Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 304305 times)

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Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1950 on: December 16, 2020, 08:12:25 am »
I would like to just add: There should be ( on any scope that does decode/trigger from serial protocols ) a button "copy this decoded frame to trigger".
You look around the list, find interesting packet , select and copy it to trigger.... That would be huuge timesaver...
Sorry for the tangent...

No worries, that's a great idea!   Here's hoping Siglent will consider it.

Of course, it'll be even better in conjunction with a trigger mechanism that works completely correctly.    ;D
 

Online thaistatos

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1951 on: December 16, 2020, 08:16:39 am »


Quote
With SDS1202X-E firmware revision 1.3.23 (or 7.0.1.3.23 seen on scope 'system' screen), the 'Link to Trigger' button on the DECODE page 2 has been changed to 'Copy Setting.'  This adds the ability to not only link the DECODE to the trigger ('Copy To Trig'), but to link the trigger to the DECODE (Copy From Trig).  Both options are on a submenu of 'Copy Setting.'

Does this help?
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1952 on: December 16, 2020, 08:33:54 am »


Quote
With SDS1202X-E firmware revision 1.3.23 (or 7.0.1.3.23 seen on scope 'system' screen), the 'Link to Trigger' button on the DECODE page 2 has been changed to 'Copy Setting.'  This adds the ability to not only link the DECODE to the trigger ('Copy To Trig'), but to link the trigger to the DECODE (Copy From Trig).  Both options are on a submenu of 'Copy Setting.'

Does this help?

As far as I know that copies only setting (levels, channels etc). It won't copy address/data of the packet, would it?
 

Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1953 on: December 16, 2020, 11:01:25 pm »
Just in case the issue was with the signal and not with the trigger, I tested the address trigger problem with the digital channels.  I get the same result.  Triggering on i2c 7-bit addresses simply does not work at all.

Can someone here replicate this issue?  Seeing how i2c is a multi-address bus, it seems like a significant problem for address triggering to not work at all.
 

Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1954 on: December 17, 2020, 08:46:26 am »
Aha!   Figured it out.

It wasn't a problem with the trigger, it was a problem with the decoder!

The actual address on the bus is 0x27, not 0x4e.

I reset the scope (hard powered it off and let it boot back up) and set things back up, and now it's working properly.  And so is the decoder.

I don't know why there was that discrepancy, but things like this can happen.

Anyway, please disregard the previous, unless you'd like me to supply the raw data (which I saved) so you can see it for yourself.  I guess next time I'm going to have to examine the signal properties myself to see if the decoder is doing things right.

Sorry for the false alarm.   :(


I suppose the moral of the story is: if you think you've found a bug in the scope, the first thing you should do is reboot the thing.  A soft shutdown and startup probably won't do the trick for that.  In this case, I pushed the power button until it turned off "hard" (works the same as it does on laptops), and then powered it back up.  The scope came back up in its default state, after which I configured it from scratch, and that pretty much took care of the problem.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 08:55:44 am by kcbrown »
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1955 on: December 17, 2020, 11:01:08 am »
Good to hear it's OK now, and nice of you for reporting it back...
I usually say that user error is best type of problem, because it's easiest to solve...
It's always best for everybody, including the source of error... :-DD
 

Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1956 on: December 17, 2020, 06:12:58 pm »
Good to hear it's OK now, and nice of you for reporting it back...
I usually say that user error is best type of problem, because it's easiest to solve...
It's always best for everybody, including the source of error... :-DD

Yep.

Now, in my defense, I don't believe this to be pure user error, because I was getting exactly the same thing on the digital channels, and the trigger will not fire at all if you have the channels reversed.  In this case, the trigger would fire if the address was set to "don't care".  It's just that the address seen by the decoder (0x4e) was clearly not the address that would allow the trigger to fire.  As such, this clearly wasn't a case of doing something dumb like reversing the leads.  Nor does the signal look any different now, with it working, than it did when it wasn't working, at least that I can tell through inspection.

And you can see in the screenshots that the decoder clearly showed the address as 4e.

It would be one thing if the digital channels showed something different from the analog channels, but they showed the exact same thing.

Fortunately, a hard reboot of the scope took care of the issue.  I tend to leave electronic equipment like my computers, and like this scope, running continuously.  This tends to result in "bit rot" bugs showing themselves in one way or another.   This seems to have been an instance of that.

Anyway, all's well that ends well.  It'll be interesting to see if this issue resurfaces.
 
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Offline 2112

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1957 on: December 22, 2020, 01:00:01 am »
Is there a best USB memory stick size for storing data? Has anyone experienced issues with one too large, say 2T? Would I be better off getting a 32G? Are there particular brands or sizes to avoid?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 01:07:58 am by 2112 »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1958 on: December 22, 2020, 02:14:07 am »
Is there a best USB memory stick size for storing data? Has anyone experienced issues with one too large, say 2T? Would I be better off getting a 32G? Are there particular brands or sizes to avoid?
Not so much for saving stuff to however for uploading stuff like firmware yes you are best to keep to 8GB or less and formatted in FAT32.
Kingston are well respected although I don't have problems with Apacer or Strontium.
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Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1959 on: December 22, 2020, 06:15:40 am »
Now, in my defense, I don't believe this to be pure user error, because I was getting exactly the same thing on the digital channels, and the trigger will not fire at all if you have the channels reversed.  In this case, the trigger would fire if the address was set to "don't care".  It's just that the address seen by the decoder (0x4e) was clearly not the address that would allow the trigger to fire.  As such, this clearly wasn't a case of doing something dumb like reversing the leads.  Nor does the signal look any different now, with it working, than it did when it wasn't working, at least that I can tell through inspection.

After more experimentation, I figured out the reason I had this problem.  It's pure user error.

There's a setting in the decoder configuration called "Include R/W bit".  My problem is that I had it enabled, and had totally forgotten about it (I thought it was for the purposes of display, i.e. show the R/W bit separately or something).  What this option does is to include the R/W bit in the address itself.  0x27 thus becomes 0x4e on a write!

The reason I didn't recognize 0x4e as 0x27 + write is that I naively expected that if the resulting address would include the R/W bit, the address bits of the displayed value would always be the 7 least significant bits and the read/write bit would occupy the MSB.   But it turns out that when the R/W bit is included, it's included as the LSB, and when it's not included the value shown is just the address alone.   This means that the effect is to shift the address one bit left when the R/W bit is included, thus yielding either 0x4e or 0x4f as the address.

Well, now that I understand what's going on, I can say unequivocally that the decoding and triggering system are both functioning perfectly.
 
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Online ExaLab

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1960 on: December 26, 2020, 06:51:29 pm »
Hi friends, I'm a new user of this interesting forum to which I hope to be able to contribute soon.

I recently purchased an SDS1204X-E and as I imagine it happens for many of you when you are getting ready to use a new product, I have focused (and partially stuck...) on a strange behavior of the instrument concerning the noise superimposed to the traces.
What I observe on my unit and which leaves me rather perplexed is that the noise superimposed on some tracks (channel 2 in particular ... the magenta) visibly increases when the related trace is moved from the center of the screen and positioned near the edge (using the vertical positioning knob).
This happens both with all the channels set in the GND position and in more marked mode, with the channels set in DC (or AC)
As you can see from the attached images, the thickness of channel two (magenta) and channel 3 (cyan), visibly increases when the related trace is placed near the edge of the screen.

Can someone check that?
The test is very fast: leave all the bnc inputs free, set all the four channels to 1V/div and to DC coupling, 100uS/div, acquisition normal, full BW and using the vertical positioning knob try to move the tracks near the edge of the screen.
Note: shorting to ground the BNC inputs nothing changes, setting the channels input coupling to GND the anomaly persists in a less marked way (as you can see from the images)
What leaves me stuck and unexplained is why the noise increases by moving the track away from the center and why this problem mainly affects channel two only?

Your help is of fundamental importance to me to understand if it is a HW problem (as I suspect) and therefore ask for the instrument replacement.

Thanks a lot to everyone
 

Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1961 on: December 28, 2020, 09:50:52 am »
Hi friends, I'm a new user of this interesting forum to which I hope to be able to contribute soon.

I recently purchased an SDS1204X-E and as I imagine it happens for many of you when you are getting ready to use a new product, I have focused (and partially stuck...) on a strange behavior of the instrument concerning the noise superimposed to the traces.
What I observe on my unit and which leaves me rather perplexed is that the noise superimposed on some tracks (channel 2 in particular ... the magenta) visibly increases when the related trace is moved from the center of the screen and positioned near the edge (using the vertical positioning knob).
This happens both with all the channels set in the GND position and in more marked mode, with the channels set in DC (or AC)
As you can see from the attached images, the thickness of channel two (magenta) and channel 3 (cyan), visibly increases when the related trace is placed near the edge of the screen.

Before anything else, did you perform the self-calibration on the scope after letting it run for 30 minutes (so that its internal temperature stabilizes)?   If not, please do that first and see if the problem reproduces afterwards.   Self-calibration can be performed by using the utility button, then on the first page of options at the bottom (the right-most box will say "1/4" in it), activate the "Do Self Cal" menu option.   Make sure all inputs are disconnected from the scope before doing that.

I performed the same test on my scope and did not see this issue.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1962 on: December 28, 2020, 10:46:13 am »
Looks that this is now spreaded more than one thread.

Previously here and answered.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg3388926/#msg3388926
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Online ExaLab

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1963 on: December 28, 2020, 11:27:54 pm »
Thank you all!
I will proceed with the self-calibration and let you know the response. An oscilloscope that visibly increases the thickness of the traces when you move them from the center of the screen I had never seen it before ...

See you soon and ... thanks again for the tip!
 

Online ExaLab

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1964 on: December 30, 2020, 12:33:58 am »
I did the self-calibration but nothing has changed!
So, with all 4 channels active (as in my previous reported setup) the issue is still there!

As a kind colleague of yours asked me, I also tried to exclude channels 1 and 4 in order to bring the sample rate to 1Gs / s. In this case the problem on channel 2 (and 3) seems to be much less marked!

Do you think my instrument has a problem? 
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1965 on: December 30, 2020, 12:38:56 am »
I did the self-calibration but nothing has changed!

See here, what he meant:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg3392328/#msg3392328

It would be nice from you, when you could decide by yourself, in which thread you´ll post your problems.
This will help others to react to your posts. ;)

Offline mirror

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1966 on: January 20, 2021, 07:49:19 pm »
Hello,
this is surely a dso beginner question. I own an SDS1204X-E with actual FW 6.1.35R2.
[attachimg=1]
The problem is how can I cut an dedicated time range of the waveform for viewing and save to file from screen e.g. one period of 140ms in this case? The time base allows only the usual coarse granulation - same for zooming. In opposite the position has fine granulation with 2% of the time scale. I tried with remote too  - but it is same behaviour (TIME_DIV 14.2e-3 will be rounded to next value of 10ms).
I thought that if the dso has the points in the memory I can access these points accurate as well.
I made few experiments with segmented aquisition and certain trigger approaches - so far no luck.
Any hint is appreciated.
[attachurl=1]
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1967 on: January 20, 2021, 08:51:02 pm »
Hello,
this is surely a dso beginner question. I own an SDS1204X-E with actual FW 6.1.35R2.
[attachimg=1]
The problem is how can I cut an dedicated time range of the waveform for viewing and save to file from screen e.g. one period of 140ms in this case? The time base allows only the usual coarse granulation - same for zooming. In opposite the position has fine granulation with 2% of the time scale. I tried with remote too  - but it is same behaviour (TIME_DIV 14.2e-3 will be rounded to next value of 10ms).
I thought that if the dso has the points in the memory I can access these points accurate as well.
I made few experiments with segmented aquisition and certain trigger approaches - so far no luck.
Any hint is appreciated.
[attachurl=1]
Welcome to the forum.

I think Zoom mode can do what you need but first you should select a slow timebase and then press the timebase control to enter Zoom mode. When zoomed you can magnify the timebase and pan across the waveform record using the H Pos control which BTW pressing it will return the horizontal trigger point to zero which is what you should probably do first.
Pop some more screenshots up which of course you can get by just pressing the blue Print button and then we can give more guidance if required.
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Offline 4x1md

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1968 on: January 20, 2021, 10:21:00 pm »
Is the firmware still under development? Are any new versions expected in the future?

Offline mirror

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1969 on: January 21, 2021, 10:09:59 am »
Thank you tautech for the kind welcome.

I think it is a kind of misunderstanding. So I want it formulate in another way: The task is to view and to save the data only of one period of any frequency. I think with the coarse horizontal time scale it is not possible as we see in the attached pictures.
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
Me was told that some of the other dso supplier have a kind of fine timebase adjustment. OK - we have not!
So how we can cut of the desired time range from memory?
Thank you.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1970 on: January 21, 2021, 08:51:25 pm »
Thank you tautech for the kind welcome.

I think it is a kind of misunderstanding. So I want it formulate in another way: The task is to view and to save the data only of one period of any frequency. I think with the coarse horizontal time scale it is not possible as we see in the attached pictures.

Me was told that some of the other dso supplier have a kind of fine timebase adjustment. OK - we have not!
So how we can cut of the desired time range from memory?
Thank you.
Correct X-E does not offer a variable timebase however for the signals above 10ms/div comes close to what you want.

Some operational tips if I may:
Earlier I noticed you had mem depth set to 7k where this can be useful for smaller file saves it also limits the scopes capability where I believe you should only select a small memory depth when the need arises.
Horizontal trigger position can be locked at any position you desire so that when making timebase adjustments the H Pos never leaves the display and this will be more convenient when you need to display a single waveform period to fill the display as much as possible.
The feature to do this is in the Utility menu on P3 IIRC.
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Offline rolkev

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1971 on: January 23, 2021, 11:37:36 am »
100 % correct
That was the first thing I noticed after turning on the device.
This is really stupid.
 

Offline rolkev

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1972 on: January 23, 2021, 11:43:46 am »
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?

I did this with my two other DSOs (different brand) and found it to be a great enhancement for me.

More often than not, I manage to cause an unwanted jump in value or selection when pressing the knob.

Maybe, tis is just me...

Regards
Chris

Hello Chris,

Not only you. I will change the Encoder too, as soon as I find one with "soft tooth"

Regards
Volker
 

Offline 4x1md

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1973 on: January 23, 2021, 11:47:29 am »
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?

I did this with my two other DSOs (different brand) and found it to be a great enhancement for me.

More often than not, I manage to cause an unwanted jump in value or selection when pressing the knob.

Maybe, tis is just me...

Regards
Chris

Hello Chris,

Not only you. I will change the Encoder too, as soon as I find one with "soft tooth"

Regards
Volker
Please share the model of the new encoder once you do it. The encoders are one of the biggest flaws of these models.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 02:00:09 pm by 4x1md »
 

Offline mirror

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1974 on: January 23, 2021, 12:35:36 pm »
100 % correct
That was the first thing I noticed after turning on the device.
This is really stupid.

Sorry - what do you mean?
The problem with arbitrary time base resolution I mentioned or the explanations regarding trigger point positioning by tautech?
 


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