Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 182296 times)

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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #950 on: August 28, 2018, 07:04:47 pm »
sure
I know,  :) I can see that in your post.
I was just checking about Gabri74's probe.

If we have poor probes supplied to Siglent then we need to know, see some pattern and confront the probe manufacturer about a possible problem.
I have pointed Siglent managers to past/other probe problems and they are monitoring the situation.
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Offline SaKhan

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #951 on: August 29, 2018, 10:00:01 am »
Anybody else 17.5 Mpts @250MSa/s with the latest firmware and OS? 
The exported CSV is 17.5 Mpts. This is the only sampling speed with 17.5 Mpts. Higher or lower sampling speed is 14 Mpts.

Btw. is there a setting to manually set the sampling speed? it is annoying to zoom out, take a single capture and zoom in again

Yes the displayed acquisition memory @250MSa/s is wrong, but I think it's just a cosmetic issue. Regarding the zoom in/out can you be more specific of what you are trying to achive?
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #952 on: August 29, 2018, 12:10:12 pm »
Anybody else 17.5 Mpts @250MSa/s with the latest firmware and OS? 
The exported CSV is 17.5 Mpts. This is the only sampling speed with 17.5 Mpts. Higher or lower sampling speed is 14 Mpts.

Btw. is there a setting to manually set the sampling speed? it is annoying to zoom out, take a single capture and zoom in again

Yes the displayed acquisition memory @250MSa/s is wrong, but I think it's just a cosmetic issue. Regarding the zoom in/out can you be more specific of what you are trying to achive?

Do you really know or do you just believe. Or is it somehow fun to talk "trumpths" aka alternative truths instead of truths (facts).

There is nothing wrong and 17.5M points is right, exactly.
It can also calculate simply. 14 Horizontal divs, 5ms/div and 250MSa/s. Just basic school math.
250000000/(1000/5)*14



And even better, checking facts from stored acquisition what do not leave any suspects.:

Scope: SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E  Version 7.1.6.1.25R2
Setup: One single acquisition. Ch1 on, others off, 5ms/div, 250MSa/s, displayed memory length 17.5M

Stored binary file to USB (17536160 bytes):
Read using hex editor.
First data byte position (Starting from byte 0) 
0x8D40
Last data byte position
0x10B949F
It is also last byte in file.

0x10B949F - 0x8D40 = 0x10B075F (data length 17499999+1=17500000 byte)

Btw, same setup .CSV size is ~400M  as also Matlab .DAT file.

And if do not believe math etc, also can zoom in and manually calculate every 17500000 data points but it takes while... ;)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 12:32:34 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline SaKhan

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #953 on: August 29, 2018, 01:36:31 pm »
Anybody else 17.5 Mpts @250MSa/s with the latest firmware and OS? 
The exported CSV is 17.5 Mpts. This is the only sampling speed with 17.5 Mpts. Higher or lower sampling speed is 14 Mpts.

Btw. is there a setting to manually set the sampling speed? it is annoying to zoom out, take a single capture and zoom in again

Yes the displayed acquisition memory @250MSa/s is wrong, but I think it's just a cosmetic issue. Regarding the zoom in/out can you be more specific of what you are trying to achive?

Do you really know or do you just believe. Or is it somehow fun to talk "trumpths" aka alternative truths instead of truths (facts).

There is nothing wrong and 17.5M points is right, exactly.
It can also calculate simply. 14 Horizontal divs, 5ms/div and 250MSa/s. Just basic school math.
250000000/(1000/5)*14



And even better, checking facts from stored acquisition what do not leave any suspects.:

Scope: SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E  Version 7.1.6.1.25R2
Setup: One single acquisition. Ch1 on, others off, 5ms/div, 250MSa/s, displayed memory length 17.5M

Stored binary file to USB (17536160 bytes):
Read using hex editor.
First data byte position (Starting from byte 0) 
0x8D40
Last data byte position
0x10B949F
It is also last byte in file.

0x10B949F - 0x8D40 = 0x10B075F (data length 17499999+1=17500000 byte)

Btw, same setup .CSV size is ~400M  as also Matlab .DAT file.

And if do not believe math etc, also can zoom in and manually calculate every 17500000 data points but it takes while... ;)

Sorry about the confusion. I have the same scope and saw it but didn't do the math. I was just referring to the specs which say max 14Mpts per channel and the 17.5 number looks odd at first.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #954 on: August 29, 2018, 02:41:14 pm »
Anybody else 17.5 Mpts @250MSa/s with the latest firmware and OS? 
The exported CSV is 17.5 Mpts. This is the only sampling speed with 17.5 Mpts. Higher or lower sampling speed is 14 Mpts.

Btw. is there a setting to manually set the sampling speed? it is annoying to zoom out, take a single capture and zoom in again



Yes the displayed acquisition memory @250MSa/s is wrong, but I think it's just a cosmetic issue. Regarding the zoom in/out can you be more specific of what you are trying to achive?

Do you really know or do you just believe. Or is it somehow fun to talk "trumpths" aka alternative truths instead of truths (facts).

There is nothing wrong and 17.5M points is right, exactly.
It can also calculate simply. 14 Horizontal divs, 5ms/div and 250MSa/s. Just basic school math.
250000000/(1000/5)*14



And even better, checking facts from stored acquisition what do not leave any suspects.:

Scope: SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E  Version 7.1.6.1.25R2
Setup: One single acquisition. Ch1 on, others off, 5ms/div, 250MSa/s, displayed memory length 17.5M

Stored binary file to USB (17536160 bytes):
Read using hex editor.
First data byte position (Starting from byte 0) 
0x8D40
Last data byte position
0x10B949F
It is also last byte in file.

0x10B949F - 0x8D40 = 0x10B075F (data length 17499999+1=17500000 byte)

Btw, same setup .CSV size is ~400M  as also Matlab .DAT file.

And if do not believe math etc, also can zoom in and manually calculate every 17500000 data points but it takes while... ;)

Sorry about the confusion. I have the same scope and saw it but didn't do the math. I was just referring to the specs which say max 14Mpts per channel and the 17.5 number looks odd at first.

No problem. Only want right information to readers.

Using 5ms/div (only this) it can capture 17,5M max.
As there is two ADC and two acq. memory bank it can do 17.5M for two channels simultaneously if user select one CH from Ch1 or Ch2 (ADC1)and other channel from Ch3 or Ch4. (ADC2)
If user select two Ch from same bank mac is 7M for each channel. But also then samplerate is reduced. (5ms/div 100MSa/s)

It is also good to note that example using fast "segmented memory" acquisition there is more memory than just 14M.
Example 7574 segment for Ch1, each segment 7ksample total 53M. Or example Ch1 and Ch3 both 7ksample and both 7574 segments. Total over 100Msample. (this example using 500ns/div and Ch1or2 and Ch3or4 and max segments 7574 and samplerate for both channels 1GSa/s)
These are nearly up to numbers. This amount of memory is not available with all settings of course.
And same amount for always background running normal speed history buffer.
(note that history buffer is cleared always when change settings.)


If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Max2018

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #955 on: September 01, 2018, 01:30:33 pm »
@rf-loop This is just one of the things adding up to the feeling that this scope could be more with better software. There are so many little things where the hardware would be capable of it but there is no software option to use this potential. It feels more like they designed an analog scope with digital parts inside.
I mean why are the 17.5 Mpts only available for 250MSa/s and not for more speeds or a automatic peak picking of the five highest peaks in fft mode?

Another thing regarding binary files. Siglent has a guide on their website: https://www.siglentamerica.com/operating-tip/extract-data-binary-file-sds2000x-sds1000x/ but it does not match what the actual file looks like. Do you had more success reading the file header?
For example 0x14 is 03 and according to siglents guide there should be mso_ch_open_state[0] (0 or 1 allowed).
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #956 on: September 01, 2018, 02:16:50 pm »

Another thing regarding binary files. Siglent has a guide on their website: https://www.siglentamerica.com/operating-tip/extract-data-binary-file-sds2000x-sds1000x/ but it does not match what the actual file looks like. Do you had more success reading the file header?
For example 0x14 is 03 and according to siglents guide there should be mso_ch_open_state[0] (0 or 1 allowed).

I do not believe this old guide is up to date, even after they have added also X-E models in its title.
It is clear that this is not at all valid least for SDS1004X-E models.
Example if look where data starts. It is totally different.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 08:08:08 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline insine

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #957 on: September 01, 2018, 07:28:46 pm »
I'm considering buying SDS1104X-E, but just noticed in the datasheet that UART triggering (so probably also decoding) works only to 334 kBaud.
I'm wondering if this is a marketing decision, or just they didn't think anyone needs more than that?
Modern MCUs can go over 10MBaud (for example STM32F4 has 11.25MBaud UART), so 334k is a really low limit.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #958 on: September 01, 2018, 07:41:46 pm »
I'm considering buying SDS1104X-E, but just noticed in the datasheet that UART triggering (so probably also decoding) works only to 334 kBaud.
I'm wondering if this is a marketing decision, or just they didn't think anyone needs more than that?
Modern MCUs can go over 10MBaud (for example STM32F4 has 11.25MBaud UART), so 334k is a really low limit.
You asked the same question last December here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1367020/#msg1367020
At that time we had FW version 7.6.1.12 and UART custom speed was Max 5M.

I can't say if that's changed sorry, I could check but all units are sold and my demo is out on loan.
Maybe some other member will check what their unit can do with the latest FW.
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Offline insine

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #959 on: September 01, 2018, 08:45:49 pm »
Thanks, tautech, I completely forgot about that :) 5M is already quite decent.
I've been jutst looking at the datasheet and it still mentions only 334k.

BTW, I've also asked about pulse count measurement and N-th edge trigger. Any news about that?

I like to use a pulse count when debugging MCU firmware.
I know that event count can be some substitution for pulse count, but I think it is limited only to 700 events, which is quite low when you have 14 Meg of "Curr".

 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #960 on: September 01, 2018, 08:57:59 pm »
Thanks, tautech, I completely forgot about that :) 5M is already quite decent.
I've been jutst looking at the datasheet and it still mentions only 334k.

BTW, I've also asked about pulse count measurement and N-th edge trigger. Any news about that?

I like to use a pulse count when debugging MCU firmware.
I know that event count can be some substitution for pulse count, but I think it is limited only to 700 events, which is quite low when you have 14 Meg of "Curr".
Sorry, like I said previously I don't have a unit available to check for you but should have some later this coming week. Others might like to check what the latest FW offers.

Just be sure you're looking at the most up to date datasheet; E03B
https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/05/SDS1000X-E_DataSheet_DS0101E-E03B.pdf
UART Trigger is listed: Baud Rate (Custom) 300 bit/s ~ 5000000 bit/s
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #961 on: September 03, 2018, 10:13:13 am »
Most peoples know these kind of things but still I can see frequently some peoples are confused with example trigger frequency counter (right top corner of display) and then automatic measurements displayed frequency specially when they display very different freq.

Here are images what show extremely simple case.
Many times it may be difficult to see on display without further adjustments why  trigger counter show "wrong".  It need know and understand. It count trigger treshold crossing (of course with hysteresis and direction selective)! Specially when there is non repetitive or noisy or complex signal it may display "wrong" even when it looks like signal is steady and well trig'd.

In first image there is 14.28MHz carrier AM modulated with 3.14kHz sine.
Next image 14.28MHz carrier alone (but now with DC offset just fore show RMS and Stdev measurement)


14.28MHz carrier, AM modulated with 3.14kHz sine.

Note trigger level what is around half way between modulation bottom and peak. Around half of time signal is under trigger level and around other half it crosses trigger level and is counted. This is why it count in this case around half of true carrier freq. 
Of course if adjust trigger level to middle (white mark) then it counts all cycles. But then it do not trig displayed waveform to modulating frequency, then it trigs to carrier.

Here can also see alternative method to set trigger for AM modulation. Usual method is adjust suitable HoldOff time. HoldOff method often fails if modulating frequency change lot.

Some times this method I use here (just for simple example) works better with variable modualtion frequency. Just with this setting mod freq can change around between 100Hz to 12kHz with around 50% mod depth and give stable trigger. (use other interval time limit if need)

Other example in same picture is using Gated measurement. And for clarify, there is also used normal cursors for show that in Siglent normal cursors are not used for Gated measurements. Cursors just manually moved to show mod frequency.

For Gated measurements there is separate Gate cursors (A and B)
Normally also in zoomed mode automatic measurements are done from full memory (upper window) but with measurement gate user can select position and width what is used for measurements.
Here I have set  Gate for measure so narrow that it is bit less than zoomed window. (white Gate cursors can see in zoomed window. Now it measure only from this part. This is how can reject measurement area to zoomed window or part of it. And it show around right carrier frequency.
It is bit tricky to adjust Gate cursors for zoomed narrow window. Siglent need develop it bit more user friendly and so that if I change other some setting it do not reset Gate cursors positions to default.



Here is same carrier alone but added some DC offset. Trigger normal and rising edge. As can see trigger freq counter count normally and freq is right. It count ok as long as every cycle rising edge cross trigger level and every falling edge goes below trigger hysteresis level what is of course under trigger level when trigger mode is rising edge. (Trigger noise reject change this hysteresis some amount)
 
In this image is also other thing. As can see carrier have DC offset. We want know RMS, but in this case we want know it as AC without its DC offset but still want see/know this offset (offset can also measure if need). Simply. Measure Stdev and there is this RMS without DC offset. It is just math and it compute it from full capture raw data. (Siglent do not decimate)
For compare, there is also RMS measurement and this is this signal RMS including its DC offset so it is its "heating power".
Of course input coupling AC removes DC offset but then it is not measurable and visible. Also AC coupling do not remove possible small internal DC offset if we work with very small signal whereby the error can be significant.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 05:25:47 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 
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Offline MT

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #962 on: September 03, 2018, 05:13:10 pm »
Are there a bug list somewhere on the SDS1104X as there where for 1054z? I hope not or at least is a lot smaller! :scared:
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #963 on: September 05, 2018, 04:33:59 pm »
Small add. (FRom other thread. This thread is better for this because scope is SDS1000X-E 4 channel version.)


About XY mode. FW ...25R2

Here two images.
Other with AM (noise) mod and other without. Just for somehow imagine intensity grad. (not at all best example)
Also need note that live image looks bit more smooth than still image. (human eye/brain effect)

IN XY mode it can still also push these single XY´s to wfm history buffer.
It is easy to see how many there is and looking time stamps how much time it take and also there is interval.

Siglent do not directly plot XY. It capture both traces and then construct XY display from these. But after this process this product is pushed to wfm history buffer fifo.
Both traces are captured using current memory length in use and using current samplerate.
This make possible all automatic measurements. Including of course freq, rise time etc... just all.
Also Trigger functions available in XY mode.

But as all, also this have advantages and disadvantages. Method used in Siglent is not so easy to use as is direct XY draw.  With pure direct XY draw just connect signal and adjust X and Y axis  V/div. No need care memory and time scale. It works like analog scope, exept of course mostly more slow and "rough" trace.

What ever method digital scope use, if it have 8 bit ADC there is ADC itself noise and analog front end noise. X and Y vector have max 256 levels and now both have noise so every XY vector plot is not at all 1x1 pixel or 2x2 pixel on the TFT screen. It looks rough if compare old analog scope.

Siglent principle for XY is same as in Yt mode. Exept that Yt is only intermediate product. After they are ready, from these two parallel Yt captures it forms an XY image. Think sinewaves in both channels.
First both channels capture sinewave. If sinewaves have 90 degree phase shift you see circle in XY display.
And now important: If this Yt capture do not contain least one full cycle what happen. Now we can see only circle arc part. And more fun. If this Yt capture is well triggered this circle arc part position is fixed.
Now if we loose trig this circle arc part position is "random". Now we can do longer time Xt captures so that it have least one cycle and circle is full. Just rise t/div. Depending current timebase you can also control current samplerate adjusting memory data length if it is possible with current other settings.
If you are not sure how it looks in Xt display just change to YT mode and look. After some experience together with knowledge about principle you can easy control these things without swap between YT and XY mode (XY on/off) for optimum display with current signals. 
Just forget how analog scope work or digital scope with plain XY plot...  Siglent XY mode used principle need you control both channels V/div as always need with all kind of XY. But then you need also control bacround  of XY working Xt capture length using t/div. Also you adjust trigger least if need do time dependent measurements. Also in some cases it may be useful manually set memory upper limit for reduce samplerate. Specially with some low freq signals it may give more nice image reducing trace fatness (kind of noise limiter).
It may feel complex but in praactice, exercise with some examples using true signals it can fast understand basic principles of settings and after then you may get much more than with simple XY method.

Also, even with XY mode waveform history buffer is in use. You can stop and play back and look every single XY based to every single XT capture. In this case buffer include these XY frames and not these original YT captures behind these XY products.

- Trigged or untrigged XY
- Full measurements (using X and Y channels not displayed Yt acquisitions)
- intensity gradation
- History max 29140 single XY frames. (100ns/div)
- Up to >60000 wfm/s (this max measured using 1MHz CH1 and CH2, 100ns/s, trig: rising edge, no automatic measurements, acq mode: normal, fast. Cursors X-Y on. Currently in use  Yt memory length 700pts) If timebase is 100us/div and current used length 700k it can 100wfm/s and max history buffer las 38 XY's



With these settings in images it have around 8400wfm/s.
Of course this is not display refresh speed. It is roughly 25frame/s (same as in all modes)
As in normal Yt mode all captures what are made in one TFT perioare overlaid in this TFT frame and produced intensity gradation.
As in Yt mode wfm/s speed depends many settings.

Also tested using 100ns and 500MSa current memory length is 700pts and this can reach bit over 60kwfm/s speed if measurements also off. Tested using 6MHz signals. Persist and cursors do not affect.
Wit this setup max history buffer is max 29140 XY last products. Of course all these individual XY's can look separately or play in history buffer. 
No image, looks around as these others.






« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 06:00:40 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #964 on: September 07, 2018, 01:10:08 pm »
Reserved for later use.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 01:49:03 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #965 on: September 07, 2018, 01:11:47 pm »
Reserved for later use with previous message. (because images limit in one msg.)

« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 09:14:34 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #966 on: September 08, 2018, 05:53:07 pm »
Does it make sense to spend the hundred bucks and bump up to the PP215's from the PP510's?

I got 4 Pico TA131 probes for $48 total shipped (eBay / best offer). There's better deals out there if you haven't already spent the money.
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #967 on: September 08, 2018, 06:48:17 pm »
which is quite low when you have 14 Meg of "Curr".

Hahahahaha, I hate that stupid label! :-DD
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #968 on: September 09, 2018, 02:12:27 pm »
which is quite low when you have 14 Meg of "Curr".

Hahahahaha, I hate that stupid label! :-DD

It is perhaps fun but also example Rigol use it in newest 7000 serie.
In measurements statistics there is Cur and so on... and it is not meaning electric current.
My native language is not at all english  but I have never thinked anything other when I see this Curr than it mean currently in use. Or is it better there read cur and then it is not fun if I think it is dog? for separate it from user memory setting there need read something.
There may be user selected 14M but currently it use example 700 points. How ever it is named and displayed there come least some who ask what is this meaning when there read  14 (together with some other characters before and/or after it if it is currently using 14 sample points)  and user have selected (max limit) 14M

Who get help about this?
 :-\

If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline wpwrak

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #969 on: September 09, 2018, 09:51:57 pm »
By the way, if you want meaningful timestamps on files saved to USB and you already have rooted your 1000X-E, then this may be useful:

While there is no RTC in the 1x04X-E (I don't know about the 1202X-E), the scope cannot keep the time when powered down. However, if it has Internet access, it can acquire accurate time from there, using NTP. On my 1104X-E with firmware 7.1.6.1.25 R2, this works as follows:

- connect Ethernet (all this should also work with a wireless dongle, but I don't have one so I don't know if there are any quirks when setting it up),
- in Utility > IO > IP Set configure the network such that the scope can reach the Internet (i.e., the gateway field must have the IP address of your router),
- get to the root prompt,
- run
Code: [Select]
ntpd -n -d -p 171.66.97.126
You should first get a few lines looking like this:
Code: [Select]
ntpd: sending query to 171.66.97.126
ntpd: reply from 171.66.97.126: offset:+1536499839.691361 delay:0.052936 status:0x24 strat:2 refid:0xf0f4cf82 rootdelay:0.154345 reach:0x01

This is ntpd acquiring time from the server 171.66.97.126 (one of the addresses returned for us.pool.ntp.org. They are geo-optimized, so you should find out what pool.ntp.org translates to in your area, and use that.) Once it is satisfied with the stability of the source, it sets the system time:

Code: [Select]
ntpd: setting time to 2018-09-09 13:33:03.042840 (offset +1536499839.688809s)

If you now write a screenshot or such to a USB pen drive, the file will have the correct timestamp (in UTC). Since you're setting the system time, this could also affect other things, but I don't know if there is anything where you'd notice in this particular case.

You have to enter the IP address of the time server because there is a library incompatibility breaking name resolution in this version of the firmware. Fixing this is left as an exercise to the reader (or Siglent ;-)

ntpd will now run until you shut down or reboot the scope. After the next boot, the time will start at zero (1970-01-01) again.

If you want the scope to always use NTP, you need to make it run ntpd each time it starts. The normal way to do this on Linux would be to add it to a suitable place in /etc, in this case /etc/init.d/rcS (on a regular Linux system you wouldn't touch things in /etc/init.d/ for local changes, but put them in /etc/rc.local or similar. But this system is a bit different.) Unfortunately, the root file system - which includes everything under /etc - cannot be easily changed in this case. You could with a bit of an effort, but let's keep this simple.

Towards the end of the boot process, rcS launches the application: /usr/bin/siglent/*.app. This is normally /usr/bin/siglent/sds1000b.app, but nothing stops us from putting a script there that comes in the alphabet before sds1000b.

Code: [Select]
cd /usr/bin/siglent
mount -o rw,remount .
cat >aaa.app <<END
 #!/bin/sh
ntpd -p 171.66.97.126
exec "$@"
END
chmod 755 aaa.app

The steps above: go to /usr/bin/siglent, make the file system writeable, write the script (launched ntpd, then executes what followed on the command line -
in this case /usr/bin/siglent/sds1000b.app), make the script executable. Now we can reboot:

Code: [Select]
sync
reboot

After the scope has booted, run pstree. You should see ntpd. And when you check the system time with "date", it should match the current time (in UTC).

Note that ntpd constantly monitors the time and makes small adjustments when it detects drift. These adjustments mean that the speed of time is variable. Normally, this is unnoticeable, but in case you need a very constant speed of time (but still subject to any variations the oscillator in the scope may experience), you could invoke ntpd with the option -q. Run ntpd without options or arguments for the complete usage description.

If you can't or don't want to let the scope reach the global Internet but it is connected to your LAN, then you could also configure another device (Linux PC, router, etc.) as time server and let the scope obtain its time from there.

In case someone from Siglent reads this: if you're considering adding NTP support as a standard feature, please have a look at https://www.ntppool.org/en/vendors.html. Since you'll be adding a great many client devices talking to the NTP servers, precautions need to be taken to make sure you don't overwhelm them. You could of course also run your own time servers.

Edit: change example time server from one at what seems to be a small company in Paraguay to one at Stanford University.
Edit 2: added #!/bin/sh. It works without it, but that's untidy.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 01:31:04 am by wpwrak »
 
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #970 on: September 09, 2018, 10:45:33 pm »
Very cool. 
Thanks very much for sharing this and writing it up. :clap:
Forwarded to Siglent for them to hopefully implement ASAP.
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #971 on: September 10, 2018, 01:33:42 pm »
While there is no RTC in the 1x04X-E (I don't know about the 1202X-E), the scope cannot keep the time when powered down. However, if it has Internet access, it can acquire accurate time from there, using NTP.

Cool!

I had been thinking on proposing this idea but I had no way of testing it.

If you opt for a permanent change to the FS maybe I can help (if Siglent doesn't).

BEWARE: On the safe side, you should return the /usr/bin/siglent mount to RO. Leaving it at RW could bring undesirable results!
 
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Offline bluejedi

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #972 on: September 10, 2018, 10:32:32 pm »
Very cool. 
Thanks very much for sharing this and writing it up. :clap:
Forwarded to Siglent for them to hopefully implement ASAP.

This is what I already suggested here:

Quote
Add Time and Date support:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1756706/#msg1756706

Please see all four time and date related suggestions (bullets). I would appreciate if you can forward all four to Siglent
My suggestions are functional descriptions. Siglent will know best how to implement them.


@wpwrak has suggested an implementation for my first two bullets, for which thanks. That solution however requires hacking the scope and is not integrated into the UI. It also does not implement the features from my last two bullets.

I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).


I would appreciate if you also can forward the following suggestions to Siglent (can significantly improve the readability/visibility of overlay text like 'All measure on'):
Quote
Improve the readability of overlays
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1713224/#msg1713224

Thanks

« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 10:46:50 pm by bluejedi »
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #973 on: September 11, 2018, 07:51:10 am »
@wpwrak has suggested an implementation for my first two bullets, for which thanks. That solution however requires hacking the scope and is not integrated into the UI. It also does not implement the features from my last two bullets.

I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).

1. You can, ATM, use the SCPI SHELLCMD command and as a parameter pass your NTP string command. This doesnt require any "hacking".

2. After sync the clock, you can kill the NTP daemon.
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #974 on: September 11, 2018, 08:13:34 am »
I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).
Keeping proper ntp synchronization, although simple (the support is there, in the Linux system they use) is maybe overkill.

But just a ntpdate to set the proper date and time at boot time would be really useful. It would mean the files would be timestamped with a usable date and time, just like it had a RTC.
 
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