Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes

[Giuss]

Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy? 
Of course there is a gap for the BW (50Mhz vs 100Mhz) but I don't know if this difference is worth for the price, for hobby use.

The Rigol is easy to convert to 100MHz bandwidth, just press the right sequence of buttons on the front panel. 

Yes I know that.  Probably it is still the best buy in this price range.

[TK]

Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy? 
Of course there is a gap for the BW (50Mhz vs 100Mhz) but I don't know if this difference is worth for the price, for hobby use.

The Rigol is easy to convert to 100MHz bandwidth, just press the right sequence of buttons on the front panel. 

The Rigol is very slow at serial decoding and FFT.  If you need these functions, I think the siglent is a better buy.

[MARCOS BR]

Greetings to all of Brazil. I use Google translate. I am an old reader of the blog. As a hobby I am a ham radio. Now I decided to participate and ask questions. Soon I want to buy a Digital Oscilloscope, I already had a Hitachi analog oscilloscope, 35 MHz. It was a "disappointment to children's fault" of the "probing" of the SDS1202X-E and SDS1204X-E. It seems to me that in model SDS1202X-e the problem has already been solved. On the question of SDS1204X-E how is the solution?

[tautech]

Greetings to all of Brazil. I use Google translate. I am an old reader of the blog. As a hobby I am a ham radio. Now I decided to participate and ask questions. Soon I want to buy a Digital Oscilloscope, I already had a Hitachi analog oscilloscope, 35 MHz. It was a "disappointment to children's fault" of the "probing" of the SDS1202X-E and SDS1204X-E. It seems to me that in model SDS1202X-e the problem has already been solved. On the question of SDS1204X-E how is the solution?

Welcome to the forum.

There is no problem with 10x probe compensation in these new 4ch models.
Dave looked at the input stages in his teardown to check both caps are there, they are.

This is mentioned also by other members a few pages back.
My last reply on December 16 demonstrates 10x probe compensation issue is not in these scopes.

[exe]

Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy?

While 120euros may appear to be a lot, in my opinion it doesn't really matter. Buy the one you'll enjoy more (if you use it any frequently) or the one that will better fulfill your needs.

[Fungus]

Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy?

You could always unlock those options anyway.

Answer: It's your money, it's up to you.

If you bought a new car would you lie awake at night thinking you could have spent 43% more to get the model with leather seats? Both models have aircon and power steering, both models will get you to work every day and carry the exact same amount of shopping.

[tautech]

From another thread:

Siglent Technologies has kindly lent me their new SDS1204X-E oscilloscope (200 MHz, 4 channels) to help the lxi-tools open source effort

I hooked it up, calibrated the 4 included probes, and after enabling the network interface (DHCP) it was easily discovered with lxi-tools.



It turns out that this is an absolutely blazingly fast scope, especially in terms of LXI/LAN SCPI command processing performance!

With the benchmark feature I'm getting ~300 requests/s via TCP/VXI11:

Code: [Select]

$ lxi benchmark --address 192.168.1.125
Benchmarking by sending 100 ID requests. Please wait...
Result: 301.5 requests/second

And I get ~600 requests/s via TCP/RAW:

Code: [Select]

$ lxi benchmark --raw --address 192.168.1.125
Benchmarking by sending 100 ID requests. Please wait...
Result: 598.9 requests/second

This is quite impressive. Compared, the performance of e.g. the Rigol DS1054Z is ~30 requests/s via TCP/VXI11 and ~160 requests/s via TCP/RAW.

Of course, the faster performance is to be expected from a newly released scope which clearly uses a newer and faster chipset. However, fact still is, it is very fast and it is one of the first low cost scopes that makes it possible to easily implement a poor-mans data logger using LXI/LAN polling that can consistently sample data at e.g. 100 Hz or more.

I also notice that Siglent uses standard LXI ports as defined here: http://www.lxistandard.org/About/LXI-Protocols.aspx

That is, the available network ports for the SDS1204X-E are:

Code: [Select]

$ nmap -p- 192.168.1.125

Starting Nmap 7.60 ( [url]https://nmap.org[/url] ) at 2018-01-08 15:18 CET
Nmap scan report for 192.168.1.125
Host is up (0.042s latency).
Not shown: 65529 closed ports
PORT     STATE SERVICE
23/tcp   open  telnet
80/tcp   open  http
111/tcp  open  rpcbind
918/tcp  open  unknown
5024/tcp open  scpi-telnet
5025/tcp open  scpi-raw

Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 40.14 seconds

In particular, they use standard port 5025 for SCPI/RAW and port 5024 for SCPI/telnet. This is one of the odd things that Rigol fails to do for the DS1054Z (they place it on non-standard port 5555):

Code: [Select]

$ nmap -p- 192.168.1.210

Starting Nmap 7.60 ( [url]https://nmap.org[/url] ) at 2018-01-08 15:19 CET
Nmap scan report for 192.168.1.210
Host is up (0.080s latency).
Not shown: 65529 closed ports
PORT     STATE SERVICE
80/tcp   open  http
111/tcp  open  rpcbind
617/tcp  open  sco-dtmgr
618/tcp  open  dei-icda
619/tcp  open  compaq-evm
5555/tcp open  freeciv

Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 40.54 seconds

Taking a screenshot with the SDS1204X-E is very fast too:

Code: [Select]

$ time lxi screenshot -a 192.168.1.125
Loaded siglent-sds screenshot plugin
Saved screenshot image to screenshot_192.168.1.125_2018-01-08_15:37:22.bmp

real    0m0,361s
user    0m0,006s
sys     0m0,026s

Only ~0.4 second!

It's also nice to see that the Siglent scope has a small and light form factor which feels solid.

My first impressions are good - I'm looking forward to more testing with this instrument during the development of the GUI frontend for lxi-tools. It will also make a nice addition to the pool of instruments that I plan to use for lxi-tools performance and regression testing.

[epongenoir]

I have bought this scope and I love it, but I think I just discovered a bug, which happens in Normal trigger, run mode.

If you need the precise config files to replicate the issue ask, I can post them!

What do you think?

Sorry for the quality, I'm working and I am in a precarious setup.

[tautech]

I have bought this scope and I love it, but I think I just discovered a bug, which happens in Normal trigger, run mode.

If you need the precise config files to replicate the issue ask, I can post them!

What do you think?

I'm pretty sure it's not a bug.

Look at the relationship of memory depth, H offset and timebase settings.
As you zoom in, the memory depth reduces and subsequently the amount of H offset available reduces too.
The display message indicates this and I'd expect it to be quite normal behavior.

Think 'data points' and how many are available to work with. 
As you're in Normal triggering you are working with 'saved' data points and behavior will be different with Auto triggering where a "live" stream of data points (memory) will be available for the scope to work with.

[Performa01]

This is not a bug, just an artificial restriction.

Trigger delay cannot exceed 10000 x the timebase. So at 1µs/div, the max. permissible delay is 10000µs or 10ms.

You can lower the timebase as much as you want in stop mode though, if you really need to examine a very short signal detail that far away from the trigger point.

Instead of lowering the main timebase, you can also use zoom mode as this has absolutely no restriction. Be aware though, that a long trigger delay also generates some additional jitter that is about 0.5ppm of the delay time and this will eventually become visible. With 12ms delay, jitter would be about 6ns peak to peak and be noticable at a (zoomed) timebase of 100ns/div or faster.

From this point of view, it would be acceptable to limit the delay time to 100000 x timebase, thus making it possible to have 10ms delay at 100ns/div. But then again, in the rare cases where you actually need such an extreme setting, you can always either stop the acquisition or use the zoom mode during run.

[rf-loop]

Some tiny simple examples about SDS1000X-E 4channel models BodePlot function what is standard feature - not option.

In Siglent there is selectable three resolution. 21, 101 and 501 points over selected span.

Still I do not know how this resolution is in exdample Keysight InfiniiVision 1000 X-Series Oscilloscopes. In some places can find 10 points/decade (are they serious or is this whole function only for add one more feature to sales AD). In some Good Will model there is also now FRA (Freq Response Analyzing) available and it have around bit over 50 points. But how scaling is done etc, it is very unclear.

Here two examples with Siglent. These examples use quite narrow span and high resolution because this kind of work need narrow span and enough high rersolution. These examples are not at all some kind of maximum limits. Minimum span is 500Hz and max 120MHz.  Here in filter image used 5kHz span and in Xtal resonance curve 10kHz span.

Also it need note that test setups are far away from optimal or good. (filter I/O impedance not matched. Xtal just connected between scope input terminal and other pole to generator output what is also connected to channel 1 as reference using simple T branching connector and also BodePlot settings just for see something, not optimized.

Note that in filter image, level is linear and Xtal image level is Log. (It show nicely what are limits of 8bit ADC)

Also here used only one plot. Siglent can handle somultaneously three inputs (DUT outputs)
Channel 1 is always reference (Sig gen output) and DUT input.  User can select channels 2, 3 and 4 for DUT output. All three works simultaneously and free to select what channel or channels use.


Xtal ~1.1MHz xtal in HC5 case from one Harris military rtx.
Bad filter also from Harris rtx.

Signal generator in this case SDS1032X-h (under scope bodeplot full automatic cotrol)

with BodePlot HighRes sweep and 10kHz span frequency step is 20Hz and and (Span Hz/500)

In these two examples I have used ch3 input. Because now channels 1 and 3 is in use simultaneously scope can use full 1GSa/s (no needed, but just for example)



With 8bit ADC full scale natural limit is ~48dB (8*6.02)



With this image I like also ranting something.
In this case DUT (filter) attenuate pass band lot of. But, I have no option to adjust different level for DUT output. It use automatically same level what it automatically set for reference channel 1 what depends sweep signal level. User can not (or least I have not find how) manually force scope input level settings, BP select it automatically. No, result is better if I can compensate this high atternuation in DUT, so that ADC use its range better so that vertical resolution come better.
But, this is first FW version with BodePlot... there is also some ergonomic - UI things what need finishing and some optimize for better useability. Specially when there is also data table on screen and more other informations like cursors etc. (note that here cursor are "wrong channel" just for get different color and less information. (if use here ch3 cursors it read data from trace).


But BodePlot in Siglent is not made only just  for adding one feature to sales advertisements. I do not know exactly example how Keysight X1000 BP things are but it looks like it have really poor resolution. Nothing like in Siglent.

[rf-loop]

As previously told Siglent BodePlot have 4 inputs.
1 (Ch1) for reference (pahase and if want, also for amplitude) what is also signal to DUT input.
3 channels for DUT outputs.  Of course this mean that thewre also can be 3 separate DUT (but all with same input)

Here tiny simplified example. Just for show it draw simultaneously 3 traces. I have lot of same type Xtals and I want first do some preselecting for couple of as similar as possible for futher tests and more deep selection process (example if I'm building filter). Generator used here was SDG1032X-h

Here is 3 same type bit over 18MHz Xtal's just picked-up randomly from some lot.

I have turned phase out from image just for visual simplify.

(also as can see Ch4 Xtal is more out from these what are connected to ch2 and 3)


Also useful for simultaneusly tuning 3 separate filters.

[tautech]

Some little update on lundmar's work for a LXI package to use with Linux....

I had to go back and update the benchmark performance numbers for the Siglent SDS1204X-E because it turns out my network routing tables were messed up so all tests were performed over wifi - arrghhhh! 

Over cabled network it's not doing ~300 requests/second.... It's doing ~1100 requests/second!!!!

Bam! Thats almost as fast as a Dolorean in overdrive!

With such result there is plenty room to make a poor-mans-datalogger sampling maybe several values at e.g. 100Hz or more.

Oh, and the screenshot live view feature in lxi-gui is now even more smooth hitting about 7 frames/second.

And a realtime vid demonstrating it's speed:

I captured a video instead to capture the time correctly:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/lxi-tools/misc/master/lxi-gui-benchmark-live-view-sds1204xe.webm

It demonstrates the benchmark and live screenshot feature on the SDS1204X-E. It feels quite responsive.

Download and play it.   

[tautech]

What we've been waiting for....

Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb

http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4067&tid=15

Changelog
1.This is the first version.   


VERY IMPORTANT
Perform Self Cal after updating.

[rf-loop]

What we've been waiting for....

Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb

http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4067&tid=15

Changelog
1.This is the first version.   


VERY IMPORTANT
Perform Self Cal after updating.

I'm bit surprised.
I do not remember if Siglent have done this any time previously - publishing first launch time FW version as update.
Or is this "Happy New year" present for....  due to chinese new year soon.
Perhaps - or is it just only dreaming - there was SDG2042X, SSA3021X, SDG1032X... is this next "wow"...
Least now some peoples have file what can "study"...
 

[Gabri74]

What we've been waiting for....
Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb
Changelog
1.This is the first version.   

mmm, my unit is already on 7.6.1.12 from the box.... Maybe it will update the FPGA bitstram? Is there any indication of the FPGA version in the update?
Mine FPGA has version is: 2017-11-07

[rf-loop]

What we've been waiting for....
Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb
Changelog
1.This is the first version.   

mmm, my unit is already on 7.6.1.12 from the box.... Maybe it will update the FPGA bitstram? Is there any indication of the FPGA version in the update?
Mine FPGA has version is: 2017-11-07

It is same. (It can read in filename)
SDS1004X-E_7.6.1.12_FPGA_V20171107.ADS

As told also just previously. This is FIRST version. Normally purchased units out from box have this version.

[tautech]

What we've been waiting for....

Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb

http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4067&tid=15

Changelog
1.This is the first version.   


VERY IMPORTANT
Perform Self Cal after updating.

I'm bit surprised.
I do not remember if Siglent have done this any time previously - publishing first launch time FW version as update.
Or is this "Happy New year" present for....  due to chinese new year soon.
Perhaps - or is it just only dreaming - there was SDG2042X, SSA3021X, SDG1032X... is this next "wow"...
Least now some peoples have file what can "study"...
 

Yes, it's the same version Siglent sent me pre-release. 

Not the first time they've put the wrong version online................
We'll find out what's going on tomorrow !

[tubularnut]

My SDS1104X-E out of the box (purchased Jan 2018) was:

Software Version: 7.6.1.12R1
FPGA Version: 2017-12-18
Hardware Version: 00-03

Not sure what the R1 signifies?

[rf-loop]

What we've been waiting for....

Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb

http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4067&tid=15

Changelog
1.This is the first version.   


VERY IMPORTANT
Perform Self Cal after updating.

I'm bit surprised.
I do not remember if Siglent have done this any time previously - publishing first launch time FW version as update.
Or is this "Happy New year" present for....  due to chinese new year soon.
Perhaps - or is it just only dreaming - there was SDG2042X, SSA3021X, SDG1032X... is this next "wow"...
Least now some peoples have file what can "study"...
 

Yes, it's the same version Siglent sent me pre-release. 

Not the first time they've put the wrong version online................
We'll find out what's going on tomorrow !

And same what I can see out from box after release.
Lets hope this version have some "hole" to...

[rf-loop]

My SDS1104X-E out of the box (purchased Jan 2018) was:

Software Version: 7.6.1.12R1
FPGA Version: 2017-12-18
Hardware Version: 00-03

Not sure what the R1 signifies?

This is good information, tnx. This IS update after this "first version". (also fpga version changed)

[rf-loop]

Now we can wait soon this .12R1 update is available. Let's see igf Siglent leave this .12 also available. So we can also downgrade (if need for some reason)

ETA:
12R1 is only tiny intermadiate update. No advantages over version 12. (change only pass/fail output pulse width)
Next update after this is .20 and it have lot of changes. Without further tests I only "feel" that changelog do not list exactly every all improvements what they have done. (example it looks like some functions operate now bit faster but I have not yet compared running simultaneously version 12 and version 20 (using two scopes)

[tautech]

No false alarm this time. 

Version: v7.6.1.20
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4071&tid=15
6.5 Mb

Changelog
1.Add MSO/Logic functionality
2.Added automatic vertical scale (volts/div) in Bode Plot mode
3.Added USB WiFi support.
4.Optimized the WiFi GUI
5.Automatic Roll mode selection will be disabled if manually disabled once.
6.Renamed Runt-Trigger in German
7.Fixed a bug in the I2C triggering system of 7 bit Address& Data
8.Improved Auto Setup function with 1K compensation output
9.Improved waveform update when using sequence mode on long timebases
10.Optimize self-calibration for Channels

[rf-loop]

No false alarm this time. 

Version: v7.6.1.20
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4071&tid=15
6.5 Mb

Changelog
1.Add MSO/Logic functionality
2.Added automatic vertical scale (volts/div) in Bode Plot mode
3.Added USB WiFi support.
4.Optimized the WiFi GUI
5.Automatic Roll mode selection will be disabled if manually disabled once.
6.Renamed Runt-Trigger in German
7.Fixed a bug in the I2C triggering system of 7 bit Address& Data
8.Improved Auto Setup function with 1K compensation output
9.Improved waveform update when using sequence mode on long timebases
10.Optimize self-calibration for Channels

Perhaps it is also good to add this positive "disclaimer":
11. Possibly more or less improvements and fixes that are not listed.

[Performa01]

Perhaps it is also good to add this positive "disclaimer":
11. Possibly more or less improvements and fixes that are not listed.

Hopefully so. After all I've suggested a whole bunch of improvements and fixes not listed here...

2.Added automatic vertical scale (volts/div) in Bode Plot mode

I do hope this is what I think, because it has been the main reason why I haven't published a review of the Bode plotter yet.

9.Improved waveform update when using sequence mode on long timebases

If this means that sequence mode is fully working again and provides improved screen update rate on top of that (I've suspected something like this when looking at the initial firmware already), then I'm really looking forward to finally publish my (then updated) review for this.

Anyway, I'm eager to find out at the next weekend(s).