Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes

[tv84]

Code: [Select]

SHELLCMD ntpd -q -p 171.66.97.126


Then, I think you should do it like this:

Code: [Select]

SHELLCMD $(ntpd -q -p 171.66.97.126)

[bluejedi]

@wpwrak has suggested an implementation for my first two bullets, for which thanks. That solution however requires hacking the scope and is not integrated into the UI. It also does not implement the features from my last two bullets.

I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).

1. You can, ATM, use the SCPI SHELLCMD command and as a parameter pass your NTP string command. This doesnt require any "hacking".

2. After sync the clock, you can kill the NTP daemon.

Nice but I just want to press the 'On' button and then things should work without having to do any fancy stuff / perform manual actions etc. and without having to perform any actions on some PC.

[bluejedi]

Although it gives a little more work everytime you want to save files, another option is:

Since to save the files you need to have the USB drive inserted, one can run a script (residing in the USB) only when you want to do a "save files" session.

For that, you only have to create a proper script that activates the ntpd and I can make an .ADS from it.

How to: With that, you can run an "Update" with that .ADS just before doing the "save files" session. It takes 1 or 2 seconds and you're ready to save files with the proper datetime.

Benefit: This method, like the SHELLCMD, doesnt imply any changes to the scope's settings and is more complete than the SHELLCMD because you can execute a more complex script (launch NTPD, kill it, etc..).

That executes with root privilege?
If so then this appears to be a serious security issue.

[tv84]

Nice but I just want to press the 'On' button and then things should work without having to do any fancy stuff / perform manual actions etc. and without having to perform any actions on some PC.

If that's the case then do what wpwrak described in #969. No Siglent intervention needed.

That executes with root privilege?

Take a guess.

[bugi]

I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).

Keeping proper ntp synchronization, although simple (the support is there, in the Linux system they use) is maybe overkill.

But just a ntpdate to set the proper date and time at boot time would be really useful. It would mean the files would be timestamped with a usable date and time, just like it had a RTC.

Not just at boot time, but also whenever there has been no time synchronization after boot and a network cable is connected (if the device can detect such at runtime), or when it has been long enough since last sync (preferably adjustable period). The last case would handle (rare?) situations where the scope is being used 24/7 and never turned off or disconnected/reconnected to network, so the periodic resync prevents eventual drifting to get out of hand (assuming exact time is important).
Also, would be nice if the user has an option to configure the time server to be used. E.g. in some cases the LAN might not be connected to internet at all, and a local network time server would be used instead. Or, as I have noticed (only) couple times, the preconfigured time server has since vanished, or service has changed to only provide time for better tier clients (i.e. other time servers), not for ordinary end users.

[SMB784]

@wpwrak has suggested an implementation for my first two bullets, for which thanks. That solution however requires hacking the scope and is not integrated into the UI. It also does not implement the features from my last two bullets.

I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).

1. You can, ATM, use the SCPI SHELLCMD command and as a parameter pass your NTP string command. This doesnt require any "hacking".

2. After sync the clock, you can kill the NTP daemon.

Nice but I just want to press the 'On' button and then things should work without having to do any fancy stuff / perform manual actions etc. and without having to perform any actions on some PC.

I'm confused, you want a cheap and capable oscilloscope with all of the bells and whistles so you can fix and/or work on electronics, and yet you don't want to do anything to make your chosen device capable of the things you want it to do?  That seems like a tall order.

What you have is a great device with lots of features that is still under development, and you have a dogged group of engineers and scientists (the people in this thread) who are dedicated to finding ways to make this device better at no additional cost to you.  You have the solution to your problem in your hand, use it instead of complaining about how a device under development doesn't come with everything you want out of the box.

[tv84]

Not just at boot time, but also whenever there has been no time synchronization after boot and a network cable is connected (if the device can detect such at runtime), or when it has been long enough since last sync (preferably adjustable period). The last case would handle (rare?) situations where the scope is being used 24/7 and never turned off or disconnected/reconnected to network, so the periodic resync prevents eventual drifting to get out of hand (assuming exact time is important).
Also, would be nice if the user has an option to configure the time server to be used. E.g. in some cases the LAN might not be connected to internet at all, and a local network time server would be used instead. Or, as I have noticed (only) couple times, the preconfigured time server has since vanished, or service has changed to only provide time for better tier clients (i.e. other time servers), not for ordinary end users.

This is why is not easy to support all families. I don't see Siglent doing a "huge" development just for those people that are willing to connect their scopes to the net...

I agree with the arguments but think that the SCPI command might be the easiest way in the near future, specially because of the intricacies of each user setup.

[bluejedi]

I'm confused, you want a cheap and capable oscilloscope with all of the bells and whistles so you can fix and/or work on electronics, and yet you don't want to do anything to make your chosen device capable of the things you want it to do?  That seems like a tall order.

What you have is a great device with lots of features that is still under development, and you have a dogged group of engineers and scientists (the people in this thread) who are dedicated to finding ways to make this device better at no additional cost to you.  You have the solution to your problem in your hand, use it instead of complaining about how a device under development doesn't come with everything you want out of the box.

"instead of complaining about how a device under development doesn't come with everything you want out of the box."
Eh.. don't start making things up..

Unfortunately I see only very limited constructive suggestions for Siglent (like the one linked below) in this thread. Even while clearly marked as 'Suggestion for new features', several people appear to have difficulty reading them and react only to the latest posts in this thread instead.

Add Time and Date support:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1756706/#msg1756706

"device under development"
The device has been released somewhere end of last year. Any bugs should be fixed and new features may be added but if and which will be decided by Siglent. The users here can come up with new suggestions and possibly motivate Siglent to actually implement them (and @tautech can forward them).

I have many devices that require tweaks but I dislike managing them all manually and having to fix things again after the next software/firmware update. So I preferably want certain features to be supported by the manufacturer and supported in the UI, which is why I have taken the efforts of contributing several posts with suggestions for new features (with clear description) and reported a security bug in this thread.
So who is complaining here?

FYI: my SDS1104X-E is @SDS1204X-E.

[bluejedi]

"... just for those people that are willing to connect their scopes to the net ..."

Well, statements like that are surely not going to motivate Siglent..
Luckily they have already taken the efforts to ad networking support (hardware and software) to the device. 

I'm not sure if with "connect their scopes to the net" you are referring to the internet, but querying a NTP server to get date/time will not expose the scope to the internet.

See my post with suggestions for adding Time and Date support. User configurable NTP server URL and update frequency are already included there.
Let's hope Siglent is willing to add support for it. It does not require "huge development". The development efforts for adding time and date support will probably be relatively small.

[tv84]

Unfortunately I see only very limited constructive suggestions for Siglent like the one below in this thread. Even while clearly marked as 'suggestions for new features', several people appear to have difficulty reading them and react to the latest posts in this thread instead.
...
I have many devices that require tweaks but I dislike managing them all manually and having to fix things again after the next software/firmware update. So I preferably want certain features to be supported by the manufacturer and supported in the UI, which is why I have made the efforts to add several suggestions for new features and reported a security bug in this thread.
So who is complaining here?

FYI my SDS1104X-E is @SDS1204X-E.

We all understand that you made improvement suggestions and that's fine. What wpwrak wrote is a "how to" achieve some of the goals that you want implemented with what we have available. (I think he didn't want to take you from the podium.)

There's is no problem with that also and, while there is no official implementation, it's the best way to solve the datetime problem.

Regarding all the tweaks that everybody does, it seems you like many others, after all, do the tweaks because you decide you need them. But then you must understand that if you think/wish an equipment of this kind of price should come equipped with all the imaginable features (without requiring any additional tweaks) then you should do the extreme tweak right from the beginning: buy a better equipment that guarantees those features.

[tautech]

@bluejedi
When you first made the time and date suggestion I did not think or know how how it could be accomplished.
Now I now more and see it can, and not too hard for the engineers to do.
It is true if timestamps are important to the user then another instrument would have been a better choice.

I do know the NTP server idea is being investigated but at this time that is all I know and like many here I hope it will be adopted as a solution for timestamps.
With the WiFi this will be a good solution.

[bluejedi]

@tv84
Yes sure, all practical suggestions, implementations, hacks, scripts (whatever) are welcome and appreciated.
('Podiums' play not an issue here, but fragmented information, scattered partial repetitions and unnecessary related discussions are not going to contribute to constructive suggestions to Siglent.)

Demand from their community is what can motivate Siglent to add additional features. Providing good software/firmware support benefits both current and potential users but also benefits Siglent (assuming the models are not end-of-life).

[bluejedi]

@tautech
"When you first made the time and date suggestion I did not think or know how how it could be accomplished.
Now I now more and see it can, and not too hard for the engineers to do.
It is true if timestamps are important to the user then another instrument would have been a better choice."

I can understand that you do not understand the specifics, requirements and implementation details for every new feature suggestion in this thread but Siglent hopefully will.
It is not doable (or always possible) to explain every suggestion in detail with technical/implementation details here (and Siglent will probably know best how to implement a new feature because they built the device).
I therefore try to describe my suggestions on a functional level (with some technical/implementation hints).
My suggestions are not 'unfunded nice to haves' but are based on what I think will be a substantial (usability) improvement that is technically feasible without requiring huge efforts.

"With the WiFi this will be a good solution"
Requesting time and date from an NTP server via the network works for both wireless and wired network connections (my scope is connected wired to the network).

Sure, SDS1000X-E is not Siglent's top of the range, but price/functionality wise it is probably a popular series. Not using actual date/time stamps on files is quite uncommon and I find it surprising that this (and a RTC) is lacking.
I am not an Electronics Engineer by profession so SDS1104X-E for me is already top of the range. 

[tautech]

"With the WiFi this will be a good solution"
Requesting time and date from an NTP server via the network works for both wireless and wired network connections (my scope is connected wired to the network).

Sure but not everyone's is.
I prefer the WiFi connection option as you can use it anywhere.
FYI, I have used a LAN connection many times but it restricts portability.

[bluejedi]

@tautech
I meant that it works for both situations, that it is a good solution not only for WiFi.
(English is not my native language so I may have interpreted your message different from how it was meant.)

[Sparrow]

anyone have problems with long PSK's on wifi?
I am using a long PSK ~25 characters long with spaces in it, and it doesn't seem to be working.

There is a bug with network SSIDs which contain spaces. The scope will see this network but won't be able to connect to it.

Siglent confirmed this bug but I don't know when it will be fixed.

My WiFi dongle was not supplied by Siglent and works fine with networks without spaces in SSIDs.

Is it the Siglent or the TP-Link TL-WN725N that gives the problem with spaces in the SSID?
I once bought a TP-Link wireless router that didn't allow spaces in the SSID, when all my other devices did. Replaced it with a Netgear and all was well again.

[4x1md]

anyone have problems with long PSK's on wifi?
I am using a long PSK ~25 characters long with spaces in it, and it doesn't seem to be working.

There is a bug with network SSIDs which contain spaces. The scope will see this network but won't be able to connect to it.

Siglent confirmed this bug but I don't know when it will be fixed.

My WiFi dongle was not supplied by Siglent and works fine with networks without spaces in SSIDs.

Is it the Siglent or the TP-Link TL-WN725N that gives the problem with spaces in the SSID?
I once bought a TP-Link wireless router that didn't allow spaces in the SSID, when all my other devices did. Replaced it with a Netgear and all was well again.

I couldn't test it with other modules because the oscilloscope does not support them. If I have free time, I'll try to test the Wi-Fi dongle with a computer to see if it works.

[tautech]

New firmware for SDS1*04X-E models.
At this time only the Hamburg links seems to work. 

Version 6.1.26
7.5 MB

https://www.siglenteu.com/download/6586/

Changelog
1. Added SCPI command to set up gated measurements and return the data.
2. Customers can save the result of decode list table to a CSV file.
3. Modified the color of FFT to match the trace selected.
4. There are some times of quick calibration during warming up the SDS XE. Added a menu below Utility to disable the quick calibration so that the sampling isn’t interrupted.
5. Created software that converts binary waveform data to CSV. It can be downloaded from the embedded web server on the scope.
6. Fixed the bug: “Screen Save” button on web page does not work with some browsers.
7. Fixed the bug: The setting of Educational mode can’t be saved after power off.
8. Fixed a bug with MSO decoding. and the SLA1016 firmware also needs to be updated to 8.1.11.
9. Fixed the bug: The binary block returned by the WAVEFORM command contains the length of the block in the “#9” header. This length is incorrect when the NP option of the WFSU command is used; the header then gives the memory depth instead of the actual size of the block.
10. Fixed the bug of the scope response from the WAVEFORM command prefixes the binary block with the string "ALL," even when "CHDR OFF" is used.
11. Added exiting the on-screen keyboard by OK button.

[benii]

Looking to get this scope and use that bode plotting feature but a bit confused on what configuration to get. You can get that SAG1021 AWG that plugs with usb and I suppose you need to buy a separate AWG licence also to use that dongle... But apparently you could get a siglent brand SDG (1032X?) external AWG that can also plug in with usb(?) and use the automated plotting feature without a licence? Some page stated that external AWG doesnt require a licence for some reason.

e. ok found some old comments, 1104X-E + SDG1032X should work together out of the box, nice.

[rf-loop]

Looking to get this scope and use that bode plotting feature but a bit confused on what configuration to get. You can get that SAG1021 AWG that plugs with usb and I suppose you need to buy a separate AWG licence also to use that dongle... But apparently you could get a siglent brand SDG (1032X?) external AWG that can also plug in with usb(?) and use the automated plotting feature without a licence? Some page stated that external AWG doesnt require a licence for some reason.

e. ok found some old comments, 1104X-E + SDG1032X should work together out of the box, nice.

Bode plot do not need AWG licence. SDS1104X-E BodePlot function directly controls SDG via USB.
AWG licence is needed if you buy SAG1021 AWG and you want use it also other things than just BodePlot. But without licence you can not control SAG1021 for any other purpose.  If you want use it at signal generator for other purpose than just BodePlot then you need this licence and then using oscilloscope controls/menu you can adjust this SAG1021 settings.

Example with SDG1032X and SDS1104X-E you do not need this AWG licence at all. (and you have lot of better generator)

[Chuki]

New to scopes. Testing my new 1204x-e. What really makes think bad is the fact that just sitting scope on the bench is showing 20-30 mV on its outputs without probes connected.
Is it for sure problem with mine example or might it be a problem with bad 220v line/ground?

Attch. 59-63 what I see on display of 1204 without probes or cables in it.
39-40 - what is seen in the "220v/50" line of my socket.

Please advice should I go back asap to the dealer and change this one example.

[tautech]

New to scopes. Testing my new 1204x-e. What really makes think bad is the fact that just sitting scope on the bench is showing 20-30 mV on its outputs without probes connected.
Is it for sure problem with mine example or might it be a problem with bad 220v line/ground?

Attch. 59-63 what I see on display of 1204 without probes or cables in it.
39-40 - what is seen in the "220v/50" line of my socket.

Please advice should I go back asap to the dealer and change this one example.

Welcome to the forum.

First, please check the firmware version and if it's not version 26 update it from here:
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/6586/

Then after the DSO has been running ~30 mins do the Self Cal available in the Utilities menu.

39-40 - what is seen in the "220v/50" line of my socket.

Normal, the mains sine wave has been affected by other SMPS corrupting the waveform.

[Chuki]

My machine showed 7.6.1.20.r3 on the screen.
so I am little bit confused is that lower or higher than 6.1.26 Depending on the logic of what way to read might be both.

Started mache to run for 30 min to make calibration. Actually, I have made it once after for sure few hours of runtime.

[eff]

My machine showed 7.6.1.20.r3 on the screen.
so I am little bit confused is that lower or higher than 6.1.26 Depending on the logic of what way to read might be both.

Started mache to run for 30 min to make calibration. Actually, I have made it once after for sure few hours of runtime.

Your unit has an old firmware revision. The relevant part of your "7.6.1.20.r3" would be the 6.1.20.r3, thus your firmware is a little old.
An up-to-date oscilloscope would display 7.6.1.26

~Edited for spelling/grammar.

[Performa01]

New to scopes. Testing my new 1204x-e. What really makes think bad is the fact that just sitting scope on the bench is showing 20-30 mV on its outputs without probes connected.
Is it for sure problem with mine example or might it be a problem with bad 220v line/ground?

Attch. 59-63 what I see on display of 1204 without probes or cables in it.
39-40 - what is seen in the "220v/50" line of my socket.

Please advice should I go back asap to the dealer and change this one example.

There is nothing wrong with your SDS1204X-E (Regardless what firmware version you’re running).

It is an 8-bit DSO and one vertical division on the screen equals 25 LSB of the ADC. Now do the math…

At 1V/div, 1 LSB of the ADC equals 1/25V = 40mV.

It comes as no surprise that automatic measurements will always pick up at least 1LSB (peak to peak) since this is about the minimum noise generated by the ADC itself.

Change the vertical gain to 100mV/div and you’ll most likely get 4mV.

Try 1mv/div and you will get 40µV ADC noise, but actual reading will be more because at high sensitivities like this, noise from the frontend will contribute to the result.