Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 194826 times)

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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #75 on: October 04, 2017, 12:42:25 am »
the chinese arent big utube addicts, they have there own streaming video hosts.
so there may be lots of stuff - you just cant see it.
I've managed to dig up fairly obscure stuff before, but in this case I'm drawing a blank.
 


Offline Giuss

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2017, 07:43:53 pm »
An news about avaiabilty in other markets?
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2017, 07:45:38 pm »
Will be Q1 2018
As soon as we get news or sample we will post
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2017, 07:50:12 am »
Will be Q1 2018
As soon as we get news or sample we will post
Apparently it will be early Q1 2018, considering a comment has been made that release is much less than 6 months away. The end of Q1 was pretty much exactly 6 months away at that point, so it would have to be januari or februari at worst, but I would consider Valentines Day to be the boundary between much less and just under.
 

Offline Gabri74

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2017, 08:05:09 am »
Will be Q1 2018
As soon as we get news or sample we will post

(Disclaimer: Italy-oriented question ;-) )
Hi Simone, do you think that for Italy it will be possible to preorder and pay before dicember 31st? Because I guess this DSO is elegible for Superammortamento/Industria4.0 concessions (for non italian people, those are a kind of una-tantum tax relief) ?

Tnx
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #81 on: October 06, 2017, 08:18:44 am »
(Disclaimer: Italy-oriented question ;-) )
Hi Simone, do you think that for Italy it will be possible to preorder and pay before dicember 31st? Because I guess this DSO is elegible for Superammortamento/Industria4.0 concessions (for non italian people, those are a kind of una-tantum tax relief) ?

Tnx
I'm coming from the same angle. It would be beneficial for me to make the investment in 2017, although I could compensate a bit by advancing other expenditures.
 

Offline Giuss

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2017, 09:01:57 am »
I was thinking to buy a sds1202x-e or a ds1054z this week because I need it, but now I've seen this new model. I don't know what to do :)  If I need to wait 6 months, I'll buy another one
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2017, 09:06:30 am »
I was thinking to buy a sds1202x-e or a ds1054z this week because I need it, but now I've seen this new model. I don't know what to do :)  If I need to wait 6 months, I'll buy another one
Here too I'm in the same boat. I've bought a Velleman WFS210 to bridge the gap, even though I know it cannot be compared to the two real oscilloscopes. I hope it will at least keep me going until the reviews for the SDS1204X-E start coming in.
 

Offline IAmBack

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2017, 09:53:27 am »
I do not live in Italy, but I think you should ask this question to your tax authorities.
In my country the company can create a "pro forma invoice", but you can use this invoice to deduct VAT and can not use it to deduct income tax (maybe the opposite, i don't remember exactly, but this shows problems with a tax deduction).
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2017, 02:59:07 pm »
Will be Q1 2018
As soon as we get news or sample we will post

(Disclaimer: Italy-oriented question ;-) )
Hi Simone, do you think that for Italy it will be possible to preorder and pay before dicember 31st? Because I guess this DSO is elegible for Superammortamento/Industria4.0 concessions (for non italian people, those are a kind of una-tantum tax relief) ?

Tnx
I would say it is possible if they will not need the delivery note.
I will investigate with our admin office and come back to you.
Please be aware we are not informed about a release date at this moment.
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Offline Gabri74

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #86 on: October 28, 2017, 10:25:28 am »
Any news on availability in Europe/Italy? This french store already lists it (with wrong picture) and seems to accept preorders:

http://www.limpulsion.fr/art/SDS1204XE/SIGLENT__Oscilloscope_4x200_MHz_7_decodage
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #87 on: October 28, 2017, 10:48:44 am »
Hmmm thanks for posting this. Very strange since Siglent doesn’t want to roll out the unit in EU before they have well tested it into the domestic market.
However we will check and post more official info when possible!
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #88 on: October 28, 2017, 11:42:01 am »
Just had a official reply from Siglent China. Public European launch date is planned for November the 26th.
At the moment there are not official info about quantity availability and pricing.
Keep you posted  :popcorn:
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #89 on: October 28, 2017, 11:48:34 am »
I wonder if Dave will get one to review before then ?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #90 on: October 28, 2017, 11:58:58 am »
we all love Dave videos ...  :-+
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #91 on: October 28, 2017, 02:33:40 pm »
Any news on availability in Europe/Italy? This french store already lists it (with wrong picture) and seems to accept preorders:

http://www.limpulsion.fr/art/SDS1204XE/SIGLENT__Oscilloscope_4x200_MHz_7_decodage
Wow, this unit has 14 MHz of memory!

Joking aside, I see it apparently has 1 GB/s per channel, which is nice. It's also what you'd want in a 200 MHz scope, but it's good the have that confirmed. It does seem to have less memory than a fully upgraded DS1054Z, which surprises me a bit. Other manufacturers seem to consistently have a lot less memory, despite the Rigols selling like hotcakes.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #92 on: October 28, 2017, 03:51:47 pm »
Any news on availability in Europe/Italy? This french store already lists it (with wrong picture) and seems to accept preorders:

http://www.limpulsion.fr/art/SDS1204XE/SIGLENT__Oscilloscope_4x200_MHz_7_decodage
Wow, this unit has 14 MHz of memory!

Joking aside, I see it apparently has 1 GB/s per channel, which is nice. It's also what you'd want in a 200 MHz scope, but it's good the have that confirmed. It does seem to have less memory than a fully upgraded DS1054Z, which surprises me a bit. Other manufacturers seem to consistently have a lot less memory, despite the Rigols selling like hotcakes.

It can imagine like this: (even if construction is different but functionally like this)

It have 4 channels. Or is it better say 2 + 2 channel.

Channels 1 and 2 have one ADC and shared 14M memory.
Channels 3 and 3 have one ADC and shared 14M memory.

ADC is single channel 1GSa/s (internally interleaved 2 channels) and two channel both 500MSa/s

Case A
If what ever single channel is alone in use it have 1GSa/s and max 14M memory.

Case B
If all 4 channels or what ever 3 channels simultaneously in use all have 500MSa/s and all have 7M max memory length.

Case C
If in channel pair 1&2  is only one channel in use this channel have 1GSa/s and 14M max memory lenghth.

Case D
If in channel pair 3&4  is only one channel in use this channel have 1GSa/s and 14M max memory lenghth.

Case E 
Case C  and  Case D  (= two channels in use, both 1GSa/s and both 14M max mem)

Case F
If in channel pair (1&2 or 3&4) both channels are in use they have 500MSa/s max and 7M memory max.

500MSa/s is not enough for 200MHz sinewave when Sinc interpolation is used if we want accurate amplitude information and time window is short - as it need be short in oscilloscope. But it is as usable as 250MSa/s for 50MHz.  Good amplitude accuracy can typically reach if input frequency is fsample /5.

Here attached image how it looks typically with different sample frequency  vs input sinewave frequency.
2.5 means that (example) 200MHz input and sample frequency  200*2.5=500MHz (Msa/s)

Many peoples have heard that all is ok if fin is < fNyquist (this is how rules are misunderstooded). Top in image is fin = fNyquist/1.25


Attached image is not from Siglent SDS1204X-E
It is from some my own teaching material without all finnish language explanations.
(btw, also you can find Agilent-Keysight paper about "number 5 thumb rules")
bottom of image there is multiplier  5. (f sample is 5 times f signal)

« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 03:56:01 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #93 on: October 28, 2017, 03:54:49 pm »
The French advert says 1 GS/s per channel. Having less than that would be a bit of a letdown, as using full speed and sampling would be less ideal. You've demonstrated nicely why.

We'll see :)
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #94 on: October 28, 2017, 04:07:34 pm »
The French advert says 1 GS/s per channel. Having less than that would be a bit of a letdown, as using full speed and sampling would be less ideal. You've demonstrated nicely why.

We'll see :)

French can advert what ever but this is really not fair way how to go.  Also in this ad they link wrong data sheet ( SDS1202X-E data sheet)  in this advert and wrong image. Why they do this shit - unknown.

What I previously told is how it is and this is explained also in chinese data sheet and manual. But perhaps this french is not interested about fact checking = trumpth, not truth.

If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Harmony OS
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #95 on: October 28, 2017, 04:13:18 pm »
French can advert what ever but this is really not fair way how to go.  Also in this ad they link wrong data sheet ( SDS1202X-E data sheet)  in this advert and wrong image. Why they do this shit - unknown.

What I previously told is how it is and this is explained also in chinese data sheet and manual. But perhaps this french is not interested about fact checking = trumpth, not truth.
Fair enough. Information from a seller with MHz for memory size shouldn't be taken at face value.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #96 on: October 28, 2017, 04:16:35 pm »
Here attached image how it looks typically with different sample frequency  vs input sinewave frequency.
2.5 means that (example) 200MHz input and sample frequency  200*2.5=500MHz (Msa/s)

Many peoples have heard that all is ok if fin is < fNyquist (this is how rules are misunderstooded). Top in image is fin = fNyquist/1.25

Attached image is not from Siglent SDS1204X-E
bottom of image there is multiplier  5. (f sample is 5 times f signal)
Seems more like using a crap scope on purpose to support nonsense. It is well known sinc/x reconstruction works well for frequencies little over fs/2.5. See the attached picture (sampling mode with infinite persistence on):
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 04:19:29 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #97 on: October 28, 2017, 05:14:57 pm »
Here attached image how it looks typically with different sample frequency  vs input sinewave frequency.
2.5 means that (example) 200MHz input and sample frequency  200*2.5=500MHz (Msa/s)

Many peoples have heard that all is ok if fin is < fNyquist (this is how rules are misunderstooded). Top in image is fin = fNyquist/1.25

Attached image is not from Siglent SDS1204X-E
bottom of image there is multiplier  5. (f sample is 5 times f signal)
Seems more like using a crap scope on purpose to support nonsense. It is well known sinc/x reconstruction works well for frequencies little over fs/2.5. See the attached picture (sampling mode with infinite persistence on):





Yes with better scopes where Sinc filter parameters are better. It depends...
(Also it looks that chinese GoodWill have ok.)

Example this.



Between images cable changed due to bad BNC connector.

« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 05:25:14 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Harmony OS
 

Offline alreadystarted

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #98 on: October 28, 2017, 08:34:13 pm »
I hope they fix the typo 1 Ga/s on the nameplate before production:/
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #99 on: October 29, 2017, 12:10:44 am »
How bode plot was made? Does it come with a built-in 30MHz signal generator?

Yes but the FG is an option which is not particularly cheap because it's an external box:

« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 12:25:28 am by EEVblog »
 


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