Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 314031 times)

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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1850 on: December 08, 2020, 03:30:15 pm »


It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.

How useful is this talking and wondering if you do not believe or listen anything what is said about it.


If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1851 on: December 08, 2020, 04:09:20 pm »
On a slow time base it is very possible to have it trigger on a pulse (2.5V, 32 nS) without seeing it happen on screen. Using a very simple edge trigger.

It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.
That is why there exists peak detect mode. It will show those peaks..
I just figured that one out by myself as well :D
Just before I thought it was only a way of displaying underlying data. Now I know why the aquisition needs to be redone.
Now I wonder, does it need twice the memory..? Will look it up, because it is not relevant to the issue.
B.t.w. I know I'm lacking technical knowledge regarding this scope, I see myself more like a user. But the question is how much knowledge will be needed to pinpoint the issue some more. I think experiments are propably more important. I'm also not yet fully engaged in this issue (yet), but I don't dislike to finding "truth" with very little information. For instance I know now why going on a "slower sampling speed" will not induce comparable behavior. Which might together with the non analog trigger already be enough technical info.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 11:27:58 am by HendriXML »
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1852 on: December 08, 2020, 04:43:19 pm »
On a slow time base it is very possible to have it trigger on a pulse (2.5V, 32 nS) without seeing it happen on screen. Using a very simple edge trigger.

It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.
That is why there exists peak detect mode. It will show those peaks..
I just figured that one out by myself as well :D
Just before I thought it was only a way of displaying underlying data. Now I know why the aquisition needs to be redone.
Now I wonder, does it need twice the memory..? Will look it up, because it is not relevant to the issue.
B.t.w. I know I'm lacking technical knowledge regarding this scope, I see myself more like a user. But the question is how much knowledge will be needed to pinpoint the issue some more. I think experiments are propably more important. I'm also not yet fully engaged in this issue (yet), but I don't dislike to finding "thruth" with very little information. For instance I know now why going on a "slower sampling speed" will not induce comparable behavior. Which might together with the non analog trigger already be enough technical info.

No need for twice the memory. Peak detect happens only when decimating data, in which you keep one point, discard next 9.. You just decimated by 10x. If you look at those 10 points and keep largest value from them, you just did peak detect. If you keep min and max, you get envelope detect, that one will have twice the data...

As for facts and beliefs, there are facts that are common sense, there facts that come from people who work with it so they know, and there is information coming from speculations that need to be verified. Not every thing need to be always proved from first principles..

Complex triggers can have bugs that won't show at certain timebases, if for not other reason, they might have temporal conditions, that might have bugs in calculations and scaling...
 

Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1853 on: December 08, 2020, 05:30:23 pm »
Okay so no negative peaks, like minimals..

About the facts. I might have skipped the digital trigger (vs analog) trigger post.. Got some brain damage, so reading and processing information is a bit impaired.
So my remark:
Truth or fact is not about how many times one says something..  :o
Was more a general remark, not a disbelief in what was said (which I didn't read).

But either way: in this situation that fact should be traced to its roots. If rf-loop is that root of knowledge than :-+.

There's more to say but I'll leave it like this.
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1854 on: December 08, 2020, 08:37:35 pm »
Okay so no negative peaks, like minimals..

About the facts. I might have skipped the digital trigger (vs analog) trigger post.. Got some brain damage, so reading and processing information is a bit impaired.
So my remark:
Truth or fact is not about how many times one says something..  :o
Was more a general remark, not a disbelief in what was said (which I didn't read).

But either way: in this situation that fact should be traced to its roots. If rf-loop is that root of knowledge than :-+.

There's more to say but I'll leave it like this.

Peak detect mode is extrema, positive and negative. Commercial names for functions are not necessarily mathematically correct..
We all have our problems and coping strategies. Will to do it right is only thing important. So in the end, only time needed is different, but results are same and correct.

For Siglent equipment, users RF-loop and Preforma01 are authoritative source.. Also Tautech (he's Siglent dealer) have lots of information, and what he doesn't know he can usually ask Siglent and get back quality info..
There are also about dozen other users that are very knowledgeable and have various Siglent  equipment that are good source of info..

Regards,
 
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1855 on: December 08, 2020, 09:01:00 pm »
Now there's even more to say but I'll leave it like this otherwise things could side track some more. :-X

Regards as well  :-+
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Offline DEV001

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1856 on: December 09, 2020, 12:22:49 am »
rf-loops analysis and writeup on the SDS1104X-E is what motivated me to purchase it.  :-+

He shows the real world data for the scope and his reports are 1000x better than the actual Siglent official documentation IMO.
 
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1857 on: December 09, 2020, 12:59:20 am »
It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.

How useful is this talking and wondering if you do not believe or listen anything what is said about it.
A quick response on this is still required. While I was wondering and creating screen shots, my guess was already confirmed. It might than seem stubborn to then still call it probable, but the posts just crossed each other.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 01:22:53 am by HendriXML »
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1858 on: December 09, 2020, 01:09:36 am »
rf-loops analysis and writeup on the SDS1104X-E is what motivated me to purchase it.  :-+

He shows the real world data for the scope and his reports are 1000x better than the actual Siglent official documentation IMO.
Yes, very wise and experienced old EE and communicates exceptionally well considering his mother tongue is Finnish not English.  :o
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1859 on: December 09, 2020, 02:23:14 am »
It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.

How useful is this talking and wondering if you do not believe or listen anything what is said about it.
A quick response on this is still required. While I was wondering and creating screen shots, my guess was already confirmed. It might than seem stubborn to then still call it probable, but the posts just crossed each other.

Self learning and making own tests and thinking these is of course very good. And it is nice to see some peoples do, example you. I see you do lot of work for "know your test instrument" what is always important for better results when use it and also for understand what it display - and also importantly - what not.

Also some times in my life I have seen "stupid" speculations or some simple adverse or "wrong" question have open road to solve problem...  so..  also method "negation test" is very important basic tool in problem solving.



This is not personal.

For all.

About SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E  there is huge set of information. Partially very deep information.
Of course after 2017 many things have changed bit due to FW updates and also there is perhaps some small questionable details but overall amazing good source for knowledge how this works. @Performa01 have done lot of work for this.
Long time I have not read these and do not know how up to date these are but basic fundamentals have not changed.
Some times it is good to pop up this thread due to its valued information.

It is here
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1371771/#msg1371771
Siglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review

Starting from first message there is downloadable pdf  review documents  over 170 pages full of tests details and knowledge.
It is useful to read for everyone who is bit more intersted about "how my instrument works"

Other place is one thread what is some kind of introduction about 2nd generation BodePlot  what these scopes have today. (after this very first bit poor version) but it is other thing and do not belong under "how oscilloscope work" it belongs to "How SFRA" works what is totally different animal but in same box.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/?action=dlattach;attach=397073
SDS1104X-E Review 1-25.pdf


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/?action=dlattach;attach=397074
SDS1104X-E Review 26-50.pdf

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/?action=dlattach;attach=397075
SDS1000X-E Bandwidth.pdf

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/?action=dlattach;attach=397077
 SDS1104X-E Review 70-93.pdf

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/?action=dlattach;attach=397078
SDS1104X-E Review 93-108.pdf

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/?action=dlattach;attach=397079
SDS1104X-E Review 109-137.pdf

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/?action=dlattach;attach=397080
SDS1104X-E Review 137-162.pdf

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/?action=dlattach;attach=397081
SDS1104X-E Review 163-174.pdf

« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 02:27:43 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline ballen

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1860 on: December 09, 2020, 04:25:10 am »
It is explained bit more but unfortunately "scrambled by natural enigma". Our "enigma" is our Finnish language what is said is second difficult after Chinese in world. 
In some images there is some english/finglish explanations. But more deep text explanations just with Finnish.
https://siglent.fi/oskilloskooppi-tietoa-sds1004x-e--wfm-speed.html

I am slowly reading through this with help from Google translate.  It's very helpful, thank you for writing it!

PS: there is a typo in the second (all yellow) table shown in Figure 1, in the line with t/div= 1ms.  Column 6 contains 1G sa/s. It should read 1M sa/s.

Typing mistake corrected, thank you.

Something that would be very useful for me would be a block diagram of the scope.  This would help me to construct a good internal model for what it's doing.  Just a page or two back you posted a nice block diagram showing the input front end, the DAC for offsets, the ADC feeding the triggering system, but then it gets less precise.  Is there a more complete block diagram that shows the acquisition/history/sequence/frame system in some detail?

A few questions regarding the sampling/trigger system: is the ADC always running at 1Gs/sec then decimating afterwards?  Is the decimation done before or after the triggering system?  When decimating can the scope keep/store more than 8 bits in memory?  For example when the scope is acquiring data at 4Msa/a (decimation by factor of 256) in principle one could add the 256 8-bit values to get 16 bit resolution. 

 

Offline ballen

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1861 on: December 09, 2020, 04:35:38 am »
This post crossed the above one... in which my guess is already confirmed

In your post you included a screen dump ("settings.png") showing the scope settings?  If there is a simple way to produce this?  Or did you do it by hand?  If there's a simple way to make such a dump, please tell me how, it will be useful the next time I want to ask about behaviour which I don't understand.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1862 on: December 09, 2020, 06:31:13 am »
This post crossed the above one... in which my guess is already confirmed

In your post you included a screen dump ("settings.png") showing the scope settings?  If there is a simple way to produce this?  Or did you do it by hand?  If there's a simple way to make such a dump, please tell me how, it will be useful the next time I want to ask about behaviour which I don't understand.
Knowing HendriXML's advanced SCPI use I'd say he's written a little script.
Check out some of his threads to see what he's been getting up to with his Siglent equipment.  ;)
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1863 on: December 09, 2020, 07:48:03 am »
It is explained bit more but unfortunately "scrambled by natural enigma". Our "enigma" is our Finnish language what is said is second difficult after Chinese in world. 
In some images there is some english/finglish explanations. But more deep text explanations just with Finnish.
https://siglent.fi/oskilloskooppi-tietoa-sds1004x-e--wfm-speed.html

I am slowly reading through this with help from Google translate.  It's very helpful, thank you for writing it!

PS: there is a typo in the second (all yellow) table shown in Figure 1, in the line with t/div= 1ms.  Column 6 contains 1G sa/s. It should read 1M sa/s.

Typing mistake corrected, thank you.

Something that would be very useful for me would be a block diagram of the scope.  This would help me to construct a good internal model for what it's doing.  Just a page or two back you posted a nice block diagram showing the input front end, the DAC for offsets, the ADC feeding the triggering system, but then it gets less precise.  Is there a more complete block diagram that shows the acquisition/history/sequence/frame system in some detail?

A few questions regarding the sampling/trigger system: is the ADC always running at 1Gs/sec then decimating afterwards?  Is the decimation done before or after the triggering system?  When decimating can the scope keep/store more than 8 bits in memory?  For example when the scope is acquiring data at 4Msa/a (decimation by factor of 256) in principle one could add the 256 8-bit values to get 16 bit resolution.

There is not this like of functional "block diagram" what also somehow give imagination what user then see when he is using scope.
Also I miss this kind of block diagram not for me but for perhaps for user guidance and counseling.
What I have is just my own made some kind of teaching "flip chart" material in mind what need also explanations by talking when show these images... but they are as they are now. There is some what give rough imagine about sequence, history  and so on but they only give very rough basic fuzzy imagine what is going on there.

Quote
is the ADC always running at 1Gs/sec then decimating afterwards?

No but yes...

If scope have some special mode it is least possible ADC run some of its lower speed. But example in 1000X-E/U ADC work always full speed what is 1GSa/s in interleaved mode and 500MSa/s in "non interleaved" mode.
There is 1 ADC for 2 channels.  When only one is in use ADC run in interleaved mode 1GSa/s, always afaik.
When both channels in use it run "non interleaved" mode and samplerate is 500MSa/s .
(now need remember that if second channel pair ADCserve 2 channels it force also otherchannel pair ADC 500MSa/s.

Note: Also 500MSa/s "non interleaved" mode is interleaved but because this X-E model use it only in 1 or 2 channel mode it can somehow think is is non interleaved. But if look bit more deep it is also interleaved. 1 ADC what is HMCAD1511 have 4x250MSa/s ADC. (example in Rigol 1000Z ADC is shared for all channels and full speed rates are 1Gsa, 500MSa and 250MSa/s. Same "full" samplerates are now also in Siglent X-U)


In Siglent data sheet is one mystery what I hit just short time ago. and I do not know if it is typemistake or what it is. I will later try get more deep info... except if example Performa01 know and see this.
X-U data sheet:  Peak detect 2ns.
X-E data sheeet:   4 channels models 2ns, 2 channel models 4ns. Weird. If they are opposite, still weird. Why they are different I do not have idea.


These are two true full speeds in 1000X-E models.
It need note that if example turn one channel in use, time scale for 1ms/div and memory is 14M  it use 1GSa/s full speed. If change to 2ms/div it drops to 500MSa/s  and in this case ADC still run 1GSa/s so this  500MSa/s is not full speed 500MSa/s but this is  decimated 500MSa/s.

As far as I know. Trigger system get always ADC full speed samplerate 1GSa or 500MSa/s.  When ever it decimate, it happen after main part of trigger system. If there is decimated samplerate 500MSa/s then every second sample is dropped.

In these 1000 models, in memory is always only 8bit raw ADC data. If with 1GSa/s ADC decimated (and displayed) samplerate is 5MSa/s in mean that it take 1 sample and drop away 199 samples. It do not look what is "best" sample or what is average in this 200 samples group. Stored byte is just this byte what is every 200th byte in order in queue. This in normal mode.
In Peak detect mode it look what is highest in decimation "group" (example in this 200 sample group) and take this one to acq. memory (and loose it time position in original ADC data.).

SDS2000XPlus is different. It can produce more than 8bit in high resolution mode and of course it then consume also more memory.

So in short.
ADC work always full speed what depends how many channels in use.
Trigger engine listen this non decimated ADC stream.
If need decimate, it happen after then before acquisition memory what have always 8bit level information.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 07:55:01 am by rf-loop »
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1864 on: December 09, 2020, 10:47:24 am »
This post crossed the above one... in which my guess is already confirmed

In your post you included a screen dump ("settings.png") showing the scope settings?  If there is a simple way to produce this?  Or did you do it by hand?  If there's a simple way to make such a dump, please tell me how, it will be useful the next time I want to ask about behaviour which I don't understand.
Its something a script that I made does. It syncs inifile settings using scpi commands. Essentially parameters have actual / requested values. Requested values are read from ini settings (as shown). Actual values are read from the scope. If requested value is different then actual it is synced with the scope. (Checking if its different makes it a lot faster) Also the requested value (or in absence of it the actual value) is written as an ini setting. So at the end the output contains the most important settings of the scope. This output is easy to read, but can also be used to restore the scopes settings the next time.
The script can handle more tasks like creating a screen dumps, saving the wave data to xml files. Eventually it will also be able to sync settings with my awg and psu, so its very easy to document and restore an experimental setup. I've thought about making it available, but "supporting" it would unfortunately take too much effort.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 12:04:47 pm by HendriXML »
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Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1865 on: December 10, 2020, 01:15:35 am »
Weird.  The noise source seems to have disappeared, at least for now.  End result is that the issue doesn't reproduce right now.  I did manage to get a nice capture of it reproducing once with full bandwidth (i.e., no noise filtering anywhere), 1GS/s, and 14Mpoints memory depth, and saved everything including the setup.  I'm now running it with full bandwidth and 500MS/s with channel 1 enabled but configured to not show on the screen (recall that I'm using channel 2 for the waveform capture), and we'll see if the noise source comes back and the issue reproduces once again.

Seems the setup file is an XML file, and it seems to contain everything, including trigger settings.  Means it's possible for someone who knows what the values mean to interpret it.  And presumably, you can restore your scope settings from the file in order to see for yourself exactly what the settings were.

In any case, I'm going to create an archive with everything I got from the last reproduction attempt, which includes the settings, a couple of screenshots (one with the mask shown and one with the mask not shown), the binary data, and the full CSV file, and upload that to my Box account, and then share the link to it here so that anyone who's interested in looking at it can check it out.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 01:32:52 am by kcbrown »
 
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Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1866 on: December 10, 2020, 01:41:56 am »
OK, here's the link to the 7-zip archive containing the data for the last reproduction of the issue: https://app.box.com/s/ciq2s35embv450slixr79tn2rg13ylil

Let me know if you have trouble getting to it and I'll see what I can do.

If you would like me to, I'll be happy to edit this message to include the screenshots, but the archive does contain them.

Here's the contents:

Code: [Select]
kevin@ubuntu:/tmp$ 7z l /tmp/FULLBW-1GS.7z

7-Zip [64] 16.02 : Copyright (c) 1999-2016 Igor Pavlov : 2016-05-21
p7zip Version 16.02 (locale=en_US.UTF-8,Utf16=on,HugeFiles=on,64 bits,8 CPUs Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v2 @ 2.80GHz (306E4),ASM,AES-NI)

Scanning the drive for archives:
1 file, 7057584 bytes (6893 KiB)

Listing archive: /tmp/FULLBW-1GS.7z

--
Path = /tmp/FULLBW-1GS.7z
Type = 7z
Physical Size = 7057584
Headers Size = 322
Method = LZMA2:24
Solid = +
Blocks = 1

   Date      Time    Attr         Size   Compressed  Name
------------------- ----- ------------ ------------  ------------------------
2020-12-09 19:35:30 D....            0            0  FULLBW-1GS
1979-12-31 18:00:00 ....A     14002048      7057262  FULLBW-1GS/Binnary.bin
1979-12-31 18:00:00 ....A    392000339               FULLBW-1GS/CSV.csv
2020-12-09 19:35:30 ....A         1155               FULLBW-1GS/README.txt
2020-12-09 19:30:44 ....A         1099               FULLBW-1GS/README.txt~
1979-12-31 18:00:00 ....A        16422               FULLBW-1GS/SDS00001.png
1979-12-31 18:00:00 ....A        19629               FULLBW-1GS/SDS00002.png
1979-12-31 18:00:00 ....A        79986               FULLBW-1GS/Setup.xml
------------------- ----- ------------ ------------  ------------------------
2020-12-09 19:35:30          406120678      7057262  7 files, 1 folders


As a side note, I must say that 7-zip is rather impressive in terms of its compression capabilities.  It compresses the contents of the archive down to 7 megabytes.  "Zip" compressed it to 42 megabytes.  That's a 6-fold difference.   :o
 
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1867 on: December 10, 2020, 12:52:53 pm »
Made a script that decimated the wave into 2 seperated ones (to make it managable), one with mins, other with maxs. Both are plotted in Excel.
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1868 on: December 10, 2020, 01:18:49 pm »
On the time axis Excel missed the decimal so I made a new one, with a 0.5 .. 1.5 ms time window.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 01:42:07 pm by HendriXML »
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1869 on: December 10, 2020, 01:22:51 pm »
While not zoomin as well... :P
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1870 on: December 10, 2020, 02:35:43 pm »
Simply. Signal what is available from acquistion memory do not contain any single thing what explain that this waveform is "trigged" and displayed.
-------

Still one question even you have once answered this but I hope more exactly.

Have you looked more long time that if you turn 20MHz BW filter on then it never do this in this test setup or is it so that it do but much more rarely. If it totally stop this fail it is one important finding.

More and more I feel this is perhaps some kind of bug.  But BW on/off may lead to 2 different main chain of reasoning if it totally stop this failure exist or if it just make it only more rare. If it only make it small amount more rare then it is nearly nonsense.

How it is?
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1871 on: December 10, 2020, 03:54:49 pm »
It should trigger, only not that location, non?

Maybe there're 2 different parts that analyse the waveform, the first one that is correct. And a second pass which has failing logic, which shifts the trigger location.

A good test would be a signal that shouldn't trigger at all.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 04:14:16 pm by HendriXML »
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Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1872 on: December 10, 2020, 04:14:29 pm »
I did some line drawing in a paint app, and it seem it shouldn't trigger at all, but it's close. (I don't know how the hysteresis should work.., so maybe it should anyways)

If the trigger logic is known (with hysteresis) it could be brought into a script and have it "watch" for a trigger event using the same data.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 04:19:43 pm by HendriXML »
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Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1873 on: December 10, 2020, 07:13:29 pm »
Simply. Signal what is available from acquistion memory do not contain any single thing what explain that this waveform is "trigged" and displayed.
-------

Still one question even you have once answered this but I hope more exactly.

Have you looked more long time that if you turn 20MHz BW filter on then it never do this in this test setup or is it so that it do but much more rarely. If it totally stop this fail it is one important finding.

I left it running for considerably longer than it generally took to reproduce without the filter on, but perhaps not long enough.  I'll be happy to turn the filter on and leave it running for however long you like.  So: how long would you like me to run the test with the 20MHz bandwidth enabled?


Quote
More and more I feel this is perhaps some kind of bug.  But BW on/off may lead to 2 different main chain of reasoning if it totally stop this failure exist or if it just make it only more rare. If it only make it small amount more rare then it is nearly nonsense.

How it is?

It's a good question.  Just let me know how long you'd like me to run the test for and I'll be happy to do it.

Also, what additional conditions, if any, would you like for the test?   500MS/s non-interleaved (which means I'd turn on channel 1)?  I normally run tests like this at 1GS/s because it allows for finer granularity of the resulting acquisition.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 07:15:44 pm by kcbrown »
 

Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1874 on: December 10, 2020, 07:41:18 pm »
The noise source came back, so I was able to reproduce the issue again, this time with 500MS/s non-interleaved capture (by enabling channel 1 and putting it into "hidden" mode).  Here's the archive with the data for that: https://app.box.com/s/ubr1g01hp497u4rbj39kj5b2ldm9beek
 


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