Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 181388 times)

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Offline JPortici

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #375 on: November 29, 2017, 07:16:51 pm »
Same principle for the AWG, so why buy the single channel USB AWG that BTW has a limited output range (p-p) if you already have a standalone Siglent AWG  The literature indicates it can control all existing Siglent AWG's, SDG1032X works fine with it, Bode plots and all.
Yes 2 parts for this option makes perfect sense too.

huh, i didn't know that. makes sense i guess
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #376 on: November 29, 2017, 07:19:06 pm »
I think the FG SW option is not a requirement for Bode Plot
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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #377 on: November 29, 2017, 07:36:06 pm »
I think the FG SW option is not a requirement for Bode Plot
Hard to know for sure as new units will have trial licences for all the SW options.
My beta unit has permanent licensing so I can't test this.

Thinking about it, the AWG SW maybe controls the standalone AWG too for Bode plots.
Use a unit without AWG permanent option with standalone AWG , do Bode plot and look for reduction in trial usage #'s.
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Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #378 on: November 29, 2017, 08:17:49 pm »
Same principle for the AWG, so why buy the single channel USB AWG that BTW has a limited output range (p-p) if you already have a standalone Siglent AWG  The literature indicates it can control all existing Siglent AWG's, SDG1032X works fine with it, Bode plots and all.
Yes 2 parts for this option makes perfect sense too.
If it can drive a Siglent AWG that the customer already owns, there should be no extra license to use it.  Siglent should charge only for the AWG Hardware.  It is a really bad marketing decision if they are charging for the software on the scope if it is driving a Siglent AWG.  If it is to drive a non-Siglent AWG, maybe they can charge for it.
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #379 on: November 29, 2017, 09:11:24 pm »
Same principle for the AWG, so why buy the single channel USB AWG that BTW has a limited output range (p-p) if you already have a standalone Siglent AWG  The literature indicates it can control all existing Siglent AWG's, SDG1032X works fine with it, Bode plots and all.
Yes 2 parts for this option makes perfect sense too.
If it can drive a Siglent AWG that the customer already owns, there should be no extra license to use it.  Siglent should charge only for the AWG Hardware.  It is a really bad marketing decision if they are charging for the software on the scope if it is driving a Siglent AWG. 
Good point.
Let's see how this develops, maybe that will be revised.

Quote
If it is to drive a non-Siglent AWG, maybe they can charge for it.
Maybe ?  :-//
It's very unlikely command protocols will work with other brands.

When doing Bode plots the AWG is swept through many frequencies/second so commands must be correct.
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Offline IAmBack

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #380 on: November 29, 2017, 10:37:12 pm »
a very nice thing keysight 3000x can do compared to scopes in simillar and lower class is that it can decode CAN and apply a dbc file to the decoded data (so ID 0xABCD will read as "Engine ECU #1" for example)
can this siglent or any siglent do that? makes it a lot easier to interpret data before going to a canbus analyzer... (if none can, please appropriate people, take note..)

by the way i was looking at simone's video



liking what i'm seeing so far..
It'd be nice to look at some high speed SPI and see how good/bad is it when reducing the timebase. I'd be happy to test it myself or bring a board to test but i have no reason to come to bologna before the new year, i'm busy all weekends... (well i'll probably be there at new year's but no work, all play :) )
Please feel free to come to visit us!
Could You please show us, how 100M and 200M units display the same signal (eg. 25/50/75M square wave)?
I'm thinking about one of these, but I'm not sure how much 200M in reality differs from 100M...
 

Offline hexpope

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #381 on: November 30, 2017, 12:08:47 am »
I just ordered one from the EU, I am wondering and can't figure it out. Can you have a gen function on one of the outputs with a software license only or do you have to buy the license and the hardware module to have wave gen?
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #382 on: November 30, 2017, 12:35:33 am »
I just ordered one from the EU, I am wondering and can't figure it out. Can you have a gen function on one of the outputs with a software license only or do you have to buy the license and the hardware module to have wave gen?
There is NO inbuilt AWG. The optional 25 MHz external AWG is USB powered and controlled by the scope. For this you need buy the HW and SW.

You can see it on this link near the bottom of the page on the right.
http://www.siglenteu.com/pdxx.aspx?id=2771&T=2&tid=1

So if you already have a Siglent SDG**** AWG then you would only need to buy the AWG SW option.
Edit.
Above last sentence is true for Bode plot usage only, not general Siglent AWG control usage.


Please see reply #386
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 04:05:26 am by tautech »
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #383 on: November 30, 2017, 01:41:43 am »
a very nice thing keysight 3000x can do compared to scopes in simillar and lower class is that it can decode CAN and apply a dbc file to the decoded data (so ID 0xABCD will read as "Engine ECU #1" for example)
can this siglent or any siglent do that? makes it a lot easier to interpret data before going to a canbus analyzer... (if none can, please appropriate people, take note..)

by the way i was looking at simone's video



liking what i'm seeing so far..
It'd be nice to look at some high speed SPI and see how good/bad is it when reducing the timebase. I'd be happy to test it myself or bring a board to test but i have no reason to come to bologna before the new year, i'm busy all weekends... (well i'll probably be there at new year's but no work, all play :) )
Please feel free to come to visit us!
Could You please show us, how 100M and 200M units display the same signal (eg. 25/50/75M square wave)?
I'm thinking about one of these, but I'm not sure how much 200M in reality differs from 100M...
Above is very poor connection techniques to even attempt to show signal fidelity.
Some lessons can be learnt from this thread on the pitfalls of displaying square waves.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/

For reference a screenshot from the above video.


Compare with:
SDG1032X, 20 MHz, cheap Siglent BNC cable and terminated into also cheapish Pintek 50 \$\Omega\$ 2GHz feedthrough.
Scope SDS1104X-E 100 MHz


Edit to add.
I have always used Tek 1x 50 \$\Omega\$ BNC feedthrough but a new Pintek one bought recently offers less square wave attenuation so is now my first choice.
http://www.pintek.com.tw/product_detail/landersound/index.php?Product_SN=19282&PHPSESSID=344qv7ar5g7s19evvgtktt76l4&Company_SN=6002&Product_Site_Classify_SN=17075
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 07:27:08 pm by tautech »
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Offline alreadystarted

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #384 on: November 30, 2017, 02:34:21 am »
So if you already have a Siglent SDG**** AWG then you would only need to buy the AWG SW option.
Edit.
Above last sentence is true for Bode plot usage only, not general Siglent AWG control usage.

That's really disappointing to have to purchase the software license even if you already have a Siglent AWG, those are not cheap.  I see the license price is $109, seems like a heavy punishment for existing customers.

Edit: This may be incorrect.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 03:50:59 am by alreadystarted »
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #385 on: November 30, 2017, 03:13:31 am »
So if you already have a Siglent SDG**** AWG then you would only need to buy the AWG SW option.
Edit.
Above last sentence is true for Bode plot usage only, not general Siglent AWG control usage.

That's really disappointing to have to purchase the software license even if you already have a Siglent AWG, those are not cheap.  I see the license price is $109, seems like a heavy punishment for existing customers.
I mentioned I can't test this to be sure until new stock arrives.

Siglent sent me this:
1. Siglent SDG**** AWG don't need to buy the SW option.
2. SDS1004X-E also can't control the SDG*** AWG.
Only the SAG1021 hardware module can be controlled by SDS1004X-E.


1. I take this to mean any Siglent SDG**** can be used for Bode plot.
2. DSO can only control SDG**** for Bode plot usage.

So it may seem that the AWG SW option is only needed for general AWG usage control of the SAG1021 HW.
Please Siglent confirm.
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Offline alreadystarted

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #386 on: November 30, 2017, 03:56:53 am »
I mentioned I can't test this to be sure until new stock arrives.

Siglent sent me this:
1. Siglent SDG**** AWG don't need to buy the SW option.
2. SDS1004X-E also can't control the SDG*** AWG.
Only the SAG1021 hardware module can be controlled by SDS1004X-E.


1. I take this to mean any Siglent SDG**** can be used for Bode plot.
2. DSO can only control SDG**** for Bode plot usage.

So it may seem that the AWG SW option is only needed for general AWG usage control of the SAG1021 HW.
Please Siglent confirm.

That would be completely reasonable.  There’s not really a need to control a separate box, as long as the Bode plot function is supported.  Please confirm when you can for us.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #387 on: November 30, 2017, 07:02:10 am »
Time ago somewhere here was discussed about vertical offset setting when change V/div setting when channel mode is DC.

It was really frustrating to turn Vertical position  (offset) if example look some ripple etc over DC and need change V/div for look more "close" this ripple or what ever riding on DC  and need also watch DC level or very low frequencies what need mostly that channel is DC coupled.

Now in SDS1kX-E 4-chan  have solution for this.
Lets hope they implement this feature also to 2 channel models FW.
Is it right place that this selection is under Utility menu is other question. So or so, but this feature is good to have.

There is available now fixed offset voltage setting. User can select fixed Voltage offset or this Fixed "position" offset what have been there previously as fixed default).
Fixed voltage offset means that it keep offset voltage constant when you change V/div.

Example (in image) there is small signal (or ripple or what ever) riding over 1.5V DC.
I have set 1.5V fixed vertical offset.
First image just example with 100mV/div (ans also slow timebase, nite it can still measure rise time with 1ns resolution)
Then next image I want change V/div for look better this "ripple". I turn it to 10mV/div
I do not need now turn nearly endless this vertical position adjustment when I change V/div. I can change to what ever V/div and offset is fixed 1.5V. (in this image I have also changed time base but this is not relevant for this offset feature.)
Previously it was some times really frustrating to use time for turning this vert, position all time when change V/div.

There is also available fixed delay time setting but this is other story.


« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 07:05:02 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #388 on: November 30, 2017, 08:25:19 am »
Is it right place that this selection is under Utility menu is other question. So or so, but this feature is good to have.

This is only a first shot, not the final solution, which will go even further. Stay tuned ;)
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #389 on: November 30, 2017, 10:54:27 am »
Is it right place that this selection is under Utility menu is other question. So or so, but this feature is good to have.

This is only a first shot, not the final solution, which will go even further. Stay tuned ;)

Yes.

One thing what I hope is that Siglent develop zoomed display more nice for eyes.
Least when I use horizontal zoomed window my priority is looking this zoomed window.
It feels bit annoying that display is vertically divided 1:1.  I feel better if zoomed window height is more than unzoomed upper part. Unzoomed upper part is only for select what part of whole waveform I want zoom. But for signal details I look zoomed bottom part. It is much better if this part get more height on display. Example 1/4 for unzoomed and 3/4 for zoomed.  Why user use zoom. Because he want see details. So, who do not show details as good as can.




If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline kahe40

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #390 on: November 30, 2017, 11:06:23 am »
Could You please show us, how 100M and 200M units display the same signal (eg. 25/50/75M square wave)?
I'm thinking about one of these, but I'm not sure how much 200M in reality differs from 100M...
the first difference I see, are 357€ ... (WTF, Rigol1054 sells for 379€, the entire scope)

prices from Batronix are:  1202X-E = 427€   1204X-E = 784€   (VAT and shipping included)
so 357€ more to spend for 2CH more and another ADC, not bad Siglent!

The 1104X-E is 510€, so 274€ more only for the 200M Bw?

I hope it can be hacked, otherwise I have to wait for the new Rigols.
They should bring the 1054 to the next level, 2GSa one CH and each CH with 500MSa?
Would be a DS2072A with 4CH for roundabout 1000€ - maybe only a dream?
And 10bit, please   :-))
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #391 on: November 30, 2017, 11:51:22 am »
One thing what I hope is that Siglent develop zoomed display more nice for eyes.
Least when I use horizontal zoomed window my priority is looking this zoomed window.
It feels bit annoying that display is vertically divided 1:1.  I feel better if zoomed window height is more than unzoomed upper part. Unzoomed upper part is only for select what part of whole waveform I want zoom. But for signal details I look zoomed bottom part. It is much better if this part get more height on display. Example 1/4 for unzoomed and 3/4 for zoomed.  Why user use zoom. Because he want see details. So, who do not show details as good as can.

I agree, yet it might not be that simple a decision.

Full display means 1 ADC LSB = 2 screen pixels.
Split display (50 + 50% as it is now) means 1 ADC LSB = 1 screen pixel.

Split display (25 + 75%) means ...
Optical appearance of the trace rendition as well as performance might suffer.

Have you ever talked to Siglent about this request?

 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #392 on: November 30, 2017, 06:12:10 pm »
Cool to hear that it works with an existing AWG! I have access to an SDG1025 :)

Still not entirely clear whether I would need a software license option or not, and for which functionality.

And why does Siglent write "SDS1004X-E can't control the SDG**** AWG"? If the scope can't control the AWG, how can it generate a Bode plot? :)
The scope should be able to control the AWG in order to generate a Bode plot.

Or do they mean that it can't control *ALL* parameters of the AWG, and just a minimal set of parameters to generate a Bode plot?
What would that minimal set be? Frequency/Amplitude/Phase parameters applied on a standard Sine wave?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 06:38:16 pm by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #393 on: November 30, 2017, 06:47:06 pm »
So if you already have a Siglent SDG**** AWG then you would only need to buy the AWG SW option.
Edit.
Above last sentence is true for Bode plot usage only, not general Siglent AWG control usage.

That's really disappointing to have to purchase the software license even if you already have a Siglent AWG, those are not cheap.  I see the license price is $109, seems like a heavy punishment for existing customers.

Edit: This may be incorrect.
No need of FG software option for Bode Plot
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Offline Siglent America

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #394 on: November 30, 2017, 09:38:20 pm »
So if you already have a Siglent SDG**** AWG then you would only need to buy the AWG SW option.
Edit.
Above last sentence is true for Bode plot usage only, not general Siglent AWG control usage.

That's really disappointing to have to purchase the software license even if you already have a Siglent AWG, those are not cheap.  I see the license price is $109, seems like a heavy punishment for existing customers.

Edit: This may be incorrect.
No need of FG software option for Bode Plot

You are correct.
You can use an external Siglent SDG to make your Bode Plots without having to use the software (FW) option. The SDG is connected to the SDS1XX4X-E scope via USB and SCPI commands are sent to it from the scope.
 
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Offline gray

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #395 on: December 01, 2017, 12:54:00 am »
I have been watching development around new Siglent scopes for some time. Considering SDS1104X-E.

Have a question. The WiFi adapter for 4-channel scopes on Siglent US site http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=5109&tid=1&T=2 is listed as TL_WN725N. Google resolves it as TP-Link N150 Wireless Nano USB Adapter (TL-WN725N) listed on Amazon for $7.99. Can someone with the scope check if this TP-Link in fact works? Does WiFi option require license fees?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 12:56:51 am by gray »
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #396 on: December 01, 2017, 02:01:48 am »
I have been watching development around new Siglent scopes for some time. Considering SDS1104X-E.

Have a question. The WiFi adapter for 4-channel scopes on Siglent US site http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=5109&tid=1&T=2 is listed as TL_WN725N. Google resolves it as TP-Link N150 Wireless Nano USB Adapter (TL-WN725N) listed on Amazon for $7.99. Can someone with the scope check if this TP-Link in fact works? Does WiFi option require license fees?
Welcome to the forum.

Yes and yes, but mine does have a permanent WiFi option. It should work with the option Trial usages until there are none left. You can purchase any option later from your dealer if/when required.
I've only tried the gold version as was recommended by my contacts at Siglent and it was plug and play, no problems at all.
My experience was outlined in reply #352
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Offline gray

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #397 on: December 01, 2017, 02:32:14 am »
So, let me get it straight. $49 paid for WiFi adapter buys an adapter and a license key? On top of that, one needs to buy a software for $69 (prices taken from Saelig site)? Somewhat steep.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #398 on: December 01, 2017, 02:50:12 am »
So, let me get it straight. $49 paid for WiFi adapter buys an adapter and a license key?
No, just the WiFi adapter/dongle at Siglent retail price.  :(

Quote
On top of that, one needs to buy a software for $69 (prices taken from Saelig site)? Somewhat steep.
You just need buy the SW (license key) IF you can source the dongle cheaper elsewhere.

But not all will need WiFi connectivity as the LAN port accomplishes the same functionality.
I found it there was no advantage IF you had access to a wired LAN.

As time passes other WiFi dongles will be tried and a list of 'working' ones made.
The silver (not gold) version of TL-WN725N may work fine too, we just don't know yet.

For quick and easy small size (Kb's) screenshots, a USB stick is still the most convenient.

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Offline gray

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #399 on: December 01, 2017, 03:08:45 am »
So, let me get it straight. $49 paid for WiFi adapter buys an adapter and a license key?
No, just the WiFi adapter/dongle at Siglent retail price.  :(

OK, this makes life a little easier. $8 is better than $49 :)
 


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