Shared vertical adjustments. I do not like shared controls but this lounge need eat or keep starving - for price and compact size.I too was hoping for individual controls....oh well it's not like Siglent don't know how to multiplex them.... SDS3000/WS3000.
Is the HDMI connector labelled SBus for the logic analyzer?Yep. 16 digital channels.
How bode plot was made? Does it come with a built-in 30MHz signal generator?25 MHz (option)
"USB Arbitrary Waveform Generator Module" hmm...This is the only image I could find of it in use but it didn't copy well. ::)
Would be nice if it can be paired with SDG2000X instead ;) Or even SDG6000X!
Hello,
http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-db.aspx?id=1529&tid=1&T=2 (http://www.siglent.com/prodcut-db.aspx?id=1529&tid=1&T=2)
Regards,
Diabolo
"USB Arbitrary Waveform Generator Module" hmm...
Would be nice if it can be paired with SDG2000X instead ;) Or even SDG6000X!
Also maybe still time to fix typo on front panel: 1Ga/s => 1GSa/s
"USB Arbitrary Waveform Generator Module" hmm...This is the only image I could find of it in use but it didn't copy well. ::)
Would be nice if it can be paired with SDG2000X instead ;) Or even SDG6000X!
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=345994)
More translated:
4 channel models support more features, including: event search and navigation functions, fast positioning to the defined event; support baud map function; support USB arbitrary waveform generator module (optional), single channel, 25MHz; support USB WIFI adapter access to the wireless LAN (optional); provide Web pages, without the need to install the driver and client software to the remote management of the instrument.
"The SDS1000X-E can control the USB Arbitrary Waveform Generator module or control an independent AWG device, perform amplitude-frequency and phase-frequency sweeps, display the results in a baud or list, and export the scan data"
When this scope is launched in Europe, the Rigol DS1054Z will be reaching the end of its glory days :)I think so too but then again I have a feeling Rigol sold many more of the DS1054Z than Siglent sold scopes in total so Rigol must have pretty deep pockets by now. If Rigol comes up with a scope based on an ASIC like Keysight then the tables may turn quickly in favor of Rigol.
When this scope is launched in Europe, the Rigol DS1054Z will be reaching the end of its glory days :)
Most likely Rigol is preparing for a similar new kid on the block however =)
There's only six months left to hate it, all the Rigol haters had better go over to the DS1054Z thread and do some extra hating.
Rigol haven't released any new models for ages. I wonder why...?
Oh, wait, I remember why! They've been busy making an entirely new chipset (https://www.rigolna.com/news/2017/00001735/).
If that is true then it seems Rigol is still chasing the dreams Siglent already has given up on.Oh, wait, I remember why! They've been busy making an entirely new chipset (https://www.rigolna.com/news/2017/00001735/).
...for 1+ GHz scopes... "Ultravision II will transform the customer value proposition in the 1-4GHz oscilloscope market." So this is why Z cant tell square wave from derivative? Rigol all too busy chasing top dollar - hobbyists can wait...
How could you know ? :-//If that is true then it seems Rigol is still chasing the dreams Siglent already has given up on.Oh, wait, I remember why! They've been busy making an entirely new chipset (https://www.rigolna.com/news/2017/00001735/).
...for 1+ GHz scopes... "Ultravision II will transform the customer value proposition in the 1-4GHz oscilloscope market." So this is why Z cant tell square wave from derivative? Rigol all too busy chasing top dollar - hobbyists can wait...
Simple: Siglent hasn't introduced a new scope with a >=300MHz bandwidth in years. Also the most recent additions to the line-up are clearly aimed at the low cost hobbyist market by using aggressive pricing and customers as beta testers.How could you know ? :-//If that is true then it seems Rigol is still chasing the dreams Siglent already has given up on.Oh, wait, I remember why! They've been busy making an entirely new chipset (https://www.rigolna.com/news/2017/00001735/).
...for 1+ GHz scopes... "Ultravision II will transform the customer value proposition in the 1-4GHz oscilloscope market." So this is why Z cant tell square wave from derivative? Rigol all too busy chasing top dollar - hobbyists can wait...
:-X
So ? You make out like it's not considered or possibly under development.Simple: Siglent hasn't introduced a new scope with a >=300MHz bandwidth in years.How could you know ? :-//If that is true then it seems Rigol is still chasing the dreams Siglent already has given up on.Oh, wait, I remember why! They've been busy making an entirely new chipset (https://www.rigolna.com/news/2017/00001735/).
...for 1+ GHz scopes... "Ultravision II will transform the customer value proposition in the 1-4GHz oscilloscope market." So this is why Z cant tell square wave from derivative? Rigol all too busy chasing top dollar - hobbyists can wait...
:-X
Also the most recent additions to the line-up are clearly aimed at the low cost hobbyist market2 models that aren't:
using aggressive pricing
customers as beta testers.Didn't you report some bugs to GW ?
"USB Arbitrary Waveform Generator Module" hmm...It can.
Would be nice if it can be paired with SDG2000X instead ;) Or even SDG6000X
i am disapointed, :(HDMI is a pretty good alternative to DVI.
i was hoping to see a low end scope with a monitor output on the back. (VGA / DVI - not something requiring an interface!)
Should this be capable to capture waveforms and send these to any AWG, or just Siglent ones? I'm not sure how standardized these protocols are.They're not standardised. This unit as mentioned above can control the optional USB AWG module or another Siglent standalone AWG from within the DSO's UI. This is primarily for use with the Bode plot feature however the AWG can be controlled for other use just like an inbuilt AWG could/would be.
i am disapointed, :(HDMI is a pretty good alternative to DVI.
i was hoping to see a low end scope with a monitor output on the back. (VGA / DVI - not something requiring an interface!)
Think physical display interface is not cost-effective if there is LAN port that could be used to serve screen as well?
:-DDThe connector has more than one function, which probably dictated the connector choice. Other than that, it's just DVI with some stuff added, so there isn't much to fault.
HDMI is DVI-D signals on a cheap shitty connector with added digital audio and a license fee!!!
The 4 channel models will have WiFi and Webserver. This way you can replicate and command the unit from a PC using the browser. and the IP address of the unit. Not bad for a entry level unit.That sounds horrible. Unless there is fast and effective support for any bugs and security flaws found for the next 10-15 years, which there inevitably won't be, it sounds like a huge security liability. Companies just don't seem to learn that hooking things up to the internet is the easy part. It's effectively supporting it and making sure things are safe that's the hard part. Having a botnet running on your oscilloscope isn't much fun, having it being an entry point for further compromise is even worse.
not for me, i dont want RF emissions on my workbench.Well, you can still use the LAN cable for the same application
what asshole thought that up?
i have sensitive circuits running out of the housing with the shielding removed - i dont want a damned transmitter in the room!!
:palm:
The 4 channel models will have WiFi and Webserver. This way you can replicate and command the unit from a PC using the browser. and the IP address of the unit. Not bad for a entry level unit.That sounds horrible. Unless there is fast and effective support for any bugs and security flaws found for the next 10-15 years, which there inevitably won't be, it sounds like a huge security liability. Companies just don't seem to learn that hooking things up to the internet is the easy part. It's effectively supporting it and making sure things are safe that's the hard part. Having a botnet running on your oscilloscope isn't much fun, having it being an entry point for further compromise is even worse.
not for me, i dont want RF emissions on my workbench.Fine, then turn it OFF. :P
what asshole thought that up?
i have sensitive circuits running out of the housing with the shielding removed - i dont want a damned transmitter in the room!!
:palm:
We will test the device as soon as we get them (possibly end of the year).Again, people asking for webserver compatibility are asking for it being done in a secure fashion. Unfortunately, recent history tells us that this is rarely the case. The security of networked devices is generally atrocious and no more than an afterthought. Properly securing and supporting networked devices is a serious, long term investment very few companies are able or willing to take. Even companies who have networking as a core business run afoul of this regularly. Not too long ago, a huge botnet running on IP camaras and was uncovered. Putting something on the internet is a serious thing that's underestimated by pretty much everyone.
To be honest we have several companies asking for webserver compatibility, so we have to think that part of the market is looking for it.
However we can only comment about the workability after we test them.
Putting something on the internet is a serious thing that's underestimated by pretty much everyone.
Nowdays people seem to forget subtle meaning behind term LAN:Calling it LAN instead of ethernet does not absolve the manufacturer from its responsibilities regarding security, nor does my ability to isolate networks.
Local Area Network.
Just use local physically isolated network for lab devices.
:-DDRacism? What racism? That doesn't seem to make sense.
the racism and comments about the security of optional features that nobody in this thread could have possibly evaluated
:-DD
A piece of test equipment has no place on an insecure network so security isn't necessary. Worse, it will probably in the way of regular use anyway. Imagine having to access a scope using SSH from a piece of software :scared: The overhead alone is going to be a problem and how are lab technicians going to troubleshoot network problems? So in reality test equipment is always on local networks which are not accessible from the outside.You're not understanding the problem. This type of hardware may very well make the network insecure, rather than it being put on an insecure network. We'll have to see how that effectively works out, but history isn't painting a pretty picture. Also, let's not be naive. These scopes will at least in part end up in places with little to no IT support. They shouldn't be a risk to the local network, period. That means it needs properly developed and tested software, which gets updated on a regular basis. It will be interesting to see if and how Siglent deals with that part.
:-DDRacism? What racism? That doesn't seem to make sense.
the racism and comments about the security of optional features that nobody in this thread could have possibly evaluated
:-DD
While probably technically true that the security features have not been evaluated, it also pretty much fully irrelevant. Networked devices have a terrible track record when it comes to network security and there is no reason this device would be different. I will eat my words when Siglent announces 15, 10 or even 5 years of regular security updates for it, but I don't think anyone will be holding his breath. Unless the law starts dictating that the software and associated updates are as much part of a device as the hardware is, the situation is unlikely to improve.
A piece of test equipment has no place on an insecure network so security isn't necessary. Worse, it will probably in the way of regular use anyway. Imagine having to access a scope using SSH from a piece of software :scared: The overhead alone is going to be a problem and how are lab technicians going to troubleshoot network problems? So in reality test equipment is always on local networks which are not accessible from the outside.You're not understanding the problem. This type of hardware may very well make the network insecure, rather than it being put on an insecure network. We'll have to see how that effectively works out, but history isn't painting a pretty picture. Also, let's not be naive. These scopes will at least in part end up in places with little to no IT support. They shouldn't be a risk to the local network, period. That means it needs properly developed and tested software, which gets updated on a regular basis. It will be interesting to see if and how Siglent deals with that part.
And how exactly does a piece of test equipment becomes a risk to the network? I don't see this happening in any realistic scenario unless it is 'infected' at the factory.A piece of test equipment has no place on an insecure network so security isn't necessary. Worse, it will probably in the way of regular use anyway. Imagine having to access a scope using SSH from a piece of software :scared: The overhead alone is going to be a problem and how are lab technicians going to troubleshoot network problems? So in reality test equipment is always on local networks which are not accessible from the outside.You're not understanding the problem. This type of hardware may very well make the network insecure, rather than it being put on an insecure network. We'll have to see how that effectively works out, but history isn't painting a pretty picture. Also, let's not be naive. These scopes will at least in part end up in places with little to no IT support. They shouldn't be a risk to the local network, period.
And how exactly does a piece of test equipment becomes a risk to the network? I don't see this happening in any realistic scenario unless it is 'infected' at the factory.Why do you think that? It just needs a vulnerability like many simple networked devices have, in no small part because these devices are rarely conceived with security in mind. The device gets compromised through wifi, the network itself or USB. After an attacker gains a foothold, he can work to compromise the rest of the network. Once you're in, traversing the network is a lot easier. It also allows for more complex attacks, where a temporary compromise elsewhere gets turned into a permanent foothold within the network. This isn't theoretical either, but has become a real life everyday threat.
Or, as John Pironti, president of IP Architects puts it, "A lot of adversaries, and a lot of people who are looking at this problem, aren't looking at it as 'let me go and attack your toaster': they're looking at it as 'let me attack your toaster to use it as a way to get into the rest of your network'."
That sounds horrible. Unless there is fast and effective support for any bugs and security flaws found for the next 10-15 years, which there inevitably won't be, it sounds like a huge security liability. Companies just don't seem to learn that hooking things up to the internet is the easy part. It's effectively supporting it and making sure things are safe that's the hard part. Having a botnet running on your oscilloscope isn't much fun, having it being an entry point for further compromise is even worse.
You know what they say: the "S" in IoT stands for security.
Having a WiFi interface is not inherently worse than having an Ethernet interface, which nowadays we consider a given.
Again, mixing risks.Having a WiFi interface is not inherently worse than having an Ethernet interface, which nowadays we consider a given.
:clap:
https://www.hacker9.com/hack-public-wifi-hotspots-cracking-passwords.html (https://www.hacker9.com/hack-public-wifi-hotspots-cracking-passwords.html)
Overall, anytime you feel that made network (esp. wireless) or installation secure just watch some
https://www.youtube.com/user/DEFCONConference (https://www.youtube.com/user/DEFCONConference)
videos, feeling will pass ::)
Nevertheless, what are we talking about? I said that having a wireless interface in an oscilloscope is not inherently worse than having an Ethernet interface. Or is it worse to have it in your oscilloscope than having it in a computer/tablet/phone?
It might seem Mr Scram might not be happy with any equipment that offers any kind of remote connectivity. :-//Let's not be like that. We both know that networking capabilities get literally put in everything and the kitchen sink nowadays and that security is almost all cases is, at best, an afterthought. It's only fair to be wary in this case, as even big brand names often get it wrong and in ways that cause serious problems. Add to that the conclusion that the more well known Chinese test gear manufacturers don't have a stellar record when it comes to firmware updates.
USB, LAN, WiFi are all here to stay so the only grace is that Siglent run Linux OS on their gear.
From the Cn website, a look at the web server, DSO control from PC browser:
(http://www.siglent.com/Chinese_website2014/picture/SDS1000X-E/20.png)
Again, mixing risks.Computer software certainly is much better maintained than that of simpler networked devices. Phone software sometimes is, although a lot of manufacturers are just as bad as the IoT folks. I've seen all phone support being dropped within 6 months of release, which meant users were vulnerable to known issues within a year of purchase without recourse.
The worst "IoT" security risks come from random abuse by people who could be at any distance. I am talking about the classical abuses of web based cameras, etc. WiFi won't make a difference here.
Regarding WPA2 (the rest of the WiFi encryption protocols are insecure) you need a lot of resources to crack a good WiFi password. Of course, any encryption system is inherently vulnerable to brute force attacks or even random luck. But cracking a good WPA2 password is impractical. WiFi networks are being abused largely thanks to WEP and WPS.
Nevertheless, what are we talking about? I said that having a wireless interface in an oscilloscope is not inherently worse than having an Ethernet interface. Or is it worse to have it in your oscilloscope than having it in a computer/tablet/phone?
I said that having a wireless interface in an oscilloscope is not inherently worse than having an Ethernet interface. Or is it worse to have it in your oscilloscope than having it in a computer/tablet/phone?Exactly, no worse than any other device.
That's true. Anyway in this particular case it's a USB dongle that you can disconnect as well.Nevertheless, what are we talking about? I said that having a wireless interface in an oscilloscope is not inherently worse than having an Ethernet interface. Or is it worse to have it in your oscilloscope than having it in a computer/tablet/phone?
It actually is worse. Because if get enabled for any reason (user error, firmware bug, (timed) firmware exploit, ...) it will be there to probe. However disconnected LAN cable is just that - disconnected cable and will require physical security breach to compromise.
Bit different to a USB scope where you have to have connectivity to another device in order just to use it. ::)Yes, a Windows based computer, which is extremely unlikely to be compromised with at least a piece of remotely controlled malware.
That's true. Anyway in this particular case it's a USB dongle that you can disconnect as well.I gather the device will retain the network key, even when not connected over wifi.
And, again, wireless based attacks are necessarily local in scope and risky. More and more equipment manufacturers are incorporating security measures that can promptly detect such an attack attempt, which makes it risky.
In any case, this has turned into a much larger discussion than intended. Let's just say that a lot of us hope that manufacturers take networking security serious, instead of it being an afterthought. Siglent can show us how things should be done here.I'm afraid that won't happen. Security is very hard. And their priority will be to offer functionality.
"Saving" can be optional.That's true. Anyway in this particular case it's a USB dongle that you can disconnect as well.I gather the device will retain the network key, even when not connected over wifi.
And, again, wireless based attacks are necessarily local in scope and risky. More and more equipment manufacturers are incorporating security measures that can promptly detect such an attack attempt, which makes it risky.
I'm afraid that won't happen. Security is very hard. And their priority will be to offer functionality.Security is very hard to do right and you are probably right about the priorities here, which is why I'm wary and initially started the discussion. Software development isn't mature at all either, which leads to all sorts of problems, as you state correctly.
Have you tried connecting any instrument to a network and feeding it nonsense? (Parameters out of range, strings that are too long, etc?). You are likely to make them crash. And that means there's a potential buffer overflow vulnerability there waiting to be abused.
There is a fundamental problem in the way we program and the architecture of our processors. Unless those problems are really addressed (and that's an extremely hard problem to tackle) even the best designed software will have vulnerabilities, period.
Anyway, for equipment not designed to be serving on the Internet, intended instead to be connected to small, restricted networks, the risk is not so large. And the local wireless attacks discussed by MrW0lf's are likely to be experienced only by high value targets, if any.
About attacks happening only to high value targets I unfortunately have to disagree. Most people think they, their hardware or their information is not valuable enough, but experience has taught us that almost everyone has something an attacker can perceive as valuable. Just the fact that a device could be in a test lab could make it a very interesting target. We've also already seen botnets comprised of IP camera's. In that case, even the feeble calculative horsepower of a tiny chip was considered a valuable enough target. In one infamous case, simply having a three letter Twitter handle was enough.I said that the kind of local scope attacks such as sophisticated wireless network attacks (which need a lot of resources to crack passwords) are more likely to be experienced by high value targets.
Of course, we're not even talking about issues like test results being compromised or even manipulated. There could be severe liability consequences.Indeed, just imagine a multimeter hacked so that it will display voltages higher than, say, 25 V as low voltage noise. It could cost actual lives.
I said that the kind of local scope attacks such as sophisticated wireless network attacks (which need a lot of resources to crack passwords) are more likely to be experienced by high value targets.
PS I work in security industry, so I can be biased :). It's also very easy to fall into "more protection is better" trap and "over-protect" your stuff.I've just ordered the new variant. No Ethernet, radiation hardened and IP67 :-DD
Has this device actually been released in the Chinese domestic market? It surprises me a bit that not a single video or any other user generated information or content has been posted to the internet.Not sure.
the chinese arent big utube addicts, they have there own streaming video hosts.I've managed to dig up fairly obscure stuff before, but in this case I'm drawing a blank.
so there may be lots of stuff - you just cant see it.
Will be Q1 2018Apparently it will be early Q1 2018, considering a comment has been made that release is much less than 6 months away. The end of Q1 was pretty much exactly 6 months away at that point, so it would have to be januari or februari at worst, but I would consider Valentines Day to be the boundary between much less and just under.
As soon as we get news or sample we will post
Will be Q1 2018
As soon as we get news or sample we will post
(Disclaimer: Italy-oriented question ;-) )I'm coming from the same angle. It would be beneficial for me to make the investment in 2017, although I could compensate a bit by advancing other expenditures.
Hi Simone, do you think that for Italy it will be possible to preorder and pay before dicember 31st? Because I guess this DSO is elegible for Superammortamento/Industria4.0 concessions (for non italian people, those are a kind of una-tantum tax relief) ?
Tnx
I was thinking to buy a sds1202x-e or a ds1054z this week because I need it, but now I've seen this new model. I don't know what to do :) If I need to wait 6 months, I'll buy another oneHere too I'm in the same boat. I've bought a Velleman WFS210 to bridge the gap, even though I know it cannot be compared to the two real oscilloscopes. I hope it will at least keep me going until the reviews for the SDS1204X-E start coming in.
I would say it is possible if they will not need the delivery note.Will be Q1 2018
As soon as we get news or sample we will post
(Disclaimer: Italy-oriented question ;-) )
Hi Simone, do you think that for Italy it will be possible to preorder and pay before dicember 31st? Because I guess this DSO is elegible for Superammortamento/Industria4.0 concessions (for non italian people, those are a kind of una-tantum tax relief) ?
Tnx
Any news on availability in Europe/Italy? This french store already lists it (with wrong picture) and seems to accept preorders:Wow, this unit has 14 MHz of memory!
http://www.limpulsion.fr/art/SDS1204XE/SIGLENT__Oscilloscope_4x200_MHz_7_decodage (http://www.limpulsion.fr/art/SDS1204XE/SIGLENT__Oscilloscope_4x200_MHz_7_decodage)
Any news on availability in Europe/Italy? This french store already lists it (with wrong picture) and seems to accept preorders:Wow, this unit has 14 MHz of memory!
http://www.limpulsion.fr/art/SDS1204XE/SIGLENT__Oscilloscope_4x200_MHz_7_decodage (http://www.limpulsion.fr/art/SDS1204XE/SIGLENT__Oscilloscope_4x200_MHz_7_decodage)
Joking aside, I see it apparently has 1 GB/s per channel, which is nice. It's also what you'd want in a 200 MHz scope, but it's good the have that confirmed. It does seem to have less memory than a fully upgraded DS1054Z, which surprises me a bit. Other manufacturers seem to consistently have a lot less memory, despite the Rigols selling like hotcakes.
The French advert says 1 GS/s per channel. Having less than that would be a bit of a letdown, as using full speed and sampling would be less ideal. You've demonstrated nicely why.
We'll see :)
French can advert what ever but this is really not fair way how to go. Also in this ad they link wrong data sheet ( SDS1202X-E data sheet) in this advert and wrong image. Why they do this shit - unknown.Fair enough. Information from a seller with MHz for memory size shouldn't be taken at face value.
What I previously told is how it is and this is explained also in chinese data sheet and manual. But perhaps this french is not interested about fact checking = trumpth, not truth.
Here attached image how it looks typically with different sample frequency vs input sinewave frequency.Seems more like using a crap scope on purpose to support nonsense. It is well known sinc/x reconstruction works well for frequencies little over fs/2.5. See the attached picture (sampling mode with infinite persistence on):
2.5 means that (example) 200MHz input and sample frequency 200*2.5=500MHz (Msa/s)
Many peoples have heard that all is ok if fin is < fNyquist (this is how rules are misunderstooded). Top in image is fin = fNyquist/1.25
Attached image is not from Siglent SDS1204X-E
bottom of image there is multiplier 5. (f sample is 5 times f signal)
Here attached image how it looks typically with different sample frequency vs input sinewave frequency.Seems more like using a crap scope on purpose to support nonsense. It is well known sinc/x reconstruction works well for frequencies little over fs/2.5. See the attached picture (sampling mode with infinite persistence on):
2.5 means that (example) 200MHz input and sample frequency 200*2.5=500MHz (Msa/s)
Many peoples have heard that all is ok if fin is < fNyquist (this is how rules are misunderstooded). Top in image is fin = fNyquist/1.25
Attached image is not from Siglent SDS1204X-E
bottom of image there is multiplier 5. (f sample is 5 times f signal)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=364927;image)
How bode plot was made? Does it come with a built-in 30MHz signal generator?
The 4 channel models will have WiFi and Webserver. This way you can replicate and command the unit from a PC using the browser. and the IP address of the unit. Not bad for a entry level unit.
I wonder if Dave will get one to review before then ?
Yep, I'm getting one pre-release, 2nd week Nov.It's two channel sibling appears to have compensation issues that require the user to do a board level repair to fix. It might be interesting to see whether the four channel model has these issues too.
I hope they fix the typo 1 Ga/s on the nameplate before production:/
Because of sampling rate it may be possible Siglent will focus on the 100MHz on the 4ch version in EU.
About the 2 channels Siglent brought the 200MHz X-E only to EU. In China is also available 100MHz.
It is a commercial consideration only. I agree with you the 200MHz 4ch spec are good too.
We will discover this in 2 weeks.
Why?
Why?
Because real signals are often not sine and bandwidth does not abruptly stop at 200MHz. There are details like small ringing, etc that will be washed out with too low sampling rate.
Same for bandwidth: more bandwidth == less amplitude distortion (and more picked noise). And scopes normally have more bandwidth than advertised.
So, I don't see the reason why there "must" be any relation between bandwidth and sampling rate. Each parameter independently improves capturing. What makes sense to me is to have a "balanced" solution in terms of BW, sampling rate and price.
Interestingly enough, oscilloscopes of the past used to have a different BW / Rate ratio. Like, a 500MHz scope with just 1Gsa/s. Not anymore nowadays. May be because it was not a sweet price point, or that scopes relied on "equivalent" sampling.
And this must say. 500MSa/s 200MHz oscilloscope is really easy with signals what have over 250MHz frequency components in signal under test and it leads aliasing and this is math, it is not oscilloscope brand. User need understand how to avoid these traps and not be fooled by scope screen or displayed numbers in these cases.
Perhaps 200MHz nameplate sscope -3dB point ( input BNC) is example something between 200 to 250MHz. -6dB perhaps 230 - 280MHz or something like this.
SDS1202X-e, for example, has more than 300MHz, afaik. So, reasoning based on assumption this is a 200MHz scope is just wrong.
No it's not, sure it will display 300+ MHz but greatly attenuated.Perhaps 200MHz nameplate sscope -3dB point ( input BNC) is example something between 200 to 250MHz. -6dB perhaps 230 - 280MHz or something like this.
SDS1202X-e, for example, has more than 300MHz, afaik. So, reasoning based on assumption this is a 200MHz scope is just wrong.
Recent -3dB point check using freshly acquired HP 500 MHz sig gen.
10 mV source signal, BNC connection through Tek 1:1 50 ohm BNC inline feedthrough.
Slight discrepancy in frequency measurements but despite this indicates the -3dB point is ~240 MHz.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-'official'-siglent-sds1202x-e-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=347766;image)
What counts is the -3dB point referenced to a relatively low frequency like somewhere between 100kHz and 10MHz. Any oscilloscope will show signals with frequencies above it's nameplate bandwidth because it doesn't have a brickwall input filter. You also have to be aware that there are many more things which attenuate a signal between the probing point and the input of the ADC in the oscilloscope. The actual high frequency content of a signal from a regular probe will be attenuated way more then the signal from a signal generator. As a rule of thumb you need 50 Ohm inputs and special (low-Z probes for example) to measure signals over 100MHz accurately because regular probes load these signals too much. The discussion here is kinda moot anyway.Perhaps 200MHz nameplate sscope -3dB point ( input BNC) is example something between 200 to 250MHz. -6dB perhaps 230 - 280MHz or something like this.SDS1202X-e, for example, has more than 300MHz, afaik. So, reasoning based on assumption this is a 200MHz scope is just wrong.
Interestingly enough, oscilloscopes of the past used to have a different BW / Rate ratio. Like, a 500MHz scope with just 1Gsa/s. Not anymore nowadays. May be because it was not a sweet price point, or that scopes relied on "equivalent" sampling.
Interestingly enough, oscilloscopes of the past used to have a different BW / Rate ratio. Like, a 500MHz scope with just 1Gsa/s. Not anymore nowadays. May be because it was not a sweet price point, or that scopes relied on "equivalent" sampling.
For the all-time winner of BW/Sampling rate ratio, I nominate the HP 54610B (http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1000001431%3Aepsg%3Apro-pn-54610B/20-msa-s-500-mhz-2-channel-oscilloscope?cc=US&lc=eng): 500 MHz / 20MSa/s. 25:1. Beat that! :-+
Please guys, can we talk about the new scope?
Dave had some good intel.
At this time we do not have new scope. Only rumors that it exist. ;)
He is not alone.Dave had some good intel.
At this time we do not have new scope. Only rumors that it exist. ;)
He is not alone.Spill the beans!
There's only so much as beta testers we can tell.....NDA and all that. :-XHe is not alone.Spill the beans!
Do you know if it will be fully optioned Dave ?I wonder if Dave will get one to review before then ?
Yep, I'm getting one pre-release, 2nd week Nov.
Siglent has removed the SDS1102X from the European stock and promo. This may show a possible overlap of pricing with the upcoming SDS1104X-E :popcorn:
My info is confirmed by Siglent website. In fact the SDS1102X is not here anymore http://siglenteu.com/m/newsxq.aspx?id=3926 (http://siglenteu.com/m/newsxq.aspx?id=3926)
You will see this happening in all distributors website soon.
Good :D
You will see I’m not wrong :-+
This problem is long fixed with USB scopes / logic analyzers. Also newer standalone scopes often have webpage type interface that may work quite well. You have to be very oldschool or masochist doing something requiring lots of fine detail with these inbuilt postcards. Postcard-only scopes are for hobbyist feel-good and room decoration + simple tasks requiring good DPO performance - direct replacement for CRO.
Personally I use only bunch of separate stand alone equipment's. And I want to use. Maybe I'm old school masochist. If so, I'm proud of this experience and position. All do not have this possibility.
Also in bottom-line scopes it should be easy and not expensive to add an up-to-date HDMI or DVI- connection. Doing so would allow the user to add a simple and low-cost monitor if he wants or needs a bigger screen. This would be a nice combination to maintain a small and bench-place saving scope and to have a bigger screen whenever it is needed.A huge screen isn't really helpful if it's a tiny resolution.
It could be so simple and acceptable cheap.
This is reality. If eye strain is concern - large IPS monitor is basically only option. If you have watched Keysight interview with Dave it was also voiced that devices w/o physical inbuilt GUI are future.With touchscreen becoming the standard the 'traditional' equipment is likely to have less and less buttons. At some point you could have a USB analog frontend connected to a tablet and operate it from there. I don't like needing a PC to operate a scope because it is too cumbersome to deal with installing software.
I have lots of USB gear from various brands exactly for this reason - ultra portable & no eye strain. However they do have other drawbacks and in fact I will get some postcard device in future for specific tasks. Its all about picking right tool for the job.
With touchscreen becoming the standard the 'traditional' equipment is likely to have less and less buttons. At some point you could have a USB analog frontend connected to a tablet and operate it from there. I don't like needing a PC to operate a scope because it is too cumbersome to deal with installing software.A tablet doesn't need less effort to install things.
reaching for a knob while looking at a circuit
will always be easier when it's a physical knob. Touch screens inevitably require your visual attention.
Am I missing something here? On an oscilloscope you need to look at the screen anyway :o I dare to say that adjusting anything on an oscilloscope will be combined with looking at the screen.With touchscreen becoming the standard the 'traditional' equipment is likely to have less and less buttons. At some point you could have a USB analog frontend connected to a tablet and operate it from there. I don't like needing a PC to operate a scope because it is too cumbersome to deal with installing software.A tablet doesn't need less effort to install things.
Besides, a physical interface is hard to replace. You can have all the touch screens in the world, reaching for a knob while looking at a circuit will always be easier when it's a physical knob. Touch screens inevitably require your visual attention.
Am I missing something here? On an oscilloscope you need to look at the screen anyway :o I dare to say that adjusting anything on an oscilloscope will be combined with looking at the screen.It would be convenient if you hands weren't in the way, then ;D
Back to the tread let see how the Siglent unit will handle the external signal generator.Why ?
Why?Connectivity and a settings summary is shown in the blank portion on the very top of the display just as it's done with SDS2kX and 1kX+ and the AWG is 'driven' with the option softkeys just like with the mentioned models.
Because I'm curious to see it working ...
There are default Bode plot values within the scope UI but they can be altered to suit your needs. Eg. different sweep frequencies, Voltage etc.
You'll have to wait a couple more weeks to see all the detail, but some little overview.There are default Bode plot values within the scope UI but they can be altered to suit your needs. Eg. different sweep frequencies, Voltage etc.
So for example with SDG2122X 0-120MHz sweep and scope will do automatic switching to get high dynamic range also? No silly limitations, real deal?
Don't get too excited about bode plotting at high frequencies. A real network analyser has the ability to create a reference sweep and go from there for a very good reason!
Yes, one scope channel is indeed the Ref channel and is not displayed at all until you leave Bode plot mode and return to normal scope mode. Ref is Ch2 in the image above.Don't get too excited about bode plotting at high frequencies. A real network analyser has the ability to create a reference sweep and go from there for a very good reason!
If I understand correctly this uses 2 channel generator method like I used with my DIY math based bode plotting experiments (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/picoscope-2000/msg1298871/#msg1298871). Most differences not related to DUT should cancel out.
He mentioned receiving it in yesterday's video too. Why haven't you watched that yet? Well!? ;DBeen away, still catching up. :-[
This Ukrainian site has it on preorder (with obligatory wrong picture... :palm: ), 200MHz version for about 560€ (+VAT):560 euro plus VAT is nearing 700 euro, or maybe over 700 euro delivered. I'm not seeing a DS1054Z killer just yet.
http://gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html (http://gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html)
English google translation:
https://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html (https://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html)
This Ukrainian site has it on preorder (with obligatory wrong picture... :palm: ), 200MHz version for about 560€ (+VAT):560 euro plus VAT is nearing 700 euro, or maybe over 700 euro delivered. I'm not seeing a DS1054Z killer just yet.
http://gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html (http://gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html)
English google translation:
https://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html (https://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html)
There will be the 100MHz version too (SDS1104X-E) which will be cheaper.
560 euro plus VAT is nearing 700 euro, or maybe over 700 euro delivered. I'm not seeing a DS1054Z killer just yet.
Tomorrow we will all know pricing :popcorn:
There will be the 100MHz version too (SDS1104X-E) which will be cheaper.
560 euro plus VAT is nearing 700 euro, or maybe over 700 euro delivered. I'm not seeing a DS1054Z killer just yet.
Tomorrow we will all know pricing :popcorn:
https://smile.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B0771N1ZF9/
found this on amazon, is this the correct model and price?
It's the 100 MHz version and the seller is Siglent USA so maybe they know something the rest of don't. :-//
https://smile.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B0771N1ZF9/
found this on amazon, is this the correct model and price?
The DS1054Z has a proven track record and a community surrounding it. You can't just match it, you need to beat it convincingly to take the throne. Hacked or not doesn't matter, as everyone takes the 50 MHz DS1054Z base model to be a 100 MHz model with decoding anyway.
You compare prices with old Riglol DS1054Z and SDS1204X-E. Do you really think you compare apple with apple.
200MHz vs 50MHz (hacked 100MHz)
500MSa/s all 4 channels on vs 250MSa/s
1GSa/s for two channels vs 500MSa/s for 2 channels on.
real full resolution 500uV/div vs 5mV/div real full resolution
Always background real time running waveform history buffer. vs nothing
Fast sequence acquisition (aka segmented memory acq) vs some kind of slow frame recorder.
Full speed mask test vs crap slow mask test (with false statistics die to different speed with pass or fail state)
1M FFT vs 16kt(?) FFT
Much more fast UI
Professional grade Sin(x)x interpolation vs total crap fake Sin(x)/x
True full current memory length and full sample resolution measurements vs measurements from highly decimated display data. (very extremely poor time resolution with slower time bases)
and more...
16 channels option is not mentioned into the data sheet
Yes, maybe a better specd scope with a higher price tag, but definitely not a killerThis Ukrainian site has it on preorder (with obligatory wrong picture... :palm: ), 200MHz version for about 560€ (+VAT):560 euro plus VAT is nearing 700 euro, or maybe over 700 euro delivered. I'm not seeing a DS1054Z killer just yet.
http://gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html (http://gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html)
English google translation:
https://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html (https://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//gtest.com.ua/sds1204x-e.html)
You compare prices with old Riglol DS1054Z and SDS1204X-E. Do you really think you compare apple with apple.
200MHz vs 50MHz (hacked 100MHz)
500MSa/s all 4 channels on vs 250MSa/s
1GSa/s for two channels vs 500MSa/s for 2 channels on.
real full resolution 500uV/div vs 5mV/div real full resolution
Always background real time running waveform history buffer. vs nothing
Fast sequence acquisition (aka segmented memory acq) vs some kind of slow frame recorder.
Full speed mask test vs crap slow mask test (with false statistics die to different speed with pass or fail state)
1M FFT vs 16kt(?) FFT
Much more fast UI
Professional grade Sin(x)x interpolation vs total crap fake Sin(x)/x
True full current memory length and full sample resolution measurements vs measurements from highly decimated display data. (very extremely poor time resolution with slower time bases)
and more...
It's the 100 MHz version and the seller is Siglent USA so maybe they know something the rest of don't. :-//
https://smile.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B0771N1ZF9/
found this on amazon, is this the correct model and price?
Barebones unit with zero options though.
And with only 2 probes?????It's the 100 MHz version and the seller is Siglent USA so maybe they know something the rest of don't. :-//
https://smile.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B0771N1ZF9/ (https://smile.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B0771N1ZF9/)
found this on amazon, is this the correct model and price?
Barebones unit with zero options though.
Oh Wow! Now I'm confused :)Are you serious? Confusing / misleading the buyers is a good product launch strategy?
I like this kind of triller/ambiguos product launch!
Maybe the HDMI port will carry a MSO logic probe too?
560 euro plus VAT is nearing 700 euro, or maybe over 700 euro delivered. I'm not seeing a DS1054Z killer just yet.You compare prices with old Riglol DS1054Z and SDS1204X-E. Do you really think you compare apple with apple.
200MHz vs 50MHz (hacked 100MHz)
500MSa/s all 4 channels on vs 250MSa/s
1GSa/s for two channels vs 500MSa/s for 2 channels on.
real full resolution 500uV/div vs 5mV/div real full resolution
Always background real time running waveform history buffer. vs nothing
Fast sequence acquisition (aka segmented memory acq) vs some kind of slow frame recorder.
Full speed mask test vs crap slow mask test (with false statistics die to different speed with pass or fail state)
1M FFT vs 16kt(?) FFT
Much more fast UI
Professional grade Sin(x)x interpolation vs total crap fake Sin(x)/x
True full current memory length and full sample resolution measurements vs measurements from highly decimated display data. (very extremely poor time resolution with slower time bases)
and more...
Now that you already have a nice picture of the scope, take a guess what the small Sbus connector (next to the USB host port) is intended for? ;)right, from the Chinese data sheet:
Yeah, that can't be right.....maybe an error by those listing it. :-//And with only 2 probes?????It's the 100 MHz version and the seller is Siglent USA so maybe they know something the rest of don't. :-//
https://smile.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B0771N1ZF9/ (https://smile.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B0771N1ZF9/)
found this on amazon, is this the correct model and price?
Barebones unit with zero options though.
When does the NDA get lifted?For those of us that are involved with beta testing, 4 years.
For those of us that are involved with beta testing, 4 years.I can understand that internal testing information remains confidential. However, I'm more interested in the date that reviewers and I guess testers are allowed to speak about their experiences with the released device.
However once released the unit and 'release' firmware is in the public domain.
Our beta reports remain confidential, all fair enough IMO.
Of course.For those of us that are involved with beta testing, 4 years.I can understand that internal testing information remains confidential. However, I'm more interested in the date that reviewers and I guess testers are allowed to speak about their experiences with the released device.
However once released the unit and 'release' firmware is in the public domain.
Our beta reports remain confidential, all fair enough IMO.
I am watching this with keen interest. I have been really focused on electronics as a hobby for the last year, though I have dabbled in it most of my life (64). I have a couple old Teks (475 & 2225), but I really wanted to play with a digital with its ability hold and capture signals, particularly slow ones. And I like scopes :). Almost bought a 1054Z but decided instead on a new Analog Discovery 2. I really like it, particularly as I am interested learning digital logic too. It is really a Swiss Army Knife electronics learning tool, but also I saw some changes coming, maybe, in the $4-500 4 channel scope market. This Siglent seems like the first salvo, and having the AD2 I am no longer rushed for a digital scope. It would be great to see 2 or 3 manufactures battle it out :). DaveI'm very keen to see the answer of Rigol. Are they going to cash in their reputation, or are they going toe to toe with Siglent for the budget king title? I guess it at least in part depends on the pricing Siglent decides upon. The ball is in Siglent's court now.
When does the NDA get lifted?
Siglent has made one data sheet only for both 2 and 4 channels.And with only 2 probes?????It's the 100 MHz version and the seller is Siglent USA so maybe they know something the rest of don't. :-//
https://smile.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B0771N1ZF9/ (https://smile.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/dp/B0771N1ZF9/)
found this on amazon, is this the correct model and price?
Barebones unit with zero options though.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=371936;image)
hi simone, i just saw the batterfly email. must say i'm very temptedpricing online from the 27th ;)
still no info on the AWG?
Hi guys,Welcome to the forum.
Greetings from Switzerland. I've been following the forum for quite a while and I finally decided to register as I am after a 4 channel oscilloscope and I'm watching this thread very closely. Based on the rumoured prices the difference between the 100 and 200 Mhz models seems to be quite big. Can someone tell me if Siglent have any plans in allowing the upgrade of the bandwidth? It would be pity if all that decent hardware is permanently limited to 100 Mhz without any options for upgrade what so ever. Alex
hi simone, i just saw the batterfly email. must say i'm very temptedAbout AWG, do you mean info about pricing or tech data?
still no info on the AWG?
i wonder how it will compare to the DSOX-1102G (i mean in the real world, i can compare "datasheets")
especially the FRA part, if you can really change amplitude + offset it's a potential winner :)
Should we expect any reviews before the NDA is lifted?Not unless the reviewers want to wait until they are for sale next time.
You maybe right, in fact the most of the request (with us) since yesterday are about the 200Mhz. But if the 100MHz will become hackable then it will be a different story!I'm sure there will be a market for them, but I think it won't displace the DS1054Z. If the thing becomes hackable, then yes, it'll much more of a competitor.
The 100 MHz version is listed as a two channel version, though.
At these prices I guarantee you it's not going to be a DS1054Z killer. The 100 MHz version is over 25% more expensive than an easily upgraded DS1054Z and the 200 MHz model is almost double. Even if it's quicker and has some features the Rigol hasn't, it's going to be a tough sell. There's reason the Rigol is popular and it's not because it's a flawless oscilloscope.
It is almost Xmas and we have a nice oscilloscopes fight in place :)Yeah, as stated before, I'm very curious how Rigol will respond to this. They have plenty to lose and should have the funds to pull a rabbit out of the hat.
It is nice to see so many new features in such segment and what will bring Rigol next!!!
Great time to be a electronic lover :)
I think Rigol can lower the price because they have no engineering expenses anymore. For example: the DS1054Z currently costs $349 at Tequipment.net and they have over 1100 in stock at the moment. They are probably going to do good business during the upcoming holidays.It is almost Xmas and we have a nice oscilloscopes fight in place :)Yeah, as stated before, I'm very curious how Rigol will respond to this. They have plenty to lose and should have the funds to pull a rabbit out of the hat.
It is nice to see so many new features in such segment and what will bring Rigol next!!!
Great time to be a electronic lover :)
Assuming that there aren't any major gotchas, I think that the alleged improvements over the Rigol would be worth the money, even at 100MHz vs a hacked DS1054Z.IMHO there is a big difference between the hobbyist market (where the DS1054Z seems to have set the price benchmark) and scopes for commercial use. For commercial use you need a scope which is much better polished, tested and documented than what Rigol or Siglent push out of their factories. Dealing with bugs, measurement errors and unclear documentation will simply cost money in a commercial environment. Been there, done that, lesson learned. A commercial environment puts a lot more demands on a piece of equipment than a hobby lab.
The DS1000Z series is really not satisfactory at 100MHz with more than 2 channels enabled, or at low signal levels, or when using the FFT - I especially had issues with the first 2, and they were factors in my decision to upgrade to a (launch-promo) RTB2004. That said, the DS1054Z is still at an amazing price for those with very tight budgets, and will do the job for many - I was never unhappy about buying mine!.
Given the free serial decodes (particularly important for us), I'll be suggesting at work that we grab one of the Siglents (hopefully I can nudge them towards the 200MHz option). As we can't really hack Rigol options when using them commercially, once you add the serial decoding option the price difference basically disappears even if you don't want the 100MHz bandwidth.
As with any other equipment for commercial use, a company should evaluate several different options and choose the most appropriate one without relying on the vendor's reputation. That's valid for both hardware and software. Anyway in this hobbyist price range I don't quite get the business logic behind having the same hardware and selling upgrade keys for half of the device price. In the Siglent's case I find the SDS-1104X-E price quite fair however they are asking somewhat too much for the 200 Mhz model. I think most people will buy the cheaper model because of budget constraints and/or in the hope of it eventually getting hacked. I also don't think that Rigol will come up with a similar hardware for a lot less in the next year.Assuming that there aren't any major gotchas, I think that the alleged improvements over the Rigol would be worth the money, even at 100MHz vs a hacked DS1054Z.IMHO there is a big difference between the hobbyist market (where the DS1054Z seems to have set the price benchmark) and scopes for commercial use. For commercial use you need a scope which is much better polished, tested and documented than what Rigol or Siglent push out of their factories. Dealing with bugs, measurement errors and unclear documentation will simply cost money in a commercial environment. Been there, done that, lesson learned. A commercial environment puts a lot more demands on a piece of equipment than a hobby lab.
The DS1000Z series is really not satisfactory at 100MHz with more than 2 channels enabled, or at low signal levels, or when using the FFT - I especially had issues with the first 2, and they were factors in my decision to upgrade to a (launch-promo) RTB2004. That said, the DS1054Z is still at an amazing price for those with very tight budgets, and will do the job for many - I was never unhappy about buying mine!.
Given the free serial decodes (particularly important for us), I'll be suggesting at work that we grab one of the Siglents (hopefully I can nudge them towards the 200MHz option). As we can't really hack Rigol options when using them commercially, once you add the serial decoding option the price difference basically disappears even if you don't want the 100MHz bandwidth.
IMHO there is a big difference between the hobbyist market (where the DS1054Z seems to have set the price benchmark) and scopes for commercial use. For commercial use you need a scope which is much better polished, tested and documented than what Rigol or Siglent push out of their factories. Dealing with bugs, measurement errors and unclear documentation will simply cost money in a commercial environment. Been there, done that, lesson learned. A commercial environment puts a lot more demands on a piece of equipment than a hobby lab.I know of people who use the DS1054Z in a rather serious lab and development setting. They obviously aren't going to generate vital performance report with the instrument, but if it's enough for doing the odd job, it's enough.
Hello,If it were a regular consumer product like a mobile phone, sure. However, an oscilloscope is generally used by people who tinker with equipment one way or another. Moreover, the popularity of the DS1054Z can in no small part be attributed to the possibility of hacking it into a better model. Taking all this into account, it wouldn't be really correct to look at it as if the hack doesn't exist.
For anyone who knows that Rigol can be hacked he can find the price Siglent 1104X-E and 1204X-E high, but for those who do not know that Rigol can be hacked then for him the price Siglent is correct.
One must think before saying that 1104X-E and 1204X-E Siglent is expensive!
As for hacker Siglent 1104X-E in 1204X-E, you will have to wait a long time if the 2 models are different internally!
In my opinion.
Diabolo
The 100 MHz version is listed as a two channel version, though.
At these prices I guarantee you it's not going to be a DS1054Z killer. The 100 MHz version is over 25% more expensive than an easily upgraded DS1054Z
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yesIf we're going to be honest, very few people actually need those 100 MHz, let alone 200 MHz capabilities. If you absolutely needed those, you'd likely be looking at a different class of oscilloscopes. This is about an entry level oscilloscope for entry level people, or more advanced people with relatively simple needs. You can cram all the features in the world in there, the question is whether this specific group will care enough about them to lay out another $100, or even close to $450. Four channel scope versus four channel scope. Screen buffer? What's that?
but if you really NEED the 100 MHz you'd know you WANT to have the 1 GS/s per channel in 2 channel modes or 500 MS/s in 4 channel mode
the decoder that doesn't use data from screen buffer to decode
the possibility to attach an AWG in the future, which can work with the scope
and maybe you want to look at canbus too?
if you want to put in terms of 25% more money, you get a scope that's 100% better when used at its fullest.
500MS/s vs 250MS/s per channel. that's 100% more.
14Mpts vs 6 Mpts per channel. that's more than 100% more
also CAN/LIN instead of the usuals only, call it whatever percent more
without even mentioning the rest of the wall of text..
if you want to put in terms of 25% more money, you get a scope that's 100% better when used at its fullest.
Only to you.One thing hobbyists understand well is that larger numbers are better. However, the 200 MHz model so much more expensive, that they'll start wondering whether 200 MHz is twice as good as 100 Mhz.
Most of that "wall of text" is just that, a wall of text. Gobbledygook to most of the hobby world.
not really, your typical MCU GPIO has a sufficienly fast risetime that can cause signal integrity problems if you want to use higher speed SPI peripherals for example.That doesn't matter. As long as the frequency you are looking at doesn't exceed the bandwidth limitations of the scope then you will get a signal into the oscilloscope you can use for decoding. If you want to look at signal integrity issues you'll probably need a >500MHz scope and probes which don't load the signals too much otherwise you won't get a meaningfull measurement.
I understand all this, I was just pointing out the limitation of the cheapest option, and that signal integrity can be an issue due to the compromises made.I own both, and Leo Bodnar's pulse generator. I'll capture some screenshots this evening if I have time.
That said, I'm surprised just how poorly it deals with the Sin(x)/x interpolation when running close to nyquist. I would be very interested to see a similar test made on the Siglent 200MHz (it may have already been done somewhere in another thread) - at 200MHz/500MSa/s it's running at the same BW/sample rate ratio at the rigol at 100MHz/250MSa/s.
The tek is indeed running at 5Gsa/s per channel - I included the reference to show that the source was actually nice and square to begin with. I also know that it's not the 50R feedthrough causing issues, as I tested it on the tek running in 1M mode.But in this case it's a limitation due to the sampling rate. Switch to "dots" and you'll see the limited view the Rigol must deal with.
I understand all this, I was just pointing out the limitation of the cheapest option, and that signal integrity can be an issue due to the compromises made.
I'm surprised just how poorly it deals with the Sin(x)/x interpolation when running close to nyquist (it also looks nearly as bad with Sin(x)/x off, including the pre-shoot etc).
...if you have 3+ channels enabled
What you see on the Rigol isn't a bug, it's exactly what the math says will happen if you only apply Sin(x)/x to a few samples on either side of the pixel of interest.I did say that it would be interesting to see how the Siglent does at the same ratio - this isn't exactly assuming it's better! It sounds like borjam will be doing this test under the same conditions as I did with the Rigol, which is excellent (and might help with the choice between the 100MHz and 200MHz models).
Assuming the Siglent will be better than this might backfire on you. The 200MHz model has the exact same ratio of samples to bandwidth as the Rigol.
I understand all this, I was just pointing out the limitation of the cheapest option, and that signal integrity can be an issue due to the compromises made.
Sure, but have you compared that to other devices in this price range? It's not a valid criticism of the Rigol unless you do a side-by-side comparison with others.I'm surprised just how poorly it deals with the Sin(x)/x interpolation when running close to nyquist (it also looks nearly as bad with Sin(x)/x off, including the pre-shoot etc).
Sin(x)/x isn't magic, it's a theoretical thing that only works perfectly if you apply it to every sample in the entire waveform (which obviously no oscilloscope can do).
What you see on the Rigol isn't a bug, it's exactly what the math says will happen if you only apply Sin(x)/x to a few samples on either side of the pixel of interest.
Assuming the Siglent will be better than this might backfire on you. The 200MHz model has the exact same ratio of samples to bandwidth as the Rigol....if you have 3+ channels enabled
Another red herring. With more channels enabled the Rigol reduces the sample rate so this is expected behavior, predicted by the math.
What you see on the Rigol isn't a bug, it's exactly what the math says will happen if you only apply Sin(x)/x to a few samples on either side of the pixel of interest.AFAIK other people have already proven that the way sin(x)/x interpolation is implemented on the DS1054Z is wrong and thus makes a signal look worse than it should be.
What you see on the Rigol isn't a bug, it's exactly what the math says will happen if you only apply Sin(x)/x to a few samples on either side of the pixel of interest.AFAIK other people have already proven that the way sin(x)/x interpolation is implemented on the DS1054Z is wrong and thus makes a signal look worse than it should be.
Ofcourse the other ones are better! sin(x)/x is the industry standard method to do signal reconstruction on digital oscilloscopes for decades. It is well documented so there is absolutely no reason to do it wrong. I don't know any DSO which does sin(x)/x wrong except for the DS1054Z.Yes, but that's not really the question. question is if any of the others are better, right?What you see on the Rigol isn't a bug, it's exactly what the math says will happen if you only apply Sin(x)/x to a few samples on either side of the pixel of interest.AFAIK other people have already proven that the way sin(x)/x interpolation is implemented on the DS1054Z is wrong and thus makes a signal look worse than it should be.
Ofcourse the other ones are better! sin(x)/x is the industry standard method to do signal reconstruction on digital oscilloscopes for decades. It is well documented so there is absolutely no reason to do it wrong.
I don't know any DSO which does sin(x)/x wrong except for the DS1054Z.
Look at the image Hydron posted earlier to see where you are wrong. That square wave shouldn't look like that at all. On the DS1054Z it looks like it has a serious amount of jitter which just isn't there. Look at a 40MHz square wave (with less than 60ps rise/fall times) which is equally far from the Nyquist frequency on a 200MHz 1Gs/s scope compared to the square wave Hydron shows on a DS1054Z:Ofcourse the other ones are better! sin(x)/x is the industry standard method to do signal reconstruction on digital oscilloscopes for decades. It is well documented so there is absolutely no reason to do it wrong.Well that proves it then! Nobody else could possibly fail so long as it's written down somewhere!!I don't know any DSO which does sin(x)/x wrong except for the DS1054Z.Except... it doesn't really do it wrong. That's just a thing in Rigol hater's imaginations.
I suspect it is a combination of some >nyquist frequencies getting through the filter, and something odd going on with the reconstruction, though I don't have proof of the latter. That is why I am interested in how the Siglent does when running at 200MHz & 500MSa/s - for all I know it could have similar behavior!
Anyway, I was mainly trying to point out why the premium for the SDS1104X-E over the DS1054Z might be worth it even at 100MHz.
That is why I am interested in how the Siglent does when running at 200MHz & 500MSa/s - for all I know it could have similar behavior!That's the same spec as the existing 2 ch SDS1202X-E.
What you see on the Rigol isn't a bug, it's exactly what the math says will happen if you only apply Sin(x)/x to a few samples on either side of the pixel of interest.
That's the same spec as the existing 2 ch SDS1202X-E.Yeah that's what I understood, I just haven't seen how the SDS1202X-E does in this situation either (info may be in another thread, I had a quick look but didn't see it). Are the display/interpolation algorithms unchanged between 2 and 4 channel versions?
Do remember that these 4 channel X-E's have the same inputs but doubled, 2 ADC's and 2 lots of 14 Mpts memory.
I have taken screenshots at 500 and 250 Msa/s. I have reduced the memory depth to the minimum and in order to go down to 250 Msa/s I have used a slower timebase. The screenshots have been taken with SINGLE trigger in all cases.
Also you can do single shot and in stop mode you can switch between vector or Sinc interpolation or turn it to without interpolation - just dots. There you can see how it solve Sinc. (also Siglent do not draw extra fake dots as some other scopes may do in "dots" mode). Reducing sample speed and using window zoom you may find some results where it can visually see more clearly. In these images we can see there is also real overshoots and not only Sinc made overshoots what are other things. (front end BW filtering do not have enough steep stop before Nyquist for reject aliasing.)True.
What is miss is: True sample dots highlight On/Off function when Sinc or Vectors in use.
I would say that this scope has a very serious issue when sharing the A/D converter with more than one channel.
The Siglent behaves much better.
I overlaid the Rigol waveform on the Siglent waveform in a single image. As you can see they're identical when you view the wave with the same settings.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=372960;image)I would say that this scope has a very serious issue when sharing the A/D converter with more than one channel.
There's more than one channel enabled in the image above... :popcorn:The Siglent behaves much better.
There's a major difference: The Rigol drops down to 250Ms/sec when you turn on the third channel, the Siglent doesn't (because it's only 2 channels).
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=372936;image)
At 5ns per division there's 1.25 samples per division on screen. I'm not sure how they're aligning the trigger point so exactly but it looks like they're not offsetting the rest of the wave to match. The "jitter" looks to be about 1/1.25 of a square.
There's a major difference: The Rigol drops down to 250Ms/sec when you turn on the third channel, the Siglent doesn't (because it's only 2 channels).
Identical? This is total false. If you use identical input then they can compare. Do these image have exactly same signal?The signal is the same, yes. Leo Brodnar's pulse generator connected to a T BNC adapter with a 50 ohm terminator.
Even Keysight and Tek share AD converters usually. Keep in mind you also need the hardware to support that converter and to process the data from it. These things run hot, are power hungry, and dump up to 8 or 16 Gbps of data into your FPGA and memory, not to mention the timing constraints. So it's perfectly reasonable to share ADCs between channels if you're short on money.I understand that it's perfectly reasonable, but I think the Rigol has an aliasing problem at 250 Msa/s. This pulse generator is a nasty source for this kind of test because it has lots of harmonics. Remember that the rise and fall times are less than 60 ps.
I overlaid the Rigol waveform on the Siglent waveform in a single image. As you can see they're identical when you view the wave with the same settings.My apologies, it's true at 500 Msa/s and it's an effect of interpolation, not jitter. I was about to go to bed when I wrote that.
Anyway, I was mainly trying to point out why the premium for the SDS1104X-E over the DS1054Z might be worth it even at 100MHz.
I don't have Leo's gen.. (It's on a list :-)
This is my old Hameg 8030-6, at 11 something MHz.. Horrible square..
But let's put that on the side...
Running 4 ch, no Jitter... Dot mode and vector mode...
When running 1GS an 500 GS/sec it is bit cleaner but looks the same.
You should run self cal to see if it helps. I realized that it is necessary to do self cal often.
Regards,
Sinisa
Yes, that's 1 Gsa/s. It gets interesting when you go to 500 Msa/s.Is there a reason why your screenshots are done with AC trigger coupling ? :-//
Note that I'm not criticizing the SDS1202X-E. sin(x)/x interpolation invents data of course. But it's a similar effect to that of an analog oscilloscope "filling the gaps"
Is there a reason why your screenshots are done with AC trigger coupling ? :-//Not at all, distraction. Should it matter much? I can try with DC trigger coupling. Anyway the pulse generator signal is really symmetric, so there shouldn't be a difference.
As can see it can handle signal what do not have so high frequency components. This signal do not have. Signal rise and fall times are very slow. 250MSa/s even with false Sin(x)/x can handle this kind of signal thumbs down. Sample interval is 4ns. Serious problems start with much faster signal rise/fall times.
I am yet to read the manual but will the Siglent SDS 1000X-E series incorporate a real time clock and in turn allocate time and date stamps to recorded or saved events in stand alone operation, this is important as I regularly monitor systems for glitches and require time stamped events for correlation, leaving a laptop connected and running on a remote site for this particular purpose is not always practical.Sorry Muttley the 1kX-E series don't have a RTC. :(
Sorry Muttley the 1kX-E series don't have a RTC. :(So, dear Linux based oscilloscope makers.
Yes, that's 1 Gsa/s. It gets interesting when you go to 500 Msa/s.Pick the difference.....if you can.
Sorry Muttley the 1kX-E series don't have a RTC. :(
You are quite right on both points.Sorry Muttley the 1kX-E series don't have a RTC. :(
I thought one of the previous series did have an onboard clock with time stamps for recorded events, it's shame they didn't include one on this series. :o ::)
@ Borjam : NTP is not necesary.You avoid the pain of adjusting date and time with the oscilloscope knobs :)
Pick the difference.....if you can.But not the same pulse generator as mine, which has a lot of high frequency content.
Same setup as previously except channels 1 and 2 for 500 Msa/s.
Sure but the SDG1000X is the fastest I have ATM.....can't afford the SDG6000X. :'(Pick the difference.....if you can.But not the same pulse generator as mine, which has a lot of high frequency content.
Same setup as previously except channels 1 and 2 for 500 Msa/s.
Do you think DC coupled triggering will make a difference? I'll try later.It didn't when I checked, well not for the 1 Gsa/s screenshot.
Note that I'm not criticizing it, as far as I know this is to be expected due to interpolation in the presence of a lot of high frequency components. Leo Bodnar's pulse generator has a rise time of 40 ps or better.Yep, I've been watching Leo's thread, cool little pulse gen. :)
Sure but the SDG1000X is the fastest I have ATM.....can't afford the SDG6000X. :'(I hate how this forum tends to slowly erode away the lack of need for all sorts of things you didn't even know existed. I mean, a fast pulse generator? I couldn't even figure out why I'd want a signal generator two years ago. Now I nearly must have one of these pulse generators to give the oscilloscope a workout.
It didn't when I checked, well not for the 1 Gsa/s screenshot.
Yep, I've been watching Leo's thread, cool little pulse gen. :)
I hate how this forum tends to slowly erode away the lack of need for all sorts of things you didn't even know existed. I mean, a fast pulse generator? I couldn't even figure out why I'd want a signal generator two years ago. Now I nearly must have one of these pulse generators to give the oscilloscope a workout.
I overlaid the Rigol waveform on the Siglent waveform in a single image. As you can see they're identical when you view the wave with the same settings.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=372960;image)
Identical? This is total false.
Rigol construction is cheapest possible:And this is reflected in the price. No official price yet but so far it seems like it will cost about $250 more.
1ADC1MEM/4
Siglent 4 channel construction is semi cheap:
1ADC1MEM/2 + 1ADC1MEM/2
If compare Siglent 100MHz 4 channel model and Rigol 100MHz 4 channel model:
Rigol 1Channel on, 1GSa/s max mem 24M (officially without option 12M)
Rigol 2Channel on, 500MSa/s 12M both channels. (without option 6M)
Siglent 1Channel on, 1GSa/s max mem 14M
Siglent 2Channel on, 500MSa/s max mem 7M for all channels.
Well, a fast pulse generator can be a nice learning tool. For example you can experiment with TDR. Such a fast pulse generator can beThere are a lot of not very expensive nice to haves, but added up it's still a lot.
useful to learn about the limitations of our instruments as well.
And it's not expensive at all.
Add a twist of the brightness knob and a tweak of the probe compensation and those two are identical. :-//Results are pretty similar, indeed, showing the artifacts of the interpolation.
(Corrected, at 500 Msa/s it's not jitter, but an artifact of reconstruction). However, I think there is a problem at 250 Msa/s, probably due to aliasing.No because the fundamental frequency is way below the Nyquist frequency (a factor 12.5 to be precise) and that shouldn't be a problem at all for properly implemented sin (x)/x reconstruction. Aliasing artefacts may distort the edges but it shouldn't distort the fundamental frequency of the signal. At 250Ms/s the Nyquist frequency is 125MHz. That means you can display the fundamental, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and some of the 11th harmonic of a 10MHz square wave. A DSO should have no problem showing a decent square wave in these conditions.
I would say that the Rigol has a serious aliasing problem at 250 Msa/s.
One small advantage of being a distributor......oh, that's for stock dear. ;D :-DDWell, a fast pulse generator can be a nice learning tool. For example you can experiment with TDR. Such a fast pulse generator can beThere are a lot of not very expensive nice to haves, but added up it's still a lot.
useful to learn about the limitations of our instruments as well.
And it's not expensive at all.
I'm talking about Leo Bodnar's pulse generator.One small advantage of being a distributor......oh, that's for stock dear. ;D :-DDWell, a fast pulse generator can be a nice learning tool. For example you can experiment with TDR. Such a fast pulse generator can beThere are a lot of not very expensive nice to haves, but added up it's still a lot.
useful to learn about the limitations of our instruments as well.
And it's not expensive at all.
Not sure how long that will continue to work. :scared:
(Corrected, at 500 Msa/s it's not jitter, but an artifact of reconstruction). However, I think there is a problem at 250 Msa/s, probably due to aliasing.No because the fundamental frequency is way below the Nyquist frequency (a factor 12.5 to be precise) and that shouldn't be a problem at all for properly implemented sin (x)/x reconstruction. Aliasing artefacts may distort the edges but it shouldn't distort the fundamental frequency of the signal. At 250Ms/s the Nyquist frequency is 125MHz. That means you can display the fundamental, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and some of the 11th harmonic of a 10MHz square wave. A DSO should have no problem showing a decent square wave in these conditions.
I would say that the Rigol has a serious aliasing problem at 250 Msa/s.
You should increase the frequency. It wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happens with a 20MHz square wave @500Ms/s and a 40MHz square wave @1Gs/s.(Corrected, at 500 Msa/s it's not jitter, but an artifact of reconstruction). However, I think there is a problem at 250 Msa/s, probably due to aliasing.No because the fundamental frequency is way below the Nyquist frequency (a factor 12.5 to be precise) and that shouldn't be a problem at all for properly implemented sin (x)/x reconstruction. Aliasing artefacts may distort the edges but it shouldn't distort the fundamental frequency of the signal. At 250Ms/s the Nyquist frequency is 125MHz. That means you can display the fundamental, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and some of the 11th harmonic of a 10MHz square wave. A DSO should have no problem showing a decent square wave in these conditions.
I would say that the Rigol has a serious aliasing problem at 250 Msa/s.
It seems to be something to do with the way it aligns the (reconstructed) signal with the trigger point. Remember that one sample period is 80% of a square on screen in that image (about the same as the width of the "jitter") so they must be doing some sort of fiddling to align the waves on the trigger point to make it look pretty.
I don't know why the "jitter" only happens with 3+ channels. Could be a firmware bug.
I don't know why the "jitter" only happens with 3+ channels. Could be a firmware bug.You should increase the frequency. It wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happens with a 20MHz square wave @500Ms/s and a 40MHz square wave @1Gs/s.
You should increase the frequency. It wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happens with a 20MHz square wave @500Ms/s and a 40MHz square wave @1Gs/s.I don't have the means for that. Leo's "pulser" has a fixed frequency of 10 MHz.
I overlaid the Rigol waveform on the Siglent waveform in a single image. As you can see they're identical when you view the wave with the same settings.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=372960;image)
Identical? This is total false.
Huh? Add a twist of the brightness knob and a tweak of the probe compensation and those two are identical.Rigol construction is cheapest possible:And this is reflected in the price. No official price yet but so far it seems like it will cost about $250 more.
1ADC1MEM/4
Siglent 4 channel construction is semi cheap:
1ADC1MEM/2 + 1ADC1MEM/2
(And given that the Rigol is currently selling for $328, that's a lot more...)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=372960;image)False. Period. As told, signals are far away from equal. Perhaps need some basic education.
The Siglent distributor says we should buy a Siglent, guys, so we better go with that. :box:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=372960;image)False. Period. As told, signals are far away from equal. Perhaps need some basic education.
Uhuh. :palm:
Rigol construction is cheapest possible:And this is reflected in the price. No official price yet but so far it seems like it will cost about $250 more.
1ADC1MEM/4
Siglent 4 channel construction is semi cheap:
1ADC1MEM/2 + 1ADC1MEM/2
this is reflected in the price. No official price yet but so far it seems like it will cost about $250 more.
US$499 retail for the 100MHz model.
this is reflected in the price. No official price yet but so far it seems like it will cost about $250 more.
US$499 retail for the 100MHz model.
OK, so about 42% more (if the current Rigol discounts stick).
https://www.batterfly.com/shop/siglent-sds1104x-e (https://www.batterfly.com/shop/siglent-sds1104x-e)
429,00€ exVAT
https://www.batterfly.com/shop/rigol-ds1054z (https://www.batterfly.com/shop/rigol-ds1054z)
310,00€ exVAT (Xmas Promo)
EU is not US.https://www.batterfly.com/shop/siglent-sds1104x-e (https://www.batterfly.com/shop/siglent-sds1104x-e)
429,00€ exVAT
Sounds about right if it's $500-ish (although 16% tax would be very low).https://www.batterfly.com/shop/rigol-ds1054z (https://www.batterfly.com/shop/rigol-ds1054z)
310,00€ exVAT (Xmas Promo)
You can do much better than that:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/rigol-ds1054z-on-sale-$349-with-options-tequipment/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/rigol-ds1054z-on-sale-$349-with-options-tequipment/)
If we use a coupon then subtract 16% tax it comes out at $282.
EU is not US.
The 200Mhz version costs 659 euro, very big difference
Batronix:Denying reality won't change a thing. If you can show us how to hack the 100 MHz Siglent to the 200 MHz model, then you'll have a point.
Rigol 100MHz, DS1104Z EUR 579,- exVAT
Riglol 50MHz, DS1054Z EUR 318,- exVAT (limited time -6% offer price).
Very big difference. ;)
since this thread is ON I lost my life ... can't stop watching ... need a cureAren't you a distributor of this product? Your opinion is biased, you can't stop watching because you want to sell as many units as possible.
This is your opinion based on your reality. I'm personally in love with test equipment and read so many post and yes the forum helped me to find the enthusiasm to do even more. Yes I sell for living, is it an issue? If you like a discount code PM me lol :-+since this thread is ON I lost my life ... can't stop watching ... need a cureAren't you a distributor of this product? Your opinion is biased, you can't stop watching because you want to sell as many units as possible.
Batronix:Denying reality won't change a thing. If you can show us how to hack the 100 MHz Siglent to the 200 MHz model, then you'll have a point.
Rigol 100MHz, DS1104Z EUR 579,- exVAT
Riglol 50MHz, DS1054Z EUR 318,- exVAT (limited time -6% offer price).
Very big difference. ;)
No thank you, I already have a REAL OSCILLOSCOPE ;)This is your opinion based on your reality. I'm personally in love with test equipment and read so many post and yes the forum helped me to find the enthusiasm to do even more. Yes I sell for living, is it an issue? If you like a discount code PM me lol :-+since this thread is ON I lost my life ... can't stop watching ... need a cureAren't you a distributor of this product? Your opinion is biased, you can't stop watching because you want to sell as many units as possible.
One more thing, my opinion is not biased, if I have to talk shi... about product I do it no problem :box:
uauauauau :) I was kidding ... or maybe not ... we are out of the World Cup so I need you have to accept my sarcasm :-+No thank you, I already have a REAL OSCILLOSCOPE ;)This is your opinion based on your reality. I'm personally in love with test equipment and read so many post and yes the forum helped me to find the enthusiasm to do even more. Yes I sell for living, is it an issue? If you like a discount code PM me lol :-+since this thread is ON I lost my life ... can't stop watching ... need a cureAren't you a distributor of this product? Your opinion is biased, you can't stop watching because you want to sell as many units as possible.
One more thing, my opinion is not biased, if I have to talk shi... about product I do it no problem :box:
We are out of the world cup too (US), so on that topic we are evenuauauauau :) I was kidding ... or maybe not ... we are out of the World Cup so I need you have to accept my sarcasm :-+No thank you, I already have a REAL OSCILLOSCOPE ;)This is your opinion based on your reality. I'm personally in love with test equipment and read so many post and yes the forum helped me to find the enthusiasm to do even more. Yes I sell for living, is it an issue? If you like a discount code PM me lol :-+since this thread is ON I lost my life ... can't stop watching ... need a cureAren't you a distributor of this product? Your opinion is biased, you can't stop watching because you want to sell as many units as possible.
One more thing, my opinion is not biased, if I have to talk shi... about product I do it no problem :box:
Rigol construction is cheapest possible:And this is reflected in the price. No official price yet but so far it seems like it will cost about $250 more.
1ADC1MEM/4
Siglent 4 channel construction is semi cheap:
1ADC1MEM/2 + 1ADC1MEM/2
US$499 retail for the 100MHz model.And this is reflected in the price. No official price yet but so far it seems like it will cost about $250 more.
Rigol construction is cheapest possible:
1ADC1MEM/4
Siglent 4 channel construction is semi cheap:
1ADC1MEM/2 + 1ADC1MEM/2
Even without a hack, the 100Mhz version could be the best buy in most cases
We don't know if there is only a software difference between the two models
uauauauau :) I was kidding ... or maybe not ... we are out of the World Cup so I need you have to accept my sarcasm :-+We (NZ) are out too, though it was a long shot trying to beat Peru.
We like to plat with balls but sometimes we let them drop augh!!uauauauau :) I was kidding ... or maybe not ... we are out of the World Cup so I need you have to accept my sarcasm :-+We (NZ) are out too, though it was a long shot trying to beat Peru.
On the bright side, you're in the Rugby World Cup, which I think is better :P (in the same pool too)
Can someone please do a real test on the decoder functionality in the oscilloscope?I agree. It is the advanced features like decoding and measurements where cheap scopes often fall flat on their face. Every scope can do squiggly lines and has a different user interface which a reviewer may like or not but that is just his/her opinion.
Really debug an SPI signal or a CAN bus signal, and use all 4 channels for the decoding.
Even on the 2 channel model which has been out there for quite some time, nobody on YouTube did a decent decoder test.
Connecting a sinus signal to the inputs is not really a decent test. For some people that's the best that they can do for some reason.
Can someone please do a real test on the decoder functionality in the oscilloscope?There's 2 tools that can help here;
Really debug an SPI signal or a CAN bus signal, and use all 4 channels for the decoding.
I do not even understand why Rigol fans are so alarmed about this Siglent model.I'm not alarmed, I just think the Siglent fans are funny.
some like blonde and some like redheads.
Can someone please do a real test on the decoder functionality in the oscilloscope?
(very quick teardown video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kay4Jk2DHuE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kay4Jk2DHuE)
What Dave shows is definitely a bug because it isn't consistent. If it is some kind of persistence mode then I'd expect the previous acquisition to show in a darker shade so the most recent acquisition is clear to distinguish (for example: Tektronix does this on some models). Normal mode or single mode doesn't matter. In either case the last acquisition should be shown and not two different acquisitions.
But if designer make it more sophisticated there also can be user selectable choice - if designer want do it. Leave last acguisitions (stacked) on the screen or leave only last (after short refresh time).That isn't sophisticated. That is called variable persistence and it has been available since around 1990 on (for example) the Tektronix TDS500/TDS700 series and many other DSOs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kay4Jk2DHuE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kay4Jk2DHuE)
What Dave shows is definitely a bugYes and no.
Any idea when the full review will be posted? Still trying to decide between that and the rigol.
If you're going up to $500 then the Keysight 1000X isn't far away and that's a better 'scope than the Siglent.
If you're going up to $500 then the Keysight 1000X isn't far away and that's a better 'scope than the Siglent.
How it is better?
Two channels and just everywhere you tell that 4 channel is must.
If you're going up to $500 then the Keysight 1000X isn't far away and that's a better 'scope than the Siglent.
How it is better?
I'm assured that the firmware isn't full of bugs, that all measurements are 100% perfect. There's a guy from Keysight who talks directly to EEVBLOG users if they find anything.
Also, sorry to derail the thread. I can move my questions elsewhere if necessary.
The 2 channel Siglent didn't have a stellar releaseTwo channels and just everywhere you tell that 4 channel is must.
It's more like 2+1 channels - the trigger input can also be displayed on screen.
I don't recall saying "4 channel is must" but I've often said "2 channels isn't enough".
Are these new X-E models replacing an existing model and if so which one are they going to drop.My guess is the low memory depth CFL series.
@rf-loop
The user has the choice already. It’s the stop button. Do we really need an automatic timeout? I for one do not, for sure.
The additional digital channel can be used on the serial decode function and it can also be added to the analog bus to form a 3-bit parallel decode bus.If you're going up to $500 then the Keysight 1000X isn't far away and that's a better 'scope than the Siglent.
How it is better?
I'm assured that the firmware isn't full of bugs, that all measurements are 100% perfect. There's a guy from Keysight who talks directly to EEVBLOG users if they find anything.
The 2 channel Siglent didn't have a stellar releaseTwo channels and just everywhere you tell that 4 channel is must.
It's more like 2+1 channels - the trigger input can also be displayed on screen.
I don't recall saying "4 channel is must" but I've often said "2 channels isn't enough".
It's more like 2+1 channels - the trigger input can also be displayed on screen.
I don't recall saying "4 channel is must" but I've often said "2 channels isn't enough".
Can the trigger input work like a normal input in that regard (math, measure, etc) or does it just display on the screen? That might work.
Does anyone know the ''high-res'' bit depth and bw limit in high res mode on these things?
Datasheet/manual is not clear on that.
Thanks!
I ordered a SDS1104X-E from Batronix :)
So I got a couple of the recommended WiFi dongles today as my beta unit wasn't shipped with one.That $69 wifi dongle looks suspiciously like the ones Microcenter sells for $5 (http://www.microcenter.com/product/486131/W311Mi_Wireless_N_Pico_USB_20_Adapter), I wonder if they would work?....It's not.
In our option listings the WiFi dongle is listed as TL-WN725N.
http://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/cat-5520_TL-WN725N.html#overview (http://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/cat-5520_TL-WN725N.html#overview)
I've been told the gold version is the one to get, why I haven't sussed out yet. :-//Would be shitty design if it's an user-accessible USB port (with USB logo no less) but won't accept standard-compliant USB stuff.Yep, we need to fiddle a bit with the WiFi dongle and see what else will work.
BUT you need buy the WIFI software option for it to work anyway unless a hack for it is found.
If any channel is set for < 5mV/div (1X selected) then first 30 minutes after start, it need note that it do some kind of partial small auto"cal" every 15 second. It can see on the screen as some kind of short pause/"hick-up". Or example if scope is in Roll mode, every 15 second it restart rolling trace. Or if acquisition mode is average, this average resets etc.
If any channel is set for < 5mV/div (1X selected) then first 30 minutes after start, it need note that it do some kind of partial small auto"cal" every 15 second. It can see on the screen as some kind of short pause/"hick-up". Or example if scope is in Roll mode, every 15 second it restart rolling trace. Or if acquisition mode is average, this average resets etc.
And so it begins.
The long list of "features"... :popcorn:
Rigol DS1000Z do not have <5mV/div.If any channel is set for < 5mV/div (1X selected) then first 30 minutes after start, it need note that it do some kind of partial small auto"cal" every 15 second. It can see on the screen as some kind of short pause/"hick-up". Or example if scope is in Roll mode, every 15 second it restart rolling trace. Or if acquisition mode is average, this average resets etc.And so it begins.
The long list of "features"... :popcorn:
Rigol DS1000Z do not have <5mV/div.If any channel is set for < 5mV/div (1X selected) then first 30 minutes after start, it need note that it do some kind of partial small auto"cal" every 15 second. It can see on the screen as some kind of short pause/"hick-up". Or example if scope is in Roll mode, every 15 second it restart rolling trace. Or if acquisition mode is average, this average resets etc.And so it begins.
The long list of "features"... :popcorn:
Well that makes it perfectly OK for Siglent to do this screen clearing thing then.
How protocol decoding works on these new Siglents? Do they take only on-screen data or they do processing of full buffer of data to be decoded?I'm going to do it right now even if my cables are not the best for higher frequencies. I will use a SDG6052X (the video of it is already online)
Can somebody compare 100 and 200M versions (e.g. how 50/75/100M square wave look on both of the units)? Please :)
How protocol decoding works on these new Siglents? Do they take only on-screen data or they do processing of full buffer of data to be decoded?Same as previous 1000X and X+ series and 2000X with user skill. ;)
How protocol decoding works on these new Siglents? Do they take only on-screen data or they do processing of full buffer of data to be decoded?
But then you'll have to re-capture a longer trace if you want to see more and you will always need to use zoom mode which takes away screen space. That is pretty terrible if you are looking at 4 channels and the event you are triggering on takes some effort/waiting to happen. Why doesn't Siglent make their scopes work like anyone else's? Have the user select the memory depth and use that and never ever switch back to auto memory unless the user explicitly selects that mode.How protocol decoding works on these new Siglents? Do they take only on-screen data or they do processing of full buffer of data to be decoded?Same as previous 1000X and X+ series and 2000X with user skill. ;)
Display a long stream at slow timebase setting and then use zoom for detail. Event table can be displayed to help navigate.
Only when there is not thermal equilibrium time estimate reached it do some automatic self adjust and only in case when high sensitivity range 500uV/div - 2mV/div is in use.
Siglent is not only oscilloscope what do self adjustment when thermal drift with high sensitivity range in use. Some oscilloscopes may have user selection for disable and enable this self adjust.
Is it first time you hear about this kind of things is oscilloscopes or other T&M instruments?
a very nice thing keysight 3000x can do compared to scopes in simillar and lower class is that it can decode CAN and apply a dbc file to the decoded data (so ID 0xABCD will read as "Engine ECU #1" for example)Please feel free to come to visit us!
can this siglent or any siglent do that? makes it a lot easier to interpret data before going to a canbus analyzer... (if none can, please appropriate people, take note..)
by the way i was looking at simone's video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsW8p21x_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsW8p21x_A)
liking what i'm seeing so far..
It'd be nice to look at some high speed SPI and see how good/bad is it when reducing the timebase. I'd be happy to test it myself or bring a board to test but i have no reason to come to bologna before the new year, i'm busy all weekends... (well i'll probably be there at new year's but no work, all play :) )
I found out on the Batronix website that the AWG and LA options are both split in an extra hardware option and a software license.Yes both SW and HW for generator and logic analyzer are splitter, the HW will be available probably close to Xmas or new year.
This is a bit weird IMO as the extra hardware option is not meaningful without the software license.
I am under the impression that they did this to make the cost seem lower, as the cost gets quite steep if you add both the hardware option and the software license.
If you would go for the 200MHz version of the 4 channel model, and throw in an AWG and LA option (each time both the hardware option and software license), the overall price reaches the 1000 EUR barrier and beyond.
I wonder if that price point is still competitive, or if there are other more appealing options at the competitors for an oscilloscope with AWG and LA options?
I found out on the Batronix website that the AWG and LA options are both split in an extra hardware option and a software license.
This is a bit weird IMO as the extra hardware option is not meaningful without the software license.
I am under the impression that they did this to make the cost seem lower, as the cost gets quite steep if you add both the hardware option and the software license.
If you would go for the 200MHz version of the 4 channel model, and throw in an AWG and LA option (each time both the hardware option and software license), the overall price reaches the 1000 EUR barrier and beyond.
I wonder if that price point is still competitive, or if there are other more appealing options at the competitors for an oscilloscope with AWG and LA options?
Yes it does.Seeing is believing. Siglent promised that as well (I specifically asked for it!) when they released the SDS2000 but decoding the digital channels didn't work.
Same principle for the AWG, so why buy the single channel USB AWG that BTW has a limited output range (p-p) if you already have a standalone Siglent AWG The literature indicates it can control all existing Siglent AWG's, SDG1032X works fine with it, Bode plots and all.
Yes 2 parts for this option makes perfect sense too.
I think the FG SW option is not a requirement for Bode PlotHard to know for sure as new units will have trial licences for all the SW options.
Same principle for the AWG, so why buy the single channel USB AWG that BTW has a limited output range (p-p) if you already have a standalone Siglent AWG The literature indicates it can control all existing Siglent AWG's, SDG1032X works fine with it, Bode plots and all.If it can drive a Siglent AWG that the customer already owns, there should be no extra license to use it. Siglent should charge only for the AWG Hardware. It is a really bad marketing decision if they are charging for the software on the scope if it is driving a Siglent AWG. If it is to drive a non-Siglent AWG, maybe they can charge for it.
Yes 2 parts for this option makes perfect sense too.
Good point.Same principle for the AWG, so why buy the single channel USB AWG that BTW has a limited output range (p-p) if you already have a standalone Siglent AWG The literature indicates it can control all existing Siglent AWG's, SDG1032X works fine with it, Bode plots and all.If it can drive a Siglent AWG that the customer already owns, there should be no extra license to use it. Siglent should charge only for the AWG Hardware. It is a really bad marketing decision if they are charging for the software on the scope if it is driving a Siglent AWG.
Yes 2 parts for this option makes perfect sense too.
If it is to drive a non-Siglent AWG, maybe they can charge for it.Maybe ? :-//
Could You please show us, how 100M and 200M units display the same signal (eg. 25/50/75M square wave)?a very nice thing keysight 3000x can do compared to scopes in simillar and lower class is that it can decode CAN and apply a dbc file to the decoded data (so ID 0xABCD will read as "Engine ECU #1" for example)Please feel free to come to visit us!
can this siglent or any siglent do that? makes it a lot easier to interpret data before going to a canbus analyzer... (if none can, please appropriate people, take note..)
by the way i was looking at simone's video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsW8p21x_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsW8p21x_A)
liking what i'm seeing so far..
It'd be nice to look at some high speed SPI and see how good/bad is it when reducing the timebase. I'd be happy to test it myself or bring a board to test but i have no reason to come to bologna before the new year, i'm busy all weekends... (well i'll probably be there at new year's but no work, all play :) )
I just ordered one from the EU, I am wondering and can't figure it out. Can you have a gen function on one of the outputs with a software license only or do you have to buy the license and the hardware module to have wave gen?There is NO inbuilt AWG. The optional 25 MHz external AWG is USB powered and controlled by the scope. For this you need buy the HW and SW.
Above is very poor connection techniques to even attempt to show signal fidelity.Could You please show us, how 100M and 200M units display the same signal (eg. 25/50/75M square wave)?a very nice thing keysight 3000x can do compared to scopes in simillar and lower class is that it can decode CAN and apply a dbc file to the decoded data (so ID 0xABCD will read as "Engine ECU #1" for example)Please feel free to come to visit us!
can this siglent or any siglent do that? makes it a lot easier to interpret data before going to a canbus analyzer... (if none can, please appropriate people, take note..)
by the way i was looking at simone's video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsW8p21x_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsW8p21x_A)
liking what i'm seeing so far..
It'd be nice to look at some high speed SPI and see how good/bad is it when reducing the timebase. I'd be happy to test it myself or bring a board to test but i have no reason to come to bologna before the new year, i'm busy all weekends... (well i'll probably be there at new year's but no work, all play :) )
I'm thinking about one of these, but I'm not sure how much 200M in reality differs from 100M...
So if you already have a Siglent SDG**** AWG then you would only need to buy the AWG SW option.
Edit.
Above last sentence is true for Bode plot usage only, not general Siglent AWG control usage.
I mentioned I can't test this to be sure until new stock arrives.So if you already have a Siglent SDG**** AWG then you would only need to buy the AWG SW option.
Edit.
Above last sentence is true for Bode plot usage only, not general Siglent AWG control usage.
That's really disappointing to have to purchase the software license even if you already have a Siglent AWG, those are not cheap. I see the license price is $109, seems like a heavy punishment for existing customers.
I mentioned I can't test this to be sure until new stock arrives.
Siglent sent me this:
1. Siglent SDG**** AWG don't need to buy the SW option.
2. SDS1004X-E also can't control the SDG*** AWG.
Only the SAG1021 hardware module can be controlled by SDS1004X-E.
1. I take this to mean any Siglent SDG**** can be used for Bode plot.
2. DSO can only control SDG**** for Bode plot usage.
So it may seem that the AWG SW option is only needed for general AWG usage control of the SAG1021 HW.
Please Siglent confirm.
Is it right place that this selection is under Utility menu is other question. So or so, but this feature is good to have.
Is it right place that this selection is under Utility menu is other question. So or so, but this feature is good to have.
This is only a first shot, not the final solution, which will go even further. Stay tuned ;)
Could You please show us, how 100M and 200M units display the same signal (eg. 25/50/75M square wave)?the first difference I see, are 357€ ... (WTF, Rigol1054 sells for 379€, the entire scope)
I'm thinking about one of these, but I'm not sure how much 200M in reality differs from 100M...
One thing what I hope is that Siglent develop zoomed display more nice for eyes.
Least when I use horizontal zoomed window my priority is looking this zoomed window.
It feels bit annoying that display is vertically divided 1:1. I feel better if zoomed window height is more than unzoomed upper part. Unzoomed upper part is only for select what part of whole waveform I want zoom. But for signal details I look zoomed bottom part. It is much better if this part get more height on display. Example 1/4 for unzoomed and 3/4 for zoomed. Why user use zoom. Because he want see details. So, who do not show details as good as can.
No need of FG software option for Bode PlotSo if you already have a Siglent SDG**** AWG then you would only need to buy the AWG SW option.
Edit.
Above last sentence is true for Bode plot usage only, not general Siglent AWG control usage.
That's really disappointing to have to purchase the software license even if you already have a Siglent AWG, those are not cheap. I see the license price is $109, seems like a heavy punishment for existing customers.
Edit: This may be incorrect.
No need of FG software option for Bode PlotSo if you already have a Siglent SDG**** AWG then you would only need to buy the AWG SW option.
Edit.
Above last sentence is true for Bode plot usage only, not general Siglent AWG control usage.
That's really disappointing to have to purchase the software license even if you already have a Siglent AWG, those are not cheap. I see the license price is $109, seems like a heavy punishment for existing customers.
Edit: This may be incorrect.
I have been watching development around new Siglent scopes for some time. Considering SDS1104X-E.Welcome to the forum.
Have a question. The WiFi adapter for 4-channel scopes on Siglent US site http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=5109&tid=1&T=2 (http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-detailxx.aspx?id=5109&tid=1&T=2) is listed as TL_WN725N. Google resolves it as TP-Link N150 Wireless Nano USB Adapter (TL-WN725N) listed on Amazon for $7.99. Can someone with the scope check if this TP-Link in fact works? Does WiFi option require license fees?
So, let me get it straight. $49 paid for WiFi adapter buys an adapter and a license key?No, just the WiFi adapter/dongle at Siglent retail price. :(
On top of that, one needs to buy a software for $69 (prices taken from Saelig site)? Somewhat steep.You just need buy the SW (license key) IF you can source the dongle cheaper elsewhere.
So, let me get it straight. $49 paid for WiFi adapter buys an adapter and a license key?No, just the WiFi adapter/dongle at Siglent retail price. :(
a very nice thing keysight 3000x can do compared to scopes in simillar and lower class is that it can decode CAN and apply a dbc file to the decoded data (so ID 0xABCD will read as "Engine ECU #1" for example)
can this siglent or any siglent do that? makes it a lot easier to interpret data before going to a canbus analyzer... (if none can, please appropriate people, take note..)
by the way i was looking at simone's video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsW8p21x_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsW8p21x_A)
liking what i'm seeing so far..
It'd be nice to look at some high speed SPI and see how good/bad is it when reducing the timebase. I'd be happy to test it myself or bring a board to test but i have no reason to come to bologna before the new year, i'm busy all weekends... (well i'll probably be there at new year's but no work, all play :) )
a very nice thing keysight 3000x can do compared to scopes in simillar and lower class is that it can decode CAN and apply a dbc file to the decoded data (so ID 0xABCD will read as "Engine ECU #1" for example)
can this siglent or any siglent do that? makes it a lot easier to interpret data before going to a canbus analyzer... (if none can, please appropriate people, take note..)
by the way i was looking at simone's video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsW8p21x_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsW8p21x_A)
liking what i'm seeing so far..
It'd be nice to look at some high speed SPI and see how good/bad is it when reducing the timebase. I'd be happy to test it myself or bring a board to test but i have no reason to come to bologna before the new year, i'm busy all weekends... (well i'll probably be there at new year's but no work, all play :) )
I'd like to see a similar video for the 1104 with a 100mhz input signal and also a video with SPI decoding
There is one - just exactly one - difference. Analog front end before AD converters analog frequency bandwidth is different. Every other things are equal exactly.It means no software hack from 100MHz to 200MHz model :(
It means no software hack from 100MHz to 200MHz model :(I did not say that.
Then at the component level they are the sameIt means no software hack from 100MHz to 200MHz model :(I did not say that.
Who knows how analog front end BW is adjusted ;)
And what about probe compensation issue (known from 2ch model)? Is it "available" in 4ch models?
And what about probe compensation issue (known from 2ch model)? Is it "available" in 4ch models?Not available. Also not available in new 2 channel models out from factory. (no missing capacitor anymore)
The reason is obvious: even China suffers from the plague called bean counters or worse: some good old Muntzing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntzing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntzing) ! Or let's move over to a bed time story from Bob Pease: http://www.electronicdesign.com/boards/whats-all-muntzing-stuff-anyhow (http://www.electronicdesign.com/boards/whats-all-muntzing-stuff-anyhow)And what about probe compensation issue (known from 2ch model)? Is it "available" in 4ch models?Not available. Also not available in new 2 channel models out from factory. (no missing capacitor anymore. Why it was missing from its original designed place, "who knows".)
Standard delivery:
- oscilloscope
- 4 passive probes
- power cable
- usb cable
- certificate
So, let me get it straight. $49 paid for WiFi adapter buys an adapter and a license key?No, just the WiFi adapter/dongle at Siglent retail price. :(QuoteOn top of that, one needs to buy a software for $69 (prices taken from Saelig site)? Somewhat steep.You just need buy the SW (license key) IF you can source the dongle cheaper elsewhere.
But not all will need WiFi connectivity as the LAN port accomplishes the same functionality.
I found it there was no advantage IF you had access to a wired LAN.
As time passes other WiFi dongles will be tried and a list of 'working' ones made.
The silver (not gold) version of TL-WN725N may work fine too, we just don't know yet.
For quick and easy small size (Kb's) screenshots, a USB stick is still the most convenient.
Now THIS is nickel and diming -- it's not like siglent is developing a wifi driver, they're just gonna use the same kernel module that red pitaya or anyone else who buys a Zynq would get in the BSP.
I can understand charging for the logic analyzer and the AWG but for wifi it's a bit much. Hopefully the firmware can be hacked to enable wifi regardless.
Can someone please do a real test on the decoder functionality in the oscilloscope?Some basic/simple SPI decoding screenshots FYI
Self explanatingAre you sure ?
Bode plot (optional)
Bode Plot is not optional, it is standard, press utility button and you find itI assume you're going to need a signal generator, right? Whether it's the optional unit or another discrete device.
Yes correct, SAG1020 or other Siglent generatorsConsidering the hardware required for a bode plot is optional, it's not unreasonable to say bode plots are therefore optional :)
from the user manual:
The bode plot application for the SDS1000X-E (only 4 channels scope supports this application) controls a external arbitrary waveform generator(AWG, only the Siglent’s arbitrary waveform generator can be supported ) to sweep a sine wave across a range of frequencies while measuring the input to and output from a device under test (DUT). At each frequency, gain and phase are measured and plotted on a Bode chart.
Here is simple BodePlot (and really poor messy hand woven RC) in bit noisy environment and perhaps poor setup BodePlot settings.I found performance could be improved (speed) by reassigning Bode plot channels to use both ADC's instead of using default Bode plot channels 1 and 2. ;)
It have three different resolution (steps), low, middle and high. 21, 101 and 501 points. In image 501 points in use.
Generator is SDG1032X
Just connect USB and BodePlot function automatically do all setups for SDG. No need touch SDG at all (exept cables and power on)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=376464;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=376466;image)
UART decoding seems to be limited to 334000baud? 10Mbaud would be nicer :)A check with my beta unit shows UART 5Mbaud custom setting is available BUT this needs confirmation from a fresh to market unit. Possibly there were last minute tweaks to firmware prior to release.
UART decoding seems to be limited to 334000baud? 10Mbaud would be nicer :)A check with my beta unit shows UART 5Mbaud custom setting is available BUT this needs confirmation from a fresh to market unit. Possibly there were last minute tweaks to firmware prior to release.
FW version = same.UART decoding seems to be limited to 334000baud? 10Mbaud would be nicer :)A check with my beta unit shows UART 5Mbaud custom setting is available BUT this needs confirmation from a fresh to market unit. Possibly there were last minute tweaks to firmware prior to release.
I have FW version 7.6.1.12
FPGA version 2017-11-07
UART custom speed Max 5M
What is your version?
I don't get it. Just judging from the product photo, the probes do not look like high quality stuff. I assume the whole sampling electronic in the little boxes, or is it just a bunch of (super "expensive") passive components?
SDS1104X-E: € 510,51The image on the Batronix site is of the LA probeset for SDS2000X series NOT for SDS1*04X-E.
AWG + Software Option for it: € 165.41 + € 113.05 = € 304.46
Hmmm, I guess this price is ok but no cheap. I assume you will find a standalone ARB that performs better for the same money.
Logic Analyser Probes + Software Option: € 342.72 + € 113.05 = € 455.77
I don't get it. Just judging from the product photo, the probes do not look like high quality stuff. I assume the whole sampling electronic in the little boxes, or is it just a bunch of (super "expensive") passive components?
(Prices from https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1104X-E.html (https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1104X-E.html))
First observations with 1104X-E - bode plot is not autoranging on the DUT channel, which is kinda lame. CSV export from bode is empty. Bode does not work with rebranded siglent AWG. I might try to push siglent fw on the AWG.
Siglent Bode Plot does not look good, why all the ripple? I don't think the filter is causing it, so the plot is not a good representation.Not good ? :-//
Here is the Keysight EDUX1002G bode plot (50 ohm passthrough connector) to compare...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=376964;image)
Siglent Bode Plot does not look good, why all the ripple? I don't think the filter is causing it, so the plot is not a good representation.
Here is the Keysight EDUX1002G bode plot (50 ohm passthrough connector) to compare...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=376964;image)
A friend loaned me the scope for a test drive. We'll se how it fares :).I don't think the HW configuration will allow it.
Feature suggestion/request:
Would it be possible to make back BNC trigger bidirectional? So it can be used as trigger-in?
And what about probe compensation issue (known from 2ch model)? Is it "available" in 4ch models?While setting up some probes today I remembered your post so this is how they look.
Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy?
Of course there is a gap for the BW (50Mhz vs 100Mhz) but I don't know if this difference is worth for the price, for hobby use.
Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy?
Of course there is a gap for the BW (50Mhz vs 100Mhz) but I don't know if this difference is worth for the price, for hobby use.
The Rigol is easy to convert to 100MHz bandwidth, just press the right sequence of buttons on the front panel. :)
The Rigol is very slow at serial decoding and FFT. If you need these functions, I think the siglent is a better buy.Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy?
Of course there is a gap for the BW (50Mhz vs 100Mhz) but I don't know if this difference is worth for the price, for hobby use.
The Rigol is easy to convert to 100MHz bandwidth, just press the right sequence of buttons on the front panel. :)
Greetings to all of Brazil. I use Google translate. I am an old reader of the blog. As a hobby I am a ham radio. Now I decided to participate and ask questions. Soon I want to buy a Digital Oscilloscope, I already had a Hitachi analog oscilloscope, 35 MHz. It was a "disappointment to children's fault" of the "probing" of the SDS1202X-E and SDS1204X-E. It seems to me that in model SDS1202X-e the problem has already been solved. On the question of SDS1204X-E how is the solution?Welcome to the forum.
Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy?
Hi, I've seen the Rigol DS1054Z now sold with all options unlocked and it costs about 120 Euro less than the SDS1104X, do you think that the Siglent is still a good buy?
Siglent Technologies has kindly lent me their new SDS1204X-E oscilloscope (200 MHz, 4 channels) to help the lxi-tools open source effort :-+
I hooked it up, calibrated the 4 included probes, and after enabling the network interface (DHCP) it was easily discovered with lxi-tools.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/?action=dlattach;attach=385242)
It turns out that this is an absolutely blazingly fast scope, especially in terms of LXI/LAN SCPI command processing performance!
With the benchmark feature I'm getting ~300 requests/s via TCP/VXI11:Code: [Select]$ lxi benchmark --address 192.168.1.125
Benchmarking by sending 100 ID requests. Please wait...
Result: 301.5 requests/second
And I get ~600 requests/s via TCP/RAW:Code: [Select]$ lxi benchmark --raw --address 192.168.1.125
Benchmarking by sending 100 ID requests. Please wait...
Result: 598.9 requests/second
This is quite impressive. Compared, the performance of e.g. the Rigol DS1054Z is ~30 requests/s via TCP/VXI11 and ~160 requests/s via TCP/RAW.
Of course, the faster performance is to be expected from a newly released scope which clearly uses a newer and faster chipset. However, fact still is, it is very fast and it is one of the first low cost scopes that makes it possible to easily implement a poor-mans data logger using LXI/LAN polling that can consistently sample data at e.g. 100 Hz or more.
I also notice that Siglent uses standard LXI ports as defined here: http://www.lxistandard.org/About/LXI-Protocols.aspx (http://www.lxistandard.org/About/LXI-Protocols.aspx)
That is, the available network ports for the SDS1204X-E are:Code: [Select]$ nmap -p- 192.168.1.125
Starting Nmap 7.60 ( [url]https://nmap.org[/url] ) at 2018-01-08 15:18 CET
Nmap scan report for 192.168.1.125
Host is up (0.042s latency).
Not shown: 65529 closed ports
PORT STATE SERVICE
23/tcp open telnet
80/tcp open http
111/tcp open rpcbind
918/tcp open unknown
5024/tcp open scpi-telnet
5025/tcp open scpi-raw
Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 40.14 seconds
In particular, they use standard port 5025 for SCPI/RAW and port 5024 for SCPI/telnet. This is one of the odd things that Rigol fails to do for the DS1054Z (they place it on non-standard port 5555):Code: [Select]$ nmap -p- 192.168.1.210
Starting Nmap 7.60 ( [url]https://nmap.org[/url] ) at 2018-01-08 15:19 CET
Nmap scan report for 192.168.1.210
Host is up (0.080s latency).
Not shown: 65529 closed ports
PORT STATE SERVICE
80/tcp open http
111/tcp open rpcbind
617/tcp open sco-dtmgr
618/tcp open dei-icda
619/tcp open compaq-evm
5555/tcp open freeciv
Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 40.54 seconds
Taking a screenshot with the SDS1204X-E is very fast too:Code: [Select]$ time lxi screenshot -a 192.168.1.125
Loaded siglent-sds screenshot plugin
Saved screenshot image to screenshot_192.168.1.125_2018-01-08_15:37:22.bmp
real 0m0,361s
user 0m0,006s
sys 0m0,026s
Only ~0.4 second!
It's also nice to see that the Siglent scope has a small and light form factor which feels solid.
My first impressions are good - I'm looking forward to more testing with this instrument during the development of the GUI frontend for lxi-tools. It will also make a nice addition to the pool of instruments that I plan to use for lxi-tools performance and regression testing.
I have bought this scope and I love it, but I think I just discovered a bug, which happens in Normal trigger, run mode.I'm pretty sure it's not a bug.
If you need the precise config files to replicate the issue ask, I can post them!
What do you think?
I had to go back and update the benchmark performance numbers for the Siglent SDS1204X-E because it turns out my network routing tables were messed up so all tests were performed over wifi - arrghhhh! |OAnd a realtime vid demonstrating it's speed:
Over cabled network it's not doing ~300 requests/second.... It's doing ~1100 requests/second!!!!
Bam! Thats almost as fast as a Dolorean in overdrive!
With such result there is plenty room to make a poor-mans-datalogger sampling maybe several values at e.g. 100Hz or more.
Oh, and the screenshot live view feature in lxi-gui is now even more smooth hitting about 7 frames/second.
I captured a video instead to capture the time correctly:Download and play it. ;) :popcorn:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/lxi-tools/misc/master/lxi-gui-benchmark-live-view-sds1204xe.webm
It demonstrates the benchmark and live screenshot feature on the SDS1204X-E. It feels quite responsive.
What we've been waiting for....
Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4067&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4067&tid=15)
Changelog
1.This is the first version. ::) :-//
VERY IMPORTANT
Perform Self Cal after updating.
What we've been waiting for....
Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb
Changelog
1.This is the first version. ::) :-//
What we've been waiting for....
Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb
Changelog
1.This is the first version. ::) :-//
mmm, my unit is already on 7.6.1.12 from the box.... Maybe it will update the FPGA bitstram? Is there any indication of the FPGA version in the update?
Mine FPGA has version is: 2017-11-07
:-[What we've been waiting for....
Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4067&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4067&tid=15)
Changelog
1.This is the first version. ::) :-//
VERY IMPORTANT
Perform Self Cal after updating.
I'm bit surprised.
I do not remember if Siglent have done this any time previously - publishing first launch time FW version as update.
Or is this "Happy New year" present for.... due to chinese new year soon.
Perhaps - or is it just only dreaming - there was SDG2042X, SSA3021X, SDG1032X... is this next "wow"...
Least now some peoples have file what can "study"...
:-/O
:-[What we've been waiting for....
Firmware Version: v7.6.1.12
8 Mb
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4067&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4067&tid=15)
Changelog
1.This is the first version. ::) :-//
VERY IMPORTANT
Perform Self Cal after updating.
I'm bit surprised.
I do not remember if Siglent have done this any time previously - publishing first launch time FW version as update.
Or is this "Happy New year" present for.... due to chinese new year soon.
Perhaps - or is it just only dreaming - there was SDG2042X, SSA3021X, SDG1032X... is this next "wow"...
Least now some peoples have file what can "study"...
:-/O
Yes, it's the same version Siglent sent me pre-release. :palm:
Not the first time they've put the wrong version online................
We'll find out what's going on tomorrow !
My SDS1104X-E out of the box (purchased Jan 2018) was:
Software Version: 7.6.1.12R1
FPGA Version: 2017-12-18
Hardware Version: 00-03
Not sure what the R1 signifies?
No false alarm this time. :)Perhaps it is also good to add this positive "disclaimer":
Version: v7.6.1.20
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4071&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4071&tid=15)
6.5 Mb
Changelog
1.Add MSO/Logic functionality
2.Added automatic vertical scale (volts/div) in Bode Plot mode
3.Added USB WiFi support.
4.Optimized the WiFi GUI
5.Automatic Roll mode selection will be disabled if manually disabled once.
6.Renamed Runt-Trigger in German
7.Fixed a bug in the I2C triggering system of 7 bit Address& Data
8.Improved Auto Setup function with 1K compensation output
9.Improved waveform update when using sequence mode on long timebases
10.Optimize self-calibration for Channels
Perhaps it is also good to add this positive "disclaimer":
11. Possibly more or less improvements and fixes that are not listed.
2.Added automatic vertical scale (volts/div) in Bode Plot mode
9.Improved waveform update when using sequence mode on long timebases
I've had the same problem on channel 1 and 4.
I downgraded the firmware to 7.6.1.12 and problem went away, but returned when I upgraded again. Though a second self calibration after the upgrade made it work correctly. I haven't tried it today to see if the problem has returned.
After the new firmware was decompressed and the scope restarted, it took a little while until the familiar user interface appeared and the correct firmware version was displayed on the Utility Status screen. I performed a self-calibration immediately after that, but when it was finished, nothing seemed to work as expected. The SDS1104X-E would not even stably trigger on a plane sine wave. Only after another restart, the scope worked normally again.
From this experience, it appears that the scope needs another restart after the firmware has finally been installed. If so, this should be clearly stated in the update instructions.
I have updated the firmware last weekend and did an extensive regression test for all the issues I had ever reported to Siglent since the first beta release. There were no such issues but I had some initial problems too.This I can confirm similar behavior in my early beta unit. I have no other units in stock currently to check and new units due in a week or so are most likely to have the new 7.6.1.20 firmware.
This is an excerpt of what I wrote to Siglent with regard to the new 7.6.1.20 firmware:QuoteAfter the new firmware was decompressed and the scope restarted, it took a little while until the familiar user interface appeared and the correct firmware version was displayed on the Utility Status screen. I performed a self-calibration immediately after that, but when it was finished, nothing seemed to work as expected. The SDS1104X-E would not even stably trigger on a plane sine wave. Only after another restart, the scope worked normally again.
From this experience, it appears that the scope needs another restart after the firmware has finally been installed. If so, this should be clearly stated in the update instructions.
So maybe this is the same issue and can be cured either by performing another self-cal or a simple restart. If anyone who has not yet updated reads this and encounters issues like described in the previous postings after the update, I would be grateful if they would try just another restart and report back if that cures the problem.
I've done another self cal and all seems to work fine until a reboot. after that i have the same problem on ch.1 and 4.Please perform a Factory Default (NOT user set Default) and report result.
how can i do that?Default button, front panel.
YES..Please one more check.
same issue after a reset to default.
the problem disappear after a self cal but comes back after reboot.
i'l check also with the previous firmwareWhy ?
because with the previous firmware this issue was not there.OK, yes.
if the issue disappears with the previous firmware this could confirm that the problem is in the new firmware. Only in this forum page we are in 3 with this issue and it's strange that all 3 are defective units.
because with the previous firmware this issue was not there.
if the issue disappears with the previous firmware this could confirm that the problem is in the new firmware. Only in this forum page we are in 3 with this issue and it's strange that all 3 are defective units.
Somehow I thought that 1204X-E has 2 totally independent ADCs. But if one uses 3 channels (1,2,3) then the channel 3 will also use 500 GSa/s and 7 Mpts max although only one channel is used.
It was a nice surprise that it is possible to use zoom for quick data examination of the decoded signal.a decoder that don't allow it is a shitty decoder.
Hello,
Does anybody know what "Power On Line" option means? It is located on the page 4 in the menu "Utility". Documentation says nothing about it.
Hi,Oh but it does !
Somehow I thought that 1204X-E has 2 totally independent ADCs.
But if one uses 3 channels (1,2,3) then the channel 3 will also use 500 GSa/s and 7 Mpts max although only one channel is used.Yes, this is normal behavior in a DSO with 2 ADC's.
SPI decoding works in the latest firmware (.20) fine. It was a nice surprise that it is possible to use zoom for quick data examination of the decoded signal..............Increasing the Transparency setting in the Display sub menu will result in not hiding traces under the Decode list. ;)
Hi,
Somehow I thought that 1204X-E has 2 totally independent ADCs. But if one uses 3 channels (1,2,3) then the channel 3 will also use 500 GSa/s and 7 Mpts max although only one channel is used.
I think it would be rather confusing to have two different sampling rates on screen at the same time. After all you have a single time base for the four channels. So, no matter how much work the second converter is actually doing, it makes sense to use the same sample rate for all the signals on screen.Hi,Oh but it does !
Somehow I thought that 1204X-E has 2 totally independent ADCs.
See #1 post in this thread.
Now the signal is dropping out at 1V and 100mV settings on .20 firmware, so permanently downgrading to .12 to see how stable it is.
The result speaks for itself.They do.
I cannot believe that the included probes PP215 200MHz are what the label says due to their poor performance. I have a very old probe (around 27 years old, all labels are long gone due to extensive usage, I used it when I was an E.E.), I also have a couple of P6100 100MHz probes I bought at AliExpress for a different oscope. Today I was probing some signals on 8 bit MCU using the standard probes and did not like the signal shape. So, I decided to compare all those probes and that is what I got (I was mostly paying attention to the rise/fall times)
All probes have been properly calibrated and used in 1:1 mode.
TK, tautech & Performa01 in particular (I really appreciate your detailed explanation but I do hope you copied/pasted the part of/all the text instead of typing it) thanks for answering. But I am still believe that enclosed probes (PP215) are poor performers comparing to my other probes (even one having lower bandwidth) in this test. I repeated it again this time using all (properly calibrated) probes in 1:10 mode.
The previous result (1:1):
a) 27 year old probe - 20 ns - yellow trace;
b) PP6100 100MHz Chinese probe - 26 ns - blue trace;
c) PP215 200Mhz - 33 ns - green trace;
The second test (1:10):
a) 27 year old probe - 10 ns;
b) PP6100 100MHz Chinese probe - 10 ns;
c) PP215 200Mhz - 22 ns;
The result still speaks for itself and PP215 will be the last probe I choose from those 3 probes. And no, I did not say that PP215 unusable, but I am saying that in this particular test PP6100 100MHz probe outperformed it.
c) PP215 200Mhz - 22 ns;
The second test (1:10):
a) 27 year old probe - 10 ns;
b) PP6100 100MHz Chinese probe - 10 ns;
c) PP215 200Mhz - 22 ns;
The result still speaks for itself and PP215 will be the last probe I choose from those 3 probes. And no, I did not say that PP215 unusable, but I am saying that in this particular test PP6100 100MHz probe outperformed it.
Just wanted to add a couple of things to Performa01's review of web server, the page 156, SDS1104X-E Review 07.pdf
This is very basic piece of software, indeed. Something is definitely wrong when it comes to using 1:10 probes.
Can you show exactly your test setup (enough good picture) and with exatly with this setup, and then also exatly with this setup image from scope screen and explained all settings.
Do you have any reliable signal source what have known pulse rise time and this source impedance, example some known function generator)
Just to be sure, I did a quick test right now to verify the performance of the PP215. Signal source for all following tests is a pulse generator with precisely 1ns rise time, repetition rate 1kHz, pulse width 50ns, amplitude 600mVpp, with a 50ohm through termination directly fitted to its output. Probe is connected via its BNC adapter accessory, ground lead is disconnected of course.Performa01 thanks for the very extensive and detailed test, I think it's much more trustworthy than mine.
Performa01, thank you for details with pictures, but one is missing SP2030A_x10_SDS1202X-E_1ns_Risetime_T.png :popcorn:
Performa01, thank you for details with pictures, but one is missing SP2030A_x10_SDS1202X-E_1ns_Risetime_T.png :popcorn:
I don't have a calibrated signal generator with knows rise/fall time, I just used a 16 MHz MCU, the output pin has a 1k pull-up resistor.
They could have a lower input capacitance, but this could not explain the huge difference. Even the Keysight probe with only 11pF input capacitance and assuming the PP215 actually had 20pF (which I really doubt, 16pF is much more likely) could not turn 22ns into 10ns.Little side note:
OpenCollector type output with 1k pullup. This explain more than enough this result with P215.Exactly :)
1kOhm and if think roughly around 100pF 1:1 probe setting. It acts like single RC LP filter.
They could have a lower input capacitance, but this could not explain the huge difference. Even the Keysight probe with only 11pF input capacitance and assuming the PP215 actually had 20pF (which I really doubt, 16pF is much more likely) could not turn 22ns into 10ns.Little side note:
PP215 10:1 input capacitance is listed on the probe brochure and in Siglent websites as 13 or 14 pF......not 16pF
It is !They could have a lower input capacitance, but this could not explain the huge difference. Even the Keysight probe with only 11pF input capacitance and assuming the PP215 actually had 20pF (which I really doubt, 16pF is much more likely) could not turn 22ns into 10ns.Little side note:
PP215 10:1 input capacitance is listed on the probe brochure and in Siglent websites as 13 or 14 pF......not 16pF
Well, then that's Siglent's fault. :-DD
But you are right: The little card that comes in the probe bag lists the input capacitance as 14pFI've got some for PP215 that list it as 13 pF, who to believe ? ::)
Believe the LCR meter used to measure what the probes actually are.At what frequency ? ;)
We need remember these probes are supplied by a third party and Siglent staff have made error when copying specs onto their webpage. The card in the probe pouch should always be the final and absolute reference in all cases as it comes from the probe manufacturer. I highly value the card and have them for any and all new probes I have ever bought !
QuoteBut you are right: The little card that comes in the probe bag lists the input capacitance as 14pFI've got some for PP215 that list it as 13 pF, who to believe ? ::)
Believe the LCR meter used to measure what the probes actually are.At what frequency ? ;)
Pp215 probe card received today?
Input capacitance 1x85pf-120pf / 10x 18.5pf-22.5 ?
It’s what my card tells me? ???
Pp215 probe card received today?
Input capacitance 1x85pf-120pf / 10x 18.5pf-22.5 ?
It’s what my card tells me? ???
That would be the specification for PP510 - according to the Probe Datasheet V1.5, which in turn doesn't always comply with the probe cards. :-//
Because otherwise we have 1k source resistance for the rising edge. You could easily prove that by looking at the falling edge – if this is much faster, than it is actually an open drain output.
The card is for a pp215, and came with the sds1202x-e , today, that is what’s printed on the card for my pp215?Very interesting, thanks for your reply.
Performa01 & tautech I don't know what kind of PP215 you have/use but this is what comes with 1204X-E:PP215 is also supplied as the standard probe for 200 MHz SDS1202X-E.
Performa01 & tautech I don't know what kind of PP215 you have/use but this is what comes with 1204X-E:
Interesting assumption but the screenshots I attached for every probe clearly show that rise and fall times are the same.
See attachments for the PP215 (sorry for the poor image quality).
I guess we can only wait and see what tautech finds out. Maybe Siglent could test a sample of their currently shipped PP215 probes and verify their performance.Yes, maybe this what they'll do.
Is it missing row 11 as well on picture #2?
There has never been provision for USB 'safe removal' in Siglent equipment. Instead a saving bar graph indicator lets you see progress of the Save. A USB stick with a read/write LED can be useful to let you see the drive is not working.
I would like to report on the recently found problems/bugs:
2) I also noticed that sometimes the last saved screenshot is not saved on the USB drive. it might be a result of some caching and I am not sure how to handle properly safe removal of USB drive since looks like 1204X-E does not provide any options for that.
3) And finally: looks like Siglent does not provide a way to inspect data payload longer than 0x15 bytes. The max number of bytes displayed in the single row of the table is 0x10 and there is no horizontal scrolling. The max number of decoded bytes shown at the bottom of the screen about ox16 without a possibility to properly scroll it. Before someone suggests to use horizontal position/scale knob he has to try it first since it does not work. That, seemingly minor thing, upsets me the most since it might be a design flaw and therefore cannot be easily fixed without major changes.
I would appreciate if one of Siglent distributors reported these bugs to Siglent.Noted, thanks.
Nice demo tautech, thanks.You're welcome and it's been on my mind to do it for some time.
Are visual differences between each curve possible in color too, or in trace light intensity only?Trace colors are the same as the channel colors but you can only select from three as one is reserved for the reference signal input. There is no restriction on the channel you select for ref or DUT output (Bode plot input).
Curious how much more cable mess are added to desktop measurement procedure by deciding
to external (USB connected) SAG1021 instead to build in one?
Personally prefer build-in one or standalone AWG. One more reason to invest in SDG1062X (or SDG1032X) before SAG1021.Understood, but at least buyers can have a # of options depending on their needs.
Hi,Now that the factory is back at work after Chinese new year hols and after checking they were aware of issues with v7.6.1.20, they've replied that they're trying to get a replacement firmware version out this later week.
I've updated my SDS1104X-E with the new firmware but now I notice something strange on channel 4.
I can't see any signal with 50V/div, 5V/div, 1V/div, 200 mv/div (probe set to x10, with x1 the values are 5V, 500mV, 100mV, 20mV). To be more precise I can see the signal only for an instant after changing the V/div scale and then it disappears.
I never noticed this with the previous fimware so I think that is a firmware problem.
can someone check this? or can I try something to figure out what is going on?
Thanks
I found a bug related to displaying long IC2 decoded packets, I am running the latest X.20 firmware.If they can fit it in they'll try and address this too but their immediate focus is to fix the problem in v7.6.1.20
Look at the first column in the table, we cannot see the row 9:
.............
Now that the factory is back at work after Chinese new year hols and after checking they were aware of issues with v7.6.1.20, they've replied that they're trying to get a replacement firmware version out this later week.
Actually I might go back and do the same one again, this time with a plot of the first stage of the pass band.2 passive filter stages Bode plot example.
Little, in fact only the mains supply cable for a standalone AWG and that'll be behind a unit anyway.
You still need to tether it by USB when in Bode plot mode for the scope to take charge of it. But that can be done behind both units as 1004X-E's have a rear USB-A just for this purpose. Standalone's have USB-B on the rear but both these scopes and SDG's come supplied each with a A-B USB cable.
So effectively if using a Siglent standalone and all rear cabling there is one less cable on the bench than with SAG1021.
I've got the 1104 and the 1032 and was experimenting with the Bode mode. In the manual, it states that the 1104 can connect to the AWG via LAN as well, however, I tried it (briefly) and I couldn't get it to work. Are you saying that only the USB connection will work?
I've got the 1104 and the 1032 and was experimenting with the Bode mode. In the manual, it states that the 1104 can connect to the AWG via LAN as well, however, I tried it (briefly) and I couldn't get it to work. Are you saying that only the USB connection will work?
I can confirm that AWG control over LAN does not work with the current 7.6.1.20 firmware. Even worse, the AWG gets locked up and it takes quite some time until the scope finally reports that it failed to connect to the AWG.
I've already notified the responsible persons at Siglent.
EDIT: SDG device control over USB works.
After nice bode plot examples by @Tautech
About aliasing and scope BW.
Oh dear.....all this Bode plot connectivity worked fine even in beta test units. :-//
I can confirm that AWG control over LAN does not work with the current 7.6.1.20 firmware.
I've already notified the responsible persons at Siglent.
EDIT: SDG device control over USB works.
Hi,
I've updated my SDS1104X-E with the new firmware but now I notice something strange on channel 4.
I can't see any signal with 50V/div, 5V/div, 1V/div, 200 mv/div (probe set to x10, with x1 the values are 5V, 500mV, 100mV, 20mV). To be more precise I can see the signal only for an instant after changing the V/div scale and then it disappears.
I never noticed this with the previous fimware so I think that is a firmware problem.
can someone check this? or can I try something to figure out what is going on?
Thanks
Oh dear.....all this Bode plot connectivity worked fine even in beta test units. :-//
I can confirm that AWG control over LAN does not work with the current 7.6.1.20 firmware.
I've already notified the responsible persons at Siglent.
EDIT: SDG device control over USB works.
I haven't checked lately but when I beta tested 1104X-E I had some little problems too until I got my head around proper LAN configuration. There were no English manuals back then and if you didn't do this sort of stuff everyday (I don't) it was a little battle so I'll check the latest manual when I have a mo to see if the connectivity instructions need any improvements.Oh dear.....all this Bode plot connectivity worked fine even in beta test units. :-//
I can confirm that AWG control over LAN does not work with the current 7.6.1.20 firmware.
I've already notified the responsible persons at Siglent.
EDIT: SDG device control over USB works.
Ok, so I tried the USB connection from 1104->1032 and it works. Then, for giggles, I went back and re-configured for LAN and it worked! I then unplugged the USB cable just to make sure and it still works. I don't know if I fat-fingered something the first time or what? :-//
There has never been provision for USB 'safe removal' in Siglent equipment. Instead a saving bar graph indicator lets you see progress of the Save. A USB stick with a read/write LED can be useful to let you see the drive is not working.
2) I also noticed that sometimes the last saved screenshot is not saved on the USB drive. it might be a result of some caching and I am not sure how to handle properly safe removal of USB drive since looks like 1204X-E does not provide any options for that.
There certainly is but with a quick look through the documentation I can't find it. >:(There has never been provision for USB 'safe removal' in Siglent equipment. Instead a saving bar graph indicator lets you see progress of the Save. A USB stick with a read/write LED can be useful to let you see the drive is not working.
2) I also noticed that sometimes the last saved screenshot is not saved on the USB drive. it might be a result of some caching and I am not sure how to handle properly safe removal of USB drive since looks like 1204X-E does not provide any options for that.
When the file is saved on the USB drive, there is a message on the 1204X-E screen saying that the file has been saved. And if in 5 minutes after the message has been shown the flash drive is removed and the file mentioned in the message is not saved on the drive then I don't see how a a read/write LED can change it.
I wonder what kind of USB drives are supported by 1204X-E (I cannot find any info in the documentation). I have 4 different USB drivers ranging from cheap 4GB USB2.0 to expensive Samsung T1 USB 3.0 250GB and the only USB flash drive that works is the old and really slow 4GB USB 2.0. In all other cases after connecting a new USB flash drive nothing really happens (i.e. there is no message saying that the drive was connected) , but after 4-7 seconds there is a message on the screen saying - " USB flash drive removed." - at this moment the USB flash is still connected to 1204X-E but obviously not recognized.
May be there is some file system type/ drive size / power consumption limitations that we should be aware of ?
There has never been provision for USB 'safe removal' in Siglent equipment. Instead a saving bar graph indicator lets you see progress of the Save. A USB stick with a read/write LED can be useful to let you see the drive is not working.
2) I also noticed that sometimes the last saved screenshot is not saved on the USB drive. it might be a result of some caching and I am not sure how to handle properly safe removal of USB drive since looks like 1204X-E does not provide any options for that.
When the file is saved on the USB drive, there is a message on the 1204X-E screen saying that the file has been saved. And if in 5 minutes after the message has been shown the flash drive is removed and the file mentioned in the message is not saved on the drive then I don't see how a a read/write LED can change it.
I wonder what kind of USB drives are supported by 1204X-E (I cannot find any info in the documentation). I have 4 different USB drivers ranging from cheap 4GB USB2.0 to expensive Samsung T1 USB 3.0 250GB and the only USB flash drive that works is the old and really slow 4GB USB 2.0. In all other cases after connecting a new USB flash drive nothing really happens (i.e. there is no message saying that the drive was connected) , but after 4-7 seconds there is a message on the screen saying - " USB flash drive removed." - at this moment the USB flash is still connected to 1204X-E but obviously not recognized.
May be there is some file system type/ drive size / power consumption limitations that we should be aware of ?
The guys at the factory have a fix for v7.6.1.20.Hi,Now that the factory is back at work after Chinese new year hols and after checking they were aware of issues with v7.6.1.20, they've replied that they're trying to get a replacement firmware version out this later week.
I've updated my SDS1104X-E with the new firmware but now I notice something strange on channel 4.
I can't see any signal with 50V/div, 5V/div, 1V/div, 200 mv/div (probe set to x10, with x1 the values are 5V, 500mV, 100mV, 20mV). To be more precise I can see the signal only for an instant after changing the V/div scale and then it disappears.
I never noticed this with the previous fimware so I think that is a firmware problem.
can someone check this? or can I try something to figure out what is going on?
ThanksI found a bug related to displaying long IC2 decoded packets, I am running the latest X.20 firmware.If they can fit it in they'll try and address this too but their immediate focus is to fix the problem in v7.6.1.20
Look at the first column in the table, we cannot see the row 9:
.............
Thanks guys.
The guys at the factory have a fix for v7.6.1.20.Hi,Now that the factory is back at work after Chinese new year hols and after checking they were aware of issues with v7.6.1.20, they've replied that they're trying to get a replacement firmware version out this later week.
I've updated my SDS1104X-E with the new firmware but now I notice something strange on channel 4.
I can't see any signal with 50V/div, 5V/div, 1V/div, 200 mv/div (probe set to x10, with x1 the values are 5V, 500mV, 100mV, 20mV). To be more precise I can see the signal only for an instant after changing the V/div scale and then it disappears.
I never noticed this with the previous fimware so I think that is a firmware problem.
can someone check this? or can I try something to figure out what is going on?
ThanksI found a bug related to displaying long IC2 decoded packets, I am running the latest X.20 firmware.If they can fit it in they'll try and address this too but their immediate focus is to fix the problem in v7.6.1.20
Look at the first column in the table, we cannot see the row 9:
.............
Thanks guys.
New version.
Version: v7.6.1.20R1
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4071&tid=15 (http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=4071&tid=15)
Changelog
1.Fixed a bug in 6.1.20 which maybe cause signal disappear after self-calibration for Channels?
2.Supported all of Siglent’s SDG instruments in Bode Plot
3.Add MSO/Logic functionality
4. Added automatic vertical scale (volts/div) in Bode Plot mode
5.Added USB WiFi support.
6.Optimized the WiFi GUI
7.Automatic Roll mode selection will be disabled if manually disabled once.
8.Renamed Runt-Trigger in German
9.Fixed a bug in the I2C triggering system of 7 bit Address& Data
10.Improved Auto Setup function with 1K compensation output
11.Improved waveform update when using sequence mode on long timebases
12.Optimize self-calibration for Channels
That's great! I'll also give v7.6.1.20R1 a spin tonight! Though, from the changelog doc included with the firmware, it seems only the top two items are in .20R1 and the rest was already in .20...
"Probes PP215".
I checked through the jpg "Probe Characteristics" that probe "PP215" has "200MHz" of "Bandwidth".
Please note that it is appropriate for the "Bandwidth" 100HMHz "SDS1104X-E" model, as it "exceeds the specifications" of this model ...
The model "SDS1204X-E" is for "200MHz" of "Bandwidth", and certainly needs a "probe" that "exceeds this specification".
Question: In the case of SDS1204X-E, should Siglent not supply with a "Probe" of at least "300MHz"?
The PP510 and PP215 probes are perfectly fine for the scopes they ship with. Higher bandwidth specification does not automatically mean better performance.
The table below shows the bandwidth for -1, -3 and -6dB as well as the transition times for various probes on a 200MHz SDS1202X-E. The real important parameters are the -1dB bandwidth and the transition times. The only probe that actually performs a little bit better than the PP215 overall would be the Pico Tech TA131.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=399766)
Probe Comparison 3
See the comparison here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665)
If you buy the USB based AWG box (SDG1021) do you also need to pay seperately for a software licence to unlock it's capabilities on the scope?Yes but only for its general AWG capabilities, not for Bode plot usage. List is $109 for the SDS1000X-E-FG license option.
Can it do anything other than the bode plot without that software? or is it just a brick?The SW license enables permanent usage for ordinary AWG usage but you should be able to use it for a limited # of times until the trial times expire. I think it's 30 uses.......sorry no new stock until next week to check for you.
Anyone have an SDS1x04X-E on order, with a projected delivery date?Ordered and received this email reply from Saelig below.
........
FYI - there's nothing on Saelig's web site indicating the scope is out of stock. They wait until you "buy" before telling you. :-- ....a definite opportunity for improvement in customer service.
Thanks,
sbrom
It looks like in Canada for $150 (CDN) more I can get a SDG-2042X -- it is way more than twice the instrument -- almost 10x the sample rate, 2x the bandwidth, 2 channels, & way more features.Each to their own.
Charging extra for the software seems sleazy to me -- if you sell me the hardware, it should work.
As there have been complaints regarding USB, I just did a quick test with several USB sticks – all of them fairly old, some even right from the stone age. I have often seen the advice for various instruments from various manufacturers to use flash drives up to 4GB with FAT file system only, so I was curious how the Siglent SDS1104X-E would deal with the bigger ones. I would have liked to try even higher than 32GB, but I can’t find anything bigger/better here in my lab, so someone else would have to chime in for that.
I also tested the remaining ones by storing a screenshot on each of them. To my surprise even the oddball SanDisk cruzer contour worked without problems just like the others.
For the screenshot tests I removed the sticks immediately after the “saved to file …” message of the scope had disappeared. No loss of data, no problems. There was no noticeable speed difference, but then again, what to expect when a screenshot just takes a fraction of a second anyway?
Following developments as always, of the USB drives I use with scopes, all are USB 2.0, none are larger than 16GB and all are FAT32 formatted. I've some beaten up old 512MB ones too and none give problems.As there have been complaints regarding USB, I just did a quick test with several USB sticks – all of them fairly old, some even right from the stone age. I have often seen the advice for various instruments from various manufacturers to use flash drives up to 4GB with FAT file system only, so I was curious how the Siglent SDS1104X-E would deal with the bigger ones. I would have liked to try even higher than 32GB, but I can’t find anything bigger/better here in my lab, so someone else would have to chime in for that.
Indeed there was a complaint regarding USB. In my case only really the old SanDisk Cruzer Edge (4GB) worked, more modern Kingston Data Travel 2.0 64 GB and SanDisk Extreme 64GB 3.0 did not work. The reason why they did not work is that they were formatted as NTFS and exFAT (tautech mentioned that 8) in one of his replies). After reformatting one of those drives and using FAT32 (I ended up with 32GB single partition although it was a 64GB drive, it seems to be Windows imposed limitation) it was recognized by SDS1204X-E.
A side note about reformatting high performance USB 3.0 flash drives: some of them are being formatted with proper partition alignment during manufacturing. After the user mindlessly reformats such a flash drive its performance can and most likely degrade.
Ok, so I tried the USB connection from 1104->1032 and it works. Then, for giggles, I went back and re-configured for LAN and it worked! I then unplugged the USB cable just to make sure and it still works. I don't know if I fat-fingered something the first time or what? :-//
Finally some detail for the SLA1016 LA HW option is available.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/sla1016/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/sla1016/)
Hello,I reported on those that come with SDS2kX models here:
tautech & Performa01, assuming that we are talking about stock SLA1016 LA with the accessories to be used with SDS1204X-E and such. Could you please show us some closeup pictures of the logic analyzer probes?
I wonder, since 4ch models can sample twice as fast as 2ch versions (2Gs/s vs 1Gs/s), do they have faster zinq processor?No Bob they can't.
I reported on those that come with SDS2kX models here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/msg984510/#msg984510 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/msg984510/#msg984510)
As mentioned those are fine enough to fit SOIC but not smaller. These new ones don't seem that fine from the pics but I'll know for sure on Monday when my new stock arrives.
The ones I most prefer are old style Tek grabbers like these in this listing:Those (EZ-Hook i.e. Agilent style) SDS2kX probes are beautiful ones! I have here 4 different types of probes and these ones are my favorite (got them from DigiKey, wanted to get them in different colors to distinguish between different LA channels since I never understood why many LA comes with the same color probes). I also have some probes looking similar to the black ones shown on your picture, that would be (and is) my last choice. Ok, let's wait till your new stock arrives.
I reported on those that come with SDS2kX models here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/msg984510/#msg984510 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/msg984510/#msg984510)
As mentioned those are fine enough to fit SOIC but not smaller. These new ones don't seem that fine from the pics but I'll know for sure on Monday when my new stock arrives.
Finally some detail for the SLA1016 LA HW option is available.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/sla1016/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/sla1016/)
The ones I most prefer are old style Tek grabbers like these in this listing:
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tektronix-Adapter-Mini-Test-Grabber-40V/272670551628?hash=item3f7c6e6e4c:g:YsEAAOSw42dZF6bp (https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tektronix-Adapter-Mini-Test-Grabber-40V/272670551628?hash=item3f7c6e6e4c:g:YsEAAOSw42dZF6bp)
They are just so easy to use.
Here's a better pic of just one:The ones I most prefer are old style Tek grabbers like these in this listing:
https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tektronix-Adapter-Mini-Test-Grabber-40V/272670551628?hash=item3f7c6e6e4c:g:YsEAAOSw42dZF6bp (https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tektronix-Adapter-Mini-Test-Grabber-40V/272670551628?hash=item3f7c6e6e4c:g:YsEAAOSw42dZF6bp)
They are just so easy to use.
To each his own 8)
May be the original Tektronix grabbers are really so much better, I don't know since I have a replica but this is how it works for me:
What do yours measure on the finest/thinest part of the shank ?
The Teks are 1.25mm.
What is the sample rate of SLA1016?Going by the datasheet: Digital Channels: Max. Sampling Rate 1 GSa/s
What is the sample rate of SLA1016?Going by the datasheet: Digital Channels: Max. Sampling Rate 1 GSa/s
How that's managed is a good question as there' 2x 1Gsa/s ADC's on board Siglent may have assigned 8 LA channels to each ADC. That would seem logical considering the SDS1004X-E architecture.
On the other hand sampling might be handled in the SLA1016 LA pod.
Teardown Performa01 ?
Hello,Your observation is accurate but it is NOT a bug. Instead Siglent chose not to display the trigger level when using AC input coupling as it's always @ 50% when AC coupled.
I think I found a bug in the newest firmware (1204X-E). When the trigger is set to AC coupling, the change of the trigger level does not show on the screen the horizontal line reflecting the actual trigger level (but it works fine for 3 other types such as DC etc. Can someone verify that and confirm my observation?
Thanks.
Your observation is accurate but it is NOT a bug. Instead Siglent chose not to display the trigger level when using AC input coupling as it's always @ 50% when AC coupled.
Apart from that I have an open change request for adjusting the auto set trigger level to the center of the waveform (Vmax + Vmin) / 2 - Vmean instead of setting it to zero. This way the AC auto trigger would also work for narrow pulses.
But then again, I prefer normal trigger mode in most situations, because then I can be absolutely sure that every waveform I see on the screen comes from a true trigger event, no matter what weird repetition rate it might have. This also means that a singular event stays on the screen forever in normal mode, whereas it would get cleared after a short time in auto mode.
After finally spending some time using this scope, I'd like to point out some minor bugs/annoyances I've found. Maybe someone can forward this suggestions to Siglent :-+Firmware version please ?
1. In the SPI decoder after disabling the MISO or MOSI signal decoding, the label and the signal trace are still visible near the active one (but obviously without events)
2. It is not possible to move the decoding trace, it's fixed at the bottom of the screen
3. When using the decoders and zooming out too much, the decoded bytes are substituted with red markings because there is not enough space to display the values. Maybe using a vertical layout for the bytes in hex format (like R&S does) will give us another couple of zoom levels with readable decoding
4. In the measure menu there are non options to count impulses/events (I miss my 'Pluses' counter :-DD )
5. It will be great to have the option to move the cursors data mini window in another place
6. The display is too recessed into the case and having the scope placed on the bench and being tall I've always to bow to read the first row with the sampling data and the trigger frequency. But nothing that a couple of printed rises can't fix
I've to say that overall I'm really impressed by the quality and snappiness of this machine for the price.
Firmware version please ?Updated to the latest: 7.6.1.20R1
Of course it also need user learn how to use it because and of course first it may feel "why this and why that"
After finally spending some time using this scope, I'd like to point out some minor bugs/annoyances I've found. Maybe someone can forward this suggestions to Siglent :-+
1. In the SPI decoder after disabling the MISO or MOSI signal decoding, the label and the signal trace are still visible near the active one (but obviously without events)
2. It is not possible to move the decoding trace, it's fixed at the bottom of the screen
3. When using the decoders and zooming out too much, the decoded bytes are substituted with red markings because there is not enough space to display the values. Maybe using a vertical layout for the bytes in hex format (like R&S does) will give us another couple of zoom levels with readable decoding
4. In the measure menu there are non options to count impulses/events (I miss my 'Pluses' counter )
5. It will be great to have the option to move the cursors data mini window in another place
6. The display is too recessed into the case and having the scope placed on the bench and being tall I've always to bow to read the first row with the sampling data and the trigger frequency. But nothing that a couple of printed rises can't fix
Gabri74
Mosi, Miso, is this in Decode1 or 2 mode ?
I think it's this way by design and BTW my first reply was about something different.Gabri74
Mosi, Miso, is this in Decode1 or 2 mode ?
Decode 1. Tested Decode 2 and is the same.
Of course I will point Siglent R&D to your posting. You’ve already got some replies from experienced users and I want to add my comments to that:
I see your point, but the UI is generally not based on freely movable windows as in modern mid-range DSOs. So the layout is fixed and nothing can be re-positioned. It would require a major re-design and I’m not sure if Siglent is willing to do that. It means so much more than just adding the functionality. You need a user interface for customizing the user interface, including additional menu items, help texts and error messages, which need to be in a bunch of different languages. And then there’s always the concern that long time users already familiar with the current UI might be confused if something behaves very differently all of a sudden, just because they pushed the wrong button at the wrong time by accident.
Maybe an entry level scope is not the best product to start experimenting with a highly flexible new UI concept…
Here's a thought;Of course I will point Siglent R&D to your posting. You’ve already got some replies from experienced users and I want to add my comments to that:
Thanks a lotQuoteI see your point, but the UI is generally not based on freely movable windows as in modern mid-range DSOs. So the layout is fixed and nothing can be re-positioned. It would require a major re-design and I’m not sure if Siglent is willing to do that. It means so much more than just adding the functionality. You need a user interface for customizing the user interface, including additional menu items, help texts and error messages, which need to be in a bunch of different languages. And then there’s always the concern that long time users already familiar with the current UI might be confused if something behaves very differently all of a sudden, just because they pushed the wrong button at the wrong time by accident.
Maybe an entry level scope is not the best product to start experimenting with a highly flexible new UI concept…
I agree on everything but I can't help thinking that having the possibility to move the decoded traces independently (like it's possible with math channels) and place them near the corresponding waveform could improve the readability. But of course this is a matter of personal preference and is really a minor problem. Overall I really like these decoders and I find the options and configurability do be very good (but I never owned an expensive scope... so my experience is limited)
Of course it also need user learn how to use it because and of course first it may feel "why this and why that"
Not my fault this time :) and thanks to your screenshot showing the Event Num label which I've never seen I understood the problem:
when the decoding option is on, the Event Num label is hidden behind the decoded traces (see screen1)!
That's why I missed it in the first time and went with that complicate procedure :-DD
When hiding the menu bottom bar (as suggested by Tautech) the Event Num label is visible again (see screen2)
oups...
Now I understand, never seen this due to fact I do not have MSO option here for this model.
oups...
Now I understand, never seen this due to fact I do not have MSO option here for this model.
No, no, no - this has nothing to do with MSO. It is just serial decoding on analog channels ... ;)
... but I haven't seen it either, as I've never used serial decoders together with Event search.
I’ve asked about the most obvious/desirable improvements that resulted from our discussion here. After a brief internal evaluation, Siglent confirmed to support enable/disable for one direction on duplex decoders and remove the disabled decoder line from the screen.
Regarding the other requests, just as I’ve suspected, it’s probably not that simple to even partially change the UI concept that’s currently based on fixed display areas, so this will not be changed.
Siglent mentioned the Event Search function as the current workaround for the missing edge/pulse count. We might still get the automatic measurement though – but not in the near future, as there are some other more urgent tasks pending, like ironing out the remaining flaws in the serial decoders, improving the Bode plot feature and fixing some bugs that I've reported. So yes, I’m to blame (too), for keeping R&D folks at Siglent busy all the time – yet that’s for the benefit of all users serious about T&M out there ;)
Has anyone received a new 1104/1204X-E since Lunar New Year? I still have no shipping update from my reseller, and it's been over a month since the Lantern Festival, which marks the traditional end of New Year festivities in China.Received my 1104 last Friday
Has anyone received a new 1104/1204X-E since Lunar New Year? I still have no shipping update from my reseller, and it's been over a month since the Lantern Festival, which marks the traditional end of New Year festivities in China.I got stock just after the Lantern festival but had to wait some weeks for production lead times.
Has anyone received a new 1104/1204X-E since Lunar New Year? I still have no shipping update from my reseller, and it's been over a month since the Lantern Festival, which marks the traditional end of New Year festivities in China.
Has anyone received a new 1104/1204X-E since Lunar New Year? I still have no shipping update from my reseller, and it's been over a month since the Lantern Festival, which marks the traditional end of New Year festivities in China.
Has anyone received a new 1104/1204X-E since Lunar New Year? I still have no shipping update from my reseller, and it's been over a month since the Lantern Festival, which marks the traditional end of New Year festivities in China.I received from Saelig some days ago. Ordered on February 27.
I hope Siglent will not just truncate the displayed data (that would be the simplest, 1 second fix to display only one line text ) but instead they will choose to properly display relatively long decoded packets.
As a side note : it would be really cool if they could fix the horizontal scrolling of the decoded data as well (sorry if I am asking too much for a 1000 Canadian dollars oscilloscope).
I have a question about 500?V range.
1. When the coupling is set to GND, there is some negative DC offset on most channels.
2. When the coupling is AC or DC, there is also an offset, but it usually changes to positive.
Why does it happen and is there any way to correct it?
Plotting bode plot with a non-Siglent AWG is possible with a protocol translation software.QuoteIf it is to drive a non-Siglent AWG, maybe they can charge for it.Maybe ? :-//
It's very unlikely command protocols will work with other brands.
When doing Bode plots the AWG is swept through many frequencies/second so commands must be correct.
Cool and that's actually fairly close to what I was planning to do. I don't quite understand the fascination with the built in or provided signal generators. It shouldn't be too hard to write a small script that does the same, as long as you have a SCPI scope and signal generator or AWG. You don't even have to depend on the accuracy of the generator, you can just measure the signal before it goes in and after it comes out. Plot to chart and done. If you have a sweep function on the generator it might be even easier.
Plotting bode plot with a non-Siglent AWG is possible with a protocol translation software.
At certain point after getting the SDG1204X-E oscilloscope I wanted to know if it might be possible to use the bode plot function with a non-Siglent waveform generator.
After some researching and fuzzing I wrote a program in Python which acts as a small server. When the oscilloscope connects to it using LAN. It thinks that it communicates with a genuine Siglent AWG. The program extracts the commands sent to the generator, parses them and translates to the command set, that the connected to the PC non-Siglent AWG is able to understand.
The video shows bode plot of an LPF with R=1kOhm and C=0.22μF. On the left you may see my program running on a netbook. For the first try I took the well known JDS6600 generator which is sold on eBay/AliExpress. Later I'll add drivers for two more AWG models.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PvueUHAJ78 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PvueUHAJ78)
I hope to have during the next weeks enough free time to publish the program on GitHub with detailed description on how it works.
Plotting bode plot with a non-Siglent AWG is possible with a protocol translation software.
At certain point after getting the SDG1204X-E oscilloscope I wanted to know if it might be possible to use the bode plot function with a non-Siglent waveform generator.
After some researching and fuzzing I wrote a program in Python which acts as a small server. When the oscilloscope connects to it using LAN. It thinks that it communicates with a genuine Siglent AWG. The program extracts the commands sent to the generator, parses them and translates to the command set, that the connected to the PC non-Siglent AWG is able to understand.
The video shows bode plot of an LPF with R=1kOhm and C=0.22μF. On the left you may see my program running on a netbook. For the first try I took the well known JDS6600 generator which is sold on eBay/AliExpress. Later I'll add drivers for two more AWG models.
That surly will be of interest to the community.Plotting bode plot with a non-Siglent AWG is possible with a protocol translation software.QuoteIf it is to drive a non-Siglent AWG, maybe they can charge for it.Maybe ? :-//
It's very unlikely command protocols will work with other brands.
When doing Bode plots the AWG is swept through many frequencies/second so commands must be correct.
At certain point after getting the SDG1204X-E oscilloscope I wanted to know if it might be possible to use the bode plot function with a non-Siglent waveform generator.
After some researching and fuzzing I wrote a program in Python which acts as a small server. The oscilloscope connects to it using LAN and the program makes it think that it communicates with a genuine Siglent AWG. The program extracts the commands sent by the scope to the generator, parses them and translates to the command set, that the connected to the PC non-Siglent AWG is able to understand.
The video shows bode plot of an LPF with R=1kOhm and C=0.22μF. On the left you may see my program running on a netbook. For the first try I took the well known JDS6600 generator which is sold on eBay/AliExpress. Later I'll add drivers for two more AWG models.
I hope to have during the next weeks enough free time to publish the program on GitHub with detailed description on how it works.Great work and looking forward to your further efforts. :-+
@3:30Please do your homework as this vid by Jason was put online Jan 4th before any post release firmware became available. Many things were changed with rev 20R1.
"oops fat fingers" moment is actually finicky, unpredictable universal knob and bad GUI :)
Some more vids on the SDS1kX-E models, just recently found:
Done by Jason from Siglent America.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgAluROOPqQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgAluROOPqQ)
I have SDS1104X-E with the latest firmware. Scope has good hardware with many features but it could be much better and less frustrating with better software.
There are two issues demonstrated @3:30
1. you can press function key to toggle through menu options but highlighted option does not take effect until x amount of time (sometimes never, IIRC) or you have to depress universal knob to select it.
What are you on about ?Some more vids on the SDS1kX-E models, just recently found:
Done by Jason from Siglent America.
Just looking at how many hoops you have to jump through to put a measurement on screen (time=4:25 in the video). :palm:
Rigols just have a row on buttons down the left side. Press button, done.
Of the few shipments of these I've had there are differences in fan noise.
Edited 1 minute later: oh, I forgot one thing which sooner or later I will have to take care of - very loud fan. My plan in to use some sort of "DC 12V Four Wire Thermostat PWM Fan Speed Controller Module"
(https://alexnld.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/SKU274152-2.jpg)
and a quiet fan to replace the stock one(constant speed, loud one).
IMO, if Siglent really thinks that their software is finished then Rigol will be back on top as soon as they refresh 1000 series hardware.Bob, you haven't been keeping up to date mate !
What are you on about ?
You can't have 38 buttons for each of the measurements on each channel, instead you need use a menu to select the ones you want and then you can toggle them all (selected) ON and OFF with a single button.
You really need do more homework.
Does anyone have a change log for 7.6.1.20 R2? I just got this scope about a week ago and it seems to already have a never version than what is available on Siglent's website.Yes this occasionally happens with new stock and then we know a new firmware version is imminent.
Oh so you want to look deeper into the UI of these DSO's.What are you on about ?
You can't have 38 buttons for each of the measurements on each channel, instead you need use a menu to select the ones you want and then you can toggle them all (selected) ON and OFF with a single button.
You really need do more homework.
You know you're not fooling anybody, right?
On a Rigol you have to press a button to switch between horizontal/vertical measurements, sure, and maybe another button to get less common measurements, but it's way faster/easier then going into a menu, twisting the twisty knob through a list of words then crossing your fingers it doesn't select a different value when you push it.
Plus you get little pictures of the measurements, not just names.
This:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=427762;image)
vs. this:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=427768;image)
??
No contest. Rigol wins hands down.
??
No contest. Rigol wins hands down.
No contest. Rigol wins hands down.Not for me, till Rigol is equipped with FRA (Bode plot) functionality.
Oh so you want to look deeper into the UI of these DSO's.
Shall we examine User definable Default and how that might assist ...
And yes, the universal know is touchy, but again after using the oscilloscope for some time I got used to it and can easily press the knob without disturbing it.
Overall Rigol seems to be better
Siglent's measurement selection 'window' is also obstructing display while selecting options.There's a Transparency setting in the Display menu, have you not found or used it yet ?
Overall Rigol seems to be better at this since you want to make a quick selection and get back to working with a waveform, on the other hand I cannot think of a slower selection method Siglent could use then the current sequential access :)One usually has a preferred set of measurements you use and once selected they all remain as your preferred measurement types and all are returned to the display with a single press of the Measurement button.
Actually it does demand investigation !Oh so you want to look deeper into the UI of these DSO's.
Shall we examine User definable Default and how that might assist ...
All I'm really interested in is how long it takes you to show (eg.) Vpp on screen when it isn't currently being displayed.
I don't think something so basic should need to be 'examined'. That smells of apologetics.
Here's how to do it on a Rigol DS1054Z:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=428485;image)
Simple question: What's the shortest possible equivalent on a Siglent ?
Siglent's measurement selection 'window' is also obstructing display while selecting options.There's a Transparency setting in the Display menu, have you not found or used it yet ?
One usually has a preferred set of measurements you use and once selected they all remain as your preferred measurement types and all are returned to the display with a single press of the Measurement button.
Actually it does demand investigation !
Particularly WRT (...something completely unrelated, snipped)
Or will you continue the same MO in further efforts to have members react so they might also be banned ?
Disgraceful behavior and now moderators are aware of it they're unlikely to be duped again by your actions.
Rigol is trading screen space for faster measurement selection.
Overall Rigol seems to be better
But Rigol is more expensive.
EDIT: looks like Rigol displays 5 items also, but Siglent gives more information such as Std-Dev and Count
...and CountWhat happens if you press the button labelled "Counter"?
EDIT: looks like Rigol displays 5 items also, but Siglent gives more information such as Std-Dev and Count
It toggles an overlay, eg.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=429191;image)
waveform is covered up - can transparency be adjusted?
...so, what happens when you press the Counter button?
The only major bug I've noticed is in the search function.
...
Is anyone able to reproduce the bug? (FW: 7.6.1.20 R1)
@tautech, could you run the same test but with PP215 probe and SDS1104X-E?Some probe data here:
@tautech, can you please perform the same test for SDS1102X?Sorry I don't have the 2ch SDS1102X+ older model any more, recently sold including 16ch MSO option.
Hi, I have a SDS-1104X-E and I'm very happy with it.
My software version is the original 7.6.1.12R1, do you advice to update even if I don't have significant problems with it?
What is the correct procedure? I have to update the OS and the firmware togheter?
SDS1004X_E_6.1.25R1.ADS
File Header Size: 00000070
00000000 - File Checksum: C60EB4BF [00000004-00757F76] (with only the File Header decrypted) CKSM OK
00000004 - File Size: 00757F07 (without 0x70 bytes of the File Header)
0000000C - HW Version: 13501
00000026 - Vendor/Brand: SIGLENT
0000003A - USB Host Controller: ISP1763
****************************************************
Decrypting the 0x2800 and 0x1400 blocks...
Reversing file...
XORing with 0xFF (incrementing pattern)...
XORing with 0xFF from 0x003ABF84 until 0x00757F06
****************************************************
00000000 --- Section Checksum: C379054A
00000004 --- Section Size: 00757ED3 [00000034-00757F06] CKSM OK
00000008 --- Section # 00000007
00000034 --- 00757F06 ***** ZIP file *****
Offset Ver Flag Comp Size Packed Modified CRC32 Name Extra Details
00000034 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [00000056-00000055] www/
00000056 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [00000082-00000081] www/attchment/
00000082 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [000000A8-000000A7] www/css/
000000A8 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [000000D5-000000D4] www/css/device/
000000D5 2.0 0000 0008 00001A0A 0000065D 20-03-2018 13:58:04 DA06DD28 [00000114-00000770] www/css/device/device_control.css
00000771 2.0 0000 0008 00000E6F 00000492 20-03-2018 13:58:04 731108C6 [000007A6-00000C37] www/css/device/main.css
00000C38 2.0 0000 0008 000007DD 0000029B 20-03-2018 13:58:04 C8FCE2D7 [00000C67-00000F01] www/css/login.css
00000F02 2.0 0000 0008 000011D5 00000577 20-03-2018 13:58:04 26D75603 [00000F33-000014A9] www/css/welcome.css
000014AA 2.0 0000 0008 000007C4 00000239 20-03-2018 13:58:04 D3E45378 [000014DC-00001714] www/deviceupdate.php
00001715 2.0 0000 0008 000005F2 0000017D 20-03-2018 13:58:05 7BB9B512 [0000174C-000018C8] www/device_read_write.php
000018C9 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [000018F1-000018F0] www/fonts/
000018F1 2.0 0000 0008 00011497 0001146B 20-03-2018 13:58:04 A3758D75 [00001930-00012D9A] www/fonts/fontawesome-webfont.eot
00012D9B 2.0 0000 0008 00059430 0001A95E 20-03-2018 13:58:04 CFF95578 [00012DDA-0002D737] www/fonts/fontawesome-webfont.svg
0002D738 2.0 0000 0008 00022AF8 0001453A 20-03-2018 13:58:04 AC39751F [0002D777-00041CB0] www/fonts/fontawesome-webfont.ttf
00041CB1 2.0 0000 0008 00014684 0001464C 20-03-2018 13:58:04 C17DCBF4 [00041CF1-0005633C] www/fonts/fontawesome-webfont.woff
0005633D 2.0 0000 0008 00010440 00010431 20-03-2018 13:58:04 B5F6695A [0005637E-000667AE] www/fonts/fontawesome-webfont.woff2
000667AF 2.0 0000 0008 0001AC78 00015EFD 20-03-2018 13:58:04 98F5FCC9 [000667E6-0007C6E2] www/fonts/FontAwesome.otf
0007C6E3 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [0007C709-0007C708] www/img/
0007C709 2.0 0000 0008 00004723 0000112A 20-03-2018 13:58:07 0A7D1CDE [0007C738-0007D861] www/img/about.png
0007D862 2.0 0000 0008 00006682 00002200 20-03-2018 13:58:06 A3952F7A [0007D891-0007FA90] www/img/Home1.png
0007FA91 2.0 0000 0008 000056E1 00001973 20-03-2018 13:58:07 3F022755 [0007FAC0-00081432] www/img/Home2.png
00081433 2.0 0000 0008 000001A9 000001AE 20-03-2018 13:58:06 2B0955C8 [00081465-00081612] www/img/ic_login.png
00081613 2.0 0000 0008 0000015B 00000160 20-03-2018 13:58:06 26CF6E8F [00081648-000817A7] www/img/ic_password.png
000817A8 2.0 0000 0008 0000011E 00000121 20-03-2018 13:58:07 2D89CBF8 [000817D9-000818F9] www/img/ic_user.png
000818FA 2.0 0000 0008 00006E08 00002A4F 20-03-2018 13:58:06 6A01E632 [0008192E-0008437C] www/img/Intrument1.png
0008437D 2.0 0000 0008 00006444 00002088 20-03-2018 13:58:06 54331AA2 [000843B1-00086438] www/img/Intrument2.png
00086439 2.0 0000 0008 0000704D 00002BC9 20-03-2018 13:58:07 7A6E3F62 [00086467-0008902F] www/img/LAN1.png
00089030 2.0 0000 0008 00006179 00002345 20-03-2018 13:58:06 F227C9F5 [0008905E-0008B3A2] www/img/LAN2.png
0008B3A3 2.0 0000 0008 000156C4 00012101 20-03-2018 13:58:06 4766C70E [0008B3D1-0009D4D1] www/img/logo.png
0009D4D2 2.0 0000 0008 0000740F 00002F8F 20-03-2018 13:58:06 A4E5054B [0009D501-000A048F] www/img/SCPI1.png
000A0490 2.0 0000 0008 00005DD6 000019E5 20-03-2018 13:58:06 10F8D9C4 [000A04BF-000A1EA3] www/img/SCPI2.png
000A1EA4 2.0 0000 0008 00000261 00000101 20-03-2018 13:58:05 59765DD4 [000A1ECF-000A1FCF] www/index.php
000A1FD0 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [000A1FFD-000A1FFC] www/Instrument/
000A1FFD 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [000A2030-000A202F] www/Instrument/novnc/
000A2030 2.0 0000 0008 00000012 00000012 20-03-2018 13:58:06 09EA74AA [000A206E-000A207F] www/Instrument/novnc/favicon.ico
000A2080 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [000A20BA-000A20B9] www/Instrument/novnc/images/
000A20BA 2.0 0000 0008 00000153 00000151 20-03-2018 13:58:06 E8B725E1 [000A20FB-000A224B] www/Instrument/novnc/images/alt.png
000A224C 2.0 0000 0008 000001F5 000001FA 20-03-2018 13:58:06 D063D8CA [000A2293-000A248C] www/Instrument/novnc/images/clipboard.png
000A248D 2.0 0000 0008 00000194 00000199 20-03-2018 13:58:06 310798F7 [000A24D2-000A266A] www/Instrument/novnc/images/connect.png
000A266B 2.0 0000 0008 00000162 00000161 20-03-2018 13:58:06 6610B793 [000A26AD-000A280D] www/Instrument/novnc/images/ctrl.png
000A280E 2.0 0000 0008 0000013D 00000142 20-03-2018 13:58:06 5FA26818 [000A2856-000A2997] www/Instrument/novnc/images/ctrlaltdel.png
000A2998 2.0 0000 0008 00000562 00000567 20-03-2018 13:58:06 2EABA092 [000A29E0-000A2F46] www/Instrument/novnc/images/disconnect.png
000A2F47 2.0 0000 0008 000003C3 000003C8 20-03-2018 13:58:06 06D319EE [000A2F89-000A3350] www/Instrument/novnc/images/drag.png
000A3351 2.0 0000 0008 00000181 00000182 20-03-2018 13:58:06 F86CB8F8 [000A3392-000A3513] www/Instrument/novnc/images/esc.png
000A3514 2.0 0000 0008 0000019E 00000189 20-03-2018 13:58:06 FD031A25 [000A3558-000A36E0] www/Instrument/novnc/images/expand.gif
000A36E1 2.0 0000 0008 0000047E 000000FF 20-03-2018 13:58:06 B17B6C52 [000A3726-000A3824] www/Instrument/novnc/images/favicon.ico
000A3825 2.0 0000 0008 000001C5 000001C5 20-03-2018 13:58:06 86BA4433 [000A386A-000A3A2E] www/Instrument/novnc/images/favicon.png
000A3A2F 2.0 0000 0008 000002ED 000002F2 20-03-2018 13:58:06 3956D9F0 [000A3A78-000A3D69] www/Instrument/novnc/images/full_screen.png
000A3D6A 2.0 0000 0008 000001A7 00000199 20-03-2018 13:58:06 FFF8D302 [000A3DAC-000A3F44] www/Instrument/novnc/images/hide.gif
000A3F45 2.0 0000 0008 00000503 00000508 20-03-2018 13:58:06 0E44D2DA [000A3F8B-000A4492] www/Instrument/novnc/images/keyboard.png
000A4493 2.0 0000 0008 0000014A 00000141 20-03-2018 13:58:06 297C782F [000A44D5-000A4615] www/Instrument/novnc/images/left.png
000A4616 2.0 0000 0008 000001FF 00000204 20-03-2018 13:58:06 33C0F7B9 [000A465E-000A4861] www/Instrument/novnc/images/mouse_left.png
000A4862 2.0 0000 0008 00000205 0000020A 20-03-2018 13:58:06 DE48BB49 [000A48AC-000A4AB5] www/Instrument/novnc/images/mouse_middle.png
000A4AB6 2.0 0000 0008 000001F1 000001F6 20-03-2018 13:58:06 B8155471 [000A4AFE-000A4CF3] www/Instrument/novnc/images/mouse_none.png
000A4CF4 2.0 0000 0008 00000201 00000206 20-03-2018 13:58:06 4BDAF377 [000A4D3D-000A4F42] www/Instrument/novnc/images/mouse_right.png
000A4F43 2.0 0000 0008 000000DF 000000D1 20-03-2018 13:58:06 5BC997F5 [000A4F8C-000A505C] www/Instrument/novnc/images/new-down-24.png
000A505D 2.0 0000 0008 000000EE 000000E0 20-03-2018 13:58:06 059AC92F [000A50A6-000A5185] www/Instrument/novnc/images/new-left-24.png
000A5186 2.0 0000 0008 000000EA 000000DD 20-03-2018 13:58:06 D3CBF039 [000A51D0-000A52AC] www/Instrument/novnc/images/new-right-24.png
000A52AD 2.0 0000 0008 000000B7 000000AB 20-03-2018 13:58:06 3407F6E1 [000A52F4-000A539E] www/Instrument/novnc/images/new-up-24.png
000A539F 2.0 0000 0008 00000186 00000188 20-03-2018 13:58:06 4EA5EAAC [000A53E2-000A5569] www/Instrument/novnc/images/power.png
000A556A 2.0 0000 0008 00000257 0000025C 20-03-2018 13:58:06 4DA3EF2C [000A55B1-000A580C] www/Instrument/novnc/images/press_new.png
000A580D 2.0 0000 0008 00000122 0000011C 20-03-2018 13:58:06 11609785 [000A5850-000A596B] www/Instrument/novnc/images/right.png
000A596C 2.0 0000 0008 00000141 0000013E 20-03-2018 13:58:06 0AA95190 [000A59B3-000A5AF0] www/Instrument/novnc/images/r_left-16.png
000A5AF1 2.0 0000 0008 00000142 0000013D 20-03-2018 13:58:06 D26DA198 [000A5B39-000A5C75] www/Instrument/novnc/images/r_right-16.png
000A5C76 2.0 0000 0008 000031EA 00002ED0 20-03-2018 13:58:06 BB29E23A [000A5CC2-000A8B91] www/Instrument/novnc/images/screen_320x460.png
000A8B92 2.0 0000 0008 0000070F 00000714 20-03-2018 13:58:06 6D5EA4CD [000A8BDC-000A92EF] www/Instrument/novnc/images/screen_57x57.png
000A92F0 2.0 0000 0008 0000460A 00003DE3 20-03-2018 13:58:06 82300E91 [000A933C-000AD11E] www/Instrument/novnc/images/screen_700x700.png
000AD11F 2.0 0000 0008 000009BF 00000977 20-03-2018 13:58:06 4A582C85 [000AD165-000ADADB] www/Instrument/novnc/images/settings.png
000ADADC 2.0 0000 0008 000002DF 000002E4 20-03-2018 13:58:06 AD86DFB3 [000ADB27-000ADE0A] www/Instrument/novnc/images/showextrakeys.png
000ADE0B 2.0 0000 0008 000000AD 000000A0 20-03-2018 13:58:06 76A67EB7 [000ADE4D-000ADEEC] www/Instrument/novnc/images/stop.png
000ADEED 2.0 0000 0008 00000183 00000186 20-03-2018 13:58:06 5026226C [000ADF2E-000AE0B3] www/Instrument/novnc/images/tab.png
000AE0B4 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [000AE0EF-000AE0EE] www/Instrument/novnc/include/
000AE0EF 2.0 0000 0008 00002A18 000009ED 10-04-2018 09:04:02 95E49CF6 [000AE132-000AEB1E] www/Instrument/novnc/include/base.css
000AEB1F 2.0 0000 0008 0000153E 0000088A 20-03-2018 13:58:05 7A8AC16F [000AEB63-000AF3EC] www/Instrument/novnc/include/base64.js
000AF3ED 2.0 0000 0008 00002AB0 000009FF 20-03-2018 17:29:18 611EECF8 [000AF437-000AFE35] www/Instrument/novnc/include/base_mobile.css
000AFE36 2.0 0000 0008 00001205 000002F4 20-03-2018 13:58:05 32FDD938 [000AFE7A-000B016D] www/Instrument/novnc/include/black.css
000B016E 2.0 0000 0008 00000534 000001A5 20-03-2018 13:58:05 F31B00F0 [000B01B1-000B0355] www/Instrument/novnc/include/blue.css
000B0356 2.0 0000 0008 000007EE 000002B4 20-03-2018 13:58:05 58434E20 [000B039C-000B064F] www/Instrument/novnc/include/browsers.js
000B0650 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [000B0696-000B0695] www/Instrument/novnc/include/chrome-app/
000B0696 2.0 0000 0008 000024F9 00000A27 20-03-2018 13:58:05 17252ED4 [000B06E9-000B110F] www/Instrument/novnc/include/chrome-app/tcp-client.js
000B1110 2.0 0000 0008 000029BA 00000F2C 20-03-2018 13:58:05 C52426D5 [000B1151-000B207C] www/Instrument/novnc/include/des.js
000B207D 2.0 0000 0008 00005575 0000175C 20-03-2018 13:58:05 CD04C438 [000B20C2-000B381D] www/Instrument/novnc/include/display.js
000B381E 2.0 0000 0008 00002C4A 00000A8C 20-03-2018 13:58:05 5D13357B [000B3867-000B42F2] www/Instrument/novnc/include/domkeytable.js
000B42F3 2.0 0000 0008 000004E0 000001EF 20-03-2018 13:58:05 66DA53C8 [000B433A-000B4528] www/Instrument/novnc/include/encodings.js
000B4529 2.0 0000 0008 000010A2 000005A8 20-03-2018 13:58:05 7934485D [000B456D-000B4B14] www/Instrument/novnc/include/events.js
000B4B15 2.0 0000 0008 00000409 00000196 20-03-2018 13:58:05 C7D62201 [000B4B5E-000B4CF3] www/Instrument/novnc/include/eventtarget.js
000B4CF4 2.0 0000 0008 00000EC4 00000467 20-03-2018 13:58:05 6AAB8870 [000B4D3B-000B51A1] www/Instrument/novnc/include/fixedkeys.js
000B51A2 2.0 0000 0008 0000049A 000001CE 20-03-2018 13:58:05 6C773BC2 [000B51E8-000B53B5] www/Instrument/novnc/include/inflator.js
000B53B6 2.0 0000 0008 0000C6A5 00002DAD 20-03-2018 13:58:05 CB3AA190 [000B53F9-000B81A5] www/Instrument/novnc/include/input.js
000B81A6 2.0 0000 0008 00004AC1 00001319 20-03-2018 13:58:05 564AF4D0 [000B81EB-000B9503] www/Instrument/novnc/include/jsunzip.js
000B9504 2.0 0000 0008 00005168 000015AA 20-03-2018 13:58:05 C9CCAD61 [000B954A-000BAAF3] www/Instrument/novnc/include/keyboard.js
000BAAF4 2.0 0000 0008 000057FE 000011D5 20-03-2018 13:58:05 BFC59E51 [000BAB38-000BBD0C] www/Instrument/novnc/include/keysym.js
000BBD0D 2.0 0000 0008 00005422 00001F89 20-03-2018 13:58:05 BA5BA9A2 [000BBD54-000BDCDC] www/Instrument/novnc/include/keysymdef.js
000BDCDD 2.0 0000 0008 00000536 00000209 20-03-2018 13:58:05 156BE805 [000BDD22-000BDF2A] www/Instrument/novnc/include/logging.js
000BDF2B 2.0 0000 0008 00006BDA 00004E97 20-03-2018 13:58:05 83395258 [000BDF6D-000C2E03] www/Instrument/novnc/include/logo.js
000C2E04 2.0 0000 0008 00002740 00000A7D 20-03-2018 13:58:05 4F35F4AF [000C2E47-000C38C3] www/Instrument/novnc/include/mouse.js
000C38C4 2.0 0000 0008 000096B4 00004435 20-03-2018 13:58:05 75810239 [000C390E-000C7D42] www/Instrument/novnc/include/Orbitron700.ttf
000C7D43 2.0 0000 0008 00004440 0000441B 20-03-2018 13:58:05 9B7440BD [000C7D8E-000CC1A8] www/Instrument/novnc/include/Orbitron700.woff
000CC1A9 2.0 0000 0008 000009BF 00000396 20-03-2018 13:58:05 EB0D8CA4 [000CC1EF-000CC584] www/Instrument/novnc/include/playback.js
000CC585 2.0 0000 0008 0000074F 000002F4 20-03-2018 13:58:05 CA2202E0 [000CC5CB-000CC8BE] www/Instrument/novnc/include/polyfill.js
000CC8BF 2.0 0000 0008 0000F4DE 000039CD 20-03-2018 13:58:05 552B77F4 [000CC900-000D02CC] www/Instrument/novnc/include/rfb.js
000D02CD 2.0 0000 0008 0000013B 000000E7 20-03-2018 13:58:05 312DF302 [000D0312-000D03F8] www/Instrument/novnc/include/strings.js
000D03F9 2.0 0000 0008 0000901A 00001C34 20-03-2018 13:58:05 8C2E1648 [000D0439-000D206C] www/Instrument/novnc/include/ui.js
000D206D 2.0 0000 0008 00002425 00000B93 20-03-2018 13:58:05 D823E18B [000D20AF-000D2C41] www/Instrument/novnc/include/util.js
000D2C42 2.0 0000 0008 000009D7 000003B6 20-03-2018 13:58:05 BFC66E5F [000D2C85-000D303A] www/Instrument/novnc/include/vkeys.js
000D303B 2.0 0000 0008 0000043F 000001F6 20-03-2018 13:58:05 66464436 [000D307C-000D3271] www/Instrument/novnc/include/vnc.js
000D3272 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [000D32BB-000D32BA] www/Instrument/novnc/include/web-socket-js/
000D32BB 2.0 0000 0008 00001753 00001758 20-03-2018 13:58:05 F2D8E66E [000D330E-000D4A65] www/Instrument/novnc/include/web-socket-js/README.txt
000D4A66 2.0 0000 0008 000027EC 00000F3C 20-03-2018 13:58:05 C1200AA1 [000D4ABB-000D59F6] www/Instrument/novnc/include/web-socket-js/swfobject.js
000D59F7 2.0 0000 0008 0002B3F3 0002981D 20-03-2018 13:58:05 044DC2E9 [000D5A51-000FF26D] www/Instrument/novnc/include/web-socket-js/WebSocketMain.swf
000FF26E 2.0 0000 0008 000032F0 0000104B 20-03-2018 13:58:05 8FA21DD0 [000FF2C4-0010030E] www/Instrument/novnc/include/web-socket-js/web_socket.js
0010030F 2.0 0000 0008 000023E2 00000B42 20-03-2018 13:58:05 FF6488B2 [00100354-00100E95] www/Instrument/novnc/include/websock.js
00100E96 2.0 0000 0008 00001041 00000652 20-03-2018 13:58:05 F887C1C8 [00100EDB-0010152C] www/Instrument/novnc/include/webutil.js
0010152D 2.0 0000 0008 000037B0 00000F15 20-03-2018 13:58:05 2076F13A [00101576-0010248A] www/Instrument/novnc/include/xtscancodes.js
0010248B 2.0 0000 0008 00000AE2 00000AA5 20-03-2018 13:58:05 5DF86B18 [001024C9-00102F6D] www/Instrument/novnc/LICENSE.txt
00102F6E 2.0 0000 0008 00001512 000009A4 20-03-2018 13:58:06 ECFC1F4A [00102FAA-0010394D] www/Instrument/novnc/README.md
0010394E 2.0 0000 0008 0000BEF0 000023D0 10-04-2018 09:04:02 5672FDC1 [0010398D-00105D5C] www/Instrument/novnc/vnc_auto.php
00105D5D 2.0 0000 0008 0000CD7D 00002637 20-03-2018 17:29:18 C76FD942 [00105DA3-001083D9] www/Instrument/novnc/vnc_auto_mobile.php
001083DA 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [001083FF-001083FE] www/js/
001083FF 2.0 0000 0008 000017EF 00000836 20-03-2018 13:58:06 29BD1571 [0010842C-00108C61] www/js/cycle.js
00108C62 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [00108C8E-00108C8D] www/js/device/
00108C8E 2.0 0000 0008 00012AEA 000031CD 20-03-2018 13:58:06 28E339A3 [00108CC4-0010BE90] www/js/device/t_table.js
0010BE91 2.0 0000 0008 0000069E 000002D8 20-03-2018 13:58:06 D03B120A [0010BEC2-0010C199] www/js/home_info.js
0010C19A 2.0 0000 0008 00010C6C 00002D85 20-03-2018 13:58:06 5E8976A5 [0010C1C9-0010EF4D] www/js/iscroll.js
0010EF4E 2.0 0000 0008 00000C31 00000539 20-03-2018 13:58:06 DB5D4D50 [0010EF83-0010F4BB] www/js/jquery.cookie.js
0010F4BC 2.0 0000 0008 0000FD23 00003377 20-03-2018 13:58:06 F4479356 [0010F4F5-0011286B] www/js/jquery.fileupload.js
0011286C 2.0 0000 0008 00002C0C 00000B06 20-03-2018 13:58:06 A612B1BD [001128AB-001133B0] www/js/jquery.iframe-transport.js
001133B1 2.0 0000 0008 000176F8 00008125 20-03-2018 13:58:06 6AE93E35 [001133E3-0011B507] www/js/jquery.min.js
0011B508 2.0 0000 0008 000013E4 000006A3 20-03-2018 13:58:06 40D7DC92 [0011B541-0011BBE3] www/js/jquery.pagination.js
0011BBE4 2.0 0000 0008 00001E96 00000AA1 20-03-2018 13:58:06 8C7EA0B6 [0011BC1E-0011C6BE] www/js/jquery.transit.min.js
0011C6BF 2.0 0000 0008 00000FC3 00000544 20-03-2018 13:58:06 5737EAD4 [0011C6F8-0011CC3B] www/js/jquery.wordexport.js
0011CC3C 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [0011CC70-0011CC6F] www/js/JSON-js-master/
0011CC70 2.0 0000 0008 000017EF 00000836 20-03-2018 13:58:06 29BD1571 [0011CCAC-0011D4E1] www/js/JSON-js-master/cycle.js
0011D4E2 2.0 0000 0008 00004800 0000157C 20-03-2018 13:58:06 685DAC78 [0011D51E-0011EA99] www/js/JSON-js-master/json2.js
0011EA9A 2.0 0000 0008 000023FF 00000A6B 20-03-2018 13:58:06 FE620627 [0011EADB-0011F545] www/js/JSON-js-master/json_parse.js
0011F546 2.0 0000 0008 00003341 00000CFC 20-03-2018 13:58:06 C908B106 [0011F58D-00120288] www/js/JSON-js-master/json_parse_state.js
00120289 2.0 0000 0008 00000689 0000035D 20-03-2018 13:58:06 B4BE88FD [001202C3-0012061F] www/js/JSON-js-master/README
00120620 2.0 0000 0008 00004800 0000157C 20-03-2018 13:58:06 685DAC78 [0012064D-00121BC8] www/js/json2.js
00121BC9 2.0 0000 0008 000023FF 00000A6B 20-03-2018 13:58:06 FE620627 [00121BFB-00122665] www/js/json_parse.js
00122666 2.0 0000 0008 00003341 00000CFC 20-03-2018 13:58:06 C908B106 [0012269E-00123399] www/js/json_parse_state.js
0012339A 2.0 0000 0008 000046A4 00000C68 20-03-2018 13:58:06 106FAAB6 [001233CC-00124033] www/js/lan_config.js
00124034 2.0 0000 0008 00000085 00000062 20-03-2018 13:58:06 872B6CB6 [00124062-001240C3] www/js/log_in.js
001240C4 2.0 0000 0008 0000215A 00000BE2 20-03-2018 13:58:06 A11D7515 [001240F0-00124CD1] www/js/main.js
00124CD2 2.0 0000 0008 00001DD7 00000A40 20-03-2018 13:58:06 02D7D4BB [00124D00-0012573F] www/js/mcplib.js
00125740 2.0 0000 0008 000001E4 000000B9 20-03-2018 13:58:06 CC50E34D [0012576B-00125823] www/js/npm.js
00125824 2.0 0000 0008 00019503 000084B5 20-03-2018 13:58:06 FC554B04 [00125858-0012DD0C] www/js/TweenMax.min.js
0012DD0D 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [0012DD39-0012DD38] www/js/vendor/
0012DD39 2.0 0000 0008 00003ED9 00001325 20-03-2018 13:58:06 B8246F6C [0012DD78-0012F09C] www/js/vendor/jquery.ui.widget.js
0012F09D 2.0 0000 0008 00000B2D 0000045B 20-03-2018 13:58:06 F719B09D [0012F0C7-0012F521] www/js/xhtml
0012F522 2.0 0000 0008 00007D6F 00001F54 20-03-2018 13:58:06 0AE8B9F2 [0012F55E-001314B1] www/js/xhtml1-transitional.dtd
001314B2 2.0 0000 0008 00001E9B 00000686 20-03-2018 13:58:05 7F4DEC6B [001314DB-00131B60] www/lan.php
00131B61 2.0 0000 0008 00002BDE 000008FB 20-03-2018 13:58:05 CB8B927E [00131B92-0013248C] www/lan_setting.php
0013248D 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [001324B3-001324B2] www/log/
001324B3 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 20-03-2018 13:58:03 00000000 [001324EB-001324EA] www/log/lighttpd_error.log
001324EB 2.0 0000 0008 000010C6 00000600 20-03-2018 13:58:05 4E3BEE8D [00132516-00132B15] www/login.php
00132B16 2.0 0000 0008 0000011B 000000B7 20-03-2018 13:58:05 562D1E79 [00132B42-00132BF8] www/logout.php
00132BF9 2.0 0000 0008 000010AE 00000546 20-03-2018 13:58:03 F7CB535A [00132C2B-00133170] www/SCPI_control.php
00133171 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [00133197-00133196] www/src/
00133197 2.0 0000 0008 000000B9 0000007F 20-03-2018 13:58:03 E60190A8 [001331C4-00133242] www/src/IDN.php
00133243 2.0 0000 0008 000000C8 00000082 20-03-2018 13:58:03 9E8519B7 [00133273-001332F4] www/src/index.html
001332F5 2.0 0000 0008 00000096 00000060 20-03-2018 11:03:29 ABE0D254 [00133324-00133383] www/vncserver.txt
00133384 2.0 0000 0008 00001366 00000502 20-03-2018 13:58:03 0C3FC166 [001333B1-001338B2] www/welcome.php
001338B3 2.0 0000 0008 0000CD29 00000FDE 18-04-2018 17:53:04 E101006D [001338E4-001348C1] factory_setting.xml
001348C2 2.0 0000 0008 003DBB6D 00154A22 07-03-2018 14:20:22 1ADBD5D6 [001348FA-0028931B] top_sds1000b_fpga_256M.bit
0028931C 2.0 0000 0008 00000E3A 00000337 20-03-2018 14:44:03 3C5F04C4 [00289343-00289679] update.sh
0028967A 2.0 0000 0008 000058A2 000020FB 20-03-2018 11:04:02 754BE126 [002896A1-0028B79B] vncserver
0028B79C 2.0 0000 0008 00C9BFBC 003ED733 03-05-2018 17:29:18 5E6E10C9 [0028B7C6-00678EF8] sds1000b.app
00678EF9 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:29 00000000 [00678F1F-00678F1E] drivers/
00678F1F 2.0 0000 0008 000068AD 000027D3 08-07-2017 00:10:13 FAAA09A7 [00678F50-0067B722] drivers/g_usbtmc.ko
0067B723 2.0 0000 0008 0000ECB5 00005D2C 08-07-2017 00:10:13 6E3E714E [0067B758-00681483] drivers/libcomposite.ko
00681484 2.0 0000 0008 000118E6 0000778E 17-11-2017 10:16:20 4C1729CD [006814B4-00688C41] drivers/mt7601u.ko
00688C42 2.0 0000 0008 000028C5 00000DF7 08-07-2017 00:10:12 EADEFABE [00688C74-00689A6A] drivers/siglentkb.ko
00689A6B 2.0 0000 0008 00002E6E 000010D2 08-07-2017 00:10:12 2DAC2FC4 [00689A9F-0068AB70] drivers/siglent_dma.ko
0068AB71 2.0 0000 0008 00002396 00000D35 08-07-2017 00:10:12 888DAB3C [0068ABA6-0068B8DA] drivers/siglent_vdma.ko
0068B8DB 2.0 0000 0008 00002288 00000B80 20-03-2018 11:04:02 E0989036 [0068B90F-0068C48E] drivers/siglent_vnc.ko
0068C48F 2.0 0000 0008 00003729 00001639 08-07-2017 00:10:12 AF8F4F6D [0068C4C6-0068DAFE] drivers/xilinx_axicdma.ko
0068DAFF 2.0 0000 0008 00003B9B 00001756 08-07-2017 00:10:12 A70C189A [0068DB35-0068F28A] drivers/xilinx_axidma.ko
0068F28B 2.0 0000 0008 0000412D 00001999 08-07-2017 00:10:12 6F40AEAD [0068F2BF-00690C57] drivers/xilinx_vdma.ko
00690C58 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:29 00000000 [00690C7A-00690C79] lib/
00690C7A 2.0 0000 0008 00005F13 00001B04 20-03-2018 11:04:02 9F6ED423 [00690CA8-006927AB] lib/brusvxi11.so
006927AC 2.0 0000 0008 0000916E 00003F99 20-03-2018 11:04:02 5B27B9AB [006927E2-0069677A] lib/ext_device_driver.so
0069677B 2.0 0000 0008 0006656C 00022BE8 20-03-2018 11:04:02 7405C839 [006967AA-006B9391] lib/libEasyLib.so
006B9392 2.0 0000 0008 0001E649 00008EBF 20-03-2018 11:04:02 AB77BB49 [006B93C3-006C2281] lib/libvncclient.so
006C2282 2.0 0000 0008 0001E649 00008EBF 20-03-2018 11:04:02 AB77BB49 [006C22B5-006CB173] lib/libvncclient.so.1
006CB174 2.0 0000 0008 00047C72 00016090 20-03-2018 11:04:02 6DB3266F [006CB1A5-006E1234] lib/libvncserver.so
006E1235 2.0 0000 0008 00047C72 00016091 20-03-2018 11:04:02 6DB3266F [006E1268-006F72F8] lib/libvncserver.so.1
006F72F9 1.0 0000 0000 00000000 00000000 24-04-2018 16:46:28 00000000 [006F731F-006F731E] ui_data/
006F731F 2.0 0000 0008 0001984A 00003053 08-03-2018 16:16:09 A321AADF [006F7359-006FA3AB] ui_data/arabic_help_info.xml
006FA3AC 2.0 0000 0008 00022B4D 00002B17 18-04-2018 17:53:04 B8A5607F [006FA3E6-006FCEFC] ui_data/arabic_menu_info.xml
006FCEFD 2.0 0000 0008 00008529 00001991 19-04-2018 14:25:18 722FD019 [006FCF37-006FE8C7] ui_data/arabic_text_info.xml
006FE8C8 2.0 0000 0008 000003F8 00000058 08-03-2018 16:16:09 9DBCA89C [006FE8F5-006FE94C] ui_data/dev.bmp
006FE94D 2.0 0000 0008 00019EFD 00003092 08-03-2018 16:16:09 A042F574 [006FE988-00701A19] ui_data/english_help_info.xml
00701A1A 2.0 0000 0008 00022DDF 00002B36 18-04-2018 17:53:04 88791D66 [00701A55-0070458A] ui_data/english_menu_info.xml
0070458B 2.0 0000 0008 00008529 00001991 19-04-2018 14:25:18 722FD019 [007045C6-00705F56] ui_data/english_text_info.xml
00705F57 2.0 0000 0008 0001986B 00003073 08-03-2018 16:16:09 6D3AED90 [00705F91-00709003] ui_data/french_help_info.xml
00709004 2.0 0000 0008 000230AD 00002C7E 18-04-2018 17:53:04 8AED7EF8 [0070903E-0070BCBB] ui_data/french_menu_info.xml
0070BCBC 2.0 0000 0008 0000850D 000019B5 19-04-2018 14:25:18 C784D9DF [0070BCF6-0070D6AA] ui_data/french_text_info.xml
0070D6AB 2.0 0000 0008 00019838 0000306C 08-03-2018 16:16:09 FF327C9E [0070D6E5-00710750] ui_data/german_help_info.xml
00710751 2.0 0000 0008 0002358D 00002D69 20-04-2018 17:31:26 5C3D513E [0071078B-007134F3] ui_data/german_menu_info.xml
007134F4 2.0 0000 0008 00008C86 00001BDE 20-04-2018 17:31:26 F42DFD2B [0071352E-0071510B] ui_data/german_text_info.xml
0071510C 2.0 0000 0008 00019838 0000306C 08-03-2018 16:16:09 FF327C9E [00715147-007181B2] ui_data/italian_help_info.xml
007181B3 2.0 0000 0008 0002337E 00002CA1 18-04-2018 17:53:04 7B38A23C [007181EE-0071AE8E] ui_data/italian_menu_info.xml
0071AE8F 2.0 0000 0008 00008522 000019AA 19-04-2018 14:25:18 5488AB5E [0071AECA-0071C873] ui_data/italian_text_info.xml
0071C874 2.0 0000 0008 00019838 0000306D 08-03-2018 16:16:10 6AAEF01C [0071C8B0-0071F91C] ui_data/japanese_help_info.xml
0071F91D 2.0 0000 0008 00023D54 00002ED8 18-04-2018 17:53:04 704AE29F [0071F959-00722830] ui_data/japanese_menu_info.xml
00722831 2.0 0000 0008 00008529 00001991 19-04-2018 14:25:18 722FD019 [0072286D-007241FD] ui_data/japanese_text_info.xml
007241FE 2.0 0000 0008 00019839 0000306C 08-03-2018 16:16:09 CC4D06A4 [00724238-007272A3] ui_data/korean_help_info.xml
007272A4 2.0 0000 0008 000237D5 00002E05 18-04-2018 17:53:05 E52D07AF [007272DE-0072A0E2] ui_data/korean_menu_info.xml
0072A0E3 2.0 0000 0008 00008529 00001991 19-04-2018 14:25:18 722FD019 [0072A11D-0072BAAD] ui_data/korean_text_info.xml
0072BAAE 2.0 0000 0008 00019838 0000306C 08-03-2018 16:16:09 0E61E2CD [0072BAEC-0072EB57] ui_data/portuguese_help_info.xml
0072EB58 2.0 0000 0008 00023003 00002C22 18-04-2018 17:53:04 B53815DB [0072EB96-007317B7] ui_data/portuguese_menu_info.xml
007317B8 2.0 0000 0008 0000851C 000019B1 19-04-2018 14:25:18 ED13903B [007317F6-007331A6] ui_data/portuguese_text_info.xml
007331A7 2.0 0000 0008 00019838 0000306C 08-03-2018 16:16:10 FF327C9E [007331E2-0073624D] ui_data/russian_help_info.xml
0073624E 2.0 0000 0008 00024899 00002FEA 18-04-2018 17:53:04 F842A09A [00736289-00739272] ui_data/russian_menu_info.xml
00739273 2.0 0000 0008 00008584 00001A4E 19-04-2018 14:25:18 40A19302 [007392AE-0073ACFB] ui_data/russian_text_info.xml
0073ACFC 2.0 0000 0008 00018B7F 000032BE 08-03-2018 16:16:09 79C7E7E1 [0073AD34-0073DFF1] ui_data/simp_help_info.xml
0073DFF2 2.0 0000 0008 000236C0 00002E35 18-04-2018 17:53:04 3E240DE8 [0073E02A-00740E5E] ui_data/simp_menu_info.xml
00740E5F 2.0 0000 0008 00008473 00001AB2 19-04-2018 14:25:18 E027E215 [00740E97-00742948] ui_data/simp_text_info.xml
00742949 2.0 0000 0008 0001983C 0000306F 08-03-2018 16:16:09 675D1C20 [00742984-007459F2] ui_data/spanish_help_info.xml
007459F3 2.0 0000 0008 00023289 00002C26 18-04-2018 17:53:04 AD8DF98C [00745A2E-00748653] ui_data/spanish_menu_info.xml
00748654 2.0 0000 0008 00008540 000019B7 19-04-2018 14:25:18 3D98F0D4 [0074868F-0074A045] ui_data/spanish_text_info.xml
0074A046 2.0 0000 0008 00018402 00003278 08-03-2018 16:16:09 310C9F64 [0074A07E-0074D2F5] ui_data/trad_help_info.xml
0074D2F6 2.0 0000 0008 000236C1 00002EC2 18-04-2018 17:53:04 8C72FBFC [0074D32E-007501EF] ui_data/trad_menu_info.xml
007501F0 2.0 0000 0008 0000846C 00001AF7 19-04-2018 14:25:18 5395CA64 [00750228-00751D1E] ui_data/trad_text_info.xml
00751D1F 2.0 0000 0008 00000308 00000066 08-03-2018 16:16:10 539A7E1A [00751D4C-00751DB1] ui_data/usb.bmp
Disk Entries: 225 Total Entries: 225 Directory Size: 24895 bytes [00751DB2-00757EF0]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SLA1016_8.1.9.ADS
File Header Size: 00000070
00000000 - File Checksum: DA10D267 [00000004-004C5322] (with only the File Header decrypted) CKSM OK
00000004 - File Size: 004C52B3 (without 0x70 bytes of the File Header)
0000000C - HW Version: 14501
00000026 - Vendor/Brand: SIGLENT
0000003A - USB Host Controller: ISP1763
****************************************************
Decrypting the 0x2800 and 0x1400 blocks...
Reversing file...
XORing with 0xFF (incrementing pattern)...
XORing with 0xFF from 0x0026295A until 0x004C52B2
****************************************************
00000000 --- Section Checksum: D827DE50
00000004 --- Section Size: 004C527F [00000034-004C52B2] CKSM OK
00000008 --- Section # 00000007
00000034 --- 004C52B2 ***** ZIP file *****
Offset Ver Flag Comp Size Packed Modified CRC32 Name Extra Details
00000034 2.0 0000 0008 0000CD29 00000FDE 18-04-2018 17:53:04 E101006D [00000065-00001042] factory_setting.xml
00001043 2.0 0000 0008 003DBB68 000D71AD 30-03-2018 10:36:14 6A4BBCC3 [00001076-000D8222] top_sds1000b_fpga.bit
000D8223 2.0 0000 0008 00000CD1 0000030A 08-11-2017 16:59:20 63FABAD6 [000D824A-000D8553] update.sh
000D8554 2.0 0000 0008 00C9ACE4 003ECB9A 20-04-2018 17:33:10 9D7B62C9 [000D857E-004C5117] sds1000b.app
Disk Entries: 4 Total Entries: 4 Directory Size: 389 bytes [004C5118-004C529C]
As a note/addition I installed the FW and then OS from a freshly formatted and only 512 MB USB stick.
Not entirely sure as some of the improvements you've listed in the Review thread I've not seen yet. More study needed. Got to whip out and get another shipment so it'll be later before I look at this all in detail.As a note/addition I installed the FW and then OS from a freshly formatted and only 512 MB USB stick.
So it's confirmed that we can do it in any order we like.
Not entirely sure as some of the improvements you've listed in the Review thread I've not seen yet. More study needed. Got to whip out and get another shipment so it'll be later before I look at this all in detail.As a note/addition I installed the FW and then OS from a freshly formatted and only 512 MB USB stick.
So it's confirmed that we can do it in any order we like.
Like Arny, I'll be back. :)
For some reason, the OS update doesn't seem to install for me. However, I was able to install the firmware with the .ADS file (using the same usb stick) so now my system version shows:
Software Version: 7.0.6.1.25R1
FPGA Version: 2018-03-06
Any ideas why it won't pick up the OS update during bootup? I've tried having the usb stick in the front and back ports when I power on. The files were in the root directory with nothing else on the drive.
I'll try another usb stick when I have time to go find one.
Any ideas why it won't pick up the OS update during bootup? I've tried having the usb stick in the front and back ports when I power on. The files were in the root directory with nothing else on the drive.
For those who have issues with the OS update:
Did you make sure the 4 files match the screenshot in the update instructions?
With the USB stick plugged in, if you go to any save/load/update function, are the files on the stick properly displayed on the scope?
1. Try to format the stick on Linux just to be totally sure.
2. Have you tried plugin in the stick after scope boot?
I know it's not what the manual says but it was the only way I managed to upgrade my DS1052E...
Yep. it's all good.Not entirely sure as some of the improvements you've listed in the Review thread I've not seen yet. More study needed. Got to whip out and get another shipment so it'll be later before I look at this all in detail.As a note/addition I installed the FW and then OS from a freshly formatted and only 512 MB USB stick.
So it's confirmed that we can do it in any order we like.
Like Arny, I'll be back. :)
Please don't alienate the folks here ;)
Verifying the listed fixes/improvements is a completely different matter and I will certainly take a closer look at them soon - even though I generally have very little time right now.
Whenever the system status displays 7.1.6.1.25R1 as the software version, then this proves that both (OS and FW) updates have worked okay. No further confirmation needed.
For me this confirms that the USB-stick and its formatting is fine and I cannot think of any reason why the automatic OS update wouldn't work.One possibility is inserting the OS upgrade without the DSO OFF. Instruction clearly states it should be and then after inserted power ON. It'll reboot a time or two but when finished stop at the normal display.
For me this confirms that the USB-stick and its formatting is fine and I cannot think of any reason why the automatic OS update wouldn't work.One possibility is inserting the OS upgrade without the DSO OFF. Instruction clearly states it should be and then after inserted power ON. It'll reboot a time or two but when finished stop at the normal display.
I only have Windows available at the moment, so I can't try formatting through linux. Sorry! It is an 8GB drive formatted as Fat32.
I've tried inserting the usb stick while the scope was powered off, and also while it was on and then rebooting it. Same result either way for the OS not installing. The firmware installed fine through the normal Utility menu on the scope.
The 4 files match in name, timestamp, and file size as those shown in the instructions pdf file.
I updated mine successfully and did the firmware first then OS second. Apparently though the order is not important.
New release bugs and questions about how quickly they would be addressed were probably the most negative comments about these two new scopes. So far I am impressed with Siglent's effort to get this done quickly and with an open mind as to requested changes.
People make a lot of noise and praise new firmware releases but they fail to realise they bought a flawed device to begin with, not all bugs are fixed and some bugs may never be fixed. :palm:New release bugs and questions about how quickly they would be addressed were probably the most negative comments about these two new scopes. So far I am impressed with Siglent's effort to get this done quickly and with an open mind as to requested changes.On 8 Febrary 2018 I sent the issue about signal distortions (which was added in the latest firmware for SDS1102X) to Siglent Support.
But there is still no fix for this annoying bug. And I still stay with old firmware where this bug is missing.
Noob question: the siglent and root passwords of this scope (new OS) are known?One would guess they're the same as they've always been. I know not otherwise.
People make a lot of noise and praise new firmware releases but they fail to realise they bought a flawed device to begin with, not all bugs are fixed and some bugs may never be fixed. :palm:New release bugs and questions about how quickly they would be addressed were probably the most negative comments about these two new scopes. So far I am impressed with Siglent's effort to get this done quickly and with an open mind as to requested changes.On 8 Febrary 2018 I sent the issue about signal distortions (which was added in the latest firmware for SDS1102X) to Siglent Support.
But there is still no fix for this annoying bug. And I still stay with old firmware where this bug is missing.
Okay, I just got a reply from Siglent and they would like to know the result when a different USB stick is used.
As unlikely as it seems to me, there aren't many possibilities left, so you should definitely try a different USB stick, preferably a different brand as well. maybe you could also provide the information what you actually use.
I would also strongly consider the advice given by cadre above. Corrupted files would certainly prevent the update process.
EDIT: oh yes, and tv84's suggestion should be considered as well ...
With the new usb stick, the OS updated successfully right away.
Thanks all for the various suggestions to troubleshoot!
I understand what you are saying, but this may be the new "normal" in this class of scope. Releasing "rough" product seems to be a trend.Releasing a "rough product" is a trend today everywhere, indeed. It is the result of the new "Agile mindset" especially with the sw community, which considers a "waterfall" sw development project approach obsolete.
First thing that I noticed in the newest firmware is that AC trigger level indicator is still missing.Okay, that doesn’t surprise me as there was absolutely no evidence we would get that at all, let alone for this intermediate update. Yet I’ll ask for once why this request is persistently ignored.
Added later: I have no clue how the fix of IC2 bug passed QA test and was added into the new firmware but this is what we get now:First let me say thank you for trying out the new IIC decoder and documenting its issues so thoroughly. I’m really sad to see this mess.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=441550;image)
1) what is that suffix 'A' doing in the hex output (before they used H)?It is quite obvious that the decoder is messed up. The ‘0x’ doesn’t belong there and the ‘A’ should be ‘H’. I think a (non capital!) ‘h’ suffix might still be useful to clearly indicate the numeric format used when taking screenshots.
2) what is the point in using the prefix '0x' and the suffix (I assume Siglent meant 'H' but ended up with 'A' due to some strange reasons)? If you want to save space then either use the prefix or the suffix but not both because the screen is small and space is precious. I would say - use none, since after I have set the format to 'Hex' I don't need any reminders/hints embedded into the data since I am shown what I asked for - the hexadecimal data;
3) it is a nice idea to have a dedicated window to show the missing part of the string although I would implement it differently. Anyway, I would be happy with it too but just look at the last hex number in the first line (19A) and the first hex number in the second line (1BA) - the guys lost 0x1A or 1AH (a matter of taste);Yes, the text doesn’t quite fit the window width.
4)again, I think consistency is important. Look at the last hex number in the packet (it's 0x1F) displayed in the 'Long Data' window - it is there. Now look at the SDA and SCL lines, the end of the packet - 0x1F is there. Now look at the decoded data (the line at the bottom of the screen) - the last part is '0AA 0' - it must be 0x1F and nothing else to be synchronized with other data.It is quite obvious that the packet is severely misaligned and truncated in the bottom decoding line. You get the first 11 bytes at a wrong position – and a red dot at the right end of the bracket, indicating that there is more data – how true.
It is quite obvious that the decoder is messed up. The ‘0x’ doesn’t belong there and the ‘A’ should be ‘H’. I think a (non capital!) ‘h’ suffix might still be useful to clearly indicate the numeric format used when taking screenshots.
It can be as in image example: 0x00 01 02 03 04 05 06..... etc. It is totally stupid waste of tiny resources if add H or h or what ever after every data byte. if 0xdd (dd=data) in fisrt place do not make clear to everyone that displayed data is hex..... unprintable.
I fully agree too.Certainly, some members here have close contact with Siglent and have been/are beta testers for their products.
0x at the beginning of the string to remind it's hex, and the rest using just 2 hex-digit pairs.
By the way, I'm fitting my hobby lab with the full range of Siglent equipment (PSU, Scope, SA, Meter, FuncGen), and noticed a few bugs/issues for example on the SA32xx. Is this forum a good way to let Siglent know about those issues in the hope they will profide fixes?
:palm: The A stands for 'Acknowledge' of the I2C bus. There will probably an 'N' or '~A' for not-acknowledge .
What happens if you zoom out? Is the bottom decoder line still misaligned and/or truncated?
I really like this scope but there are 2 things that I find a little strange..In the Measure menu, select Statistics and then adjust Transparency in the Display menu for best viewing.
1- why I can see only 4 measurements?? to me it's not enough especially on a 4ch scope. I know that I see all the measurements at the same time, but I can't see 4 measure of 2 channels at the same time for example.
2- when I hit the circle button on the left for hiding the menu why also the measures disappears? can't we use the menu buttons space for more measurements when the menu is hidden?
I really like this scope but there are 2 things that I find a little strange..In the Measure menu, select Statistics and then adjust Transparency in the Display menu for best viewing.
1- why I can see only 4 measurements?? to me it's not enough especially on a 4ch scope. I know that I see all the measurements at the same time, but I can't see 4 measure of 2 channels at the same time for example.
2- when I hit the circle button on the left for hiding the menu why also the measures disappears? can't we use the menu buttons space for more measurements when the menu is hidden?
This way you can display many parameters without impacting on the displayed waveform/s.
The Stats list will also jump down into the Menu space at the foot of the display when menus are hidden.
Eg:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=428152)
The SSA's are a complex instrument for the hobbyist and many users produce results they have trouble understanding but some study of this often linked KS AN gives good guidance for SSA use:
Keysight AN-150
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5952-0292.pdf (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5952-0292.pdf)
Thanks for the link, good document.
I'm thinking in buying this scope but, in the meantime, a couple of questions: ;)Yes, in the Utilities menu and then the Options sub menu, then Install menu where 16 digit hexadecimal permanent licensing code is installed for each option.
- Is there any menu where we can insert license codes?
Anyone interested can have a look at the latest version's decrypted ZIP file: SDS1004X_E_6.1.25R1.ZIP (https://cld.pt/dl/download/4945cdec-ea16-493c-8603-74374e8a14fd/SDS1004X_E_6.1.25R1.zip)
Yes, in the Utilities menu and then the Options sub menu, then Install menu where 16 digit hexadecimal permanent licensing code is installed for each option.
They are all already active for 30 free trial usages.
"An error occurred during a connection to cld.pt. You have received an invalid certificate. Please contact the server administrator or email correspondent and give them the following information: Your certificate contains the same serial number as another certificate issued by the certificate authority. Please get a new certificate containing a unique serial number. Error code: SEC_ERROR_REUSED_ISSUER_AND_SERIAL"
I've just checked and I have no problem downloading the zip. Anyone else has the prob? The link is perfectly valid.
Anyone interested can have a look at the latest version's decrypted ZIP file: SDS1004X_E_6.1.25R1.ZIP (https://cld.pt/dl/download/4945cdec-ea16-493c-8603-74374e8a14fd/SDS1004X_E_6.1.25R1.zip)
"An error occurred during a connection to cld.pt. You have received an invalid certificate. Please contact the server administrator or email correspondent and give them the following information: Your certificate contains the same serial number as another certificate issued by the certificate authority. Please get a new certificate containing a unique serial number. Error code: SEC_ERROR_REUSED_ISSUER_AND_SERIAL"
"An error occurred during a connection to cld.pt. You have received an invalid certificate. Please contact the server administrator or emailI've just checked and I have no problem downloading the zip. Anyone else has the prob? The link is perfectly valid.
Just saying. And a question just out of curiosity. Let's say one would want to try this unpacked firmware on the real hardware, how he would do that? As far as I know the builtin update procedure accepts only ads files.
Just noticed the information in the main web page are wrong/missing... I guess my update didn't go as expected :o
Is there any way to force a full system factory reset? Maybe resetting all options to default could solve the problem...
Sorry to hear you're having some troubles. Have you been able to sort it out by now?
then I would suspect that the problem is located outside the scope (LAN connection, browser
For you pleasure. :)Yes, in the Utilities menu and then the Options sub menu, then Install menu where 16 digit hexadecimal permanent licensing code is installed for each option.
They are all already active for 30 free trial usages.
Please share a printscreen of that menu.
Just noticed the information in the main web page are wrong/missing... I guess my update didn't go as expected :oI've seen the same info missing but only when the IP in the scope isn't properly configured.
Is there any way to force a full system factory reset? Maybe resetting all options to default could solve the problem...
I've seen the same info missing but only when the IP in the scope isn't properly configured.
I guess I can also try to downgrade and re-upgrade the OS but I think I'll wait Siglent response.
Thankfully all other functions of the scope seem unaffected and I can live without remote control for now.
I've asked the status of the issue (figured my direct contacts should work quicker than the distributor + tech support chain) and learned the following:
Siglent have identified the problem. The new version isn't compatible with all the previous ones. There will be a new package release soon that will fix that.
Not that more than 3 digits would make much senseYou are right, those 0.123456789x is something people would not appreciate too much, better to stay with 3 digits and an exponent, say +12..-12 (tera..pico). Best in "Engineering" notation/format..
1.23 x
123 x
1.23E-3 x
12.3E12 x
-235 x
-2.35E6 x
-23.5E-9 x
-235E-12 x
..
These coefficients must not be related to the "probe attenuation or gain" but generally to a "measurement". For example you may watch an waveform at the -2.5V/100pA output of your DIY pico-ampermeter, with stock 10x probe. So you will dial "-2.50E-9 x" in.
Using the 4ch 4 different probes setup from a few posts back I shot a very basic vid showing remote display responsiveness for possible any big screen or projector presentation use/needs.
SDS1104X-E webserver via WiFi to laptop which in turn is connected to a VGA 18" monitor. Took only a minute or two to setup.
Done from my phone so nothing flash, just a quick demo.
~50s
Thank you.Using the 4ch 4 different probes setup from a few posts back I shot a very basic vid showing remote display responsiveness for possible any big screen or projector presentation use/needs.
SDS1104X-E webserver via WiFi to laptop which in turn is connected to a VGA 18" monitor. Took only a minute or two to setup.
Done from my phone so nothing flash, just a quick demo.
~50s
Thanks for that! I just happen to have some 27" monitors on my PCs, a perfect size for old people.
That scope is looking better and better. One of these days I'll have to buy the SDS1204X-E.
Looking into the SDS1000X-E fw, one can see that the 250Mhz and 300Mhz is a possibility (in sw terms, at least).
Looking into the SDS1000X-E fw, one can see that the 250Mhz and 300Mhz is a possibility (in sw terms, at least).
Here is screenshot of 100 MHz square wave with 1 ns rise time. I got it with my 100 MHz SDS1102X:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=452380;image)
BW is dictated by the -3dB point, nothing else !Looking into the SDS1000X-E fw, one can see that the 250Mhz and 300Mhz is a possibility (in sw terms, at least).
Here is screenshot of 100 MHz square wave with 1 ns rise time. I got it with my 100 MHz SDS1102X:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=452380;image)
The Rise time is measured as 1.70 ns, it corresponds to the bandwidth = 0.35 / 1.7 ns = 205.8 MHz :popcorn:
And here is even more - 290 MHz square wave with 1 ns rise time:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=452386;image)
The Rise time is measured as 1.02 ns. The bandwidth = 0.35 / 1.02 = 343.1 MHz... :bullshit:
The SDS1102X that radiolistener has is a different series to X-E and does have 50 ohm inputs.Looking into the SDS1000X-E fw, one can see that the 250Mhz and 300Mhz is a possibility (in sw terms, at least).
Here is screenshot of 100 MHz square wave with 1 ns rise time. I got it with my 100 MHz SDS1102X:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=452380;image)
Very interesting. As far as I know the recent versions of firmware don't provide 50 om Impedance option for SDS1XXX X-E series (1102/1202 - 1104/1204), this menu item has been removed long time ago. Are you running some sort of a very old firmware?
BW is dictated by the -3dB point, nothing else !
Significant signal attenuation is evident once you go past the rated frequency
this isn't true for modern scopes of higher quality
No need to write it again, it can be seen in multiple places online such as this tech note:
https://www.k-state.edu/edl/docs/pubs/technical-resources/Technote2.pdf (https://www.k-state.edu/edl/docs/pubs/technical-resources/Technote2.pdf)
just have a look at (15)-(25).
This is why modern scopes have values of 0.4-0.45.
Again, no need to claim its sales issue or isn't, just go try it for yourself. You will see that the rise time for a step input doesn't match the 3dB point for sin input with this 0.35 ratio on these maximum flatness scopes.
Look what the SDS2304X can do. Does that mean it has a bandwidth of nearly 600MHz? ;)
So it is possible to hack an SDS1104X-E to be a SDS1204X-E.Interesting. It'd make the Siglent a lot more competitive compared to the DS1054Z.
You need to patch the OS update so that the root password is known -- another member of eevblog has done this (check over in the ADS file format thread - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/125/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/125/) )
telnet to the scope, and log in as root. And execute the following commands and then power cycle the scope;
mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
cd /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
mv bandwidth.txt bandwidth.bak
So it is possible to hack an SDS1104X-E to be a SDS1204X-E.
Mine has pretty flat response from 1 Mhz to 120Mhz after the hack... (Using coax, 50ohm terminated directly from a signal generator) - much flatter than before.
FIR[0][0] = [ 0.00079346 0.00073242 -0.00085449 -0.00634766 -0.01455688 -0.01586914 0.00582886 0.06085205 0.13955688 0.21099854 0.23999023]
FIR[0][1] = [ 0.00079346 0.00073242 -0.00085449 -0.00634766 -0.01455688 -0.01586914 0.00582886 0.06085205 0.13955688 0.21099854 0.23999023]
FIR[0][2] = [ 0. 0.00125122 0.0032959 0.00231934 -0.00872803 -0.02700806 -0.02737427 0.02441406 0.13296509 0.24938965 0.29998779]
FIR[1][0] = [ 0.00161743 -0.00170898 -0.02911377 0.01168823 0.27908325 0.48001099 0.27908325 0.01168823 -0.02911377 -0.00170898 0.00161743]
FIR[1][1] = [ 0.00161743 -0.00170898 -0.02911377 0.01168823 0.27908325 0.48001099 0.27908325 0.01168823 -0.02911377 -0.00170898 0.00161743]
FIR[1][2] = [ 0. 0.0065918 -0.01742554 -0.05477905 0.26596069 0.6000061 0.26596069 -0.05477905 -0.01742554 0.0065918 0. ]
FIR[2][0] = [ 0. 0.00576782 -0.03933716 0.1055603 0.85598755 0.1055603 -0.03933716 0.00576782 0. 0. 0. ]
FIR[2][1] = [ 0. 0.00576782 -0.03933716 0.1055603 0.85598755 0.1055603 -0.03933716 0.00576782 0. 0. 0. ]
FIR[2][2] = [ 0. -0.00161743 0.00845337 -0.02197266 0.03717041 0.95599365 0.03717041 -0.02197266 0.00845337 -0.00161743 0. ]
FIR[3][0] = [-0.00039673 -0.00271606 -0.00787354 -0.01071167 0.00460815 0.05377197 0.13238525 0.20831299 0.23999023 0. 0. ]
FIR[3][1] = [-0.00039673 -0.00271606 -0.00787354 -0.01071167 0.00460815 0.05377197 0.13238525 0.20831299 0.23999023 0. 0. ]
FIR[3][2] = [ 0.0015564 0.00097656 -0.00469971 -0.01818848 -0.02166748 0.02157593 0.12612915 0.2461853 0.29998779 0. 0. ]
FIR[4][0] = [-0.00082397 -0.01571655 0.00924683 0.26473999 0.48001099 0.26473999 0.00924683 -0.01571655 -0.00082397 0. 0. ]
FIR[4][1] = [-0.00082397 -0.01571655 0.00924683 0.26473999 0.48001099 0.26473999 0.00924683 -0.01571655 -0.00082397 0. 0. ]
FIR[4][2] = [ 0.00314331 -0.00939941 -0.04336548 0.25228882 0.6000061 0.25228882 -0.04336548 -0.00939941 0.00314331 0. 0. ]
So from what it looks like, they "just" apply some gain so move the -3dB points at the cost of more noise...
The "official" BW configurations of the SDS1004X-E model are 50, 70, 100 and 200Mhz.Maybe but no 50 MHz version exists for market.
Maybe but no 50 MHz version exists for market.
Only the Chinese market get to see 70 MHz versions in the X-C range.
The 20MHz limit is switched in the frontend, but the frontend is not switched for 100 MHz vs. 200 MHz.
So it is possible to hack an SDS1104X-E to be a SDS1204X-E.
You need to patch the OS update so that the root password is known -- another member of eevblog has done this (check over in the ADS file format thread - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/125/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/125/) )
telnet to the scope, and log in as root. And execute the following commands and then power cycle the scope;
mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
cd /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
mv bandwidth.txt bandwidth.bak
So it is possible to hack an SDS1104X-E to be a SDS1204X-E.
You need to patch the OS update so that the root password is known -- another member of eevblog has done this (check over in the ADS file format thread - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/125/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/125/) )
telnet to the scope, and log in as root. And execute the following commands and then power cycle the scope;
mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
cd /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
mv bandwidth.txt bandwidth.bak
so with these simple steps, the SDS-1104x-e will turn into an SDS-1204x-e at full effect? or is only a matter of model name in the system info?
So it is possible to hack an SDS1104X-E to be a SDS1204X-E.
You need to patch the OS update so that the root password is known -- another member of eevblog has done this (check over in the ADS file format thread - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/125/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/125/) )
telnet to the scope, and log in as root. And execute the following commands and then power cycle the scope;
mount -o remount,rw ubi2_0 /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
cd /usr/bin/siglent/firmdata0
mv bandwidth.txt bandwidth.bak
so with these simple steps, the SDS-1104x-e will turn into an SDS-1204x-e at full effect? or is only a matter of model name in the system info?
Just in some previous messages there was tests about BW and risetime etc.
And bit earlier there was also other member (Performa01) made BW test using SDS1104X-E as it is after factory. If you can not spot/guess what are these other tests... if you read this whole thread and tests etc.. I do not think it is difficult to deduce/extrapolate what are these last results. :-/O ;)
Looking at Performa01's review of the probes that come with the 1104 vs the 1204, the charts and graphs provided seem to show that they have similar 3dB points and rise times, but the PP215s have a much wider 1dB BW.At $27ea maybe, depending on the absolute accuracy you require. But for 4 probes, nah as you'd be very unlikely to need all 4 channels that precisely accurate. Maybe get one or two if you feel you really need to.
Does it make sense to spend the hundred bucks and bump up to the PP215's from the PP510's?
The 20MHz limit is switched in the frontend, but the frontend is not switched for 100 MHz vs. 200 MHz.
Can you prove that this is a fact. Where are evidences?
Have you analyzed 4 channel models analog front end signal pathway from AD8370 to ADA4932?
I just received my brand new SDS1204X-E and noticed it was warm when plugged in but not turned on. It is drawing 4.7 watts doing nothing. Maybe Siglent should include a power switch on the side or back to turn it off completely.
I just received my brand new SDS1204X-E and noticed it was warm when plugged in but not turned on. It is drawing 4.7 watts doing nothing. Maybe Siglent should include a power switch on the side or back to turn it off completely.
1) Is there any difference in operation of the SLA1016 between the 1104 and 1204? From the data sheet, there doesn't seem to be, as the specs say 1 GSa/s, 14 Mpts/CH, and Min. Detectable Pulse Width 4 ns.
Just for fun playing with one SDS1104X-E
Both images test signal and scope settings all same.
1GSa/s, FFT 0 - 500MHz, 10dB div,
Sweep from 5MHz to 500MHz. Source HP8642B, ~-5dBm - 30cm Suhner RG223/U - Tektronix 50 ohm feed thru terminator.
(Later some words and tiny examples about over Nyquist aliasing specially with 500MSa/s and with wide analog BW).
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=460951;image)
Original
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=460957;image)
Experimental
It also looks like the attenuation beyond nyquist (250MHz for 3/4-channels enabled) in 200MHz mode is not really sufficient to stop aliasing of signals with significant >250MHz content.
Until there is confirmation as to exactly what we're looking at it's hard to draw conclusions though - maybe rf-loop has been doing some hardware hacking too?
It also looks like the attenuation beyond nyquist (250MHz for 3/4-channels enabled) in 200MHz mode is not really sufficient to stop aliasing of signals with significant >250MHz content. I would be interested to see what the waveforms look like with an input from something like Leo Bodnar's rise-time-tester is - this really plays havoc with the DS1054Z for example. I suspect that you'd need to be a bit careful with the 200MHz model when using more than 2 channels to look at stuff that might have higher-frequency components.
On this note, I really wish you could deliberately make use of the lower bandwidth options that are built into software-upgradable scopes (other than the standard 20MHz). The lower bandwidth limits are built in already for lower end models, but despite being useful for reducing noise and/or aliasing for inputs when full bandwidth isn't needed (but >20MHz is), this doesn't seem to be offered by many/any manufacturers (I've seen an extra 150MHz step above 20MHz on some Tek scopes, but not much more).
A couple of questions:No.
1) Is there any difference in operation of the SLA1016 between the 1104 and 1204? From the data sheet, there doesn't seem to be, as the specs say 1 GSa/s, 14 Mpts/CH, and Min. Detectable Pulse Width 4 ns.
2) I haven't temporarily activated any options yet, and I do not see a <license> element in my NSP_system_info XML file. I'm wondering if permanently activating the options might be done in a similar way as on the SSA3021X? Has anyone tried this, yet? I plan on taking a look at this tonight.Don't know.
3) The User's Guide make some reference to being able to update the "Digital" software in a section entitled Digital System status and firmware upgrade on page 160. Is this really the case that there is a separate, independent software upgrade for the MSO option? Or is this software just part of the already included application software, or the SLA resident firmware, and the license key purchase for the MSO is just that, a license key only?The SLA firmware is just that, firmware for the SLA module. The upgrade GUI and path are only available when the SLA module is connected. The FW is installed via the DSO's USB connection and through the S-Bus into the SLA module. All very straigt forward just like updating the DSO FW.
The reason I ask is that purchasing the SLA1016 seems much more attractive if I would be getting full performance at somewhat of a discount on cost. :DIt's only if you need 4+ channels this might be attractive as there is more capability within the scope than the SLA.
The SLA firmware is just that, firmware for the SLA module. The upgrade GUI and path are only available when the SLA module is connected. The FW is installed via the DSO's USB connection and through the S-Bus into the SLA module. All very straight forward just like updating the DSO FW.Understood. The manual page wasn't quite clear to me until now.
It's only if you need 4+ channels this might be attractive as there is more capability within the scope than the SLA.I don't need anything. :) I was thinking about picking up a decent logic analyzer, but didn't really want a PC-based USB one for my tiny workbench. Having the MSO pod for the 1104 made sense, but that price+license cost is a bitter pill to swallow (or more like a suppository given the scope was only $499 itself) Being able to just fork over the bucks for the pod and creatively acquiring the license by other means would make it more attractive to a cheapskate like myself.
More info and we can better advise if SLA is the right choice for you.
Other than toli's findings, the SLA HW needs be improved.The SLA firmware is just that, firmware for the SLA module. The upgrade GUI and path are only available when the SLA module is connected. The FW is installed via the DSO's USB connection and through the S-Bus into the SLA module. All very straight forward just like updating the DSO FW.Understood. The manual page wasn't quite clear to me until now.It's only if you need 4+ channels this might be attractive as there is more capability within the scope than the SLA.I don't need anything. :) I was thinking about picking up a decent logic analyzer, but didn't really want a PC-based USB one for my tiny workbench. Having the MSO pod for the 1104 made sense, but that price+license cost is a bitter pill to swallow (or more like a suppository given the scope was only $499 itself) Being able to just fork over the bucks for the pod and creatively acquiring the license by other means would make it more attractive to a cheapskate like myself.
More info and we can better advise if SLA is the right choice for you.
I am a tad concerned about the issues that toli raised, but am hoping Siglent will address them in short order.
tautech, I'm getting a strange sensation that you're trying to talk me out of buying the SLA? :scared:That's entirely for you to decide on Bill as you need balance the points I've outlined against having another piece of equipment.
I got one too. How do we hack ?It starts at Reply #785 but this is only for BW.
Things did get weird when I turned on all 4 channels and had a 280mhz signal into channel 1, it really didn't like that, bad voltage readings, and frequency measurement, but, thats probably not unexpected.
?generally:
Independent confirmation that the software modification provides the claimed 200 MHz bandwidth upgrade. All measurements taken at 0dBm input signal with the same scope.
100 MHz signal has 1 V peak to peak amplitude
235 MHz signal has 0.700 V peak to peak amplitude
This corresponds to a 3dB point of 235 MHz, well beyond the 1104X-E's claimed 100 MHz bandwidth, and in line with the 1204X-E's 200 MHz bandwidth.
Pictures attached
This correspondds around -3dB compared to 100MHz level as reference. ... yes, it tell that it is now different compared to original.
But...
0dBm in 50ohm system is: 223.6mVrms (632.4mVp-p) 1Vp-p in 50 ohm system is 3.98dBm
And now, when you get 1Vpp using 100MHz and generator set fore 0dBm it tells that "some things are wrong".
I can not see 50ohm termination in oscilloscope input!
Generator output impedance is 50ohm. Coaxial also 50ohm. This transmission line need end with 50ohm impedance. You can test it without termination. Start from example 1MHz and slowly rise freq up to example 300MHz... you get many highs and lows due to reflection between scope input and generator output depending cable travel time. It is now also depending your cable length now what reading you get with different frequencies.
;)
i could swear mine did a bit better... I'll have to re-measure now.
my generator only goes to 280 though.
be careful. i find that most signal generators aren't exactly flat on their outputs either. so double confirm you're getting out what you expect.
i double check mine with an SA i have.
So I must say that I am very impressed with this scope, especially with the extended bandwidth. Definitely an amazing value for the price.While that's not a bad idea, lighting in a workplace present or not could effect the usability of dual illumination of buttons. I suspect it couldn't be done with SW but we'd have to check the front panel HW to know for sure.
One thing that I have noticed is that when I am using multiple channels, I would really like to have the channel buttons for each channel being displayed to be lit up, e.g. if I am measuring waveforms with channels 2 and 3, I would like the physical buttons to be lit up for channels 2 and 3. I realize that this might conflict with fact that the active channel is lit up, but perhaps the active channel button could cycle between a bright and dim state to accommodate that feature.
Something that Chinese scopes like this often omit is to be able to have the zero-reference at the left or right (1 div from edge) of the screen as additional options to having it at the the centre.
You are almost always most interested in what happens before OR after the trigger, so these make more sense than having it at the centre.
Thanks to the community for the amazing reviews, updates and general info about this scope. Is there a manual which specifically addresses the 1x04 4-channel models? All I can find on the web is a 1x02 series manual which has been edited to include a few references to the 4-channel series.Yep, the US site hasn't been updated with the latest version of the manual but it's available from the Shenzhen site even though the URL appears to indicate otherwise.
I know 90% of the details are the same, but there are a few idiosyncracies of managing the shared vertical controls which are puzzling me and aren't talked about in the manual (which assumes separate vertical controls for each channel).
Hi,I know there are occasions when a STOP, Single or screenshot displays things that take some understanding so just trying to find a reason for what you see:
I wonder what I am observing here - a bug in the latest stock firmware (7.0.6.1 25R2) or something else. I noticed that every time when I zoom in (change vertical sensitivity) on the recorded signal it looks quite noisy. Eventually I simplified the test to avoid any ambiguity and this is the result:
My question is - what is this wrong with displaying the previously recorded signal when the vertical sensitivity has been changed ?
Thanks!
Could the the noise you see on Ch1 be related to the MCU clock ?:-//
I know there are occasions when a STOP, Single or screenshot displays things that take some understandingAgree, and knowing that this is why I spent some time on Sunday evening to make it easy to understand and what is more easy to reproduce.
Hi,
I wonder what I am observing here - a bug in the latest stock firmware (7.0.6.1 25R2) or something else. I noticed that every time when I zoom in (change vertical sensitivity) on the recorded signal it looks quite noisy. Eventually I simplified the test to avoid any ambiguity and this is the result:
a) the signal source (MCU) with stable power supply generates 50 pulses. The channel 4 monitors power line. The SDS1204X-E is single trigger mode, 5V/div, the signal is applied to channel 1
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=472022;image)
b)now lets change the scale to 1V/div - the signal looks quite noisy and I know that this is not true.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=472028;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=472034;image)
c) another recording of the same signal, SDS1204X-E is in single trigger mode, 1V/div, the signal looks as it should be. The only difference a c is the vertical sensitivity.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=472040;image)
My question is - what is this wrong with displaying the previously recorded signal when the vertical sensitivity has been changed ?
Thanks!
Before I start tell basic fundamentals how digital oscilloscope works (and what you have meet here) I want you tell me why your first image display 20MSa/s because if you did as you tell, this 20MSa/s with 14Mpts is not possible at all when t/div is 100us/s. Is it possible you have captured it using 50ms/div and after then zoomed in? What other things, if any, you coincidentally forget to tell?
Is it so that everything user do not understand is the manufacturer's fault?If I could suggest then I would suggest that you reread my original post which started from the sentence "I wonder what I am observing here - a bug in the latest stock firmware (7.0.6.1 25R2) or something else." Where have I said about "manufacturer's fault? in assertive manner :-//
I can give one tip first. ADC is 8bit.
In the main, this is a problem in education, not in the oscilloscope.
Here we can work together to study, shorter and longer courses about basic fundamentals of oscilloscopes.
Before I start tell basic fundamentals how digital oscilloscope worksNo need, thanks. Now I know that the used ADC is 8 bit and this is probably the culprit. Why probably? Because like I already mentioned I think the ADC resolution is not the only factor that matters in this case.
So I must say that I am very impressed with this scope, especially with the extended bandwidth. Definitely an amazing value for the price.While that's not a bad idea, lighting in a workplace present or not could effect the usability of dual illumination of buttons. I suspect it couldn't be done with SW but we'd have to check the front panel HW to know for sure.
One thing that I have noticed is that when I am using multiple channels, I would really like to have the channel buttons for each channel being displayed to be lit up, e.g. if I am measuring waveforms with channels 2 and 3, I would like the physical buttons to be lit up for channels 2 and 3. I realize that this might conflict with fact that the active channel is lit up, but perhaps the active channel button could cycle between a bright and dim state to accommodate that feature.
So I must say that I am very impressed with this scope, especially with the extended bandwidth. Definitely an amazing value for the price.While that's not a bad idea, lighting in a workplace present or not could effect the usability of dual illumination of buttons. I suspect it couldn't be done with SW but we'd have to check the front panel HW to know for sure.
One thing that I have noticed is that when I am using multiple channels, I would really like to have the channel buttons for each channel being displayed to be lit up, e.g. if I am measuring waveforms with channels 2 and 3, I would like the physical buttons to be lit up for channels 2 and 3. I realize that this might conflict with fact that the active channel is lit up, but perhaps the active channel button could cycle between a bright and dim state to accommodate that feature.
Personally I would be against of such modification, I really like the way the channel button's logic works right now. What would the proposed change give? To indicate what channels are activate? But there are channel indicators on the screen, plus in some situations (depends on the used trigger mode) the visible signals (in different color) immediately give you the idea what channels are enabled. The situation would be different if they have not used multiplexed vertical controls but we have what we have.
[ It is my opinion that it can be easily missed that the channel has been turned on. I have attached a copy of an image demonstrating this scenario in this message.
[ It is my opinion that it can be easily missed that the channel has been turned on. I have attached a copy of an image demonstrating this scenario in this message.
Hi SMB784,
could you please double check if you forgot to attach the aforementioned image?
Thanks!
As you wrote earlier:[ It is my opinion that it can be easily missed that the channel has been turned on. I have attached a copy of an image demonstrating this scenario in this message.
Hi SMB784,
could you please double check if you forgot to attach the aforementioned image?
Thanks!
Yep sorry just attached it!
I realize that after a large number of hours working with this device that this issue may be mitigated by experienceThis is the key here, but not a 'large number of hours', only a little time to look at the display with a little more analytical mind. ;)
As you wrote earlier:QuoteI realize that after a large number of hours working with this device that this issue may be mitigated by experienceThis is the key here, but not a 'large number of hours', only a little time to look at the display with a little more analytical mind. ;)
Other than the 2 indicators you've mentioned (zero level marker and channel ON box) there's also the zero level indicator in the channel box that when compared with the V/div setting indicates the waveform will obviously be off the display. When you find yourself in this situation a press of the Position control returns the active channel to the 0V position to where you can place it where it suits best.
Much of this is just familiarity with the UI, is it right or wrong or just another way to do the same operations as any other DSO ? They are all different in some way or another.
Compared to the other scope images you've posted I ask which has the most prominent active channel box on the display ?
:)As you wrote earlier:QuoteI realize that after a large number of hours working with this device that this issue may be mitigated by experienceThis is the key here, but not a 'large number of hours', only a little time to look at the display with a little more analytical mind. ;)
Other than the 2 indicators you've mentioned (zero level marker and channel ON box) there's also the zero level indicator in the channel box that when compared with the V/div setting indicates the waveform will obviously be off the display. When you find yourself in this situation a press of the Position control returns the active channel to the 0V position to where you can place it where it suits best.
Much of this is just familiarity with the UI, is it right or wrong or just another way to do the same operations as any other DSO ? They are all different in some way or another.
Compared to the other scope images you've posted I ask which has the most prominent active channel box on the display ?
I definitely concur that after a few days/weeks of familiarity that one becomes used to looking for active channels in the channel box, however there are a few things that I will point out.
The first and foremost of these is the fact that in a display a little redundancy goes a long way when it comes to ease of use. In this situation, nothing is sacrificed and in order to further emphasize the channels being used in an obvious and unambiguous way.
Secondly, there is the visibility aspect. It is difficult to see the on screen channel indicators from a distance beyond a couple feet. This is especially problematic when you have less than four but more than one channel activated, as it is possible to see that two/three channels are on from the channel box but it's difficult to tell which ones specifically are active. A lighted button for each active channel would make this completely unambiguous at any distance or viewing angle.
Finally, there is the mainstream appeal factor. You sacrifice nothing in opting for this feature and it makes your scope more familiar to those who are used to other competing scopes, which may improve your appeal.
Regardless it's not a huge deal, and I do love the scope, but the OCD in me made me bring it up, especially given that it is a feature that I know and love after having used scopes from just about every manufacturer there is
:)
It's nice to have a discussion where we can explore POV's and I fully get what you're asking here but I'd ask that if all active channels ON/OFF buttons were lit, how could the user know which one was active for the vertical controls ?
Would you have to press one again to set it to the vertical controls ?
This is what 17_29bis was meaning when he said he thought the existing channel management/indication logic was good.
Others ?
I'm a bit confused about the proposed use case: measure a non-active channel that is also off-screen ? Is there a "non" too many ?
Regarding measuring off-screen waveforms, how well does that actually work ? I would expect the scope to set the ADC range to cover mainly the screen, so the measured signal may be clipped or suffer other distortions ? Or does the Siglent let you choose screen position and DC offset independently ?
I'm a bit confused about the proposed use case: measure a non-active channel that is also off-screen ? Is there a "non" too many ?
Regarding measuring off-screen waveforms, how well does that actually work ? I would expect the scope to set the ADC range to cover mainly the screen, so the measured signal may be clipped or suffer other distortions ? Or does the Siglent let you choose screen position and DC offset independently ?
I'm a bit confused about the proposed use case: measure a non-active channel that is also off-screen ? Is there a "non" too many ?
Regarding measuring off-screen waveforms, how well does that actually work ? I would expect the scope to set the ADC range to cover mainly the screen, so the measured signal may be clipped or suffer other distortions ? Or does the Siglent let you choose screen position and DC offset independently ?
Exactly my thought. If my memory serves me well someone (the one who knows the ropes) on this forum already said that if the oscillogram/waveform does not fit the screen then it's most likely / almost guarantied that the measurements on this channel will be incorrect i.e. it has no practical use.
Here these ramp images.
Here these ramp images.
Thanks a lot ! These images show very clearly what I suspected would go wrong when pushing these limits. SMB784's use case may still work, but would require prior characterization of scope performance for the exact set of settings to be used.
By the way, I find it interesting that one can already see a hint of non-linearity in the top and bottom parts of image 178. That shows how narrow the margins really are.
Fun ideas for when someone gets around to writing alternative firmware for a scope:
- add optional warnings when waveforms get clipped, especially if measurements are active that would be directly affected,
- if moving parts of a waveform with high distortion onto the screen, visually indicate that these parts can't be trusted,
- add (optional) auto-ranging of front end configuration to capture entire amplitude,
- allow manual control of ADC of front end configuration, including separate control for DC offset and screen position,
- per-channel intensity control so that one can just hide active channels one doesn't want to look at (i.e., the real issue SMB784 is trying to solve).
Especially the first two could help less experienced users in situations where the scope is doing something that's very different from what they think it should be doing.
rf-loop:
R&S RTB2k (and I assume their higher end siblings) do the first three of these ideas. You get little red arrows on the channel info bar when clipping (pointing up, down or both depending on clipping direction), a hard cut-off edge to the waveform in orange when moving it up/down the screen after capture and measurements will show "clipping+" or "clipping-" when used on a clipped waveform.
Definitely agree about being able to decouple ADC range from 1:1 mapping to screen display range - some scopes allow for the ADC range to cover a smaller portion of the screen so that you can "stack" waveforms for better visibility without reducing the captured resolution, but these scopes seem to be few and far between (I think the new Tek scopes do this, but others have in the past too despite the Tek marketing droids claiming it as revolutionary).
SMB784:
Again comparing to the RTB2k (and also the new Tek scopes) - this does what you want (enabled channels have lit LEDs behind their respective panel buttons), but this scope also has the ability to light up the knobs with the currently selected channel's colour (via RGB LEDs behind the panel). This means that you can tell BOTH which channels are on and which channel is currently selected for adjustment - unfortunately hard to do without the multicoloured LED thing or referring to the screen. Without this it's always going to be a compromise as to how the use the channel button LEDs - it's never going to be right for everyone. Both of my examples are well above the Siglent price point though (and have their own quirks) so I think it's hard to criticise a few compromises and limitations like this!
I'm just using it for a screenshot because I can go to my upstairs computer and capture without fussing around with a USB drive; all my operations were done from the front panel.Hmmm
The problem with reducing sensitivity is that when I turned down sensitivity on CH3-4 for this test, the Math waveform degraded substantially. IMHO it's using the lower values (post-attenuation) to calculate the waveform and if the amplitude of the source channels displayed is too low, the Math waveform suffers badly from bit truncation. I can post an example of this if it's not clear what I'm describing.
Meanwhile, I found that turning the trace brightness down affects everything except the Math waveform, so that is a workable alternative - again, unless I am overlooking an option.
No, I've tried setting the timebase to extreme values and it doesn't change at all. It really does look like the Math function is working with too little vertical resolution on the source waveforms. At the sensitivity I'm using here they look pretty pixilated as well, though the input signal is fine.Actually you've gone the other way to what I meant. :)
No, I've tried setting the timebase to extreme values and it doesn't change at all. It really does look like the Math function is working with too little vertical resolution on the source waveforms. At the sensitivity I'm using here they look pretty pixilated as well, though the input signal is fine.
2) So I can't move the waveforms offscreen and if they're onscreen the display gets really cluttered. For some types of analysis, I really don't want to see CH3-4 on the screen - it prevents me from getting a good look at the output; however,
Is the SAG1021 the only option compatible with the bode plotting, or can it be used with other siglent AWG's?
very cool :-+ :-+Is the SAG1021 the only option compatible with the bode plotting, or can it be used with other siglent AWG's?
I believe any Siglent AWG's will work. I'm using an SDG1062X, no license needed either :)
I no longer have any pre X model AWG so I can't say for certain but as far as we know all Siglent AWG's can be tethered to SDS1*04X-E models to perform Bode plots.very cool :-+ :-+Is the SAG1021 the only option compatible with the bode plotting, or can it be used with other siglent AWG's?
I believe any Siglent AWG's will work. I'm using an SDG1062X, no license needed either :)
i count find any write-up on it on siglents site.
i wonder if its just the X series AWG's?
anyone have problems with long PSK's on wifi?So I'm guessing you can't connect.
I am using a long PSK ~25 characters long with spaces in it, and it doesn't seem to be working.
So I'm guessing you can't connect.it's finding the access point, no problems.
Is WiFi finding your access point with no problem ?
If you have more than one be sure to select the correct one before keying in the PSK password.
And just to check, which model USB dongle are you using ?
Thanks.So I'm guessing you can't connect.it's finding the access point, no problems.
Is WiFi finding your access point with no problem ?
If you have more than one be sure to select the correct one before keying in the PSK password.
And just to check, which model USB dongle are you using ?
yes, connecting to the correct one.
usb dongle is TL-WN725N
additional info.OK so it would seem you have the PSK character set correct.
so i created a guest network with a short password, and still, it didn't work.
i changed the guest network from WPA2 to WPA, and it connects. unfortunately, the guest network is isolated and only usable for internet access, so it's not a solution
so its coming funky with it authenticating/connecting via WPA2.
i must have 30+ devices on my network all connecting via wpa2, so i am fairly confident it is not a router issue.
OK so it would seem you have the PSK character set correct.
Hmmm
From the datasheet:
802.11b/g/n, WPA-PSK, the adapter must be supplied by Siglent to ensure working. (yeah right, we know the gold version works !)
Does your adapter have a silver body or gold ?
The gold body TL-WN725N on the box lists WPA-PSK and WPA2-PSK capability.
The gold body version was originally the only one supported however recent FW changes allowed for silver body TL-WN725N usage too.
Interesting, anyone else ?
anyone have problems with long PSK's on wifi?There is a bug with network SSIDs which contain spaces. The scope will see this network but won't be able to connect to it.
I am using a long PSK ~25 characters long with spaces in it, and it doesn't seem to be working.
Another way to tell the user that the trigger is basically disabled is to make the trigger info box or the trigger level icon or the button blink (red color is great for this purpose) to immediately inform the user that the trigger is assigned to the disabled channel.Actually, if considering colors for indication of statuses, red isn't great for that particular purpose.
Hello,All things to new users of DSO's are confusing !
I noticed a couple of things that can be confusing to new users who just started using the device.
Other than that, in general, it would be helpful if a scope would indicate any kind of reason why something would not work (be it signal out of range, trigger channel being off, or edge trigger being driven by input set to ground, whatnot, etc.), if and when the scope can detect such a situation. I tend to bump into "why does it not show the stuff" or "why is it not triggering, signal goes right there" situations almost every time I use my scope. Sometimes wasting tens of minutes to finally figure out some obscure setting buried deep somewhere, which I had perhaps tried a little earlier and forgot I changed it.
We must remember the most powerful tool in oscilloscope use is the ..................... TRIGGER !
Learning how to use it, assign it and its advanced features are mandatory to competent use of a scope, any scope.
This is why the Autoset button is added.
That surly will be of interest to the community.Plotting bode plot with a non-Siglent AWG is possible with a protocol translation software.QuoteIf it is to drive a non-Siglent AWG, maybe they can charge for it.Maybe ? :-//
It's very unlikely command protocols will work with other brands.
When doing Bode plots the AWG is swept through many frequencies/second so commands must be correct.
At certain point after getting the SDG1204X-E oscilloscope I wanted to know if it might be possible to use the bode plot function with a non-Siglent waveform generator.
After some researching and fuzzing I wrote a program in Python which acts as a small server. The oscilloscope connects to it using LAN and the program makes it think that it communicates with a genuine Siglent AWG. The program extracts the commands sent by the scope to the generator, parses them and translates to the command set, that the connected to the PC non-Siglent AWG is able to understand.
The video shows bode plot of an LPF with R=1kOhm and C=0.22μF. On the left you may see my program running on a netbook. For the first try I took the well known JDS6600 generator which is sold on eBay/AliExpress. Later I'll add drivers for two more AWG models.QuoteI hope to have during the next weeks enough free time to publish the program on GitHub with detailed description on how it works.Great work and looking forward to your further efforts. :-+
Just revisiting my wifi WPA2 issue.
does anyone have their wifi adapter working with WPA2 (not WPA)
Very interesting. I'll see if I can run a test with a simple password.Thanks and if you can then add a space into it like when you had problems earlier.
Very interesting. I'll see if I can run a test with a simple password.
:) same here lastest fw / root pw, and I'm a and old IT guy ..Very interesting. I'll see if I can run a test with a simple password.
Probably worth noting that I'm running the latest official firmware/software, PLUS the firmware that changes the root pw.
My WiFi is Ubiquiti Unifi series, too, just for more information.
I'm a lifelong IT guy, so can help in any way you need
:) same here lastest fw / root pw, and I'm a and old IT guy ..
Bob Sava worked around this by adding an external WiFi module connected to the LAN port.:) same here lastest fw / root pw, and I'm a and old IT guy ..
Is it possible to modify files in the RFS to allow third party wifi dongles without having the official software key?
The forum software is quite a PITA when you need to search the thread...
At the moment, what is the status of hacking these to unlock options? ex. AWG, Wifi module support.
The forum software is quite a PITA when you need to search the thread...
At the moment, what is the status of hacking these to unlock options? ex. AWG, Wifi module support.
Yeah, it isn't the most user friendly. The convention has usually been a thread on the device then a separate thread for the hacks to the device. Check here for the answers you seek:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-hack-to-200mhz-and-full-options/msg1664507/#msg1664507 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-hack-to-200mhz-and-full-options/msg1664507/#msg1664507)
Thanks Bill, I move over there.
BTW, I own an actual SDS1204X-E... I do want to open up the options but I can't find the firmware for the 204 anywhere.
Don't understand the confusion.
The SDS1x04X-E range has all the same FW. (product_id 13501)
[Suggestion]Very good idea. :-+
Suggestion for new SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E feature:
For Measure: in addition to channels CH1, CH2, CH3 and CH4 add an additional channel named Current.
Current is the currently selected channel (selected via the Channel Buttons).
This way Measured Items can be simply displayed for each channel by simply switching the currently selected channel via the channel buttons, without having to change the source and having to add items for that source each time.
Similarly, when setting Source to Current and selecting 'All Measure On', it should display all measured items for the 'currently selected channel' (the channel selected via the channel buttons).
This makes it possible to quickly switch the source channel via the channel buttons, without having to change the channel via 'Source' in the menu (which is slow and does not allow to quickly switch between measurements per channel).
Very good idea. :-+
All 3 of your suggestions have been forwarded to the X-E product manager.
If Selected was used instead of Current there could be less resultant confusion.
If possible would be great to have more than 4 measure element at the same time without using the all measure on feature.This has been asked about before and I have given some thoughts.
If possible would be great to have more than 4 measure element at the same time without using the all measure on feature.This has been asked about before and I have given some thoughts.
Siglent has always tried to keep the main display area clean and uncluttered (All Measure excluded) so to display 4+ could go against what they have tried to maintain, a clean clear display for the most part.
So how to display more than 4 ?
I think a solution might be to enable 4+ only when the Menu is hidden so the addition measurements can be placed into the vacant Menu area.
I have not discussed this with Siglent yet so I ask for your support for Siglent to fully consider a method to display 4+ measurements.
If possible would be great to have more than 4 measure element at the same time without using the all measure on feature.This has been asked about before and I have given some thoughts.
Siglent has always tried to keep the main display area clean and uncluttered (All Measure excluded) so to display 4+ could go against what they have tried to maintain, a clean clear display for the most part.
So how to display more than 4 ?
I think a solution might be to enable 4+ only when the Menu is hidden so the addition measurements can be placed into the vacant Menu area.
I have not discussed this with Siglent yet so I ask for your support for Siglent to fully consider a method to display 4+ measurements.
No, not always as it can be taken by Decoding when the Menu is hidden.If possible would be great to have more than 4 measure element at the same time without using the all measure on feature.This has been asked about before and I have given some thoughts.
Siglent has always tried to keep the main display area clean and uncluttered (All Measure excluded) so to display 4+ could go against what they have tried to maintain, a clean clear display for the most part.
So how to display more than 4 ?
I think a solution might be to enable 4+ only when the Menu is hidden so the addition measurements can be placed into the vacant Menu area.
I have not discussed this with Siglent yet so I ask for your support for Siglent to fully consider a method to display 4+ measurements.
yes.. using the menu area for displaying 4+ measures would be great in particular because when the menu is hidden that space is always free
No, not always as it can be taken by Decoding when the Menu is hidden.If possible would be great to have more than 4 measure element at the same time without using the all measure on feature.This has been asked about before and I have given some thoughts.
Siglent has always tried to keep the main display area clean and uncluttered (All Measure excluded) so to display 4+ could go against what they have tried to maintain, a clean clear display for the most part.
So how to display more than 4 ?
I think a solution might be to enable 4+ only when the Menu is hidden so the addition measurements can be placed into the vacant Menu area.
I have not discussed this with Siglent yet so I ask for your support for Siglent to fully consider a method to display 4+ measurements.
yes.. using the menu area for displaying 4+ measures would be great in particular because when the menu is hidden that space is always free
But the engineers can have Decode override Measures when it is active.......so we can't have everything. :(
Have a fiddle with your scopes guys and tell us what suits you all best.
The engineers will look at suggestions and decide on the best way to implement it.
But the more and better info they get always helps.
[Suggestion]I agree with tautech that this is a very good idea, have stolen (quoted) it as a suggestion in the R&S thread too. Thanks!
Suggestion for new SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E feature:
For Measure: in addition to channels CH1, CH2, CH3 and CH4 add an additional channel namedCurrentSelected.
Selected is the currently selected channel (selected via the Channel Buttons).
This way Measured Items can be simply displayed for each channel by simply switching the currently selected channel via the channel buttons, without having to change the source and having to add items for that source each time.
Similarly, when setting Source to Selected and selecting 'All Measure On', it should display all measured items for the 'currently selected channel' (the channel selected via the channel buttons).
This makes it possible to quickly switch the source channel via the channel buttons, without having to change the channel via 'Source' in the menu (which is slow and does not allow to quickly switch between measurements per channel).
2018-07-31 updated: Changed Current to Selected.
nvm, had to update the OS as well... version is now 7.1.6.1.25 R2 instead of 7.0.6.1.25 R2.All OK now ?
On my SDS1104X-E I want to capture 3 channels over time and plot the results.
I want to capture frequency on one channel and DC voltage on the other two.
I want to plot the results at about a 1 min resolution over a few hours.
how can I do this?
Thanks
nvm, had to update the OS as well... version is now 7.1.6.1.25 R2 instead of 7.0.6.1.25 R2.
Hi and welcome to the forum. The 2 models 1104X-E and 1204X-E share the same firmware and OS.
The latest firmware can be downloaded from here: https://www.siglenteu.com/download/6110/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/6110/) and the OS update from here: https://www.siglenteu.com/download/5934/. (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/5934/.)
Edit: Oh wait, there is no model 1004X-E, right?
Right!
yeah all good now, thanks! one probe seems to be defective, though. already got an RMA confirmation from batronix.nvm, had to update the OS as well... version is now 7.1.6.1.25 R2 instead of 7.0.6.1.25 R2.All OK now ?
The OS update is an important one and the web browser and remote command UI's have been updated.
Let us know if you're still having problems.
Great. :)yeah all good now, thanks! one probe seems to be defective, though. already got an RMA confirmation from batronix.nvm, had to update the OS as well... version is now 7.1.6.1.25 R2 instead of 7.0.6.1.25 R2.All OK now ?
The OS update is an important one and the web browser and remote command UI's have been updated.
Let us know if you're still having problems.
Bad 1x, 10x switch ?
PP510 or the PP215 ?
If I recall correctly, it is the PP510. Bad contact at the BNC connector. Most of the time I have to fiddle around to get a contact and then, when I touch the connector while it is connected to the scope, it sometimes loses contact and the signal is lost. Other probes work flawlessly on that channel so I suspect the probe to be defective (i.e. the BNC connector of the probe).
Have you tried swapping which channel it's connected to ?If I recall correctly, it is the PP510. Bad contact at the BNC connector. Most of the time I have to fiddle around to get a contact and then, when I touch the connector while it is connected to the scope, it sometimes loses contact and the signal is lost. Other probes work flawlessly on that channel so I suspect the probe to be defective (i.e. the BNC connector of the probe).
Happens to me with PP215 too. Always have to move/touch the bnc connector to get a stable signal.
sureI know, :) I can see that in your post.
Anybody else 17.5 Mpts @250MSa/s with the latest firmware and OS?
The exported CSV is 17.5 Mpts. This is the only sampling speed with 17.5 Mpts. Higher or lower sampling speed is 14 Mpts.
Btw. is there a setting to manually set the sampling speed? it is annoying to zoom out, take a single capture and zoom in again
Anybody else 17.5 Mpts @250MSa/s with the latest firmware and OS?
The exported CSV is 17.5 Mpts. This is the only sampling speed with 17.5 Mpts. Higher or lower sampling speed is 14 Mpts.
Btw. is there a setting to manually set the sampling speed? it is annoying to zoom out, take a single capture and zoom in again
Yes the displayed acquisition memory @250MSa/s is wrong, but I think it's just a cosmetic issue. Regarding the zoom in/out can you be more specific of what you are trying to achive?
Anybody else 17.5 Mpts @250MSa/s with the latest firmware and OS?
The exported CSV is 17.5 Mpts. This is the only sampling speed with 17.5 Mpts. Higher or lower sampling speed is 14 Mpts.
Btw. is there a setting to manually set the sampling speed? it is annoying to zoom out, take a single capture and zoom in again
Yes the displayed acquisition memory @250MSa/s is wrong, but I think it's just a cosmetic issue. Regarding the zoom in/out can you be more specific of what you are trying to achive?
Do you really know or do you just believe. Or is it somehow fun to talk "trumpths" aka alternative truths instead of truths (facts).
There is nothing wrong and 17.5M points is right, exactly.
It can also calculate simply. 14 Horizontal divs, 5ms/div and 250MSa/s. Just basic school math.
250000000/(1000/5)*14
And even better, checking facts from stored acquisition what do not leave any suspects.:
Scope: SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E Version 7.1.6.1.25R2
Setup: One single acquisition. Ch1 on, others off, 5ms/div, 250MSa/s, displayed memory length 17.5M
Stored binary file to USB (17536160 bytes):
Read using hex editor.
First data byte position (Starting from byte 0)
0x8D40
Last data byte position
0x10B949F
It is also last byte in file.
0x10B949F - 0x8D40 = 0x10B075F (data length 17499999+1=17500000 byte)
Btw, same setup .CSV size is ~400M as also Matlab .DAT file.
And if do not believe math etc, also can zoom in and manually calculate every 17500000 data points but it takes while... ;)
Anybody else 17.5 Mpts @250MSa/s with the latest firmware and OS?
The exported CSV is 17.5 Mpts. This is the only sampling speed with 17.5 Mpts. Higher or lower sampling speed is 14 Mpts.
Btw. is there a setting to manually set the sampling speed? it is annoying to zoom out, take a single capture and zoom in again
Yes the displayed acquisition memory @250MSa/s is wrong, but I think it's just a cosmetic issue. Regarding the zoom in/out can you be more specific of what you are trying to achive?
Do you really know or do you just believe. Or is it somehow fun to talk "trumpths" aka alternative truths instead of truths (facts).
There is nothing wrong and 17.5M points is right, exactly.
It can also calculate simply. 14 Horizontal divs, 5ms/div and 250MSa/s. Just basic school math.
250000000/(1000/5)*14
And even better, checking facts from stored acquisition what do not leave any suspects.:
Scope: SDS1104X-E/SDS1204X-E Version 7.1.6.1.25R2
Setup: One single acquisition. Ch1 on, others off, 5ms/div, 250MSa/s, displayed memory length 17.5M
Stored binary file to USB (17536160 bytes):
Read using hex editor.
First data byte position (Starting from byte 0)
0x8D40
Last data byte position
0x10B949F
It is also last byte in file.
0x10B949F - 0x8D40 = 0x10B075F (data length 17499999+1=17500000 byte)
Btw, same setup .CSV size is ~400M as also Matlab .DAT file.
And if do not believe math etc, also can zoom in and manually calculate every 17500000 data points but it takes while... ;)
Sorry about the confusion. I have the same scope and saw it but didn't do the math. I was just referring to the specs which say max 14Mpts per channel and the 17.5 number looks odd at first.
Another thing regarding binary files. Siglent has a guide on their website: https://www.siglentamerica.com/operating-tip/extract-data-binary-file-sds2000x-sds1000x/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/operating-tip/extract-data-binary-file-sds2000x-sds1000x/) but it does not match what the actual file looks like. Do you had more success reading the file header?
For example 0x14 is 03 and according to siglents guide there should be mso_ch_open_state[0] (0 or 1 allowed).
I'm considering buying SDS1104X-E, but just noticed in the datasheet that UART triggering (so probably also decoding) works only to 334 kBaud.You asked the same question last December here:
I'm wondering if this is a marketing decision, or just they didn't think anyone needs more than that?
Modern MCUs can go over 10MBaud (for example STM32F4 has 11.25MBaud UART), so 334k is a really low limit.
Thanks, tautech, I completely forgot about that :) 5M is already quite decent.Sorry, like I said previously I don't have a unit available to check for you but should have some later this coming week. Others might like to check what the latest FW offers.
I've been jutst looking at the datasheet and it still mentions only 334k.
BTW, I've also asked about pulse count measurement and N-th edge trigger. Any news about that?
I like to use a pulse count when debugging MCU firmware.
I know that event count can be some substitution for pulse count, but I think it is limited only to 700 events, which is quite low when you have 14 Meg of "Curr".
Does it make sense to spend the hundred bucks and bump up to the PP215's from the PP510's?
which is quite low when you have 14 Meg of "Curr".
which is quite low when you have 14 Meg of "Curr".
Hahahahaha, I hate that stupid label! :-DD
ntpd -n -d -p 171.66.97.126
ntpd: sending query to 171.66.97.126
ntpd: reply from 171.66.97.126: offset:+1536499839.691361 delay:0.052936 status:0x24 strat:2 refid:0xf0f4cf82 rootdelay:0.154345 reach:0x01
ntpd: setting time to 2018-09-09 13:33:03.042840 (offset +1536499839.688809s)
cd /usr/bin/siglent
mount -o rw,remount .
cat >aaa.app <<END
#!/bin/sh
ntpd -p 171.66.97.126
exec "$@"
END
chmod 755 aaa.app
sync
reboot
While there is no RTC in the 1x04X-E (I don't know about the 1202X-E), the scope cannot keep the time when powered down. However, if it has Internet access, it can acquire accurate time from there, using NTP.
Very cool.
Thanks very much for sharing this and writing it up. :clap:
Forwarded to Siglent for them to hopefully implement ASAP.
Add Time and Date support:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1756706/#msg1756706 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1756706/#msg1756706)
Improve the readability of overlays
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1713224/#msg1713224 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1713224/#msg1713224)
@wpwrak has suggested an implementation for my first two bullets, for which thanks. That solution however requires hacking the scope and is not integrated into the UI. It also does not implement the features from my last two bullets.
I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).
I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).Keeping proper ntp synchronization, although simple (the support is there, in the Linux system they use) is maybe overkill.
1. You can, ATM, use the SCPI SHELLCMD command and as a parameter pass your NTP string command. This doesnt require any "hacking".
2. After sync the clock, you can kill the NTP daemon.
SHELLCMD ntpd -q -p 171.66.97.126
Code: [Select]SHELLCMD ntpd -q -p 171.66.97.126
SHELLCMD $(ntpd -q -p 171.66.97.126)
@wpwrak has suggested an implementation for my first two bullets, for which thanks. That solution however requires hacking the scope and is not integrated into the UI. It also does not implement the features from my last two bullets.
I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).
1. You can, ATM, use the SCPI SHELLCMD command and as a parameter pass your NTP string command. This doesnt require any "hacking".
2. After sync the clock, you can kill the NTP daemon.
Although it gives a little more work everytime you want to save files, another option is:
Since to save the files you need to have the USB drive inserted, one can run a script (residing in the USB) only when you want to do a "save files" session.
For that, you only have to create a proper script that activates the ntpd and I can make an .ADS from it.
How to: With that, you can run an "Update" with that .ADS just before doing the "save files" session. It takes 1 or 2 seconds and you're ready to save files with the proper datetime.
Benefit: This method, like the SHELLCMD, doesnt imply any changes to the scope's settings and is more complete than the SHELLCMD because you can execute a more complex script (launch NTPD, kill it, etc..).
Nice but I just want to press the 'On' button and then things should work without having to do any fancy stuff / perform manual actions etc. and without having to perform any actions on some PC.
That executes with root privilege?
Not just at boot time, but also whenever there has been no time synchronization after boot and a network cable is connected (if the device can detect such at runtime), or when it has been long enough since last sync (preferably adjustable period). The last case would handle (rare?) situations where the scope is being used 24/7 and never turned off or disconnected/reconnected to network, so the periodic resync prevents eventual drifting to get out of hand (assuming exact time is important).I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).Keeping proper ntp synchronization, although simple (the support is there, in the Linux system they use) is maybe overkill.
But just a ntpdate to set the proper date and time at boot time would be really useful. It would mean the files would be timestamped with a usable date and time, just like it had a RTC.
@wpwrak has suggested an implementation for my first two bullets, for which thanks. That solution however requires hacking the scope and is not integrated into the UI. It also does not implement the features from my last two bullets.
I.m.o. getting time from NTP server should not be done too frequent to minimize (inter)network traffic (unless the scope firmware is unable to maintain time accurately, which I doubt because operating the scope already requires precision timing but Siglent will know this best).
1. You can, ATM, use the SCPI SHELLCMD command and as a parameter pass your NTP string command. This doesnt require any "hacking".
2. After sync the clock, you can kill the NTP daemon.
Nice but I just want to press the 'On' button and then things should work without having to do any fancy stuff / perform manual actions etc. and without having to perform any actions on some PC.
Not just at boot time, but also whenever there has been no time synchronization after boot and a network cable is connected (if the device can detect such at runtime), or when it has been long enough since last sync (preferably adjustable period). The last case would handle (rare?) situations where the scope is being used 24/7 and never turned off or disconnected/reconnected to network, so the periodic resync prevents eventual drifting to get out of hand (assuming exact time is important).
Also, would be nice if the user has an option to configure the time server to be used. E.g. in some cases the LAN might not be connected to internet at all, and a local network time server would be used instead. Or, as I have noticed (only) couple times, the preconfigured time server has since vanished, or service has changed to only provide time for better tier clients (i.e. other time servers), not for ordinary end users.
I'm confused, you want a cheap and capable oscilloscope with all of the bells and whistles so you can fix and/or work on electronics, and yet you don't want to do anything to make your chosen device capable of the things you want it to do? That seems like a tall order.
What you have is a great device with lots of features that is still under development, and you have a dogged group of engineers and scientists (the people in this thread) who are dedicated to finding ways to make this device better at no additional cost to you. You have the solution to your problem in your hand, use it instead of complaining about how a device under development doesn't come with everything you want out of the box.
Add Time and Date support:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1756706/#msg1756706 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1756706/#msg1756706)
"... just for those people that are willing to connect their scopes to the net ..."
Unfortunately I see only very limited constructive suggestions for Siglent like the one below in this thread. Even while clearly marked as 'suggestions for new features', several people appear to have difficulty reading them and react to the latest posts in this thread instead.
...
I have many devices that require tweaks but I dislike managing them all manually and having to fix things again after the next software/firmware update. So I preferably want certain features to be supported by the manufacturer and supported in the UI, which is why I have made the efforts to add several suggestions for new features and reported a security bug in this thread.
So who is complaining here?
FYI my SDS1104X-E is @SDS1204X-E.
Sure but not everyone's is.
"With the WiFi this will be a good solution"
Requesting time and date from an NTP server via the network works for both wireless and wired network connections (my scope is connected wired to the network).
Is it the Siglent or the TP-Link TL-WN725N that gives the problem with spaces in the SSID?anyone have problems with long PSK's on wifi?There is a bug with network SSIDs which contain spaces. The scope will see this network but won't be able to connect to it.
I am using a long PSK ~25 characters long with spaces in it, and it doesn't seem to be working.
Siglent confirmed this bug but I don't know when it will be fixed.
My WiFi dongle was not supplied by Siglent and works fine with networks without spaces in SSIDs.
Is it the Siglent or the TP-Link TL-WN725N that gives the problem with spaces in the SSID?anyone have problems with long PSK's on wifi?There is a bug with network SSIDs which contain spaces. The scope will see this network but won't be able to connect to it.
I am using a long PSK ~25 characters long with spaces in it, and it doesn't seem to be working.
Siglent confirmed this bug but I don't know when it will be fixed.
My WiFi dongle was not supplied by Siglent and works fine with networks without spaces in SSIDs.
I once bought a TP-Link wireless router that didn't allow spaces in the SSID, when all my other devices did. Replaced it with a Netgear and all was well again.
Looking to get this scope and use that bode plotting feature but a bit confused on what configuration to get. You can get that SAG1021 AWG that plugs with usb and I suppose you need to buy a separate AWG licence also to use that dongle... But apparently you could get a siglent brand SDG (1032X?) external AWG that can also plug in with usb(?) and use the automated plotting feature without a licence? Some page stated that external AWG doesnt require a licence for some reason.
e. ok found some old comments, 1104X-E + SDG1032X should work together out of the box, nice.
New to scopes. Testing my new 1204x-e. What really makes think bad is the fact that just sitting scope on the bench is showing 20-30 mV on its outputs without probes connected.Welcome to the forum.
Is it for sure problem with mine example or might it be a problem with bad 220v line/ground?
Attch. 59-63 what I see on display of 1204 without probes or cables in it.
39-40 - what is seen in the "220v/50" line of my socket.
Please advice should I go back asap to the dealer and change this one example.
39-40 - what is seen in the "220v/50" line of my socket.Normal, the mains sine wave has been affected by other SMPS corrupting the waveform.
My machine showed 7.6.1.20.r3 on the screen.
so I am little bit confused is that lower or higher than 6.1.26 :) Depending on the logic of what way to read might be both.
Started mache to run for 30 min to make calibration. Actually, I have made it once after for sure few hours of runtime.
New to scopes. Testing my new 1204x-e. What really makes think bad is the fact that just sitting scope on the bench is showing 20-30 mV on its outputs without probes connected.
Is it for sure problem with mine example or might it be a problem with bad 220v line/ground?
Attch. 59-63 what I see on display of 1204 without probes or cables in it.
39-40 - what is seen in the "220v/50" line of my socket.
Please advice should I go back asap to the dealer and change this one example.
An up-to-date oscilloscope would display 7.6.1.26
7. Fixed the bug: The setting of Educational mode can’t be saved after power off.What is Educational mode? Where can I find it?
Don't know....I'll ask. :)7. Fixed the bug: The setting of Educational mode can’t be saved after power off.What is Educational mode? Where can I find it?
I installed the new firmware. The cursors label is still hard to read. Its transparency can be adjusted but it can't be set to 0% and the background color is too bright. It should be darker. I would also move it to a corner instead of the right middle point.
The problem isn't the transparency. Even if it were possible to make it completely transparent, some of the text would be unreadable in your example because it's the same color as the trace that's underneath.
What would it look like with full 1 pixel halo/outline?
The problem isn't the transparency. Even if it were possible to make it completely transparent, some of the text would be unreadable in your example because it's the same color as the trace that's underneath.
Reduced transparency with a dark background can solve this issue.
@tautechIn any detail, that's not available to me but as most are aware Siglent get numerous pointers to ideas/bugs and improvements suggested in this and their Siglent Support thread.
It would be useful if we could actually get some feedback from Siglent for our suggestions.
Whether Siglent has any plans to implement them and which (not).
There is nothing wrong with your SDS1204X-E (Regardless what firmware version you’re running).
It is an 8-bit DSO and one vertical division on the screen equals 25 LSB of the ADC. Now do the math…
At 1V/div, 1 LSB of the ADC equals 1/25V = 40mV.
It comes as no surprise that automatic measurements will always pick up at least 1LSB (peak to peak) since this is about the minimum noise generated by the ADC itself.
Change the vertical gain to 100mV/div and you’ll most likely get 4mV.
Try 1mv/div and you will get 40µV ADC noise, but actual reading will be more because at high sensitivities like this, noise from the frontend will contribute to the result.
Considering buying this scope, but wondering: is there any reason to hold off or wait on buying this scope? I.e., are there any hardware revisions that should be waited on, any downsides to current inventory, will the next hardware revision have some sort of improvement/benefit?We can already see revisions with different codes in the SN# compared to first units.
Has anyone managed to get WIFI working on this scope with a third party wifi adapter?
ive got a TP link TL-WN725N wifi adapter if i put it in the scope it detects it and i can scan for and detect available networks, but when i try to connect it fails after a few seconds.
Has anyone managed to get WIFI working on this scope with a third party wifi adapter?Confusingly I've had similar problems of late when previously none.
I've got a TP link TL-WN725N wifi adapter if i put it in the scope it detects it and i can scan for and detect available networks, but when i try to connect it fails after a few seconds.
Has anyone managed to get WIFI working on this scope with a third party wifi adapter?Does the SSID of your network have spaces? If yes, they are the problem.
ive got a TP link TL-WN725N wifi adapter if i put it in the scope it detects it and i can scan for and detect available networks, but when i try to connect it fails after a few seconds.
On the WIFI front - I found I needed to turn DHCP on to grab an IP (which I then set in my router) and then turn it off to keep those settings - otherwise the 1104XE was constantly disconnecting and reconnecting for some reason. Rock solid once DHCP turned off and the IP saved.
And why DHCP need be on in Oscilloscope? For what?DHCP client for obtaining an IP automatically.
I seem to remember better WiFi performance but in the intervening time since receiving my beta unit we've changed WiFi hardware.............but all our other devices still work OK. :-//While not a full match to symptoms (other devices would need to show some issues, too), and quite unlikely reason, there are some reports of certain new mobile phones causing problems with some wifi-routers, especially causing frequent disconnects with quick reconnects, even to other devices connected with that same router. Not going to go into details about that. But it gives an idea that as a means to remove some variables from the testing, perhaps temporarily relocate/turn off all other wifi devices.
Yes thanks, that path is certainly worth pursuing.I seem to remember better WiFi performance but in the intervening time since receiving my beta unit we've changed WiFi hardware.............but all our other devices still work OK. :-//While not a full match to symptoms (other devices would need to show some issues, too), and quite unlikely reason, there are some reports of certain new mobile phones causing problems with some wifi-routers, especially causing frequent disconnects with quick reconnects, even to other devices connected with that same router. Not going to go into details about that. But it gives an idea that as a means to remove some variables from the testing, perhaps temporarily relocate/turn off all other wifi devices.
And why DHCP need be on in Oscilloscope? For what?DHCP client for obtaining an IP automatically.
I needed to set my IP address rather than use DHCP (client). I did not understand from your posts if you were using DHCP or not in the settings.
I know my scope IP exactly. When I set scope IP I know it and it do not change until I change it and changing it need really heavy reason not just because some automatic is "fun".
Routers are other things... this is single oscilloscope standing alone and it have IP, known IP. Period. (in my case. ;) )
ETA: For clarify:
Perhaps next generation humans can give master to machines but as long as I live I give commands and take control over these machines what are under my control....
If anyone's got a memory dump from their SDS1000X-E and is interested in parsing it for license keys, I've written a simple Python function to do it. It works with all dumps from my 'scope (1104X-E), but I only have one. It'd be great to hear if it works for others.There's a thread dedicated to these things with others that have done similar:Code: [Select]import re
import string
def getkeys(scopeid, serialno, memdumpfile):
"""
Parse a memory dump from a Siglent 1000X-E oscilloscope and return a dict containing
licence keys for bandwidths and options. The 'activebw' key is the one that is currently
active in the 'scope (e.g. if the value of '100M' is the same as the value of 'activebw',
the oscilloscope is software locked to 100 MHz bandwidth)
"""
if len(scopeid) == 16 and set(scopeid) <= set(string.hexdigits):
scopeid = scopeid.lower().encode('utf-8')
else:
raise ValueError('Scope ID must be 16 hexadecimal characters (remove dashes).')
if len(serialno) == 14 and set(serialno) <= set(string.ascii_letters + string.digits):
serialno = serialno.upper().encode('utf-8')
else:
raise ValueError('Serial number must be 14 alphanumeric characters.')
f = open(memdumpfile, 'rb')
data = f.read()
f.close()
regex_bw = re.compile(scopeid + b'.*?'+ scopeid + b'.*?([0-9A-Z]{16}).*?([0-9A-Z]{16}).*?([0-9A-Z]{16}).*?([0-9A-Z]{16}).*?([0-9A-Z]{16})', re.DOTALL)
regex_opt = re.compile(serialno + b'.*?' + serialno + b'.*?([0-9A-Z]{48})', re.DOTALL)
key_bw = list([n.decode('utf-8') for n in re.findall(regex_bw, data)[0]])
key_opt = re.findall('.{16}', re.findall(regex_opt, data)[0].decode('utf-8'))
keys = {}
key_labels = ('100M', '200M', '50M', '70M', 'activebw', 'awg', 'wifi', 'mso')
keys.update(zip(key_labels, key_bw + key_opt))
return(keys)
The easiest way I've found to get a dump to parse is to run cat /dev/mem > /usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0/memdump.bin at a root prompt with a USB drive connected.
There's a thread dedicated to these things with others that have done similar:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/)
And why DHCP need be on in Oscilloscope? For what?DHCP client for obtaining an IP automatically.
I know my scope IP exactly. When I set scope IP I know it and it do not change until I change it and changing it need really heavy reason nost just because some automatic is "fun".
Routers are other things... this is single oscilloscope standing alone and it have IP, known IP. Period. (in my case. ;) )
A hands up please of those using the Siglent WiFi adapter TL‐WN725N.
Some reports on your experiences and range with this USB adapter please.
I bought a TP-Link wireless nano USB adapter (TL-WN725N V2) to replace a malfunctioning PCI wireless card on my desktop computer. When I plug the USB adapter, the system recognizes all available networks, but it won't connect. It asks me for my password, start connecting... and then my password again, as if I'd put a wrong one. But I'm sure the password is ok.
The PCI card has been removed.
I use Lubuntu 16.04.02, and have a dual boot with Windows 7. In windows the adapter works fine.
This is a constraint of the PSK type in the TP Link software Siglent has used for WiFi support in the SDS1kX-E models.A hands up please of those using the Siglent WiFi adapter TL‐WN725N.
Some reports on your experiences and range with this USB adapter please.
Regarding WiFi: Very unfortunately @Siglent still has not fixed the WiFi shared key bugs described in below linked post, while the issues should be very simple to fix.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1708814/?topicseen#msg1708814 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1708814/?topicseen#msg1708814)
Would it be possible to configure WiFi settings manually via SSH (on an enabled scope) and be able to successfully set a WPA2 PSK longer than the current (GUI?) limit of 20 characters (which is a bug)?
---===### SECURITY IS ESSENTIAL ###===---
This is a constraint of the PSK type in the TP Link software Siglent has used for WiFi support in the SDS1kX-E models.A hands up please of those using the Siglent WiFi adapter TL‐WN725N.
Some reports on your experiences and range with this USB adapter please.
Regarding WiFi: Very unfortunately @Siglent still has not fixed the WiFi shared key bugs described in below linked post, while the issues should be very simple to fix.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1708814/?topicseen#msg1708814 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1708814/?topicseen#msg1708814)
Would it be possible to configure WiFi settings manually via SSH (on an enabled scope) and be able to successfully set a WPA2 PSK longer than the current (GUI?) limit of 20 characters (which is a bug)?
---===### SECURITY IS ESSENTIAL ###===---
While researching my own WiFi issues I found this in the TP Link TL‐WN725N PDF users manual:
As for Key Index, you can select ASCII or Hexadecimal format from the drop-down list.
ASCII_64 - Please enter 5 ASCII characters.
ASCII_128 - Please enter 13 ASCII characters.
Hexadecimal_64 - Please enter 10 Hexadecimal digits (any combination of 0-9, a-f, A-F, excluded space).
Hexadecimal_128 - Please enter 26 Hexadecimal digits (any combination of 0-9, a-f, A-F, excluded space).
If you’re still using WEP then you are nearly as vulnerable to wireless hacking as you would be without having any encryption because WEP is easily cracked by even the most novice hacker using freely available tools found on the Internet.
Also, if it expects users to input hexadecimal (which indeed don't need spaces) for obsolete protocols, then the input field should still allow 26 characters/digits, not just 20. As bluejedi mentioned in that linked message, WPA2 PSK key length is 8-63 printable ASCII characters (passphrase), or 64 hex digits (PSK directly), so it should be even longer than 26.This is a constraint of the PSK type in the TP Link software Siglent has used for WiFi support in the SDS1kX-E models.A hands up please of those using the Siglent WiFi adapter TL‐WN725N.
Some reports on your experiences and range with this USB adapter please.
Regarding WiFi: Very unfortunately @Siglent still has not fixed the WiFi shared key bugs described in below linked post, while the issues should be very simple to fix.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1708814/?topicseen#msg1708814 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1708814/?topicseen#msg1708814)
Would it be possible to configure WiFi settings manually via SSH (on an enabled scope) and be able to successfully set a WPA2 PSK longer than the current (GUI?) limit of 20 characters (which is a bug)?
---===### SECURITY IS ESSENTIAL ###===---
While researching my own WiFi issues I found this in the TP Link TL‐WN725N PDF users manual:
As for Key Index, you can select ASCII or Hexadecimal format from the drop-down list.
ASCII_64 - Please enter 5 ASCII characters.
ASCII_128 - Please enter 13 ASCII characters.
Hexadecimal_64 - Please enter 10 Hexadecimal digits (any combination of 0-9, a-f, A-F, excluded space).
Hexadecimal_128 - Please enter 26 Hexadecimal digits (any combination of 0-9, a-f, A-F, excluded space).
This happens to me every time, ive even tried hot spotting my phone :(OK I think I have this WiFi stuff sorted.
This is a constraint of the PSK type in the TP Link software Siglent has used for WiFi support in the SDS1kX-E models.
What makes it even worse is that WiFi is a paid option on these scopes. A paid option that currently sucks in 2 areas:
Hmmm, one can only suspect the WiFi dongle coding Siglent has injected into their OS has been character # limited and in an email just sent I've asked them for info on any changes they are planning to address the issue you are having. Most of us don't need/want a long PSK but let's see what Siglent will reply about this.This is a constraint of the PSK type in the TP Link software Siglent has used for WiFi support in the SDS1kX-E models.
IIRC I have used the same TP-Link adapter on a Linux system and WiFi WPA2 passphrase longer than 20 characters.
It's difficult to believe that actual TP-Link hardware or software would not comply with common WiFi standards because that is essential for their core business.
Having said that, a 20-char passphrase should be more than enough to ensure your security.
Would it be possible to configure WiFi settings manually via SSH (on an enabled scope) and be able to successfully set a WPA2 PSK longer than the current (GUI?) limit of 20 characters (which is a bug)?
Hey Thanks, That was the issue, didnt think it would be an issue in 2018What was ?
It's accepted that a password of 8-9 characters should reasonably protect you from brute forcing at this point in time. About 20 characters should be more than enough for a thoroughly secure password. I do agree though, Siglent shouldn't limit you unnecessarily and should follow standards where applicable.
That's your opinion. A clause that many might argue and disagree with. This is why the specification defines a max length of 63 characters.
(Statements like above are the opposite of a motivation for Siglent to fix it).
The scope's (unnecessary) WiFi security related limitations should not dictate how to configure security settings on your standards compliant WiFi network.
And the scope should work on any standards compliant WiFi network, not only WiFi networks that have been (mis)configured to the scope's lack of support for common WiFi standards.
My 2¢
It's accepted that a password of 8-9 characters should reasonably protect you from brute forcing at this point in time. About 20 characters should be more than enough for a thoroughly secure password. I do agree though, Siglent shouldn't limit you unnecessarily and should follow standards where applicable.Mr. Scram, not knowing your background, just to make sure, you are aware that not all secrets/keys are "passwords" (sequences of fully random and independent characters), per se? And also that the effectiveness of the bits in the secret can vary depending on the use case? For example, consider the differences in the key length recommendations between AES (e.g. 256) and RSA (2048), etc. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_size).
Note that "passphrase" typically does not mean the same type of content as "password";
That brings another question, why should we comply with something that (apparently) doesn't make sense just because somebody assigned it a "standard" status?
If anyone knows where is my thinking error, please correct me.
Note that "passphrase" typically does not mean the same type of content as "password";
We all undestand what we are talking about. My final cents in this OT:
What I said was simply this: a 43-char (upper+lower+digits) pass can be more secure that any 32 8-bit symbols key.
The problem with using a common phrase it's the user's fault! No standard says to do that. Using 63-char quotes from the national anthem might be as unsafe as using the 0x00 0x01 0x02.... 0x1F binary key.
The user behavior is a big part of any security system, independently of the standards used.
Mr. Scram, not knowing your background, just to make sure, you are aware that not all secrets/keys are "passwords" (sequences of fully random and independent characters), per se? And also that the effectiveness of the bits in the secret can vary depending on the use case? For example, consider the differences in the key length recommendations between AES (e.g. 256) and RSA (2048), etc. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_size).Sure, but we're not talking about RSA or similar things. We're talking about WIFI PSKs and essentially how easily they're brute forced. That's mostly what should make things more or less secure when talking about a WIFI PSK. Of course it'd be more accurate to talk about bits of entropy, but if people know what those are I probably don't need to tell them anything about it. Anyone who has "sunshine" or "123456789" for a password and thinks that's enough is asking for a lesson. It's not 1999 any more.
So, plainly stating "8 characters should be reasonable" without considering the context might be very, very misleading.
I admit that I do not know much about the WLAN protocols etc. and thus no idea how effectively a password/secret could be brute forced in that environment.
Also note that in many secure environments, 8 or 9 character passwords are no longer considered enough. E.g. all the non-trivial hosts and systems I have access to, no matter why/who is running them (job, university, bank as a client, etc.), the requirement has been 10 or more characters for few years already. 8 should be good enough for the typical random websites/forums, though.
tv84 (and others):
I read somewhere that the 63-char passphrase limit vs. 64 char hexkey is specifically so that the same input can be used for either style; if its length is within the 8-63 characters, it is a password or a passphrase; if it its length is exactly 64 it is the hex key.
Note that "passphrase" typically does not mean the same type of content as "password"; former is often considered to allow indeed phrases (e.g. sort gibberish sentences made from real words or word like sequences), while latter is typically considered to consists of more or less independent random characters (within allowed set of characters). Thus, passphrases consisting of words/word-likes, the correlation between characters in those words reduces the entropy value of each character quite a lot. That is why passphrases should be allowed to be quite a bit longer than normal random passwords. (I'm too lazy and busy to pick up scientific estimates on passphrase entropy estimations to copy here, feel free to google...)
That said, I think it could be considered that the implementation in the scope does not fulfill WPA2-PSK spec requirements, and thus should not be considered compatible with that. And since WPA2-PSK is the last commonly used method we have left that isn't considered basically useless, there should be quite some effort to make it work correctly. Security is fragile enough even without cutting corners like limiting key field lengths :P
Well, I recently ordered a Rigol MSO1104Z but after detailed reading and spending a few hours using what I would describe as the most sluggish UI I have ever dealt with on an instrument I'm not convinced it's going to hang around. I ordered a Siglent 1104X-E to try it out and see if I like it better. I REALLY like that 4 channels at 500Ms/sec is possible and that it has higher waveform update rate as well. I've read there however some serious issues with the MSO portion of it, or at least there were. I've tried to read through this thread but I was wondering if there is a list of outstanding bugs that are still out there?Welcome to the forum.
Has the MSO/LA improved any? That's a big feature to me and I have every intention of upgrading to it if it is not crippled.Not as far as I know. There has been a firmware update for SLA1016 a few months ago.
Are there any big show-stopper bugs still out there?
I have to say, purely on the look/feel of the UI and front panel I prefer the Rigol1000Z series, but once you step past the $360 price point the SIGLENT seems like better overall performance match to a 100Mhz (200 if I feel adventurous) scope. If I am going to sell off my Rigol DS2202 I don't think I can really live with the RIGOL 1104Z's terrible sluggish response. It feels like crap switching between the two. If the SIGLENT is snappier then it's inexpensive enough to consider hanging onto my DS2202 as well. I love that scope but I always wanted 4 channels but they were astronomical in the day.Understandable as you're well used to the GUI/UI.
Well, I recently ordered a Rigol MSO1104Z but after detailed reading and spending a few hours using what I would describe as the most sluggish UI I have ever dealt with on an instrument I'm not convinced it's going to hang around. I ordered a Siglent 1104X-E to try it out and see if I like it better. I REALLY like that 4 channels at 500Ms/sec is possible and that it has higher waveform update rate as well. I've read there however some serious issues with the MSO portion of it, or at least there were. I've tried to read through this thread but I was wondering if there is a list of outstanding bugs that are still out there?Welcome to the forum.QuoteHas the MSO/LA improved any? That's a big feature to me and I have every intention of upgrading to it if it is not crippled.Not as far as I know. There has been a firmware update for SLA1016 a few months ago.
Are there any big show-stopper bugs still out there?QuoteI have to say, purely on the look/feel of the UI and front panel I prefer the Rigol1000Z series, but once you step past the $360 price point the SIGLENT seems like better overall performance match to a 100Mhz (200 if I feel adventurous) scope. If I am going to sell off my Rigol DS2202 I don't think I can really live with the RIGOL 1104Z's terrible sluggish response. It feels like crap switching between the two. If the SIGLENT is snappier then it's inexpensive enough to consider hanging onto my DS2202 as well. I love that scope but I always wanted 4 channels but they were astronomical in the day.Understandable as you're well used to the GUI/UI.
Like any instrument, let the operation of it take a little while to get used to you :) ;) and in no time you'll be able to switch between them without a second thought....sure that's harder if you use them infrequently.
I was just finding the excellent review thread and spotted you were already reading it. :)Well, I recently ordered a Rigol MSO1104Z but after detailed reading and spending a few hours using what I would describe as the most sluggish UI I have ever dealt with on an instrument I'm not convinced it's going to hang around. I ordered a Siglent 1104X-E to try it out and see if I like it better. I REALLY like that 4 channels at 500Ms/sec is possible and that it has higher waveform update rate as well. I've read there however some serious issues with the MSO portion of it, or at least there were. I've tried to read through this thread but I was wondering if there is a list of outstanding bugs that are still out there?Welcome to the forum.QuoteHas the MSO/LA improved any? That's a big feature to me and I have every intention of upgrading to it if it is not crippled.Not as far as I know. There has been a firmware update for SLA1016 a few months ago.
Are there any big show-stopper bugs still out there?QuoteI have to say, purely on the look/feel of the UI and front panel I prefer the Rigol1000Z series, but once you step past the $360 price point the SIGLENT seems like better overall performance match to a 100Mhz (200 if I feel adventurous) scope. If I am going to sell off my Rigol DS2202 I don't think I can really live with the RIGOL 1104Z's terrible sluggish response. It feels like crap switching between the two. If the SIGLENT is snappier then it's inexpensive enough to consider hanging onto my DS2202 as well. I love that scope but I always wanted 4 channels but they were astronomical in the day.Understandable as you're well used to the GUI/UI.
Like any instrument, let the operation of it take a little while to get used to you :) ;) and in no time you'll be able to switch between them without a second thought....sure that's harder if you use them infrequently.
Hey thanks for the welcome!
My last point is really aimed at the Rigol MSO1104Z vs the Rigol DS2202. The UI is really consistent actually, menus are easy because they work just alike on the two and frankly if the 1104Z had snappy response I likely wouldn't be looking around, but I was very disappointed with the UI speed on the Rigol 1104Z. On the 2202 things move very quickly and the markers move and then the trace is right behind it. On the 1104Z (Rigol) the trace sort of lumbers it's way towards and then past what you wanted and then the marker moves once you stop turning. Similar with changing the V/div setting very easy to roll past what you want with no screen update till you stop turning. The waveform zoom function is painful when you scroll horizontally.
I don't want to get used to that. I didn't notice it that bad in the video demos but often you get fixated on the screen. Now that I re-watch them I do notice it in the videos too. It sure looks like the SIGLENT is much better in this regard. If I can get 200Mhz unlocked then it may be a good replacement for my old 2202, both in channels and bandwidth. I should have it this weekend to try out and decide. Somebody has to go back and I *suspect* it will be the Rigol. I'm only really torn about the MSO option right now.
Thanks!
Short Form Long Form Subsystem Description
*CAL? *CAL? MISCELLANEOUS Performs complete internal calibration of the instrument.
*CLS *CLS STATUS Clears all status data registers
*ESE *ESE STATUS Sets the Standard Event Status Enable register (ESE).
*ESR? *ESR? STATUS Reads, clears the Event Status Register (ESR).
*IDN? *IDN? MISCELLANEOUS For identification purposes.
*OPC? *OPC? STATUS Sets the OPC bit in the Event Status Register (ESR).
*RCL *RCL SAVE/RECALL Recalls one of five nonvolatile panel setups.
*RST *RST SAVE/RECALL The *RST command initiates a device reset.
*SAV *SAV SAVE/RECALL Stores current state in nonvolatile internal memory.
*SRE *SRE STATUS Sets the Service Request Enable register (SRE).
*STB? *STB? STATUS Reads the contents of IEEE 488.
*TRG *TRG ACQUISITION Executes an ARM command.
*TST? *TST? MISCELLANEOUS Performas an Internal Self Test
ACAL MISCELLANEOUS Enables or disables automatic calibration.
ACQW ACQUIRE_WAY ACQUISITION Specifies the acquisition mode.
ALST? ALL_STATUS? STATUS Reads and clears the contents of all status registers.
AMPDBM AMPLITUDEDBM
ARM ARM_ACQUISITION ACQUISITION Changes acquisition state from "stopped" to "single".
ARWV ARBWAVE DATA SYSTEM Change arbitrary wave type.
ASET AUTOSETUP ACQUISITION Adjusts vertical, time base and trigger parameters.
ATTN ATTENUATION ACQUISITION Selects the vertical attenuation factor of the probe
AUTTS AUTO_TYPESET ACQUISITION Selects the display type of automatic setup.
AVGA AVERAGE_ACQUIRE ACQUISITION Selects the average times of average acquisition.
BSWV BASICWAVE
BTWL
BTWV BURSTWAVE SIGNAL Set or get burst wave parameters
BUZZ BUZZER MISCELLANEOUS Controls the built-in piezo-electric buzzer.
BWL BANDWIDTH_LIMIT ACQUISITION Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
CFLASH CLEARFLASH
CHDR COMMUNICATION Controls formatting of query responses.
CLRCALI CLEARCALIBRATION
CLSW CLEAR_SWEEPS FUNCTION Restarts the cumulative processing functions.
CMBN COMBINE
CMR? CMR? STATUS Reads and clears the Command error Register (CMR).
CONET COMM_NET COMMUNICATION Specifies network addresses of scope and printers.
CPL COUPLING ACQUISITION Selects the specified input channel‘s coupling mode.
CRMS CURSOR_MEASURE CURSOR Specifies the type of cursor/parameter measurement.
CRST CURSOR Allows positioning of any one of eight cursors.
CRVA? CURSOR_VALUE? CURSOR Returns trace values measured by specified cursors.
CSVS CSV_SAVE SAVE/RECALL Saves specified waveform data of CSV format to USB device.
CYMT CYMOMETER FUNCTION Returns the current cymometer value which displaying on the screen
DDR? DDR? STATUS Clears the Device Dependent Register (DDR).
DEF DEFINE? FUNCTION Specifies math expression for function evaluation
DELF DELETE_FILE MASS STORAGE Deletes files from mass storage.
DIR DIRECTORY MASS STORAGE Creates and deletes file directories.
DTJN DOT_JOIN DISPLAY Controls the interpolation lines between data points.
DUTYCALI DUTYCALIBRATION
EXR? EXR? STATUS Reads, clears the Execution error Register (EXR).
FCNT FreqCouNTer Sets or gets frequency counter parameters.
FCNTCALI FreqCouNTerCALIbration
FFTF FFT_FULLSCREEN FUNCTION Enables or disables to display the FFT trace full screen.
FFTS FFT_SCALE FUNCTION Selects the vertical scale of FFT trace.
FFTW FFT_WINDOW FUNCTION Selects the window of FFT.
FFTZ FFT_ZOOM FUNCTION Selects the zoom in/out times of FFT trace.
FILT FILTER FUNCTION Enables or disables the filter of specified source.
FILTS FILT_SET FUNCTION Selects the type of filter, and sets the limit value of filter
FLNM FILENAME MASS STORAGE Changes default filenames.
FPAR FRAME_PARAM HISTORY Get frame param.
FRAM FRAME_SET HISTORY History Frame No. set
FRSPAJT FreqReSPAJusT
FRTR FORCE_TRIGGER ACQUISITION Forces the instrument to make one acquisition.
FTIM FRAME_TIME HISTORY Get frame Acq. Time.
FVDISK FORMAT_VDISK MASS STORAGE Reads the capability of the USB device.
GCSV GET_CSV WAVEFORMTRANS Specifies waveform data of format to controller.
GRDS GRID_DISPLAY DISPLAY Selects the type of grid
HARM HARMONIC
HMAG HOR_MAGNIFY DISPLAY Horizontally expands the selected expansion trace.
HPOS HOR_POSITION DISPLAY Horizontally positions intensified zone‘s center.
INR? INR? STATUS Reads, clears INternal state change Register (INR).
INTS INTENSITY DISPLAY Sets the grid or trace/text intensity level.
INVS INVERT_SET DISPLAY Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
INVT INVERT DISPLAY
LAGG
LANG LANGUAGE
LOCK LOCK MISCELLANEOUS Lock keyboard
MDWV MODULATEWAVE SIGNAL Set or get modulate wave parameters.
MENU MENU DISPLAY Enables or disables to display the current menu
MODE MODE
MSIZ MEMORY_SIZE FUNCTION Returns the maximal memory size
MTVD MATH_VERT_DIV ACQUISITION Controls the vertical sensitivity of math waveform of specified source.
MTVP MATH_VERT_POS ACQUISITION Controls the vertical position of math waveform of specified source.
NBFM NUMBERFORMAT
OFST OFFSET ACQUISITION Allows output channel vertical offset adjustment.
OUTP OUTPUT
PACL PARAMETER_CLR CURSOR Clears all current parameters in Custom, Pass/Fail.
PACU PARAMETER_CUSTOM CURSOR Controls parameters with customizable qualifiers.
PAVA? PARAMETER_VALUE? CURSOR Returns current parameter, mask test values
PESU PERSIST_SETUP DISPLAY Selects display persistence duration.
PFCM PF_CREATEM FUNCTION Creates the mask of the pass/fail.
PFCT PF_CONTROL FUNCTION Selects the "operate", "output" and the "stop on output" which are the options of pass/fail.
PFDD PF_DATEDIS FUNCTION Return the number of the pass/fail monitor which can be displayed on the screen
PFDS PF_DISPLAY FUNCTION Enables or disables to display the test and the message options of pass/fail
PFSL PF_SAVELOAD SAVE/RECALL Saves or recalls the created mask setting
PFST PF_SET FUNCTION Sets the X mask and the Y mask
PNSU PANEL_SETUP SAVE/RECALL Complements the *SAV/*RST commands.
PROD PRODUCT
PRTCALI PRINTCALIBRATION
RCPN RECALL_PANEL SAVE/RECALL Recalls a front-panel setup from mass storage.
REFS REF_SET FUNCTION Sets the reference waveform and its options.
RFLASH ReadFlash
RFLASHBLK ReadFlashBlock
ROSC ROSCillator Sets or gets the clock source.
SANU SAMPLE_NUM ACQUISITION Return the number of sampled points available from last acquisition and the trigger position
SARA SAMPLE_RATE ACQUISITION Return the sample rate of the scope
SAST SAMPLE_STATUS ACQUISITION Return the acquisition status of the scope
SCDP SCREEN_DUMP HARD COPY Causes a screen dump to controller.
SCFG SYSTEMCONFIG SYSTEM Set or get power on initializing parameter way.
SCSV SCREEN_SAVE DISPLAY Controls the automatic screen saver.
SET50 FUNCTION Sets the trigger level of the trigger source to the centre of the signal amplitude.
SKEW SKEW ACQUISITION Sets the skew of specified trace
SLFCALI SeLFCALIbration
STL STORELIST SIGNAL Get the list of store wave
STO STORE WAVEFORM TRANSFER Stores a trace in internal memory or mass storage.
STOP STOP ACQUISITION Immediately stops signal acquisition
STPN STORE_PANEL SAVE/RECALL Stores front-panel setup to mass storage.
STST STORE_SETUP WAVEFORM TRANSFER Controls the way in which traces are stored.
SWWV SWEEPWAVE SIGNAL Set or get sweep wave.
SXSA SINXX_SAMPLE ACQUISITION Sets the type of the interpolation
SYNC SYNC
TDIV TIME_DIV ACQUISITION Modifies the time base setting.
TMPL TEMPLATE WAVEFORM TRANSFER Produces a complete waveform template copy.
TRA TRACE DISPLAY Enables or disables the display of a trace.
TRCP TRIG_COUPLING ACQUISITION Sets the coupling mode of the specified trigger source.
TRDL TRIG_DELAY ACQUISITION Sets the time at which the trigger is to occur.
TRLV TRIG_LEVEL ACQUISITION Adjusts the trigger level of the specified trigger source
TRLV2 TRIG_LEVEL2 ACQUISITION Adjusts the second trigger level of the specified trigger source.
TRMD TRIG_MODE ACQUISITION The trigger mode.
TRPA TRIG_PATTERN ACQUISITION Sets the condition of the pattern trigger
TRSE TRIG_SELECT ACQUISITION Selects the condition that will trigger acquisition.
TRSL TRIG_SLOPE ACQUISITION Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
TRWI TRIG_WINDOW ACQUISITION Return relative height of the trigger window
UNIT UNIT ACQUISITION Sets the unit of specified trace
VDIV VOLT_DIV ACQUISITION Sets the vertical sensitivity
VKEY VIRTUALKEY SYSTEM Set the virtual key.
VOLTPRT Sets or gets state of over-voltage protection
WAIT WAIT ACQUISITION Prevents new analysis until current has been completed.
WF WAVEFORM WAVEFORMTRANS Gets the waveform from the instrument.
WFLASH WriteFlash
WFLASHBLK WriteFlaskBlock
WFSU WAVEFORM_SETUP WAVEFORMTRANS Specifies amount of waveform data to go to controller
WRFLASHBLK WriteReadFlashBlock
WVDT wavedata SIGNAL Get the wave data of store .
wvpr waveparameter causes instant disconnect on query
XYDS XY_DISPLAY DISPLAY Enables or disables to display the XY format
SYSTem:COMM:LAN:IPAD
SYSTem:COMM:LAN:SMAS
SYSTem:COMM:LAN:GAT
SYSTem:COMM:LAN:MAC
SYSTem:DATE
SYSTem:time
SYST:VERS
SYSTem:PON:TYPE?
SYSTem:PRESet:TYPE?
Short Form Long Form Subsystem Description
*CAL? *CAL? MISCELLANEOUS Performs complete internal calibration of the instrument.
*CLS *CLS STATUS Clears all status data registers
*ESE *ESE STATUS Sets the Standard Event Status Enable register (ESE).
*ESR? *ESR? STATUS Reads, clears the Event Status Register (ESR).
*IDN? *IDN? MISCELLANEOUS For identification purposes.
*OPC? *OPC? STATUS Sets the OPC bit in the Event Status Register (ESR).
*RCL *RCL SAVE/RECALL Recalls one of five nonvolatile panel setups.
*RST *RST SAVE/RECALL The *RST command initiates a device reset.
*SAV *SAV SAVE/RECALL Stores current state in nonvolatile internal memory.
*SRE *SRE STATUS Sets the Service Request Enable register (SRE).
*STB? *STB? STATUS Reads the contents of IEEE 488.
*TRG *TRG ACQUISITION Executes an ARM command.
*TST? *TST? MISCELLANEOUS Performas an Internal Self Test
ACQW ACQUIRE_WAY ACQUISITION Specifies the acquisition mode.
ALST? ALL_STATUS? STATUS Reads and clears the contents of all status registers.
AMPDBM AMPLITUDEDBM
ARM ARM_ACQUISITION ACQUISITION Changes acquisition state from "stopped" to "single".
C:ARWV (AR) ARBWAVE DATA SYSTEM Change arbitrary wave type.
ASET AUTOSETUP ACQUISITION Adjusts vertical, time base and trigger parameters.
C:ATTN ATTENUATION ACQUISITION Selects the vertical attenuation factor of the probe
AUTTS AUTO_TYPESET ACQUISITION Selects the display type of automatic setup.
AVGA AVERAGE_ACQUIRE ACQUISITION Selects the average times of average acquisition.
C:BSWV (B) BASICWAVE
BTWL
C:BTWV BURSTWAVE SIGNAL Set or get burst wave parameters
BUZZ BUZZER MISCELLANEOUS Controls the built-in piezo-electric buzzer.
C:BWL BANDWIDTH_LIMIT ACQUISITION Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
CFLASH CLEARFLASH
CHDR COMMUNICATION Controls formatting of query responses.
CHS
CLRCALI CLEARCALIBRATION
CLSW COLOUR_SWITCH
CLEAR_SWEEPS FUNCTION Restarts the cumulative processing functions.
C:CMBN (c ) COMBINE
CMR? CMR? STATUS Reads and clears the Command error Register (CMR).
CONET COMM_NET COMMUNICATION Specifies network addresses of scope and printers.
C:CPL COUPLING ACQUISITION Selects the specified input channel‘s coupling mode.
CRMS CURSOR_MEASURE CURSOR Specifies the type of cursor/parameter measurement.
crsc CURSOR_SOURCE
C:CRST CURSOR_SET CURSOR Allows positioning of any one of eight cursors.
CRTY CURSOR_TYPE
C:CRVA? CURSOR_VALUE? CURSOR Returns trace values measured by specified cursors.
CSVS CSV_SAVE SAVE/RECALL Saves specified waveform data of CSV format to USB device.
CYMT CYMOMETER FUNCTION Returns the current cymometer value which displaying on the screen
C:DACC
DCD1
DCST (d)
DCVL
DDR? DDR? STATUS Clears the Device Dependent Register (DDR).
DEF DEFINE? FUNCTION Specifies math expression for function evaluation
DELF DELETE_FILE MASS STORAGE Deletes files from mass storage.
DIR DIRECTORY MASS STORAGE Creates and deletes file directories.
DMES Causes instant program crash
DTJN DOT_JOIN DISPLAY Controls the interpolation lines between data points.
DUTYCALI DUTYCALIBRATION
EMOD (e) EDUMODE
EXR? EXR? STATUS Reads, clears the Execution error Register (EXR).
FCNT FreqCouNTer Sets or gets frequency counter parameters.
FCNTCALI FreqCouNTerCALIbration
FDBKAJT FeeDBacKAJusT
FFTC FFT_CENTER The FFT_CENTER command sets the center frequency when FFT (Fast Fourier Transform) is selected.
FFTF FFT_FULLSCREEN FUNCTION Enables or disables to display the FFT trace full screen.
FFTP FFT_POS The FFT_POSITION command sets the vertical offset of FFT waveform
FFTS FFT_SCALE FUNCTION Selects the vertical scale of FFT trace.
FFTT FFT_TDIV The FFT_TDIV? query returns current horizontal scale of FFT waveform.
FFTU FFT_UNIT The FFT_UNIT command sets the vertical scale type of FFT
FFTW FFT_WINDOW FUNCTION Selects the window of FFT.
FILT FILTER FUNCTION Enables or disables the filter of specified source.
FILTS FILT_SET FUNCTION Selects the type of filter, and sets the limit value of filter
FLNM FILENAME MASS STORAGE Changes default filenames.
FPAR FRAME_PARAM HISTORY Get frame param.
FRAM FRAME_SET HISTORY History Frame No. set
FRSPAJT FreqReSPAJusT
FRTR FORCE_TRIGGER ACQUISITION Forces the instrument to make one acquisition.
FVDISK FORMAT_VDISK MASS STORAGE Reads the capability of the USB device.
GCSV GET_CSV WAVEFORMTRANS Specifies waveform data of format to controller.
GRDS GRID_DISPLAY DISPLAY Selects the type of grid
C:HADJ
C:HARM HARMONIC
HMAG HOR_MAGNIFY DISPLAY Horizontally expands the selected expansion trace.
HPOS HOR_POSITION DISPLAY Horizontally positions intensified zone‘s center.
HSIN HISTORY_INTERVAL
HSLST HISTORY_LIST The HISTORY_LIST command is used to set the state of history list.
HSMD HISTORY_MODE The HISTORY_MODE command is used to set the state of history mode.
HSST HISTORY_STATE
HSTA HOR_STATE
INR? INR? STATUS Reads, clears INternal state change Register (INR).
INTS INTENSITY DISPLAY Sets the grid or trace/text intensity level.
C:INVS INVERT_SET DISPLAY Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
C:INVT INVERT DISPLAY
LAGG (LA)
LANG LANGUAGE
LED
MCBD MACHINE_BAND
C:MDWV (M) MODULATEWAVE SIGNAL Set or get modulate wave parameters.
MEAD MEASURE_DELAY The MEASURE_DELY command places the instrument in the continuous measurement mode and starts a type of delay measurement.
MENU MENU DISPLAY Enables or disables to display the current menu
MODE MODE
MSIZ MEMORY_SIZE FUNCTION Returns the maximal memory size
MTEN MATH_ENABLE
MTVD MATH_VERT_DIV ACQUISITION Controls the vertical sensitivity of math waveform of specified source.
MTVP MATH_VERT_POS ACQUISITION Controls the vertical position of math waveform of specified source.
NBFM (N) NUMBERFORMAT
C:OFST OFFSET ACQUISITION Allows output channel vertical offset adjustment.
C:OUTP OUTPUT
PACL PARAMETER_CLR CURSOR Clears all current parameters in Custom, Pass/Fail.
PACU PARAMETER_CUSTOM CURSOR Controls parameters with customizable qualifiers.
PAVA? PARAMETER_VALUE? CURSOR Returns current parameter, mask test values
PESU PERSIST_SETUP DISPLAY Selects display persistence duration.
PFBF PF_BUFFER The PF_BUFFER command sets the output mode when the test fails.
PFCM PF_CREATEM FUNCTION Creates the mask of the pass/fail.
PFDD PF_DATEDIS FUNCTION Return the number of the pass/fail monitor which can be displayed on the screen
PFDS PF_DISPLAY FUNCTION Enables or disables to display the test and the message options of pass/fail
PFEN PF_ENABLE The PF_ENABLE command enables or disables the Pass/Fail test features.
PFFS PF_FAIL_STOP The PF_FAIL_STOP command sets the switch of the ―stop on fail‖ function
PFOP PF_OPERATION The PF_OPERATION command controls to run or stop Pass/Fail test
PFSC PF_SOURCE The PF_SOURCE command sets measurement sources for Pass/Fail test.
PFSL PF_SAVELOAD SAVE/RECALL Saves or recalls the created mask setting
PFST PF_SET FUNCTION Sets the X mask and the Y mask
PNSU PANEL_SETUP SAVE/RECALL Complements the *SAV/*RST commands.
PRBD
C:PRI PRIORITY
PROD PRODUCT
PRTCALI PRINTCALIBRATION
RCPN RECALL_PANEL SAVE/RECALL Recalls a front-panel setup from mass storage.
REFCL REF_CLOSE The REF_CLOSE command closes the Reference function.
REFDS REF_DISPLAY The REF_DISPLAY command enables or disables the current reference channel shown on the screen.
REFLA REF_LOCATION The REF_LOCATION command selects the current reference channel.
REFPO REF_POSITION The REF_POSITION command sets the vertical offset of the current reference channel.
REFSA REF_SAVE The REF_SAVE command saves the waveform (screen range) of the specified source as the reference waveform
REFSC REF_SCALE The REF_SCALE command sets the vertical scale of the current reference channel
REFSR REF_SOURCE The REF_SOURCE command sets the reference waveform source.
RFLASH ReadFlash
RFLASHBLK ReadFlashBlock
ROSC ROSCillator Sets or gets the clock source.
SVAJTDT SaVeAJusTDaTa
SANU SAMPLE_NUM ACQUISITION Return the number of sampled points available from last acquisition and the trigger position
SARA SAMPLE_RATE ACQUISITION Return the sample rate of the scope
SAST SAMPLE_STATUS ACQUISITION Return the acquisition status of the scope
SCDP SCREEN_DUMP HARD COPY Causes a screen dump to controller.
SCFG (S) SYSTEMCONFIG SYSTEM Set or get power on initializing parameter way.
SCSV SCREEN_SAVE DISPLAY Controls the automatic screen saver.
SET50 FUNCTION Sets the trigger level of the trigger source to the centre of the signal amplitude.
C:SKEW SKEW ACQUISITION Sets the skew of specified trace
SLFCALI SeLFCALIbration
SRLN
STL (ST) STORELIST SIGNAL Get the list of store wave
STO STORE WAVEFORM TRANSFER Stores a trace in internal memory or mass storage.
STOP STOP ACQUISITION Immediately stops signal acquisition
STPN STORE_PANEL SAVE/RECALL Stores front-panel setup to mass storage.
STST STORE_SETUP WAVEFORM TRANSFER Controls the way in which traces are stored.
MATH:INVS INVERT_SET DISPLAY Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
MATH:CRVA CURSOR_VALUE? CURSOR Returns trace values measured by specified cursors.
DI:WF
DI:WSF
DI:SARA SAMPLE_RATE? The SARA? query returns the sample rate of the scope.
DI:LTV LOCAL_VALID
DI:CMF CMD_FINISHED
DI:STTA START_ACQ
DI:STPA STOP_ACQ
DI:SRLN
DI:THAD THREADJ
DI:HISM HIST_MODE
DI:SV SOFTWARE_VERSION
DI:PV PCB_VERSION
DI:FV FPGA_VERSION
DI:FR FREQ
DI:BV BOM_VERSION
DI:SW SWITCH The SWITCH command is used to set the state of digital.
C:SWWV (sw) SWEEPWAVE SIGNAL Set or get sweep wave.
SVADJDT?
SXSA SINXX_SAMPLE ACQUISITION Sets the type of the interpolation
:SYNC SYNC
TDIV TIME_DIV ACQUISITION Modifies the time base setting.
TMPL TEMPLATE WAVEFORM TRANSFER Produces a complete waveform template copy.
D:TRA TRACE DISPLAY Enables or disables the display of a trace.
C:TRA TRACE DISPLAY Enables or disables the display of a trace.
C:TRCP TRIG_COUPLING ACQUISITION Sets the coupling mode of the specified trigger source.
TRDL TRIG_DELAY ACQUISITION Sets the time at which the trigger is to occur.
TRDP TRIG_DROP
C:TRLV TRIG_LEVEL ACQUISITION Adjusts the trigger level of the specified trigger source
C:TRLV2 TRIG_LEVEL2 ACQUISITION Adjusts the second trigger level of the specified trigger source.
TRMD TRIG_MODE ACQUISITION The trigger mode.
TRNR TRIG_NOISEREJ
TRPA TRIG_PATTERN ACQUISITION Sets the condition of the pattern trigger
TRSE TRIG_SELECT ACQUISITION Selects the condition that will trigger acquisition.
C:TRSL TRIG_SLOPE ACQUISITION Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D:TRSL TRIG_SLOPE ACQUISITION Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
L8:TSM THRESHOLD_MODE The THRESHOLD_MODE command sets the threshold type for the specified group of channels.
L8:CUS CUSTOM The CUSTOM command sets the threshold value by customer for the specified group of channels
H8:CUS CUSTOM The CUSTOM command sets the threshold value by customer for the specified group of channels
H8:TSM THRESHOLD_MODE The THRESHOLD_MODE command sets the threshold type for the specified group of channels.
TRSR TRIG_SOURCE Trigger Source
TRST TRIG_STATUS
TRWI TRIG_WINDOW ACQUISITION Return relative height of the trigger window
C:UNIT UNIT ACQUISITION Sets the unit of specified trace
C:VDIV VOLT_DIV ACQUISITION Sets the vertical sensitivity
C:VGAC
VKEY VIRTUALKEY SYSTEM Set the virtual key.
VOLTPRT Sets or gets state of over-voltage protection
WAIT WAIT ACQUISITION Prevents new analysis until current has been completed.
WF WAVEFORM WAVEFORMTRANS Gets the waveform from the instrument.
WFLASH WriteFlash
WFLASHBLK WriteFlaskBlock
WFSU WAVEFORM_SETUP WAVEFORMTRANS Specifies amount of waveform data to go to controller
WRFLASHBLK WriteReadFlashBlock
WFDA saves waveform data to user folder on device
WFSU WAVEFORM_SETUP Waveform Setup
WVDT wavedata SIGNAL Get the wave data of store .
wvpr waveparameter The WAVE_PARA? query returns the location, name, frequency, amplitude, and offset of four arbitrary waveforms.
XYDS XY_DISPLAY DISPLAY Enables or disables to display the XY format
SYST:COMM:LAN:IPAD SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:IPADdress Set a host name for the signal generator in network
SYST:COMM:LAN:SMAS SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:SMASk Set the subnet mask according to the PC network Settings. The subnet mask will be set automatically if the IP assignment is set to DHCP.
SYST:COMM:LAN:GAT SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:GATeway Set the gateway for the signal generator in the network. The gateway will be fetched automatically if the IP assignment is set to DHCP.
SYST:COMM:LAN:TYPE SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:TYPE Toggles the IP assignment Setting between static (manual) and DHCP (dynamic assignment) mode.
SYST:COMM:MAC SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:MAC
SYST:DATE SYSTem:DATE System Date
SYST:time SYSTem:time System Time
SYST:VERS SYSTem:VERSion
SYST:PON:TYPE SYSTem:PON:TYPE Uses command to set signal generator to power on in default, last. Get power on type.
SYST:PRES:TYPE SYSTem:PRESet:TYPE Uses this command to preset the signal generator to default, user.
SYST:PRES:SAVE SYSTem:PRESet:SAVE Save status for preset when preset type is user.
SYST:PRES SYSTem:PRESet Presets all parameters.
SOUR:PRES SOURce:PRESet Presets all parameters which are related to the selected signal path
SYST:PRES:PATH SYSTem:PRESet:PATH Set preset file when preset type is user
SYST:FDEF SYSTem:FDEFault
SYST:ERR SYSTem:ERRor
Found some more, most of these relate to interfacing with the digital input device,
At this point I am mostly only able to dig out queries, as running arbitrary commands when things like CLEARFLASH are buried in there,
There is one command in there I dont really know the full story for, DMES, he appears to be a query expecting something after the question mark, but not yet found out what, equally Dmes and WVPR if run with no trailing term will instantly break SCPI, with WVPR also crashing the scope application.
As I browse through them most appear to be the equivalents of UI functions, ie. available within the user menus and sub-menus.
Tautech, any input on why half these commands are not documented in the manuals?
On the 1104Z (Rigol) the trace sort of lumbers it's way towards and then past what you wanted and then the marker moves once you stop turning.
frankly if the 1104Z had snappy response I likely wouldn't be looking around, but I was very disappointed with the UI speed on the Rigol 1104Z.
Has the MSO/LA improved any? That's a big feature to me and I have every intention of upgrading to it if it is not crippled.The integration of the MSO option with the SDS1004X-E DSO is not great, so you can call it crippled indeed, when compared to the fully integrated solutions in SDS1000X+ and SDS2000X.
Are there any big show-stopper bugs still out there?
tv84: I've searched every one of your posts on the forum and cannot find anything like what your describing other than the text file, Any chance you could post that list if you still have it?
There are things like how to make the scope enter bode plot mode with certain parameters that is still unclear to me.
Is there any facility to change the labels of the channels? I didn't see it in the manual or playing arounds in the UI, so my guess is there isn't but thought I would confirms that. That'll be something I miss a little bit.You're right, the analog channels don't have customizable labels.
Is there any facility to change the labels of the channels? I didn't see it in the manual or playing arounds in the UI, so my guess is there isn't but thought I would confirms that. That'll be something I miss a little bit.You're right, the analog channels don't have customizable labels.
It sounds like a cool feature, but there is also hardly any spare space to support meaningful labels on Siglent X-E scopes.
Does Rigol DS1000Z have this?
I agree that there is no real room on the marker flag, but there could be some on the channel "cards" on the right side under the channel number tab indent. It would be helpful when you make screen shots not to have to include a legend each time explaining what the traces are.Yes, it would be a nice feature, no doubt.
Damn. It was a thought. Not a big thing. Just a wish. I’ll check firmware version tonight. That was a stolen screenshot from the interwebs.A trace name could probably be implemented and best it would be the same color as the trace and at the 0V position just inside the active display window alongside the left channel indicator. Best it would be character # limited to maybe 5 characters which would suit most needs.
Damn. It was a thought. Not a big thing. Just a wish. I’ll check firmware version tonight. That was a stolen screenshot from the interwebs.A trace name could probably be implemented and best it would be the same color as the trace and at the 0V position just inside the active display window alongside the left channel indicator. Best it would be character # limited to maybe 5 characters which would suit most needs.
The virtual keyboard like that used for the WiFi PSK would be a good selection to accomplish this.
Yes, that is only the sensible place to put any channel naming scheme.....the channel menu on P2. :)Damn. It was a thought. Not a big thing. Just a wish. I’ll check firmware version tonight. That was a stolen screenshot from the interwebs.A trace name could probably be implemented and best it would be the same color as the trace and at the 0V position just inside the active display window alongside the left channel indicator. Best it would be character # limited to maybe 5 characters which would suit most needs.
The virtual keyboard like that used for the WiFi PSK would be a good selection to accomplish this.
I would love that if they could do it! 4 or 5 characters would be great. Just enough that captures are somewhat self-documenting. There are spots the option could go in the channel menus and stay 2 pages.
Yes, that is only the sensible place to put and channel naming scheme.....the channel menu on P2. :)Damn. It was a thought. Not a big thing. Just a wish. I’ll check firmware version tonight. That was a stolen screenshot from the interwebs.A trace name could probably be implemented and best it would be the same color as the trace and at the 0V position just inside the active display window alongside the left channel indicator. Best it would be character # limited to maybe 5 characters which would suit most needs.
The virtual keyboard like that used for the WiFi PSK would be a good selection to accomplish this.
I would love that if they could do it! 4 or 5 characters would be great. Just enough that captures are somewhat self-documenting. There are spots the option could go in the channel menus and stay 2 pages.
HiWelcome to the forum.
Has anyone here tried to use a waveform generator from siglent which is not the SAG1021?
Will the SDG830 work for bode plots?
Do I need the additional software license for bode plots? I the manual the option is only mentioned for the "Arbitrary Waveform Generator". The bode plot is mentioned in a complete different chapter.
I would prefer the SDG830 because it will work standalone ans as a complete user interface. It would be nice to use it to record bode plots.
Thank you very much.
HiWelcome to the forum.
Has anyone here tried to use a waveform generator from siglent which is not the SAG1021?
Will the SDG830 work for bode plots?
Do I need the additional software license for bode plots? I the manual the option is only mentioned for the "Arbitrary Waveform Generator". The bode plot is mentioned in a complete different chapter.
I would prefer the SDG830 because it will work standalone ans as a complete user interface. It would be nice to use it to record bode plots.
Thank you very much.
Yes any of the Siglent AWG's will provide Bode plot functionality with zero licensing requirements.....plug and play.
Bode plot is a free feature, all that's needed for it is a sweeping sinewave controlled by the scope.
I tried the AWG interface of the 1204 but it doesn't recognize the SDG830. Is the feature limited to the SAG1021?The AWG control in the SDS1204X-E is for the "faceless" SAG1021 only. You cannot control any other AWG with that.
The temporary license with 30 uses should be sufficient?
The only thing I am missing in this setup is I can't control the AWG via LAN.
Did I miss anything else which is possible with the SAG1021?
Please see that you update the FW to version 1.08.01.13R6 at your earliest convenience.
I aggre you about the SDG830. I think I'm lucky to get it for 200€. It has been delivered with a very ancient firmware version. Seems to be some remaining stock.
*CAL? Performs complete internal calibration of the instrument.
*CLS Clears all status data registers
*ESE Sets the Standard Event Status Enable register (ESE).
*ESE? Sets the Standard Event Status Enable register (ESE).
*ESR? Reads, clears the Event Status Register (ESR).
*IDN? For identification purposes.
*OPC? Sets the OPC bit in the Event Status Register (ESR).
*RCL Recalls one of five nonvolatile panel setups.
*RSI
*RST The *RST command initiates a device reset.
*SAV Stores current state in nonvolatile internal memory.
*SRE Sets the Service Request Enable register (SRE).
*SRE? Sets the Service Request Enable register (SRE).
*TST? Performas an Internal Self Test
*WAI
ACENBT ACquire_Enhance_BiTs
ACENBT? ACquire_Enhance_BiTs?
ACQW ACQuire_Way Specifies the acquisition mode.
ACQW? ACQuire_Way? Specifies the acquisition mode.
ACSQM ACquire_SeQuence_Mode
ACSQS ACquire_SeQuence_Seg
ALST? ALL_STATUS? Reads and clears the contents of all status registers.
AMEATAT ALL_MEASURE_STATUS
ARM ARM_AQUISITION
ARWV? ARBWAVE? Change arbitrary wave type.
ASET AUTOSETUP Adjusts vertical, time base and trigger parameters.
AVGA AVeraGe_Acquire Selects the average times of average acquisition.
AVGA? AVeraGe_Acquire? Selects the average times of average acquisition.
B1:DCCN B1:DECO_CAN
B1:DCIC B1:DeCo_IiC
B1:DCLN B1:DECO_LIN
B1:DCSP B1:DECO_SPI
B1:DCUT B1:DECO_UART
B2:DCCN B2:DECO_CAN
B2:DCIC B2:DECO_IIC
B2:DCLN B2:DECO_LIN
B2:DCSP B2:DECO_SPI
B2:DCUT B2:DECO_UART
BOARDTEST?
BSWV? BASICWAVE? Set or get basic wave parameters
BTWV? BURSTWAVE? Set or get burst wave parameters
BUZZ BUZZER Controls the built-in piezo-electric buzzer.
BUZZ? BUZZER? Controls the built-in piezo-electric buzzer.
BWL BANDWIDTH_LIMIT Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
BWL? BANDWIDTH_LIMIT? Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
C1:ARWV C1:ARBWAVE Change arbitrary wave type.
C1:ARWV? C1:ARBWAVE? Change arbitrary wave type.
C1:ATTN C1:ATTENUATION Selects the vertical attenuation factor of the probe
C1:ATTN? C1:ATTENUATION? Selects the vertical attenuation factor of the probe
C1:BSWV C1:BASICWAVE Set or get basic wave parameters
C1:BSWV? C1:BASICWAVE? Set or get basic wave parameters
C1:BTWV C1:BURSTWAVE Set or get burst wave parameters
C1:BTWV? C1:BURSTWAVE? Set or get burst wave parameters
C1:BWL C1:BANDWIDTH_LIMIT Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
C1:BWL? C1:BANDWIDTH_LIMIT? Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
C1:CMBN C1:COMBINE
C1:CMBN? C1:COMBINE?
C1:CPL C1:COUPLING Selects the specified input channel‘s coupling mode.
C1:CPL? C1:COUPLING? Selects the specified input channel‘s coupling mode.
C1:CRST C1:CURSOR_SET Allows positioning of any one of eight cursors.
C1:CRST? C1:CURSOR_SET? Allows positioning of any one of eight cursors.
C1:CRVA? C1:CURSOR_VALUE? Returns trace values measured by specified cursors.
C1:DAC_ATTEN
C1:DAC_ATTEN_SET
C1:DAC_ATTEN_SET
C1:DACC
C1:DACC?
C1:HADJ C1:HORIZON_ADJ
C1:HADJ? C1:HORIZON_ADJ?
C1:HARM C1:HARMONIC
C1:HARM? C1:HARMONIC?
C1:INVS C1:INVERT_SET Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
C1:INVS? C1:INVERT_SET? Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
C1:INVT C1:INVERT
C1:INVT? C1:INVERT?
C1:MDWV C1:MODULATEWAVE Set or get modulate wave parameters.
C1:MDWV? C1:MODULATEWAVE? Set or get modulate wave parameters.
C1:OFST C1:OFFSET Allows output channel vertical offset adjustment.
C1:OFST? C1:OFFSET? Allows output channel vertical offset adjustment.
C1:OUTP C1:OUTPUT
C1:OUTP? C1:OUTPUT?
C1:PAVA? C1:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
C1:PRI C1:PRIORITY
C1:PRI? C1:PRIORITY?
C1:SKEW Sets the skew of specified trace
C1:SKEW? Sets the skew of specified trace
C1:SRATE C1:SAMPLERATE
C1:SRATE? C1:SAMPLERATE?
C1:SWWV C1:SWEEPWAVE Set or get sweep wave.
C1:SWWV? C1:SWEEPWAVE? Set or get sweep wave.
C1:SYNC
C1:SYNC?
C1:TRA C1:TRACE Enables or disables the display of a trace.
C1:TRA? C1:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
C1:TRCP C1:TRIG_COUPLING Sets the coupling mode of the specified trigger source.
C1:TRCP? C1:TRIG_COUPLING? Sets the coupling mode of the specified trigger source.
C1:TRLV C1:TRIG_LEVEL Adjusts the trigger level of the specified trigger source
C1:TRLV? C1:TRIG_LEVEL? Adjusts the trigger level of the specified trigger source
C1:TRLV2 C1:TRIG_LEVEL2 Adjusts the second trigger level of the specified trigger source.
C1:TRLV2? C1:TRIG_LEVEL2? Adjusts the second trigger level of the specified trigger source.
C1:TRSL C1:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
C1:TRSL? C1:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
C1:UNIT Sets the unit of specified trace
C1:UNIT? Sets the unit of specified trace
C1:VDIV C1:VOLT_DIV Sets the vertical sensitivity
C1:VDIV? C1:VOLT_DIV? Sets the vertical sensitivity
C1:VGAC
C1:VGAC?
C1:WF? C1:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
C1-C2:MEAD? The MEASURE_DELY command places the instrument in the continuous measurement mode and starts a type of delay measurement.
C1-C3:MEAD? The MEASURE_DELY command places the instrument in the continuous measurement mode and starts a type of delay measurement.
C1-C4:MEAD? The MEASURE_DELY command places the instrument in the continuous measurement mode and starts a type of delay measurement.
C2:ARWV C2:ARBWAVE Change arbitrary wave type.
C2:ARWV? C2:ARBWAVE? Change arbitrary wave type.
C2:ATTN C2:ATTENUATION Selects the vertical attenuation factor of the probe
C2:ATTN? C2:ATTENUATION? Selects the vertical attenuation factor of the probe
C2:BSWV C2:BASICWAVE Set or get basic wave parameters
C2:BSWV? C2:BASICWAVE? Set or get basic wave parameters
C2:BTWV C2:BURSTWAVE Set or get burst wave parameters
C2:BTWV? C2:BURSTWAVE? Set or get burst wave parameters
C2:BWL C2:BANDWIDTH_LIMIT Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
C2:BWL? C2:BANDWIDTH_LIMIT? Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
C2:CMBN C2:COMBINE
C2:CMBN? C2:COMBINE?
C2:CPL C2:COUPLING Selects the specified input channel‘s coupling mode.
C2:CPL? C2:COUPLING? Selects the specified input channel‘s coupling mode.
C2:CRST C2:CURSOR_SET Allows positioning of any one of eight cursors.
C2:CRST? C2:CURSOR_SET? Allows positioning of any one of eight cursors.
C2:CRVA? C2:CURSOR_VALUE? Returns trace values measured by specified cursors.
C2:DAC_ATTEN
C2:DAC_ATTEN_SET
C2:DACC
C2:DACC?
C2:HADJ C2:HORIZON_ADJ
C2:HADJ? C2:HORIZON_ADJ?
C2:HARM C2:HARMONIC
C2:HARM? C2:HARMONIC?
C2:INVS C2:INVERT_SET Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
C2:INVS? C2:INVERT_SET? Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
C2:INVT C2:INVERT
C2:INVT? C2:INVERT?
C2:MDWV C2:MODULATEWAVE Set or get modulate wave parameters.
C2:MDWV? C2:MODULATEWAVE? Set or get modulate wave parameters.
C2:OUTP C2:OUTPUT
C2:OUTP? C2:OUTPUT?
C2:PAVA? C2:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
C2:PRI C2:PRIORITY
C2:PRI? C2:PRIORITY?
C2:SKEW Sets the skew of specified trace
C2:SKEW? Sets the skew of specified trace
C2:SRATE C2:SAMPLERATE
C2:SRATE? C2:SAMPLERATE?
C2:SWWV C2:SWEEPWAVE Set or get sweep wave.
C2:SWWV? C2:SWEEPWAVE? Set or get sweep wave.
C2:SYNC
C2:SYNC?
C2:TRA C2:TRACE Enables or disables the display of a trace.
C2:TRA? C2:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
C2:TRCP C2:TRIG_COUPLING Sets the coupling mode of the specified trigger source.
C2:TRCP? C2:TRIG_COUPLING? Sets the coupling mode of the specified trigger source.
C2:TRLV C2:TRIG_LEVEL Adjusts the trigger level of the specified trigger source
C2:TRLV? C2:TRIG_LEVEL? Adjusts the trigger level of the specified trigger source
C2:TRLV2 C2:TRIG_LEVEL2 Adjusts the second trigger level of the specified trigger source.
C2:TRLV2? C2:TRIG_LEVEL2? Adjusts the second trigger level of the specified trigger source.
C2:TRSL C2:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
C2:TRSL? C2:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
C2:UNIT Sets the unit of specified trace
C2:UNIT? Sets the unit of specified trace
C2:VDIV C2:VOLT_DIV Sets the vertical sensitivity
C2:VDIV? C2:VOLT_DIV? Sets the vertical sensitivity
C2:VGAC
C2:VGAC?
C2:WF? C2:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
C2-C3:MEAD? The MEASURE_DELY command places the instrument in the continuous measurement mode and starts a type of delay measurement.
C2-C4:MEAD? The MEASURE_DELY command places the instrument in the continuous measurement mode and starts a type of delay measurement.
C3:ATTN C3:ATTENUATION Selects the vertical attenuation factor of the probe
C3:ATTN? C3:ATTENUATION? Selects the vertical attenuation factor of the probe
C3:BWL C3:BANDWIDTH_LIMIT Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
C3:BWL? C3:BANDWIDTH_LIMIT? Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
C3:CPL C3:COUPLING Selects the specified input channel‘s coupling mode.
C3:CPL? C3:COUPLING? Selects the specified input channel‘s coupling mode.
C3:CRST C3:CURSOR_SET Allows positioning of any one of eight cursors.
C3:CRST? C3:CURSOR_SET? Allows positioning of any one of eight cursors.
C3:CRVA? C3:CURSOR_VALUE? Returns trace values measured by specified cursors.
C3:DAC_ATTEN
C3:DAC_ATTEN
C3:DAC_ATTEN_SET
C3:DACC
C3:DACC?
C3:HADJ C3:HORIZON_ADJ
C3:HADJ? C3:HORIZON_ADJ?
C3:INVS C3:INVERT_SET Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
C3:INVS? C3:INVERT_SET? Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
C3:PAVA? C3:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
C3:PRI C3:PRIORITY
C3:PRI? C3:PRIORITY?
C3:SKEW Sets the skew of specified trace
C3:SKEW? Sets the skew of specified trace
C3:TRA C3:TRACE Enables or disables the display of a trace.
C3:TRA? C3:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
C3:TRCP C3:TRIG_COUPLING Sets the coupling mode of the specified trigger source.
C3:TRCP? C3:TRIG_COUPLING? Sets the coupling mode of the specified trigger source.
C3:TRLV C3:TRIG_LEVEL Adjusts the trigger level of the specified trigger source
C3:TRLV? C3:TRIG_LEVEL? Adjusts the trigger level of the specified trigger source
C3:TRLV2 C3:TRIG_LEVEL2 Adjusts the second trigger level of the specified trigger source.
C3:TRLV2? C3:TRIG_LEVEL2? Adjusts the second trigger level of the specified trigger source.
C3:TRSL C3:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
C3:TRSL? C3:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
C3:UNIT Sets the unit of specified trace
C3:UNIT? Sets the unit of specified trace
C3:VDIV C3:VOLT_DIV Sets the vertical sensitivity
C3:VDIV? C3:VOLT_DIV? Sets the vertical sensitivity
C3:VGAC
C3:VGAC?
C3:WF? C3:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
C3-C4:MEAD? The MEASURE_DELY command places the instrument in the continuous measurement mode and starts a type of delay measurement.
C4:ATTN C4:ATTENUATION Selects the vertical attenuation factor of the probe
C4:ATTN? C4:ATTENUATION? Selects the vertical attenuation factor of the probe
C4:BWL C4:BANDWIDTH_LIMIT Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
C4:BWL? C4:BANDWIDTH_LIMIT? Enables/disables the bandwidth-limiting lowpass filter
C4:CPL C4:COUPLING Selects the specified input channel‘s coupling mode.
C4:CPL? C4:COUPLING? Selects the specified input channel‘s coupling mode.
C4:CRST C4:CURSOR_SET Allows positioning of any one of eight cursors.
C4:CRST? C4:CURSOR_SET? Allows positioning of any one of eight cursors.
C4:CRVA? C4:CURSOR_VALUE? Returns trace values measured by specified cursors.
C4:DAC_ATTEN
C4:DAC_ATTEN
C4:DAC_ATTEN_SET
C4:DACC
C4:DACC?
C4:HADJ C4:HORIZON_ADJ
C4:HADJ? C4:HORIZON_ADJ?
C4:INVS C4:INVERT_SET Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
C4:INVS? C4:INVERT_SET? Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
C4:PAVA? C4:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
C4:PRI C4:PRIORITY
C4:PRI? C4:PRIORITY?
C4:SKEW Sets the skew of specified trace
C4:SKEW? Sets the skew of specified trace
C4:TRA C4:TRACE Enables or disables the display of a trace.
C4:TRA? C4:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
C4:TRCP C4:TRIG_COUPLING Sets the coupling mode of the specified trigger source.
C4:TRCP? C4:TRIG_COUPLING? Sets the coupling mode of the specified trigger source.
C4:TRLV C4:TRIG_LEVEL Adjusts the trigger level of the specified trigger source
C4:TRLV? C4:TRIG_LEVEL? Adjusts the trigger level of the specified trigger source
C4:TRLV2 C4:TRIG_LEVEL2 Adjusts the second trigger level of the specified trigger source.
C4:TRLV2? C4:TRIG_LEVEL2? Adjusts the second trigger level of the specified trigger source.
C4:TRSL C4:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
C4:TRSL? C4:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
C4:UNIT Sets the unit of specified trace
C4:UNIT? Sets the unit of specified trace
C4:VDIV C4:VOLT_DIV Sets the vertical sensitivity
C4:VDIV? C4:VOLT_DIV? Sets the vertical sensitivity
C4:VGAC
C4:VGAC?
C4:WF? C4:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
CFLASH CLEARFLASH
CHDR COMM_HEADER Controls formatting of query responses.
CHDR? COMM_HEADER? Controls formatting of query responses.
CHIP
CHIP?
CHMD CH_MODE
CHS?
CLEARCALI CLEARCALIBRATION
CLEARDELTA
CLK:SAVE
CLK:SET
CLSW COLOR_SWITCH Persist Colour Switch Command (state)
CLSW? COLOR_SWITCH? Persist Colour Switch Command (state)
CM:PAVA? CURR_MEASURE:PARAMETER_VALUE? Returns current parameter, mask test values
CMBN COMBINE
CMBN? COMBINE?
CMPA CURR_MEASURE_STAT
CMR? CMR? Reads and clears the Command error Register (CMR).
CONET COMM_NET Specifies network addresses of scope and printers.
CONET? COMM_NET? Specifies network addresses of scope and printers.
CRMS? CURSOR_MEASURE?
CRSC? CURSOR_MSOURCE?
CRTY? CURSOR_TYPE?
CSVS Saves specified waveform data of CSV format to USB device.
CSVS? Saves specified waveform data of CSV format to USB device.
CUS:H8 CUSTOM:H8
CUS:L8 CUSTOM:L8
CYMT? CYMOMETER? Returns the current cymometer value which displaying on the screen
D0:ACT D0:ACTIVATED
D0:PAVA? D0:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D0:TRA D0:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D0:TRSL D0:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D0:TRSL? D0:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D0:WF? D0:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D1:ACT D1:ACTIVATED
D1:PAVA? D1:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D1:TRA D1:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D1:TRSL D1:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D1:TRSL? D1:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D1:WF? D1:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D10:ACT D10:ACTIVATED
D10:PAVA? D10:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D10:TRA D10:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D10:TRSL D10:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D10:TRSL? D10:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D10:WF? D10:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D11:ACT D11:ACTIVATED
D11:PAVA? D11:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D11:TRA D11:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D11:TRSL D11:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D11:TRSL? D11:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D11:WF? D11:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D12:ACT D12:ACTIVATED
D12:PAVA? D12:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D12:TRA D12:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D12:TRSL D12:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D12:TRSL? D12:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D12:WF? D12:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D13:ACT D13:ACTIVATED
D13:PAVA? D13:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D13:TRA D13:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D13:TRSL D13:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D13:TRSL? D13:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D13:WF? D13:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D14:ACT D14:ACTIVATED
D14:PAVA? D14:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D14:TRA D14:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D14:TRSL D14:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D14:TRSL? D14:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D14:WF? D14:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D15:ACT D15:ACTIVATED
D15:PAVA? D15:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D15:TRA D15:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D15:TRSL D15:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D15:TRSL? D15:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D15:WF? D15:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D2:ACT D2:ACTIVATED
D2:PAVA? D2:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D2:TRA D2:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D2:TRSL D2:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D2:TRSL? D2:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D2:WF? D2:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D3:ACT D3:ACTIVATED
D3:PAVA? D3:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D3:TRA D3:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D3:TRSL D3:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D3:TRSL? D3:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D3:WF? D3:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D4:ACT D4:ACTIVATED
D4:PAVA? D4:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D4:TRA D4:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D4:TRSL D4:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D4:TRSL? D4:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D4:WF? D4:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D5:ACT D5:ACTIVATED
D5:PAVA? D5:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D5:TRA D5:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D5:TRSL D5:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D5:TRSL? D5:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D5:WF? D5:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D6:ACT D6:ACTIVATED
D6:PAVA? D6:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D6:TRA D6:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D6:TRSL D6:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D6:TRSL? D6:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D6:WF? D6:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D7:ACT D7:ACTIVATED
D7:PAVA? D7:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D7:TRA D7:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D7:TRSL D7:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D7:TRSL? D7:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D7:WF? D7:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D8:ACT D8:ACTIVATED
D8:PAVA? D8:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D8:TRA D8:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D8:TRSL D8:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D8:TRSL? D8:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D8:WF? D8:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
D9:ACT D9:ACTIVATED
D9:PAVA? D9:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
D9:TRA D9:TRACE? Enables or disables the display of a trace.
D9:TRSL D9:TRIG_SLOPE Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D9:TRSL? D9:TRIG_SLOPE? Sets the trigger slope of the specified trigger source
D9:WF? D9:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
DAC:SAVE
DAC_CODE
DAC_CODE?
DCDI? DeCo_Digital?
DCPA DeCo_Param
DCST DeCo_Status
DCST? DeCo_STatus
DCVL?
DDR Clears the Device Dependent Register (DDR).
DDR? Clears the Device Dependent Register (DDR).
DEF? DEFINE? Specifies math expression for function evaluation
DFKS Default Key
DI:ACQVD? DIGITAL:ACQ_VALID?
DI:ADCM DIGITAL:ADC_MODE
DI:BV? DIGITAL:BOM_VERSION?
DI:CALM DIGITAL:CALI_MODE
DI:CH CHANNEL_HEIGHT
DI:CMF? DIGITAL:CMD_FINISHED?
DI:DES DIGITAL:DESKEW
DI:DTAN DIGITAL:DATA_ANALY
DI:DTANF? DIGITAL:DATA_ANALY_FLAG?
DI:ECLAI DIGITAL:ECLAI_DATA
DI:EXTV DIGITAL:EXTV
DI:FR? DIGITAL:FREQ?
DI:FV? DIGITAL:FPGA_VERSION?
DI:H8 DIGITAL:HIGH8_SWITCH
DI:HISM? DIGITAL:HIST_MODE
DI:IDTANF DIGITAL:INT_DATA_ANALY_FLAG
DI:KC DIGITAL:KNOB_CONTROL
DI:L8 DIGITAL:LOW8_SWICHT
DI:LCALI? DIGITAL:LCALI_DATA?
DI:LTV? DIGITAL:LOCAL_VALID?
DI:MEAST? DIGITAL_MEASURE_STATUS
DI:MSTM DIGITAL:MASTER_MODE
DI:MTHRED DIGITAL:MTHRED
DI:MTHRED? DIGITAL:MTHRED?
DI:PRBW DIGITAL:PRO_BWL
DI:PV? DIGITAL:PCB_VERSION?
DI:RDDR? DIGITAL:RESET_DDR
DI:RDON DIGITAL:READ_DATA_ONCE
DI:SARA? DIGITAL:SAMPLE_RATE? The SARA? query returns the sample rate of the scope.
DI:SKEW DIGITAL:ADC_SKEW
DI:SLFM DIGITAL:SELF_MODE
DI:SRLN DIGITAL:SERIAL_NUMBER
DI:SRLN? DIGITAL:SERIAL_NUMBER?
DI:STOP DIGITAL:STOP
DI:STPA? DIGITAL:STOP_ACQ?
DI:STTA? DIGITAL:START_ACQ?
DI:SV? DIGITAL:SOFTWARE_VERSION?
DI:SW DIGITAL:SWITCH The SWITCH command is used to set the state of digital.
DI:SW? DIGITAL:SWITCH? The SWITCH command is used to set the state of digital.
DI:SWID? DIGITAL_SWITCH_INDEX?
DI:TDIVF DIGITAL:TDIV_FLAG
DI:THAD DIGITAL:THREADJ
DI:THAD? DIGITAL:THREADJ?
DI:TRCP DIGITAL:TRIG_COUPL
DI:UPIN DIGITAL:UPDATE_PREVIEW_INFO
DI:UTC DIGITAL:USBTMC_CONNECTED
DI:WF? DIGITAL:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
DI:WSR? DIGITAL:WAIT_STOP?
DMESg?
DSCL DISPLAY_CLEAR
DTJN DOT_JOIN Controls the interpolation lines between data points.
DTJN? DOT_JOIN? Controls the interpolation lines between data points.
DUTYCALI DUTYCALIBRATION
EMOD EDUMODE
EMOD? EDUMODE?
EQN
EX:TRCP EX:TRIG_COUPLING
EX:TRCP? EX:TRIG_COUPLING?
EX:TRLV EX:TRIG_LEVEL
EX:TRLV? EX:TRIG_LEVEL?
EX:TRLV2 EX:TRIG_LEVEL2
EX:TRLV2? EX:TRIG_LEVEL2?
EX:TRSL EX:TRIG_SLOPE
EX:TRSL? EX:TRIG_SLOPE?
EX5:TRCP EX5:TRIG_COUPLING
EX5:TRCP? EX5:TRIG_COUPLING?
EX5:TRLV EX5:TRIG_LEVEL
EX5:TRLV? EX5:TRIG_LEVEL?
EX5:TRLV2 EX5:TRIG_LEVEL2
EX5:TRLV2? EX5:TRIG_LEVEL2?
EX5:TRSL EX5:TRIG_SLOPE
EX5:TRSL? EX5:TRIG_SLOPE?
EXDL EXT_TRIGDELAY
EXDL:SAVE
EXLV EXT_TRIGLEVEL
EXR Reads, clears the Execution error Register (EXR).
EXR? Reads, clears the Execution error Register (EXR).
EXT:SAVE
EXTCT:SAVE
FCNT FREQCOUNTER Sets or gets frequency counter parameters.
FCNT? FREQCOUNTER? Sets or gets frequency counter parameters.
FCNTCALI FREQCOUNTERCALIBRATION
FDBKAJT FEEDBACKAJUST
FFTA FFT_AUTOSET
FFTC FFT_CENTER The FFT_CENTER command sets the center frequency when FFT (Fast Fourier Transform) is selected.
FFTC? FFT_CENTER?
FFTD FFT_DISPLAY
FFTD? FFT_DISPLAY?
FFTF FFT_FULLSCREEN Enables or disables to display the FFT trace full screen.
FFTF? FFT_FULLSCREEN? Enables or disables to display the FFT trace full screen.
FFTP FFT_POS The FFT_POSITION command sets the vertical offset of FFT waveform
FFTP? FFT_POS? The FFT_POSITION command sets the vertical offset of FFT waveform
FFTS FFT_SCALE Selects the vertical scale of FFT trace.
FFTS? FFT_SCALE? Selects the vertical scale of FFT trace.
FFTT FFT_TDIV The FFT_TDIV? query returns current horizontal scale of FFT waveform.
FFTT? FFT_TDIV? The FFT_TDIV? query returns current horizontal scale of FFT waveform.
FFTU FFT_UNIT The FFT_UNIT command sets the vertical scale type of FFT
FFTU? FFT_UNIT? The FFT_UNIT command sets the vertical scale type of FFT
FFTW FFT_WINDOW Selects the window of FFT.
FFTW? FFT_WINDOW? Selects the window of FFT.
FPAR? FRAME_PARAM? Get frame param.
FRAM? FRAME_SET? Get frame param.
FRSPAJT FREQRESPAJUST
FTIM? FRAME_TIME?
GRDS GRID_DISPLAY Selects the type of grid
GRDS? GRID_DISPLAY? Selects the type of grid
H8:CUS H8:CUSTOM The CUSTOM command sets the threshold value by customer for the specified group of channels
H8:CUS? H8:CUSTOM? The CUSTOM command sets the threshold value by customer for the specified group of channels
H8:TSM H8:THRESHOLD_MODE The THRESHOLD_MODE command sets the threshold type for the specified group of channels.
H8:TSM? H8:THRESHOLD_MODE? The THRESHOLD_MODE command sets the threshold type for the specified group of channels.
HARM?
HMAG HOR_MAGNIFY Horizontally expands the selected expansion trace.
HMAG? HOR_MAGNIFY? Horizontally expands the selected expansion trace.
HPOS HOR_POSITION Horizontally positions intensified zone‘s center.
HPOS? HOR_POSITION? Horizontally positions intensified zone‘s center.
HSIN? HISTORY_INTERVAL?
HSLST? HISTORY_LIST? The HISTORY_LIST command is used to set the state of history list.
HSMD? HISTORY_MODE? The HISTORY_MODE command is used to set the state of history mode.
HSR_BOTEST?
HSR_DAC:SET
HSR_EXTCT:SAVE HSR_EXTCENTER:SAVE
HSR_EXTDT:SAVE HSR_EXTDELAY:SAVE
HSST? HISTORY_STATE?
HSTA HOR_STATE
HSTA? HOR_STATE?
IDN-SGLT-AWG?
IDN-SGLT-PRI?
INNEr:PRODuction:MODE
INR Reads, clears INternal state change Register (INR).
INR? Reads, clears INternal state change Register (INR).
INTS INTENSITY Sets the grid or trace/text intensity level.
INTS? INTENSITY? Sets the grid or trace/text intensity level.
INVT INVERT
INVT? INVERT?
K7DUMP Related to the program memory for the main FPGA, unsure how its used.
K7DUMP?
L8:CUS L8:CUSTOM
L8:CUS? L8:CUSTOM?
L8:TSM L8:THRESHOLD_MODE
L8:TSM? L8:THRESHOLD_MODE?
LAGG LANGUAGE
LAGG? LANGUAGE?
LANG LANGUAGE
LANG? LANGUAGE?
LCISL LICENCE_INSTALL
LCISL? LICENCE_INSTALL?
LED?
LICENSE
LICENSE?
LICENSE_ID?
LICENSE_KEY
LICENSE_PR?
LINE:TRCP LINE:TRIG_COUPLING
LINE:TRCP? LINE:TRIG_COUPLING?
LINE:TRSL LINE:TRIG_SLOPE
LINE:TRSL? LINE:TRIG_SLOPE?
LOAD:CALI:FILE?
MATH:CRVA? MATH:CURSOR_VALUE? Returns trace values measured by specified cursors.
MATH:INVS MATH:INVERT_SET Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
MATH:INVS? MATH:INVERT_SET? Invert the trace or the math waveform of specified source.
MATH:PAVA? MATH:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
MATH:WF? MATH:WAVEFORM? Gets the waveform from the instrument.
MCBD? MACHINE_BAND?
MD5_PR?
MD5_SRLN?
MDID MATH_DIFF_DX
MDWV? MODULATEWAVE?
MEASTAT MEAASURE_STATUS
MENU Enables or disables to display the current menu
MENU? Enables or disables to display the current menu
MMEMORY:UPLoad?
MODE?
MSIZ MEMORY_SIZE Returns the maximal memory size
MSIZ? MEMORY_SIZE? Returns the maximal memory size
MSSTAT MEASURE_SOURCE_STAT
MTEN MATH_ENABLE
MTEN? MATH_ENABLE?
MTVD MATH_VERT_DIV Controls the vertical sensitivity of math waveform of specified source.
MTVD? MATH_VERT_DIV? Controls the vertical sensitivity of math waveform of specified source.
MTVP MATH_VERT_POS Controls the vertical position of math waveform of specified source.
MTVP? MATH_VERT_POS Controls the vertical position of math waveform of specified source.
NBFM NUMBER_FORMAT
NBFM? NUMBER_FORMAT?
NET_BRIDGE_ADDR?
OUTP OUTPUT
OUTP? OUTPUT?
PACL PARAMETER_CLEAR Clears all current parameters in Custom, Pass/Fail.
PACP PARACOPY
PACU PARAMETER_CUSTOM Controls parameters with customizable qualifiers.
PASTAT Parameter Statistics switch
PASTAT? Parameter Statistics switch
PECL PERSIST_CLEAR
PESU PERSIST_SETUP Selects display persistence duration.
PESU? PERSIST_SETUP? Selects display persistence duration.
PFBF PF_BUFFER The PF_BUFFER command sets the output mode when the test fails.
PFBF? PF_BUFFER? The PF_BUFFER command sets the output mode when the test fails.
PFCM PF_CREATEM Creates the mask of the pass/fail.
PFDD? PF_DATADIS? Return the number of the pass/fail monitor which can be displayed on the screen
PFDS PF_DISPLAY Enables or disables to display the test and the message options of pass/fail
PFDS? PF_DISPLAY? Enables or disables to display the test and the message options of pass/fail
PFEN PF_ENABLE The PF_ENABLE command enables or disables the Pass/Fail test features.
PFEN? PF_ENABLE? The PF_ENABLE command enables or disables the Pass/Fail test features.
PFFS PF_FAIL_STOP The PF_FAIL_STOP command sets the switch of the ―stop on fail‖ function
PFFS? PF_FAIL_STOP? The PF_FAIL_STOP command sets the switch of the ―stop on fail‖ function
PFOP PF_OPERATION The PF_OPERATION command controls to run or stop Pass/Fail test
PFOP? PF_OPERATION? The PF_OPERATION command controls to run or stop Pass/Fail test
PFSC PF_SOURCE The PF_SOURCE command sets measurement sources for Pass/Fail test.
PFSC? PF_SOURCE? The PF_SOURCE command sets measurement sources for Pass/Fail test.
PFST PS_SET Sets the X mask and the Y mask
PFST? PS_SET? Sets the X mask and the Y mask
PNSU? PANEL_SETUP? Complements the *SAV/*RST commands.
PRBD? PRODUCT_BAND?
PRINTCALI PRINTCALIBRATION
PRO_SRLN?
PROD PRODUCT
PROD? PRODUCT?
RCPN RECALL_PANEL Recalls a front-panel setup from mass storage.
REBOOT
REFA:PAVA? REFA:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
REFA:REFSC? REFA:REF_SCALE?
REFB:PAVA? REFB:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
REFC:PAVA? REFC:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
REFCL REF_CLOSE The REF_CLOSE command closes the Reference function.
REFD:PAVA? REFD:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
REFDS REF_DISPLAY The REF_DISPLAY command enables or disables the current reference channel shown on the screen.
REFDS? REF_DISPLAY? The REF_DISPLAY command enables or disables the current reference channel shown on the screen.
REFLA REF_LOCATION The REF_LOCATION command selects the current reference channel.
REFLA? REF_LOCATION? The REF_LOCATION command selects the current reference channel.
REFPO REF_POSITION The REF_POSITION command sets the vertical offset of the current reference channel.
REFPO? REF_POSITION? The REF_POSITION command sets the vertical offset of the current reference channel.
REFSA REF_SAVE The REF_SAVE command saves the waveform (screen range) of the specified source as the reference waveform
REFSC REF_SCALE The REF_SCALE command sets the vertical scale of the current reference channel
REFSR REF_SOURCE The REF_SOURCE command sets the reference waveform source.
REFSR? REF_SOURCE? The REF_SOURCE command sets the reference waveform source.
RESETADC
RFLASH READFLASH
RFLASHBLK READFLASHBLOCK
ROLL
ROSC ROSCILLATOR Sets or gets the clock source.
ROSC? ROSCILLATOR? Sets or gets the clock source.
RPSC REGISTER_PRODUCT_SCPI_CMD
RPSC? REGISTER_PRODUCT_SCPI_CMD?
SANU? Sample_Number? Return the number of sampled points available from last acquisition and the trigger position
SARA? Sample_Rate? Return the sample rate of the scope
SAST SAMPLE_STATUS Return the acquisition status of the scope
SAST? SAMPLE_STATUS? Return the acquisition status of the scope
SAVECALI
SCDP Causes a screen dump to controller.
SCFG SYSTEMCONFIG Set or get power on initializing parameter way.
SCFG? SYSTEMCONFIG? Set or get power on initializing parameter way.
SCOPEID? SCOPE_ID?
SCSV SCREEN_SAVE Controls the automatic screen saver.
SCSV? SCREEN_SAVE? Controls the automatic screen saver.
SELFCALI SELFCALIBRATION
SET50
SGLT-TEST-VAST-DATA
SGLT-TEST-VAST-DATA?
SGLT-UPGRADE
SHELLCMD
SRLN
SRLN?
SRLN2MAC
SRLN-AWG
STAT:OPER:COND? STATus:OPERation:CONDition?
STAT:OPER:ENAB STATus:OPERation:ENABle
STAT:OPER[:EVEN]? STATus:OPERation[:EVENt]?
STAT:PRES STATus:PRESet
STAT:QUES:COND? STATus:QUEStionable:CONDition?
STAT:QUES:ENAB STATus:QUEStionable:ENABle
STAT:QUES[:EVEN]? STATus:QUEStionable[:EVENt]?
STL? STORELIST?
STPN STORE_PANEL Stores front-panel setup to mass storage.
SAVEAJUSTDATA
SVNALL?
SWWV? SWEEPWAVE?
SXSA SinXx_Sample Sets the type of the interpolation
SXSA? SinXx_Sample? Sets the type of the interpolation
SY_FP
SYNC
SYNC?
SYST:COMM:LAN:GAT SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:GATeway Set the gateway for the signal generator in the network. The gateway will be fetched automatically if the IP assignment is set to DHCP.
SYST:COMM:LAN:GAT? SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:GATeway? Set the gateway for the signal generator in the network. The gateway will be fetched automatically if the IP assignment is set to DHCP.
SYST:COMM:LAN:IPAD SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:IPADdress Set a host name for the signal generator in network
SYST:COMM:LAN:IPAD? SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:IPADdress? Set a host name for the signal generator in network
SYST:COMM:LAN:MAC? SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:MAC?
SYST:COMM:LAN:SMAS SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:SMASk Set the subnet mask according to the PC network Settings. The subnet mask will be set automatically if the IP assignment is set to DHCP.
SYST:COMM:LAN:SMAS? SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:SMASk? Set the subnet mask according to the PC network Settings. The subnet mask will be set automatically if the IP assignment is set to DHCP.
SYST:COMM:LAN:TYPE SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:TYPE Toggles the IP assignment Setting between static (manual) and DHCP (dynamic assignment) mode.
SYST:COMM:LAN:TYPE? SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:TYPE? Toggles the IP assignment Setting between static (manual) and DHCP (dynamic assignment) mode.
SYST:COUN? SYSTem:COUNt? System power on count
SYST:DATE SYSTem:DATE
SYST:DATE? SYSTem:DATE?
SYST:ERR? SYSTtem:ERRor?
SYST:FDEF SYSTem:FDEFault
SYST:PON:TYPE SYSTem:PON:TYPE Uses command to set signal generator to power on in default, last. Get power on type.
SYST:PON:TYPE? SYSTem:PON:TYPE? Uses command to set signal generator to power on in default, last. Get power on type.
SYST:PRES SYSTem:PRESet Presets all parameters.
SYST:PRES:TYPE SYSTem:PRESet:TYPE Set preset file when preset type is user
SYST:PRES:TYPE? SYSTem:PRESet:TYPE? Set preset file when preset type is user
SYST:TIME SYSTem:TIME
SYST:TIME? SYSTem:TIME?
SYST:VERS? SYSTem:VERSion?
SYSTem:FileSystem:Type? SYSTem:FileSystem:Type?
TDIV TIME_DIV Modifies the time base setting.
TDIV? TIME_DIV? Modifies the time base setting.
TMPL TEMPLATE Produces a complete waveform template copy.
TMPL? TEMPLATE? Produces a complete waveform template copy.
TRCAN TRIG_CAN
TRCAN? TRIG_CAN?
TRCP TRIG_COUPLING
TRCP? TRIG_COUPLING?
TRDL TRig_DeLay Sets the time at which the trigger is to occur.
TRDL? TRig_DeLay? Sets the time at which the trigger is to occur.
TRDP? TRIG_DROP?
TREG? ACQ1
TREG? ACQ2
TREG? MAP
TRFSM TRIG_FSM
TRFSM? TRIG_FSM?
TRIIC TRIG_IIC
TRIIC? TRIG_IIC?
TRLIN TRIG_LIN
TRLIN? TRIG_LIN?
TRLV TRIG_LEVEL
TRLV? TRIG_LEVEL?
TRMD TRIG_MODE The trigger mode.
TRMD? TRIG_MODE? The trigger mode.
TRNR TRIG_NOISEREJ
TRNR? TRIG_NOISEREJ?
TRPA TRIG_PATTERN Sets the condition of the pattern trigger
TRPA? TRIG_PATTERN? Sets the condition of the pattern trigger
TRPH TRIG_PATTERN_HOLDOFF
TRPH? TRIG_PATTERN_HOLDOFF?
TRPH?
TRPT TRIG_PATTERN_LIMIT
TRPT? TRIG_PATTERN_LIMIT?
TRSE TRIG_SELECT Selects the condition that will trigger acquisition.
TRSE? TRIG_SELECT? Selects the condition that will trigger acquisition.
TRSPI TRIG_SPI
TRSPI? TRIG_SPI?
TRSR TRIG_SOURCE Trigger Source
TRSR? TRIG_SOURCE? Trigger Source
TRST TRIG_STATUS
TRST? TRIG_STATUS?
TRTY TRIG_TYPE
TRUART TRIG_UART
TRUART? TRIG_UART?
TRWI TRIG_WINDOW Return relative height of the trigger window
TRWI? TRIG_WINDOW? Return relative height of the trigger window
USBDATA?
VECD VECTORS_DISPLAY
VECD? VECTORS_DISPLAY?
VKEY VIRTUALKEY Set the virtual key.
VOLTPRT? Sets or gets state of over-voltage protection
WEB:PSW
WEB:PSW?
WF WAVEFORM
WFDA? WF_DATA? saves waveform data to user folder on device
WFLASHBLK WRITEFLASHBLOCK
WFSU WAVEFORM_SETUP Specifies amount of waveform data to go to controller
WFSU? WAVEFORM_SETUP? Specifies amount of waveform data to go to controller
WRFLASHBLK WRITEREADFLASHBLOCK
WVDA WAVEDATA Get the wave data of store .
WVPR WAVEPARAMETER The WAVE_PARA? query returns the location, name, frequency, amplitude, and offset of four arbitrary waveforms.
WVPR? WAVEPARAMETER? The WAVE_PARA? query returns the location, name, frequency, amplitude, and offset of four arbitrary waveforms.
XYDS XY_DiSplay Enables or disables to display the XY format
XYDS? XY_DiSplay? Enables or disables to display the XY format
Z1:PAVA? Z1:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
Z2:PAVA? Z2:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
Z3:PAVA? Z3:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
Z4:PAVA? Z4:PARAMETER_VALUE Returns current parameter, mask test values
Just 3 that pop out for me:
And sadly no sign of bode plot commands for me.
ROSC is the signal generators clock source, either the internal oscillator, or I would imagine aux port on the SAG1021,OK.
Waveform is the command to export a raw export of a given channel, I am working with EEZstudio to make it directly export to CSV, in reality there is no reason why the webserver could not do this either.
SWWV is one of the operating mode of the signal generator option, in reality the devices bode plot works off BSWV (BasicWave), sets the frequency, measures then sets the next.
What i was after was a command that would put it in a bode plot mode with the parameters exposed so I could set the center, span, etc via scpi,Ah, gotcha.
28 KB_FUNC1
23 KB_FUNC2
18 KB_FUNC3
13 KB_FUNC4
8 KB_FUNC5
3 KB_FUNC6
48 KB_NUMBER_0
49 KB_NUMBER_1
50 KB_NUMBER_2
51 KB_NUMBER_3
52 KB_NUMBER_4
53 KB_NUMBER_5
54 KB_NUMBER_6
55 KB_NUMBER_7
56 KB_NUMBER_8
57 KB_NUMBER_9
46 KB_POINT
43 KB_NEGATIVE
15 KB_MOD
16 KB_SWEEP
17 KB_BURST
5 KB_PARAMETER
11 KB_UTILITY
70 KB_STORE_RECALL
4 KB_WAVES
72 KB_CHANNEL
177 KB_KNOB_LEFT
175 KB_KNOB_RIGHT
176 KB_KNOB_DOWN
44 KB_LEFT
40 KB_RIGHT
153 KB_OUTPUT1
152 KB_OUTPUT2
While your at it, a workaround I was trying also fell short, The "VKEY" (VIRTUALKEY) command does not work, With this I could have essentially typed in the keys to accomplish it in a roundabout way.Can I ask you to document it and drop it into this thread please:
I don't actually own a sdg810, it was just the only manual I could find with an example string for the command.OK, never mind then as it's best to have bonafide reports from those that actually have such equipment just in case tech support needs further info from the owner.
If you still wish me to write it up there, then I shall.
What that code does is appear on the network as a siglent signal generator, the scope then sends it commands as it would to an actual device, the PC then converts these commands and spits it back out to the other brand device in the correct format for that device, over USB or ethernet.I know. ;)
The scope pretty much sends commands like "Generate a 10Hz Wave", measure for 1 acquisition period, "Generate a 12Hz Wave, measure... etc,
In the video this is the "C1:BSWV FREQ,10" line where you see the number counting up. I "think" the device then grabs the same value as "C1:PAVA? PKPK" to plot amplitude, and C1-C2:MEAD? to plot phase.
I've been playing with the SAG1021 to better learn its limits, And at this point I am starting to think up how I might script it, but would still be nice to have commands for it
What i was after was a command that would put it in a bode plot mode with the parameters exposed so I could set the center, span, etc via scpi,Officially; Bode plot SCPI command set: totally unsupported at this time.
When I the click on instrument Control the black background appears immidiately and the address http://192.168.251.1xx/Instrument/novnc/vnc_auto.php. (http://192.168.251.1xx/Instrument/novnc/vnc_auto.php.)I had the same issue when I did a firmware upgrade but missed the software upgrade.
Right after that a red line appears below the address field and a note saying WebSock error: [object Event] .... nothing
Correct, there were issues with the early webserver but later with the new OS update and V7.6.1.25R2 firmware, the webserver was changed to a better format and connection problems fixed.When I the click on instrument Control the black background appears immidiately and the address http://192.168.251.1xx/Instrument/novnc/vnc_auto.php. (http://192.168.251.1xx/Instrument/novnc/vnc_auto.php.)I had the same issue when I did a firmware upgrade but missed the software upgrade.
Right after that a red line appears below the address field and a note saying WebSock error: [object Event] .... nothing
After doing the software update everything is fine.
Hi,:-+
my software revision is indeed the 7.0.6.1.26 .... so I downloaded the OS zip-file.
Now I just need to get me a 8G or 32G USB stick.
Thanks alot and I´ll report if that solved my prob.
Calvin
Hello, I have purchased a SDS1204X-E 4CH oscilloscope and I have the following problem:With difficult to trigger non-repetitive signals Trigger Holdoff can make all the difference and allow for 'rock solid' triggering.
I place a 36 MHz 3 cycles burst in channel 1 and everything works ok until I enable channel 2. In that moment the trigger becomes erratic, randomly jumping between the first and the second edge of the signal.
The problem coincides with the fact that the oscilloscope changes the sampling rate from 1 Gs/s to 500 Ms/s when I enable channel 2.
The same happens when I have only channel 1 enabled (1Gs/s) but the signal has more than 72 MHz.
I updated firmware from SDS1004X-E_6.1.25R2_EN to SDS1004X-E_6.1.26_EN and the problem persits.
best regards,
Hello, I have purchased a SDS1204X-E 4CH oscilloscope and I have the following problem:
I place a 36 MHz 3 cycles burst in channel 1 and everything works ok until I enable channel 2. In that moment the trigger becomes erratic, randomly jumping between the first and the second edge of the signal.
The problem coincides with the fact that the oscilloscope changes the sampling rate from 1 Gs/s to 500 Ms/s when I enable channel 2.
The same happens when I have only channel 1 enabled (1Gs/s) but the signal has more than 72 MHz.
You can see the problem here: https://youtu.be/stSIxn6YvJU
I updated firmware from SDS1004X-E_6.1.25R2_EN to SDS1004X-E_6.1.26_EN and the problem persits.
best regards,
Hello, I have purchased a SDS1204X-E 4CH oscilloscope and I have the following problem:With difficult to trigger non-repetitive signals Trigger Holdoff can make all the difference and allow for 'rock solid' triggering.
I place a 36 MHz 3 cycles burst in channel 1 and everything works ok until I enable channel 2. In that moment the trigger becomes erratic, randomly jumping between the first and the second edge of the signal.
The problem coincides with the fact that the oscilloscope changes the sampling rate from 1 Gs/s to 500 Ms/s when I enable channel 2.
The same happens when I have only channel 1 enabled (1Gs/s) but the signal has more than 72 MHz.
I updated firmware from SDS1004X-E_6.1.25R2_EN to SDS1004X-E_6.1.26_EN and the problem persits.
best regards,
Holdoff is default to Close (80ns) so lengthen it to just greater than the length of the burst and if needed you can extend it to a max of 1.5s.
Tell us if that works.
Hi,
while trying out the webserver control I got an issue.
When doing history at first the monitor picture updated as its supposed to do, but when I switched to full screen it stopped.
From then on even with new starts of the webserver and the scope the picture didn´t update history frames at all.
All else -the normal scopeing via webserver- worked ok.
The scope´s own controls worked fine also .... so its just the history mode which seems to have issues.
regards
Calvin
So I have been having trouble connecting my scope to my wifi network. I have correctly entered in all software keys so that the wifi option is enabled. I have also updated to the most recent firmware version 7.1.6.1.26. I am using the siglent official TP-Link TL-WN725N wifi adapter and the device recognizes this adapter when it is plugged in (the little green LED also blinks).That all sounds OK.
My DHCP setting is turned on.
When I enter in the wifi network name and password (which I have verified are both correct many times), it says "connecting" and then it will fail to connect with the message "WLAN connection failed". Figuring that maybe it was a bad wifi adapter, I plugged it into my desktop and successfully connected to that same WIFI network without problems.Yes, initially when the IP configuration is incorrect, it appears to get a connection and then it's quickly lost.
I have no idea what to do next. I have tried resetting my router, changing the name of the wifi network, changing the wifi network password, reflashing the firmware on the scope, and a number of other things. What should my next step be?Ensure your SSID and PSK are correct first.
:phew: Good, you got there.
EDIT #2: I have finally connected via WiFi. The SSID cannot have any spaces or special characters, in my case. The PSK also cannot have any spaces or special characters, and must be less than 20 characters long. Also the IP address must be set manually.
That is a pretty ridiculous set of demands for this device, and hamstrings it's utility in a commercial/research environment where the user does not necessarily have such tight control over the SSID or PSK that they use to connect to WIFI. This definitely needs to be addressed in an update.
I have performed all of the aforementioned tasks suggested by tautech while sitting right next to my router and still no luck.
Is it possible that the problem is that my SSID has spaces in it?
EDIT: changing SSID to have no spaces, special characters, and less than 20 characters did not fix the problem.
EDIT #2: I have finally connected via WiFi. The SSID cannot have any spaces or special characters, in my case. The PSK also cannot have any spaces or special characters, and must be less than 20 characters long. Also the IP address must be set manually.
That is a pretty ridiculous set of demands for this device, and hamstrings it's utility in a commercial/research environment where the user does not necessarily have such tight control over the SSID or PSK that they use to connect to WIFI. This definitely needs to be addressed in an update.
I purchased a SDS1104X-E in November in Australia and it has the following:
software version: 8.0.6.1.26
fpga version: 2018-07-26
hardware version: 01-03
I purchased a SDS1104X-E in November in Australia and it has the following:
software version: 8.0.6.1.26
fpga version: 2018-07-26
hardware version: 01-03
Interesting... ::)
Can you send me a copy of the .app file?
any chance you could pm me a copy aswell?
any chance you could pm me a copy aswell?
Sure. Done.
Command syntax:
$$SY_FP <key>, <value>
For buttons, any integer is a press,
For knobs, a value of -1 is decrement, 0 is the button, 1 is increment, higher numbers correspond to moving that amount, e.g. 200 would be 200 clicks
keys:
0 - Menu Clear Button
1 - Function 1 (left most key on bottom of screen)
2 - Function 2
3 - Function 3
4 - Function 4
5 - Function 5
6 - Function 6
7 - Timebase (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
10 - Timebase Offset (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
11 - Autosetup Button
12 - Run / Stop Button
13 - Default Button
15 - Intensity (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
16 - Trigger Level (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
17 - Auto Trigger Button
18 - Trigger Button
19 - Normal Trigger Button
20 - Single Trigger Button
22 - Cursors Button
23 - Display / Persist button
24 - Utility Button
25 - Print Button
26 - Measure Button
27 - Aqcuire Button
28 - Save/Recall Button
29 - Decode Button
30 - Digital Button
31 - Math Button
32 - Reference Button
35 - Channel 1 VDIV (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
36 - Channel 2 VDIV (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
37 - Channel 3 VDIV (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
38 - Channel 4 VDIV (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
39 - Channel 1 Button
40 - Channel 2 Button
41 - Channel 3 Button
42 - Channel 4 Button
43 - Channel 1 Offset (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
44 - Channel 2 Offset (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
45 - Channel 3 Offset (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
46 - Channel 4 Offset (Decrease -1/ 0 Button / Increase 1)
47 - Clear Sweeps Button
48 - History Button
49 - Roll Button
50 - Search Button
51 - Navigate Button
52 - Left Navigation Button
53 - Stop Navigate Button
54 - Right Navigate Button
I have been trying for a bit to get wifi working on my network with the siglent, it just doesn't seem to want to connect for some reason - right IP settings, right network, right PSK..Most likely.
Could it be non alphanumerics in the PSK?
I have been trying for a bit to get wifi working on my network with the siglent, it just doesn't seem to want to connect for some reason - right IP settings, right network, right PSK..Most likely.
Could it be non alphanumerics in the PSK?
See reply #1121
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2039518/#msg2039518 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2039518/#msg2039518)
OK, have you read my guide in Reply #1120 ?I have been trying for a bit to get wifi working on my network with the siglent, it just doesn't seem to want to connect for some reason - right IP settings, right network, right PSK..Most likely.
Could it be non alphanumerics in the PSK?
See reply #1121
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2039518/#msg2039518 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2039518/#msg2039518)
Nope - tried it with just alphanumerics, no joy. I use google wifi at home. Tried DHCP and manually setting IP, Tried different PSKs (with and without "special" characters. Looked into the web interface for stuff I may have missed - nope.
OK, have you read my guide in Reply #1120 ?I have been trying for a bit to get wifi working on my network with the siglent, it just doesn't seem to want to connect for some reason - right IP settings, right network, right PSK..Most likely.
Could it be non alphanumerics in the PSK?
See reply #1121
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2039518/#msg2039518 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2039518/#msg2039518)
Nope - tried it with just alphanumerics, no joy. I use google wifi at home. Tried DHCP and manually setting IP, Tried different PSKs (with and without "special" characters. Looked into the web interface for stuff I may have missed - nope.
You have WiFi selected but the WiFi indicator is grayed out ?
You change the IP settings in LAN and leave DHCP OFF then enter your WiFi settings into the WiFi sub menu.
And you're close to your WiFi source and pressed 'Connect' ?OK, have you read my guide in Reply #1120 ?I have been trying for a bit to get wifi working on my network with the siglent, it just doesn't seem to want to connect for some reason - right IP settings, right network, right PSK..Most likely.
Could it be non alphanumerics in the PSK?
See reply #1121
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2039518/#msg2039518 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2039518/#msg2039518)
Nope - tried it with just alphanumerics, no joy. I use google wifi at home. Tried DHCP and manually setting IP, Tried different PSKs (with and without "special" characters. Looked into the web interface for stuff I may have missed - nope.
You have WiFi selected but the WiFi indicator is grayed out ?
You change the IP settings in LAN and leave DHCP OFF then enter your WiFi settings into the WiFi sub menu.
Yep - done all of that - Wifi indicator greyed out, "not connected"
less than 5m from a wifi point, and hit connect.OK, what have we missed ? :-//
On the latest firmwareYep, mentioned in reply #1121.
Wifi dongle is the TP-Link TL-WN725N
Licensing is permanent
SDS 1104x-e will pick up the SSID via manual search in the wifi menu
Tried Static and DHCP
Positive the password is correct
Tried password without alphanumerics
SSID has spaces in it? could be the issue?
Bit - LED lit
1 - AWG Output
2 -?
3 -?
4 -?
5 -?
6 - Stop Red Led
7 - Run Green Led
8 - Single Trigger Button
9 - Normal Trigger Button
10 - Auto Trigger Button
11 - History Button
12 - Decode Button
13 - Search Button
14 - Roll Button
15 - References Button
16 - Math Button
17 - Measure Button
18 - Cursors Button
19 - Digital Button?
20 - Channel 4 Button
21 - Channel 3 Button
22 - Channel 2 Button
23 - Channel 1 Button
24 - Intensity Adjust LED
When you save a setup to an internal memory location (i.e, #1) and then recall it, the v/Div does not recall properly if you were using fine scale, and also if the Trigger level was set for -150 volts (using a 100:1 probe) the trigger level recalls as -250volts when the setup file is recalled. That is very frustrating, but for I use it for, my control software easily compensates for that.
Dave
Any news on when the next version is likely to roll out Tautech?None at all sorry and I’m in Perth for a couple of weeks.
Also If I'm not mistaken bode plot mode seems to temporarily put external signal generators into full bandwidth option mode,Ohhh, that is worth investigating ! :-/O :-DMM
I only have Windows available at the moment, so I can't try formatting through linux. Sorry! It is an 8GB drive formatted as Fat32.
I've tried inserting the usb stick while the scope was powered off, and also while it was on and then rebooting it. Same result either way for the OS not installing. The firmware installed fine through the normal Utility menu on the scope.
OK. Linux formatting would be a "remote" possibility.
My last suggestion is:
Format the stick with FAT. Ensure that the scope recognizes the stick and save some files (captures) from the scope to the stick.
Then, power off the scope, remove the stick and copy the 4 files to the stick as the manual says (don't remove the captures).
Ensure that you are doing clean ejections from Win.
Insert in the scope and power on.
Also, check with some hash prog that the files you have in the stick have the correct hash (crc32 is enough).
USB drives are only troublesome when they are 16G size or not FAT formatted.
>Quote from: plurn on December 15, 2018, 03:53:14 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=94245.msg2039635#msg2039635)I purchased a SDS1104X-E in November in Australia and it has the following:
software version: 8.0.6.1.26
fpga version: 2018-07-26
hardware version: 01-03
Interesting... ::)
Can you send me a copy of the .app file?
It's got the same version, except the hardware version is listed as 01-04. I wonder what that means.
Quote from: tv84 on December 15, 2018, 09:48:02 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=94245.msg2040520#msg2040520)
>Quote from: plurn on December 15, 2018, 03:53:14 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=94245.msg2039635#msg2039635)I purchased a SDS1104X-E in November in Australia and it has the following:
software version: 8.0.6.1.26
fpga version: 2018-07-26
hardware version: 01-03
Interesting... ::)
Can you send me a copy of the .app file?
Finally got my SDS 1104X-E today in the UK that I ordered back in November.
It's got the same version, except the hardware version is listed as 01-04. I wonder what that means.
A hands up please of those using the Siglent WiFi adapter TL‐WN725N.Using a genuine TL-WN725N works perfectly --
Some reports on your experiences and range with this USB adapter please.
Also please, reports from those using the genuine TP Link TL-WN725N dongle.
/ # for i in $(seq 1 10); do cat /proc/net/wireless ; done
Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE
face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22
wlan0: 0000 0. 84. 0. 0 0 0 0 0 0
Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE
face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22
wlan0: 0000 0. 84. 0. 0 0 0 0 0 0
Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE
face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22
wlan0: 0000 0. 84. 0. 0 0 0 0 0 0
Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE
face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22
wlan0: 0000 0. 84. 0. 0 0 0 0 0 0
Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE
face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22
wlan0: 0000 0. 84. 0. 0 0 0 0 0 0
Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE
face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22
wlan0: 0000 0. 84. 0. 0 0 0 0 0 0
Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE
face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22
wlan0: 0000 0. 84. 0. 0 0 0 0 0 0
Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE
face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22
wlan0: 0000 0. 84. 0. 0 0 0 0 0 0
Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE
face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22
wlan0: 0000 0. 84. 0. 0 0 0 0 0 0
Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE
face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22
wlan0: 0000 0. 84. 0. 0 0 0 0 0 0
/ # ifconfig
lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:65536 Metric:1
RX packets:99 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:99 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:7108 (6.9 KiB) TX bytes:7108 (6.9 KiB)
wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 50:3E:AA:83:BF:7A
inet addr:192.168.1.201 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:86778 errors:0 dropped:1468 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:316584 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:9375097 (8.9 MiB) TX bytes:462780487 (441.3 MiB)
/ #
Single family dwelling, about 10m from router through 1 open door, a intervening room, and one interior wall. Adapter is in the rear USB connector of the scope and is oriented with the body of the scope between the router and the adapter.I think it might be the Xilinx Zynq Platform hardware revision? I have "hardware version: 01-03" and Xilinx Zynq Platform 0003:My proc/cpuinfo is identical to yours. Purchased in the United States at the end of November
/ # cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS : 1332.01
Features : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x3
CPU part : 0xc09
CPU revision : 0
processor : 1
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS : 1332.01
Features : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x3
CPU part : 0xc09
CPU revision : 0
Hardware : Xilinx Zynq Platform
Revision : 0003
Serial : 0000000000000000
/ #
As for what having revision 0003 compared to some other revision means - I don't know.
Quote from: tv84 on December 15, 2018, 09:48:02 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=94245.msg2040520#msg2040520)
>Quote from: plurn on December 15, 2018, 03:53:14 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=94245.msg2039635#msg2039635)I purchased a SDS1104X-E in November in Australia and it has the following:
software version: 8.0.6.1.26
fpga version: 2018-07-26
hardware version: 01-03
Interesting... ::)
Can you send me a copy of the .app file?
Finally got my SDS 1104X-E today in the UK that I ordered back in November.
It's got the same version, except the hardware version is listed as 01-04. I wonder what that means.
I think it might be the Xilinx Zynq Platform hardware revision? I have "hardware version: 01-03" and Xilinx Zynq Platform 0003:
/ # cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS : 1332.01
Features : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x3
CPU part : 0xc09
CPU revision : 0
processor : 1
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS : 1332.01
Features : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x3
CPU part : 0xc09
CPU revision : 0
Hardware : Xilinx Zynq Platform
Revision : 0003
Serial : 0000000000000000
/ #
As for what having revision 0003 compared to some other revision means - I don't know.
SHELLCMD cat /proc/cpuinfo > /usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0/cpuinfo.txt
and in cpuinfo.txt I have:processor : 0
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS : 1332.01
Features : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x3
CPU part : 0xc09
CPU revision : 0
processor : 1
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 0 (v7l)
BogoMIPS : 1332.01
Features : half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpd32
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x3
CPU part : 0xc09
CPU revision : 0
Hardware : Xilinx Zynq Platform
Revision : 0003
Serial : 0000000000000000
so for both the fpga bit file was the same? If so then great, means it should be usable for the 7. as well
Thanks for the practical examples helping novices how to work with Acq.ON more (Sequential).IMO with the additional channels you have it would be better to grab signals from various points and then use the array of different trigger types in conjunction with a Normal or Single trigger setting.
That was the thing I was trying to figure out this week by it was not intuitive and the manual didn't help from the first try.
Could somebody advice on how use 1204/1104xe for tracing a problem witch require ideally "data logging" of 2 hours the turn marker of 200-1500 RPM rotating shaft.
I am able to check with a scope that in ideal conditions turn marker only one pulse per turn. But equipment tends to give not systematic failures over 1-2 hours of work cycle.
There is the idea that either some voltage fluctuations at line \ ground or vibrations (or both) make false/absent rotation pulses.
Ideally, I need to get 1-2 hours triggers on all pulses and save that data to compare with a time of equipment errors in the final image (equipment is drum scanner and faults to trace are "dead" lines of pixels in the final scan that appear not always and so still are not identified by source).
I was reading in the manual for older Siglent scope model _CML about RECORD function where it is possible to write all untriggered screens with specified time intervals up to 2500. Could 1204xe make such a trick in some mode - it has much better memory than _CML scope model?
Don't know about 28M of data?? Its only 14M to me per channel pair, with both pairs tied to the same trigger? unless I am really missing something,When monitoring all four channels at an appropriate time base = 28 Mpts of captured data.
Thanks for the practical examples helping novices how to work with Acq.ON more (Sequential).
That was the thing I was trying to figure out this week by it was not intuitive and the manual didn't help from the first try.
Could somebody advice on how use 1204/1104xe for tracing a problem witch require ideally "data logging" of 2 hours the turn marker of 200-1500 RPM rotating shaft.
I am able to check with a scope that in ideal conditions turn marker only one pulse per turn. But equipment tends to give not systematic failures over 1-2 hours of work cycle.
There is the idea that either some voltage fluctuations at line \ ground or vibrations (or both) make false/absent rotation pulses.
Ideally, I need to get 1-2 hours triggers on all pulses and save that data to compare with a time of equipment errors in the final image (equipment is drum scanner and faults to trace are "dead" lines of pixels in the final scan that appear not always and so still are not identified by source).
I was reading in the manual for older Siglent scope model _CML about RECORD function where it is possible to write all untriggered screens with specified time intervals up to 2500. Could 1204xe make such a trick in some mode - it has much better memory than _CML scope model?
Don't know about 28M of data?? Its only 14M to me per channel pair, with both pairs tied to the same trigger? unless I am really missing something,When monitoring all four channels at an appropriate time base = 28 Mpts of captured data.
rf-loop, would you be willing to go into exactly what bytes need to be changed for the longer modes? I can only see 1000s for the upper and 200ps and 500ps unused for the lower, as strings in the app? while I'm curious about those lower time bases, I would love to know what the modification procedure is.Individuals mods are very much other things. ;) And as told previously these things are better to discuss in dedicated thread for these... example here : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-hack-to-200mhz-and-full-options/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-hack-to-200mhz-and-full-options/)
i found small bug, only CH1 and CH3 affected, only when CH2 and CH4 are off. In fine adjust mode, 302mV/DIV is on wrong position. Seems to be only the case as well memory ans timebase dependent (14M 1ms->1ns, 1.4M 100us->1ns, 140k 10us->1ns, 1.4k 1us -> 1ns).
Tested on 8.1.6.1.26, hw1.3
EDIT: hmm, there is actually more like that, 1.54mV/DIV to 1.50mv/DIV, then very strange jumps/no move from 1.36mV to 780uV/DIV, then the wave jumps down by 2 DIVs down between 770uV/DIV and 750uV/DIV. Same as above, dependent on timebase and memory settings, this time CH1 more affected than CH3, no problem with CH2 and CH4.
Can someone check that? My DSO is for sure properly calibrated and still under quick warranty, so maybe i have to replace it.
500uv 183
510uV 182
520uV 181
530uV 180
540uV 179
550uV 178
560uV 177
570uV 176
580uV 175
590uV 174
600uV 174
610uV 173
620uV 172
630uV 171
640uV 171
650uV 170
660uV 170
670uV 169
680uV 168
690uV 168
700uV 167
710uV 167
720uV 166
730uV 165
740uV 165
750uV 154
760uV 154
770uV 199
780uV 198
790uV 197
800uV 196
810uV 196
820uV 195
830uV 194
840uV 193
850uV 192
860uV 192
870uV 191
880uV 190
890uV 189
900uV 189
910uV 188
920uV 188
930uV 187
940uV 186
950uV 186
960uV 185
970uV 184
980uV 184
990uV 183
1.00mV 183
1.02mV 182
1.04mV 181
1.06mV 180
1.08mV 179
1.10mV 178
1.12mV 177
1.14mV 176
1.16mV 175
1.18mV 174
1.20mV 174
1.22mV 173
1.24mV 172
1.26mV 171
1.28mV 171
1.30mV 170
1.32mV 170
1.34mV 169
1.36mV 168
1.38mV 168
1.40mV 167
1.42mV 167
1.44mV 166
1.46mV 165
1.48mV 165
1.50mV 154
1.52mV 154
1.54mV 199
1.56mV 198
1.58mV 197
1.60mV 196
1.62mV 196
1.64mV 195
1.66mV 194
1.68mV 193
1.70mV 192
1.72mV 192
1.74mV 191
1.76mV 190
1.78mV 189
1.80mV 189
1.82mV 188
1.84mV 188
1.86mV 187
1.88mV 186
1.90mV 186
1.92mV 185
1.94mV 184
1.96mV 184
1.98mV 183
2.00mV 183
2.06mV 181
2.12mV 180
2.18mV 178
2.24mV 177
2.30mV 175
2.36mV 174
2.42mV 173
2.48mV 172
2.54mV 171
2.60mV 170
2.66mV 169
2.72mV 168
2.78mV 167
2.84mV 167
2.90mV 166
2.96mV 165
3.02mV 164
3.08mV 164
3.14mV 163
3.20mV 162
3.26mV 162
3.32mV 161
3.38mV 160
3.44mv 160
3.50mV 190
3.56mV 189
3.62mV 188
3.68mV 188
3.74mV 187
3.80mV 186
3.86mV 185
3.92mV 184
3.98mV 183
4.04mV 182
4.10mV 181
4.16mV 181
4.22mV 180
4.28mV 179
4.34mV 178
4.40mV 178
4.46mV 177
4.52mV 176
4.58mV 176
4.64mV 175
4.70mV 175
4.76mV 174
4.82mV 173
4.88mV 173
4.94mV 172
5.00mV 172
5.10mV 171
5.20mV 170
5.30mV 169
5.40mV 169
5.50mV 168
5.60mV 167
5.70mV 166
5.80mV 166
5.90mV 165
6.00mV 165
6.10mV 164
6.20mV 163
6.30mV 163
6.40mV 162
6.50mV 162
6.60mV 161
6.70mV 161
6.80mV 160
6.90mV 160
7.00mV 159
7.10mV 159
7.20mV 158
7.30mV 158
7.40mV 158
7.50mV 187
Some suggestions to Siglent about messages and captions on the screen.
1. The captions on the screen should be in front of the waveforms and not transparent or almost not transparent. Currently they often become unreadable when they are crossed by waveforms.
I do only that I write wish list to "Santa Claus" (in this case Siglent) and then waiting christmas.
Yep, looks like there is something weird about the calibration for certain values, and seems to be related to VGAC it rolls over at 750uV, 1.50mV, 3.50mV, 7.50mV etc,
However the first 2 seem to have an error at the roll over. Equally it hints that it should be able to allow for as low as about 350uV / div on a hardware perspective. and up to about 12V/div on the upper,
To make clear, the C1:VGAC command is a com/query that you can use to manually set the variable gain amplifier, values between 15 - 199 seems to be the valid range used during device calibration, though it may be able to use the full 0-255, which would possibly allow all the way down to 100uV/div. room for imagination for anyone else who actually has gear to test accurate AC amplitude at crazy low amplitudes.
There is something else also being used during those step changes, but I have not yet found a command for it.
Below is the VGAC values for each vdiv step on my scope, you can see it goes a bit wonky at 750uV and 1.50mVCode: [Select]500uv 183
510uV 182
520uV 181
530uV 180
540uV 179
550uV 178
560uV 177
570uV 176
580uV 175
590uV 174
600uV 174
610uV 173
620uV 172
630uV 171
640uV 171
650uV 170
660uV 170
670uV 169
680uV 168
690uV 168
700uV 167
710uV 167
720uV 166
730uV 165
740uV 165
750uV 154
760uV 154
770uV 199
780uV 198
790uV 197
800uV 196
810uV 196
820uV 195
830uV 194
840uV 193
850uV 192
860uV 192
870uV 191
880uV 190
890uV 189
900uV 189
910uV 188
920uV 188
930uV 187
940uV 186
950uV 186
960uV 185
970uV 184
980uV 184
990uV 183
1.00mV 183
1.02mV 182
1.04mV 181
1.06mV 180
1.08mV 179
1.10mV 178
1.12mV 177
1.14mV 176
1.16mV 175
1.18mV 174
1.20mV 174
1.22mV 173
1.24mV 172
1.26mV 171
1.28mV 171
1.30mV 170
1.32mV 170
1.34mV 169
1.36mV 168
1.38mV 168
1.40mV 167
1.42mV 167
1.44mV 166
1.46mV 165
1.48mV 165
1.50mV 154
1.52mV 154
1.54mV 199
1.56mV 198
1.58mV 197
1.60mV 196
1.62mV 196
1.64mV 195
1.66mV 194
1.68mV 193
1.70mV 192
1.72mV 192
1.74mV 191
1.76mV 190
1.78mV 189
1.80mV 189
1.82mV 188
1.84mV 188
1.86mV 187
1.88mV 186
1.90mV 186
1.92mV 185
1.94mV 184
1.96mV 184
1.98mV 183
2.00mV 183
2.06mV 181
2.12mV 180
2.18mV 178
2.24mV 177
2.30mV 175
2.36mV 174
2.42mV 173
2.48mV 172
2.54mV 171
2.60mV 170
2.66mV 169
2.72mV 168
2.78mV 167
2.84mV 167
2.90mV 166
2.96mV 165
3.02mV 164
3.08mV 164
3.14mV 163
3.20mV 162
3.26mV 162
3.32mV 161
3.38mV 160
3.44mv 160
3.50mV 190
3.56mV 189
3.62mV 188
3.68mV 188
3.74mV 187
3.80mV 186
3.86mV 185
3.92mV 184
3.98mV 183
4.04mV 182
4.10mV 181
4.16mV 181
4.22mV 180
4.28mV 179
4.34mV 178
4.40mV 178
4.46mV 177
4.52mV 176
4.58mV 176
4.64mV 175
4.70mV 175
4.76mV 174
4.82mV 173
4.88mV 173
4.94mV 172
5.00mV 172
5.10mV 171
5.20mV 170
5.30mV 169
5.40mV 169
5.50mV 168
5.60mV 167
5.70mV 166
5.80mV 166
5.90mV 165
6.00mV 165
6.10mV 164
6.20mV 163
6.30mV 163
6.40mV 162
6.50mV 162
6.60mV 161
6.70mV 161
6.80mV 160
6.90mV 160
7.00mV 159
7.10mV 159
7.20mV 158
7.30mV 158
7.40mV 158
7.50mV 187
I chose my wording poorly, but for me that is low amplitude in the realm of a scope. And while I have plenty of signal sources, I lack any direct way to measure amplitudes that low with any hope of accuracy.
I agree its pretty noisy down at the 500uV range,
however It works on all attenuation ranges. so you can abuse it to view smaller signals on the larger offset ranges, e.g. 8mV / div at a +-21V offset range. or 70mV/div at a +-210V offset range, this is where I see it being much more useful, >:D
Not sure if this had been posted here, but the analog frontend was reverse-engineered:This is a better thread for SDS1202X-E stuff:
Not sure if this had been posted here, but the analog frontend was reverse-engineered:
https://github.com/360nosc0pe/siglent_hardware/tree/master/sds1202xe/siglent_AFE (https://github.com/360nosc0pe/siglent_hardware/tree/master/sds1202xe/siglent_AFE)
I need to measure AC ripple on a 320V DC signal using AC coupling mode. SDS1004X-E input is rated for 400Vpk. Is this enough for my needs? (My worry is due to the fact that 400Vpk correspond to 280Vrms...)It heavily depends on the exact waveform what 400Vp actually corresponds to. For DC however, peak and rms are identical.
I should also point out probes have there own voltage ratings, looking on the side of a random one I have on hand (X1: 150V, X10: 300V) its not a siglent probe, so check yours first.
If the probe cannot handle the voltage, but the scope can, it means you will just have to use a coax cable to measure it.
I should also point out probes have there own voltage ratings, looking on the side of a random one I have on hand (X1: 150V, X10: 300V) its not a siglent probe, so check yours first.
If the probe cannot handle the voltage, but the scope can, it means you will just have to use a coax cable to measure it.
Siglent example PP510 and PP215 and PB470
10x 600VDC (or AC peak)
1x 300VDC (or AC peak)
I should also point out probes have there own voltage ratings, looking on the side of a random one I have on hand (X1: 150V, X10: 300V) its not a siglent probe, so check yours first.
If the probe cannot handle the voltage, but the scope can, it means you will just have to use a coax cable to measure it.
Siglent example PP510 and PP215 and PB470
10x 600VDC (or AC peak)
1x 300VDC (or AC peak)
Just checked one of my siglent PP510 probes and it says this on the probe itself:
1x 150V
10x 300V
CAT II
user guide for that probe says:
max input voltage: 1X:150V RMS CAT II&10X:300V RMS CAT II
PP510 1X/10X attenuation, 85/18pf, 1M/10Mohm, 6M/100MHz, 300V/600V,
operating temperature -15 to 75 degrees
I have ordered a 1104X-E, hoping to get it next week. However, I have a question: This model has no real on/off switch, which I'm not a huge fan of. I guess it's because they want it to properly shut down every time (hence only a soft button), but an additional physical switch to remove power could still have been there. Just like the switch on a computer power supply.Welcome to the forum.
So, what do you guys do? Leave it plugged in, or do you unplug it after use? Or do you add some external switch to cut power?
I have ordered a 1104X-E, hoping to get it next week. However, I have a question: This model has no real on/off switch, which I'm not a huge fan of. I guess it's because they want it to properly shut down every time (hence only a soft button), but an additional physical switch to remove power could still have been there. Just like the switch on a computer power supply.Welcome to the forum.
So, what do you guys do? Leave it plugged in, or do you unplug it after use? Or do you add some external switch to cut power?
You certainly can add an external switch but use scopes soft button to turn it OFF first.....it needs a second or two to shut down its OS correctly.
If I'm not at my bench using test equipment it's OFF at the wall.
And thanks for the welcome as well! I'm an electronics engineer that hasn't really done any electronics in a great many years, but suddenly I got the urge to order a new oscilloscope. My TDS210 still works, but the data record length is laughable by today's standards. And only 2 channels as well.Massive step up from a TDS210 and great you already have DSO experience. :)
Follow up on the SAG1021
Also there is a 16 bit 1MHz Texas Instruments on the board that I cannot understand the purpose of, just generates a 7.5KHz square wave that drops off in amplitude when set to DC output.
Adding that to the frmware would clearly be possible, but Siglent probably doesn't care.
@Martin72: I've posted the question to the thread that Siglent support supposedly monitors.What Rerouter said plus be sure to have it running for ~30 minutes before Self Cal. After which if running latest FW you can have the Quick Cal turned ON to take care of any little temp drift issues.
But now I have a different question: On my brand new scope (SDS1104X-E) , if I short the probes and look at the measured DC voltage, it appears that especially on the 2V/div range there is a DC offset that is higher than I'd expect. On channel 1 for instance, it is around -125 mV, which I think is a bit too much. It is enough that you can clearly see that the trace is offset from the vertical position markers. The other channels are a little better, but all have a negative offset of more than 80 mV.
The other ranges seems to be a lot better, so why is the 2V/div range so "bad"? On my old Tek TDS210 I'm seeing around 15-20 mV (in this range), which is more in line with what I'd expect.
I've also tried running a self calibration, (which actually did improve the situation, because before doing that it was even worse). Am I just expecting too much here?
/ # uptime
01:12:12 up 1:12, 0 users, load average: 2.13, 1.53, 1.41
I've had it running for more than an hour now:OK, thanks.Code: [Select]/ # uptime
01:12:12 up 1:12, 0 users, load average: 2.13, 1.53, 1.41
And I've ran the self calibration twice in the last 10 minutes. Seems to change a little between each run, but still quite a bit more offset than I'm happy with. The "Quick Cal" is on by default, and the scope came with the latest firmware (and it's hardware version 04). It was calibrated at the factory in December 2018.
After the last self calibration, it still shows an offset of around -120 mV, as can be seen here:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=661596)
I'm using averaging (in the Acquire menu) to more cleanly show the offset here.
@tautech: My lab has a few cellular units running that can cause some EMI, but if that was it, shouldn't the other ranges be affected as well?Dunno, we will hand it over to the product manager at the factory soon.
It seems only the 2V/div range has serious issues. I will however rerun the self cal in a different room and report back, as you requested.Thanks
And I've also re-run the self cal in a different room now, but nothing changed.Thanks again.
I guess that means the self calibration routine might not do a good enough job?Maybe, the firmware of the Self Cal has been optimized before in an older FW version. A component change or something minor may have mucked the Self Cal up, they can have a look at it and find a solution.
And lastly. With the coupling set to ground. Do they read better or worse (suspicious procedure may have changed)If I set the coupling to ground, the offset goes to around +10 mV. Go figure...
* | Channel 1 | Channel 2 | Channel 3 | Channel 4 |
5 mV/div | -837.58 μV | -1.79 mV | -5.24 mV | -553.21 μV |
10 mV/div | -1.17 mV | -2.83 mV | -6.25 mV | -751.54 μV |
20 mV/div | -1.50 mV | -3.20 mV | -6.40 mV | -1.31 mV |
50 mV/div | -3.74 mV | -4.00 mV | -4.31 mV | 0.0 pV |
100 mV/div | 0.0 pV | -4.00 mV | -4.19 mV | -4.00 mV |
200 mV/div | -8.00 mV | -45.71 nV | 0.0 pV | -8.00 mV |
500 mV/div | -6.34 mV | -6.83 μV | -114.29 nV | -15.43 mV |
1 V/div | -4.21 mV | 0.0 pV | 0.0 pV | -649.60 μV |
2 V/div | -159.94 mV | 150.17 μV | -616.46 μV | 0.0 pV |
5 V/div | -185.12 mV | -47.52 mV | -20.29 μV | -28.29 μV |
10 V/div | -392.78 mV | 0.0 pV | 0.0 pV | 0.0 pV |
20 V/div | -1.56 V | 85.96 mV | 25.14 μV | -8.00 μV |
50 V/div | -2.86 μV | 0.0 pV | -91.43 μV | -148.57 μV |
100 V/div | -776.38 mV | 0.0 pV | -3.42 mV | -1.17 mV |
Changing the attenuation to 1X doesn't really do anything to improve the situation. The range automatically changes from 2V/div to 200 mV/div when I go from 10X to 1X, but if I re-adjust the range back to 2V/div, I observe the same large offset (on channel 1) of around -160 mV.Which aligns closely to screenshot #12, 1.56V @ 20V/div.
My heart is set on 4-ch 200MHz or more scope by the end of the Summer, so I'm budgeting for the SDS1204
Sorry for asking again, but are lot's of people hacking the 100MHz version to the 200MHz without any problems ? There's a big price diff for me.
I want a 4-ch scope, but I don't want to settle for 50-70-100MHz like the nice Rigol's. I want to be higher than that level, as my "base" scope. And then some day I'll save up for a 2-ch thats a lot faster than my base scope.
My heart is set on 4-ch 200MHz or more scope by the end of the Summer, so I'm budgeting for the SDS1204
Sorry for asking again, but are lot's of people hacking the 100MHz version to the 200MHz without any problems ? There's a big price diff for me.
I want a 4-ch scope, but I don't want to settle for 50-70-100MHz like the nice Rigol's. I want to be higher than that level, as my "base" scope. And then some day I'll save up for a 2-ch thats a lot faster than my base scope.
Wait a minute, the SDS1104 only has the single 1GS/s ADC , but the SDS1204 has 2 of them ? Is the memory and the rest of it the same ?SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E both have dual 1 GSa/s ADC's and 14 Mpts of memory serving each.
±(1%* Offset+1.5%*8*div+2 mV): ≥2 mV/div
±(1%* Offset+1.5%*8*div+500 uV): ≤1 mv/div
The only exact way i can phrase it is later firmware versions may tweak it.
I'm not sure why it happens, but these artifacts was added at the time when Siglent released new X-E model. So, I think they both may share the same signal processing algorithm.Not only those marked large bumps, but the whole noise floor seems to have smaller bumbs, and lifted in general by about 10dB. Assuming that the measurements between versions were otherwise fully comparable, and that my mind is not tricking me to see those smaller "bumps" in the noise.
I'm a bit ashamed to admit, but I'm having trouble reading the specification for DC offset accuracy in the datasheet, which states:Not a pro here, but... replace the "Offset" with current offset (position) value, and the "div" with current volts/div (gain/sensitivity) value. So, when checking calibration with 2V/div and zero offset, the value would be ±(1%*0V + 1.5%*8*2V + 2mV), or about ±242mV. That would be the range of where the offset error should stay within (with those particular settings). If I estimated things right in my head, that corresponds to about 6 LSBs.Quote from: Siglent datasheet±(1%* Offset+1.5%*8*div+2 mV): ≥2 mV/div
±(1%* Offset+1.5%*8*div+500 uV): ≤1 mv/div
I don't fully understand how to calculate the maximum permissible DC offset, for example for the 2V/div range (which is: ±(1%* Offset+1.5%*8*div+2 mV)) . Could someone enlighten me? When the channel is shorted, the input signal is 0 V, does that mean the offset should not exceed 2 mV?
trace is clearly separated from the zero position marker.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=664506)
In the center of the screen, there's a very visual notch/stair in the waveform, just at the trigger level. Is this to be expected? I can't really understand why, but it does appear to be just a visual artifact.
What i was after was a command that would put it in a bode plot mode with the parameters exposed so I could set the center, span, etc via scpi,Officially; Bode plot SCPI command set: totally unsupported at this time.
Rerouter would like it, please raise hands who else.
I am curious if this is normal for this model.
Mem: 107104K used, 129592K free, 0K shrd, 4294967295K buff, 5K cached
CPU: 5.2% usr 1.6% sys 0.0% nic 93.0% idle 0.0% io 0.0% irq 0.1% sirq
Load average: 1.09 1.03 0.67 3/83 14408
PID PPID USER STAT VSZ %VSZ CPU %CPU COMMAND
797 1 root S 370m159.8 1 6.7 /usr/bin/siglent/sds1000b.app
798 1 root S 20224 8.5 0 0.0 /usr/bin/siglent/vncserver
14364 11198 root R 3152 1.3 0 0.0 top
27390 2 root SW 0 0.0 0 0.0 [kworker/0:1]
923 2 root SW 0 0.0 0 0.0 [RTW_CMD_THREAD]
10 2 root SW 0 0.0 0 0.0 [migration/0]
817 811 root S 13132 5.5 0 0.0 /usr/bin/php-cgi
811 809 root S 13048 5.5 0 0.0 /usr/bin/php-cgi
922 1 root S 5032 2.1 0 0.0 wpa_supplicant -Dnl80211,wext -iwlan0 -C/usr/bin/siglent/usr/wifi/wpa_supplicant -c/usr/bin/siglent/usr/wifi/wpa.conf
11151 1 root S 3236 1.3 1 0.0 telnetd -l/bin/sh -p9999
11198 11151 root S 3152 1.3 0 0.0 /bin/sh
813 1 root S 3152 1.3 0 0.0 -/bin/ash
1 0 root S 3148 1.3 1 0.0 {linuxrc} init
809 1 root S 2668 1.1 0 0.0 /usr/sbin/lighttpd -f /etc/lighttpd.conf
796 1 1 S 2096 0.8 1 0.0 portmap
9624 2 root SW 0 0.0 1 0.0 [kworker/1:1]
7 2 root SW 0 0.0 1 0.0 [rcu_preempt]
3 2 root SW 0 0.0 0 0.0 [ksoftirqd/0]
11 2 root SW 0 0.0 1 0.0 [migration/1]
12 2 root SW 0 0.0 1 0.0 [ksoftirqd/1]
503 2 root SW 0 0.0 1 0.0 [spi32765]
17 2 root SW 0 0.0 1 0.0 [kworker/u4:1]
652 2 root SW< 0 0.0 0 0.0 [kworker/0:1H]
653 2 root SW< 0 0.0 1 0.0 [kworker/1:1H]
673 2 root SW 0 0.0 0 0.0 [ubi_bgt0d]
684 2 root SW 0 0.0 1 0.0 [ubi_bgt1d]
2 0 root SW 0 0.0 1 0.0 [kthreadd]
5 2 root SW< 0 0.0 0 0.0 [kworker/0:0H]
8 2 root SW 0 0.0 0 0.0 [rcu_sched]
9 2 root SW 0 0.0 0 0.0 [rcu_bh]
14 2 root SW< 0 0.0 1 0.0 [kworker/1:0H]
15 2 root SW< 0 0.0 1 0.0 [khelper]
16 2 root SW 0 0.0 0 0.0 [kdevtmpfs]
19 2 root SW< 0 0.0 0 0.0 [perf]
258 2 root SW< 0 0.0 0 0.0 [writeback]
262 2 root SW< 0 0.0 1 0.0 [crypto]
263 2 root SW< 0 0.0 0 0.0 [bioset]
265 2 root SW< 0 0.0 1 0.0 [kblockd]
294 2 root SW< 0 0.0 0 0.0 [edac-poller]
[ 6583.202520] DMA timed out
[ 6587.292521] DMA timed out
[ 6591.382523] DMA timed out
[ 6595.482523] DMA timed out
[ 6599.572518] DMA timed out
[ 6603.662519] DMA timed out
[ 6607.752520] DMA timed out
[ 6611.842607] DMA timed out
[ 6615.922520] DMA timed out
[ 6620.012531] DMA timed out
... it crashed
... it sends DHCP requests
Since where are here talking about bugs: the trigger channel label updates itself only after switching to a different menu.If you please, when reporting any suspected bug, please include the firmware version used.
@tautech Does not annoy me enough to download new firmware or properly report it. Installed version is the fist one with the file format Version 2.0 released around July/August 2018.Last/current FW was 2018-09-26; V6.1.26
https://www.youtube.com/embed/yWBrk9XO0_E (https://www.youtube.com/embed/yWBrk9XO0_E) (Not the best video quality but this due to the blackberry camera.)
So, how can one say that the scope can work as a normal 200MHz scope? Shouldn’t a decent scope have an input hardware low-pass filter that suppresses aliases? Does anyone have attenuation measurements of a true SDS1204X-E if that operates the same as mod200?
You have a consistant shift at the same location, so try changing the vdiv of the scope, if it happens at the same voltage then its something weird, if it happens at the same relative position then its the ADC having an in spec non linearity error, similar to a missed code,Ah nice, more SCPI commands. Is there a resource where this one comes from? I’m still looking for the command that turns segmented mode on, and the nr of segments. Besides that, most of the testing goes automatically. Which is quite the time saver.
To better research what is going on when we see what influences it, we can use the VGAC command to manually set the VGAC amplification, C1:VGAC? get the number then increment it by 1 or more, then set it back with C1:VGAC n ,
Rerouter has dug into the depths of the X-E's and found lots of undocumented SCPI commands, from another thread:You have a consistant shift at the same location, so try changing the vdiv of the scope, if it happens at the same voltage then its something weird, if it happens at the same relative position then its the ADC having an in spec non linearity error, similar to a missed code,Ah nice, more SCPI commands. Is there a resource where this one comes from? I’m still looking for the command that turns segmented mode on, and the nr of segments. Besides that, most of the testing goes automatically. Which is quite the time saver.
To better research what is going on when we see what influences it, we can use the VGAC command to manually set the VGAC amplification, C1:VGAC? get the number then increment it by 1 or more, then set it back with C1:VGAC n ,
Does turning the knob in fine mode also change the VGAC (a new concept to me, have research it sometimes), I alway thought it was (software) value scaling, and did not use it for that reason.
ACQuire_Way ACQW Command / Query ACQUISITION Specifies the acquisition mode.
ACquire_SeQuence_Mode ACSQM Command / Query ACQUISITION
ACquire_SeQuence_Seg ACSQS Command ACQUISITION
I know and I’m making good use off it, but I think it’s only for the AWG?Rerouter has dug into the depths of the X-E's and found lots of undocumented SCPI commands, from another thread:You have a consistant shift at the same location, so try changing the vdiv of the scope, if it happens at the same voltage then its something weird, if it happens at the same relative position then its the ADC having an in spec non linearity error, similar to a missed code,Ah nice, more SCPI commands. Is there a resource where this one comes from? I’m still looking for the command that turns segmented mode on, and the nr of segments. Besides that, most of the testing goes automatically. Which is quite the time saver.
To better research what is going on when we see what influences it, we can use the VGAC command to manually set the VGAC amplification, C1:VGAC? get the number then increment it by 1 or more, then set it back with C1:VGAC n ,
Does turning the knob in fine mode also change the VGAC (a new concept to me, have research it sometimes), I alway thought it was (software) value scaling, and did not use it for that reason.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-and-sag1021-unwanted-dc-offset/msg2333568/#msg2333568 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-and-sag1021-unwanted-dc-offset/msg2333568/#msg2333568)
Not sure which command your referencing, for the VGAC it is an unsigned number, however it splits ranges at code 128 (low amplification mode vs high amplification mode), so 0-127 is low amplification mode, 128-255 is high amplification mode.I figured out!
I went into more detail a few pages back in this thread,
If the decimal is greater than 127, it should minus 255.Then the value is code value. Such as the wave data is ―FC‖ convert to decimal is 252. So the code value is 252-255 = -3.
comes from the documentation of the WAVEFORM? | WF? command.If the decimal is greater than 127, it should minus 256. Then the value is code value. Such as the wave data is ―FC‖ convert to decimal is 252. So the code value is 252-256 = -4.
Which is treating them as signed 8 bit values. Without having two ways of ending up with a resulting 0.instead of throwing away those extemes, you could just do statistical culling,The reason I think throwing them away is a good thing, is because the extremes can be just be spikes because someone started the microwave. Those shouldn't be averaged with just noisy values.
Take Average of a sample window,
Get however many standard deviations you desire,
Cull any readings outside of that window and take the median value.
A mathematician will probably hunt me to the end of the earth for suggesting it, but see how you go.
Somewhere on this thread I think there was a "scope comparison chart" posted. I've done several searches but can't seem to find it. I'm looking at the Siglent SDS1000x-e line but wanted to compare it with others. Thanks.The sticky one pinned at the top of the Test Equipment board ?
What is the latest available firmware version?
I have had my 1104X-E about a week. My firmware is 8.1.6.1.26 Hardware version 01-04 Cal certificate is dated Feb-19-2019
the alternative in my budget is the famous ds1054z but since its ui is so slow
...
GDS1054B is out of my price range :-[
So slow....says who ?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ds1054z-sometimes-slow/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ds1054z-sometimes-slow/)
In the last 4 years I got two ones, we (company) working actual with three every day.
It surely had some issues comparing with the top of the pops what dso concerns.
But "so slow" was not the point.
Thank you Mortymore for the datails. ;)Does the Rigol have digital filters?
I want to know for the Siglent, if it doesn't have filters i will chose the Rigol. :-//
Does the Rigol have digital filters?
Nice feature overall. But -- do you really trust these images filtered waveforms so that you can really measure something from these. In my eyes they look bit odd. But of course this is nice feature and lot of more than nothing.
I hope if they are implemented they ara also so documented that user know enough exactly these filters detailed data and errors. Most bad thing what can happen with these dsigital side filters is if user come fooled with alias frequencies and then do not know anything what is false and what is true without some further checks. Most danger these are for example possible unexperienced users who are still in learning curve position where believe all what instrument show - but truth is that all what can see in DSO display is sum of known and unknown errors mixed with unknown input signal.
Then side note. (example images 5 and 6 names ) Fundamental frequency == 1st harmonic! Yesterday, now and forever.
If someone name harmonics wrong like this then all goes wrong. This error swap also odd and even harmonics and if who ever make this error then just all goes wrong when he think anything bit more complex. More I thing this was just typing error (example your images 5 and 6). I note it because I have seen this error (not only typing error but also thinking error) many times and this error is not very rare.
Does SDS1104X-E have digital filters like band pass, low pass , high pass and band gap?
I want a scope upgrade but i need those filters, since i do power electronics work.
Thanks :)
Nice feature overall. But -- do you really trust these images filtered waveforms so that you can really measure something from these. In my eyes they look bit odd. But of course this is nice feature and lot of more than nothing.
I hope if they are implemented they ara also so documented that user know enough exactly these filters detailed data and errors. Most bad thing what can happen with these dsigital side filters is if user come fooled with alias frequencies and then do not know anything what is false and what is true without some further checks. Most danger these are for example possible unexperienced users who are still in learning curve position where believe all what instrument show - but truth is that all what can see in DSO display is sum of known and unknown errors mixed with unknown input signal.
Then side note. (example images 5 and 6 names ) Fundamental frequency == 1st harmonic! Yesterday, now and forever.
If someone name harmonics wrong like this then all goes wrong. This error swap also odd and even harmonics and if who ever make this error then just all goes wrong when he think anything bit more complex. More I thing this was just typing error (example your images 5 and 6). I note it because I have seen this error (not only typing error but also thinking error) many times and this error is not very rare.
So you are still on your crusade to prove that filters are stupid because Siglent doesn't have them.. :-DD
And you criteria is that after you filter the signal it doesn't look the same as original and it is confusing and it can confuse somebody.
So can inverting channel and scopes have that. So can all other math that does precisely that: it makes signal on screen look completely different than input signal. That's confusing too.
Filters on a scope are just another math operation where we want to make some mathematical transformation because we are interested in what a signal would look like if we do that.
People gave you few scenarios where it is useful. One is extracting modulation from PWM signal. Second one might be measuring RMS in specific bandwidth. Or simply suppressing 50 Hz hum in a signal.Etc, etc.
In order to be useful, naturally, it has to be implemented correctly, with defined characteristics.. So I prefer no filter to some crap.
Also you have to setup input signal correctly and know what are you doing, otherwise you will get crap. GIGO, as always.
But well implemented, filtering is powerful tool.
But well implemented, filtering is powerful tool.
Nice feature overall. But -- do you really trust these images filtered waveforms so that you can really measure something from these. In my eyes they look bit odd. But of course this is nice feature and lot of more than nothing.
I hope if they are implemented they ara also so documented that user know enough exactly these filters detailed data and errors. Most bad thing what can happen with these dsigital side filters is if user come fooled with alias frequencies and then do not know anything what is false and what is true without some further checks. Most danger these are for example possible unexperienced users who are still in learning curve position where believe all what instrument show - but truth is that all what can see in DSO display is sum of known and unknown errors mixed with unknown input signal.
Then side note. (example images 5 and 6 names ) Fundamental frequency == 1st harmonic! Yesterday, now and forever.
If someone name harmonics wrong like this then all goes wrong. This error swap also odd and even harmonics and if who ever make this error then just all goes wrong when he think anything bit more complex. More I thing this was just typing error (example your images 5 and 6). I note it because I have seen this error (not only typing error but also thinking error) many times and this error is not very rare.
So you are still on your crusade to prove that filters are stupid because Siglent doesn't have them.. :-DD
And you criteria is that after you filter the signal it doesn't look the same as original and it is confusing and it can confuse somebody.
So can inverting channel and scopes have that. So can all other math that does precisely that: it makes signal on screen look completely different than input signal. That's confusing too.
Filters on a scope are just another math operation where we want to make some mathematical transformation because we are interested in what a signal would look like if we do that.
People gave you few scenarios where it is useful. One is extracting modulation from PWM signal. Second one might be measuring RMS in specific bandwidth. Or simply suppressing 50 Hz hum in a signal.Etc, etc.
In order to be useful, naturally, it has to be implemented correctly, with defined characteristics.. So I prefer no filter to some crap.
Also you have to setup input signal correctly and know what are you doing, otherwise you will get crap. GIGO, as always.
But well implemented, filtering is powerful tool.
And you jump over my main phrase in my answer, |O where from this selective blindness is coming?
Also these filters are in Siglent many older models and thousands of times I have told them as useful. But not at all without also some cons and also traps.QuoteBut well implemented, filtering is powerful tool.
Yes. Of course.
Then need define what is well implemented. Have you seen these filters detailed specifications. As long as they are "something" they are for nice images. "Adjust and look if you like image is nice".
Nice feature overall. But -- do you really trust these images filtered waveforms so that you can really measure something from these. In my eyes they look bit odd. But of course this is nice feature and lot of more than nothing.
I hope if they are implemented they ara also so documented that user know enough exactly these filters detailed data and errors. Most bad thing what can happen with these dsigital side filters is if user come fooled with alias frequencies and then do not know anything what is false and what is true without some further checks. Most danger these are for example possible unexperienced users who are still in learning curve position where believe all what instrument show - but truth is that all what can see in DSO display is sum of known and unknown errors mixed with unknown input signal.
Then side note. (example images 5 and 6 names ) Fundamental frequency == 1st harmonic! Yesterday, now and forever.
If someone name harmonics wrong like this then all goes wrong. This error swap also odd and even harmonics and if who ever make this error then just all goes wrong when he think anything bit more complex. More I thing this was just typing error (example your images 5 and 6). I note it because I have seen this error (not only typing error but also thinking error) many times and this error is not very rare.
So you are still on your crusade to prove that filters are stupid because Siglent doesn't have them.. :-DD
And you criteria is that after you filter the signal it doesn't look the same as original and it is confusing and it can confuse somebody.
So can inverting channel and scopes have that. So can all other math that does precisely that: it makes signal on screen look completely different than input signal. That's confusing too.
Filters on a scope are just another math operation where we want to make some mathematical transformation because we are interested in what a signal would look like if we do that.
People gave you few scenarios where it is useful. One is extracting modulation from PWM signal. Second one might be measuring RMS in specific bandwidth. Or simply suppressing 50 Hz hum in a signal.Etc, etc.
In order to be useful, naturally, it has to be implemented correctly, with defined characteristics.. So I prefer no filter to some crap.
Also you have to setup input signal correctly and know what are you doing, otherwise you will get crap. GIGO, as always.
But well implemented, filtering is powerful tool.
And you jump over my main phrase in my answer, |O where from this selective blindness is coming?
Also these filters are in Siglent many older models and thousands of times I have told them as useful. But not at all without also some cons and also traps.QuoteBut well implemented, filtering is powerful tool.
Yes. Of course.
Then need define what is well implemented. Have you seen these filters detailed specifications. As long as they are "something" they are for nice images. "Adjust and look if you like image is nice".
I believe I finally understand what you mean. It seems that we are both suffering from a problem of communicating trough a (to us) foreign language.
So we are saying the same: Well implemented filters would be great addition to current Siglent production line. But only done well and well specified, otherwise they are gimmick.
I'm sorry if I wronged you by my misunderstanding. My apologies.
Regards,
Sinisa
FEATURE REQUEST
A possibility to fix the horizontal 0 point (the blue marker) on a certain position on the screen and not on the specific time.
Often I'd like to set the triggering point of the waveform at the beginning of the timeline and not at the middle. No problem to set it, but the 0 point moves each time I change the time base.
micsig tablet scopes (I think it is the plus model that includes all the options) ... have digital filters.
Variable freq LPF filter? How steep?micsig tablet scopes (I think it is the plus model that includes all the options) ... have digital filters.
FWIW the representative of micsig here claimed the low-pass filter is implemented in hardware. I'd expect a varicap. I found this feature very handy to remove unwanted noise when only fraction of full bandwidth is needed.
micsig tablet scopes (I think it is the plus model that includes all the options) ... have digital filters.
FWIW the representative of micsig here claimed the low-pass filter is implemented in hardware. I'd expect a varicap. I found this feature very handy to remove unwanted noise when only fraction of full bandwidth is needed.
No. Hardware means digital filtering in FPGA in this case. You can't make a variable filter using a varicap with that much frequency range.micsig tablet scopes (I think it is the plus model that includes all the options) ... have digital filters.
FWIW the representative of micsig here claimed the low-pass filter is implemented in hardware. I'd expect a varicap. I found this feature very handy to remove unwanted noise when only fraction of full bandwidth is needed.
Variable freq LPF filter? How steep?
With manufacturers like Rigol producing DSOs with unspecified and variable full power bandwidth, these tests are close to useless without specifying the input sensitivity. In the past this was not a consideration because the full power bandwidth was always higher than the bandwidth at any input sensitivity which was a result of operating the input stages over a much smaller signal range.
I am claiming that with a modern oscilloscope, the measurement cannot be replicated without knowing the input sensitivity because many oscilloscopes now have wildly varying bandwidth with different input sensitives. This has shown up repeated on this forum with users making rise time and bandwidth measurements of Rigol DS1000Z DSOs which vary over more than a 2:1 range depending on the test conditions.
Why we need filters (very rudimentary three phase pwm):Is this because math operates on the “GUI data” and not the underlying raw samples data? (So much of the square downs are not “seen”?)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=733581;image)
one has to play with the integrator and still the reconstructed waveform will not be correct :--
no, or at least AFAIK the math channel operate on the full memory (in the 5000X. I believe in the 1000X as well).
I have not checked SDS1000X series but I suspect not (least for measurements there is intermewdiate buffer, more than display resolution but less than raw acquisition memory.
New firmware, updated Programming guide and Datasheet
SDS1004X-E documentation
https://www.siglentamerica.com/resources/documents/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series (https://www.siglentamerica.com/resources/documents/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series)
Firmware updates for SDS1004X-E DSO's and SLA1016 16ch MSO module
SDS1104X-E, SDS1204X-E
Version 6.1.33
8.4 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8917/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8917/)
21 issues and bugs fixed addressed in the firmware release notes:
https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/05/SDS1xx4X-E-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions.pdf (https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2019/05/SDS1xx4X-E-Firmware-Revise-History-and-Update-Instructions.pdf)
________________________________________________________________________________________
SLA1016 MSO module
Version 6.1.16
4.75 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8910/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/8910/)
Due to compatibility between firmware versions please check your X-E DSO has 6.1.33 firmware before updating to version 6.1.16
See release notes as linked above.
Important
Run Self Cal after firmware updates.
Optimized communication between SDS1004X-E and SLA1016. If the SDS1004X-E will be upgraded to this version(or higher), the SLA1016 MUST be upgraded to 8.1.16 (or higher) first.
If you upgrade the scope first, it would no longer be able to talk to the logic analyzer, thus preventing you from upgrading the logic analyzer.
...
If you upgrade the scope first, it would no longer be able to talk to the logic analyzer, thus preventing you from upgrading the logic analyzer.
...
I also think that they wouldn't do that because if people already have an old SLA (not updated) and now buy a new SDS, how do they solve it??I think it is all quite clear from the update instructions:
But, better safe than sorry.
We can downgrade but it's always more unnecessary work...
Update instructions
Very important!
Version 8.1.16 of the SLA1016 optimizes the FPGA. This version is compatible with the following oscilloscope versions: SDS1004X-E (>=6.1.33), SDS2000X-E (>=1.1.18).
If your current SLA1016 revision is < 8.1.16, you can only upgrade the SLA firmware using an SDS1004X-E (<6.1.33) or an SDS2000X-E (<1.1.18)
After upgrading the SLA1016, you can upgrade the oscilloscope.
After you upgrade the firmware, the stored setup recalls some strange values and settings. The channel vertical settings were saved @ 2V/div and recalled at 200mV/div (10X attenuation).I've tried this and found no issue with setups created by the new firmware. So this appears to be a compatibility issue with setup files from previous firmware versions. But yes, I agree, this should not happen nevertheless.
I had setup1 in internal memory set to trigger on SPI, with threshold levels around 2V on CH1, CH2 and CH3. After the upgrade and recall setup1, it shows threshold over 10-12V and also the trigger setting from SPI was changed to I2C...
Yes, it is a setup saved in previous firmware, then recalled after upgradeAfter you upgrade the firmware, the stored setup recalls some strange values and settings. The channel vertical settings were saved @ 2V/div and recalled at 200mV/div (10X attenuation).I've tried this and found no issue with setups created by the new firmware. So this appears to be a compatibility issue with setup files from previous firmware versions. But yes, I agree, this should not happen nevertheless.
I had setup1 in internal memory set to trigger on SPI, with threshold levels around 2V on CH1, CH2 and CH3. After the upgrade and recall setup1, it shows threshold over 10-12V and also the trigger setting from SPI was changed to I2C...
FEATURE REQUEST
Did you notice the Siglent logo on the screen of SDS1000X-E? To me it looks ugly and cheap.
Now isn´t that weird? :-- :-- :--
4. Optimized accessing USB drive so that when a USB drive is moved to a computer, Windows will not prompt a restoration of the USB drive.
For those who wish to parse the response of the WF? ALL query, I've found this document, especially the Waveform template section to be very useful.
https://wiki.epfl.ch/carplat/documents/PDF/LC6800A_WM-RCM-E_Rev_D.pdf (https://wiki.epfl.ch/carplat/documents/PDF/LC6800A_WM-RCM-E_Rev_D.pdf)
With this documentation it was not to hard to get VOffset, VFactor data etc. from the response, instead of having to query them separately.
Also there're some fields with sizes in them, which can be used to get to the waveform data in a robuust way. Also knowing how many bits (1 of 2 bytes) the samples are. I don't think hires and averaging samples can be fetched with extra bits, but if it could these fields would be vital.
I still have the issue that WFSU NP,xx limits the number of point but results in having a single repeating value in the waveform data :-//
Also would it be nice if segments could be queried separately using WFSU SN,xx. Now I'm using a different approach, which works, but I'm essentially setting gui stuff, with (usable) side effects.
Hi,This somewhat mirrors my experiences in that a hard power OFF has the DSO not saving settings.
Just sharing some observation.
Plugged USB stick 16GB, works great, saving images, recognized after soft power-down, all ok, but,
after blackout (during standby - soft power down) usb still plugged in but after boot usb did not recognized.
After reboot without usb stick, plugging again usb all ok. Tested two times - unplugging from power in stand by mode.
Like scope didn't like being unplugged from power with usb plugged in.
Some new probe commands that hint at digital probesprobably this is for the 5000X and its active probe interface?
My wish, besides fixing the lack of trigger reference error in the CSV data, for a future firmware update for the SDS1104X-E is an addition to the XY mode. I would like to see an XYZ mode in which channel 3 or 4 could be used to vary the intensity of the trace. This way it could mimic the functions of analog scope in the ability to vary intensity and blank the display, and also be used to mimic and analog monitor fixing older CRT based gear.Well, we've got this on the todo list for the midrange model SDS5000X, and I think once we've got that, it could eventually trickle down to some other models as well. I will certainly recommend this! Or maybe this will be another instance of the reverse direction and we get it on the SDS1004X-E first - who knows?
Lead me not into temptation, just point the way and I'll find it myself!While the stock probes are rated to 600V @ 10x it would be wise to get some fixed 100x probes not only for their higher voltage rating but also the additional protection they offer the user and the scope.
Dang nabbit you guys you pointed the way and kicked me over the edge and even with all the nay sayers I still ordered one of these critters SDS1104X-E. Due in 2 to 4 days.
This all started when I was offered a Rigol DS1102E from one of my clients that was barely out of the box when her husband passed away. But it is only two channel! From there I looked at the Rigol 1054Z but the Siglent SDS1104X-E was only $23 dollars more.
I have been looking for a 4 channel scope for quite awhile. Most of what I need the scope for is three phase power work, testing RPC's (Rotary Phase Converters), VFD's (Varible Frequency Drives)
etc so I need the ability to be able to show three phases on the screen at the same time to compare them.
Still doing my homework as to what other probes I will need besides the stock probes.
Walter Townsend, TTDr
Would be nice to know if the isfe probes can be used to isolate all four channels. Case in point 3 phase Delta Configuration where there is no common ground, as opposed to Wye or Star configuration where there is a common ground point.Popped that question to tech support for you/us.
Walter Townsend, TTDr
...
One thing I can't confirm as I haven't checked is if 2 ISFE units will mount side by side onto the 4 BNC inputs and you'd need to check with one of our tech support people to confirm they do.
Yes this ^....
One thing I can't confirm as I haven't checked is if 2 ISFE units will mount side by side onto the 4 BNC inputs and you'd need to check with one of our tech support people to confirm they do.
Looks too wide to connect two units directly side by side. I wonder if they could be attached with very short coax cables with appropriate bnc connectors on each end without hurting performance.
edit: just realised one of them could be connected upside down so maybe they would fit ?
Given the limited 1MHz bandwidth of these units there should be no difference in the resulting measurements if they are connected with a pair of short BNC cables. That seems like the obvious solution to me.Shear stress is minimized in that Siglent use chassis bolt through bulkhead style BNC's in all their DSO's.
Plus it looks like the units will apply some shear stress on where the BNC connectors soldered to the PCB on the scope. Thus using short BNC cables seems like the best choice.
Lead me not into temptation, just point the way and I'll find it myself!While the stock probes are rated to 600V @ 10x it would be wise to get some fixed 100x probes not only for their higher voltage rating but also the additional protection they offer the user and the scope.
Dang nabbit you guys you pointed the way and kicked me over the edge and even with all the nay sayers I still ordered one of these critters SDS1104X-E. Due in 2 to 4 days.
This all started when I was offered a Rigol DS1102E from one of my clients that was barely out of the box when her husband passed away. But it is only two channel! From there I looked at the Rigol 1054Z but the Siglent SDS1104X-E was only $23 dollars more.
I have been looking for a 4 channel scope for quite awhile. Most of what I need the scope for is three phase power work, testing RPC's (Rotary Phase Converters), VFD's (Varible Frequency Drives)
etc so I need the ability to be able to show three phases on the screen at the same time to compare them.
Still doing my homework as to what other probes I will need besides the stock probes.
Walter Townsend, TTDr
At the sort of frequencies you'd encounter the cheap ones from eBay or Aliexpress would be fine.
This of course presumes you can probe with a common reference point (mains ground) for all your work however when you can't either 2 units of Siglents 2ch ISFE or a set of differential probes are the preferred and safe solutions.
https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/isolated-channel-optional-accessories%EF%BC%88isfe%EF%BC%89/ (https://www.siglentamerica.com/accessory/isolated-channel-optional-accessories%EF%BC%88isfe%EF%BC%89/)
https://store.siglentamerica.com/product/isfe-isolated-front-end/ (https://store.siglentamerica.com/product/isfe-isolated-front-end/)
One thing I can't confirm as I haven't checked is if 2 ISFE units will mount side by side onto the 4 BNC inputs and you'd need to check with one of our tech support people to confirm they do.
P4250 or CP-3308R which would couple to the Siglent better.They're fine for 100x passive probes and give additional protection at mains voltages but either cannot provide isolation if/when required.
Suppose a stupid question. But is there any reason a siglent scope would not support an externally powered usb hub.I don’t know how much power it draws, but if the scope is used as a power source, then the chances are quite high that the ground connection of the BNC is used to conduct most of the (negative side) current. Just like a SAG1021 does. One might think, that the connection is really short and almost no voltage will drop. But because those BNC are not made of copper (I assume), the drop might still be some mV’s. I don’t know what the output range is of the probe, but that might be significant.
Hmm, looks like the voltmeter and measurement histogram, and zone triggering features are buried in there too, however they don't seem to have menus. looks promising. Any word on them Performa01? or are they staying 5000 exclusive?I cannot tell for sure, but Histograms and Zone trigger are most definitely midrange (SDS5000X) features and I would be surprised I we'd ever get them in the entry level instruments.
The dynamic measurement I believe only uses full steps of the Vdiv, in reality they could probably use a sliding scale approach with the fine Vdiv to always keep the signal at about 80% of the ADC scale (maximum resolution) but I agree that would make it take even longer.
My experience with bodeV1 was that the phase had a nasty rollover situation, where if a signal was sat at about 180 degrees offset it would jump top to bottom of the screen despite only 1 degree variance in phase shift. Kind of wondering if there is now a way to unroll the phase shift so once it moves past 180 degrees it keeps counting in that direction. e.g. 190 degrees shift. or atleast set a reference phase offset (currently working onsite so have not dug into this in person yet)
My experience with bodeV1 was that the phase had a nasty rollover situation, where if a signal was sat at about 180 degrees offset it would jump top to bottom of the screen despite only 1 degree variance in phase shift. Kind of wondering if there is now a way to unroll the phase shift so once it moves past 180 degrees it keeps counting in that direction. e.g. 190 degrees shift. or atleast set a reference phase offset (currently working onsite so have not dug into this in person yet)
...
FFT:
- better structured UI
- selectable FFT length for easier setup without the need to change the max. record length in the Acquire menu
- up to 8 markers
- configurable search for peaks and harmonics
- table view for the search results
There are still some minor issues that will be sorted with the next update.
...
How awesome is the new FFT in firmware version 6.1.33? Answer = very awesome.Well, the FFT itself hasn’t changed at all. It’s just the markers and the table that have been added.
The ability to put markers with measurements on harmonics is very useful - seems to be just one step away from calculating total harmonic distortion (THD) for us. It does not seem to calculate THD yet though.
I don't really know how it is able to show so much dynamic range in FFT with an 8 bit scope. I have normal mode selected in acquire settings and in FFT. Is ERES/averaging on all the time or something for FFT even in normal mode? See attached picture - why is there so much dynamic range shown? Scope is looking at my audio amplifier that is outputting a 477Hz sine wave. If it is valid dynamic range that is very useful.
c should be 1908Hz rather than 2.05kHz.
You mentioned automatic distortion measurements … I wouldn’t rule out that we’ll get that someday ;)
Excellent objection!You mentioned automatic distortion measurements … I wouldn’t rule out that we’ll get that someday ;)
The usefulness of FFT feature for distortion measurements will be very limited by the 8 bit ADC that digitizes the signal. High fidelity audio measurements require a minimum of 16 bits, and preferably 24 bits.
...
Does anybody know how to set the WiFI password if the necessary character is not in selectable?Confirmed and reported.
I am missing the "
Does anybody know how to set the WiFI password if the necessary character is not in selectable?Confirmed and reported.
I am missing the "
The latest 6.1.33 firmware otherwise has given us a significant improvement in WiFi performance if my old beta SDS1104X-E unit is anything to go by. :phew:
WiFi connection seems very stable now and range is now much improved with the TL_WN725N dongle.
Any word on whether or not the WiFi bug fixes address the fact that the scope has trouble connecting to WiFi networks with spaces or special characters in the name? Does DHCP actually automatically update the IP address? WiFi connectivity has been a serious hindrance for this scope in my experience.
So I finally had a chance to test this question, and boy was I disappointed. The update states that PSK keys can be 63 characters long. Yay right? I am also happy to report that the DHCP also works, if you can actually get the damn thing connected to the internet in the first place (more about that later).The conclusion may be that these oscilloscopes aren't expected to be used in commercial environments.
Well unfortunately the PSK STILL cannot have any special characters OR spaces in it. Additionally, the SSID ALSO STILL cannot have any special characters OR spaces in it.
This is honestly ridiculous at this point. It makes buying the wifi adapter completely pointless, given that you have to jump through crazy hoops and modify your wifi router settings (which you may not even have access to in a commercial environment) to get the damn thing to connect.
How can this have been overlooked, especially when they were already working on the WIFI access in this most recent update?
Yep, Siglent missed some stuff for the special PSK characters and it's been pointed out to them. We wait for new FW.........Any word on whether or not the WiFi bug fixes address the fact that the scope has trouble connecting to WiFi networks with spaces or special characters in the name? Does DHCP actually automatically update the IP address? WiFi connectivity has been a serious hindrance for this scope in my experience.
So I finally had a chance to test this question, and boy was I disappointed. The update states that PSK keys can be 63 characters long. Yay right? I am also happy to report that the DHCP also works, if you can actually get the damn thing connected to the internet in the first place (more about that later).
Well unfortunately the PSK STILL cannot have any special characters OR spaces in it. Additionally, the SSID ALSO STILL cannot have any special characters OR spaces in it.
This is honestly ridiculous at this point. It makes buying the wifi adapter completely pointless, given that you have to jump through crazy hoops and modify your wifi router settings (which you may not even have access to in a commercial environment) to get the damn thing to connect.
How can this have been overlooked, especially when they were already working on the WIFI access in this most recent update?
The conclusion may be that these oscilloscopes aren't expected to be used in commercial environments.
The conclusion may be that these oscilloscopes aren't expected to be used in commercial environments.
I definitely can understand that, but what about a research environment or academia or eduction? Are we truly supposed to believe that these scopes aren't to be used in either a classroom, a laboratory, or an office environment? All of these generally do not let the user pick a ridiculously restrictive and insecure psk or ssid.
The inability to make use of “special characters” or blanks hardly qualifies as forcing a “ridiculously restrictive and insecure psk or ssid.” Most large institutions I’ve encountered avoid using them altogether to avoid the inevitable confusion with visitors or dealing with other non-compliant gear.
63 chars randomly chosen from a set of 36 makes for a pretty sparse possibility matrix.
Siglent America have FW 6.1.33 to download for a SDS1104X-E from May this year, but Siglent EU still has 6.1.26 from September last year. Is there a reason for this or could I just go ahead and update to 6.1.33 - I’m in the UK with the scope supplied from within the EU?Welcome to the forum.
Thanks,
Andrew
Siglent America have FW 6.1.33 to download for a SDS1104X-E from May this year, but Siglent EU still has 6.1.26 from September last year. Is there a reason for this or could I just go ahead and update to 6.1.33 - I’m in the UK with the scope supplied from within the EU?
Thanks,
Andrew
Initial reply from Siglent indicates 2 units ISFE wouldn't fit on SDS1104X-E however some BNC C-C measurements indicates they will...........just ! :phew:
As plurn has guessed one unit needs to be flipped, 1/ to fit the BNC's and 2/ to expose the USB A socket so to get power to the ISFE.
In an old thread about ISFE we examined their basic performance which is by no means can be called startling however now we have input attenuation to roughly match the ~200x of ISFE reasonable indicative measurements can now be taken and even further improved upon using the custom input attenuation settings X-E DSO's have.
This thread could use some updates however it's a broad look at the capabilities of ISFE:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-isfe-scope-front-end-isolator-any-opinions/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-isfe-scope-front-end-isolator-any-opinions/)
Back to the issue at hand.......well I believe 2 units of ISFE will indeed fit the SDS1104X-E but as I don't have 2 units we need to rely on measurements and here I've marked the center of ch2 and ch3 in pencil and as this photo shows there's basically zero clearance between 2 units.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=748914)
So a little ingenuity may be required to power both units and still have one USB A socket available for screenshots but I guess any USB phone charger should be adequate if its power is clean enough.
A screenshot
20V p-p 1000Hz from SDG1032X
BNC cable
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=748920)
Seriously though, I am a bit concerned about the weight of them hanging off the BNC connectors of the scope and if they get pulled in any way it could end up damaging the scope's front end.Thanks Walter for coming back to us with 4 isolated channels, very cool. Hope they fulfill your needs.
Thanks Rob, I had watched the teardown and had seen that, but between Murphy's law and the laws of physics, which say that if you hang something out in the air, it will get damaged! Like in machining, you never clamp over air, or building a structure, you never have a point load that is not supported by a foundation under it.
Below in Daves teardown from the rear of the mainboard you can see the the 4 posts and center conductor of each BNC and to the far right is the Pass/Fail BNC that's of the same type and fastens onto the rear metal case.
https://youtu.be/Kay4Jk2DHuE?t=313
So yes, maybe for piece of mind short BNC cables will alleviate the risk of damage in a shop environment.
HendriXML,Hi,
My subnet is set 255.255.255.0 for my network and a simple ping does not work.
Thanks,
Mike
TK,The scope will have two ip addresses, one for wifi and one for ethernet. Just to be on the safe side I would make them different, whether the ethernet cable is connected or not.
Scope Static IP is set to 192.168.1.212 and the router IP is set to 192.168.1.1 I have the DHCP range set in the router to 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.199 and use 192.168.1.200+ for static IP's
Thanks,
Mike
TK,The scope will have two ip addresses, one for wifi and one for ethernet. Just to be on the safe side I would make them different, whether the ethernet cable is connected or not.
Scope Static IP is set to 192.168.1.212 and the router IP is set to 192.168.1.1 I have the DHCP range set in the router to 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.199 and use 192.168.1.200+ for static IP's
Thanks,
Mike
+1TK,The scope will have two ip addresses, one for wifi and one for ethernet. Just to be on the safe side I would make them different, whether the ethernet cable is connected or not.
Scope Static IP is set to 192.168.1.212 and the router IP is set to 192.168.1.1 I have the DHCP range set in the router to 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.199 and use 192.168.1.200+ for static IP's
Thanks,
Mike
You shouldn't have both scope's WIFI and ETH addresses in the same network, if both are enabled.
+1
it receives the ping packet but then doesn't know which interface to use to reply... but is there any way to disable one interface?
Each interface should have it's own ip-address so who would return should not be a problem. How ever I think implementing "services" on multiple interfaces is not trivial. So I can imagine only one (primary) interface get the services behind them. Maybe the first that gets an IP address, hence the difference between dhcp/static. But thats guessing, with a perfect implementation both interfaces could be used.+1TK,The scope will have two ip addresses, one for wifi and one for ethernet. Just to be on the safe side I would make them different, whether the ethernet cable is connected or not.
Scope Static IP is set to 192.168.1.212 and the router IP is set to 192.168.1.1 I have the DHCP range set in the router to 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.199 and use 192.168.1.200+ for static IP's
Thanks,
Mike
You shouldn't have both scope's WIFI and ETH addresses in the same network, if both are enabled.
it receives the ping packet but then doesn't know which interface to use to reply... but is there any way to disable one interface?
Each interface should have it's own ip-address so who would return should not be a problem. How ever I think implementing "services" on multiple interfaces is not trivial. So I can imagine only one (primary) interface get the services behind them. Maybe the first that gets an IP address, hence the difference between dhcp/static. But thats guessing, with a perfect implementation both interfaces could be used.
However I even experienced issues using only ethernet, like a SCPI session that gets broken, when using the web service simultaneously. (Solution: close the web-page)
But it would be nice the UI would give insight in what interface is active, or let the user select one. :-+Each interface should have it's own ip-address so who would return should not be a problem. How ever I think implementing "services" on multiple interfaces is not trivial. So I can imagine only one (primary) interface get the services behind them. Maybe the first that gets an IP address, hence the difference between dhcp/static. But thats guessing, with a perfect implementation both interfaces could be used.
However I even experienced issues using only ethernet, like a SCPI session that gets broken, when using the web service simultaneously. (Solution: close the web-page)
As you say, all depends on the services/app running in the scope. I don't believe Siglent would go to the effort of devising such a thing just because someone wants to use both interfaces in the same network.
But it would be nice the UI would give insight in what interface is active, or let the user select one. :-+It does and always has.
I don't have the adapter and I won't get one either. Happy with ethernet. But I can imagine it doesn't show which of the interface actually works. (Assuming only one can)But it would be nice the UI would give insight in what interface is active, or let the user select one. :-+It does and always has.
Bottom right corner of the display shows when LAN or WiFi is selected and if they each are active.
The WiFi signal strength indicator will be grey'ed out when out of range and the LAN indicator shows a small red x when not connected.
It shows one or the other, only the active one (one selected) not both.I don't have the adapter and I won't get one either. Happy with ethernet. But I can imagine it doesn't show which of the interface actually works. (Assuming only one can)But it would be nice the UI would give insight in what interface is active, or let the user select one. :-+It does and always has.
Bottom right corner of the display shows when LAN or WiFi is selected and if they each are active.
The WiFi signal strength indicator will be grey'ed out when out of range and the LAN indicator shows a small red x when not connected.
Having an extra indication and a guide in the manual to solve the above issue would be :-+Yep the manual should show the WiFi indicator as a example for users and I'll ask Siglent to include this in their next manual update.
Good that you found the issue :-+Well when I looked back it had linked.
Also :-+ for the good indication of what's active.
I think I figured out what my issue is. I have a router and access point using the same SSID and the scope does not like seeing two of the same SSID. All of my other wireless devices on the network has no issues with two of the same SSID. If I power off the access point the scope has no issues.I was able to get the scope to work with both the router and access point power up and using the same SSID. The original settings had the access point using channel 4 (the weaker signal for the scope) and the router using channel 11 (the stronger signal for the scope). To get the scope working I changed the channel setting for the router to channel 1 (so the scope uses this channel first) and the access point to channel 6.
To All Thanks,
Mike
:scared:
Why do you think IP 192.168.1.168 is scope?
While trouble shooting my wireless connection issue I found something interesting. If you have the scope set for a wireless connection and using a static IP it also gets a DHCP IP. See photos below, scope is set to a static IP of 192.168.1.212 also the scope is getting a DHCP IP of 192.168.1.168.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
No, just WiFi, the Ethernet is not connected
No, just WiFi, the Ethernet is not connectedYep, cause you have static settings for each.
Based on your last info, my only conclusion is that the scope must be routing the IP packets between both IP stacks internally.That just might be possible too !
If you get me a 3rd IP than I'll be amazed!!! :-DD
After thinking about it maybe the USB wireless adapter is getting the DHCP IP 192.168.1.168 and the scope is using the static IP of 192.168.1.212. Also the USB wireless adapter has its own MAC address different from the scope.
Nope, it can only use one or the other not both at once.After thinking about it maybe the USB wireless adapter is getting the DHCP IP 192.168.1.168 and the scope is using the static IP of 192.168.1.212. Also the USB wireless adapter has its own MAC address different from the scope.
I thought you already knew that! The question is you accessing both IPs with just one connection. The scope behaves as having an internal network switch, as you configured both interfaces in the same network. Nice.
Nope, it can only use one or the other not both at once.
It might seem so but what you cannot see from MikeLud's pics when in webserver mode, only the settings relevant to the active connection type selected on the instrument (WiFi or LAN) can be seen. To see the other it must be selected, working and active.Nope, it can only use one or the other not both at once.
Yes, but through one interface you can "see" the other...
Which poses a problem: if you have all the network configured with DHCP, connected to the scope only via WIFI, but you have a static IP in the scope's ETH interface (as seems to be the case), one can have a problems of collision between IPs. Must choose DHCP pool with care or have both scope's interfaces configured with DHCP.
How awesome is the new FFT in firmware version 6.1.33? Answer = very awesome.Yep.
What does the first marker display?0Hz.
When will there be a firmware release update that fixes the lack of a trigger point in the data file?
Hello everybody, I am new to this forum.The signal is distorted but the vertical knob works just fine. Why would you set the vertical sensitivity to overload? What is the use case?
I have a doubt with my new 1204X-E oscilloscope. Can somebody please check if, with the probe set at 1X, probing the internal square wave reference generator, the wave shown in the screen is totally wrong and the verical position knob stops working, when setting vertical sensitivity 100mV/div and higher, due very likely to overload, since if I switch the probe to 10X everything works fine?
Thank you in advance
Luca
Hello everybody, I am new to this forum.
I have a doubt with my new 1204X-E oscilloscope. Can somebody please check if, with the probe set at 1X, probing the internal square wave reference generator, the wave shown in the screen is totally wrong and the verical position knob stops working, when setting vertical sensitivity 100mV/div and higher, due very likely to overload, since if I switch the probe to 10X everything works fine?
Thank you in advance
Luca
Hy TK, yes for sure it's no use. But I have just purchased my scope used, and wanted to make sure that it is ok. May you please have a look at the attached pictures and tell me if they look "normal" to you? Many thanks.Yes, they look "normal" to me. My unit does the same.
Sure. Just wanted to make sure it was simply due to dynamic limitation. Because the difference from 200mV/div to 100mV/div is rather abrupt.
That must probably be due to the fact that when switching from 200mV/div to 100mV/div a preamplifier kicks in.
May be it's me being more used to analog scopes.
Yes, I'm asking too much to that poor front end.
Thank you guys :-+
I dont think helloitsme is saying it is a poorly designed front end. He says it is poor because he is overloading itYes, I'm asking too much to that poor front end.
Thank you guys :-+
The front end good enough for it's designed purpose. There is nothing poor about it. It works.
I have, use, and have used many scopes; from old Tek tube scopes, HP, Agilent, R&S, and even Keysight 33 GHz real time scopes. The Siglent is an excellent scope for the price and I am very happy with mine.
The vertical cursor lines are aligned to the grid lines and the horizontal are not. It happens on all the channels with different vertical scales.
[ BUG ]BTW, the background of the window with cursors data is still awful because the text inside is often unreadable. I think it's not the first time I mention it but it seems that I'm the only one whom it annoys.
I found an interesing bug. The vertical cursor lines are aligned to the grid lines and the horizontal are not. It happens on all the channels with different vertical scales.
Attached the screenshots and zoom in on the cursor lines.
Did you try it?QuoteThe vertical cursor lines are aligned to the grid lines and the horizontal are not. It happens on all the channels with different vertical scales.
Let´s see if I could confirm it on monday, we got a siglent on work.
[ BUG ]I don't understand this "bug". Aren't you supposed to move the cursor lines to where you want the X1 - X2 or Y1 - Y2 lines to be using the multifunction knob? When you move them, you can match them to the grid, but most of the time you will align them to where you want to measure.
I found an interesing bug. The vertical cursor lines are aligned to the grid lines and the horizontal are not. It happens on all the channels with different vertical scales.
Attached the screenshots and zoom in on the cursor lines.
1V cursor should be at 1 Volt gridline, not a pixel (1/25 of V/div) below that.Vertical:
When will there be a firmware release update that fixes the lack of a trigger point in the data file?
I am happy with the scope except for this fundamental flaw in the data file structure.
:-+1V cursor should be at 1 Volt gridline, not a pixel (1/25 of V/div) below that.Vertical:
1 pixel = 1/50 div;
1 LSB = 1/25 div; => 1 LSB = 2 pixel;
;)
Is there any update on when new firmware will be released that fixes the lack of trigger reference in the data files?I process the SCPI wavedata myself. Which give a lot of possibilities, and independence of what the Siglent tool can or can't do.When will there be a firmware release update that fixes the lack of a trigger point in the data file?
I am happy with the scope except for this fundamental flaw in the data file structure.
<180> HORIZ_OFFSET: double ; trigger offset for the first sweep of the trigger, seconds between the trigger and the first data point
Does anyone know if there is a way to initiate a "Force Trig" manual trigger on this scope? I'm missing that function as a front-panel button compared to my Tek TDS.Interesting - you are the first in many years to raise this topic ;)
I made a new thread for those who like to see, or discuss the script.I've added another script, which allows for multi segments averaging / peak detect. When used with some added noise this can create hi resolution diagrams. Like below.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/automated-wave-capture-for-siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-dsos/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/automated-wave-capture-for-siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-dsos/)
Yep, reported to the Mods a little while ago.Testing 123I have made some I2C experiments with my nice SDS 1104X-E scope and have a question about the record length of I2C data.
I send I2C data from an Arduino Pro Mini to a MPC4725 12 bit DAC on slave address 0x64 followed by the update command byte 0x40. After each update 0x40 follow 2 bytes DAC data from 0x00/0x00 to 0x26/0x26 (total 117 bytes, from 0Volt to approx. 0.5V) .
If I decode this data on my SDS 1104X-E I can see only the first 66 bytes in the Long Data window, please see screenshot_1.
Question: is 66 the maximum I2C record length?
Another I2C question I have is about the data in the bottom (blue) data line, please see screenshot_2. Here the time base for the same data is 200usec/div.
As you can see the bottom data line is a fragment of the long data window. If I turn the Y-position to the left to see more data the complete data suddenly disappear, see screenshot_3.
Is this a bug in the scope software?
Many thanks in advance!
Somehow this thread is stuck if try open this page 60
After some moderator find what is this stuck problem, please remove this My message.
A few minutes ago I replied to the latest post on page 61 with the 3 images and again I received the error message:P60 is broken, possibly from an upload with a bad/wrong file extension or something.
504 Gateway Time-out
------------------------
nginx
What's going wrong???
via USB (EasyScopeX version 100R001B02D01P20) and have the extension PNG.
Each are 750kB.
The SDS1104X-E decodes what is in the screen, so if you are pushing the i2c start condition out of the screen, it will not decode.The workaround is to Decode in Zoom mode but with the main timebase as slow as possible (not ROLL mode) and then examine the decoded data in the zoomed window.
The SDS1104X-E decodes what is in the screen, so if you are pushing the i2c start condition out of the screen, it will not decode.
Strange.FYI not all file types can be uploaded directly to the forum:
I tried again and my .bmp files are around 750 KByte.
In .jpg format they are 120kByte. Both formats are 800 x 480.
I try to send the 3 screenshots in .jpg format.
I hope things are going well now
P60 seems still broken, so...If not they’re about to have a discussion about just that, whether they want to or not....spent some good time today on an email to those that can change things.
I posted roughly the following on page 60 of this thread:
With the recent onslaught of new firmware versions for Siglent equipment, most notably the sds1xx4X-E and the sdg2000X, Siglent's published User Guides (and Service Manuals) have become inaccurate in some respects and parts, and in a few cases just wrong
Is anyone working on documenting these changes, perhaps updating manuals or writing addendi?
Is Siglent addressing this issue?
Strange.FYI not all file types can be uploaded directly to the forum:
I tried again and my .bmp files are around 750 KByte.
In .jpg format they are 120kByte. Both formats are 800 x 480.
I try to send the 3 screenshots in .jpg format.
I hope things are going well now
Allowed file types: doc, gif, jpg, jpeg, pdf, png, txt, zip, tar, c, h, hex, bas, xls, odt, asm, wav, aiff, wma, mp3, flac, asc, ods, xlsx, py
Many file types can be converted to the allowed types with various programs like MS Paint or uploaded with a false file extension like .txt and add a note to remove the .txt so they can be used in their native/correct format.
All SDS****X-E models export screenshots in .png to USB and are only some 30-70 KB depending on the scope settings.
If your scope settings have been changed and now not exporting screenshots in .png use the Default button to return it to factory settings.
Later so to not have similar issues use the Save/Recall menu to change/set the behavior of the Default button where you can set your own default settings like V/div, active channels, timebase etc, etc.
You can also reset the Default to factory settings if you make some mistake or change your personal default settings later.
To USB stick ?
No big issue but after pressed the Default button and saved the same scope screenshot with all the possible extensions:
.png 751kB
.bmp 1501kB
.jpg 43kB
A very big difference in size.
To USB stick ?
No big issue but after pressed the Default button and saved the same scope screenshot with all the possible extensions:
.png 751kB
.bmp 1501kB
.jpg 43kB
A very big difference in size.
Tip, use the blue Print button to save directly to a USB stick. Much faster than using the Save/Recall menu path.
OK, now instead of EasyScope use the scopes inbuilt webrowser.To USB stick ?
No big issue but after pressed the Default button and saved the same scope screenshot with all the possible extensions:
.png 751kB
.bmp 1501kB
.jpg 43kB
A very big difference in size.
Tip, use the blue Print button to save directly to a USB stick. Much faster than using the Save/Recall menu path.
No I saved it via USB and EasyScopeX on my PC. Then in the Virtual Panel right-click and Save As --> the png is 750kByte
But your suggestion 'blue Print button to save directly to a USB stick' did it!:-+
Now the .png file is only 26kB.
Again: no big issue but rather odd and this big EasyScopeX .png perhaps caused the upload problems on page60?Possibly, something we need to check out. :-//
While it should not be the case, does the behavior change if you reduce your sample memory size?
Am I the only one seeing this behavior?No, you're certainly not.
Thanks for the explanation, Performa01! It's good to know that it's not something wrong with my scope.Try this and this observed behavior is somewhat different:
From an ignorant users standpoint, the behavior does look like a bug to me. I can definitely understand that it's processing a lot of data, and presenting that data will not always be real time. But as I could clearly see, presenting the data is not a bottleneck in itself, as it's quite fast when the memory length is shorter.
So the fact that the trace lags when updating measurements makes it look like the classic "doing background work on the ui thread" issue. Usually solved by doing time consuming work in the background and updating the ui when done. There could be good reasons for doing it the current way, including technical difficulties or complexity, accuracy (though since it only updates once a sec anyway it's not really representing any current state), or they don't worry about it since no one has complained.
Thanks for the explanation, Performa01! It's good to know that it's not something wrong with my scope.I understand what you're saying - and I also can only speculate about the reasons.
From an ignorant users standpoint, the behavior does look like a bug to me. I can definitely understand that it's processing a lot of data, and presenting that data will not always be real time. But as I could clearly see, presenting the data is not a bottleneck in itself, as it's quite fast when the memory length is shorter.
So the fact that the trace lags when updating measurements makes it look like the classic "doing background work on the ui thread" issue. Usually solved by doing time consuming work in the background and updating the ui when done. There could be good reasons for doing it the current way, including technical difficulties or complexity, accuracy (though since it only updates once a sec anyway it's not really representing any current state), or they don't worry about it since no one has complained.
@Performa01 - I've never used another scope, so I don't know what I'm missing (good or bad), but while researching I was looking into the Rigol 1054Z, and the Siglent seemed to be quite a lot more responsive from what I could see (on YouTube). So I see your point :) I'm generally very happy with the performance and the device. Great theory btw! What you're describing with memory limits during acquisition seems plausible. Siglent is maybe not able to improve it much further because of hardware, but possibly their more expensive DSOs have the capabilities to avoid it.The Rigol DS1000Z series do not have deep measurements, quite the opposite - they are essentially limited to the screen buffer. It certainly would be very embarassing if measurements would cause any noticeable lag in these devices.
I think you resumed it pretty well.That overhead can also help write less buggy code and make it much easier to maintain. So there is always a reason. Of course there is a balance and sometimes it's difficult to strike.
Just want to add that with the new development toolchains available to these new embedded procs, there is a tendency to have more overhead in all of the code (the tradeoff of faster time-to-market...). This overhead also penalizes the speed.
These equipments are no more compatible with fully Assembly development project (optimized to the extreme).
I am in search of a new (first) budget DSO, and I recently met this SDS1104X-e scope
Go for it!
While decoding...The red dot indicates that the display of the decoded value does not fit the box - in your case, the closing apostrophe of most ASCII decodes is truncated.
what are the red dots at bytes as per pic attached?
Some bytes don't have that, some have.
While decoding...The red dot indicates that the display of the decoded value does not fit the box - in your case, the closing apostrophe of most ASCII decodes is truncated.
what are the red dots at bytes as per pic attached?
Some bytes don't have that, some have.
This appears to be some borderline situation though and it is certainly funny that '1' fits the space, whereas the firmware thinks that e.g. 'i' does not ;)
It might be a dumb question, but I noticed on the pictures, that the scope has a menu on/off button at the bottom left corner.
Does it actually switches off menus and enhancing the viewing area, or the menu items turn off and the space remains blank?
Disabling the menus leaves a blank space. That blank space is then used for the decoding lanes which would otherwise crop the bottom of the display when menus are enabled.
Sometimes you want to trigger off some signal, but don't want it use screen space, because there is nothing interesting about it.
In that case you trigger from that channel and switch it off the screen. Which is exactly same behaviour as if you use External Trigger input.
Most of the scopes nowadays allow switching channel off while using it for trigger. It is a useful thing that I use very often.
Sometimes you want to trigger off some signal, but don't want it use screen space, because there is nothing interesting about it.
In that case you trigger from that channel and switch it off the screen. Which is exactly same behaviour as if you use External Trigger input.
Most of the scopes nowadays allow switching channel off while using it for trigger. It is a useful thing that I use very often.
This particular oscilloscope allows you to hide a particular channel (its trace) but the channel should be turned on. I assumed that if the channel is turned off then it becomes nonfunctional i.e. it cannot be used for anything (triggering etc). Am I wrong?
Siglent's are different, there are 3 states for a channel; OFF, ON and ON but Hidden.Sometimes you want to trigger off some signal, but don't want it use screen space, because there is nothing interesting about it.
In that case you trigger from that channel and switch it off the screen. Which is exactly same behaviour as if you use External Trigger input.
Most of the scopes nowadays allow switching channel off while using it for trigger. It is a useful thing that I use very often.
This particular oscilloscope allows you to hide a particular channel (its trace) but the channel should be turned on. I assumed that if the channel is turned off then it becomes nonfunctional i.e. it cannot be used for anything (triggering etc). Am I wrong?
I don't know about Siglent, but Keysight MSOX3104T works exactly like that: If you set it to trigger form CH3, and press channel button to disable it, it will disappear from screen but it will keep on triggering from it. It can be confusing sometimes, but useful...
The AC (and LF-reject) trigger can be highly dynamic and the absolute trigger level position would change all the time, hence would have to be displayed permanently. This might consume valuable processing power and would be visually distracting on top of that. You still see the selected relative trigger level in the trigger info tab.
No, it is related to the time it takes for the signal to swing from high to low to high. Nothing related to how many times the signal transitions levels.
Cursor measurements between the start of packets will give you the Baud rate.No, it is related to the time it takes for the signal to swing from high to low to high. Nothing related to how many times the signal transitions levels.
then, is there a way to see a frequency wich is related to trigger and shows how many times per second the frame is triggered?
You can monitor the trigger output at the back of the instrument with a 2nd DSO or a frequency counter with long gate time.No, it is related to the time it takes for the signal to swing from high to low to high. Nothing related to how many times the signal transitions levels.
then, is there a way to see a frequency wich is related to trigger and shows how many times per second the frame is triggered?
guys I've opened separate topic on this matter. here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds-1104x-e-trigger-holdoff-feature-(it-may-say-test)/msg2830052/#msg2830052 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds-1104x-e-trigger-holdoff-feature-(it-may-say-test)/msg2830052/#msg2830052)
the pattern trigger not really work for sinus.
Example: One sinus 100khz an one with 79khz.
Hi Martin
the pattern trigger not really work for sinus.
Example: One sinus 100khz an one with 79khz.
My cheap OWON scope has no problem with that. It has a alternate trigger.
There is a way for a feature request at Siglent?
Norbert
See this post for an example using Patten OR H triggering:Hi Martin
the pattern trigger not really work for sinus.
Example: One sinus 100khz an one with 79khz.
My cheap OWON scope has no problem with that. It has a alternate trigger.
There is a way for a feature request at Siglent?
Norbert
just out of curiosity i have also tried your setup and looks like siglent 1000x-e series are unable to trigger signal with different frequency independently...i have tried every setup to make the signal with different frequencies stand still but looks like i am unable to do that with siglent scopes....
Hi, I got it. I use "Logic OR".
But if I change the second frequency, then I have to readjust the level. Not pretty. The best way is to use an alternate trigger.
Happy Christmas
what kind of trigger did you use? normal or auto?
I've been playing around a bit writing some Python 3 code to talk to my SDS1204E-X. The screenshot below is a (pseudo) real time 3D waterfall display in which keeps track of the last 512 traces and scrolls them in time.
Great. I'll finish packaging it up and will provide the links here. Give me a day or so.:-+
siglent -n tcpip::192.168.2.201 --waterfall -c 256
Hi,I think you can do this but not for both rising and falling edges together.
Following advice on this forum I've recently bought an SDS110X-E as my first scope and I love it, so thank you!
After playing with it for the last week, I have a "maybe-newbie" question, there is something I thought I would be able to do based on the description but it doesn't seem to work. Can you tell me if this is a limitation of the scope or if I simply didn't find the right way to do it? I'm running FW 6.1.33 which appears to be the latest version.
I am looking at the signal integrity on a digital line with short bursts of data with large spaces between them. I'm using the Sequence mode to record the data frames at high sampling rate while discarding the useless spaces. Some of these frames have poor rising and falling times and I would like to use the Search feature to automatically find the frames where the slope is longer than a defined threshold, without having to scroll through the 2000 recorded sequences manually (even though the Navigate mode is handy). Unfortunately, it looks like the scope is only searching in the current sequence, so it is useless in this precise situation.
Any ideas? I admit it's not a deal-breaker, but it's a bit frustrating because I think combining the Sequence and Search features could be really useful.
Also, I found some (very minor) bugs : when the menu is Off, most buttons automatically bring back On to display the corresponding menu, but some (Navigate and Search for example) do not. However I guess there is no point in reporting such benign bugs to Siglent.The factory is on holidays but I'll confirm and write something up to send to them.
Hi,I think you can do this but not for both rising and falling edges together.
Following advice on this forum I've recently bought an SDS110X-E as my first scope and I love it, so thank you!
After playing with it for the last week, I have a "maybe-newbie" question, there is something I thought I would be able to do based on the description but it doesn't seem to work. Can you tell me if this is a limitation of the scope or if I simply didn't find the right way to do it? I'm running FW 6.1.33 which appears to be the latest version.
I am looking at the signal integrity on a digital line with short bursts of data with large spaces between them. I'm using the Sequence mode to record the data frames at high sampling rate while discarding the useless spaces. Some of these frames have poor rising and falling times and I would like to use the Search feature to automatically find the frames where the slope is longer than a defined threshold, without having to scroll through the 2000 recorded sequences manually (even though the Navigate mode is handy). Unfortunately, it looks like the scope is only searching in the current sequence, so it is useless in this precise situation.
Any ideas? I admit it's not a deal-breaker, but it's a bit frustrating because I think combining the Sequence and Search features could be really useful.
See this example:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1370717/#msg1370717 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1370717/#msg1370717)
Using SCPI commands a script could do this. If you're comfortable with programming that could give you an arsenal of advanced data processing capabilities.Thanks for the link. I've also bookmarked the project by @ewaller in #1573. I'm comfortable with programming but I've not yet studied the protocoles used to communicate with the scopes (SCPI? VISA? ...?), this is something I plan on doing later and indeed it looks like it opens a whole new world of possibilities. For instance, I need to look into whether these protocoles could be used to synchronize the scope and an external AWG (such as the SDG2042X, not the small AWG addon) and generate Bode plots, IV curves and things like that.
The selected waves could then be plotted using something similar like this:
https://github.com/HendriXML/XMLScripts-Project-WaveCapture (https://github.com/HendriXML/XMLScripts-Project-WaveCapture)
I think you can do this but not for both rising and falling edges together.Thanks for the suggestion, however as @rf-loop pointed out this doesn't use the Sequence mode. The problem I have with this is that if I don't use segments I have to set the horizontal setting to a large value to record all the data frames at the same time, but then the sampling rate is too low to record details in the slope of each bit. The Sequence feature is perfect to solve this problem, and using it in conjunction with the Search feature would be awesome.
See this example:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1370717/#msg1370717 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1370717/#msg1370717)
Sidenote what I also remember now... you can not save all stored segments at once to USB. Only individual segment.
Also there is STILL lacking play segments with trace stacking to screen (direct overlay or user selected waterfall, all or example user defined amount when playing back) to display.. for easy hunt differences between segments. These may rise usability lot. It collect data nicely but there is lot of lack of tools for handling acquired data... ;) These are small, simple and cheap things. Lack of these is not catastroph...we can also buy better tools if need but... Perhaps designers do not have so much real experience and knowledge about oscilloscope as daily tool in working. Also it is nice if can use mask test to stored segments and collect to memory these segments what violate mask etc. Specially when max segments are tens of thousands it also need tools for handling and analyze these. These are tools, not salesmen checkbox features in product sales brochures.
Hi,
Following advice on this forum I've recently bought an SDS110X-E as my first scope and I love it, so thank you!
After playing with it for the last week, I have a "maybe-newbie" question, there is something I thought I would be able to do based on the description but it doesn't seem to work. Can you tell me if this is a limitation of the scope or if I simply didn't find the right way to do it? I'm running FW 6.1.33 which appears to be the latest version.
I am looking at the signal integrity on a digital line with short bursts of data with large spaces between them. I'm using the Sequence mode to record the data frames at high sampling rate while discarding the useless spaces. Some of these frames have poor rising and falling times and I would like to use the Search feature to automatically find the frames where the slope is longer than a defined threshold, without having to scroll through the 2000 recorded sequences manually (even though the Navigate mode is handy). Unfortunately, it looks like the scope is only searching in the current sequence, so it is useless in this precise situation.
Any ideas? I admit it's not a deal-breaker, but it's a bit frustrating because I think combining the Sequence and Search features could be really useful.
Also, I found some (very minor) bugs : when the menu is Off, most buttons automatically bring back On to display the corresponding menu, but some (Navigate and Search for example) do not. However I guess there is no point in reporting such benign bugs to Siglent.
I like the case you presented: "software triggering". So I'll add a script which handles a similar situation. It will not only export the data, but also screenshots of matching segments. It will then also be easy to find the segments by number on the scope. The idea behind the scripts and libraries is that the communication (SCPI) is encapsulated by object classes.Using SCPI commands a script could do this. If you're comfortable with programming that could give you an arsenal of advanced data processing capabilities.Thanks for the link. I've also bookmarked the project by @ewaller in #1573. I'm comfortable with programming but I've not yet studied the protocoles used to communicate with the scopes (SCPI? VISA? ...?), this is something I plan on doing later and indeed it looks like it opens a whole new world of possibilities. For instance, I need to look into whether these protocoles could be used to synchronize the scope and an external AWG (such as the SDG2042X, not the small AWG addon) and generate Bode plots, IV curves and things like that.
The selected waves could then be plotted using something similar like this:
https://github.com/HendriXML/XMLScripts-Project-WaveCapture (https://github.com/HendriXML/XMLScripts-Project-WaveCapture)
You could use slope trigger, to directly capture only those frames that have offending slopes...Nice feature, seems like that meets the requirement!
You could use slope trigger, to directly capture only those frames that have offending slopes...Indeed, that's what I did at the beginning, but with Sequence and a simple Edge trigger it is useful to have the bad frames in the context of the whole transaction and to be able to scroll through them (with History) to debug the issue. In the end, it was easier to keep the Sequence mode with Edge trigger and scroll through the frames manually to find the bad ones than to use the Slope trigger and have results out of context.
I like the case you presented: "software triggering". So I'll add a script which handles a similar situation. It will not only export the data, but also screenshots of matching segments. It will then also be easy to find the segments by number on the scope. The idea behind the scripts and libraries is that the communication (SCPI) is encapsulated by object classes.I think it's still an interesting idea for the reasons above. I don't know how SCPI works, would it be possible to save a snapshot of the waveform in realtime each time the scope triggers?
Edit - the slope trigger can already discriminate between fast and slow slopes so there's not much benefit to redo this in a script. Will try to think of a different case that is worth the effort.
I think it's still an interesting idea for the reasons above. I don't know how SCPI works, would it be possible to save a snapshot of the waveform in realtime each time the scope triggers?It is indeed possible to repeatedly fetch the scopes waveforms.
Thinking about it, I guess it would also be possible to write custom decoders for unsupported protocols (maybe it already exists). I will look into that in the future.
But that's me nit-picking :-+ Also waiting for a trigger to be met without polling would be a nice feature.
It's not entirely SCPI, but I have a SRQ callback working with my DMM. From documentation I know some scopes support this too. The Siglent SDS1104X-E's have some rudimentary functionality which points in the right direction. But I think it's legacy stuff that does not work anymore. My investigation on it ended with:But that's me nit-picking :-+ Also waiting for a trigger to be met without polling would be a nice feature.I don't think this would ever be possible with SCPI.
I eventually gave it a shot in:It looks nice, I will give it a shot!
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/automated-wave-capture-for-siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-dsos/msg2879132/#msg2879132 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/automated-wave-capture-for-siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-dsos/msg2879132/#msg2879132)
Below a screenshot of a segment that violates the specified rise/fall time.
Let’s assume a single channel active at a 1ms/div timebase. With 14Mpts of acquisition memory, we stillWelcome to the forum.
maintain a 1GSa/s sample rate and the record length is 14Mpts, so it fills the entire memory. Yet when we
look at the history, we will find 3 records stored there, so there is actually a total 42Mpts of memory
available. Since this is the same for both channel groups in an SDS1104X-E, we could even claim to have
a total of 84Mpts of memory, but Siglent thankfully does not take the numbers game that far.
1.00ms - 1.00GSa/s -14.0Mpts - 3 screens on history ( 14Mpts x 3 = 42Mpts) per ADC
500us - 1.00GSa/s -7.00Mpts - 7 screens on history ( 7.00Mpts x 7 = 49Mpts) per ADC
200us - 1.00GSa/s -2.80Mpts - 19 screens on history ( 2.80Mpts x 19 = 53.2Mpts) per ADC
50us - 1.00GSa/s -700Kpts - 80 screens on history ( 700Kpts x 80 = 56Mpts ) per ADC BINGOOOO 56Mpts per ADC
Siglent SDS1104X-E have 2 ADC X 56Mpts = 112Mpts
Where is the truth. Why is Siglent silent about this?
sds1104x-e is a 56M oscilloscope per ADC
Let’s assume a single channel active at a 1ms/div timebase. With 14Mpts of acquisition memory, we stillYes and no. ;)
maintain a 1GSa/s sample rate and the record length is 14Mpts, so it fills the entire memory. Yet when we
look at the history, we will find 3 records stored there, so there is actually a total 42Mpts of memory
available. Since this is the same for both channel groups in an SDS1104X-E, we could even claim to have
a total of 84Mpts of memory, but Siglent thankfully does not take the numbers game that far.
1.00ms - 1.00GSa/s -14.0Mpts - 3 screens on history ( 14Mpts x 3 = 42Mpts) per ADC
500us - 1.00GSa/s -7.00Mpts - 7 screens on history ( 7.00Mpts x 7 = 49Mpts) per ADC
200us - 1.00GSa/s -2.80Mpts - 19 screens on history ( 2.80Mpts x 19 = 53.2Mpts) per ADC
50us - 1.00GSa/s -700Kpts - 80 screens on history ( 700Kpts x 80 = 56Mpts ) per ADC BINGOOOO 56Mpts per ADC
Siglent SDS1104X-E have 2 ADC X 56Mpts = 112Mpts
Where is the truth. Why is Silent silent about this?
sds1104x-e is a 56M oscilloscope per ADC
Is it possible to calibrate the internal time base or frequency display? my SDS 1104X-E always shows only 9.99995 MHz at an exact frequency (10MHz GPSDO)!
QuoteIs it possible to calibrate the internal time base or frequency display? my SDS 1104X-E always shows only 9.99995 MHz at an exact frequency (10MHz GPSDO)!
Same here, on the sds2000x+.
I think it´s a "digit problem", which means it´s not a real problem but a "natural" matter of fact.
Hi thereIt's like a POST test but if you don't like it in Utilities you can turn the sound OFF. Use Default and it will be back unless you make your personal Default settings and save then using the Set to Default feature in the Save/Recall menu.
Can anyone explain the meaning of the beep when starting the SDS 1104X-E?
My device sometimes beeps twice at startup? (Firmware version: V6.1.35R2)
Hi thereIt's like a POST test but if you don't like it in Utilities you can turn the sound OFF. Use Default and it will be back unless you make your personal Default settings and save then using the Set to Default feature in the Save/Recall menu.
Can anyone explain the meaning of the beep when starting the SDS 1104X-E?
My device sometimes beeps twice at startup? (Firmware version: V6.1.35R2)
New Firmware https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12 (https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12)
Version: V6.1.35R2
I'd like to understand how the internal frequency counter works. I measured an SPI clock of 10MHz. The measurements show a perfect frequency value but the frequency counter shows <10Hz. Why? What am I missing?The inbuilt frequency counter is for continuous waveforms for the channel selected to provide the trigger.
I found a mismatch between channels in my unit.
How are the versions of Siglent manuals numbered? For example, I have oscilloscope manuals versions UM0101X-E02A, UM0201X-E01D and UM0101E-E03C. How can I know which one is the latest?I go by the suffix so UM0101E-E03C is the most recent and the only one currently listed on the Hamburg website:
You might get a smaller mismatch if you switch to 500 mV/div, because the LSB gets smaller - is that true?
Also, is the bandwidth limited to 20 MHz on both channels? A BW limiting mismatch can contribute to min/max mismatches.I didn't try it. But with signals with a slow raise time I don't see this problem. May it be a kind of overshoot?
FEATURE REQUEST
Did you notice the Siglent logo on the screen of SDS1000X-E? To me it looks ugly and cheap. I thought it was the same on all Siglent scopes, but the screenshots SDS5034X in this topic show that there is another much better looking version.
I pasted the logo from SDS5034X to a screenshot from SDS1000X-E. Just compare the two versions and see the difference.
Question to Siglent: would it be possible to change the logo on the SDS1000X-E screen? I know that we are talking about a piece of measurement equipment but if it can look better why not to do it? Aesthetics is also important. This small detail will make the screenshots look more professional and not cheap.
Lowering the supply voltage is of course a possibility, but the cooling must also be sufficient.The idea of reducing the voltage results from the assumed operating temperature for SDS1000X-E, in this case max 40C. Since I have a max in the room 25 / 28C I can reduce the air flow.
An idea for Siglent: make the voltage to the fan dependent on the cabinet temperature. That would make a big difference! :)
What was the original fan type / manufacturer? I am going to use Sunon MF60251V2-1000U-A99.2018 stock fan pic attached. 2 wire unit, rare warranty replacement.
My SN# range is: SDSMMDBC2R****
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=966138)
An idea for Siglent: make the voltage to the fan dependent on the cabinet temperature. That would make a big difference! :)
An idea for Siglent: make the voltage to the fan dependent on the cabinet temperature. That would make a big difference! :)
Today I started changing the fan. My guess was confirmed. The fan is important but also the shape of the inlet (shape of the cutouts in the housing). Fans with a large diameter of the blade mounting part perform better in this model. So the fan blades should be short. Then the shape of the inlet less affects the noise.I don't believe anyone has rubber mounted the stock fan and if there is room I would suggest strips of ~1mm thick rubber from the likes of a bicycle inner tube.
My fan (MF60251V2-1000U-A99) is quiet but when placed on the housing it becomes loud. I solved this by reducing the voltage to 7.5V (I added a 100R resistor). I checked how strongly the air was blown out. I did it by hand so it is inaccurate. However, in my attempts it came out that the Sunon MF60251V2-1000U-A99 at 7.5V blows just as much as the original at 12V.
In my model SDS1104X-E there is also a PAAD16025SL fan and the serial number starts with SDSMMDBC2Rxxxx
Apart from all:
We got a siglent SDS1104X-E at work, our colleague from R&D use it in his office and the noise level seems to me (and him) nearly quiet - Maybe you got a defective one ? (what the fan concerns)
Apart from all:
We got a siglent SDS1104X-E at work, our colleague from R&D use it in his office and the noise level seems to me (and him) nearly quiet - Maybe you got a defective one ? (what the fan concerns)
didn't know it could be a serious tool 😁
wpa_supplicant -dd -K -D wext -i wlan0 -c /usr/bin/siglent/usr/wifi/wpa.conf
...
Wireless event: cmd=0x8b15 len=20
Wireless event: new AP: 00:00:00:00:00:00
wlan0: Event DISASSOC (1) received
wlan0: Disassociation notification
wlan0: CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED bssid=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx reason=0
wlan0: Auto connect enabled: try to reconnect (wps=0 wpa_state=9)
...
I see a lot of more Rigols in hobby and maker videos. And Keysight if the youtuber is into more advanced stuff. I sold some used Rigol and Siglent scopes and my estimate is that probably the market share is 10:1 in favor of Rigol on terms of interest and how they keep the resell value.Apart from all:
We got a siglent SDS1104X-E at work, our colleague from R&D use it in his office and the noise level seems to me (and him) nearly quiet - Maybe you got a defective one ? (what the fan concerns)
didn't know it could be a serious tool 😁
This tool was spotted twice in this video according to comments. People choose Siglent. :-+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66EZetk-HQ4&lc=UgzO1n173Jf3xYWG9ph4AaABAg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66EZetk-HQ4&lc=UgzO1n173Jf3xYWG9ph4AaABAg)
...
Enable 2G Data Rate Control
(Attachment Link)
...
Simply disabling this feature brought my scope online for good. Goodbye, ethernet! :-+
Tautech, is there a timeline on the next firmware patch for this scope?Last was 2020-03-07 so one wouldn't expect another for a bit.
Are they planning on addressing the WiFi issues mentioned in this thread?IDK. AFAIK the TP-Link dongle driver package was used in the scope therefore the WiFi connectivity stability is mainly due to AP settings which is something I suffer from too and thanked patman27 for discovering this and bringing it to our attention.
I'm also unable to use my Siglent SDS1104X-E (firmware 6.1.35R2) with TL-WN725N over WiFi.Welcome to the forum.
I am using an AVM Fritz!Box 7590 as WiFi access point and router (https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7590/) with the current AVM firmware 7.20. These devices have a very large market share here in Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz!Box).
The Siglent connects to the access point over WiFi (WPA2) and receives an IP address over DHCP but cannot be reached through this address (web interface, ping). The WiFi connection speed is shown as 1/1 Mbit/s (up/down) by the AVM web interface. That seems unusually slow.
For additional testing I have tried an older ASUS RT-N12D1 access point. No problems with WiFi there.
It would be great if Siglent would fix this issue.
The IP address that is assigned to the Siglent by DHCP is visible in the AVM access point interface. It's clearly not a routing issue (or mixed up IP address) but a problem with the Siglent WiFi connection to the AVM router.OK, can you get any access at all with the AVM router ?
The Siglent web server can be accessed if I use the ASUS WiFi access point instead.
The IP address that is assigned to the Siglent by DHCP is visible in the AVM access point interface. It's clearly not a routing issue (or mixed up IP address) but a problem with the Siglent WiFi connection to the AVM router.
The Siglent web server can be accessed if I use the ASUS WiFi access point instead.
FWIW I turn DHCP ON only to have an IP assigned to the scope then Save it and turn DHCP OFF.
Then point PC browser to saved IP and it works fine for a while depending on the task I'm doing.
Thanks, very helpful and obvious you know more about networks than I do. :-[FWIW I turn DHCP ON only to have an IP assigned to the scope then Save it and turn DHCP OFF.
Then point PC browser to saved IP and it works fine for a while depending on the task I'm doing.
This will cause lots of problems next time a new device on your network wants a DHCP address and the DHCP lease time for your Siglent has expired (typical router DHCP configs are 3-24 hours.) After that time the DHCP server will give out the same IP address to another device and if your Siglent is still on or turned on at a later stage, they'll both have same IP address causing all sorts of network related issues.
Best to either assign your Siglent a static IP address that is outside of your DHCP IP address pool range, so that it never clashes, or alternatively, use DHCP all the time and check your router or device to see what IP address it is using next time it turns on. Another option is to have the DHCP server remember the Wifi MAC address of your Siglent and permanently assign it an IP address, again out of the normal DHCP pool range. That way it will always be assigned the same IP address that you can refer to with client devices, but the Siglent just uses DHCP all the time.
I don't have a Wifi dongle for mine to check as I'm using Ethernet on my new Siglent.Your contribution to connection issues would be very welcome if you decide to get the TP-Link TL-WN725N (gold version) which are on eBay for ~ AU$15.
I have already checked the Fritz!Box settings. I have half a dozen ESP8285 Tasmota devices on the same Fritz WiFi network with the identical WiFi settings. They can be accessed without any problems.
And yes, I have assigned a fixed IP address for DHCP to the Siglent MAC address over the Fritz!Box interface outside of the dynamic DHCP range. That is not the issue.
BTW, if you use the WiFi USB stick on the Siglent, the static IP settings in the scope are ignored (apparently they are only for the Ethernet port). It's always using DHCP.
When the Siglent scope is connected to the Fritz WiFi (and cannot be pinged/accessed) it uses 40 Mhz WiFi channel bandwith. On the ASUS WiFi it's only 20 Mhz.
Maybe that's the issue. There are some reports about the cfg80211_disable_40mhz_24ghz=1 setting on Linux machines that helped in other configurations.
Yeah, that's been enabled. 5 GHz is disabled, too.
The Siglent connects with 40 MHz WiFi bandwith anyway. I have no other device that uses 40 MHz bandwith on the 2.4 GHz band. That seems to be quite uncommon and probably causing the issue.
The Siglent does indeed work properly with the ancient WiFi standards 802.11b+g instead of 802.11g+n on the AVM Fritz!Box 7590. It uses 20 MHz WiFi bandwidth then.
I think it's not unlikely that the Linux setting cfg80211_disable_40mhz_24ghz=1 could fix the issue with 802.11g+n enabled (if it's possible to change that setting on the Siglent).
I've been having the 1104 for several weeks now - still learning.
One thing that caught my eyes and I find pretty annoying is that I cannot see the top line of the screen unless I am looking perpendicular at the screen itself. If I'm standing in front of my bench - hence the scope is at "belly height" I cannot see it. The plastic frame around the screen should have been chamfered more to avoid this issue which I find pretty major as the top line has some crucial information!
I did a quick search on this thread and I do not see anybody else noticing it but it is so obvious to me.
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?Chris, you can bypass using the encoder for large adjustments by when the LED is lit for it signifying it needs input, press it again and the virtual keyboard appears where you can select digits and units.
I did this with my two other DSOs (different brand) and found it to be a great enhancement for me.
More often than not, I manage to cause an unwanted jump in value or selection when pressing the knob.
Maybe, tis is just me...
Regards
Chris
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?
Hi!,This query returns wether the channel is AC, DC or GND, which is quite important. However EasyScope (uses SCPI) does not show this value. This makes me wonder wether it is a known bug.
When I execute the SCPI query C4:COUPLING? it fails, while C3:COUPLING? returns a valid answer: D1M. I'm quite sure it is a bug.
Found a workaround! Using the short version C4:CPL? seems to be having no problem.Hi!,This query returns wether the channel is AC, DC or GND, which is quite important. However EasyScope (uses SCPI) does not show this value. This makes me wonder wether it is a known bug.
When I execute the SCPI query C4:COUPLING? it fails, while C3:COUPLING? returns a valid answer: D1M. I'm quite sure it is a bug.
I can't think of any reason why channels 1-3 work, but the 4th wouldn't.
Maybe someone is willing to verify this issue?
[VISA]
ScopeRN=TCPIP0::scope::inst0::INSTR
[Scope]
AcquireWay=PeakDetect
MemorySize=70K
TDiv=50 ms·div⁻¹
[Scope.Trigger.Select]
TriggerSelect=WIN
[Scope.Trigger]
TriggerPattern=C1,X,C2,X,C3,X,C4,X,STATE,AND
TriggerDelay=0 s
[Scope.CH1]
Enabled=1
Unit=A
Attenuation=1
VDiv=100 mA·div⁻¹
VOffset=100 mA
Coupling=DC
BandwidthLimit=1
[Scope.CH2]
Enabled=1
Unit=V
Attenuation=1
VDiv=4.94 V·div⁻¹
VOffset=0 V
Coupling=DC
BandwidthLimit=1
[Scope.CH3]
Enabled=1
Unit=V
Attenuation=1
VDiv=1.3 V·div⁻¹
VOffset=0 V
Coupling=DC
BandwidthLimit=1
[Scope.CH4]
Enabled=1
Unit=V
Attenuation=1
VDiv=1 V·div⁻¹
VOffset=-3 V
Coupling=DC
BandwidthLimit=1
However in the case of the TRSE? query. Not all parameters are returned (depending on the trigger type). Most importantly the trigger source, which is needed to extract trigger levels and more.When I execute the SCPI query C4:COUPLING? it fails, while C3:COUPLING? returns a valid answer: D1M. I'm quite sure it is a bug.This issue is BTW resolved in the newest firmware update: C5:COUPLING? typo in name.
Why is the X-Cursor time measurement only works when both X1 and X2 cursors are visible on the screen? Like I zoom in on a pulse making it span multiple screens, set X1 to the beginning of the pulse and X2 to the end and the time measurement is only accurate when both X1 and X2 are on screen. If one or both is not visible on screen, then the measurement is off.Yes this might be an issue in single timebase mode but it certainly isn't in Zoom mode.
Nice screenshots. I think the differences on the simple sine graphs are now consistent (looking at the persistent dot display)?
That time difference would correspond to a cable length difference about 25 cm. I guess you could safely use skew to make them align. (I'm not a bode plot user, so won't comment on that)
Did you try swapping cables?
After thinking about this some more, my guess would be that the fase difference calculation is done after interpolation. Thus "display data". That data will have poor horizontal "resolution/cycle" (vertical reso is alway poor :D) when displaying a large number of cycles. This would lead to the conclusion to do such a calculation with a minimal amount of cycles.
According to my tests in May 2019, the SDS1004X-E shows quite bad skew between its two ADCs with FW 6.1.33. This leads to huge phase errors if reference and output signal aren't processed by the same ADC. The skew is >8 ns, consequently the resulting phase error becomes visible at about 1MHz and above.
As far as I remember, the Deskew settings were ignored in Bode Plot mode. So while this skew is taken care of during normal operation, it shows up in the Bode Plot.
Consequence: if phase information is needed (which isn't alwasy the case), then this is only possible up to some MHz (depending on the rquired accuracy) with all 3 channels. For accurate phase plots at higher frequencies, only one channel (which has to be of the same ADC as the reference channel) can be used.
slightly off topic, but not too much: I have a younger brother (siglent 1202x-e); it often happens that when I print to save the screen, the oscilloscope freezes (no key responds), to turn it off I have to unplug it; does anyone in here have this unpleasant problem?
thank you
char
:popcorn:
slightly off topic, but not too much: I have a younger brother (siglent 1202x-e); it often happens that when I print to save the screen, the oscilloscope freezes (no key responds), to turn it off I have to unplug it; does anyone in here have this unpleasant problem?
thank you
char
:popcorn:
I do too, on my 1204X-E. There's been some discussion on that in this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg3067512/#msg3067512 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg3067512/#msg3067512)
Haven't heard anything from Siglent on the matter.
In my experience memory sticks can be a hit or miss. I was going to upgrade the firmware on my spectrum analyzer now. The first unti I grabbed didn't work on the Siglent, but the second did work flawlessly.
thanks blurpy for the testimony, so it's not just my 1202 problem ...
That Siglent pretends nothing is a good thing ...
:--
I add: see my message below, did you see that a user solved it by returning to firmware .23?
In my experience memory sticks can be a hit or miss. I was going to upgrade the firmware on my spectrum analyzer now. The first unti I grabbed didn't work on the Siglent, but the second did work flawlessly.
Attached is an old screenshot showing the phase error for all three Bode Plot channels with Ch.1 being the reference.
We can see that the actual skew is about 0.926 ns (40° phase shift at 120 MHz).
A skew less than 1 ns at a sample clock of 1 GHz for each ADC (500 MHz for each channel) isn't that bad after all - the only question remains why there is no deskew like during normal operation?
Of course I've brought this to Siglent's attention back then and the fact that it isn't fixed yet is either because of the very low priority of the Bode Plot or there are actually some technical reasons that we aren't aware of.
The 2nd screenshot shows the same scenario when viewed in traditional Y-t mode. Here we can see that the skew is well compensated (the remaining skew is due to the setup, not the scope).
It looks like Deskew *IS* used in BodePlot II..... but I have discovered that there are problems with Deskew that made it just appear by chance like it wasn't being used |O.Well, I've done rather deep investigations on many topics, some of them regarding phase measurements in general, also found (and reported) some related bugs back in 2018, but didn't further investigate the Bode Plot phase error between the two ADCs. Also, I had used FW 6.1.33 and we cannot know what has changed since then.
Deskew seems to work fine at 1 ns/div timebase, but is very broken at other timebases -- and those other timebases happen to be what Bode plots use while being generated.
For example:This is the expected behavior. Basically, you cannot have a finer granularity than 1 ns with 1 GSa/s rate. For finer steps, we need interpolation. At 50 ns/div, we have the optimum setting with the highest waveform update rate, just because this is the shortest record length that doesn't need interpolation. Faster timebases require interpolation and consequently, the deskew can be performed with increasingly higher resolution.
Using the same ADC, e.g. Chans 1+2.
If I have two signals that are about 780 ps skewed, I can go to 1 ns/div timebase and adjust Deskew to get them to match perfectly.
However, when I then change to, say, 50 ns/div the phase measurement suddenly jumps back to what seems to be the orginal phase difference! (The Deskew value is still set) Now, further adjusting the Deskew up or down doesn't affect the skew (visually or auto-measured) at all until 1 ns thresholds are reached -- at which point the skew measurement jumps another full ns to a new value and stays there until the next full ns higher/lower Deskew increment is reached.
If I change the Deskew enough to hit a threshold that it feels like changing the phase measurement at, *then* it will affect the Bode plot traces.Yes, it does. Hopefully my explanation makes sense too :)
I see this weird Deskew problem below 50 ns/div as well. 20 and 10 ns/div are easy to see, while at 5 ns/div it is more subtle, but noticeable when changing from 0 to +10ps Deskew.
Hopefully this description makes sense.
Older times 1G, then 2G and later 4 and 8G. Last years always 4 and 8G USB2.0 sticks after I find that these need keep and care because more and more difficult to find.
Only just in true genuine FAT32 format with 4k cluster size.
I noticed. Not sure if the same apply to older firmware for 1204X-E, but possibly.
it's usually a good idea to stick to well known brands and to be careful where you purchase them.
There are lots of counterfeits of some of the big brands.
In the pro audio world, where SD cards are widely used it can be a real nightmare.
The jitter produced by those cheap SD cards is unbelievable!SD cards are an atrocious invention. Most of them have optimizations for FAT filesystems. So if you try to format
WAIT: you are not talking about sample jitter, right?
No no no!!WAIT: you are not talking about sample jitter, right?
I'm afraid I was.
I failed to see how any SD card could be too awful for audio use so I assumed audiophoolery.
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?
I've been wondering the same thing. :popcorn:
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?
I've been wondering the same thing. :popcorn:
I have done it right after purchasing bc this non-detent encoder was driving me nuts - pretty weird design decision given that they have detented ones for vertical/horizontal anyway.
In fact, I've even taken the photos to dump here, but I'm a lazy arse so that never happened. :-[
I can't remember the P/N of the original non-detented one, but it turned out to be some sort of Chinese unobtanium. After searching a bit through what ALPS/Bourns/Omron offer, the closest I was able to find dimension-wise was Bourns PEC12R-4220F-S0024.
To my taste it has a bit too much detent force, otherwise it has been working absolutely fine for the last half year.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
UPD:
I still have the original part, it has no P/N, but LJV embossed on it.
I may do this upgrade, as I would really enjoy a detented encoder on the intensity/adjust encoder. Is there anything special that I should know about this upgrade before doing it?
Hi, planning to buy my first oscilloscope, is the 1104X-E still recommended?Welcome to the forum.
I'm studying to become an electrical engineer and will use it for audio projects with oscillators and filters as well as more digital automation projects with microcontrollers. As I learn more I want to be able to progress to more advanced projects. :)
who else offers 500uV/div sensitivity
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?
I've been wondering the same thing. :popcorn:
I have done it right after purchasing bc this non-detent encoder was driving me nuts - pretty weird design decision given that they have detented ones for vertical/horizontal anyway.
In fact, I've even taken the photos to dump here, but I'm a lazy arse so that never happened. :-[
I can't remember the P/N of the original non-detented one, but it turned out to be some sort of Chinese unobtanium. After searching a bit through what ALPS/Bourns/Omron offer, the closest I was able to find dimension-wise was Bourns PEC12R-4220F-S0024.
To my taste it has a bit too much detent force, otherwise it has been working absolutely fine for the last half year.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
UPD:
I still have the original part, it has no P/N, but LJV embossed on it.
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?
I've been wondering the same thing. :popcorn:
I have done it right after purchasing bc this non-detent encoder was driving me nuts - pretty weird design decision given that they have detented ones for vertical/horizontal anyway.
In fact, I've even taken the photos to dump here, but I'm a lazy arse so that never happened. :-[
I can't remember the P/N of the original non-detented one, but it turned out to be some sort of Chinese unobtanium. After searching a bit through what ALPS/Bourns/Omron offer, the closest I was able to find dimension-wise was Bourns PEC12R-4220F-S0024.
To my taste it has a bit too much detent force, otherwise it has been working absolutely fine for the last half year.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
UPD:
I still have the original part, it has no P/N, but LJV embossed on it.
Thank you, that was the information, I was looking for!
I have done such a mod to my 2 other scopes and the only regret was, not doing it in the fist place.
Chris
There are three names for good encoders... Grayhill and Grayhill and then also Grayhill.
There are three names for good encoders... Grayhill and Grayhill and then also Grayhill.
Jeez, those are expensive :-\
I like my unit very much. It was a very good investment in my home lab. In general it has a good hardware with software and UI/UX which can be much improved. During the lockdown in March I used it for working at home and the results I got were as good, as the results I got from much more expensive Tektronix and Keysight scopes I use at work. Still, compared to Tektronix and Keysight I have at work, it feels cheaper but you get what you pay for.Are new firmware versions still produced for 1104x-e? It's almost 3 years of that scope being on the market. I read that some issues (for example: bode plotting) are not solved yet. But Performa01 did a lot of work to help to improve that model (and what Siglent did with that work?). Or maybe hardware issues exists too and that is a problem (maybe Siglent tried to repair hardware faults by firmware updates and they only masked some problems).
Welcome to the forum.I like my unit very much. It was a very good investment in my home lab. In general it has a good hardware with software and UI/UX which can be much improved. During the lockdown in March I used it for working at home and the results I got were as good, as the results I got from much more expensive Tektronix and Keysight scopes I use at work. Still, compared to Tektronix and Keysight I have at work, it feels cheaper but you get what you pay for.Are new firmware versions still produced for 1104x-e? It's almost 3 years of that scope being on the market. I read that some issues (for example: bode plotting) are not solved yet. But Performa01 did a lot of work to help to improve that model (and what Siglent did with that work?). Or maybe hardware issues exists too and that is a problem (maybe Siglent tried to repair hardware faults by firmware updates and they only masked some problems).
Today, we want to save a signal as matlab file to usbstick.
To be more precisely, the FFT.
Unfortunately, it saves only the channel, not the mathfunction from it - Did we miss something to do ?
Or couldn´t do the sds1104X-E it in general ?
Hello, Sir :)
I've noticed that you are a happy user of a 1104x-e oscilloscope from Siglent :) Could you tell me, how your work looks with it? Is there something you love about it or something you hate in that scope? I am asking because I am very interested in it personally. Nevertheless, despite the not-so-large selection of oscilloscopes in a similar class (Rigol, GWInstek etc.), I still have some doubts. Mainly due to the first Performa01 user tests, when he found a lot of bugs (also hardware errors). It would be nice to hear your own thoughts from you.
Regards!
bodzio_stawski
QuoteHello, Sir :)
I've noticed that you are a happy user of a 1104x-e oscilloscope from Siglent :) Could you tell me, how your work looks with it? Is there something you love about it or something you hate in that scope? I am asking because I am very interested in it personally. Nevertheless, despite the not-so-large selection of oscilloscopes in a similar class (Rigol, GWInstek etc.), I still have some doubts. Mainly due to the first Performa01 user tests, when he found a lot of bugs (also hardware errors). It would be nice to hear your own thoughts from you.
Regards!
bodzio_stawski
Since bodzio_stawski is a new member and cant yet receive personal messages, I will respond to his above question in this thread:
...
There are indeed bugs in the scope, as there are in any scope on the market (Rigol also suffers from various firmware and hardware bugs/issues).
All told, with the ability to ugprade the scope to 200MHz and all options for no extra charge, its about the best deal on the market in my opinion.
What does it mean?
What does it mean?
Check out this post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/)
What does it mean?
Check out this post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/)
Ok:) Looks good, but all in all, keeping 3-years warranty period is more important for me and at the moment I want to consider the 1104x-e as a scope without any optional/payable features and then check if it is still worth of money.
Unless a hacking of that scope to 200 MHz also improves quality of the other features that doesn't work correctly with previous version. Moreover, in the past I was afraid that all malfunctions or bugs will dissappear one day and then the manufacturer will say that there is no reason to keep this scope hacking-friendly ("so buy the additional functions or stary with an unfinished device") :) Now I see my thinking was bad, but I still think that in 2017 the manufacturer started selling an unfinished device.
Is this also possible with the Siglent? I have seen at least one person complaining that the equivalent to this was not possible, or at least not straightforward. Is that right?
I am thinking about returning a recently-purchased Rigol DS1054Z and replacing it with a Siglent SDS1104X-E. I'm trying to understand if the Siglent has any problems that will cause issues for me, so have been reading about it. One thing I came across concerned the use of the memory buffer. On the Rigol, at any horizontal sweep speed, I can specify to use a 24Msample buffer, put the scope into single trigger mode, and wait for the trigger event to happen. When it does, the buffer will be full, with half the data coming from before the trigger event and half after. I can then easily move around and look at the data on both sides of the event. I find this very useful.Capture memory management strategy is mirrored to the same strategies used by LeCroy and Pico.
Is this also possible with the Siglent? I have seen at least one person complaining that the equivalent to this was not possible, or at least not straightforward. Is that right?
Is this also possible with the Siglent?Capture memory management strategy is mirrored to the same strategies used by LeCroy and Pico.
... snip mumbo jumbo
The Single or Stop capture memory depth is just what is on the display and detailed inspection of it is limited to zooming in and panning around within the original capture therefore zooming in on a 1ms/div capture at 1us/div offers a large record to inspect.
Yes exactly this ^ although I should add that when using 2 channels due to there's 2 ADC's in 4ch X-E's you can place the 2nd channel on the other ADC which also offers 14 Mpts of memory support therefore not halving the memory depth or sampling rate like scopes that have a single ADC.The Single or Stop capture memory depth is just what is on the display and detailed inspection of it is limited to zooming in and panning around within the original capture therefore zooming in on a 1ms/div capture at 1us/div offers a large record to inspect.
OK. So the idea is, if I want to capture a long sequence around a particular trigger, then slow down the horizontal sweep until the full memory that I want to retain is on screen. For example if I am just looking at one channel and want to use the full 14 Msamples, then at 1 Gsample/second I need to capture 14 msec. So slow down the sweep to 1msec/division, then do single shot.
After I have that, I can then scroll along to any point in that 14 msec of data, and use the horizontal control to zoom in as much as needed.
Is that right? So the only difference with the Rigol is that I need to deliberately slow the sweep in advance rather than expecting a long data stretch to "just be there". That's not unreasonable.
I'd like to read the complete state of the scope using SCPI commands to be able to reload it later on. With most parameters this can be done, but I seem to have found 2 exceptions:Yep, looking at:
* The visibility of the trace (wether its enabled, but hidden)
* The "Enhanced by bits" parameter of the aquisition.
Maybe I'm missing something? I know a binairy version of the state can be retrieved with a single command, but because that format is not documented, I wouldn't want to take that road. Also when only different parameters values (determined by reading the current state) are set using dedicated commands this is much faster (depending on the number of differences). The saved state should also be editable, thus no simple binairy reading and the writing the same stuff.
I have a Siglent SDS1104X-E hacked to 200 MHz and have installed the WiFi option. At the moment I have no plans to get or use the Arbitrary Waveform Generator (AWG) or the Logic Analyzer (LA) but was wondering, is there any reason NOT to install them? Will it have any negative effect on performance or in some other way? If not, I might as well install them, perhaps in a few years some cheap AWG or LA hardware will turn up on Ebay.Not at all however you have 30 free trial uses for any options so they are effectively active already albeit only for 30 uses.
I am liking my hacked SDS1104X-E a lot. Features that I like in comparison with the DS1054Z that I returned include:
- display is a simple 1-1 mapping of the data (no disappearing data in dots mode)
- the heat map "color mode" display looks as if it will be useful
- lower input noise/higher vertical sensitivity
- the built-in web server works well, and it's easy and cheap to add WiFi capability
- able to quickly drop data files/snapshots on my desktop via the web
- the FFT works very well (I've only played around with the calibrator signal)
One thing I would find useful is to have horizontal sweep settings much slower than 100s/division, for data logging. For example I'm just replacing the crappy NiCd batteries & charging circuit in a precision clinometer (Talyvel 4) with a constant current source + battery managament/balance board + 18650 lithium ion batteries. The meter was set to show a "low batt" indicator when either the positive or negative battery rail drops below 7v. I'd like to adjust that threshold to indicate (say) 2 hours of remaining battery life. But what is that? Ideally I would connect one channel each to the positive and negative battery supply, and one channel each to the regulated +-5V internal rails. Then just run it for a day, logging (say) 100 data points/second = 36,000/hour for 10 hours. A quick look at the plots would let me see when the regulated rails drop below 5V, then I can see what the battery voltage is, 2 hours before that.
I'm sure that there are data loggers just for this, and yes I can rig up a script on my laptop to do the logging. But would be nice to just do it on the scope. If there were horizontal sweeps going to 5000 or 10000 secs/division that would do it nicely.
Maybe you can be tempted to get the right tool for that job like one of these:
https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sdl1000x/
Solution was. Use SDS1000X-E History buffer because I realize I do not need just continuous trace.
Do I need generator what trig scope every second. ... well, no. There are timers in Trigger menu! Example trig Holdoff, up to 1.5s. So just set for 1s and fine adjust for best result.
And if set 10us div then get 140 samples to memory every second. If it is near DC also can look samples average then later after all collected. of course for more short time data log it can adjust very different but always there is some dead time between segments.
After 80000 second memory is full. Then open history and start looking. Also there can see time stamp where can look perfect relative time of these "segments".
One form of "datalogger."
I once had some fun with using the scope for very precise ( 0.1 mV precision at around 1.2V) datalogging.Solution was. Use SDS1000X-E History buffer because I realize I do not need just continuous trace.
Do I need generator what trig scope every second. ... well, no. There are timers in Trigger menu! Example trig Holdoff, up to 1.5s. So just set for 1s and fine adjust for best result.
And if set 10us div then get 140 samples to memory every second. If it is near DC also can look samples average then later after all collected. of course for more short time data log it can adjust very different but always there is some dead time between segments.
After 80000 second memory is full. Then open history and start looking. Also there can see time stamp where can look perfect relative time of these "segments".
One form of "datalogger."
Thank you, that's a perfect solution!!
EDIT: I've been playing around to get this to work, and realised that I don't understand history/sequence/frames. I've tried to read the manual, but this part is not well written, and I have not figured out how to make this work other than randomly. Is there a written explanation somewhere, or a video online, that demonstrates/explains this? Note: I am coming from the analog/CRT scope world, so this is probably just lack of experience. But I have no internal mental model for how frames/sequences/history works. What's going on under the hood?Instead of using the full buffer for one capture, thus one trigger. It handles more triggers by filling parts of the buffer (segments/frames) in sequence.
Yes with the invisible 56 Mpt (IIRC) History buffer that runs continuously alongside the 2x 14 Mpts of memory depth.EDIT: I've been playing around to get this to work, and realised that I don't understand history/sequence/frames. I've tried to read the manual, but this part is not well written, and I have not figured out how to make this work other than randomly. Is there a written explanation somewhere, or a video online, that demonstrates/explains this? Note: I am coming from the analog/CRT scope world, so this is probably just lack of experience. But I have no internal mental model for how frames/sequences/history works. What's going on under the hood?Instead of using the full buffer for one capture, thus one trigger. It handles more triggers by filling parts of the buffer (segments/frames) in sequence.
Analogy:
Instead of taking one photo, its more like recording a movie.
EDIT: I've been playing around to get this to work, and realised that I don't understand history/sequence/frames. I've tried to read the manual, but this part is not well written, and I have not figured out how to make this work other than randomly. Is there a written explanation somewhere, or a video online, that demonstrates/explains this? Note: I am coming from the analog/CRT scope world, so this is probably just lack of experience. But I have no internal mental model for how frames/sequences/history works. What's going on under the hood?
I wasn't aware of the buffer being used to its capacity in normal mode as well (building up history), that really nice to know!EDIT: I've been playing around to get this to work, and realised that I don't understand history/sequence/frames. I've tried to read the manual, but this part is not well written, and I have not figured out how to make this work other than randomly. Is there a written explanation somewhere, or a video online, that demonstrates/explains this? Note: I am coming from the analog/CRT scope world, so this is probably just lack of experience. But I have no internal mental model for how frames/sequences/history works. What's going on under the hood?Instead of using the full buffer for one capture, thus one trigger. It handles more triggers by filling parts of the buffer (segments/frames) in sequence.
Analogy:
Instead of taking one photo, its more like recording a movie.
The only way to prevent that from happening is to tell it to reject noise, but in light of the trigger definition, that shouldn't be necessary at all ... unless the triggering mechanism doesn't work the way I think it does.
And hence, my question: how *exactly* does the slope triggering mechanism work, and why would it be triggering on noise in the seeming absence of an initial rising edge that meets the defined criteria?
Have you checked Holdoff is set to minimum ?
Frequency ? So we can play along at home.
Screenshot using a Run/Stop so we can also see the waveform.
How do I take a screenshot with it showing the menu it was on immediately prior to hitting the "save/recall" button? Whenever I take a screenshot, it always shows the "save/recall" menu itself, which isn't very useful here ...Blue Print button. ;)
Interesting.. Maybe post some screenshots of different zoom levels? (Trigger settings included.)
Have you tried swapping the Level positions ?
See how they are half pointers.....and you're using a rising trigger.
Wouldn't a mask fail not also stop the aquisition?
Are you using normal or auto trigger mode?
So we're not looking at a triggered stop in the screenshot. :-//Wouldn't a mask fail not also stop the aquisition?
The mask feature can be configured to stop the acquisition upon failure, and that's how I've got it configured here. It's really handy if you want to catch a misbehaving waveform in the act.
So we're not looking at a triggered stop in the screenshot. :-//Wouldn't a mask fail not also stop the aquisition?
The mask feature can be configured to stop the acquisition upon failure, and that's how I've got it configured here. It's really handy if you want to catch a misbehaving waveform in the act.
But there're now 2 things in play...So we're not looking at a triggered stop in the screenshot. :-//Wouldn't a mask fail not also stop the aquisition?
The mask feature can be configured to stop the acquisition upon failure, and that's how I've got it configured here. It's really handy if you want to catch a misbehaving waveform in the act.
The trigger just determines when the waveform is captured. I'm using the mask to automatically stop the scope when a violation of the expected waveform is detected. They're completely different subsystems that work in tandem.
The issue here is that the triggering mechanism is capturing waveforms when I wouldn't expect it to. When that happens, the mask mechanism detects it and stops the scope, thus allowing you to see the waveform that was captured and which failed the mask.
But there're now 2 things in play...
Either the triggering does not work as you expect OR the masking and when it stops doesn't work as you expect... It seems like a good idea to take one away..
The issue here is that the triggering mechanism is capturing waveforms when I wouldn't expect it to.
Maybe using segments and review them for a failing trigger is an idea? Thus not using masks ar all?
Maybe it is a combination of mask and trigger, so I would first start to look for the simplest setup that causes the issue. If it doesn't happen without a mask thats good info. If it also happens without a mask the screenshot might give a better insight. For now it seems that the inverse of the mask would have given a valid trigger.. thats puzzling.. and cannot be discarded imo.But there're now 2 things in play...
Either the triggering does not work as you expect OR the masking and when it stops doesn't work as you expect... It seems like a good idea to take one away..
You don't need the mask to see that the trigger has happened in the wrong spot and the mask doesn't affect the trigger or the capture, it just stops the scope and prevents any future triggers. What you see is exactly what you would see if you got lucky with a single shot and captured the mistrigger. The mask isn't anything to worry about here, but I'm a bit puzzled as to the operation of the trigger.
The issue here is that the triggering mechanism is capturing waveforms when I wouldn't expect it to.
Can you change the timebase to 1ms/div so that you get the full 1GS/s sample rate and then do the same test to see if it mistriggers?
Sure, I could do that too. The problem is that in order to do that, I have to reduce the number of samples captured, thus reducing the chance that I'll see what the triggering mechanism saw. I'd also have to manually stop the scope quickly enough that the errant waveform is still in one of the segments. I could use a 14k point sample buffer, and that'd give me lots of segments, but that would also minimize the chance that I'd see the problem that the triggering mechanism saw.In aquisition menu, you can set the number of segments you want to capture and then it stops. These can then be replayed, I think a wrong one should be easy to spot then. Using a script the segments can be analysed automatically, but that might be a bridge to far..
Sure, I could do that too. The problem is that in order to do that, I have to reduce the number of samples captured, thus reducing the chance that I'll see what the triggering mechanism saw. I'd also have to manually stop the scope quickly enough that the errant waveform is still in one of the segments. I could use a 14k point sample buffer, and that'd give me lots of segments, but that would also minimize the chance that I'd see the problem that the triggering mechanism saw.In aquisition menu, you can set the number of segments you want to capture and then it stops. These can then be replayed,
I think a wrong one should be easy to spot then. Using a script the segments can be analysed automatically, but that might be a bridge to far..
And, it turns out that it's not that hard at all. I did this, with 140k points per capture. There was one failed waveform in just over 200 segments. That one waveform does not show any evidence as to the trigger's stated conditions being met, despite the fact that the trigger fired.Yes because it rearmed. Use Single and it should capture it at any timebase setting.
>Quote from: kcbrown on Today at 07:01:10 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=94245.msg3358040#msg3358040)The issue here is that the triggering mechanism is capturing waveforms when I wouldn't expect it to.
Can you change the timebase to 1ms/div so that you get the full 1GS/s sample rate and then do the same test to see if it mistriggers?
Wouldn't be that hard, actually. But it raises a question: how do you save all of the segments? I see no option in the save/restore menu to do that.Using script the data of a segment can be retrieved when it is in view, to get all the script needs to place them in view one after another. Using the gui could be time consuming if it even can be done like that.
Obviously there is some glitch firing the rising trigger as seen within the higher level in this screenshot.
To examine this better the timebase needs zooming in so to see the spikes that are firing the trigger.
As posted before, use the blue Print button to grab screenshots and send them straight to a USB stick.
kevin@ubuntu:/tmp$ cat FAIL1GS.csv | awk -F, 'BEGIN {min = 100.0; mintime = 0;} { if ($1 >= -1.5E-03 && $1 <= 0 && $2 < min) { min = $2; mintime = $1; } } END {print mintime, min}'
-2.700000E-08 +4.330000E+00
And, it turns out that it's not that hard at all. I did this, with 140k points per capture. There was one failed waveform in just over 200 segments. That one waveform does not show any evidence as to the trigger's stated conditions being met, despite the fact that the trigger fired.Yes because it rearmed.
Use Single and it should capture it at any timebase setting.I did this, with a 14 megasample capture buffer, captured with peak detect, and finally managed to stop myself from pressing the "single" button after seeing a problem capture. :D
kevin@ubuntu:/tmp$ cat FAIL1GS-SINGLE.csv | awk -F, 'BEGIN {min = 100.0; mintime = 0;} { if ($1 >= -1.5E-03 && $1 <= 0 && $2 < min) { min = $2; mintime = $1; } } END {print mintime, min}'
-1.062040E-04 +4.330000E+00
Yeah, but it's not visible in the data!
The data shows that the *minimum* value captured for the trigger precondition is 4.33V, which is 0.7V *above* the 3.5V threshold that the trigger precondition should be passing through.
kc, I'll do a little exercise with your triangular waveform later in the evening when I've got some real time as the rising Slope trigger is giving unexpected results and we need get to the bottom of this. :-//
Will have something for you to examine come your morning.
Yeah, but it's not visible in the data!
The data shows that the *minimum* value captured for the trigger precondition is 4.33V, which is 0.7V *above* the 3.5V threshold that the trigger precondition should be passing through.
Can you use the scopes GUI to zoom in on that glitchy area 1.4-1.5ms before the trigger (the entire area that is eligible for triggering purposes in your setup) and look at the trace, not the data? This might seem wierd, but since the trigger (AFAIK) doesn't use the data, but rather the sinx/x function of it, under certain noise or glitch conditions the calculated trace and trigger level could be well outside the actual data. That seems farfetched, but I'm grasping at straws here--there doesn't seem to be a good explanation for this behavior. And noise reject fixes it.
Obviously there is some glitch firing the rising trigger as seen within the higher level in this screenshot.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=1124686)
To examine this better the timebase needs zooming in so to see the spikes that are firing the trigger.
Even with sin(x)/x interpolation, there should be something in the data that would cause the interpolated waveform to dip below 3.5V here (remember that 3.5V is more than 1V less than the typical voltage seen at around -1.5 ms). It means there should be *something* at or near that voltage level in the data. And there just isn't.
Either the trigger mechanism is consistently detecting a voltage swing that is present in the signal but isn't being captured by the sampler, or the trigger mechanism is malfunctioning.
Hint: It need now note that he use SLOPE trigger! ;)
The sinc function can give surprising results sometimes, especially if the bandwidth is not correctly accounted for. Is your scope hacked to 200MHz? It does seem that the trigger is seeing or calculating something not in the trace.
It's entirely possible that there's something in the signal that the trigger is latching onto that is somehow not making it to the capture. I can understand that happening occasionally. But this is happening often enough that it makes me suspicious that there's something else going on, possibly something subtle about how the slope trigger mechanism works that I'm not accounting for.
It's entirely possible that there's something in the signal that the trigger is latching onto that is somehow not making it to the capture. I can understand that happening occasionally. But this is happening often enough that it makes me suspicious that there's something else going on, possibly something subtle about how the slope trigger mechanism works that I'm not accounting for.
Do you have an AWG so that you can replicate this signal by DDS?
As far as how it happens, I would think that it has to be a combination of something your circuit is doing and a susceptibility in the trigger design. But if it does the same thing with a signal from a different source at the same point in the waveform, then the problem is just the trigger design. Is there anything happening in the input circuit at the point in the waveform that the occasional mistrigger occurs?
Type: slope
Slope: rising
Voltage boundaries: 3.5V to 4.5V
Limit range type: [-- . --]
Limit range values: 1.2ms to 1.4ms
Noise reject: off
Well, the point of the triggering mechanism is that it should trigger only when all of the conditions you define are actually present. Therein lies the crux of the matter -- I've seen no evidence that all of the conditions really *are* present. Its possible that there's something on the input side of the circuit that is ultimately resulting in the kind of noise spike that would have to be present for the triggering mechanism to fire the way it is, but I haven't gone looking for that. But now that you mention it, I should probably be sampling that on a different channel so I can see if there's anything unusual there.
First, this scope whole trigger system is all after ADC. Trigger engine do not see ANY single thing but just 8 bit data bytes coming from ADC. If in this data stream is not spike or what ever, these can not also affect triggering. Absolutely and infinitely. I know it deeply enough for this claim.
Also every single byte from ADC, what have moved to acquisition memory after possible decimation, is also display mapped..... Siglent is "bullet proof" in this. It do not decimate when samples density is much more than pixel density.
And thank you again. To paraphrase, dots are samples, provided that the display isn't too crowded. But would a one-sample spike be visibly displayed on a screen with 14Mpts, even in Normal mode and not Peak?
Of course then ADC data is decimated, from 100 raw samples it take only one to acquisition memory and rest it throw away. But in this case peaks can affect and they are not visible because Primary Trig engine is before this decimation!!!
And note, of course trigger engine see sample interval and its resolution is this but of course this is not at all enough.
There need interpolate between these 2 or 1 ns sample points for final positioning.
Well, the point of the triggering mechanism is that it should trigger only when all of the conditions you define are actually present. Therein lies the crux of the matter -- I've seen no evidence that all of the conditions really *are* present. Its possible that there's something on the input side of the circuit that is ultimately resulting in the kind of noise spike that would have to be present for the triggering mechanism to fire the way it is, but I haven't gone looking for that. But now that you mention it, I should probably be sampling that on a different channel so I can see if there's anything unusual there.
First, this scope whole trigger system is all after ADC. Trigger engine do not see ANY single thing but just 8 bit data bytes coming from ADC. If in this data stream is not spike or what ever, these can not also affect triggering. Absolutely and infinitely. I know it deeply enough for this claim.
It was and user error was confirmed.kc, I'll do a little exercise with your triangular waveform later in the evening when I've got some real time as the rising Slope trigger is giving unexpected results and we need get to the bottom of this. :-//
Will have something for you to examine come your morning.
Awesome, thanks! Should be interesting.
It was and user error was confirmed.kc, I'll do a little exercise with your triangular waveform later in the evening when I've got some real time as the rising Slope trigger is giving unexpected results and we need get to the bottom of this. :-//
Will have something for you to examine come your morning.
Awesome, thanks! Should be interesting.
Slope triggering works as expected if you RTFM !
Expressly this:
The slope trigger looks for a rising or falling transition from one level to another level in greater than or less than a certain amount of time.
P71
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2020/11/SDS1000X-ESDS1000X-U_UserManual_UM0101E-E05A.pdf (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2020/11/SDS1000X-ESDS1000X-U_UserManual_UM0101E-E05A.pdf)
However there is a little trap for the inattentive in that once Levels have been set and then Limit Range (time between levels) the trigger Levels cannot be adjusted without starting from scratch again.
So how to pick a valid Limit Range.....with Cursors or just eyeballing the graticules of course and then all works as expected while the limit range time is met between the Levels.
OK, I did this, and here are the results.
The attached screenshots show the captured waveform in full. One with the mask, and one without.
Also, I've attached the CSV of the data from -1.5ms to 0ms (I had to use 7zip to archive it because zip didn't compress it enough). My analysis of it shows that the minimum voltage seen in that interval is seen at -27 ns, with a value of 4.33V.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=1124686;image)
Is it perfectly just this screen shot what is also this .CSV.
There can not see exactly what was all important settings just when this happen.
Least I can say this is not trigged from this signal data if your previously told trigger slope etc settings are used and last 1.5ms data before trig time position is what is in CSV.
But for further analyze you need tell exactly what setup was for this screen shot with this CSV. Sad there is not CSV from this part where can assume trigger need happen in just this "sweep".
Btw, are you hunting some nanosecond things from this signal or why you use full BW.
Sidenote. Normal default trigger hysteresis, what is fully hidden from user, is roughly 0.3 div.
When user select [noise reject on] no where is displayed inform to user what it do and many may think it is some kind of freq filter. Its (main) function is make this hysteresis "window" more wide. With noise reject on it is roughly 0.8div. And it need also note this hysteresis position depends direction. If we are going up this hysteresis is before aka under threshold level and if we are going down hysteresis is before aka over thresold level and this is also in slope trigger and for both thresholds. So if user example turn noise reject on and he loose trigger it need also check if this invisible Mr.Hysteresis have arrived to room making his magic...
It is good to know but not reason in this case.
More Slope trigger tests....some not triggering due to settings used.
Screenshots should speak for themselves.
No look at them again, <=, >= and both rising and falling for each.More Slope trigger tests....some not triggering due to settings used.
Screenshots should speak for themselves.
In each test you're performing, you're using a "<=" type of time definition, meaning the first transition point can occur any time between the defined time and zero before the second transition point.
No look at them again, <=, >= and both rising and falling for each.More Slope trigger tests....some not triggering due to settings used.
Screenshots should speak for themselves.
In each test you're performing, you're using a "<=" type of time definition, meaning the first transition point can occur any time between the defined time and zero before the second transition point.
Haven't tried [-- . --] yet..........and maybe not tonight as it's getting late and needing beauty sleep ! :bullshit:
In the next 24hrs I promise. ;)
Least I can say this is not trigged from this signal data if your previously told trigger slope etc settings are used and last 1.5ms data before trig time position is what is in CSV.
This signal that you see in the screenshot *did* cause the trigger as I defined it above to fire. That's the point. I see no reason it should have, but it did anyway.
It is explained bit more but unfortunately "scrambled by natural enigma". Our "enigma" is our Finnish language what is said is second difficult after Chinese in world.
In some images there is some english/finglish explanations. But more deep text explanations just with Finnish.
https://siglent.fi/oskilloskooppi-tietoa-sds1004x-e--wfm-speed.html
Least I can say this is not trigged from this signal data if your previously told trigger slope etc settings are used and last 1.5ms data before trig time position is what is in CSV.
This signal that you see in the screenshot *did* cause the trigger as I defined it above to fire. That's the point. I see no reason it should have, but it did anyway.
No.
Perhaps some language barrier.
What I mean.
There in .CSV can not find anything what can explain this trig in this place. Btw how you know it is trigged. have you seen trig out signal just for this. So we do not even know if it is trigged or captured without true trig due to example some rare well hidden bug what now pop up in just with all your settings.
Have you tried same with analog side BW reject.
Have you tried it with more wide slope steep. Example 1ms / 2ms. Do it change situation.
Have you tried using Trigger noise reject ON. (more wide hysteresis).
Have you tried using 1x probe (now with 10x probe your real input is 50mV/div) .... oh but you have 4V DC offset...
When it do wrong looks like trig, do it happen always in same time position related to signal, same place in this slow falling edge?
So this signal data, so what can see in this CSV, can not be source for this trig if settings are all as told and if this works as I think it is designed and done.
Also this language barrier make me wonderin this your explabnation about slope trig timing.
Have you tried same with analog side BW reject.
Have you tried it with more wide slope steep. Example 1ms / 2ms. Do it change situation.I altered the time range to be 0.5ms to 1.5ms, and kept the voltage thresholds the same. It made no difference -- the problem reproduced easily.
Have you tried same with analog side BW reject.
So far this issue has *not* reproduced with the 20MHz bandwidth limiter enabled on the probe. Looks to me like whatever's causing this, it's very high frequency noise that somehow doesn't appear in the capture.
I'll try some of the other things next.
This is very strange if it do not appear in capture or captured raw ADC data. It must be there, infinitely. Without it, it do not trig. But all is possible. Also some bug in FW what cause this reason is hiding.
Do you have FULL .CSV or Binary data.
Screen shot png and paired with this full saved sample data. Example 3 set of these pairs so that these pairs are somehow marked so that can not mix and with perfectly explained trigger setting and scope other settings (norm/Auto, possible trigger coupling filters and, trigger setup exactly and so on. (display dots/interpolatin line or sinc do not affect any thing, they are post processed.)
Because if there is really no raw ADC data what explain wrong/failed trig, it need solve what make it. These can bit look and forward to Siglent for further analysis. It is not lottery machine and it do not have its own mind what some times do irrationally something like human..
Quote from: rf-loop
Have you tried same with analog side BW reject.
Limiting the bandwidth helps. I'm running a test now to see if the issue reproduces at all with a 20 MHz bandwidth limit on the input. But limiting the bandwidth shouldn't be necessary. What if you're trying to find high-frequency noise in the signal? The point here is that if noise causes the trigger to fire and the trigger mechanism exclusively uses ADC output, that noise should be present in the capture! But it wasn't, and isn't.
This is very strange if it do not appear in capture or captured raw ADC data. It must be there, infinitely. Without it, it do not trig. But all is possible. Also some bug in FW what cause this reason is hiding.
Do you have FULL .CSV or Binary data.
Yes. Well, I *had* it but had to reboot my computer, and didn't have them stored in a location that would survive the reboot. But seeing how I can reproduce this essentially at will, getting the data isn't a problem at all.QuoteScreen shot png and paired with this full saved sample data. Example 3 set of these pairs so that these pairs are somehow marked so that can not mix and with perfectly explained trigger setting and scope other settings (norm/Auto, possible trigger coupling filters and, trigger setup exactly and so on. (display dots/interpolatin line or sinc do not affect any thing, they are post processed.)
Sinc versus dots versus linear doesn't affect triggering??
OK, that raises a question: does the triggering mechanism *always* use sinc? Or straight point-to-point? Or something else? It has to somehow detect that a transition has happened between acquired points, clearly, so it has to be doing some kind of interpolation for that, no?QuoteBecause if there is really no raw ADC data what explain wrong/failed trig, it need solve what make it. These can bit look and forward to Siglent for further analysis. It is not lottery machine and it do not have its own mind what some times do irrationally something like human..
Agreed. OK, so the question then is: how do you want me to upload the data? To where? The resulting 7-zip archive of 14Mpoints of CSV data is far too large for uploads to this forum.
It need think. Also it need take account that what if... and so on.. Do you have binary data also from same acquisition what you have CSV and I do not mean small part of acq. but of course every byte from start to end.
How big your zips are for both separately.
It need think. Also it need take account that what if... and so on.. Do you have binary data also from same acquisition what you have CSV and I do not mean small part of acq. but of course every byte from start to end.
How big your zips are for both separately.
Well, "zip" and "7-zip" are actually two different things. "7-zip" does a *much* better job of compressing. While "zip" of the 14Mpoint CSV gets me a 30 megabyte zip file, "7-zip" gets me a roughly 9 megabyte "7z" file. Both are archive formats that can store multiple files within the archive, so they're both good for the same thing. You can get "7-zip" from https://www.7-zip.org (https://www.7-zip.org).
I don't know how much space an archive containing the binary format file will take. I'll let you know.
Right now I'm running the test with the trigger bandwidth limiter enabled, and it hasn't reproduced yet (it's been running for about 30 minutes so far, with about 15K frames analyzed -- I'm using the mask function to detect a violation). I'll let that run a bit longer before reverting back to full bandwidth on everything for the purpose of gathering the data.
The real question is where I should upload the resulting (rather large) archive files to. Any suggestions?
It is explained bit more but unfortunately "scrambled by natural enigma". Our "enigma" is our Finnish language what is said is second difficult after Chinese in world.
In some images there is some english/finglish explanations. But more deep text explanations just with Finnish.
https://siglent.fi/oskilloskooppi-tietoa-sds1004x-e--wfm-speed.html
I am slowly reading through this with help from Google translate. It's very helpful, thank you for writing it!
PS: there is a typo in the second (all yellow) table shown in Figure 1, in the line with t/div= 1ms. Column 6 contains 1G sa/s. It should read 1M sa/s.
I know this all may be bit frustrating. If I have here now this scope I can try repeat this error using noises etc... but I do not have.
In this image there is 1GSa/s 1ms/div 14M memory.
There was some other image where was 500MSa/s and 2ms/div
Both show this error.
But I have not seen any test (or my far over best before date eyes have not hit) test where is native 500MSa/s sampling speed.
In this 2ms 500MSa image it is decimated samplerate.
So, can you do also test just like this image:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=1124846;image)
But change one thing. Turn just this ADC from interleaved mode to non interleaved mode so it have real 500MSa/s.
This you can do more easy than easy.
Keep 1ms and this channel. Turn Ch1 ON. Now you see samplerate is 500MSa/s now ADC is not inteerleaved mode but normal 2 channel 500MSa mode.
As told some previous image also have 500MSa/s but is is decimated from 1GSa interleaved sampling.
It may have some difference depending how trigger engine listen these 4 x 250MHz 8 bit bus from ADC or 2 x 250MHz bus in non interleaved mode...
If it give real big difference.. it is very extremely important finding, together with this previous finding about BW reject (and case is that before BW reject in ADC data can not see any reason for wrong trig. )
Imho, both are important finding, it this change affect or if not. These can imagine are like road crosses and how to go forward, right or left or straight.
Are we absolutely sure the trigger voltages are converted to adc values, and not let's say analog comparators? The strange thing is that when using scpi those voltages are attributes of each channel. In a complete digital situation, it would be more logical for them to be attributes of the trigger.Have you tried same with analog side BW reject.
So far this issue has *not* reproduced with the 20MHz bandwidth limiter enabled on the probe. Looks to me like whatever's causing this, it's very high frequency noise that somehow doesn't appear in the capture.
I'll try some of the other things next.
This is very strange if it do not appear in capture or captured raw ADC data. It must be there, infinitely. Without it, it do not trig. But all is possible. Also some bug in FW what cause this reason is hiding.
Do you have FULL .CSV or Binary data. Screen shot png and paired with this full saved sample data. Example 3 set of these pairs so that these pairs are somehow marked so that can not mix and with perfectly explained trigger setting and scope other settings (norm/Auto, possible trigger coupling filters and, trigger setup exactly and so on. (display dots/interpolatin line or sinc do not affect any thing, they are post processed.)
Because if there is really no raw ADC data what explain wrong/failed trig, it need solve what make it. These can bit look and forward to Siglent for further analysis. It is not lottery machine and it do not have its own mind what some times do irrationally something like human..
Are we absolutely sure the trigger voltages are converted to adc values, and not let's say analog comparators? The strange thing is that when using scpi those voltages are attributes of each channel. In a complete digital situation, it would be more logical for them to be attributes of the trigger.Have you tried same with analog side BW reject.
So far this issue has *not* reproduced with the 20MHz bandwidth limiter enabled on the probe. Looks to me like whatever's causing this, it's very high frequency noise that somehow doesn't appear in the capture.
I'll try some of the other things next.
This is very strange if it do not appear in capture or captured raw ADC data. It must be there, infinitely. Without it, it do not trig. But all is possible. Also some bug in FW what cause this reason is hiding.
Do you have FULL .CSV or Binary data. Screen shot png and paired with this full saved sample data. Example 3 set of these pairs so that these pairs are somehow marked so that can not mix and with perfectly explained trigger setting and scope other settings (norm/Auto, possible trigger coupling filters and, trigger setup exactly and so on. (display dots/interpolatin line or sinc do not affect any thing, they are post processed.)
Because if there is really no raw ADC data what explain wrong/failed trig, it need solve what make it. These can bit look and forward to Siglent for further analysis. It is not lottery machine and it do not have its own mind what some times do irrationally something like human..
It could explain the behavior if they where analog... :-//
Truth or fact is not about how many times one says something.. :o
I don't say its likely, but seeing the scope's behavior..
Also there could be benefits to analog triggers, for example when using slow "time div's", but very fast signals. At the moment I'm experimenting with that, to see how the scope responds.
Its stil running but it managed to capture a pulse of 32 ns each 700s using only 10 Samples/s (100 s/div thus 23 min/screen). That's amazing if it where only digital...
Maybe it sampling faster under water than it says?
If thats true than we have another possible explanation..(I see that the faulty trigger examples are at max sample rate, so probably not)
Truth or fact is not about how many times one says something.. :o
I don't say its likely, but seeing the scope's behavior..
Also there could be benefits to analog triggers, for example when using slow "time div's", but very fast signals. At the moment I'm experimenting with that, to see how the scope responds.
Its stil running but it managed to capture a pulse of 32 ns each 700s using only 10 Samples/s (100 s/div thus 23 min/screen). That's amazing if it where only digital...
Maybe it sampling faster under water than it says?
If thats true than we have another possible explanation..(I see that the faulty trigger examples are at max sample rate, so probably not)
On a slow time base it is very possible to have it trigger on a pulse (2.5V, 32 nS) without seeing it happen on screen. Using a very simple edge trigger.
It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.
It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.
I just figured that one out by myself as well :DOn a slow time base it is very possible to have it trigger on a pulse (2.5V, 32 nS) without seeing it happen on screen. Using a very simple edge trigger.That is why there exists peak detect mode. It will show those peaks..
It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.
I just figured that one out by myself as well :DOn a slow time base it is very possible to have it trigger on a pulse (2.5V, 32 nS) without seeing it happen on screen. Using a very simple edge trigger.That is why there exists peak detect mode. It will show those peaks..
It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.
Just before I thought it was only a way of displaying underlying data. Now I know why the aquisition needs to be redone.
Now I wonder, does it need twice the memory..? Will look it up, because it is not relevant to the issue.
B.t.w. I know I'm lacking technical knowledge regarding this scope, I see myself more like a user. But the question is how much knowledge will be needed to pinpoint the issue some more. I think experiments are propably more important. I'm also not yet fully engaged in this issue (yet), but I don't dislike to finding "thruth" with very little information. For instance I know now why going on a "slower sampling speed" will not induce comparable behavior. Which might together with the non analog trigger already be enough technical info.
Okay so no negative peaks, like minimals..
About the facts. I might have skipped the digital trigger (vs analog) trigger post.. Got some brain damage, so reading and processing information is a bit impaired.
So my remark:
Truth or fact is not about how many times one says something.. :o
Was more a general remark, not a disbelief in what was said (which I didn't read).
But either way: in this situation that fact should be traced to its roots. If rf-loop is that root of knowledge than :-+.
There's more to say but I'll leave it like this.
A quick response on this is still required. While I was wondering and creating screen shots, my guess was already confirmed. It might than seem stubborn to then still call it probable, but the posts just crossed each other.It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.
How useful is this talking and wondering if you do not believe or listen anything what is said about it.
rf-loops analysis and writeup on the SDS1104X-E is what motivated me to purchase it. :-+Yes, very wise and experienced old EE and communicates exceptionally well considering his mother tongue is Finnish not English. :o
He shows the real world data for the scope and his reports are 1000x better than the actual Siglent official documentation IMO.
A quick response on this is still required. While I was wondering and creating screen shots, my guess was already confirmed. It might than seem stubborn to then still call it probable, but the posts just crossed each other.It probably doesn't prove much, because it is propably sampling faster under water.
How useful is this talking and wondering if you do not believe or listen anything what is said about it.
It is explained bit more but unfortunately "scrambled by natural enigma". Our "enigma" is our Finnish language what is said is second difficult after Chinese in world.
In some images there is some english/finglish explanations. But more deep text explanations just with Finnish.
https://siglent.fi/oskilloskooppi-tietoa-sds1004x-e--wfm-speed.html
I am slowly reading through this with help from Google translate. It's very helpful, thank you for writing it!
PS: there is a typo in the second (all yellow) table shown in Figure 1, in the line with t/div= 1ms. Column 6 contains 1G sa/s. It should read 1M sa/s.
Typing mistake corrected, thank you.
This post crossed the above one... in which my guess is already confirmed
Knowing HendriXML's advanced SCPI use I'd say he's written a little script.This post crossed the above one... in which my guess is already confirmed
In your post you included a screen dump ("settings.png") showing the scope settings? If there is a simple way to produce this? Or did you do it by hand? If there's a simple way to make such a dump, please tell me how, it will be useful the next time I want to ask about behaviour which I don't understand.
It is explained bit more but unfortunately "scrambled by natural enigma". Our "enigma" is our Finnish language what is said is second difficult after Chinese in world.
In some images there is some english/finglish explanations. But more deep text explanations just with Finnish.
https://siglent.fi/oskilloskooppi-tietoa-sds1004x-e--wfm-speed.html
I am slowly reading through this with help from Google translate. It's very helpful, thank you for writing it!
PS: there is a typo in the second (all yellow) table shown in Figure 1, in the line with t/div= 1ms. Column 6 contains 1G sa/s. It should read 1M sa/s.
Typing mistake corrected, thank you.
Something that would be very useful for me would be a block diagram of the scope. This would help me to construct a good internal model for what it's doing. Just a page or two back you posted a nice block diagram showing the input front end, the DAC for offsets, the ADC feeding the triggering system, but then it gets less precise. Is there a more complete block diagram that shows the acquisition/history/sequence/frame system in some detail?
A few questions regarding the sampling/trigger system: is the ADC always running at 1Gs/sec then decimating afterwards? Is the decimation done before or after the triggering system? When decimating can the scope keep/store more than 8 bits in memory? For example when the scope is acquiring data at 4Msa/a (decimation by factor of 256) in principle one could add the 256 8-bit values to get 16 bit resolution.
is the ADC always running at 1Gs/sec then decimating afterwards?
Its something a script that I made does. It syncs inifile settings using scpi commands. Essentially parameters have actual / requested values. Requested values are read from ini settings (as shown). Actual values are read from the scope. If requested value is different then actual it is synced with the scope. (Checking if its different makes it a lot faster) Also the requested value (or in absence of it the actual value) is written as an ini setting. So at the end the output contains the most important settings of the scope. This output is easy to read, but can also be used to restore the scopes settings the next time.This post crossed the above one... in which my guess is already confirmed
In your post you included a screen dump ("settings.png") showing the scope settings? If there is a simple way to produce this? Or did you do it by hand? If there's a simple way to make such a dump, please tell me how, it will be useful the next time I want to ask about behaviour which I don't understand.
kevin@ubuntu:/tmp$ 7z l /tmp/FULLBW-1GS.7z
7-Zip [64] 16.02 : Copyright (c) 1999-2016 Igor Pavlov : 2016-05-21
p7zip Version 16.02 (locale=en_US.UTF-8,Utf16=on,HugeFiles=on,64 bits,8 CPUs Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v2 @ 2.80GHz (306E4),ASM,AES-NI)
Scanning the drive for archives:
1 file, 7057584 bytes (6893 KiB)
Listing archive: /tmp/FULLBW-1GS.7z
--
Path = /tmp/FULLBW-1GS.7z
Type = 7z
Physical Size = 7057584
Headers Size = 322
Method = LZMA2:24
Solid = +
Blocks = 1
Date Time Attr Size Compressed Name
------------------- ----- ------------ ------------ ------------------------
2020-12-09 19:35:30 D.... 0 0 FULLBW-1GS
1979-12-31 18:00:00 ....A 14002048 7057262 FULLBW-1GS/Binnary.bin
1979-12-31 18:00:00 ....A 392000339 FULLBW-1GS/CSV.csv
2020-12-09 19:35:30 ....A 1155 FULLBW-1GS/README.txt
2020-12-09 19:30:44 ....A 1099 FULLBW-1GS/README.txt~
1979-12-31 18:00:00 ....A 16422 FULLBW-1GS/SDS00001.png
1979-12-31 18:00:00 ....A 19629 FULLBW-1GS/SDS00002.png
1979-12-31 18:00:00 ....A 79986 FULLBW-1GS/Setup.xml
------------------- ----- ------------ ------------ ------------------------
2020-12-09 19:35:30 406120678 7057262 7 files, 1 folders
Simply. Signal what is available from acquistion memory do not contain any single thing what explain that this waveform is "trigged" and displayed.
-------
Still one question even you have once answered this but I hope more exactly.
Have you looked more long time that if you turn 20MHz BW filter on then it never do this in this test setup or is it so that it do but much more rarely. If it totally stop this fail it is one important finding.
More and more I feel this is perhaps some kind of bug. But BW on/off may lead to 2 different main chain of reasoning if it totally stop this failure exist or if it just make it only more rare. If it only make it small amount more rare then it is nearly nonsense.
How it is?
Your screenshot seems to hide the spike :-//
Edit..
It's very faint.. Trap for young players... :o
It's always hard to find the rational of a bug. :D
I think it is a bug, but probably limited to trigger location and not a misfire.
From a gut feeling I don't think the logic which causes the bug is acting on raw / primary data.
I guess it is preprocessed and handling on thing like crossings and slopes and times between them and other stuff. Resuse of some preprocessing between trigger types might be the reason. Maybe this preprocess outputs stuff which was not expected by the programmer. While only handling rawdata this specific triggertype seems not to hard to get right. But maybe the functional requirements are more complex than I think. For instance I don't understand the need for some hysteresis yet.
Maybe I'll put your (noisy) wave in my awg and see if that replicates the bug. With an awg more manipulations can be done, thus more experiments / hour :-+
It's sad that my awg only handles 16k of samples. But putting min/max voltages after each other should give a comparable wave.
Also simpler waves can be tried.
In my thinking a trigger is what stops the continuous capture of samples. At that moment there's pretrigger data. ...
A SDG1032
Hardware wise it can act on raw data from the ADC, but I mean software wise there can be separated pieces of logic. Programmers like to create "engines", but these may hide or introduce stuff.. mostly it is going from lower level decision making to higher level decision-making.
In my thinking a trigger is what stops the continuous capture of samples. At that moment there's pretrigger data. Post trigger data need some more samples.
(It doesn't need to be 50%/50%. The horizontal position knot can make it more or less.
In that sense it seems not buggy. However showing the location and the amount of pre/post trigger data is faulty. Hence giving a wrong impression of what actually triggered it.
This is just guessing, someone has to dive into the software to get the "rational" behind the bug. But by experimenting more can be known about it.
That, too, is possible. But if I had to speculate as to the cause of the issue, I'd say that it's happening as a result of the trigger mechanism failing to reset the initial condition latch (which, in this case, is the rising edge requirement through 3.5V at t between -1.5ms and 0.5ms), and firing again after it had already fired on the earlier section of the waveform.
Hmm...that suggests the possibility of a test. Is there anything that indicates, down to the picosecond, when the trigger fired? I ask because I can set the memory depth to 1.4Mpoints, and that would give me 10 segments worth of captures. If the segment data includes the relative time at which the trigger fired, then we can look at the time of the incorrect capture segment relative to the time of the immediately prior segment. If the difference is less than one waveform period then we'll know for sure that the issue is with the initial condition latch not being reset.
Hmm...looks like if you enable the list in the segment history, it'll show you the time of the segment. It doesn't take you all the way down to the picosecond, but it may be good enough for our purposes here. I've got a test running now with that setup, but it hasn't reproduced yet. Should be interesting to see what happens.
That got you triggered :oIn my thinking a trigger is what stops the continuous capture of samples. At that moment there's pretrigger data. ...
Excuse me but ... What :o
Turns out that at 1ms/div, the standard acquisition rate of a 60Hz signal is just too slow to make it clear whether or not the trigger is firing in that way, with acquisitions happening somewhere between 50ms and 66ms per frame. In order to ensure consistent acquisition at 16ms per frame (i.e., at the period of the signal itself), I had to drop to 500us per division and 140k points per frame. With that setup, I get a consistent 16ms per frame even with the mask test enabled, and I'm now running that test. Should be interesting to see what comes of it.
Have you looked more long time that if you turn 20MHz BW filter on then it never do this in this test setup or is it so that it do but much more rarely. If it totally stop this fail it is one important finding.
It has been said/confirmed that the trigger system always runs at max speed.Have you looked more long time that if you turn 20MHz BW filter on then it never do this in this test setup or is it so that it do but much more rarely. If it totally stop this fail it is one important finding.
I still haven't run this test for a massively long duration. If you can give me an idea of how long I should run a 20MHz bandwidth filter test, I'll be happy to do it. Otherwise I'll presume that running it for, say, 12 hours, is sufficient.
I have one question about the acquisition system. When I reduce the memory per capture, it drops the sample rate. That's to be expected: it's having to spread the same amount of time over a smaller number of points with respect to what gets saved. My question is this: does the ADC actually still run at a full 1GS/s for the triggering mechanism, and then the captured points are decimated to fit into the smaller number of sample points in the buffer? Or is the ADC actually run at the stated sample rate and, thus, that sample rate is also what the triggering mechanism sees?
It matters, *a lot*. If the sample rate really is reduced for the triggering mechanism then that could easily cause the issue to disappear if it's somehow time-dependent.
It has been said/confirmed that the trigger system always runs at max speed.
It has been said/confirmed that the trigger system always runs at max speed.
Ah, yes, so it has, and not too long ago at that: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg3360130/?topicseen#msg3360130 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg3360130/?topicseen#msg3360130)
OK, so that raises the obvious question: should there be a difference in the ease of reproducing the issue on the basis of the capture size? One would think not, given the above.
It is explained bit more but unfortunately "scrambled by natural enigma". Our "enigma" is our Finnish language what is said is second difficult after Chinese in world.
In some images there is some english/finglish explanations. But more deep text explanations just with Finnish.
https://siglent.fi/oskilloskooppi-tietoa-sds1004x-e--wfm-speed.html
I am slowly reading through this with help from Google translate. It's very helpful, thank you for writing it!
PS: there is a typo in the second (all yellow) table shown in Figure 1, in the line with t/div= 1ms. Column 6 contains 1G sa/s. It should read 1M sa/s.
Typing mistake corrected, thank you.
Something that would be very useful for me would be a block diagram of the scope. This would help me to construct a good internal model for what it's doing. Just a page or two back you posted a nice block diagram showing the input front end, the DAC for offsets, the ADC feeding the triggering system, but then it gets less precise. Is there a more complete block diagram that shows the acquisition/history/sequence/frame system in some detail?
There is not this like of functional "block diagram" what also somehow give imagination what user then see when he is using scope.
Also I miss this kind of block diagram not for me but for perhaps for user guidance and counselling.
What I have is just my own made some kind of teaching "flip chart" material in mind what need also explanations by talking when show these images... but they are as they are now. There is some what give rough imagine about sequence, history and so on but they only give very rough basic fuzzy imagine what is going on there.
@rf-loop, can you suggest any other tests I should perform aside from the 20MHz bandwidth test? I'm about to set that one up and leave it running overnight.
This is something I've kept in mind as well.OK, so that raises the obvious question: should there be a difference in the ease of reproducing the issue on the basis of the capture size? One would think not, given the above.
And the answer is: there *is* a difference in the ease of reproducing on the basis of the capture size. I am able to reproduce this most easily at 14M points and reasonably easily at 1.4M points. It is nearly impossible to reproduce at 140k points (I reproduced it only once with that setting), and seems utterly impossible to reproduce at 14k points.
How do I know? Because when I switch from 140k points to 1.4M or 14M points, I've had the issue reproduce right then and there, more than once. Nothing of the sort has ever happened going the other direction.
Additionally, the mask display will show the number of frames it saw before failure, and that number grows significantly as the sample size decreases.
This has me scratching my head about what's going on here. Unless the triggering system is using the number of sample points in some way, I can't explain how the number of sample points could possibly affect the probability of reproduction. But it does.
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?
I've been wondering the same thing. :popcorn:
I have done it right after purchasing bc this non-detent encoder was driving me nuts - pretty weird design decision given that they have detented ones for vertical/horizontal anyway.
In fact, I've even taken the photos to dump here, but I'm a lazy arse so that never happened. :-[
I can't remember the P/N of the original non-detented one, but it turned out to be some sort of Chinese unobtanium. After searching a bit through what ALPS/Bourns/Omron offer, the closest I was able to find dimension-wise was Bourns PEC12R-4220F-S0024.
To my taste it has a bit too much detent force, otherwise it has been working absolutely fine for the last half year.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
UPD:
I still have the original part, it has no P/N, but LJV embossed on it.
Thank you, that was the information, I was looking for!
I have done such a mod to my 2 other scopes and the only regret was, not doing it in the fist place.
Chris
I tried to fetch faillures using 1993 segments, but then they dont' come up. Important info as well..
I will stop experimenting for now and sit on my thinking stone...
Just try to get evidence with this kind of other settings that BW On reject or stop wrong time captures.
Also please test overall can you find any effect using Trigger Noise Reject ON. I think previously you tried an no effect. But now you have more experiment with this fail so it is god to ask again.
That said, it looks like HendriXML has managed to reproduce the issue using an AWG signal, and that's really excellent, because it means we can give Siglent a fairly foolproof way to reproduce the issue themselves and, thus, track it down and fix it.My guess would be that they already know of it.
The following could also be observed:
Without using pass/fail masks, but with infinite persistence failures can also be seen. But the time between waves can be much shorter (like 30 ms). The reason for this might be that managing masks is more cpu intensive.
Also: the valid trigger condition and the invalid one don't need to be both on screen simultaneously.
The issue *does* reproduce with trigger noise rejection enabled, but it takes quite a bit longer. In this case, it took 45452 mask tests before it reproduced, with an average trigger rate of 24 Hz or less:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=1130538;image)
Here's the data for it (a 7-zip archive with the CSV, the binary, the setup XML, and the above screenshot): https://app.box.com/s/5zmf6xr4t8xypjjmqmw46oj574r6sab3 (https://app.box.com/s/5zmf6xr4t8xypjjmqmw46oj574r6sab3)
With respect to theories like interrupt handling and such, the plain fact here is that the amount of time between events is orders of magnitude longer than what the triggering system is capable of handling. We're talking about a 60 Hz waveform here! If there's a problem with the CPU getting around to handling the trigger conditions fast enough with a 60 Hz waveform, then we'd have every reason to believe that the trigger system would simply fall over with MHz-frequency waveforms. No, I don't think that's likely at all. And that's especially true since this issue reproduces even with trigger noise rejection enabled.
Instead, I'm pretty sure what we're up against here is either a race condition or a failure to properly and consistently impose the trigger conditions. But only the guys at Siglent can truly say.
I'm now in the process of running the test with the 20MHz bandwidth filter enabled on the channel. I'll give it at least 12 hours to reproduce.
With respect to theories like interrupt handling and such, the plain fact here is that the amount of time between events is orders of magnitude longer than what the triggering system is capable of handling. We're talking about a 60 Hz waveform here! If there's a problem with the CPU getting around to handling the trigger conditions fast enough with a 60 Hz waveform, then we'd have every reason to believe that the trigger system would simply fall over with MHz-frequency waveforms. No, I don't think that's likely at all. And that's especially true since this issue reproduces even with trigger noise rejection enabled.We could create a signal as the one I sketched. Which may give an insight what happens when times are less. (It should not be about period, but time between high passes)
What about some holdoff time.. ensured by the FPGA?
I think the basis of the problem is what I have described. That it doesn't happen on other signals might be due to (unknown) methods to prevent this from normally happening (stuff like hysteresis and ..).
Just a comment, to me that time interval looks awfully close to limit..
I'm not sure signal climbed those two voltages in 1,2-1,4 ms, it could be less than 1,2ms..
Maybe vary that a bit to find out if that influences something to try to find more clues....
Also I find it confusing that L1 is higher than L2 (maybe better naming would be UL-upper limit and LL-lower limit)
Just a comment, to me that time interval looks awfully close to limit..
I'm not sure signal climbed those two voltages in 1,2-1,4 ms, it could be less than 1,2ms..
Maybe vary that a bit to find out if that influences something to try to find more clues....
Also I find it confusing that L1 is higher than L2 (maybe better naming would be UL-upper limit and LL-lower limit)
Have you read everything said in « Reply #1772 on: December 07, 2020, 07:34:46 am » and after it all what handle this trigger engine bug.
Just a comment, to me that time interval looks awfully close to limit..
I'm not sure signal climbed those two voltages in 1,2-1,4 ms, it could be less than 1,2ms..
Maybe vary that a bit to find out if that influences something to try to find more clues....
Also I find it confusing that L1 is higher than L2 (maybe better naming would be UL-upper limit and LL-lower limit)
Have you read everything said in « Reply #1772 on: December 07, 2020, 07:34:46 am » and after it all what handle this trigger engine bug.
No. I'm afraid I didn't. I just made a comment to this image...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=1124744;image)
I do understand there is a problem, I'm just saying that playing with time limits might reveal something else.
L1 and L2 comment is my comment to Siglent's choice in U/I naming.
13 hours and 480000 mask test frames later, the issue still hasn't reproduced with the 20 MHz bandwidth limiter enabled on the channel. I'll be happy to keep it going for another 12 hours, but it's certainly looking like the 20MHz bandwidth limiter eliminates the issue in my environment. But that's in my environment. It may be that noise at a lower frequency than 20 MHz would just as easily trigger the bug. On that, I can't say. But it would be an interesting test for HendriXML to perform with his setup, seeing how he's able to reproduce the issue more or less at will with an artificially-generated signal.
Sorry for the question. Today is arrived this little baby (1104x-e), and i'm trying to zoom at maximum possible the second rising edge after the trigger of a 1khz signal (jitter analysis). But seem that there is a limit how far the screen can be from the trigger point, limit at 500us. I'm doing something wrong, or there is a better way to do it? Thanks!
Tautech and/or rf-loop, why isn't trigger holdoff available for all trigger types? That seems to be something that should be a general property of the triggering system itself, rather than being something that is type-specific, no? After all, it's just an artificial delay that is introduced prior to the trigger being re-armed.Artificial yes and a necessary tool when dealing with non-repetitive waveforms where you need to have full control of trigger rearming so to be able to reliably trigger on your POI.
The nature of how the Siglent does captures is that what you see on the screen is the entire capture. So what you may want to do is to set your timebase such that at least two rising edges are visible, and then zoom in on the second one after you stop the scope. Or you can use zoom mode while the scope is running (see below).Thanks! I've centered the second rising edge, zoomed and worked like a charm!
That said, you can actually set the trigger point location to be outside of the capture area. If you rotate the horizontal position knob counterclockwise, you'll be positioning the trigger point earlier in the capture, and you can actually position it to well before the point where the screen begins. So that would make it possible for you to see the second rising edge while triggering on the first rising edge. Note that this would work best when the trigger is set up such that it would trigger on the first rising edge but not the second one, something that you can arrange using the holdoff feature of the edge trigger.
Also, the scope has a "zoom mode". Press the horizontal scale button and it'll switch to zoom mode. This makes it possible for you to capture both rising edges and zoom in on the second one while the scope is running.
Tautech and/or rf-loop, why isn't trigger holdoff available for all trigger types? That seems to be something that should be a general property of the triggering system itself, rather than being something that is type-specific, no? After all, it's just an artificial delay that is introduced prior to the trigger being re-armed.Artificial yes and a necessary tool when dealing with non-repetitive waveforms where you need to have full control of trigger rearming so to be able to reliably trigger on your POI.
Holdoff is just not needed on all trigger types however without detailed analysis of each trigger type they may have their own specific holdoff value.
Arguably in the modern DSO the trigger suite is the most complex feature and certainly the feature that takes the most mastering when we depart from just simple edge triggering.
Say for example we need trigger on one bit and as that bit is just one trigger parameter that's user adjustable within that trigger type would be a good example of when trigger holdoff is not required otherwise I broadly agree the user must have the control and not the instrument.Tautech and/or rf-loop, why isn't trigger holdoff available for all trigger types? That seems to be something that should be a general property of the triggering system itself, rather than being something that is type-specific, no? After all, it's just an artificial delay that is introduced prior to the trigger being re-armed.Artificial yes and a necessary tool when dealing with non-repetitive waveforms where you need to have full control of trigger rearming so to be able to reliably trigger on your POI.
Holdoff is just not needed on all trigger types however without detailed analysis of each trigger type they may have their own specific holdoff value.
Arguably in the modern DSO the trigger suite is the most complex feature and certainly the feature that takes the most mastering when we depart from just simple edge triggering.
I'm not sure I buy this as an explanation. The trigger conditions, i.e. when it fires, are obviously highly dependent on the trigger type and involve multiple considerations. But that is completely separate from an additional delay that can be imposed. The additional delay is what I'm talking about here, and I see no reason whatsoever that it can't be imposed in all trigger types. After all, all it says is "the trigger shall not fire again until after the specified delay time has passed".
Who's to say whether a delay is needed or not? The answer to that is simple: the user. And only the user. The manufacturer is in no position to make any such claim, because the manufacturer simply cannot know the entirety of circumstances in which the trigger will be used.
Thanks! I've centered the second rising edge, zoomed and worked like a charm!
One more little question: there isn't also a vertical zoom?trying to increase the vertical gain obviously i get a distorted wave due to clipping of the input opamps...
Say for example we need trigger on one bit and as that bit is just one trigger parameter that's user adjustable within that trigger type would be a good example of when trigger holdoff is not required otherwise I broadly agree the user must have the control and not the instrument.
Got another question.IDK for dedicated Roll mode however if max mem depth is what you need in Roll mode you're best to use Auto Roll mode where the full 14 Mpts is available.
I noticed that in roll mode, the sample memory is cut by a factor of 10. Why is that? A factor of 10 seems excessive. What's the rest of the memory being used for? Certainly not history -- that's disabled in roll mode.
Got another question.IDK for dedicated Roll mode however if max mem depth is what you need in Roll mode you're best to use Auto Roll mode where the full 14 Mpts is available.
I noticed that in roll mode, the sample memory is cut by a factor of 10. Why is that? A factor of 10 seems excessive. What's the rest of the memory being used for? Certainly not history -- that's disabled in roll mode.
You'll get clipping if you increase the vertical gain while the scope is operating, but when the scope is stopped, the vertical zoom just acts as a standard zoom. So try stopping the scope first and then zoom in using the vertical scale knob.Thanks! So i suppose that there isn't a way to zoom with the scope running...
The scope converter only has so much resolution, however, so what you really want to do is to set the vertical settings so that the waveform fills as much of the screen as you can manage. This will ensure that the opamps remain unsaturated while also ensuring that you have maximum use of the ADC resolution. You can then zoom in from there with the scope stopped. There may be limitations in terms of what you can do with respect to zooming in like that, but from what I've seen, you'll easily be able to zoom in vertically to the point where you can make out the individual value transitions within the number of bits per sample recorded.
Got another question.
I noticed that in roll mode, the sample memory is cut by a factor of 10. Why is that? A factor of 10 seems excessive. What's the rest of the memory being used for? Certainly not history -- that's disabled in roll mode.
I see no mention of auto roll mode anywhere in the manual, nor any mention of a setting that would control that. How does one enter it? Merely increasing the time/div doesn't seem to do it on its own. I could swear there's a setting that controls this but I can't for the life of me find it.
AFAIK, Roll mode can use with time scales 50ms/div - 100s/div and in Roll mode max memory is 1.4M (2x1.4M)
No trigger. It just roll like paper roll plotter. Its memory lenghth is 1.4Mpts. with 50ms/div it have its maximum samplerate what is 2MSa/s. Peak detect is available also in roll mode of course. Average and ERES not.
New samples are plotted to display horizontal border and old samples are pushed like FIFO.
It is its limits, like or not. It is made that way. Period.
(Disclaimer, I have not used latest firmwares but I do not believe this thing change, it do not sell any more if it change. ;) )
If need more memory and samplerate using 50ms/div - 100s/div then just do not use ROLL mode. Normal acquisition with Auto trig or Normal or Single shot. Max memory is then 14M with 2 channels on and with 50ms/div max samplerate naturally 20MSa/s. Of course in then can live with less samplerate but need more history then just reduce memory lenght.
With 7k memory 2 channel in 1 group open, 100s/div it have 5 sample/s and it can save up to 3912 these 1400 second acquisitions sequentially. 5476800s data (63 days) plus (sadly too big) time cap between single acquisitions.
Thanks! So i suppose that there isn't a way to zoom with the scope running...
Sigh.
Has anyone managed to get i2c triggering on 7-bit addresses working? Triggering on message start works.
With respect to triggering on 7 bit address + value:
* It works when I set everything to "don't care".
* It works when I set a data value that's present
* It works when I set the read/write attribute to match what's present (and it won't trigger if I get this wrong, which is good)
* It works with combinations of data value and read/write that actually match what's present
* It does *not* work with any combination where I set the address, at least with the signal that I'm using (an Arduino's output to an i2c display), even when the address value I set matches what the decoder consistently shows.
I've already tried things like using the 20 MHz bandwidth filter on the probes. It makes no difference. And frankly, if the decoder can find the address, why can't the triggering mechanism do the same?
What data would you guys like for diagnosis of this?
Here's proof that the address I'm having it search for is present in the signal:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=1132828;image)
And here's what happens when I set the trigger to use that address and hit "single" or "normal":
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=1132832;image)
I would like to just add: There should be ( on any scope that does decode/trigger from serial protocols ) a button "copy this decoded frame to trigger".
You look around the list, find interesting packet , select and copy it to trigger.... That would be huuge timesaver...
Sorry for the tangent...
With SDS1202X-E firmware revision 1.3.23 (or 7.0.1.3.23 seen on scope 'system' screen), the 'Link to Trigger' button on the DECODE page 2 has been changed to 'Copy Setting.' This adds the ability to not only link the DECODE to the trigger ('Copy To Trig'), but to link the trigger to the DECODE (Copy From Trig). Both options are on a submenu of 'Copy Setting.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nsuqanf2_k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nsuqanf2_k)QuoteWith SDS1202X-E firmware revision 1.3.23 (or 7.0.1.3.23 seen on scope 'system' screen), the 'Link to Trigger' button on the DECODE page 2 has been changed to 'Copy Setting.' This adds the ability to not only link the DECODE to the trigger ('Copy To Trig'), but to link the trigger to the DECODE (Copy From Trig). Both options are on a submenu of 'Copy Setting.'
Does this help?
Good to hear it's OK now, and nice of you for reporting it back...
I usually say that user error is best type of problem, because it's easiest to solve...
It's always best for everybody, including the source of error... :-DD
Is there a best USB memory stick size for storing data? Has anyone experienced issues with one too large, say 2T? Would I be better off getting a 32G? Are there particular brands or sizes to avoid?Not so much for saving stuff to however for uploading stuff like firmware yes you are best to keep to 8GB or less and formatted in FAT32.
Now, in my defense, I don't believe this to be pure user error, because I was getting exactly the same thing on the digital channels, and the trigger will not fire at all if you have the channels reversed. In this case, the trigger would fire if the address was set to "don't care". It's just that the address seen by the decoder (0x4e) was clearly not the address that would allow the trigger to fire. As such, this clearly wasn't a case of doing something dumb like reversing the leads. Nor does the signal look any different now, with it working, than it did when it wasn't working, at least that I can tell through inspection.
Hi friends, I'm a new user of this interesting forum to which I hope to be able to contribute soon.
I recently purchased an SDS1204X-E and as I imagine it happens for many of you when you are getting ready to use a new product, I have focused (and partially stuck...) on a strange behavior of the instrument concerning the noise superimposed to the traces.
What I observe on my unit and which leaves me rather perplexed is that the noise superimposed on some tracks (channel 2 in particular ... the magenta) visibly increases when the related trace is moved from the center of the screen and positioned near the edge (using the vertical positioning knob).
This happens both with all the channels set in the GND position and in more marked mode, with the channels set in DC (or AC)
As you can see from the attached images, the thickness of channel two (magenta) and channel 3 (cyan), visibly increases when the related trace is placed near the edge of the screen.
I did the self-calibration but nothing has changed!
Hello,Welcome to the forum.
this is surely a dso beginner question. I own an SDS1204X-E with actual FW 6.1.35R2.
(Attachment Link)
The problem is how can I cut an dedicated time range of the waveform for viewing and save to file from screen e.g. one period of 140ms in this case? The time base allows only the usual coarse granulation - same for zooming. In opposite the position has fine granulation with 2% of the time scale. I tried with remote too - but it is same behaviour (TIME_DIV 14.2e-3 will be rounded to next value of 10ms).
I thought that if the dso has the points in the memory I can access these points accurate as well.
I made few experiments with segmented aquisition and certain trigger approaches - so far no luck.
Any hint is appreciated.
(Attachment Link)
Thank you tautech for the kind welcome.Correct X-E does not offer a variable timebase however for the signals above 10ms/div comes close to what you want.
I think it is a kind of misunderstanding. So I want it formulate in another way: The task is to view and to save the data only of one period of any frequency. I think with the coarse horizontal time scale it is not possible as we see in the attached pictures.
Me was told that some of the other dso supplier have a kind of fine timebase adjustment. OK - we have not!
So how we can cut of the desired time range from memory?
Thank you.
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?
I did this with my two other DSOs (different brand) and found it to be a great enhancement for me.
More often than not, I manage to cause an unwanted jump in value or selection when pressing the knob.
Maybe, tis is just me...
Regards
Chris
Please share the model of the new encoder once you do it. The encoders are one of the biggest flaws of these models.Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?
I did this with my two other DSOs (different brand) and found it to be a great enhancement for me.
More often than not, I manage to cause an unwanted jump in value or selection when pressing the knob.
Maybe, tis is just me...
Regards
Chris
Hello Chris,
Not only you. I will change the Encoder too, as soon as I find one with "soft tooth"
Regards
Volker
100 % correct
That was the first thing I noticed after turning on the device.
This is really stupid.
On the 1104X-E, the UI performance grinds to a halt with the LA attached
Quote“I have a Siglent SDS1104X-E hacked to 200 MHz and have installed the WiFi option. At the moment I have no plans to get or use the Arbitrary Waveform Generator (AWG) or the Logic Analyzer (LA) but was wondering, is there any reason NOT to install them? Will it have any negative effect on performance or in some other way? If not, I might as well install them, perhaps in a few years some cheap AWG or LA hardware will turn up on Ebay.”Not at all however you have 30 free trial uses for any options so they are effectively active already albeit only for 30 uses.
For an MSO at this level, I consider the older Rigol DS1000Z+ with LA probes to be a significantly better solution
I bought an 1104X-E recently and am so far very pleased. It came with manual -E03A which I now see has been updated and current manual is -E05A. So I quickly scanned through for "what has changed?" (Unfortunately, the manuals don't reference specific firmware versions, etc).To accommodate the very similar but slightly different new model SDS1104X-U.
Some differences I noted which might be significant.
1. The new manual drops the statement "SDS1000X-E has full BW with all V/div settings including 500uV/div to 2mV/div." which appeared in the old. (mine is 6.1.35R2; maintains tr, tf at around 1.4nS (rebirthed as 1204X-E!) at 500uV/div OK)
2. The new manual drops the statement, with respect to triggering, “No matter whether the input of the channel selected is enabled, the channel can work normally.” (Mine does not; If the channel is deselected, it does not appear as a trigger source option.).
3 The new manual drops the statement “SIGLENT provides passive probes for the oscilloscopes. For detailed technical information of the probes, please refer to the corresponding Probe User’s Guide.” (Mine certainly came with probes).
So the question is - why the changes?
I'm just looking for my first scope, and some days ago I said I wasn't considering DS1000Z+ "'cause it's outdated". Do you hear that? It's just me eating my own words right now. How the ignorant dares...
X-U max sensitivity is 1mV therefore cannot operate at 500uV....yes this Chinglish is a little confusing.To accommodate the very similar but slightly different new model SDS1104X-U.
These new DSO's now share the the same manual.
Yes, I see that the -05 manual includes references to the -U version. If your comment is an answer to my question, does that imply that the -U does not have full BW at 500uV/div range and does not come with probes? Strange way to address model differences if so :D Or is Siglent keeping its options option wrt a possible future downgrade of the -E package?
Differences, including also info about probes.
(https://siglent.fi/pic/SDS1104X-U/Compare-X-U---X-E-688.png)
I have a suggestion to Siglent, if they listen here. I have an SDS1104X-E and an SDG2042. They work well together to do Bode plots. The process is very slow however. The function is great for making measurements but useless for tuning a radio IF, for example, in real time. It is fairly easy to make real time swept measurements with the pair by having the generator sweep at the desired rate and setting the scope sweep time to match. You can even have the second channel generate a sync pulse. There is a sync output on the back of the generator that works fine too. The front panel connector for channel 2 is just more convenient to use!
The display you see on the scope is the envelop of the test signal as it is swept through the pass band of whatever it is that you are testing/tuning. It is perfectly useable as it is. It would that much nicer, however, if you could set the vertical display of the scope to give you the log of the output voltage, a dB scale in other words. I realize that there are mathematical issues with doing this on a signal that passes through zero but there are reasonable things you could do about that. Just setting a minimum displayed level for the current sensitivity setting for example.
Of course you can do much the same thing with an external log amp and I have one on order. It just seems to me that the scope firmware could do this sort of thing and make the external amp unnecessary....
Perhaps you have found it works some amount faster if you turn ALC off. (Channel Gain Auto/Hold, select Hold) But in this case you need manually first check what is maximum level and manually set channel V/Div so that signal do not clip.
Naturally maximum dynamic range is now limited and not anymore up to even 140dB.
Although, when I just tried BodePlot II on my SDS1104X-E with Channel Gain set to Hold, it seemed to leave the SDG2042X AWG in a weird state where front panel was locked/unresponsive after I stopped the plot. After starting another plot on the scope after setting Channel Gain back to Auto, the AWG problem went away.Thing is nez, when a SDG is connected to your scope and it's in Bode plot mode it's not yours anymore as the scope owns it !
I didn't have time to look much into it, so I can check it out again later if no one else has the issue.
Although, when I just tried BodePlot II on my SDS1104X-E with Channel Gain set to Hold, it seemed to leave the SDG2042X AWG in a weird state where front panel was locked/unresponsive after I stopped the plot. After starting another plot on the scope after setting Channel Gain back to Auto, the AWG problem went away.Thing is nez, when a SDG is connected to your scope and it's in Bode plot mode it's not yours anymore as the scope owns it !
I didn't have time to look much into it, so I can check it out again later if no one else has the issue.
Turn Bode plot to OFF and you can have it back. ;)
Given that SDS1104X-E can be unlocked to have 200 MHz bandwidth (this is still possible with newer copies of the scope, right?), is there any reason to buy the considerably more expensive SDS1204X-E over SDS1104X-E?Welcome to the forum.
SDS1000X-U firmware v1.1.5R6 (https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2021/05/SDS1104X-U_1.1.5R6_EN.zip)The only product in the X-U range, SDS1104X-U has its own thread and yes that FW came out a couple of weeks back. ;)
This is for PRODUCT_ID 17001.
I have owned a Siglent SDS1104X-E for a few years now, and I cannot connect the unit to my wifi. I do not control the SSID or password for the wifi
I use, and I have discovered that the unit cannot connect to the wifi if the SSID possesses as space or a special character (e.g. -, &, +, etc), nor can
it connect if the wifi password has either spaces or special characters in it.
This is a severel imitation, I need my unit to be able to connect to this wifi so that I can automate my measurements. I have spent money on the wifi
dongle for this purpose, but in this situation it is useless. What can I do to make this unit work with this wifi network, given that I cannot control
either the SSID or the password?
Hi SMB784,
Jason @ SIGLENT North America here. Thank you for writing.
Engineering is aware of the limitation regarding the current situation with the XE firmware being incompatible with SSIDs and PSKs that have spaces or special characters.
The current solution is to only use the WiFi on networks that have SSIDs and PSKs that do not have spaces or special characters.
Engineering is working on a firmware enhancement that will allow special characters and spaces, but it has not been released yet. I do not know when it will be released.
My recommendation would be to sign up for our monthly newsletter. We send out notifications for FW changes in each issue, so when it is fixed, you can quickly receive that information:
https://siglentna.com/orbital-care/
NOTE: The WiFi option does not work with Mesh networks. If you wish to use the device on more complex networking configurations, then this may be an appropriate option:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/wifi-performance-is-slow-or-does-not-connect-well-to-my-network/
J
Is SDS1000X-E still supported? Are any firmware updates expected?They no longer reply to issues/bug reports so I guess low priority or no longer of interest.
New firmware and optional OS update for SDS1104 and 1204X-E models.
I downgraded to SDS1xx4X-E_6.1.35R2_EN and wifi is working again.
Chris
I downgraded to SDS1xx4X-E_6.1.35R2_EN and wifi is working again.
Chris
I guess I will hold off updating then as I purchased this model based back in 2019 (TL-WN725N).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008IFXQFU/ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008IFXQFU/)
So you are running the newer OS on the .35R2 firmware?
What are labels?New feature to label traces and found in the channel menu on the new P3.
I thought it was a reference to the Uboot-OS Version. That's not on the picture from rf-loop though, so it could be different for others. I have not updated the OS before. I guessed that 8.1 was version 1, and by updating the OS I would get 8.2.100% correct.
Ok, my Uboot-OS Version is displayed as 8.2 after the V2 OS update.
I guess, that the update did work then...
@rf-loop: FW 7.0.6.1.25R1???
I am not aware, that there is FW starting with 7. for the SDS1104X-E.
So far, the current ones start with 6.
How is that?
Chris
Will the new OS/firmware maintain my "upgrade" of my SDS1104X-E to a SDS1204X-E?
I hope they also remember their little brother 1202x-e ... :-//
I upgraded to latest 6.1.37R2 firmware.
But I can't for my life get it to upgrade to OS version 2. Tried every USB stick I have. Still says Uboot-OS version 8.1.
Are you using an 8GB or 32GB drive as suggested in notes?
Are the update files in the root folder?
I upgraded to latest 6.1.37R2 firmware.
But I can't for my life get it to upgrade to OS version 2. Tried every USB stick I have. Still says Uboot-OS version 8.1.
I upgraded to latest 6.1.37R2 firmware.
But I can't for my life get it to upgrade to OS version 2. Tried every USB stick I have. Still says Uboot-OS version 8.1.
I had the same problem, finally I got a 2gb stick to work with. (Before that I tried 16GB and 8GB).
It is also important that all files must be in the root directory. (Only unpacking into the root directory did not work for me).
For sure it seems WiFi is broken and can confirm others findings. :(WiFi fix will soon be available for public download but sorry no official release date yet. :(
Reported.
I updated the OS and the firmware and I'm not sure if the OS update worked correctly. I inserted a USB flash with all the files in the root directory and restarted the oscilloscope, but it looked like nothing happened during the restart.No.
I attached the versions after the updates. Do these version indicate a successful update?
I tried to downgrade the OS version to the previous one and it showed 7.1. Then I installed the new OS again and it shows 7.2 again.I updated the OS and the firmware and I'm not sure if the OS update worked correctly. I inserted a USB flash with all the files in the root directory and restarted the oscilloscope, but it looked like nothing happened during the restart.No.
I attached the versions after the updates. Do these version indicate a successful update?
See blurpy's reply:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg3648412/#msg3648412 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg3648412/#msg3648412)
Ah OK then it might be fine. :-+I tried to downgrade the OS version to the previous one and it showed 7.1. Then I installed the new OS again and it shows 7.2 again.I updated the OS and the firmware and I'm not sure if the OS update worked correctly. I inserted a USB flash with all the files in the root directory and restarted the oscilloscope, but it looked like nothing happened during the restart.No.
I attached the versions after the updates. Do these version indicate a successful update?
See blurpy's reply:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg3648412/#msg3648412 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg3648412/#msg3648412)
I see the new options and Wi-Fi stopped working. Just version 7.2 instead of 8.2 looks strange.Yes 37R2 breaks WiFi however a public fix is to be released soon and with the 37R3 we got last evening WiFi is working again. :phew:
Is there any way to save the data from an FFT?Email sent.
It would be useful to me to be able to save the FFT after it is smoothed by many averages. I would like to be able to compare the FFT plots from various configurations of my circuit.
I can save the plots, and assuming I did not touch any for the positioning and/or scaling controls I can compare those, however it would be nice to actually have the frequency/magnitude data in a CSV file.
Chris
New firmware and optional OS update for SDS1104 and 1204X-E models.New App note for the logging functions:
Version V6.1.37R2
8.7 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS1xx4X-E_6.1.37R2_EN.zip
Release notes
Added data logger featuring Sample and Measurement Logger functions
I just got an e-mail advertisement or newsletter from Siglent and one of the 'articles' is a blurb about all the features in the new 37R2 firmware. Are they not aware that it is broken? They're actively encouraging people to download defective firmware without mentioning that it kills your WiFi. :-//Yeah dumb.
37R5 beta FW in my inbox to test over the weekend. :)Had a few issues with it still not always WiFi boot syncing the NTP clock especially if you booted time and time again however if left for a few minutes between boots it seemed to sync properly and all seems well.
Hey,Yes, everyone. :)
I have just updated to the latest firmware and OSV2.
Now when I connect wifi dongle it says wifi device connected but I do not have wifi action in menu, it just dissapeared.
Network interface available now is only LAN. TL725N does not turn green when I plug in.
Anyone had this problem?
Have you checked if DHCP is working now? In my network i like to use dhcp with reservation instead of fixed ip addressing...37R5 beta FW in my inbox to test over the weekend. :)Had a few issues with it still not always WiFi boot syncing the NTP clock especially if you booted time and time again however if left for a few minutes between boots it seemed to sync properly and all seems well.
Why it initially played up IDK. :-//
Just one little thing that's sort of associated that needs polishing and it should be ready for release but when that might be IDK.
Will do my best to have them push it through. :popcorn:
It is although not quite like I was expecting.Have you checked if DHCP is working now? In my network i like to use dhcp with reservation instead of fixed ip addressing...37R5 beta FW in my inbox to test over the weekend. :)Had a few issues with it still not always WiFi boot syncing the NTP clock especially if you booted time and time again however if left for a few minutes between boots it seemed to sync properly and all seems well.
Why it initially played up IDK. :-//
Just one little thing that's sort of associated that needs polishing and it should be ready for release but when that might be IDK.
Will do my best to have them push it through. :popcorn:
It is although not quite like I was expecting.
WiFi connection:
Change IP to an address where conflict is almost guaranteed then Save....DHCP = OFF
DHCP = ON ....IP returns to previous setting and one given some weeks back where any IP conflict would be very unlikely.
Will forward this info. :horse:
There's also an updated manual with the new Logging and NTP features detailed.New firmware and optional OS update for SDS1104 and 1204X-E models.New App note for the logging functions:
Version V6.1.37R2
8.7 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS1xx4X-E_6.1.37R2_EN.zip
Release notes
Added data logger featuring Sample and Measurement Logger functions
https://siglentna.com/application-note/datalogging-with-the-four-channel-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-models/
I actually prefer to keep scopes plugged into network, and for screen captures, just take a snapshot from web interface directly on a PC... That is where I take it in the end eventually anyways..Yes, I use the screen capture feature in the web interface too - when it's sitting on my desk beside the computer where Ethernet is available. ;)
If I recall correctly this was already reported..
Where I can get the new beta version?Probably not available outside beta testers and it may introduce new bugs of its own, after all it's still a beta... :)
Could we just get back the mysteriously blinking stanby LED?Oh please god no... :--
I know that there were some people like Bitluni on youtube who did not like it, but actually apart from the fact that I like that kind of blinking it was very useful:
Without it there is almost no way of knowing just by the looks that, whether the scope is plugged in when turned off, or that the outlet into which it is plugged in actually getting power. It still consumes 4W so in the energy bill, the LED would not make any difference, and because the lack of a HW switch one always has to check whether it is plugged in or not, or check if the outlet is switched in or not.
I can't think of a worse feature than having a flashing power light when the scope is turned off. That would be reason enough for me to never update the firmware.
I have a very old tektronix tds3000b and agilent dsox2002, this scopes has very good cursors, you can change units, from time to phase, I have also math mode with equation editor I think can be nice feature, math mode in this scope is very basic.It is but how much can you do with just the Multifunction control in a $500 DSO ?
It was slowly blinking, not like a modem. Like a newer Hotpoint washers "start" LED.
But that is why I mentioned the possible second FW version, if this is a low level stuff. We do not know how many people like it or hate it when pulsating.
Checked again the consumption of mine: 4 Watt. HW version 01-05.
Some people like it like this, some like that, would be almost no extra work to have everyone pleased.
So did anyone else measured the standby currend?FYI I have the SDS1104X-E ("upgraded" to SDS1204X-E), HW version 01-04, firmware version 6.1.37R2.
DBMandrake: What is your HW version?
So did anyone else measured the standby currend?FYI I have the SDS1104X-E ("upgraded" to SDS1204X-E), HW version 01-04, firmware version 6.1.37R2.
DBMandrake: What is your HW version?
I have measured a standby power consumption of 4.3W drawn from the 230V AC wall outlet, with only the power button blinking. This power was measured with an "Voltcraft EKM 265" AC mains power meter. I find this 4.3W quite a lot, considering that the same power meter measures 2.0W for my desktop PC in sleep mode, and 1.0W for the same desktop PC when shut down.
This 4.3W is in line with the 4W that you have measured, taking into account that AC mains power meters may not be very accurate when measuring low power levels.
This also makes me wonder if the 1.5 - 2W power consumption that DBMandrake has measured is correct.
So do you at least suport a hardware switch in the new FW?I can't think of a worse feature than having a flashing power light when the scope is turned off. That would be reason enough for me to never update the firmware.
Then you lack imagination! https://www.hackster.io/news/even-xzibit-would-appreciate-this-pimped-out-liquid-cooled-18k-oscilloscope-1536722378b5 (https://www.hackster.io/news/even-xzibit-would-appreciate-this-pimped-out-liquid-cooled-18k-oscilloscope-1536722378b5)
I think the flashing soft-power button is a good idea because it reminds me to shut off the hard power switch on the back....that I can't seem to find. Oh wait. :--
So you have the newest FW but your power button still blinking?Yes, that is correct. So far I have used three different firmware versions, and all three showed the blinking power button in standby mode. And since this scope does not have a hard AC mains switch, a blinking power button in standby mode is fine with me. I think you and me agree on this. I would be OK though with a software option for disabling the blinking power button.
Hi everyone. I have just buoght a SDS1104X-C(almost equals to SDS1104X-E). Does anyone have the wavegen hardware(SAG1021I) or logic probe hardware(SLA1016)? I wonder if they can be made by ourselves.
TIA
The flashing power button is a feature of the power supply, not the firmware.I think there is a misunderstanding here. To the best of my knowledge Siglent has not changed the behavior of the power button in the SDS1000 series. I have used the last three firmware versions on my SDS1104X-E (HW revision 01-04), and all three show the slow blinking power button in standby mode. Where it was said that this behavior has changed?
[....]
I did not know that Siglent changed it for the SDS1000 series as well.
My unit is hardware revision 01-05 (only about 2 months old, manufacture date in the last 6 months from memory) and there must be differences with the power supply as the power button does not flash in standby no matter what firmware version I use. (I've used 3 different versions during testing)So did anyone else measured the standby currend?FYI I have the SDS1104X-E ("upgraded" to SDS1204X-E), HW version 01-04, firmware version 6.1.37R2.
DBMandrake: What is your HW version?
I have measured a standby power consumption of 4.3W drawn from the 230V AC wall outlet, with only the power button blinking. This power was measured with an "Voltcraft EKM 265" AC mains power meter. I find this 4.3W quite a lot, considering that the same power meter measures 2.0W for my desktop PC in sleep mode, and 1.0W for the same desktop PC when shut down.
This 4.3W is in line with the 4W that you have measured, taking into account that AC mains power meters may not be very accurate when measuring low power levels.
This also makes me wonder if the 1.5 - 2W power consumption that DBMandrake has measured is correct.
Mine measures 4W in standby as well. Hardware version 01-04.
My vote goes to no blinking power button as well. It's just awful.
So you have the newest FW but your power button still blinking?Yes, that is correct. So far I have used three different firmware versions, and all three showed the blinking power button in standby mode. And since this scope does not have a hard AC mains switch, a blinking power button in standby mode is fine with me. I think you and me agree on this. I would be OK though with a software option for disabling the blinking power button.
My unit is hardware revision 01-05 (only about 2 months old, manufacture date in the last 6 months from memory) and there must be differences with the power supply as the power button does not flash in standby no matter what firmware version I use. (I've used 3 different versions during testing).
What temperature was the unit at ? I find with mine that standby power is higher when the unit is hot - eg just switched off after it has been running for a while, but after a while (maybe 15 minutes or so) the long-term standby power drops down to about 2 watts.
[....]
No flashing power button on my 01-05 hardware revision, looks like there has been a hardware change to remove the flashing power light on standby, so potentially this cannot be changed in firmware for older units.
The flashing power button is a feature of the power supply, not the firmware.
Professionals, especially the ones working in big research labs, dont like flashing lights, because these usually indicate something is wrong.
Consequently, Siglent changed this behavior for the SDS5000X at some point. As far as i know, the SDS2000X Plus has never been shipped with that feature - even though I still have one with a flashing power button, just because it's a pre-production unit. The new SDS6000A also doesn't have that, of course.
I did not know that Siglent changed it for the SDS1000 series as well - but if so, then it's only consequent.
My unit is hardware revision 01-05 (only about 2 months old, manufacture date in the last 6 months from memory) and there must be differences with the power supply as the power button does not flash in standby no matter what firmware version I use. (I've used 3 different versions during testing)
What temperature was the unit at ? I find with mine that standby power is higher when the unit is hot - eg just switched off after it has been running for a while, but after a while (maybe 15 minutes or so) the long-term standby power drops down to about 2 watts.
I wonder if people here are just taking a quick measurement and not leaving the unit to cool down and reach thermal equilibrium ?
No flashing power button on my 01-05 hardware revision, looks like there has been a hardware change to remove the flashing power light on standby, so potentially this cannot be changed in firmware for older units.
I'm really glad that my later hardware revision doesn't have the flashing light as I'd find it extremely annoying.
Do you think that even the slowly blinking would annoy the professionals? Maybe some components would be easy to change to solve my problem?
Well, definitely no aging CRT :) but I would loose my warranty. Otherwise I would have opened ip up and look for the PS differences compared to that one reviewed by Dave. What do you think about my other question of the scope being bogged down, with full memory used? Especially with measurements enabled.Do you think that even the slowly blinking would annoy the professionals? Maybe some components would be easy to change to solve my problem?
Well, the SDS5000X has been evaluated by quite a number of engineers from various big research labs and this is where the complaint (together with the reasoning) came from. Even though such labs will usually not purchase oscilloscopes with less than 1 GHz bandwidth, even for less demanding tasks, Siglent still decided to apply the change to the lower end models as well - if only to have the same behavior for all models.
I honestly do not know what the hardware difference is and I think this would have to be clarified with the manufacturer of the power supply.
Maybe you find someone in the forum who owns a HW Rev. 1.04 (should be the vast majority) and hates the flashing standby light, hence would be willing to exchange their unit with yours? Thankfully, in modern DSOs there is no such thing like an aging CRT... ;)
Siglent has just released the 6.1.37R6 FW, that seems to have the NTP+WiFi issue fixed :)What NTP issue ? NTP is working for me in 6.1.37R2....
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/#sds1000x-e-series)
Glad they got wifi fixed :)Updated mine tonight and unfortunately WiFi is still not usable.
They uploaded a new version of the OSv2 zip as well. The content is the same except for the instructions, which seem to be updated based on all the confusion in this thread.
Hidden SSID's are right up there with MAC address filtering for "things that seem like a good idea but actually aren't". If your reason for the SSID being hidden is "security", please just stop.Indeed, hidden SSIDs are bad security theatre.
Unfortunately it hasn't fixed the use of a $ in the PSIK, unless it is used at the end.Are the special character tables you sent me still accurate/unchanged ?
Unfortunately it hasn't fixed the use of a $ in the PSIK, unless it is used at the end.Are the special character tables you sent me still accurate/unchanged ?
Thanks, yes please check some as we are posting about the special characters problem on Siglents forum again.Unfortunately it hasn't fixed the use of a $ in the PSIK, unless it is used at the end.Are the special character tables you sent me still accurate/unchanged ?
I only checked the $ character, I’m assuming the others still work. I can do a random check if needed?
What do you think about my other question of the scope being bogged down, with full memory used? Especially with measurements enabled.Well, in contrast to some other DSO brands/models, the SDS1000X-E series always uses the full record length for everything, including automatic measurements.
Updated mine tonight and unfortunately WiFi is still not usable.
Yes, the UI options to connect to WiFi that were completely missing in the previous version have returned, but I can't get a usable WiFi connection.
Sometimes it says connected, usually it says WLAN connection failed. Even when it does say connected I'm unable to ping it let alone log into the web interface.
It's about 1.5 metres from the base station...
* Full disclosure - I'm not using the "official" wireless adaptor however it is a TP-Link TL-WN725N which did work with version 6.1.35R2, although to be honest the connection was never very reliable or fast.
Oh well back to Ethernet for me... I hope others have better luck!
Thought I'd mention this version doesn't fix the issue where USB thumb drives won't auto-mount on boot, not that I was expecting it to.It's normal for USB sticks or any device that's connected not to be reported as connected at boot however for USB, LAN and WiFi their OSD indicators will show after boot in the lowest RH box.
Every time I boot up with a thumb drive still connected I have to unplug it and plug it back in again before it is recognised. Is there any way to feed this issue back to Siglent and does anyone else have the same issue ?
It's an 8GB Sandisk Cruzer which works fine for doing firmware updates and saving screenshots as long as it is plugged in after booting not before booting...
Unfortunately it hasn't fixed the use of a $ in the PSIK, unless it is used at the end.Are the special character tables you sent me still accurate/unchanged ?
I only checked the $ character, I’m assuming the others still work. I can do a random check if needed?
Thanks, yes please check some as we are posting about the special characters problem on Siglents forum again.
Email if you like. ;)
Thanks, same result as beta 37R5 FW you tested.Unfortunately it hasn't fixed the use of a $ in the PSIK, unless it is used at the end.Are the special character tables you sent me still accurate/unchanged ?
I only checked the $ character, I’m assuming the others still work. I can do a random check if needed?
Thanks, yes please check some as we are posting about the special characters problem on Siglents forum again.
Email if you like. ;)
Special characters retested for WiFi password on 6.1.37R6
It's not just that the icon doesn't appear if I boot the scope with the USB stick already connected, it doesn't mount it either.Thought I'd mention this version doesn't fix the issue where USB thumb drives won't auto-mount on boot, not that I was expecting it to.It's normal for USB sticks or any device that's connected not to be reported as connected at boot however for USB, LAN and WiFi their OSD indicators will show after boot in the lowest RH box.
Every time I boot up with a thumb drive still connected I have to unplug it and plug it back in again before it is recognised. Is there any way to feed this issue back to Siglent and does anyone else have the same issue ?
It's an 8GB Sandisk Cruzer which works fine for doing firmware updates and saving screenshots as long as it is plugged in after booting not before booting...
One catch for many after doing an OS update is not removing the OS files from the boot sector of a USB drive where if connected to the scope will run each time the scope is booted.Yes I'm aware of this, but this is nothing to do with the USB stick not mounting automatically on boot.
It's unreliable for me. Sometimes it works OK and the web interface is fairly usable. Sometimes it just won't connect or it connects but there is no useful data throughput.Updated mine tonight and unfortunately WiFi is still not usable.
Yes, the UI options to connect to WiFi that were completely missing in the previous version have returned, but I can't get a usable WiFi connection.
Sometimes it says connected, usually it says WLAN connection failed. Even when it does say connected I'm unable to ping it let alone log into the web interface.
It's about 1.5 metres from the base station...
* Full disclosure - I'm not using the "official" wireless adaptor however it is a TP-Link TL-WN725N which did work with version 6.1.35R2, although to be honest the connection was never very reliable or fast.
Oh well back to Ethernet for me... I hope others have better luck!
FYI, I just updated firmware on my SDS1204X-E ("upgraded" from SDS1104X-E) from v6.1.35R2 to v6.1.37R6, and remote control using the wifi connection with the scope's web server works fine for me. After the firmware update I needed to re-enter SSID and PSK of the wifi connection. After this was done the wifi connection was working but initially the connection was very slow. But after restarting the scope with the wifi dongle plugged in the wifi connection works fine without delays.
With respect to the TL-WN725N wifi adapter, I know that there are 3 hardware revisions of this adapter (v1, v2 and v3). As far as I understand, v2 uses a different Realtek wifi chip than v1 and v3. I am not sure if all 3 HW revisions of the adapter are supported by the firmware of the SDS1x04X-E.I think mine is V3 but I would have to check. It's definitely supported (in as far as there is a driver that loads for it) otherwise it wouldn't work at all as there are only 2 or 3 wifi drivers present in the firmware image.
No it's your USB stick incompatibility for whatever reasons. :-//It's not just that the icon doesn't appear if I boot the scope with the USB stick already connected, it doesn't mount it either.Thought I'd mention this version doesn't fix the issue where USB thumb drives won't auto-mount on boot, not that I was expecting it to.It's normal for USB sticks or any device that's connected not to be reported as connected at boot however for USB, LAN and WiFi their OSD indicators will show after boot in the lowest RH box.
Every time I boot up with a thumb drive still connected I have to unplug it and plug it back in again before it is recognised. Is there any way to feed this issue back to Siglent and does anyone else have the same issue ?
It's an 8GB Sandisk Cruzer which works fine for doing firmware updates and saving screenshots as long as it is plugged in after booting not before booting...
If I boot with the USB stick already connected and try the print button for example, it just complains that there is no USB storage device connected. I have to unplug and reconnect the USB stick after boot up for it to work.
This is clearly a bug.QuoteOne catch for many after doing an OS update is not removing the OS files from the boot sector of a USB drive where if connected to the scope will run each time the scope is booted.Yes I'm aware of this, but this is nothing to do with the USB stick not mounting automatically on boot.
It's not a big deal but it would be nice of them to fix it.
Yet from another close to the house building with a single Router/WiFi AP I still have full signal strength as shown in screenshots.It's unreliable for me. Sometimes it works OK and the web interface is fairly usable. Sometimes it just won't connect or it connects but there is no useful data throughput.Updated mine tonight and unfortunately WiFi is still not usable.
Yes, the UI options to connect to WiFi that were completely missing in the previous version have returned, but I can't get a usable WiFi connection.
Sometimes it says connected, usually it says WLAN connection failed. Even when it does say connected I'm unable to ping it let alone log into the web interface.
It's about 1.5 metres from the base station...
* Full disclosure - I'm not using the "official" wireless adaptor however it is a TP-Link TL-WN725N which did work with version 6.1.35R2, although to be honest the connection was never very reliable or fast.
Oh well back to Ethernet for me... I hope others have better luck!
FYI, I just updated firmware on my SDS1204X-E ("upgraded" from SDS1104X-E) from v6.1.35R2 to v6.1.37R6, and remote control using the wifi connection with the scope's web server works fine for me. After the firmware update I needed to re-enter SSID and PSK of the wifi connection. After this was done the wifi connection was working but initially the connection was very slow. But after restarting the scope with the wifi dongle plugged in the wifi connection works fine without delays.
One thing that may be an issue for me is that I have 3 wireless AP's in the house all broadcasting the same SSID's as our internal walls are far too thick to cover the house with one AP. This allows devices to roam between AP's automatically as they move around the house.
Even though one of the AP's is in the same room (about a metre away) from the scope, there's a possibility that the roaming support on the device is poor and it's sometimes connecting to a far away AP and thus not getting a usable signal. I'll need to do some more testing to see if this is the case.QuoteWith respect to the TL-WN725N wifi adapter, I know that there are 3 hardware revisions of this adapter (v1, v2 and v3). As far as I understand, v2 uses a different Realtek wifi chip than v1 and v3. I am not sure if all 3 HW revisions of the adapter are supported by the firmware of the SDS1x04X-E.I think mine is V3 but I would have to check. It's definitely supported (in as far as there is a driver that loads for it) otherwise it wouldn't work at all as there are only 2 or 3 wifi drivers present in the firmware image.
I have four other wireless adaptors of various models and chipsets and none of them are detected at all.
I don't have the scope in front of me at the moment but I can check via telnet to see which driver is loading for my adaptor - I did look last night but forgot to write down the driver name.
Part of the problem I suspect is its just not a very good adaptor - 2.4Ghz only and an extremely miniature antenna.
Is removing-inserting the key a problem? Think that the 1202x-e model often NEVER recognizes the key, and many times when you try to save a screenshot the device crashes. But maybe they are releasing FW for the 4 channel model only and have forgotten about the 2 channel model. Disappointed :--I have used different USB keys with the 1202X-E several times and never ran into issues. It just worked.
Is removing-inserting the key a problem? Think that the 1202x-e model often NEVER recognizes the key, and many times when you try to save a screenshot the device crashes. But maybe they are releasing FW for the 4 channel model only and have forgotten about the 2 channel model. Disappointed :--I have used different USB keys with the 1202X-E several times and never ran into issues. It just worked.
Have you tried different models? The manufacturers of USB sticks and SD cards have an unprecedented talent to botch specs.
Is removing-inserting the key a problem? Think that the 1202x-e model often NEVER recognizes the key, and many times when you try to save a screenshot the device crashes. But maybe they are releasing FW for the 4 channel model only and have forgotten about the 2 channel model. Disappointed :--I have used different USB keys with the 1202X-E several times and never ran into issues. It just worked.
Have you tried different models? The manufacturers of USB sticks and SD cards have an unprecedented talent to botch specs.
hello Borjam, well found. I have tried about 10 different models of keys, the problem remains. I believe it depends on some "different" chip hardware version on the same model .. Maybe the problems could be for example in a range of serial numbers. I believe yours is prior to mine...
Is removing-inserting the key a problem? Think that the 1202x-e model often NEVER recognizes the key, and many times when you try to save a screenshot the device crashes. But maybe they are releasing FW for the 4 channel model only and have forgotten about the 2 channel model. Disappointed :--I have used different USB keys with the 1202X-E several times and never ran into issues. It just worked.
Have you tried different models? The manufacturers of USB sticks and SD cards have an unprecedented talent to botch specs.
hello Borjam, well found. I have tried about 10 different models of keys, the problem remains. I believe it depends on some "different" chip hardware version on the same model .. Maybe the problems could be for example in a range of serial numbers. I believe yours is prior to mine...
I'm not at home now, I will check later and let you know. If I forget ping me with a private message or something.
Are you using USB3 keys? Maybe too modern? I will try a USB3 key as well.
OK I was wondering, some newer USB devices may have incompatibility problems with older USB ports.QuoteAre you using USB3 keys? Maybe too modern? I will try a USB3 key as well.
I don't have usb3 keys, but i am 15 years old and even recent ones (not usb3). ;)
What do you think about my other question of the scope being bogged down, with full memory used? Especially with measurements enabled.Well, in contrast to some other DSO brands/models, the SDS1000X-E series always uses the full record length for everything, including automatic measurements.
For example, if you acquire data at 1 GSa/s at a timebase of 1 ms/div, then you get a record length of 14 Mpts which equals the maximum memory you can set. Now every single trigger event causes a 14 Mpts long record that has to be mapped to the screen - this is done with heavy HW support, hence it is still reasonably fast (but would certainly be even faster if there were less data). With mautomatic measurements enabled, the entire record needs to scanned for certain measurements, this is done in software on the ARM core and this takes time. Think of the peak-peak measurement for instance - it has to scan the entire memory to find the correct answer. Also time measurements like signal period, almost the full memory needs to be searched in some cases to find a full period of a low frequency signal.
You can now either limit the max. memory to e.g. 140 kpts, which will reduce the sample rate to 10 MSa/s but also divides the record length by 100 and screen mapping speeds up in any case. For automatic measurements it depends on the specific measurement, but processing time will also be reduced for many of them.
There are DSOs that only use a small secondary buffer of some 64 kpts for display and measurements (Keysight MSOX) or even just the screen memory, which is less than 1 kpts (Rigol DS1000) which means simplicity and speed is paramount, but measurements aren't accurate at times. By contrast, Tek or LeCroy are the "analyzing scopes" that use much larger buffers or even the full memory for final signal processing, but they slow down on long records. Siglent has joined the latter group for several years now. Thanks to adequate processing power, the sowdown isn't dramatic in Siglent scopes though.
I upgraded to the latest firmware and the WIFI is working with the Trendnet module. However the NTP is not wanting to work. Is there a known to work NTP server in North America I can try? The usual NIST and Google servers don't seem to work. They were funky before with a wired connection but not working at all wired or wireless now.Based on your location from your profile here are some NTP servers close to you:
Just out of curiosity, did they ever fix this in a firmware update:Yes, they finally fixed it. It really looked ugly and cheap before.
(https://i.imgur.com/VSsPF1X.png)
https://youtu.be/Cwbwq-AKbPc?t=828
When watching reviews that seemed like a total WTF. Putting cursor measurements in such an awkward place and then not adding any shadow/outline/backdrop to the text so that it's basically unreadable once any waveforms are displayed in the center of the screen. I use cursors frequently the thought of having to disable channels and/or move them out of the way to be able to read a poorly positioned and rendered cursor measurements overlay is rather unappealing.
RE Oscillofun- Is there a Z Axis (blanking) input I don't see on the scope?No. Just X-Y.
Then I had a thought to check this one and the interesting effect done with a tad of display persistence.RE Oscillofun- Is there a Z Axis (blanking) input I don't see on the scope?No. Just X-Y.
Let's hope that the "All measurements" table does not cover half of the screen now. I would also prefer some kind of shadow or outline of the text, or maybe just a darker tone of the same color, but its nice that they are starting to adress the problem.I just would like to clarify this comment of mine. So it is not the space it takes would be the problem with "all measurements" but if the background would not be visible, like in the case of the small measurements window, which was posted by Rooster Cogburn. That would mae that window almost unusable compared to the current case.
Let's hope that the "All measurements" table does not cover half of the screen now. I would also prefer some kind of shadow or outline of the text, or maybe just a darker tone of the same color, but its nice that they are starting to adress the problem.I just would like to clarify this comment of mine. So it is not the space it takes would be the problem with "all measurements" but if the background would not be visible, like in the case of the small measurements window, which was posted by Rooster Cogburn. That would mae that window almost unusable compared to the current case.
I was hoping for a way to connect some vintage Tek plugins that need blanking to be useful. I'll keep looking. Variable persistence is clever but not exploitable in this application.
I was hoping for a way to connect some vintage Tek plugins that need blanking to be useful. I'll keep looking. Variable persistence is clever but not exploitable in this application.
That's an interesting idea, old plug-ins with a DSO. Blanking was an integral part of the basic operation of a CRO, so adding external blanking was fairly easy. DSOs work entirely differently, of course, and I've never seen blanking on one. However, with a bit of clever firmware, it would seem not too difficult to implement blanking using another channel (or even EXT) as the blanking input and then define it as a MATH function--CH1 blanked by CH2 according to some formula that could be selectable or enterable. There might even be a clever way to do it now using existing MATH functions to move the signal off-screen for blanking.
There are some that have blanking. MSOX3000T has it but as a logic function, (ON/OFF) not analog.... Still useful for blanking, just not for full analog modulation of trace..
There are some that have blanking. MSOX3000T has it but as a logic function, (ON/OFF) not analog.... Still useful for blanking, just not for full analog modulation of trace..
What input does it use to blank and is the threshold variable?
Z-Axis Input in XY Display Mode (Blanking)
When you select the XY display mode, the time base is turned off. Channel 1 is the X-axis
input, channel 2 is the Y-axis input, and the EXT TRIG IN is the Z-axis input. If you only want to
see portions of the Y versus X display, use the Z-axis input. Z-axis turns the trace on and off
(analog oscilloscopes called this Z-axis blanking because it turned the beam on and off).
When Z is low (<1.4 V), Y versus X is displayed; when Z is high (>1.4 V), the trace is turned off.
Z-Axis Input in XY Display Mode (Blanking)
When you select the XY display mode, the time base is turned off. Channel 1 is the X-axis
input, channel 2 is the Y-axis input, and the EXT TRIG IN is the Z-axis input. If you only want to
see portions of the Y versus X display, use the Z-axis input. Z-axis turns the trace on and off
(analog oscilloscopes called this Z-axis blanking because it turned the beam on and off).
When Z is low (<1.4 V), Y versus X is displayed; when Z is high (>1.4 V), the trace is turned off.
Hello, Siglent? Are you reading that? :)
Why? it is very rare and mostly useless thing these days, and you expect that it is reasonable that we compare feature set of 12000 USD and 500 USD scope...
While on that page, 500 USD Siglent has Color grading mode and 12 kUSD 3000T doesn't. That one would be useful too me, in fact. Hello Keysight, are you reading this ...
Nothing wrong with suggesting and motivating them to add some more stuff. Yes, there's already lots of stuff, but I'm greedy.Make a list and provide a valid use case.
Thanks Blurpy! At least it did not get worse. Hoping to get those shadows or similar styling added to the letters.Let's hope that the "All measurements" table does not cover half of the screen now. I would also prefer some kind of shadow or outline of the text, or maybe just a darker tone of the same color, but its nice that they are starting to adress the problem.I just would like to clarify this comment of mine. So it is not the space it takes would be the problem with "all measurements" but if the background would not be visible, like in the case of the small measurements window, which was posted by Rooster Cogburn. That would mae that window almost unusable compared to the current case.
Here is an example.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=1320389;image)
new firmware 6.1.37R8
Has anyone tried the latest firmware V6.1.37R8? I read somewhere it breaks wifi.Still working fine with my pre release SN#0014 SDS1104X-E but yes you need to re-enter your SSID and PSK.
I've might have discovered a bug, maybe someone can duplicate. Whenever I have a USB drive plugged in (in this case, a 32GB thumb drive), my USB wifi module isn't recognized on boot, and the system locks up when I hit WiFi Set in the Utility->I/O submenu.No problems here with 8GB USB sticks. :-//
I have my USB Wifi module (TP-Link TL_WN725N) plugged into the USB port at the backside of my SDS1104X-E scope. In my experience the WiFi module is always detected after bootup, with or without USB drive plugged into the front USB port. But often detection of the Wifi module does not result in a reliable Wifi connection. Many times after boot up with Wifi module plugged in and detected by the the scope, I cannot access the web interface of the scope at the IP address of the Wifi module. When this happens I can repair the Wifi connection by switching Off and On WiFi and hit the Connect button in menu Utility => I/O => WiFi Set. Sometimes multiple attempts are needed to get a working WiFi connection, and the only way to find out if the WiFi connection is working is to check if the scope's web interface can be accessed on the IP address of the WiFi module. Once the WiFi connection is working the connection remains stable as long as the scope stays powered on.
To summarize, in my experience the scope most of the times does not establish a reliable WiFi connection with my WiFi router after boot up. When this happens I can make a working WiFi connection by switching Off/On WiFi and hit the Connect button in the Utility => I/O => WiFi Set menu. Many times multiple attempts are needed before a working WiFi connection is established. It could be that the occurrence of this problem depends on the WiFi Access Point (WiFi router) that is used.
There is certainly room for improvement wrt the reliability of the WiFi connection.
................For Windows, Ctrl + mouse scroll wheel is the quick fix to make the webserver ratio best fit monitors.
But it's not a big issue, now that I know it works with a maximized browser window. Just wanted to mention the issue in the forum, if anyone else happened to see the same.
For Windows, Ctrl + mouse scroll wheel is the quick fix to make the webserver ratio best fit monitors.
So not a big issue, only a bit space wasting and looks a bit stretched on a really big ultra wide monitor.
That's not entirely correct. By default Ctrl + mouse scroll zooming isn't enabled in Chrome, Edge and Firefox, so that doesn't work (but zooming is available in the browser option menu).
Thus, you can adjust the display to be smaller and click the upper right button to display all the buttons of the SDS1104X-E.
I have found what appears to be a bug in the Signal Logger on the SDS1104X-E. Applying a slow square wave with a 55 s period (18 mHz), I see frequency and period measured accurately by the logger at 2 samples per second (first screen shot). However, when the logger is set to 1 sample per second, the measured period is 68 s (second screen shot), a 24% error that can't be accounted for by the +/- 1 s resolution. The same error occurs with a longer period signal (e.g., 188 s is measured to be 231 s). I see no problem at 10 and 20 samples per second, or when acquiring the waveform in the scope's ordinary mode. Has anyone else observed this bug? My scope is updated to what I believe is the latest version of the firmware (6.1.37R6).Welcome to the forum.
I have found what appears to be a bug in the Signal Logger on the SDS1104X-E. ...Thanks for your report. :-+
Latest firmware version is here:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS1xx4X-E_V6.1.37R8_EN.zip
On its site siglent offers two versions of the V2 operating system.They have made 3 revisions of the V2 OS actually. The first one seems to be removed now. The only difference between them is the pdf with instructions. It's been updated with more screenshots.
Simple mistake?
On its site siglent offers two versions of the V2 operating system.
Simple mistake?
On its site siglent offers two versions of the V2 operating system.
Simple mistake?
It is cumbersome because there is no proper system for identifying distribution packages and programs and / or firmware versions.
Thanks god they don't make airplanes.
It's unreliable for me. Sometimes it works OK and the web interface is fairly usable. Sometimes it just won't connect or it connects but there is no useful data throughput.
One thing that may be an issue for me is that I have 3 wireless AP's in the house all broadcasting the same SSID's as our internal walls are far too thick to cover the house with one AP. This allows devices to roam between AP's automatically as they move around the house.
Even though one of the AP's is in the same room (about a metre away) from the scope, there's a possibility that the roaming support on the device is poor and it's sometimes connecting to a far away AP and thus not getting a usable signal. I'll need to do some more testing to see if this is the case.
Some recent discussion:It's unreliable for me. Sometimes it works OK and the web interface is fairly usable. Sometimes it just won't connect or it connects but there is no useful data throughput.
One thing that may be an issue for me is that I have 3 wireless AP's in the house all broadcasting the same SSID's as our internal walls are far too thick to cover the house with one AP. This allows devices to roam between AP's automatically as they move around the house.
Even though one of the AP's is in the same room (about a metre away) from the scope, there's a possibility that the roaming support on the device is poor and it's sometimes connecting to a far away AP and thus not getting a usable signal. I'll need to do some more testing to see if this is the case.
Are you using DHCP or a static IP?
On my original firmware (ca 2020), I found that WiFi was unstable and constantly connected/disconnected when using DHCP but was rock stable when using static IP.
I posted this as a bug report back then and also to the Forum https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-wifi-totally-flakey-with-dhcp-on-(but-rock-solid-with-dhcp-off)/msg3216354/#msg3216354 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-wifi-totally-flakey-with-dhcp-on-(but-rock-solid-with-dhcp-off)/msg3216354/#msg3216354)
Some recent discussion:It's unreliable for me. Sometimes it works OK and the web interface is fairly usable. Sometimes it just won't connect or it connects but there is no useful data throughput.
One thing that may be an issue for me is that I have 3 wireless AP's in the house all broadcasting the same SSID's as our internal walls are far too thick to cover the house with one AP. This allows devices to roam between AP's automatically as they move around the house.
Even though one of the AP's is in the same room (about a metre away) from the scope, there's a possibility that the roaming support on the device is poor and it's sometimes connecting to a far away AP and thus not getting a usable signal. I'll need to do some more testing to see if this is the case.
Are you using DHCP or a static IP?
On my original firmware (ca 2020), I found that WiFi was unstable and constantly connected/disconnected when using DHCP but was rock stable when using static IP.
I posted this as a bug report back then and also to the Forum https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-wifi-totally-flakey-with-dhcp-on-(but-rock-solid-with-dhcp-off)/msg3216354/#msg3216354 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-wifi-totally-flakey-with-dhcp-on-(but-rock-solid-with-dhcp-off)/msg3216354/#msg3216354)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-wifi-needs-router-ssid-broadcast-all-the-time/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-wifi-needs-router-ssid-broadcast-all-the-time/)
With the latest firmware behavior is consistent. (V6.1.37R8 and V2 OS)
Hey guys! My sds1104x-e (hacked up to 200MHz) software version is 6.1.33 and Uboot-OS version is 8.1. Do I have to install every single update in incremental order or can I jump straight to the latest one without installing any updates in between them? The latest firmware is V6.1.37R8 and OS is Operating System -V2? And which one should be installed first, or does this matter?
The 2 and 4GB sticks should work just fine.Hey guys! My sds1104x-e (hacked up to 200MHz) software version is 6.1.33 and Uboot-OS version is 8.1. Do I have to install every single update in incremental order or can I jump straight to the latest one without installing any updates in between them? The latest firmware is V6.1.37R8 and OS is Operating System -V2? And which one should be installed first, or does this matter?
I only got my scope a couple of weeks ago so I'm definitely not an expert but I went from 6.1.35R2 straight to V6.1.37R8 without problems. Maybe someone can be of more help though.
As far as the OS, I've been having problems to install OS2 but yesterday I read that the USB stick should be either 8gb or 32gb. Unfortunately I only have 2,4 and 16gb sticks so I don't know if this is the actual problem I'm having.
The 2 and 4GB sticks should work just fine.Hey guys! My sds1104x-e (hacked up to 200MHz) software version is 6.1.33 and Uboot-OS version is 8.1. Do I have to install every single update in incremental order or can I jump straight to the latest one without installing any updates in between them? The latest firmware is V6.1.37R8 and OS is Operating System -V2? And which one should be installed first, or does this matter?
I only got my scope a couple of weeks ago so I'm definitely not an expert but I went from 6.1.35R2 straight to V6.1.37R8 without problems. Maybe someone can be of more help though.
As far as the OS, I've been having problems to install OS2 but yesterday I read that the USB stick should be either 8gb or 32gb. Unfortunately I only have 2,4 and 16gb sticks so I don't know if this is the actual problem I'm having.
Thank you tautech. It was in the manual where it says for the 8/32gb so I gave up trying until I get the proper stick but since you say it should work, I'll give it another try.
Thank you tautech. It was in the manual where it says for the 8/32gb so I gave up trying until I get the proper stick but since you say it should work, I'll give it another try.
I've heard of difficulty with certain USB drives, but I have two different 16GB versions that work find with both of my Siglent scopes. Just make sure they are formatted FAT32.
Nice, enjoy OS 8.2. :)Thank you tautech. It was in the manual where it says for the 8/32gb so I gave up trying until I get the proper stick but since you say it should work, I'll give it another try.
I've heard of difficulty with certain USB drives, but I have two different 16GB versions that work find with both of my Siglent scopes. Just make sure they are formatted FAT32.
I'm trying with a different USB stick as we speak. It's 4gb. The instructions say that after updating the scope should restart by itself and if not to do it manually after 10 minutes.
5 more minutes to go... :)
Also, the stick has a LED, which was blinking during the start-up but now it's been constantly ON.
EDIT: OK success! I had to manually restart the scope but it appears to have the OS 8.2 version now :-+
Thank you tautech. It was in the manual where it says for the 8/32gb so I gave up trying until I get the proper stick but since you say it should work, I'll give it another try.
I've heard of difficulty with certain USB drives, but I have two different 16GB versions that work find with both of my Siglent scopes. Just make sure they are formatted FAT32.
I'm trying with a different USB stick as we speak. It's 4gb. The instructions say that after updating the scope should restart by itself and if not to do it manually after 10 minutes.
5 more minutes to go... :)
Also, the stick has a LED, which was blinking during the start-up but now it's been constantly ON.
EDIT: OK success! I had to manually restart the scopw but it appears to have the OS 8.2 version now :-+
During boot the scope's OS automatically looks for OS files in the root of a USB stick and if present autoloads them.Thank you tautech. It was in the manual where it says for the 8/32gb so I gave up trying until I get the proper stick but since you say it should work, I'll give it another try.
I've heard of difficulty with certain USB drives, but I have two different 16GB versions that work find with both of my Siglent scopes. Just make sure they are formatted FAT32.
I'm trying with a different USB stick as we speak. It's 4gb. The instructions say that after updating the scope should restart by itself and if not to do it manually after 10 minutes.
5 more minutes to go... :)
Also, the stick has a LED, which was blinking during the start-up but now it's been constantly ON.
EDIT: OK success! I had to manually restart the scopw but it appears to have the OS 8.2 version now :-+
I thought that my scope did not autodetect the stick on startup, but when I manually restart the scope OS is now 8.2 :)
Why autosetup doesn't adjust 4 channels like agilent or tek?, four signals in this scope it has same vertical position.0V is the default position for all channels however with setting your personal User default you can have all manner of scope settings just as you like them.
Anyone else have a problem when choosing the trigger channel source ? Today I was changing trigger channel, in the trigger menu along the bottom of the screen, it says in a little box, CH1, and that on screen text stopped changing. The trigger itself still seems to change and work, but that text does not.A few things a missing from this report.....
On the upper right, the trigger info up there updates and changes. See in the picture, I chose CH2 in the menu, and it did it, but the little status box in the bottom still says CH1.
I rebooted, but never unpluged the standby pwr, and when I turned it back on, I seem to have the same problem.
I don't remember having this problem before, I might have pressed the button really fast earlier (Attachment Link)
Hi it's software version 6.1.35R2.............2 year old FW, 3 versions outta date. :-//
OK thanks, but that won't undo the BW hack right ?No.
Shame they couldn’t save the WiFi credentials😁:-//
No issues - WiFi is indeed working fine. Rock solid with static IP. My tongue-in-cheek comment alluded to the fact that my WiFi password is rather long and the input mechanism gets a bit tiresome. That’s me, not the CRO, or the many other devices in my house that use a similar HMI.Connected to a wired LAN using the scopes webserver, a PC mouse and virtual keyboard makes such tasks a doddle. ;)
New Firmware Version: V6.1.37R9
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12
Fixed the problem: The skew of the two ADCs is not accuracy for hardware of 09 version (System Status shows Hardware Version: 09-xx). The other hardware version has no this problem.New Firmware Version: V6.1.37R9
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12
What's new? It must be my broken English but I didn't understand much from the release note.
Fixed the problem: The skew of the two ADCs is not accuracy for hardware of 09 version (System Status shows Hardware Version: 09-xx). The other hardware version has no this problem.New Firmware Version: V6.1.37R9
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12
What's new? It must be my broken English but I didn't understand much from the release note.
Translation: New HW introduced due to component shortages introduced a skew between ADC's that is remedied with this new FW.
Fixed the problem: The skew of the two ADCs is not accuracy for hardware of 09 version (System Status shows Hardware Version: 09-xx). The other hardware version has no this problem.New Firmware Version: V6.1.37R9
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12
What's new? It must be my broken English but I didn't understand much from the release note.
Translation: New HW introduced due to component shortages introduced a skew between ADC's that is remedied with this new FW.
Maybe, maybe not. However it is clear from the the firmware notes there has been some minor HW change.Fixed the problem: The skew of the two ADCs is not accuracy for hardware of 09 version (System Status shows Hardware Version: 09-xx). The other hardware version has no this problem.New Firmware Version: V6.1.37R9
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12
What's new? It must be my broken English but I didn't understand much from the release note.
Translation: New HW introduced due to component shortages introduced a skew between ADC's that is remedied with this new FW.
Hello,
Thank you for the news !
My SDS1104X-E is 09-06 Hardware Version so I have just downloaded the file, then will upgrade mine :-+
(but I have not really understood the "skew between ADC" , have I different type of ADC in my model because of the shortages? ??? )
Edit: Upgrade OK, but the scope has deleted all my settings, so I have reloaded them from the "default" Button where I have saved them :D (and have also a copy on a little 4GB USB Stick)This must not happen !
I have done a recalibration after all that, without anything on the input :-+
This must not happen !
Please list each of the settings types deleted and I'll report this to Siglent.
Hi, I just found this big thread.Thought I'd let you search for a day or 2 only to find your answer was currently on P2 of the TE board:
I wonder if the hobbyist upgrade can be done after the V6.1.37R9 firmware, and where explains the steps to upgrade it.
Thank you.
Hi, I just found this big thread.Thought I'd let you search for a day or 2 only to find your answer was currently on P2 of the TE board:
I wonder if the hobbyist upgrade can be done after the V6.1.37R9 firmware, and where explains the steps to upgrade it.
Thank you.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/)
Focus only on finding the python method as it’s the safest.Hi, I just found this big thread.Thought I'd let you search for a day or 2 only to find your answer was currently on P2 of the TE board:
I wonder if the hobbyist upgrade can be done after the V6.1.37R9 firmware, and where explains the steps to upgrade it.
Thank you.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/)
Thank you so much. I still can't find it. Maybe a link?
I guess this kind of thread should keep updated the OP with the necessary info or at least an index to the relevant Replies.
I asked where are the steps because I found several times in other threads that the first posts were outdated and just close to the last post I found the correct solution.
I never did update my firmware's yet, on any of my Siglent gear.
I have 2-3 of the default probes, that must have a break in them somewhere, and sometimes the cables lose gnd, and other times just get weird in some positions.
So how hard is it to take them apart, and fix the crack or whatever, and fix it ? I just remembered they are not just ordinary coax.
But if I don't care about cutting 1 open , are they fairly easy to fix, like with solder, and glue, electric tape, maybe even tinfoil ???
Oooh, OS version 8.3. Anyone know what features this has over the previous version? I can't see any reference to minor OS revisions on the Siglent website.
Is anyone using the new counter function? It appears not to work the way I would expect--it gives you the option of selecting any active channel--and changes the color of the 'Frequency' annunciation to match, but won't actually indicate anything unless the trigger source is that channel. I'm not sure how that is a helpful feature...
I have an 1104-XE with the latest everything I believe. On the 4 channels 2-3-4 all are within 1 mV of zero with the input shorted gain max. However Ch1 is at +3 mV. I did a self cal and its the same afterwards as before. Is there an adjustment or something I need to do? Is this within tolerance? Its not very important, however only one channel seems to be afflicted so there may be more to this.
I have an 1104-XE with the latest everything I believe. On the 4 channels 2-3-4 all are within 1 mV of zero with the input shorted gain max. However Ch1 is at +3 mV. I did a self cal and its the same afterwards as before. Is there an adjustment or something I need to do? Is this within tolerance? Its not very important, however only one channel seems to be afflicted so there may be more to this.
I did not realize the channel was set for a 10X probe when I sent the original note.
I followed the suggested process which cleaned up the offsets (at least down the the noise level). Picture attached. I'm not sure what had left the offset but its essentially gone. Ch 2 has a little offset but not enough to be concerned.
Can someone confirm my suspicion (based on manuals) that the SDS1000X-E series does _not_ allow users to dim the overall LCD brightness?
Looks to me like SDS2000X+ or HD would deliver the ability to dial back the brightness
If by overall brightness you mean the backlight, then AFAIK no. There are other adjustments that seem sufficient and I've never, ever felt the need to try and reduce the brightness on this scope. The background is mostly black and there is an intensity control for the traces.
Can someone confirm my suspicion (based on manuals) that the SDS1000X-E series does _not_ allow users to dim the overall LCD brightness?
Looks to me like SDS2000X+ or HD would deliver the ability to dial back the brightness, but not the SDS1000X-E... idk whether I'll ever hear back from yday morning's emails to info@ & sales-usa@ but prime day prices are near the end...
(IMO LCDs sans dimming should be outlawed.)
OK so you have a LCD edge bleed problem do you ? In some early models we had the odd problem with this however to know if yours really has a problem we need pics from normal viewing angles.If by overall brightness you mean the backlight, then AFAIK no. There are other adjustments that seem sufficient and I've never, ever felt the need to try and reduce the brightness on this scope. The background is mostly black and there is an intensity control for the traces.
Useful info for most, but in this case there's backlight bleed + contrast edge bleed that are filtered out by most brains, but astigmatism thwarts that filter, sometimes on its own, but especially when amplified by other visual sensitivities. "Ever endure a video shot by someone oblivious to how greasy their camera lens is? Like that."
(or so I'm told...)
OK so you have a LCD edge bleed problem do you ?
Was just trying to sort out whether the SDS1000X-E series allowed for overall (backlight) dimming like the bigger siblings have.No they don't as seen in the Display setting menu above however study of the first 2 screenshots give some idea of the display changes you can make with just trace and graticule brightness and transparency with the last screenshot being close to my preferred settings.
Please share more about 'troublesome for those with certain eyeball and/or neurological differences' for the designers to consider for existing and future products. :popcorn:
Discussing sensory phenomenology (ineffable by definition) seems a bit futile and truly I've gotta wonder if you're having a laugh.
Certainly not, do you expect the EE's that design this stuff to be optical experts, I don't and hence I asked for some guidance as I well know they can read English. ;)Quote from: tautechPlease share more about 'troublesome for those with certain eyeball and/or neurological differences' for the designers to consider for existing and future products. :popcorn:
Discussing sensory phenomenology (ineffable by definition) seems a bit futile and truly I've gotta wonder if you're having a laugh.
Aside from that backlight request, basic consideration of the common (two?) variants of color blindness would probably be good practice. It doesn't help me in particular but I'm not just on a quest to self-serve.The higher range siblings do account for a vast array of display combinations to suit most any want or fashion in the Display menu as these pics I posted long ago in another thread demonstrate:
Certainly not, do you expect the EE's that design this stuff to be optical experts, I don't and hence I asked for some guidance as I well know they can read English. ;)
Hi Folks,Welcome to the forum and check your messages with our contact details so to fix this scope for you.
I've got an SDS1104X-E, stock OS 8.1 and FW 6.1.25R2 (if I remember correctly) that won't go past boot screen.
I've made several attempts at the powerup while tapping the MATH button "2 - 3 times a second" - no success. Probably no surprise I'm REALLY hoping there's a few other tricks I can try before sending off for warranty repair.
Is it reasonable/safe for me to try
1) prepping a USB drive with an OS update
2) Can I feed the web server an ADS file
Nothing particularly crazy done to it. About a year ago, I added ntpd using a method similar to what wpwrak described here
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1812089/#msg1812089 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1812089/#msg1812089)
Yesterday I was contemplating a change that I ultimately decided to leave well enough alone. I can't rule out having started into it and set /usr/bin/siglent as rw before I decided to not bother. So, there's a chance it never got switched back to ro. Would have said it went through one reboot since then, but I left it running overnight and used it most of today before I rebooted and got here.
Here's more excruciating details in case any of it's useful:
- I get Siglent logo on screen and keys lit up (Run/Stop is orange, so R+G LEDs) for about 8 seconds, then they all turn off for half a second and all come back on. (With a proper bootup, after blanking, I'm used to seeing the channel buttons light up in sequence). I've let it sit for a few hours, no change.
+ Scope gets IP from DHCP server
+ Scope responds to ICMP pings
- SCPI and SOCKET ports 5024 and 5025 refuse connections
+ Web server is working, but
- SCPI commands fail ("*IDN?" gets a "Device can not be connected" response)
- On Information section, "Instrument Model", "Software Version" and "Serial Number" are all empty
- Instrument Control section just shows that spiffy Siglent logo
+ I can expand the controls section and the "Version Update" button appears to work
+ "Screen Save" and "Bin_to_CSV_Tool" buttons are functional, but not sure how much behind the web server are actually active.
- "Waveform Save" obviously does NOT work.
+ if I put a USB drive in the front or back USB ports, once the logo is displaying, the drive does show activity as though it's being enumerated, and maybe files system is being checked.
- I have a thumb drive with a "siglent_device_startup.sh" to launch telnetd, but this appears to do nothing.
Thanks
...I've made several attempts at the powerup while tapping the MATH button "2 - 3 times a second" - no success. Probably no surprise I'm REALLY hoping there's a few other tricks I can try before sending off for warranty repair...
See here:...I've made several attempts at the powerup while tapping the MATH button "2 - 3 times a second" - no success. Probably no surprise I'm REALLY hoping there's a few other tricks I can try before sending off for warranty repair...
Never heard about that MATH button tapping. What's it for?...
Any other secret key combinations to be aware of?Lots but sorry can't share.
Welcome to the forum and check your messages with our contact details so to fix this scope for you.
Don't try/use any other method than using the tools Siglent provide to us.
Thanks tautech, that did the trick and I'm back in business. Thanks for the assistance! :-+
Yep, same as mine running latest OS and FW, see PC screenshot below.Thanks tautech, that did the trick and I'm back in business. Thanks for the assistance! :-+
I've got one abstract follow-up: the web interface now shows
LXI Extended Functions null
LXI Version 1.5 LXI Core 2017
I'm going from memory, but pretty sure before the scope was out-to-lunch, the "LXI Extended Functions" had non-null info and "LXI Version" was something "1.5.x Core 2019". Curious why those are now different. Is this not contained in the OS/FW? A setting somewhere I'm overlooking.
Background: With the unbricked scope, I'm finishing some data collection where I want no doubts of consistency. I've got some scripted SCPI for automation, and I rely on some saved setups. Might be silly, but not interested in chasing differences in support functionality etc. between FW versions, so following recovery I "restored" OS to 8.1 and FW to 6.1.35R2 (I mispoke citing 6.1.25R2 as the FW ver in my earlier post).
When I step up my SCPI / LXI game, which will include a upgrade to V2 OS and current FW, how do I ensure there's nothing missing here?
Cheers!
[...]
Even EDUMODE shouldn't be shared on a public forum. :-X
No, but students read the blog so we don't really need them knowing how to use or cancel such commands to shag around with their schools setups.[...]
Even EDUMODE shouldn't be shared on a public forum. :-X
That's interesting. Is there an NDA that applies to "EDUMODE" or, barring that, any way those w/ access to the feature(s) to be aware of this prohibition?
Hi thereIt's like a POST test but if you don't like it in Utilities you can turn the sound OFF. Use Default and it will be back unless you make your personal Default settings and save then using the Set to Default feature in the Save/Recall menu.
Can anyone explain the meaning of the beep when starting the SDS 1104X-E?
My device sometimes beeps twice at startup? (Firmware version: V6.1.35R2)
Some notes from using the scope (SDS 1104X-E 6.1.37R9).It doesn't need to be.
B) Probe attenuation settings is more involved than needed. The procedure to change from 10x to 1x is:
............
I forgot this:Can be if you have the Acquire menu visible when the screenshot is taken.
E) Current acquisition modes (Normal, Peak Detect, Average nnn, Eres b) are not shown. They should be visible in screenshots for documentation purposes.
Some notes from using the scope (SDS 1104X-E 6.1.37R9).It doesn't need to be.
B) Probe attenuation settings is more involved than needed. The procedure to change from 10x to 1x is:
............
If starting at 1x (Factory Default), select channel and on P1 is the input attenuation menu that you can just keep tapping the button to increment to the correct attenuation needed.
When checking, channel assigning and compensating probes for every scope you sell you get pretty darn quick at this. ;)
I forgot this:Can be if you have the Acquire menu visible when the screenshot is taken.
E) Current acquisition modes (Normal, Peak Detect, Average nnn, Eres b) are not shown. They should be visible in screenshots for documentation purposes.
For deep record of how these are configured you can also save a Setup to USB as Siglent recently asked me to do when working through an issue we were having with a new instrument.
Upon them receiving it and uploading it into their instrument my settings were replicated.
Some notes from using the scope (SDS 1104X-E 6.1.37R9).
A) Measure with statistics on: counts and statistic values should be automatically reset when changing time base or channel gain, without the need to press Clear Sweeps every time. Otherwise the shown statistics would be meaningless and possibly misleading.
C) Entering values with the GP knob often is quite complicated and error prone, and the knob press is not always reliable - but that is. Neverthless in many cases it would be helpful to assign the default value to a long press of the knob.
I forgot this:
E) Current acquisition modes (Normal, Peak Detect, Average nnn, Eres b) are not shown. They should be visible in screenshots for documentation purposes.
A side note.
I purchased the SDS1104X-E to compliment an old LeCroy (4ch, 1GHz, 8 GSa/s, 16 Mpts, excellent analog front-end and a good assortment of passive, active, current and differential probes). But the device is very heavy and takeoff-like noisy, so I'd like to have a modern unit with lesser features but more handy (and it is). I also have handheld Fluke (100MHz) and Agilent (200 MHz, which I don't like). Good for field work (rare for me) and great for their isolated channels, but again the SDS fits most of my needs better (and, TBH, should it blow up, I'd cry for less time, so a little less concerns when touching higher voltages).
Actually I had also considered the SDS2104X-HD, but for its kind of price I chose not to take the risk: I had a previous bad experience with another cheap CN scope (a "known" firm I won't disclose) having good features on paper but a PITA to use. Based on my brief positive experience with this Siglent scope, probably I would have opted for the SDS2k HD (ok, maybe I would have thought about it a little longer, given the almost 6x price).
just a crazy idea - has anyone thought of creating a small box with some switches on the front that connects to the scope via ethernet or USB and sends SCPI commands to do things like change probe attenuation settings in response to the user pressing the buttons?Yours and luciof's comments have me thinking.......
while a proof-of-concept may be highly complicated, a 'final design' might be something as simple as a RPi single-board computer. if you could talk to the HTML API, it may even be possible to emulate turning knobs on the scope. and if commands could be sent to the scope application via the serial console (with a little soldering) the implemention could be as trivial as a arduino or similar.
cheers,
rob :-)
As you may be aware I'm quite familiar with this scope however it never does any harm to spend a few minutes in front of one again with a open mind forgetting the familiarity you have with it and eyeballing it more critically.Some notes from using the scope (SDS 1104X-E 6.1.37R9).It doesn't need to be.
B) Probe attenuation settings is more involved than needed. The procedure to change from 10x to 1x is:
............
If starting at 1x (Factory Default), select channel and on P1 is the input attenuation menu that you can just keep tapping the button to increment to the correct attenuation needed.
When checking, channel assigning and compensating probes for every scope you sell you get pretty darn quick at this. ;)
Well, I'm not sure I fully understood your reply. After assigning a probe to each channel and compensating it, I'm done (this is a one-time operation). But then, while using the scope, I often need to change the Attenuation Factor many times.
Example: I'm probing at 10x, then enter Bode Plot using BNC 50 ohm cables etc. for impedance matching, start plotting and see an unexpected 20 dB deviation. Oops... Exit BP, then change from 10x to 1x each involved channel (this require the full 6-point procedure, no shortcuts; going from 10x to 1x requires the knob, because repeated tapping is way too long: the 20 items list can only be scrolled downwards with the button).
Another frequent case: working on low frequency, low voltage circuits is often convenient to switch the probes from 1x to 10x or viceversa (or even using DVM leads thru a BNC-banana adapter), but i like keeping the right amplitude readouts, so to avoid trivial mistakes and/or for taking proper screenshots; so, the correct Attenuator Factor settings are preferred and it would be nice to be able to select them as quickly and simply as possible (IMHO, this is not the case right now).
Of course, this can be done anyway, but a faster (and maybe more... clean?) procedure would help to not disrupt the workflow when deeply focused on a problem.
Actually I had also considered the SDS2104X-HD, but for its kind of price I chose not to take the risk: I had a previous bad experience with another cheap CN scope (a "known" firm I won't disclose) having good features on paper but a PITA to use. Based on my brief positive experience with this Siglent scope, probably I would have opted for the SDS2k HD (ok, maybe I would have thought about it a little longer, given the almost 6x price).Yes the HD is a major step in outlay over these 4ch X-E's as is the X Plus but at $1400 they are a lot more palatable.
To cut a long story short, we do have no shortage on complaints, wishes and suggestions. Many of them have become reality with time, but certainly not all of them. There are conflicting requests – one user dislikes exactly the one feature that another user has strongly requested – or also unrealistic requests, like expecting high-end features (not found anywhere else) in a cheap entry level device.
Based on simple deduction 1x, 10x and 100x would be the obvious choices for dedicated buttons and if another was to be considered what would it be ? :popcorn:
For those that know this scope more than most maybe a fast access and previously saved User Custom setting ?
I have a related suggestion. One of the limitations of all in one scopes is both the number of controls and the need for the controls to be colocated with the display. This was essential in the old days of analog scopes where the knob controlled switches mechanically. I would like to have a separate control on a cable that can be more conveniently located in the workspace. I got this gadget https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08V95ZZLM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08V95ZZLM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) initially to provide a volume control for my monitor. I'm not a fan of buttons for volume. Looking at it I think software could be crafted to use it to control the attenuators and timebase pretty easily since they are all software controlled.Not that I'm a coder in any way or form :scared: however what you propose is a novel idea and with a little code crafting to use the Siglent SCPI command set that little box could certainly be used in conjunction with a PC to push the SCPI commands into the scope to enable basic operation, basic being the key word.
Based on simple deduction 1x, 10x and 100x would be the obvious choices for dedicated buttons and if another was to be considered what would it be ? :popcorn:
Due to fact that 1x 10x change is most typical in normal common use. All others are much more rare if look all users commonly.Certainly any simple and elegant remedy is welcomed.
I think this example would work quite well as a quick setup. No need do more sophisticated and complex. Poor and simple but works for "99.97%" of use cases.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=1575202;image)
To cut a long story short, we do have no shortage on complaints, wishes and suggestions. Many of them have become reality with time, but certainly not all of them. There are conflicting requests – one user dislikes exactly the one feature that another user has strongly requested – or also unrealistic requests, like expecting high-end features (not found anywhere else) in a cheap entry level device.
Yes, I'm sure about that; plus, more features cause more complaints than cheers.
I'm aware that my views are somewhat biased, neverthless I think they deserve some thought even if not important enough to be implemented.
After some checks for a friend that required 'must have file timestamps' for portable use where a LAN or WiFi connection may not be available for the NTP time server Manual Sync or Sync on boot the not so plainly obvious solution needed be checked before advise could be offered.
So simple......everyone has a smartphone right ?
Gotcha !After some checks for a friend that required 'must have file timestamps' for portable use where a LAN or WiFi connection may not be available for the NTP time server Manual Sync or Sync on boot the not so plainly obvious solution needed be checked before advise could be offered.
So simple......everyone has a smartphone right ?
Sounds like more of a fiend than a friend. ::)
Anyway, in the method described above you are still connecting to the NTP server to synchronize the time no different than if you were using a wired or wireless internet connection. To my understanding the SDS-1104XE does not have an onboard real time clock yet has a menu to enter the current date and time, perhaps yours friends question was does the unit increment time once it is set in a stand alone application without any form of internet connection?
I found a bug in that the most forward year that can be set is 2037
...the default 1970 time.
When multiples channels are used the topmost is always the channel assigned/selected to be controlled.
Does this not happen ?
Have you tried adjusting the settings in the Display menu to gain transparency through the Ref trace ?Yes, to no avail... No matter what level of Intensity or Transparence I select, REF1 is stone solid and on top of all channels.
When multiples channels are used the topmost is always the channel assigned/selected to be controlled.
Does this not happen ?
Upon further analysis:When multiples channels are used the topmost is always the channel assigned/selected to be controlled.
Does this not happen ?
Yes, channels 1, 2 3 & 4 act like that but once any REF channel is selected, it sits on top of the normal ones, no matter which one gets assigned/selected.
ASMOF, different REF channels also act as you said, that is, the selected REF channel sits on top of the other REF channels but they're all always on top of the normal channels. This is counterintuitive and not very useful I'm afraid ::)
As the Ref waveform is like no other for this scope, please share this designer thinking ? :-//Upon further analysis:When multiples channels are used the topmost is always the channel assigned/selected to be controlled.
Does this not happen ?
Yes, channels 1, 2 3 & 4 act like that but once any REF channel is selected, it sits on top of the normal ones, no matter which one gets assigned/selected.
ASMOF, different REF channels also act as you said, that is, the selected REF channel sits on top of the other REF channels but they're all always on top of the normal channels. This is counterintuitive and not very useful I'm afraid ::)
Somehow I understand designer thinking about this reference priority on screen but just as you told it is not optimal in some cases if example really need this kind of reference you displayed. So perhaps it is better user can select also this or example set transparency.
Tautech, while rf-loop answers your question, have you experienced this same REF waves behaviour? I want to know if this is a problem with my SDS1104X-E or is it a FW problem.No bug, this is intended behaviour and like you I ask why ?
In other words: a bug ::)
It makes no sense that any Ref waveform cannot be transparent if/when the user requires it so ? .../... Before we ask Siglent to make changes we need more feedback. :popcorn:
Is the probe compensated correctly ?
Here you are(excuse my FY-6800):Is the probe compensated correctly ?
No probe connected, just BNC cable to the AWG.
Can somebody please check the same with the SDS1104X-E and an AWG? Just a square wave as shown in the picture with 100Hz, 3Vpp. Would like to know if this is just my device or others show similar waveforms.
Hello,
my SDS1104X-E seems to struggle to display square waves with low frequency correctly. There is a slight slope which is not there when looking with my other scope. Is this normal or just my device? Waveform is a square wave with 100Hz, 3Vpp and 1.5V offset generated by AWG of SDS2354X+.
Regarding the square wave issue, my SDS1104X-E (hacked) shows the same as yours but the no-input / AC-coupling seems a bit better.What firmware are you at? I'm running 8.3.6.1.37R9.
Exactly the same FW than yours!Mine is 09-06. I wonder if that would account for it?
HW Version: 01-05
tautech(see a few of posts above) is following the thread, and if he finds problems, will report to Siglent. PM him to be sure.Exactly the same FW than yours!Mine is 09-06. I wonder if that would account for it?
HW Version: 01-05
Does anyone know if there is a process for making Siglent aware of these issues?
For those that had acceptable offset in AC coupling, have you done the 200MHz BW "improvement"?
For those that had acceptable offset in AC coupling, have you done the 200MHz BW "improvement"?
I still didn't order a logic analyzer, I'm sure an Arduino project can handle all I need for now.Use the dual timebase Zoom feature.
But what's the right way to capture serial data with a sds1104x-e ? All I've been doing is switching to Decode and choosing a protocol. And also in the trigger menu, choosing the serial protocol. And then just doing single capture with the time-offset to the far left.
And that's ok for short signals, but when the clock speed is very fast, and there's big delays in the data or a lot of data, soon using single capture, you have the the timebase so large that you lose the detail at the serial clock time base.
Is that the right way to do it, and can you record big long serial data streams to a flashdrive or PC ?
The 1980's MSO's must not have had much memory recording / capturing.
I reached out to Siglent about these issues a few days ago. Still no response from them. I'll update if I hear anything from them.Forgot to update this. I was trying to contact Siglent the wrong way. When I went to the the Siglent NA website and filled out a service request, they got back to me in less than 2 hours. Amazing service. I also got help from tautech. :-+
Any ideas from the forum experts?I don't claim to be an expert but I've updated all my Siglent equipment, some more than once, and never had a problem. It could be the file on the EU site is corrupt. You might try downloading the update from the NA site and see if that works better.
This is interesting...It don't.
When I copied the entire file contents to the USB stick, in a folder with the same name as downloaded, then the upgrade finally worked!
Why does the scope need the two pdf files?
I reached out to Siglent about these issues a few days ago. Still no response from them. I'll update if I hear anything from them.Forgot to update this. I was trying to contact Siglent the wrong way. When I went to the the Siglent NA website and filled out a service request, they got back to me in less than 2 hours. Amazing service. I also got help from tautech. :-+
I'm considering a Siglent SDS1204XE with a SDG2042X AWG. Does it sound better to buy through Amazon or through highly rated Tequipment?Welcome to the forum.
Are Saelig the retail arm of Siglent NA, or a fully separate entity?mwb1000 is quite correct and additionally Siglent NA run their own online shop and also sell through Amazon as vendor Siglent Technologies although only a few of their products are offered via Amazon.
My last oscilloscope had display problems and the manufacturer, even in China, did not respond to my emails. :box: They knew that this problem could not be solved...Name and shame the reseller please.
This display problem was not a software problem but a hardware design flaw.
But this oscilloscope broke down and the importer was forced to accept the return to his workshop (free return costs).
I asked for a refund for this device that I had had for 1 year. :-+
Making the importer listen to reason was not easy, imagine what would have happened if I had bought my oscilloscope from a store that did not offer support.
Now I have another Chinese oscilloscope purchased from an authorized distributor near me. :)
I bought a brand new SDS1104X-E - are they supposed to come with the screen protector that you have to peel off? Mine didn't. Just wondering.
I bought a brand new SDS1104X-E - are they supposed to come with the screen protector that you have to peel off? Mine didn't. Just wondering.
No. What protector this real glass surface need in this case. Just no any reason to add it. It is very different case if surface is just naked TFT plastic surface as in some monitors etc.
Without firing up mine I'm sure there's a cancel, try Run/Stop.
Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?Only because you are not downloading it and opening the OS Revision History PDF.
Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients :)
Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?Only because you are not downloading it and opening the OS Revision History PDF.
Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients :)
It states:
The hardware was updated to version of 09(). The OS was also updated to version of 3 to support this new hardware.
If SDS1xx4X-E hardware has version below 09, you don’t need to update SDS1xx4X-E OS.
Are you questioning my eyesight ?Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?Only because you are not downloading it and opening the OS Revision History PDF.
Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients :)
It states:
The hardware was updated to version of 09(). The OS was also updated to version of 3 to support this new hardware.
If SDS1xx4X-E hardware has version below 09, you don’t need to update SDS1xx4X-E OS.
Have you seen the date next to it?
Are you questioning my eyesight ?Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?Only because you are not downloading it and opening the OS Revision History PDF.
Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients :)
It states:
The hardware was updated to version of 09(). The OS was also updated to version of 3 to support this new hardware.
If SDS1xx4X-E hardware has version below 09, you don’t need to update SDS1xx4X-E OS.
Have you seen the date next to it?
The date is "2022/5/27" and the update was uploaded a couple of days ago.Does not surprise me. That date would represent when the final version of the code for the new hardware was completed.
Thank you Siglent, You build in a feature requests and don't even make note of it.. :-DD
There was a uprising amount of stuff added, its about 3MB extra on the main application alone.
We have all new Bode Plot SCPI commands :-+
BODE:SW BODE:SWITCH Query / Command
BODE:AWG Query / Command
BODE:STIM BODE:STIMULUS Command
BODE:SWP BODE:SWEEP Command
BODE:SWP:EDIT BODE:SWEEP:EDIT Command
BODE:DUT Command
BODE:OPER BODE:OPERATE Command
BODE:DIS:APM BODE:DISPLAY:APM Command
BODE:DIS:PHA BODE:DISPLAY:PHA Command
BODE:DIS:ASET BODE:DISPLAY:ASET Command
BODE:DIS:CRS BODE:DISPLAY:CRS Command
BODE:DATA Command
Some new probe commands that hint at digital probes
C1:POffs Command / Query
C1:PDAC Command / Query
C1:PDelta Command / Query
C1:PIntc C1:PIntercept Command / Query
C1:PCali C1:ProbeCalibrate Command / Query
C1:PInfo C1:ProbeInfo Command / Query
C1:ProbeSN
C1:PType C1:ProbeType
C1:PRes C1:ProbeRes
C1:PCap C1:ProbeCap
C1:PBW C1:ProbeBW
C1:PGain C1:ProbeGain
And just way too much new stuff around decoders and triggering for me to dig through tonight, its about 4 pages worth of commands, more or less breaking out every available settings, Good work devs,
Thank you Siglent, You build in a feature requests and don't even make note of it.. :-DD
There was a uprising amount of stuff added, its about 3MB extra on the main application alone.
We have all new Bode Plot SCPI commands :-+
BODE:SW BODE:SWITCH Query / Command
BODE:AWG Query / Command
BODE:STIM BODE:STIMULUS Command
BODE:SWP BODE:SWEEP Command
BODE:SWP:EDIT BODE:SWEEP:EDIT Command
BODE:DUT Command
BODE:OPER BODE:OPERATE Command
BODE:DIS:APM BODE:DISPLAY:APM Command
BODE:DIS:PHA BODE:DISPLAY:PHA Command
BODE:DIS:ASET BODE:DISPLAY:ASET Command
BODE:DIS:CRS BODE:DISPLAY:CRS Command
BODE:DATA Command
Some new probe commands that hint at digital probes
C1:POffs Command / Query
C1:PDAC Command / Query
C1:PDelta Command / Query
C1:PIntc C1:PIntercept Command / Query
C1:PCali C1:ProbeCalibrate Command / Query
C1:PInfo C1:ProbeInfo Command / Query
C1:ProbeSN
C1:PType C1:ProbeType
C1:PRes C1:ProbeRes
C1:PCap C1:ProbeCap
C1:PBW C1:ProbeBW
C1:PGain C1:ProbeGain
And just way too much new stuff around decoders and triggering for me to dig through tonight, its about 4 pages worth of commands, more or less breaking out every available settings, Good work devs,
Just a small tip as to how to get root access the easiest on the SDS1104X-E
This works on the latest Uboot 8.3 and 6.1.37R9 firmware
Simply put the two scripts I attached on the root of your USB stick, the scope will automatically open up a root telnet on port 9999 while booting.
When in telnet, you can use the remount.sh script to change the USB from r/o to r/w.
Don't forget to remove the file after playing around, we don't want exposed root shells on the network!
But to cover myself, I of course take no responsibility for any damage that may occur to the user or the scope by using my script.
I hope this can help some people who didn't have success flashing a custom Uboot ^^
Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?Only because you are not downloading it and opening the OS Revision History PDF.
Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients :)
It states:
The hardware was updated to version of 09(). The OS was also updated to version of 3 to support this new hardware.
If SDS1xx4X-E hardware has version below 09, you don’t need to update SDS1xx4X-E OS.
Hi folks, are there are some teardowns from `SDS1204X-E` ?
...
Red is `SDS1202X-E`, green is `SDS1104X-E`. ...
Also mine which is SDS1104X-e with HW 09-06 is showing very strange results with 200Mhz square wave signal (I know it is out of spec) and too much attenuation and I don't think that the frontend is capable of 200Mhz or is limited in the 09-06 version.
Also mine which is SDS1104X-e with HW 09-06 is showing very strange results with 200Mhz square wave signal (I know it is out of spec) and too much attenuation and I don't think that the frontend is capable of 200Mhz or is limited in the 09-06 version.Mine is an 09-06. I've done the license upgrade to 200MHz and it's within 3dB out past 230MHz as the 1.49 ns rise time will attest. I believe others have even gotten a bit better.
This may not be entirely true. SDS1104X-E is currently sold in 2 different HW versions - 01-05 and 09-06, so there will be some differences.
So far I can't find pictures of the newer HW version.
Also mine which is SDS1104X-e with HW 09-06 is showing very strange results with 200Mhz square wave signal (I know it is out of spec) and too much attenuation and I don't think that the frontend is capable of 200Mhz or is limited in the 09-06 version.
Thank you for your answers!
Especially about different HW révisions.
Just a little about the purpose of the scope i'm looking for: to test pocket AB amps i wanna make for fun, check if power is clean also and do some fun with uart. Nothing professional, just a hobby fun.
In Siglent i appreciate features like 4 channels, 1GSa/s per group, pretty fast waveforms/s aaand FFT (which looks good after the reviews i've seen), slow on 1Mpts but it's 1Mpts, so noise is lower and more details. I say again, it's for audio freq & for "excited" AB chips (which could do 20MHz or 30MHz in theory if i screw the schematic).
Also for the other fun cases i've seen that with scope and some math you can check C, L and electronic components (but i have testers also). I wanna enjoy it in my 36.
So my fun budget is 500-600€, and i agree with Dave (from YouTube), that 1k will be overkill for my needs. Also, compared to "same" rigols siglent more sensitive.
Next about hacks: 100MHz is okey for me, i don't need 200MHz, also i don't need 16digit channels (just 4 analog) and don't need generator cause i can make my own (w/ scope) or buy any other brand. But i want 100MHz i'm paying for. So here we speak about the hack and the screenshot from the review.
Why the hek 100MHz have -1dB at 75MHz?.. i can't get in. 200MHz model is cool at 200MHz and you pay for 200MHz, but when you buy 100MHz you don't pay 50MHz scope or 75MHz scope. So if it's pure software crap, well, i will hack that FIR config and enjoy my 100MHz scope.
If the frontend is different and poor, well, i will enjoy nothing and lose factory calibration (seen these comments in topic) which was made for 100MHz scope.
So, did actual SDS1104X-E have poor front (or the other parts) compared to SDS1204X-E or it's just software "issues"? I've seen siglent folks in thread also, if they have no NDA, it could be good to know simple "no bruh, it's just software" or "yeah, don't even try to get real numbers with latest 1104 models at 80-90MHz".
Before i was targeting MSO5074, hacked, sure, to get 100MHz, but 8Gsa/s it's total overkill for me (again i'm agree w/ Dave).
Why the hek 100MHz have -1dB at 75MHz?.. i can't get in.
The reason is of course that the artificial bandwidth limit is accomplished by a FIR-filter that is not Gaussian. Those who ask why we don't choose a filter characteristics that has even less (ideally zero) drop up to the corner frequency should learn about the requirements for an oscilloscope frontend, ...
...especially group delay.
A "flat-top" frequency response comes at the cost of more overshoot in the step response. It's a trade-off.Right. And knowing all this, how much overshoot do you think is acceptable so that we still can have a decent signal fidelity? It is - or at least should be - the goal for every serious oscilloscope to show the actual signal at its input, not the imperfections of its frontend.
An ideal Gaussian filter has the nice property of having no overshoot in the step response while minimizing the rise and fall time.
With a (symmetrical) FIR filter, frequency-dependent group delay is actually not an issue -- any symmetrical FIR filter is linear phase.Correct. The frontend has a certain frequency response itself, which we can see for the highest bandwidth model, such as the SDS1204X-E. Even the 200 MHz model will have more than 0 dB drop at 75 MHz, even with a perfectly flat FIR filter behind. Furthermore, there is no intention to have a vastly different frequency response characteristics for the lower bandwidth models, even when the bandwidth is limited by an FIR filter.
Have you upgraded it to 200MHz? And where are you getting a 200MHz square wave? If you want to test the front-end capabilites you'll need to use a clean sine wave or perhaps a fast edge at a much lower frequency.It is not upgraded.
Maybe you could take a screen shot and show us what you are seeing.I'll provide more information when I do more and proper measurements.
To look at 200MHz squarewave you need 1GHz + scope... 2GHz even better..I was trying to find the limits of my new toy and noticed some strange behavior. But as I said - will provide more info when I'm sure in the results.
Explanation and reference please...?
BillyO which screenshots ? Here is the tread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/)Sorry, I thought you were actually seeing all this poor performance. But I guess you are just imagining it?
BillyO which screenshots ? Here is the tread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/)Sorry, I thought you were actually seeing all this poor performance. But I guess you are just imagining it?
As I said above, with the 200MHz enabled, you will not have any issues with bandwidth.
Hi allCheck attached PDF to see if you actually need to install OS V3.
I don't seem to be able to update my 1104 to OS3. I tried with several USB sticks but nothing happens. OS is still listed at 8.2. Yes, I know there is probably little gain in going to 3 but that's another story!
Can anybody help me please?
Thanks
Tony
Yeah, that was my comment about the little gain in updating. Still, why is it not updating?I had the same with my prerelease SDS1104X-E and OS V2 yet the features the new FW and OS supported did work.
Yeah, that was my comment about the little gain in updating. Still, why is it not updating?
Is your scope System Status showing Hardware revision 09-xx ??
A little help for the newbie that I am.What is your hardware version? I'm pretty sure OS3 is only for 09-06.
I can't switch to OS3, here is my config:
Software Version : 6.1.37R9
Uboot-OS Version : 8.2
FPGA Version : 1.4
What am I not understanding?
What can I upgrade?
Thanks for your help
Hi, may someone able to explain me,Correct.
I have SDS1104x-E and there is no AutoSetup menu only the Autosetup button,
If activated the Autosetup it adjust the scope onece and after no adjustment but the AUTOSETUP visible in the left bottom corner on the screen.
So if changing the Amplitude or frequency the scope not follow that. (is it normal? my previous OWON follow the signal)
Thansk
Hi folks, got today by SDS1104XE ;D
It was calibrated in december 2022.
1 probe from 4 have contact issues. I contacted support to ask a newone (w/ a video).
They are warrantied for 1 year so claim a warranty replacement from your supplier.Hi folks, got today by SDS1104XE ;D
It was calibrated in december 2022.
1 probe from 4 have contact issues. I contacted support to ask a newone (w/ a video).
I've got the same scope, same HW/OS versions, half a year earlier than yours and exactly the same issue: one of the probes is having issues with the 1x/10x switch ::)
If activated the Autosetup it adjust the scope onece and after no adjustment but the AUTOSETUP visible in the left bottom corner on the screen.Correct.
So if changing the Amplitude or frequency the scope not follow that. (is it normal? my previous OWON follow the signal)
Thansk
These DSO's are designed with the mind that the operator must be in charge of the scope not the other way around.
Either press Auto Setup again or learn how to master the use of the scope, it's not really difficult but instead very rewarding.
Nope! I've got an SDS1104X-E with Hardware Version 01-05 and OS 8.3 from factory:
Sorry, we're not talking the same thing.If activated the Autosetup it adjust the scope onece and after no adjustment but the AUTOSETUP visible in the left bottom corner on the screen.Correct.
So if changing the Amplitude or frequency the scope not follow that. (is it normal? my previous OWON follow the signal)
Thansk
These DSO's are designed with the mind that the operator must be in charge of the scope not the other way around.
Either press Auto Setup again or learn how to master the use of the scope, it's not really difficult but instead very rewarding.
I checked on mine and it's not "correct" at least the way I understand.
Yes, after the auto-setup you only have one "go back" button at the bottom but
- Amplitude and frequency do work on mine
- You can press any other button and it will retain the auto-setup settings but take you back to the normal screen.
Are you saying that after running an auto-setup your amplitude and frequency knobs don't work?
If activated the Autosetup it adjust the scope onece and after no adjustment but the AUTOSETUP visible in the left bottom corner on the screen.Correct.
So if changing the Amplitude or frequency the scope not follow that. (is it normal? my previous OWON follow the signal)
Thansk
These DSO's are designed with the mind that the operator must be in charge of the scope not the other way around.
Either press Auto Setup again or learn how to master the use of the scope, it's not really difficult but instead very rewarding.
I checked on mine and it's not "correct" at least the way I understand.
Yes, after the auto-setup you only have one "go back" button at the bottom but
- Amplitude and frequency do work on mine
- You can press any other button and it will retain the auto-setup settings but take you back to the normal screen.
Are you saying that after running an auto-setup your amplitude and frequency knobs don't work?
Yes, that's exactly what I took from it too but why would designers have the scope devote resources from just being a scope ? Maybe his meaning was not clear. :-//If activated the Autosetup it adjust the scope onece and after no adjustment but the AUTOSETUP visible in the left bottom corner on the screen.Correct.
So if changing the Amplitude or frequency the scope not follow that. (is it normal? my previous OWON follow the signal)
Thansk
These DSO's are designed with the mind that the operator must be in charge of the scope not the other way around.
Either press Auto Setup again or learn how to master the use of the scope, it's not really difficult but instead very rewarding.
I checked on mine and it's not "correct" at least the way I understand.
Yes, after the auto-setup you only have one "go back" button at the bottom but
- Amplitude and frequency do work on mine
- You can press any other button and it will retain the auto-setup settings but take you back to the normal screen.
Are you saying that after running an auto-setup your amplitude and frequency knobs don't work?
I misunderstood patrik96 post at first, but then realised that what he meant was that once the Autosetup button is pressed, it only acts on the current signal input. If you adjust the input signal or alter the timebase or amplitude controls on the scope, it will not adjust for the best display, despite "AUTOSET" being displayed on the screen.
It seems like his previous Owon scope tracked the signal for best display while the Autosetup was still activated, without having to press the button again.
...I guess it could be useful for some specific signals. It actually looks nicely implemented on that scope.
Would I use it? Maybe, on some occasions I wished my scope didn't constantly require adjustments when changing signals. One scenario I'm thinking about is when I cannot physically reach out to the scope because both my hands are holding probes/boards/wires...
Indeed the OWON has this interesting feature called "autoscale", which is separate from the autoset.
https://youtu.be/Wn-WZlTMTkc?t=173
I guess it could be useful for some specific signals. It actually looks nicely implemented on that scope.
Would I use it? Maybe, on some occasions I wished my scope didn't constantly require adjustments when changing signals.
They are warrantied for 1 year so claim a warranty replacement from your supplier.Hi folks, got today by SDS1104XE ;D
It was calibrated in december 2022.
1 probe from 4 have contact issues. I contacted support to ask a newone (w/ a video).
I've got the same scope, same HW/OS versions, half a year earlier than yours and exactly the same issue: one of the probes is having issues with the 1x/10x switch ::)
It often is possible to capture a screenshot of the fault to support your claim.
New V6.1.37R10 firmware posted dated 4th March 2023:
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/)
Hi, I'm facing a few problems with the 1000X–E I2C decoding capabilities. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when monitoring the SCL and SDA channels, I only get partial data segments. I'm watching I2C communication between an Arduino UNO R3 and an I2C LCD on the address 0x27. The trigger I use is for Serial / I2C 2.5V thresholds on both channels and triggering on the 7bit data type with an explicit address of 0x27 and Write bit.Welcome to the forum.
The Arduino refreshes the screen in every 1s, cycling through data, and the scope triggers in every second as intended. It shows the right amount of messages, but the data payload does not seem to be alright. If I use Hex type outputs, it only shows one byte like 0x09, the ASCII corresponds to it as well, but the data does not seem to match the display itself.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
One other issue is with the triggering. Even if I trigger at the 0x27 address, sometimes, with bigger sample rates, I get all kinds of data and it does not use the triggers. Also attached a picture of this state, where it clearly shows an address 0x48, what is clearly should be out of scope.
(Attachment Link)
What am I doing wrong? Is it a limitation/bug with the scope?
Welcome to the forum.Hi, thanks, sorry, I took a few screen grabs from the web interface.
IMO it's high time you learnt how to take screenshots to USB using the blue Print button and normally we would have a menu showing that tells us something about scope settings, not a channel menu as we can see all we need in the channel tab.
You might get a few tips from another recent thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/sds1104x-e-review-decode-section/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/sds1104x-e-review-decode-section/)
If later today I get time I'll try and replicate your 0x27 triggering on a STB-3 Siglent test board.
Hi, thanks, sorry, I took a few screen grabs from the web interface.First thing noticed is trigger position is off screen to the left. Pres the H Pos encoder to return it to 0s, the middle of the display and then set it left again but keeping it on the display.
There is a good state, and there is a false trigger also. You can see the trigger menu also on the bottom. I will run through the decode thread, maybe there is some evident error on my side.
First thing noticed is trigger position is off screen to the left. Pres the H Pos encoder to return it to 0s, the middle of the display and then set it left again but keeping it on the display.
Oh and about that, P4 in Utility has a setting for Ref position, set Hor to fixed which will fix the H Pos in one place regardless of timebase setting.
I don't know if it helps, but I found some old review content regarding serial decode, also including I2C.
Browsing my old data, I realised that I've never published the serial decode tests. Now even though they are most likely a little outdated by now, I still though I'd add them to the existing content (SDS1104X-E Review 2_174-201.pdf):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1371783/#msg1371783 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1371783/#msg1371783)
I don't know if it helps, but I found some old review content regarding serial decode, also including I2C.
Browsing my old data, I realised that I've never published the serial decode tests. Now even though they are most likely a little outdated by now, I still though I'd add them to the existing content (SDS1104X-E Review 2_174-201.pdf):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1371783/#msg1371783 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1371783/#msg1371783)
Thank you very much, it is a great overview. I noticed in your I2C section, the last two screenshots (showing the triggers), it also included non–triggered events in the list view. Even if you were triggering on the address of 0x47, it also shows 0x53 also, and with the EEPROM Data1 trigger with 0x94, it also shows another message not matching that. Why is that?
I don't know if it helps, but I found some old review content regarding serial decode, also including I2C.
Browsing my old data, I realised that I've never published the serial decode tests. Now even though they are most likely a little outdated by now, I still though I'd add them to the existing content (SDS1104X-E Review 2_174-201.pdf):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1371783/#msg1371783 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1371783/#msg1371783)
Thank you very much, it is a great overview. I noticed in your I2C section, the last two screenshots (showing the triggers), it also included non–triggered events in the list view. Even if you were triggering on the address of 0x47, it also shows 0x53 also, and with the EEPROM Data1 trigger with 0x94, it also shows another message not matching that. Why is that?
Trigger takes care of when and where the capture will start. If you capture 10 (or 50) messages, it will decode all of them.. But it will start on the one trigger was set for...
Performa01:They did: the first DSO with a 16-bit display interface was the SDS2000X Plus, so it could take advantage not only on the Avg. and ERES functions, but also its 10-bit acquisition mode.
Did Siglent otimized the ERES in the meantime? Or are they planning to? You mentioned in your review that it is a low priority task but it would still be a great thing to get somehow some more bits. Or whatever was possible to optimize.
If you would happen to have some spare time, to explain what would be possible actually, it would be great to know! ::)
But would that be possible with the current hardware with the x-e scopes? Because when you mentioned the possible optimization, I suppose you didn't mean any HW modification.Performa01:They did: the first DSO with a 16-bit display interface was the SDS2000X Plus, so it could take advantage not only on the Avg. and ERES functions, but also its 10-bit acquisition mode.
Did Siglent otimized the ERES in the meantime? Or are they planning to? You mentioned in your review that it is a low priority task but it would still be a great thing to get somehow some more bits. Or whatever was possible to optimize.
If you would happen to have some spare time, to explain what would be possible actually, it would be great to know! ::)
It's been a long time that I last did anything with an SDS1000X-E, but I'm afraid these cheap entry level machines did not get that update. Maybe it would require too many resources - after all it's quite some effort to widen the data path all the way from sample memory to the display from 8 to 16 bits...
But would that be possible with the current hardware with the x-e scopes? Because when you mentioned the possible optimization, I suppose you didn't mean any HW modification.Performa01:They did: the first DSO with a 16-bit display interface was the SDS2000X Plus, so it could take advantage not only on the Avg. and ERES functions, but also its 10-bit acquisition mode.
Did Siglent otimized the ERES in the meantime? Or are they planning to? You mentioned in your review that it is a low priority task but it would still be a great thing to get somehow some more bits. Or whatever was possible to optimize.
If you would happen to have some spare time, to explain what would be possible actually, it would be great to know! ::)
It's been a long time that I last did anything with an SDS1000X-E, but I'm afraid these cheap entry level machines did not get that update. Maybe it would require too many resources - after all it's quite some effort to widen the data path all the way from sample memory to the display from 8 to 16 bits...
I know that there are now the HD scopes aviable, but in the cheap segment that limited 1-2 extra bit would still be world beater, and way more useful because of the low noise frontend than what other scopes could do with similar processors. (And the 1000 HD series have such a low sample rate, that I would not consider it being a full step up in every aspect from the x-e's.)
I do not know it particularly for the SDS1000X-E series. But from my tests, I can tell that the HW-resources are limited. Originally, even XY-mode was done in software - only later Siglent have managed to cram this functionality into the FPGA, speedint it up substantially but giving up on supporting channels 3 and 4 for XY at the same time.But would that be possible with the current hardware with the x-e scopes? Because when you mentioned the possible optimization, I suppose you didn't mean any HW modification.Performa01:They did: the first DSO with a 16-bit display interface was the SDS2000X Plus, so it could take advantage not only on the Avg. and ERES functions, but also its 10-bit acquisition mode.
Did Siglent otimized the ERES in the meantime? Or are they planning to? You mentioned in your review that it is a low priority task but it would still be a great thing to get somehow some more bits. Or whatever was possible to optimize.
If you would happen to have some spare time, to explain what would be possible actually, it would be great to know! ::)
It's been a long time that I last did anything with an SDS1000X-E, but I'm afraid these cheap entry level machines did not get that update. Maybe it would require too many resources - after all it's quite some effort to widen the data path all the way from sample memory to the display from 8 to 16 bits...
I know that there are now the HD scopes aviable, but in the cheap segment that limited 1-2 extra bit would still be world beater, and way more useful because of the low noise frontend than what other scopes could do with similar processors. (And the 1000 HD series have such a low sample rate, that I would not consider it being a full step up in every aspect from the x-e's.)
When he said "resources" would not be enough he didn't mean human effort at manufacturer, but capabilities of hardware of the scope....
As in: not enough memory, CPU, FGA fabric etc....
And what you mean by "did Siglent optimize ERES ?" question. In what way do you mean that?
So it might would be possible but with very slow display update, or some similar constraint? Because even in that case in some situation it is still better than nothing.
I do not know it particularly for the SDS1000X-E series. But from my tests, I can tell that the HW-resources are limited. Originally, even XY-mode was done in software - only later Siglent have managed to cram this functionality into the FPGA, speedint it up substantially but giving up on supporting channels 3 and 4 for XY at the same time.
Siglent often let advanced features (like Bode Plot II) trickle down to the entry level models, or even implemented new features (like the data recorder) - as long as it was possible, i.e. sufficient HW resources. The fact that we did not get it up to now is indicative that the SDS1000X-E HW isn't up for the task to handle 16-bit data throughout.
I've never had a case where I might need that, but I can see if I was waiting a considerable time for an event to occur it might be handy. What other features are they trying to decide between, or is this all by itself?By itself Bill in that it's a single and new feature request planned to put in front of Siglent.
Sounding X-E owners out with our customer feature request before presenting it to Siglent:
Single shot trigger
When trigger conditions are met and the scope goes to STOP mode short buzzer activation is enabled with a new user ON/OFF buzzer capability.
Buzzer activation is for a period different to all other notifications, say 2s.
Buzzer control needs be added into the Trigger menu.
Reason: to provide audible alert to users when single shot trigger conditions are met.
Worthy feature request ?
Today I was too lazy to take my HD for measuring, so I took the 1104X-E...Boy, it´s loud... ;)Expand it out to see if there are any very short spikes (overshoot/undershoot).
I took this for a simple measurement, let it display the pk-pk voltage of ch1 and ch2.
Ch1 is 10x and 1V/div.
Look at the signal on ch1, it´s slightly more than 3 divisions = 3V ( it´s a 3.2...3.3V source).
And it measures the double ? Why?
Ch2 is "correct" displaying the value.
Martin
Web Interface not working properly - guidance please?Look at the far upper right of the scope display. The should be a little grey/silver box with and arrow head pointing right. Click on that.
I've connected my sds1104x-e (new, out of box) to my LAN and the scope acquired a network address successfully. Go to my browser, set the scope address and get the webserver - all OK. When I go to Instrument Control only the scope display is shown, the control buttons & knobs are missing. I repeated the connection using the TPLink WiFI dongle with the same results. Tried 3 different browsers with both Wifi and LAN connections, no joy.
IP addresses for both types of connections are static.
The only thing I can think of is port forwarding but I've been casting around the net and have found nothing discussed, one way or another. The user manual is useless on this point.
Any suggestions on how to make this work correctly?
If helpful: Sw Ver: 6.1.37R8, OS version 8.3
Thanks
J
Thanks, I *finally* found that but the display + control panel is huge...no way to zoom out?Only with use of you PC’s display scaling.
Hi Billy,:-//
First thanks and you´re right. :-+
Following for the ones who will have the same "problem":
I did expand it and saw nothing..
Playing with timebase and so on...nothing changed.
Then I add minimum and maximum....Aha...a negative voltage will be measured but I can´t see it...Couldn´t be so.
Finally I switched off channel 2 and then bingo... ;)
Ch2 "covered" the negative spike of ch1... :P
But respect to the little 1104 for "finding" it.
Martin
At the end of the day, I could see it.Nods.....
Where I was sitting and where the scope was, I couldn't see it like that, only when I deactivated the second channel.
That was all it was. ;)
Thanks, I *finally* found that but the display + control panel is huge...no way to zoom out?
Sounding X-E owners out with our customer feature request before presenting it to Siglent:
Single shot trigger
When trigger conditions are met and the scope goes to STOP mode short buzzer activation is enabled with a new user ON/OFF buzzer capability.
Buzzer activation is for a period different to all other notifications, say 2s.
Buzzer control needs be added into the Trigger menu.
Reason: to provide audible alert to users when single shot trigger conditions are met.
Worthy feature request ?
My current oscilloscope is a DSO150, so I am hoping it will be slightly better then it.
Yes that's it. I have had it for several years. You may not believe this. But it is not that good.
I was attempting humour. I probably should not give up my day job just yet.I got it 100% !
I was attempting humour. I probably should not give up my day job just yet.
Hi, I'm facing a few problems with the 1000X–E I2C...btw have a question, why you connect ground twice from same scope at same points? i,e, if you connected 1 time probe, 2nd automatically grounded cause 4 channel share same PE. Just a newbie question. Technically it suppose to create ground loops.
Hi, I'm facing a few problems with the 1000X–E I2C...btw have a question, why you connect ground twice from same scope at same points? i,e, if you connected 1 time probe, 2nd automatically grounded cause 4 channel share same PE. Just a newbie question. Technically it suppose to create ground loops.
rf-loop thanks for nice reply, but i did not speak about HF case (when folks use metal springs attached to probes to reduce ground path).
Just from the picture, when there are 2 probes and both are attached by the wire.. idk why attach 2nd wire if 1st is already ground to scope. And it's same ground point.. and the distance doesn't make an issues and freqs also guess. Just about that :)
RE notification when the complex trigger is triggered. Two things- first a double short beep would be distictive and not annoying. Second- possibly some alert/interrupt over the wi-fi-ethernet interface. Having a way to see the rare event can be really useful. Waiting at a static screen to see it (and it may be subtle) is very much no fun.I'm thinking just a defined beep different to those the scope normally makes as even a 1/2 to 1s is different from anything it currently emits.
It is Dave's fault I bought it, he said get a 4 channel scope in 2023 over a 2 channel ;)
I also updated the software to 6.1.37R10, at that time. Tonight, I saw in some other post a recommendation to also update the OS. I am not having success with that process.FWIW I only use 8 GB dives formatted FAT32 with 4k clusters.
Here are my stat, before and after:
Software = 6.1.37R10
UBOOT - OS = 8.3
FPGA = 2021-11-08
Hardware = 01-04
Type = SDS1204X-E
Background: !I am not much of a computer person!
I am using a new-ish PNY 32G thumb drive. Windows 11 said it had a problem, when downloading the new OS zip, but that flag cleared after a few moments, as is typical. Even with the blip, the drive always seems to operate correctly, after the flag clears. My guess is that the drive was removed from the computer, sometime, without ejecting it properly.
As these scopes don't have a RTC any files saved to USB don't have timestamps so Windows in particular believes the drive has a fault which must be repaired. < Ignore it.
The big OS update was for V2 to support these new FW features:
From the release notes of V6.1.37R2
Added data logger featuring Sample and Measurement Logger functions
Added counter function
Added Labels
Added NTP (Network Time Protocol) and Time Zone. Also requires OS update to SDS1xx4X-E_OSV2 which is located on the SIGLENT product webpage. The OS Update Instructions is also included SDS1xx4X-E_OSV2.zip
Modified negative or positive of horizontal delay: Time zero is in trigger. Before trigger, time position is -time (negative delay relative to trigger) and after trigger is +time (positive delay relative to trigger)
Fixed a bug with Bin2CSV for ROLL mode
Rebuilt Bin2CSV to File Converter which can also convert data logger file to CSV.
Fixed a bug: some case there is a blue line on decode bus
Fixed a bug with saving hex MSO CSV file
Fixed a bug: After rebooting , Bode Plot cursor can’t be moved
Fixed a bug: fine adjusting with customer probe
WiFi supported Spaces and Special Characters
V3 OS update OTOH is to support new HW....note the instruction:
If SDS1xx4X-E hardware has version below 09, you don’t need to update SDS1xx4X-E OS.
PDF attached.
If you have NTP working you should be good to go.
Tips for such >
Setup the scope on your LAN and obtain an IP address. The LAN indicator should lose any red X.
With PC Google for your local NTP server and enter its IP into the IP box in the new Time/Date feature and choose Display and Sync.
Not sure if I've asked this before, but how do you know which OS is already installed on the scope?No. Yours is V3.
Unlike the firmware/software/ADS versions, I can't see how OS versions 1,2,3 tie up with the info on the System Status page? Even the unzipped files don't give any clues (even the latest v3 OS released on 5th Jan 2023 show file dates of 2019 & 2021).
My Uboot-OS version is 8.3
Hardware version 01-05
Does that mean I still have ver 1 OS?
@ TautechThere are 3 important identifiers in your Sys Info page.
"FWIW I only use 8 GB dives formatted FAT32 with 4k clusters."
I caught the 8GB/32GB requirement in the instructions. My 32GB was handy, so I grabbed it. I don't know if I have an 8GB; I will have to look. I did not know that the scope is particular about FAT32 and 4k clusters. To be honest, that is a little outside of my knowledge base. I will have to find out what protocols I have.
I have the same questions as 807... I thought Uboot-OS 8.3 was my OS version and that it was so old that it didn't even have the current series numbering. So, where do we find our OS version?
I have not begun working on putting together a network for my lab. So, I don't know about those things and I don't know about NTP. But, should the bottom line to my understanding be this... As my Uboot is 8.3, which is lower than 9, I do not need to update the OS anyway? If not, I will have to keep working at it and I would need your continued support.
I have told you, previously, how much we appreciate all you do for our Community, Tautech. That stands double, for today!
...Only latest 9 version HW requires the latest OS install...
Thank you, tautech, for clearing that up. I say this as a reminder to others... The update instructions recommend that the user removes the update files from their thumb drive, so that the OS update does not automatically run the next time the drive is used. That is the one remaining task, for me. Cheers, with much appreciation.Addition of OS. ^^^
Yep....Only latest 9 version HW requires the latest OS install...
Is it the second part of the Hardware Version number that shows the actual version?
Mine is 01-05. Does that mean that I have version 5 HW?
I bought my scope 6 months ago from Telonic in UK. So there's been 4 HW versions since then?I haven't seen them.
Although I've just found the calibration certificate. It has a cal date of 1st March 2022, so was already 9 months old when I bought it.Consider a worldwide distribution chain and all the steps/delays there might be before the unit you got arrived in the UK. Shipping from HQ to Germany then to UK could easy take some months.....to NZ from HQ often is nearly 2 months however we are the only official NZ point of sale without any further distribution chain.
QuoteAlthough I've just found the calibration certificate. It has a cal date of 1st March 2022, so was already 9 months old when I bought it.Consider a worldwide distribution chain and all the steps/delays there might be before the unit you got arrived in the UK. Shipping from HQ to Germany then to UK could easy take some months.....to NZ from HQ often is nearly 2 months however we are the only official NZ point of sale without any further distribution chain.
I bought my scope 6 months ago from Telonic in UK. So there's been 4 HW versions since then?Consider the chip crisis during Corona. When you cannot source some essential parts anymore, you have to do a redesign of the hardware, so you can use a different part (with slightly different specs or just another case and/or pinout. When you've done this and just then another important part becomes unavailable, you have to design the next HW version - maybe even before any significant quantity of the prior design have been produced.
HW version 9 is quite new from production.
I bought mine 10 months ago (in NA) and it is HW version 09-06.
LOL!I bought mine 10 months ago (in NA) and it is HW version 09-06.
Must be the DeLorean version...
HW version 9 is quite new from production.
I bought mine 10 months ago (in NA) and it is HW version 09-06.
Having 2 numbers seperated by a hyphen is what I find confusing. So you have version 6 HW, (as it's the second part that shows the HW version). So what does the first part of the number represent? Yours is 09, mine is 01 (01-05) :-//
Having 2 numbers seperated by a hyphen is what I find confusing. So you have version 6 HW, (as it's the second part that shows the HW version).
Fixed the problem: The skew of the two ADCs is not accuracy for hardware of 09 version (System Status shows Hardware Version: 09-xx). The other hardware version has no this problem
Be Compatible with a new VGA chip
By the way, based on the release notes comment for 6.1.37R8 firmware, I'd guess that the hardware change in revision 9 was a new display controller:VGA is not a display controller. VGA = Variable Gain AmplifierQuoteBe Compatible with a new VGA chip
Having 2 numbers seperated by a hyphen is what I find confusing. So you have version 6 HW, (as it's the second part that shows the HW version).
Based on Tautech's posts that seems to be correct. However the firmware release notes for 6.1.37R9 say this:QuoteFixed the problem: The skew of the two ADCs is not accuracy for hardware of 09 version (System Status shows Hardware Version: 09-xx). The other hardware version has no this problem
Which certainly doesn't help reduce any confusion. Hopefully Siglent can correct this in the next release of the OS and firmware, assuming there is one (the release notes for the OS V3 say the same).
All we need to know is in the relevant release notes.Having 2 numbers seperated by a hyphen is what I find confusing. So you have version 6 HW, (as it's the second part that shows the HW version).
Based on Tautech's posts that seems to be correct. However the firmware release notes for 6.1.37R9 say this:QuoteFixed the problem: The skew of the two ADCs is not accuracy for hardware of 09 version (System Status shows Hardware Version: 09-xx). The other hardware version has no this problem
Which certainly doesn't help reduce any confusion. Hopefully Siglent can correct this in the next release of the OS and firmware, assuming there is one (the release notes for the OS V3 say the same).
Good spot. I didn't clock that when I read the release notes for the firmware & OS.
Perhaps tautech can clarify?
Hi there!It would certainly be possible. I've not used USB with my scope, but LAN is subject to base speed, activity and collision rate so it can vary quite a bit.
I've been experimenting with Bode Plot II with my SDS1104X-E and my SDG1032X (both hacked ::) ) using both USB or LAN interfaces and the plot response seems to be slower with LAN.
Is it normal?
Aren't all USB connectors the same?;D
Yes you can run out of USB A sockets with these DSO's however solutions are very cheap:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005605778448 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005605778448)
Thanks for your answer but...Sorry, here's another:Yes you can run out of USB A sockets with these DSO's however solutions are very cheap:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005605778448 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005605778448)
Sorry but that link does not seem to work here. Can you please copy-paste the description of that item?
Well, following my quest to controlling the SDG1032X from my SDS1104X-E for Bode plotting easily and conveniently, I cannot do it by using the rear USB-B sockets from both machines, I mean, using an USB-B to USB-B cable from one unit to the other.
"AWG not detected" ::)
If I connect the back USB-B from the AWG to the scope's front USB-A then it all goes hunky dory. On the other hand, if I connect the scope's back USB-B to the AWG's front USB-A, no deal!
Aren't all USB connectors the same?
Am I doing something wrong?
P.S.: In case you're wondering, I want to keep both machines connected permanently without cables hanging from the front of the units and/or having to remove the front attached USB stick I keep in the scope all the time.
P.S.2: Also, the second USB at the back of the scope is already used by the WiFi dongle.
[EDIT: typo]
Aren't all USB connectors the same?;D
No.
USB B is Device USB, that is the device under control from a USB A connection.
Use either of the USB cables that came with each of these instruments with type A in the DSO and end type B in the AWG.
Yes you can run out of USB A sockets with these DSO's however solutions are very cheap:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005605778448 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005605778448)
Thanks for your answer but...Sorry, here's another:Yes you can run out of USB A sockets with these DSO's however solutions are very cheap:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005605778448 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005605778448)
Sorry but that link does not seem to work here. Can you please copy-paste the description of that item?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005633637139.html? (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005633637139.html?)
Just add the .html? to the previous link.
Thanks, mate!... l I'll try it.
Hi, just got myself an SDS1104x-e and I have a question about the intensity knob. My understanding from the manual is that with no menu active turning the knob should adjust the intensity. However this does not happen on my scope, the knob is generally inactive in this case. Moreover, if I have a menu item selected and I hide the menu with the menu button then the control still controls the now hidden menu option, which can cause a bit of confusion. Am I misunderstanding something about how this is supposed to work?
EDIT: seems like I was reading the wrong manual(!) and in fact this is not how the intensity control works on this model. Odd, seeing as it's still labelled "intensity" but oh well
Hi, just got myself an SDS1104x-e and I have a question about the intensity knob. My understanding from the manual is that with no menu active turning the knob should adjust the intensity. However this does not happen on my scope, the knob is generally inactive in this case. Moreover, if I have a menu item selected and I hide the menu with the menu button then the control still controls the now hidden menu option, which can cause a bit of confusion. Am I misunderstanding something about how this is supposed to work?
EDIT: seems like I was reading the wrong manual(!) and in fact this is not how the intensity control works on this model. Odd, seeing as it's still labelled "intensity" but oh well
Can you give an example of which menu still works when it's hidden?
Well, that's just history.
Originally, the "Intensity" knob controlled the screen intensity by default, but was also used for item selection as soon as a menu was selected. However, you can have a timeout for menus and after it has expired, the menu is gone and the knob controls the intensity again. Many folks (including me) have sweared a lot when they turned the knob without looking closely, expecting to alter the previously selected item - but changed the intensity instead, just because the menu has timed out in the meantime. AT one point, Siglent quite obviously changed the default behaviour and disabled the intensity control. Intensity is not a function you would use very frequently on a digital scope anyway.
Long story short, the knob once worked as advertised, but not anymore. At all times, something like "Universal Control" was the way more appropriate term for this knob. Unfortunately, FW-updates cannot change the front panel labels... ;)
Just wondering if anyone has done or seen reported any testing of how high a frequency these scopes will still trigger reliably on?Any rules ?
Just wondering if anyone has done or seen reported any testing of how high a frequency these scopes will still trigger reliably on?
Before tests I imagine ~400 MHz which fits with Nyquist.That fits. Using a sine wave I was able to get to 425MHz and have the waveform stable and the trigger point adjustable over more than 75% of the waveform. It started to get a little jittery at 450MHz. Signal was 526mVpp being fed in @ 425MHz and being displayed as 106mVpp, so -14db. Quite beyond where it makes sense.
Quite beyond where it makes sense.Quite so, but there are use cases where one may not have access to a counter and while not precise the scopes counter might serve the required need.
Quite so, but there are use cases where one may not have access to a counter and while not precise the scopes counter might serve the required need.
In short, it seems that once you change the interface from WLAN to LAN and then back to WLAN you have to change the NTP IP address to get a successful connection, even if you type the same IP again!
There are IP over mains adapters that will allow you to connect your lab LAN to the router. I use these (https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-Powerline-Ethernet-TL-PA7017-KIT/dp/B084CZMYNM (https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-Powerline-Ethernet-TL-PA7017-KIT/dp/B084CZMYNM)), but there lots of other makes as well.
otherwise (USB) I get noise (that's another story >:( )
Some time ago I said here that I have experienced a better Bode Plot speed using USB than via LAN but was a pain to use because I had both USB ports accupied: the front with a USB stick and the back with a WLAN adapter. The other USB port in the back (USB-B) was unsuitable for this. Tautech recommended me to use an USB hub to get extra ports and so I did. I bought one of those cheap USB hubs and plugged in the back USB-A port, and then plugged the WLAN port and the cable from the AWG into that hub.otherwise (USB) I get noise (that's another story >:( )
What sort of noise? Care to elaborate?
Besides, I have no intention to try other hubs and discover the hard way they all make the same problems.
Exactly what you would expect using 10x probes when input settings are set to high sensitivity levels.Some time ago I said here that I have experienced a better Bode Plot speed using USB than via LAN but was a pain to use because I had both USB ports accupied: the front with a USB stick and the back with a WLAN adapter. The other USB port in the back (USB-B) was unsuitable for this. Tautech recommended me to use an USB hub to get extra ports and so I did. I bought one of those cheap USB hubs and plugged in the back USB-A port, and then plugged the WLAN port and the cable from the AWG into that hub.otherwise (USB) I get noise (that's another story >:( )
What sort of noise? Care to elaborate?
Everythig worked fine but I began to experience some problems with noise: probing low amplitude signals, particularly when using 10X in the probes, resulted into high noise readings and what can be described as "occasional heebee-jeebies" with the scope traces. Suspecting from the recent hub addition I removed it and everything returned to normal. I'm pretty sure it may be because the USB hub I bought is one of those chinesium cheapos from AliExpress and sure it was cheap! the cable was not shielded neither the "shells" for the USB connections. I corrected those two issues and the problem disappeared almost completely with a little tiny bit of noise still present and very weak and less frequent "heebee-jeebies", but they're still there. As I do not want to have all my measurements permanently disturbed with noise and weird movements, no matter how weak they are, I decided to take the hub off definitely. Besides, I have no intention to try other hubs and discover the hard way they all make the same problems.
Because of that I'm now reverting to Bode Plot via LAN with the aforementined problems.
These NTP options might help:None of those options worked. Of course the first thing I tried was "Sync" to no avail until I retyped in a new IP address as stated before. Something must be wrong in the NTP coding.
- "Sync" should force a re-synchronization with the NTP server. You'd have to do this manually, but pushing a button is better then screwing around with the NTP server address
- "Periodic Sync" on and "Interval" set to 1h should get you an automatic re-sync within an hour. So if you can live with the time not being right for an hour...
It's too bad the shortest re-sync interval is 1h
I certainly can't say that a hub from a respected vendor would solve your problems, but I do think there's a really good chance that a hub from a respected vendor would behave better than a 90 cent no name Aliexpress USB hub.Quite possible. ASMOF the problem was greatly reduced once I solved some issues with the hub. I may get a better hub... ::)
Exactly what you would expect using 10x probes when input settings are set to high sensitivity levels.
Suggest you get some BNC to croc leads and use only 1x input attenuation when noise is a problem.
Interesting problem.Exactly what you would expect using 10x probes when input settings are set to high sensitivity levels.
Suggest you get some BNC to croc leads and use only 1x input attenuation when noise is a problem.
Well, as I said previously, once I took the USB hub out of the equation the noise disappeared. It was not a problem with the probing procedure, it was indeed a problem with the hub. Besides, the signal I was probing was not that low: it was a 400mVpp sinusoidal wave directly from the SDG1062X.
But that is not the possible bug I mention. The bug is in the NTP coding once you change from WLAN to LAN then back to WLAN.
Interesting problem.No but I'm going to try just right now. I'll keep you posted.
Have you tried placing the USB WiFi dongle into the front USB and have the USB hub on the rear USB and use only that for storage and the SDG tethering ?
That should give some physical separation between WiFi and the hub if there's interference between them.
BTW, is everything properly mains PE bonded ?Sorry but I'm afraid I do not understand you... what's a "mains PE bond" ::)
PE = Protective Earth. ;)Interesting problem.No but I'm going to try just right now. I'll keep you posted.
Have you tried placing the USB WiFi dongle into the front USB and have the USB hub on the rear USB and use only that for storage and the SDG tethering ?
That should give some physical separation between WiFi and the hub if there's interference between them.BTW, is everything properly mains PE bonded ?Sorry but I'm afraid I do not understand you... what's a "mains PE bond" ::)
Both the scope and the AWG are connected to the same mains line with good earth connection.
Until now when NTP fails to link with the NTP server, pressing Sync always fixes that but I'll look for an issue with this and WLAN and LAN.Yes, that has also been brought up here before (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg5068027/#msg5068027). After the WLAN-LAN-WLAN dance "Sync" does not work at all!... at least for me :(
Get some :popcorn: while waiting as it's already late here. :=\Don't worry! ;D You have always been the most supportive!
Well, my hub is USB 2.0 ::)Guess it's just really bad then ;D
Hi,Thank you, Martin.
Only a few scopes on the market have the option of changing the colors.
Unfortunately, the 1204 is not one of them, as far as I know.
(SDS2k+ and higher have this option).
I think the color selection is one of the most useful features of all, perhaps siglent should be asked again whether they can also implement this for the smaller model.
.../...
BUT, while fiddling with all these configurations I suspected from that very USB extender cable and, know what?... it is also not shielded, as it was the cable from the hub!... again the chinesium curse strikes me back! it is quite possible that buying a good quality USB extender cable will solve the noise problems I'm having ::)
But stilll there's a possible bug with the NTP implementation in the scope! ;)Yes, this is definitely a bug!
But stilll there's a possible bug with the NTP implementation in the scope! ;)Yes, this is definitely a bug!
As member mwb1100 suggests:
whenever the scope goes from a disconnected to connected state (whether LAN or Wifi), it should automatically Sync NTP if "Power On Sync" or "Periodic Sync" is on
Is proposed for Siglent to consider.
Correct, not a bug but could be improved.As member mwb1100 suggests:
whenever the scope goes from a disconnected to connected state (whether LAN or Wifi), it should automatically Sync NTP if "Power On Sync" or "Periodic Sync" is on
Is proposed for Siglent to consider.
I'm not against it.
But it is not a bug. No NTP service does that. I'm not even defending Siglent scope here. It's just no NTP is supposed to do that. On any device.
It is not a bug.
NTP does not care about network. After initial synch (on boot) because it has not battery backed up clock, next refresh is when built in software clock accuracy is questionable because it has been running too long, and then we recheck with NTP server if there are corrections needed.
Actually, if device clock is any good, it is recommended not to synch NTP too often, because it introduces timing jitter...
Updates are not correlated to network config, but only to clock needs..
As member mwb1100 suggests:
whenever the scope goes from a disconnected to connected state (whether LAN or Wifi), it should automatically Sync NTP if "Power On Sync" or "Periodic Sync" is on
Is proposed for Siglent to consider.
I'm not against it.
But it is not a bug. No NTP service does that. I'm not even defending Siglent scope here. It's just no NTP is supposed to do that. On any device.
As member mwb1100 suggests:
whenever the scope goes from a disconnected to connected state (whether LAN or Wifi), it should automatically Sync NTP if "Power On Sync" or "Periodic Sync" is on
Is proposed for Siglent to consider.
I'm not against it.
But it is not a bug. No NTP service does that. I'm not even defending Siglent scope here. It's just no NTP is supposed to do that. On any device.
Actually, that is incorrect. The scope is using a variant of NTP known as Simple NTP or SNTP. (The key difference is polling and directly setting time instead of the full NTP approach of synchronized, adaptive feedback loop keeping time in sync potentially as both a client and a server.) Many network devices which obtain time using SNTP do indeed poll the NTP server when the network connection is started, and start their polling interval from that event. In those devices if the network disconnects then the NTP service will poll again immediately on reconnect whether or not the polling interval has lapsed.
A full NTP implementation actually creates a lot more network traffic than SNTP as the poll intervals for SNTP are typically multiple orders of magnitude longer than that for a full NTP implementation (often 1024 seconds max compared to hours or even a daily poll for SNTP). This means that it is more important for a SNTP implementation to poll on connect since it might be a very long time before the interval expires compared to a few seconds for a full NTP implementation. One of the primary reasons this has become best practice is the only time you know the network is available is when it connects. In a few hours? Maybe, maybe not.
How do I know this? I have over 30 years of directly applicable standard definition and implementation experience, and currently work as a senior principal firmware engineer in this field. All of the devices running firmware produced by my current employer poll immediately on connect, and so do the vast majority of network devices I've worked with from all the "smart" gadgets in my house to devices costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, at least when using SNTP.
It was added to scope because it does not have a battery backed up RTC, so users don't have to set up clock manually.FYI
Hello I am looking for an measurement tool on my Siglent SDS1104X-E to automatically count edges for a time interval between a specified start-point and end-point.Unfortunately, the SDS1000X-E series DSOs are somewhat limited when it comes to math and measurements. They support gated measurements, but cannot count edges. SDS2000X Plus and above offer more in this regard and count edges and pulses. The same goes for the upcoming SDS800X HD and SDS1000X HD.
I can't find such an option. Is this possible or can it be implemented by Siglent?
Can anyone explain the weird jumps in channel skew (like hundreds of uS) when changing vertical gain on one channel on my SDS1104XE?Yes. It's just input stage overloading.
Hello I am looking for an measurement tool on my Siglent SDS1104X-E to automatically count edges for a time interval between a specified start-point and end-point.Yes ... we'll very likely get that with the next firmware update.
I can't find such an option. Is this possible or can it be implemented by Siglent?
we will still get some maintainance for the X-E series.
I have this vague feeling it probably has been answered somewhere already, but i can't find the information : how does my sds1104x-e reports "Uboot-OS Version: 8.1", while the official siglent updates page mentions "SDS1xx4X-E Operating System -V3 (Only For 4-Channel models) (Release Date 01.05.23 )" ? The only "8.1" mentionned on the page are related to the sla1016 (which i don't own neither care).V1 was the very first OS now updated to V3 to support the later added featureset.
I have a recent firmware (6.1.37r6) even if not the latest, and the other informations on the "about" page are unrelated to the OS.
Does "8.1" mean i have the "V1" ? Does "V1" even exist ?
The pdf included in the previously mentioned download (see attachment) mentions versions "1" "2" "3" without the "V". I'm not even sure what i have.
Bonus question: my hardware is old ("01-03"), and i understand i dont "need" version 3, but i can still install it ? I kinda guess 'yes', but I of course don't want to brick my scope because it's only intended for newer hardware revisions.
V1 was the very first OS now updated to V3 to support the later added featureset...
As I recall the 8 signifies the product line or maybe UI type and 1 is the OS version.V1 was the very first OS now updated to V3 to support the later added featureset...
I know all of this. I have updated the firmware for sure, and i kinda recall also updating the OS. (but thanks for caring !)
My questions are really focused on "8.1". What is it ? What does it mean ? It seems so unrelated to the official documents / web pages.
As I recall the 8 signifies the product line or maybe UI type and 1 is the OS version.
Not all get 8.3 displayed after installing with some displaying 8.2 but V3 OS can be confirmed installed correctly if you have the Logging or NTP feature working correctly.
Not exactly sure why this is but I suspect production was installing V2 OS and labelling it as the very early V1.As I recall the 8 signifies the product line or maybe UI type and 1 is the OS version.
Not all get 8.3 displayed after installing with some displaying 8.2 but V3 OS can be confirmed installed correctly if you have the Logging or NTP feature working correctly.
Ok, so it's really messy, no wonder i was lost. Thanks for clarifying somehow !
With other words: If your HW version is below 09-xx) do not update to V3. (If you still try, nothing happens but you waste time - remember that it is a non-renewable resource at the personal level)