Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 160336 times)

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Offline insine

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #425 on: December 05, 2017, 08:31:36 am »
Why there is no N-th edge trigger?
Is Siglent planning to add it?

Also, I found in the datasheet, there are no edge count and pulse count measurements. It would be nice to have these.

UART decoding seems to be limited to 334000baud? 10Mbaud would be nicer :)
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #426 on: December 05, 2017, 06:54:54 pm »
UART decoding seems to be limited to 334000baud? 10Mbaud would be nicer :)
A check with my beta unit shows UART 5Mbaud custom setting is available BUT this needs confirmation from a fresh to market unit. Possibly there were last minute tweaks to firmware prior to release.

Some simple UART decode.
Source Siglent STB3
Connection with standard probes

Ch1 falling edge trigger, Holdoff close (80ns)
While the first screenshot doesn't show it, triggering was unstable and addition holdoff was added to restrict triggering until after a packet of data.





Decode ON


Panning the decode in Zoom mode


640 events in the decode table.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 06:57:10 pm by tautech »
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #427 on: December 05, 2017, 07:20:47 pm »
UART decoding seems to be limited to 334000baud? 10Mbaud would be nicer :)
A check with my beta unit shows UART 5Mbaud custom setting is available BUT this needs confirmation from a fresh to market unit. Possibly there were last minute tweaks to firmware prior to release.



I have FW version 7.6.1.12
FPGA version 2017-11-07

UART custom speed Max 5M

What is your version?
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #428 on: December 05, 2017, 07:25:23 pm »
UART decoding seems to be limited to 334000baud? 10Mbaud would be nicer :)
A check with my beta unit shows UART 5Mbaud custom setting is available BUT this needs confirmation from a fresh to market unit. Possibly there were last minute tweaks to firmware prior to release.



I have FW version 7.6.1.12
FPGA version 2017-11-07

UART custom speed Max 5M

What is your version?
FW version = same.
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Offline toomuchesr

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #429 on: December 07, 2017, 02:27:40 am »
SDS1104X-E: € 510,51

AWG + Software Option for it: € 165.41 + € 113.05 = € 304.46
Hmmm, I guess this price is ok but no cheap. I assume you will find a standalone ARB that performs better for the same money.

Logic Analyser Probes + Software Option: € 342.72  + € 113.05 = € 455.77
I don't get it. Just judging from the product photo, the probes do not look like high quality stuff. I assume the whole sampling electronic in the little boxes, or is it just a bunch of (super "expensive") passive components?

(Prices from https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1104X-E.html)
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #430 on: December 07, 2017, 02:31:02 am »
The logic probe image is not the SLA1016 , it is the SPL2016
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Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #431 on: December 07, 2017, 02:35:28 am »
I don't get it. Just judging from the product photo, the probes do not look like high quality stuff. I assume the whole sampling electronic in the little boxes, or is it just a bunch of (super "expensive") passive components?

Normally they have comparators with selectable reference voltage so you can work with 5V/3.3V/etc.

Not cheap, but not $300 either.

(does anybody know the exact chips they use?)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 04:39:30 am by Fungus »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #432 on: December 07, 2017, 04:05:28 am »
SDS1104X-E: € 510,51

AWG + Software Option for it: € 165.41 + € 113.05 = € 304.46
Hmmm, I guess this price is ok but no cheap. I assume you will find a standalone ARB that performs better for the same money.

Logic Analyser Probes + Software Option: € 342.72  + € 113.05 = € 455.77
I don't get it. Just judging from the product photo, the probes do not look like high quality stuff. I assume the whole sampling electronic in the little boxes, or is it just a bunch of (super "expensive") passive components?

(Prices from https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1104X-E.html)
The image on the Batronix site is of the LA probeset for SDS2000X series NOT for SDS1*04X-E.
Pricing is for both is similar and if the probeset is of the same quality as for 2000X it is much superior to the cheap ribbon cable probesets used before.
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Offline Pitrsek

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #433 on: December 07, 2017, 07:55:45 am »
First observations with 1104X-E - bode plot is not autoranging on the DUT channel, which is kinda lame. CSV export from bode is empty. Bode does not work with rebranded siglent AWG. I might try to push siglent fw on the AWG.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #434 on: December 07, 2017, 08:49:03 am »
First observations with 1104X-E - bode plot is not autoranging on the DUT channel, which is kinda lame. CSV export from bode is empty. Bode does not work with rebranded siglent AWG. I might try to push siglent fw on the AWG.

In this test data is crap (not real test with DUT and not made any designed settings)), this is done only for get "what ever" .CSV out after it have done BP. Attached this .csv. Edit file name so that remove last .txt and it is just this original SDS00002_bode.csv from SDS1104X-E

Autoranging. I do not know what kind of autoranging you think with this but least in my tests plot itself adjust its amplitude and phase scales automatically when it is running and doing plotting if plot goes near border it adjust scale as needed but all this it do only when it is running. If your AWG do not work with it, then you can not see it. Also you do not get data table what it save as .csv.

Edit: add: attached image about plot what is same as this .csv. (here screen is horizontally divided for BP plot and data table. Data table can turn off of course for more wide plot.) (as can see not best settings)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 09:02:54 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #435 on: December 07, 2017, 11:32:58 am »
Siglent Bode Plot does not look good, why all the ripple?  I don't think the filter is causing it, so the plot is not a good representation.

Here is the Keysight EDUX1002G bode plot (50 ohm passthrough connector) to compare...


 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #436 on: December 07, 2017, 03:47:48 pm »
Siglent Bode Plot does not look good, why all the ripple?  I don't think the filter is causing it, so the plot is not a good representation.

Here is the Keysight EDUX1002G bode plot (50 ohm passthrough connector) to compare...


Not good ?  :-//
It's showing a magnitude higher resolution. If the KS was set to the same parameters, what will it show ?

Are you using a 10:1 probe for connection ? Why ?  :-//
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Offline Pitrsek

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #437 on: December 07, 2017, 04:43:58 pm »
Auto ranging - in regard with input sensitivity. When you start, the ref channel sensitivity is automatically set for maximal resolution, the DUT channel is set to what ever you have set it. Then you start to sweep, DUT signal is getting smaller and smaller, but DUT channel sensitivity is still the same. If the scope would change sensitivity settings as needed, you would get way better amplitude resolution. You'd probably need some king of calibration routine tough.

I'll look into csv export some more, but we were getting just empty csv file on the usb drive.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #438 on: December 07, 2017, 04:49:32 pm »
I have bought few Minicircuit low pass filters SLP-50+ , 50Ohm adapters, SMA connectors etc ... to create a nice test setup. Unfortunately it seems I will not get them before Xmas :( I hope to post a video about it as soon as possible .
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #439 on: December 07, 2017, 05:42:41 pm »
Siglent Bode Plot does not look good, why all the ripple?  I don't think the filter is causing it, so the plot is not a good representation.

Here is the Keysight EDUX1002G bode plot (50 ohm passthrough connector) to compare...



Do you have thos your Bode Plot data table .csv? How many data points it have?


Here Attached Siglent image what you perhaps like more. Now also scales are roughly around same on the screen.

I do not know how many data pints Keysight use. If I remember right not so many.
Big difference is that KS use its internal signal generator.  Siglent use external and in my case not even this SAG1021 what you can see SDS1104X-E data sheets and ad's. I use here in this case Siglent SDG1032X what oscilloscope is controlling via USB command bus. It is perhaps possible that in some cases this signal generator produce some glitches or not. Also my SDS1032X is not factory original out from box. It is experimentally tweaked out from its specifications.

As you can see in my previous image, it was done ONLY for show that it can save bode plot data to usb memory using .CSV  data format. For this I did not any real cabeling to any real DUT. Just random wires on my board.

Then example level. As @tautech noted there is very very different scale. We have 8bit ADC, in KS and in Sig. What you think when you magnify scale so that one resolution step is more than display resolution.

This is more comparable with Keysight bode plot including tiny amount of data points (Siglent set for most low amount of data points)


« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 05:59:08 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #440 on: December 10, 2017, 12:25:43 pm »
Search Feature exercise

Slope Glitch
Source Siglent STB3, 10x probe
Description: On the negative edge of a 156 kHz square wave, a step having a 200ns width adds to the overall fall time of the edge.

It can sometimes be seen as an irregular part of the falling edge of a square wave but can't be captured with a screenshot.


Some Persistence and Colour added shows it's certainly there.


So let's try and find it with Search.....also possible with Trigger settings but then we wouldn't know if was irregular or not.
Search Menu and let's use a Pulse search


And set the period for less than the positive pulse width


Still no hits  :-// ah, set the Level.....but they scroll across the display.  ???


Copy settings to Trigger, now we have five events and one directly under the Horizontal position indicator


STOP and timebase increased.



« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 04:01:48 pm by tautech »
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Offline Pitrsek

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #441 on: December 14, 2017, 07:24:45 am »
A friend loaned me the scope for a test drive. We'll se how it fares  :).
Feature suggestion/request:
Would it be possible to make back BNC trigger bidirectional? So it can be used as trigger-in?
Full screen mode - make measurements and scale setting semitransparent(selectabe) and extend the picture to whole screen. The screen is small as it is.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 07:27:24 am by Pitrsek »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #442 on: December 14, 2017, 08:54:08 am »
A friend loaned me the scope for a test drive. We'll se how it fares  :).
Feature suggestion/request:
Would it be possible to make back BNC trigger bidirectional? So it can be used as trigger-in?
I don't think the HW configuration will allow it.

The existing rear BNC is for Pass/Fail and Trigger out, both signals that are generated by the scope.

Trigger In or Ext Trig as it's better known as feeds into a different path in the scope and Ext Trig is not common in 4 ch scopes for various reasons....cost, real estate room and it's common to just use a spare channel.

However Ext Trig is common in 2 channel scopes.

For those that need 4 channels and Ext Trig there are other models available in the Siglent range, the SDS2000X series.
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #443 on: December 16, 2017, 08:29:51 pm »
And what about probe compensation issue (known from 2ch model)? Is it "available" in 4ch models?
While setting up some probes today I remembered your post so this is how they look.
At 1.2V/div an input relay changes and either with Fine or stepping from 1V/div to 2V/div will show the error as it existed in older 2ch models.





And while I'm making pretty traces  ::)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 08:32:46 pm by tautech »
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Offline kermitfrog

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #444 on: December 22, 2017, 08:13:53 am »
Was considering a 1204, but after watching Dave's teardown videos my impression is that he doesn't think the sampling circuits would keep up very well for the 200mhz models. Did anyone else see this on the video? Maybe I should just get the 1104 instead and save some $ if that is the case? As far as I can tell the 1104 has the same specs and options etc as the 1204 with the exception of the 200mhz vs 100mhz, unless I missed something. After seeing the price price for the MSO option, I'm a bit reluctant...another $440 for the MSO option is a bit pricey, and makes the whole thing less affordable for me.
 

Offline tautech

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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #446 on: January 03, 2018, 06:15:49 am »
Jack Ganssle's quick and short write up of SDS1204X-E:

http://www.ganssle.com/tem/tem341.html#article4
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #447 on: January 08, 2018, 08:53:47 pm »
Hello there! First day in office and finally got the components I was waiting for, a pair of low pass filter which I will use to test the Bode Plot function on the new Siglent 4 channel scopes. I still need some adapters and cables and I should be ready for it. Hope to be ready to post something soon!
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Offline Giuss

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #448 on: January 09, 2018, 04:47:42 am »
Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy? 
Of course there is a gap for the BW (50Mhz vs 100Mhz) but I don't know if this difference is worth for the price, for hobby use.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #449 on: January 09, 2018, 05:20:35 am »
Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy? 
Of course there is a gap for the BW (50Mhz vs 100Mhz) but I don't know if this difference is worth for the price, for hobby use.

The Rigol is easy to convert to 100MHz bandwidth, just press the right sequence of buttons on the front panel.  :)

 


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