loosened the four screws of the backcover but I cannot open it.
The bottom is slightly loose but the top is not.
Does anyone have a solution for this problem? :-\


Many thanks in advance!
 

Offline diodak

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1637 on: April 07, 2020, 06:52:46 pm »
Maybe drawing and description on pages 58 and 59 will help something:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/SDS1000X-E/SDS1000X-E_ServiceManual_SM0101E-E01A.pdf
I'm also going to replace the fan but I'm afraid that it can change little. The problem is the inlet shapes. At least that's what others say. You may need to reduce the voltage supplying the fan.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 06:58:09 pm by diodak »
 
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Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1638 on: April 07, 2020, 08:00:01 pm »
Diodak thanks for your answer!

The 'problem'  were 2 cams on the topcorners (L and R) that were quite stuck.
With a tool for opening watches, I finally loosened the back.
I replaced the fan with the German-made NoiseBlocker XR-2 (60x60x25mm) sold by Conrad.
This makes a lot less noise.
I compared the removed original and replacement fans by connecting them to an adjustable power supply.
The replacement is a lot quieter and it is noticeable that the noise level strongly increases from both 10Volt.
Lowering the supply voltage is of course a possibility, but the cooling must also be sufficient.
An idea for Siglent: make the voltage to the fan dependent on the cabinet temperature. That would make a big difference! :)

Doidak, Good luck adjusting the fan and enjoy the scope!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 11:26:13 am by Willem2018 »
 

Offline diodak

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1639 on: April 08, 2020, 04:18:36 pm »
Lowering the supply voltage is of course a possibility, but the cooling must also be sufficient.
An idea for Siglent: make the voltage to the fan dependent on the cabinet temperature. That would make a big difference! :)
The idea of reducing the voltage results from the assumed operating temperature for SDS1000X-E, in this case max 40C. Since I have a max in the room 25 / 28C I can reduce the air flow.

And as for the idea of adjusting voltage from temperature - I think it would be too easy. A simple temostat should be made more here. So that temperature changes do not cause significant voltage drift from the input blocks.

What was the original fan type / manufacturer? I am going to use Sunon MF60251V2-1000U-A99.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1640 on: April 08, 2020, 05:43:57 pm »
What was the original fan type / manufacturer? I am going to use Sunon MF60251V2-1000U-A99.
2018 stock fan pic attached. 2 wire unit, rare warranty replacement.

Edit to add
From SDS1104X-E SN# SDSMMDBC2R****



Added to keep together:
My SN# range is: SDSMMDBC2R****


« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 07:45:51 pm by tautech »
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Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1641 on: April 08, 2020, 07:08:49 pm »
Photo from the original fan attached.
 

Offline diodak

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1642 on: April 08, 2020, 07:34:09 pm »
Thank you for providing model names. So they are similar but not the same:
DFM6025S 17.4 CFM / 24.6dBA / 2.56mm H2O / 0.11A
PAAD16025SL 17.1 CFM / 26dBA / 3.99mm H2O / 0.15A
Proposed Sunon:
MF60251V2-1000U-A99 19.3 CFM / 22dBA / 3.81mm H2O / 0.072A
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1643 on: April 08, 2020, 07:56:10 pm »
An idea for Siglent: make the voltage to the fan dependent on the cabinet temperature. That would make a big difference! :)

Alternatively you could use a papst vario fan.
It allows internal and external temperature control via ntc resistor.

Offline Willem2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1644 on: April 09, 2020, 12:14:17 pm »
My SN# range is: SDSMMDBC2R****
 

Offline CiscERsang

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1645 on: April 09, 2020, 12:48:47 pm »

An idea for Siglent: make the voltage to the fan dependent on the cabinet temperature. That would make a big difference! :)


It is useless idea because air flow quantity going through heatsinks must not depend on outer (cabinet) temperature at  all. Due to different load of core while
working in different modes.
Moreover, we're considering that existing cooling system is at the edge of its efficiency.
  • it must depend on core's internal temperarure. Siglent's guys should set some sort of PiD system and keep cores temperature that prevents it from hanging.
  • usage of less noisy ventilator is appreciated

Well, who wants to get oscilloscope being hanging. No problem, follow the advice "dependency on outer (cabinet) temperature."  :palm:

« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 03:03:55 pm by CiscERsang »
 

Offline diodak

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1646 on: April 09, 2020, 08:33:44 pm »
Today I started changing the fan. My guess was confirmed. The fan is important but also the shape of the inlet (shape of the cutouts in the housing). Fans with a large diameter of the blade mounting part perform better in this model. So the fan blades should be short. Then the shape of the inlet less affects the noise.

My fan (MF60251V2-1000U-A99) is quiet but when placed on the housing it becomes loud. I solved this by reducing the voltage to 7.5V (I added a 100R resistor). I checked how strongly the air was blown out. I did it by hand so it is inaccurate. However, in my attempts it came out that the Sunon MF60251V2-1000U-A99 at 7.5V blows just as much as the original at 12V.

In my model SDS1104X-E there is also a PAAD16025SL fan and the serial number starts with SDSMMDBC2Rxxxx
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1647 on: April 09, 2020, 08:52:32 pm »
Today I started changing the fan. My guess was confirmed. The fan is important but also the shape of the inlet (shape of the cutouts in the housing). Fans with a large diameter of the blade mounting part perform better in this model. So the fan blades should be short. Then the shape of the inlet less affects the noise.

My fan (MF60251V2-1000U-A99) is quiet but when placed on the housing it becomes loud. I solved this by reducing the voltage to 7.5V (I added a 100R resistor). I checked how strongly the air was blown out. I did it by hand so it is inaccurate. However, in my attempts it came out that the Sunon MF60251V2-1000U-A99 at 7.5V blows just as much as the original at 12V.

In my model SDS1104X-E there is also a PAAD16025SL fan and the serial number starts with SDSMMDBC2Rxxxx
I don't believe anyone has rubber mounted the stock fan and if there is room I would suggest strips of ~1mm thick rubber from the likes of a bicycle inner tube.
It may not even be necessary to replace the stock fan.
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Offline diodak

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1648 on: April 09, 2020, 08:56:04 pm »
I forgot to write. I added a special washer to the fan. It has the symbol FGA-60 and is produced by Richco. In my opinion, its addition does not change much with PAAD16025SL ...
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1649 on: April 09, 2020, 09:17:41 pm »
Apart from all:
We got a siglent SDS1104X-E at work, our colleague from R&D use it in his office and the noise level seems to me (and him) nearly quiet - Maybe you got a defective one ? (what the fan concerns)



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