Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 135897 times)

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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #650 on: May 06, 2018, 08:21:08 am »

Quote
If it is to drive a non-Siglent AWG, maybe they can charge for it.
Maybe ?  :-//
It's very unlikely command protocols will work with other brands.

When doing Bode plots the AWG is swept through many frequencies/second so commands must be correct.
Plotting bode plot with a non-Siglent AWG is possible with a protocol translation software.

At certain point after getting the SDG1204X-E oscilloscope I wanted to know if it might be possible to use the bode plot function with a non-Siglent waveform generator.

After some researching and fuzzing I wrote a program in Python which acts as a small server. The oscilloscope connects to it using LAN and the program makes it think that it communicates with a genuine Siglent AWG. The program extracts the commands sent by the scope to the generator, parses them and translates to the command set, that the connected to the PC non-Siglent AWG is able to understand.

The video shows bode plot of an LPF with R=1kOhm and C=0.22μF. On the left you may see my program running on a netbook. For the first try I took the well known JDS6600 generator which is sold on eBay/AliExpress. Later I'll add drivers for two more AWG models.
That surly will be of interest to the community.
Quote
I hope to have during the next weeks enough free time to publish the program on GitHub with detailed description on how it works.
Great work and looking forward to your further efforts.  :-+
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #651 on: May 06, 2018, 08:26:43 am »
Some more vids on the SDS1kX-E models, just recently found:
Done by Jason from Siglent America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AC6glStPwY&feature=youtu.be





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Offline Bob Sava

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #652 on: May 08, 2018, 01:59:58 am »
@3:30

"oops fat fingers" moment is actually finicky, unpredictable universal knob and bad GUI :)

 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #653 on: May 08, 2018, 07:38:19 am »
@3:30

"oops fat fingers" moment is actually finicky, unpredictable universal knob and bad GUI :)
Please do your homework as this vid by Jason was put online Jan 4th before any post release firmware became available. Many things were changed with rev 20R1.
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Offline Bob Sava

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #654 on: May 08, 2018, 10:41:19 am »
Hi

I have SDS1104X-E with the latest firmware.  Scope has good hardware with many features but it could be much better and less frustrating with better software.

There are two issues demonstrated @3:30

1. you can press function key to toggle through menu options but highlighted option does not take effect until x amount of time (sometimes never, IIRC) or you have to depress universal knob to select it. 

This is a bad GUI design as hand has to travel from function key area to universal knob to make a selection and back to function keys to access other function/option/page and back to universal knob and so on...  It would have been much better if there was a way to select by either depressing function key for longer than, for example, 2 seconds, or make the round button next to function keys as enter key.

2. universal knob is too sensitive/imprecise for menu selection, also depressing it can move to the next option, the primary reason for 'fat finger error'

 

Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #655 on: May 08, 2018, 11:05:17 am »
Some more vids on the SDS1kX-E models, just recently found:
Done by Jason from Siglent America.



Just looking at how many hoops you have to jump through to put a measurement on screen (time=4:25 in the video).  :palm:

Rigols just have a row of buttons down the left side. Press button, done.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 12:44:27 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Bob Sava

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #656 on: May 08, 2018, 12:14:31 pm »
On that video you can also see that persistence does not automatically clear when adjusting vertical, or horizontal.
 

Offline 17_29bis

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #657 on: May 08, 2018, 12:47:42 pm »
Hello,

I have SDS1104X-E with the latest firmware.  Scope has good hardware with many features but it could be much better and less frustrating with better software.
There are two issues demonstrated @3:30
1. you can press function key to toggle through menu options but highlighted option does not take effect until x amount of time (sometimes never, IIRC) or you have to depress universal knob to select it. 

I own 1204X-E (running the latest firmware as well) and have been using it quite a bit. I think  "X amount of time" is about 2-3 seconds and I actually like the fact that there is the aforementioned delay since it let me choose the necessary menu item  either slowly scrolling through the menu or using multiple presses. It's interesting that you mentioned "sometimes never" - I cannot remember if I ever saw/noticed something like that.

And yes, the universal know is touchy, but again after using the oscilloscope for some time I got used to it and can easily press the knob without disturbing it.

All in all I like this device but otherwise I would either return it or sell to get a suitable replacement (I had 1202X-E and exchanged it for 1204X-E). And when you find a decent scope with the same  functionality and in the same price range, with a well designed GUI etc - it would be nice to know its name (just for the record).

Edited 1 minute later: oh, I forgot one thing which sooner or later I will have to take care of - very loud fan. My plan in to use some sort of  "DC 12V Four Wire Thermostat PWM Fan Speed Controller Module"



and a quiet fan to replace the stock one(constant speed, loud one).
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 12:55:14 pm by 17_29bis »
 

Offline Bob Sava

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #658 on: May 08, 2018, 09:59:13 pm »
IMO, if Siglent really thinks that their software is finished then Rigol will be back on top as soon as they refresh 1000 series hardware.

As to the noise, two books, on both sides of the scope cut down on fan noise considerably.  For the long run I am planning on 3d printing a manifold in order to improve cooling efficacy and use quieter, slower fan.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 10:01:45 pm by Bob Sava »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #659 on: May 08, 2018, 10:26:08 pm »
Some more vids on the SDS1kX-E models, just recently found:
Done by Jason from Siglent America.



Just looking at how many hoops you have to jump through to put a measurement on screen (time=4:25 in the video).  :palm:

Rigols just have a row on buttons down the left side. Press button, done.
What are you on about ?
You can't have 38 buttons for each of the measurements on each channel, instead you need use a menu to select the ones you want and then you can toggle them all (selected) ON and OFF with a single button.

You really need do more homework.


Edited 1 minute later: oh, I forgot one thing which sooner or later I will have to take care of - very loud fan. My plan in to use some sort of  "DC 12V Four Wire Thermostat PWM Fan Speed Controller Module"



and a quiet fan to replace the stock one(constant speed, loud one).

Of the few shipments of these I've had there are differences in fan noise.
The beta unit I've got is the loudest though not by lots and if I where you rather than control the fan I'd look up the specs of the installed one and attempt to find one quieter. It might be an idea first to try rubber mounting it to eliminate any resonance.

Do let us know how you get on.  :)

IMO, if Siglent really thinks that their software is finished then Rigol will be back on top as soon as they refresh 1000 series hardware.

Bob, you haven't been keeping up to date mate !
There's new FW due out anytime and Performa01 has worked hard with Siglent engineers to get the improvements we've all asked for.
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Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #660 on: May 08, 2018, 11:13:41 pm »
What are you on about ?
You can't have 38 buttons for each of the measurements on each channel, instead you need use a menu to select the ones you want and then you can toggle them all (selected) ON and OFF with a single button.

You really need do more homework.

You know you're not fooling anybody, right?

On a Rigol you have to press a button to switch between horizontal/vertical measurements, sure, and maybe another button to get less common measurements, but it's way faster/easier then going into a menu, twisting the twisty knob through a list of words then crossing your fingers it doesn't select a different value when you push it.

Plus you get little pictures of the measurements, not just names.

This:



vs. this:



??

No contest. Rigol wins hands down.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 11:17:44 pm by Fungus »
 

Online TWMIV

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #661 on: May 09, 2018, 01:00:44 am »
Does anyone have a change log for 7.6.1.20 R2? I just got this scope about a week ago and it seems to already have a never version than what is available on Siglent's website.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 07:38:28 am by TWMIV »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #662 on: May 09, 2018, 08:55:20 am »
Does anyone have a change log for 7.6.1.20 R2? I just got this scope about a week ago and it seems to already have a never version than what is available on Siglent's website.
Yes this occasionally happens with new stock and then we know a new firmware version is imminent.
However sometimes that version is again superseded with new versions publicly released.
We should know what's been addressed in a few days.
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #663 on: May 09, 2018, 11:05:39 am »
What are you on about ?
You can't have 38 buttons for each of the measurements on each channel, instead you need use a menu to select the ones you want and then you can toggle them all (selected) ON and OFF with a single button.

You really need do more homework.

You know you're not fooling anybody, right?

On a Rigol you have to press a button to switch between horizontal/vertical measurements, sure, and maybe another button to get less common measurements, but it's way faster/easier then going into a menu, twisting the twisty knob through a list of words then crossing your fingers it doesn't select a different value when you push it.

Plus you get little pictures of the measurements, not just names.

This:



vs. this:



??

No contest. Rigol wins hands down.
Oh so you want to look deeper into the UI of these DSO's.
Shall we examine User definable Default and how that might assist with Measurement setup/usage.

With X-E's the Default button can be assigned to either factory or user default setting.
With User settings one can have any UI parameter set to just how you want or like it, yes any parameter including any of the measurement types.
Described here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/msg1196101/#msg1196101
When set how you want them those measurements set can be toggled ON and OFF with a single press of Measurements.
Further, the display can be cleansed of unwanted menu clutter by use of the Menu toggle button where the measurements are then parked into the now vacant screen real-estate where the menus were.
These UI helpers/features allow the DSO to be set as we want it, not just as the manufacturer thinks is best.
Then we can also display some statistics too, as so:



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Offline rigol52

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #664 on: May 09, 2018, 05:19:27 pm »

??

No contest. Rigol wins hands down.


Not for me, till Rigol is equipped with FRA (Bode plot) functionality.

BTW: I am currently Rigol owner, and wish to stay, but no without usable Bode plot feature.
 

Offline Bob Sava

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #665 on: May 09, 2018, 11:23:41 pm »
Both seem like compelling arguments.  It would be nice if someone did side-by-side comparison.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #666 on: May 09, 2018, 11:26:46 pm »
No contest. Rigol wins hands down.
Not for me, till Rigol is equipped with FRA (Bode plot) functionality.

I thought we were talking about the UI for showing measurements on screen.  :-//
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #667 on: May 09, 2018, 11:35:33 pm »
Oh so you want to look deeper into the UI of these DSO's.
Shall we examine User definable Default and how that might assist ...

All I'm really interested in is how long it takes you to show (eg.) Vpp on screen when it isn't currently being displayed.

I don't think something so basic should need to be 'examined'. That smells of apologetics.

Here's how to do it on a Rigol DS1054Z:



Simple question: What's the shortest possible equivalent on a Siglent?


And yes, the universal know is touchy, but again after using the oscilloscope for some time I got used to it and can easily press the knob without disturbing it.

Preferably a method where success doesn't depend on your video gaming skill level.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 11:48:22 pm by Fungus »
 

Online TWMIV

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #668 on: May 10, 2018, 03:06:47 am »
I have never used a Rigol scope, but I have used the DSOX: 1k, 2k, and 3k's from Keysight and their measurement selection system is similar to that of the Siglent.

The measurements are selected using a dial just like on the Siglent, however the Siglent allows you to select multiple measurements to display at the same time, while the Keysight has you selecting a single measurement at a time for each measurement "slot".

Really the only thing that is annoying with how Siglent is handling the measurement selection is the amount of time that it takes to move through the entire list of them.

In the end it is just a different way of handling it. Rigol is trading screen space for faster measurement selection.
 

Offline Bob Sava

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #669 on: May 10, 2018, 04:01:33 am »
Siglent's measurement selection 'window' is also obstructing display while selecting options. 

Overall Rigol seems to be better at this since you want to make a quick selection and get back to working with a waveform, on the other hand I cannot think of a slower selection method Siglent could use then the current sequential access    :)

« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 04:06:04 am by Bob Sava »
 

Offline radiolistener

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #670 on: May 10, 2018, 06:38:16 am »
Overall Rigol seems to be better

But Rigol is more expensive.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #671 on: May 10, 2018, 06:57:33 am »
Siglent's measurement selection 'window' is also obstructing display while selecting options. 
There's a Transparency setting in the Display menu, have you not found or used it yet ?

Quote
Overall Rigol seems to be better at this since you want to make a quick selection and get back to working with a waveform, on the other hand I cannot think of a slower selection method Siglent could use then the current sequential access    :)
One usually has a preferred set of measurements you use and once selected they all remain as your preferred measurement types and all are returned to the display with a single press of the Measurement button.
Not some small list of buttons that some manufacturer thinks are the types you should use but your own custom list !



Oh so you want to look deeper into the UI of these DSO's.
Shall we examine User definable Default and how that might assist ...

All I'm really interested in is how long it takes you to show (eg.) Vpp on screen when it isn't currently being displayed.

I don't think something so basic should need to be 'examined'. That smells of apologetics.
Actually it does demand investigation !

Particularly WRT measurement accuracies:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/

I wonder if anything has improved ?
Or will you continue the same MO in further efforts to have members react so they might also be banned ?
Disgraceful behavior and now moderators are aware of it they're unlikely to be duped again by your actions.

Quote
Here's how to do it on a Rigol DS1054Z:



Simple question: What's the shortest possible equivalent on a Siglent ?

Out of the box: one press of the Measurement button.
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Offline Bob Sava

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #672 on: May 10, 2018, 10:59:52 pm »
Siglent's measurement selection 'window' is also obstructing display while selecting options. 
There's a Transparency setting in the Display menu, have you not found or used it yet ?

That particular window is fully opaque and does not follow transparency settings.

Speaking of transparency, there's a bug where, when menu is turned off, measurements window becomes opaque and obstructs part of the waveform.   You can see it in your screenshot, but it's more obvious when more items are selected making window taller.



« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 11:41:25 pm by Bob Sava »
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #673 on: May 11, 2018, 01:15:40 am »
One usually has a preferred set of measurements you use and once selected they all remain as your preferred measurement types and all are returned to the display with a single press of the Measurement button.

So you keep saying but I don't think I've ever worked that way. I hardly ever need the exact same set of measurements twice. :-//

(...and if I feel the need I can simply save the current state as a named setup in the internal memory - you know Rigols can do that, right?)

Actually it does demand investigation !

Particularly WRT (...something completely unrelated, snipped)

Changing the subject? Apologetics in action.

Or will you continue the same MO in further efforts to have members react so they might also be banned ?
Disgraceful behavior and now moderators are aware of it they're unlikely to be duped again by your actions.

Huh?

I made a simple observation based on that video. There's no need for any personal attacks, the only person trying to provoke anything is you.

Rigol is trading screen space for faster measurement selection.

Was that a good decision? In a poll my answer would be "yes".

« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 01:17:28 am by Fungus »
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #674 on: May 11, 2018, 01:24:29 am »
Overall Rigol seems to be better

But Rigol is more expensive.

??

A DS1000Z is one of the cheapest oscilloscopes available, most people pay around $350 for theirs.
 


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