Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 182935 times)

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Offline wohali

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #575 on: March 01, 2018, 11:05:22 pm »
I have an order in as of last week for the same model with Transcat. Their website says "2-3 weeks" wait on the backorder. (I also ordered an SDG2042X; that one is listed as "1-2 weeks".)

I get the sense everyone is out of stock, and likely the next shipment hasn't even been made yet. China is still finishing up holiday celebrations; the Lantern Festival is today, Friday March 2. I expect the earliest a shipment would go out would be Monday the 5th, and that's assuming the units are boxed and ready to go...big assumption.

Shame on Saelig's website...I just keep telling myself "Patience, Grasshopper." At this rate, the oldy moldy LeCroy DDA-120 I scored off of eBay for US$500 will arrive before the Siglents  :-DD
 
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Offline ian.ameline

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #576 on: March 02, 2018, 02:48:01 am »
If you buy the USB based AWG box (SDG1021) do you also need to pay seperately for a software licence to unlock it's capabilities on the scope?

 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #577 on: March 02, 2018, 03:06:14 am »
If you buy the USB based AWG box (SDG1021) do you also need to pay seperately for a software licence to unlock it's capabilities on the scope?
Yes but only for its general AWG capabilities, not for Bode plot usage. List is $109 for the SDS1000X-E-FG license option.
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Offline ian.ameline

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #578 on: March 02, 2018, 04:40:59 am »
Can it do anything other than the bode plot without that software? or is it just a brick?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #579 on: March 02, 2018, 04:50:50 am »
Can it do anything other than the bode plot without that software? or is it just a brick?
The SW license enables permanent usage for ordinary AWG usage but you should be able to use it for a limited # of times until the trial times expire. I think it's 30 uses.......sorry no new stock until next week to check for you.


Other members with new units and no permanent FG (AWG) license can check for us by looking in the Utility/Option sub-menu. Status will be Trials # remaining or Permanent.


Edit.
You can at anytime in the future if you decide you need the FG permanent licensing, contact your local seller and buy the FG license. You'll be sent a code and a online link where you goto and enter this code, model # and SN# and the option licensing code is generated. Then enter it into the DSO in the Options/Install menu to make the license permanent.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 06:32:09 am by tautech »
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #580 on: March 02, 2018, 06:36:59 am »
More detailed technical information about the SAG1021 can be found here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1432665/#msg1432665
 
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Offline firstcolle

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #581 on: March 02, 2018, 10:30:01 am »
no more signal disappearing! awesome!

thanks
 

Offline Bear207

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #582 on: March 02, 2018, 06:56:00 pm »
Anyone have an SDS1x04X-E on order, with a projected delivery date?
........
FYI - there's nothing on Saelig's web site indicating the scope is out of stock.  They wait until you "buy" before telling you.   :-- ....a definite opportunity for improvement in customer service.   

Thanks,
sbrom
Ordered and received this email reply from Saelig below.
Would have been nice to know they were out of stock, yet I was also taking advantage of their EEVblog discount code as well which I appreciate.

BTW - thank you to all for this thread and such great discussion.  Some of you folks are putting in serious time with these reviews, tests and comments.  Very helpful to the community!

"Hello Gary,

Thank you for your order. At this time we are out of stock of the SDS1104-E.  We have them on order with our vendor but due to factory delays and the Chinese New Year we have been informed that they will ship to us at the end of March. Please advise us on how to proceed.

Kind Regards,

Nate Brown
Saelig Company, Inc. "
Access control specialist by profession.  Want-to-be electronics nerd forever.
 
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Offline ian.ameline

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #583 on: March 03, 2018, 12:05:05 am »
It looks like in Canada for $150 (CDN) more I can get a SDG-2042X -- it is way more than twice the instrument -- almost 10x the sample rate, 2x the bandwidth, 2 channels, & way more features.

Charging extra for the software seems sleazy to me -- if you sell me the hardware, it should work.
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #584 on: March 03, 2018, 02:14:11 am »
It looks like in Canada for $150 (CDN) more I can get a SDG-2042X -- it is way more than twice the instrument -- almost 10x the sample rate, 2x the bandwidth, 2 channels, & way more features.

Charging extra for the software seems sleazy to me -- if you sell me the hardware, it should work.
Each to their own.

It does work and straight out of the box with SDS1004X-E scopes.....for Bode plot !
If you want the additional AWG functionality then you need buy it.....or not.
If you only need the full Bode plot functionality with SDS1004X-E scopes, SAG1021 is the cheapest option.
Note, I did not claim best !

If you need further AWG capabilities, then yes, there are better Siglent AWG solutions that can also support the Bode plot feature.

Here, Siglent have given buyers choices that can fit their needs and the budget available.
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #585 on: March 03, 2018, 05:12:49 pm »
As there have been complaints regarding USB, I just did a quick test with several USB sticks – all of them fairly old, some even right from the stone age. I have often seen the advice for various instruments from various manufacturers to use flash drives up to 4GB with FAT file system only, so I was curious how the Siglent SDS1104X-E would deal with the bigger ones. I would have liked to try even higher than 32GB, but I can’t find anything bigger/better here in my lab, so someone else would have to chime in for that.

NoName                   512MB   FAT16 USB2
Platinum                 2GB     FAT16 USB2
Transcend LF V30/        4GB     FAT32 USB2
SanDisk cruzer contour   8GB     FAT32 USB2 (with additional ~7MB CDFS partition)
SanDisk cruzer edge     16GB     FAT32 USB2
Transcend               32GB     FAT32 USB3

All these were recognized by the scope without problems and the directory could be displayed correctly.

I happen to have two of the NoName 512MB and these are regularly in use with the Siglent scopes, have always been absolutely reliable and I never felt they were slow either.

I also tested the remaining ones by storing a screenshot on each of them. To my surprise even the oddball SanDisk cruzer contour worked without problems just like the others.

For the screenshot tests I removed the sticks immediately after the “saved to file …” message of the scope had disappeared. No loss of data, no problems. There was no noticeable speed difference, but then again, what to expect when a screenshot just takes a fraction of a second anyway?

This got me curious to make a quick performance test: writing binary raw data for a 4x7Mpts record. This results in a 26.74MB binary file. Since all these sticks have seen heavy use before and were not even freshly formatted (which is unlikely to make a difference anyway), write speed could be expected to be as slow as it gets. For a fair comparison, I took three measurements for each device and only used the fastest result. After all it’s more about the performance of the scope and not the ancient sticks.

USB Stick                     time (s)    Speed (MB/s)
NoName 512MB                  3.23         8.20
Platinum 2GB                  8.35         3.20
Transcend LF V30/4GB          6.11         4.38
SanDisk cruzer contour 8GB    2.99         8.94
SanDisk cruzer edge 16GB      2.85         9.38
Transcend 32GB                2.66        10.05

And the winner is … pretty much all except for the old Transcend LF V30 and particularly the slow Platinum (in actual fact another noname), which takes the red lantern, but all others are pretty close.

It is interesting to see that age and size don’t make much of a difference and even after that test I do not see any reason to replace my old 512MB FAT16 nonames.
 
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Offline 17_29bis

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #586 on: March 05, 2018, 04:32:55 am »
As there have been complaints regarding USB, I just did a quick test with several USB sticks – all of them fairly old, some even right from the stone age. I have often seen the advice for various instruments from various manufacturers to use flash drives up to 4GB with FAT file system only, so I was curious how the Siglent SDS1104X-E would deal with the bigger ones. I would have liked to try even higher than 32GB, but I can’t find anything bigger/better here in my lab, so someone else would have to chime in for that.

Indeed there was a complaint regarding USB. In my case only really the old SanDisk Cruzer Edge (4GB)  worked, more modern Kingston Data Travel 2.0 64 GB and SanDisk Extreme 64GB 3.0 did not work. The reason why they did not work is that they were formatted as NTFS and exFAT (tautech mentioned that  8) in one of his replies). After reformatting one of those drives and using FAT32 (I ended up with 32GB single partition although it was a 64GB drive, it seems to be Windows imposed limitation) it was recognized by SDS1204X-E.
A side note about reformatting high performance USB 3.0 flash drives: some of them are being formatted with proper partition alignment during manufacturing. After the user mindlessly reformats such a flash drive its performance can and most likely degrade.

I also tested the remaining ones by storing a screenshot on each of them. To my surprise even the oddball SanDisk cruzer contour worked without problems just like the others.
For the screenshot tests I removed the sticks immediately after the “saved to file …” message of the scope had disappeared. No loss of data, no problems. There was no noticeable speed difference, but then again, what to expect when a screenshot just takes a fraction of a second anyway?


It's nice to know that it flawlessly worked for you but I can hardly see that as a proof that certain SDS1204X-E having/running a particular version of hardware/firmware  (but to tell the truth I don't know how much that matters in this situation, nevertheless this is how the test should be performed in case  if those things do matter otherwise we will have something similar to what we had regarding PP215 probes, i.e. same labels, different parameters etc)  cannot have a problem with storing screenshots.
At  the moment I am using a simple workaround (I did not save many of them since my last post though) by saving one more screenshot even if I don't need it making sure that the previous one was stored on the external drive. If I really wanted to know the answer to this question I would use an USB  protocol analyzer to see what is going on on the bus before/after the message on the screen, but I don't care that much.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #587 on: March 05, 2018, 04:54:25 am »
As there have been complaints regarding USB, I just did a quick test with several USB sticks – all of them fairly old, some even right from the stone age. I have often seen the advice for various instruments from various manufacturers to use flash drives up to 4GB with FAT file system only, so I was curious how the Siglent SDS1104X-E would deal with the bigger ones. I would have liked to try even higher than 32GB, but I can’t find anything bigger/better here in my lab, so someone else would have to chime in for that.

Indeed there was a complaint regarding USB. In my case only really the old SanDisk Cruzer Edge (4GB)  worked, more modern Kingston Data Travel 2.0 64 GB and SanDisk Extreme 64GB 3.0 did not work. The reason why they did not work is that they were formatted as NTFS and exFAT (tautech mentioned that  8) in one of his replies). After reformatting one of those drives and using FAT32 (I ended up with 32GB single partition although it was a 64GB drive, it seems to be Windows imposed limitation) it was recognized by SDS1204X-E.
A side note about reformatting high performance USB 3.0 flash drives: some of them are being formatted with proper partition alignment during manufacturing. After the user mindlessly reformats such a flash drive its performance can and most likely degrade.
Following developments as always, of the USB drives I use with scopes, all are USB 2.0, none are larger than 16GB and all are FAT32 formatted. I've some beaten up old 512MB ones too and none give problems.
Even when we beta tested (SDS1104X-E) there were never any problems and many screenshots were taken to send back to the factory.

17_29bis
I sure understand you concerns over saving screenshots and then they not being on the stick but with a correctly formatted and compatible drive this issue just shouldn't happen. Although I haven't beaten FW 20R1 up much I don't see and reason USB Save wouldn't work as it has in the past. Drives are just so cheap these days, IIRC a pair of 8 GB Strontium's cost me ~$10.

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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #588 on: March 05, 2018, 06:33:10 am »
Ok, so I tried the USB connection from 1104->1032 and it works.  Then, for giggles, I went back and re-configured for LAN and it worked!  I then unplugged the USB cable just to make sure and it still works.  I don't know if I fat-fingered something the first time or what?  :-//

The LAN connection works now for me too :)

Initially, it did not work indeed. Then I saw the changelog for the 7.6.1.20R1 firmware and it says

1.   Supported all of Siglent’s SDG instruments in Bode Plot

So I thought the issue might be device specific and hoped the FW update would cure my problems. It did not.

I have been in contact with Siglent about the issue and it turned out that it was a specific problem with my early pre-production unit of the SDS1104X-E, which was easily cured by sending just one command to the device.

I have also asked what the changelog entry cited above actually means.

The good news is that the SDS1004X-E Bode plot now supports all Siglent SDG waveform generators, not just the X-series.

 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #589 on: March 08, 2018, 01:22:28 pm »
Finally some detail for the SLA1016 LA HW option is available.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/sla1016/



The 'business end' configuration seems quite similar to earlier LA pods for SDS2k and SDS1kX models where a ribbon cable was terminated into the 16ch probe head of which there's two detachable pods of eight channels each plus ground connections. The grabbers appear to be the same USA made type detachable from the soft silicone leads.

This time however we also have a smart controller module that connects to the DSO with a short SBus cable and the module has its own firmware that's upgradable via the DSO's LA user interface through a dedicated firmware upgrade utility.
The SLA1016 must be connected before the firmware upgrade can proceed.
SLA1016 firmware's is already available from Siglent websites.
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=1909&tid=1&T=2
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #590 on: March 08, 2018, 03:03:06 pm »
Finally some detail for the SLA1016 LA HW option is available.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/sla1016/

From the link above:
NOTE: The scope requires firmware version 7.1.6.20 or greater ==> should read 7.6.1.20!

I got the SLA1016 some week ago, but haven't tried it yet because the Sbus cable was missing in my package. An HDMI cable cannot replace it, so I have to wait for the original one.
 

Offline 17_29bis

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #591 on: March 08, 2018, 09:20:13 pm »
Hello,

tautech & Performa01, assuming that we are talking about stock  SLA1016 LA with the accessories to be used with SDS1204X-E and such.  Could you please show us some closeup  pictures of the  logic analyzer probes? To be more precise I am mostly interested in the following info:

a) a picture of the gripper hook (open) for example:



b) a picture of the several (8-9 would be the most optimal) probes attached to a SOIC IC (pitch 0.050 in (1.27 mm)) for example:



Thanks  in advance!
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #592 on: March 08, 2018, 09:30:24 pm »
Hello,

tautech & Performa01, assuming that we are talking about stock  SLA1016 LA with the accessories to be used with SDS1204X-E and such.  Could you please show us some closeup  pictures of the  logic analyzer probes?
I reported on those that come with SDS2kX models here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/msg984510/#msg984510

As mentioned those are fine enough to fit SOIC but not smaller. These new ones don't seem that fine from the pics but I'll know for sure on Monday when my new stock arrives.
Performa01 IIRC has grabbers for 2kX and he'll compare them for sure.  :)
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Offline Bob Sava

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #593 on: March 08, 2018, 09:56:50 pm »
I wonder, since 4ch models can sample twice as fast as 2ch versions (2Gs/s vs 1Gs/s), do they have faster zinq  processor?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #594 on: March 08, 2018, 10:05:42 pm »
I wonder, since 4ch models can sample twice as fast as 2ch versions (2Gs/s vs 1Gs/s), do they have faster zinq  processor?
No Bob they can't.
These 1004X-E's have 2x 1Gsa/s ADC's that are assigned to 2 channels each.
So with all four on the max sampling rate is 500Msa/s per channel.
The SDS1202X-E has just a single 1Gsa/s ADC for the same sampling rate with its only 2 channels.

If you must have faster then the SDS2000X series can provide 1Gsa/s with 4 channels active from their 2x 2Gsa/s ADC architecture.
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Offline 17_29bis

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #595 on: March 08, 2018, 10:22:16 pm »

I reported on those that come with SDS2kX models here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/msg984510/#msg984510
As mentioned those are fine enough to fit SOIC but not smaller. These new ones don't seem that fine from the pics but I'll know for sure on Monday when my new stock arrives.

Those (EZ-Hook i.e.  Agilent  style)   SDS2kX probes are beautiful ones!  I have here 4 different types of probes and these ones are my favorite (got them from DigiKey, wanted to get them in different colors to  distinguish between different LA channels since I never understood why many LA comes with the same color probes). I also have some probes looking similar to the black ones  shown on your picture, that would be (and is) my last choice. Ok, let's wait till your new stock arrives.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #596 on: March 08, 2018, 10:45:48 pm »

I reported on those that come with SDS2kX models here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/msg984510/#msg984510
As mentioned those are fine enough to fit SOIC but not smaller. These new ones don't seem that fine from the pics but I'll know for sure on Monday when my new stock arrives.
Those (EZ-Hook i.e.  Agilent  style)   SDS2kX probes are beautiful ones!  I have here 4 different types of probes and these ones are my favorite (got them from DigiKey, wanted to get them in different colors to  distinguish between different LA channels since I never understood why many LA comes with the same color probes). I also have some probes looking similar to the black ones  shown on your picture, that would be (and is) my last choice. Ok, let's wait till your new stock arrives.
The ones I most prefer are old style Tek grabbers like these in this listing:
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tektronix-Adapter-Mini-Test-Grabber-40V/272670551628?hash=item3f7c6e6e4c:g:YsEAAOSw42dZF6bp

They are just so easy to use.
I've only got a few for ordinary scope probe use for the times when an ordinary probe grabber isn't small enough.
You just need make up some short flying leads with a tinned or looped end and on the other a 0.025" Female crimp to fit onto the 0.025 grabber pin.
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Offline lukier

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #597 on: March 08, 2018, 10:59:16 pm »
Finally some detail for the SLA1016 LA HW option is available.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/sla1016/

Thanks for the heads up. I hope Dave/forum members will do a teardown (if it has DACs and comparators or just simple RC matching and a logic buffer) and a review, because it is a quite expensive option.

From Batronix:
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1104X-E.html

SDS1000X-E-16LA - 113.05 EUR (inc VAT)
Siglent SLA1016 Logic Probes - 342.72 EUR (inc VAT) - I guess Batronix used wrong photo?
Total: 455.77 EUR - almost as much as the scope itself!

What is the logic behind this dual pricing? The hardware is useless without the software option and vice versa. The same for the SAG1021 + SDS1000X-E-FG.
I'm all for making these things optional, but why not include the software option price in the hardware itself?

The only reason I can think of is when one has multiple scopes (classroom?) and only few HW attachments that could be moved between scopes. But then, if the software was already there (no option, just detection of the HW attached to enable the feature) one could move the attachments as well, so this means this dual pricing is to extort some extra money from people running classroom type scenario (as they, for example, need to buy only few AWG dongles but they have to install the SW option on all the scopes).
 

Offline 17_29bis

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #598 on: March 08, 2018, 11:21:17 pm »
The ones I most prefer are old style Tek grabbers like these in this listing:
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tektronix-Adapter-Mini-Test-Grabber-40V/272670551628?hash=item3f7c6e6e4c:g:YsEAAOSw42dZF6bp
They are just so easy to use.

To each his own  8)

May be the original Tektronix grabbers are really so much better, I don't know since I have a replica but this is how it works for me:







 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #599 on: March 08, 2018, 11:27:04 pm »
@lukier

These options give a customer purchase options to fit their budget and just as you've identified for classroom use, also repair labs too.
Free trial usages can determine if one buys only the HW and then later a permanent SW license.
In my position I can have the LA HW in stock but not the SW option that BTW needs be generated for the SN# of each scope.

The AWG plus SW is a little different in that there's 3 possibilities of use case.
Only SAG1021 for Bode plot usage. (no SW required)
Full AWG requirements (HW and SW needed)
Bode plot possible with any Siglent standalone AWG

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