Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 182743 times)

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Offline marcopolo

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #350 on: November 28, 2017, 10:00:39 am »
I ordered a SDS1104X-E from Batronix  :)

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #351 on: November 29, 2017, 06:14:50 am »
I ordered a SDS1104X-E from Batronix  :)

After you get it it is good to know least one thing, lest with this FW version what is there now. This version is 7.6.1.12 out from package.

If any channel is set for < 5mV/div (1X selected) then first 30 minutes after start, it need note that it do some kind of partial small auto"cal" every 15 second. It can see on the screen as some kind of short pause/"hick-up".  Or example if scope is in Roll mode, every 15 second it restart rolling trace. Or if acquisition mode is average, this average resets etc.

If all channels are 5mV/div or more this do not happen at all. After 30min continuous power on, this process end and 500uV to 2mV/div works without this "autocal" or whgat ever it is.

If user do not know at all about this,  it can cause real confusion.

Btw, this can see also in EEVblog (Dave) made nice tear down video final part where he is playing bit fun with scope. This sudden display cleaning (position 18:57) is just one symptom about this process. It happen because scope was continuously running less than 30 minutes and channel V/div was under 5mV/div.

I think that Siglent might later change this approach.  Either by doing it differently or by giving the user the choice to choose whether the oscilloscope performs internal self-tuning during time what is typical for temperature equilibrium (>30min)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 06:18:25 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #352 on: November 29, 2017, 06:59:05 am »
That $69 wifi dongle looks suspiciously like the ones Microcenter sells for $5, I wonder if they would work?....
It's not.

In our option listings the WiFi dongle is listed as TL-WN725N.
http://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/cat-5520_TL-WN725N.html#overview

I've been told the gold version is the one to get, why I haven't sussed out yet.  :-//

Would be shitty design if it's an user-accessible USB port (with USB logo no less) but won't accept standard-compliant USB stuff.
Yep, we need to fiddle a bit with the WiFi dongle and see what else will work.

BUT you need buy the WIFI software option for it to work anyway unless a hack for it is found.
So I got a couple of the recommended WiFi dongles today as my beta unit wasn't shipped with one.
With the WiFi option installed operation was simple, just enter the WiFi Set submenu and enter your WiFi SSID and password OR use the Manual Scan to find your router/access point.
Then you can get from IP Set the assigned IP address to enter into your PC/laptop/tablet to use the scopes inbuilt Webserver to send SCPI commands or just manual remote control of the scope.



Note the WiFi symbol instead of LAN at bottom right.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 07:45:43 am by tautech »
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #353 on: November 29, 2017, 09:02:22 am »
If any channel is set for < 5mV/div (1X selected) then first 30 minutes after start, it need note that it do some kind of partial small auto"cal" every 15 second. It can see on the screen as some kind of short pause/"hick-up".  Or example if scope is in Roll mode, every 15 second it restart rolling trace. Or if acquisition mode is average, this average resets etc.

And so it begins.

The long list of "features"...  :popcorn:

 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #354 on: November 29, 2017, 09:24:20 am »
If any channel is set for < 5mV/div (1X selected) then first 30 minutes after start, it need note that it do some kind of partial small auto"cal" every 15 second. It can see on the screen as some kind of short pause/"hick-up".  Or example if scope is in Roll mode, every 15 second it restart rolling trace. Or if acquisition mode is average, this average resets etc.

And so it begins.

The long list of "features"...  :popcorn:

Rigol DS1000Z do not have  <5mV/div.  Oh yes it have 1 and 2mV/div scale but these are internally based to 5mV/div what isa lowest full resolution sensitivity. Nice el cheapo "lollipop feature".
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #355 on: November 29, 2017, 09:39:43 am »
If any channel is set for < 5mV/div (1X selected) then first 30 minutes after start, it need note that it do some kind of partial small auto"cal" every 15 second. It can see on the screen as some kind of short pause/"hick-up".  Or example if scope is in Roll mode, every 15 second it restart rolling trace. Or if acquisition mode is average, this average resets etc.
And so it begins.

The long list of "features"...  :popcorn:
Rigol DS1000Z do not have  <5mV/div.

Well that makes it perfectly OK for Siglent to do this screen clearing thing then.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 10:00:19 am by Fungus »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #356 on: November 29, 2017, 10:32:41 am »
If any channel is set for < 5mV/div (1X selected) then first 30 minutes after start, it need note that it do some kind of partial small auto"cal" every 15 second. It can see on the screen as some kind of short pause/"hick-up".  Or example if scope is in Roll mode, every 15 second it restart rolling trace. Or if acquisition mode is average, this average resets etc.
And so it begins.

The long list of "features"...  :popcorn:
Rigol DS1000Z do not have  <5mV/div.

Well that makes it perfectly OK for Siglent to do this screen clearing thing then.

Only when there is not thermal equilibrium time estimate reached it do some automatic self adjust and only in case when high sensitivity range 500uV/div - 2mV/div is in use.
Siglent is not only oscilloscope what do self adjustment when thermal drift with high sensitivity range in use.  Some oscilloscopes may have user selection for disable and enable this self adjust.  Is it first time you hear about this kind of things is oscilloscopes or other T&M instruments?
But, so or so, this solution can do more sophisticated way what it is implemented now. Still better than nothing.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline IAmBack

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #357 on: November 29, 2017, 10:47:55 am »
How protocol decoding works on these new Siglents? Do they take only on-screen data or they do processing of full buffer of data to be decoded?

Can somebody compare 100 and 200M versions (e.g. how 50/75/100M square wave look on both of the units)? Please :)
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #358 on: November 29, 2017, 10:51:33 am »
How protocol decoding works on these new Siglents? Do they take only on-screen data or they do processing of full buffer of data to be decoded?

Can somebody compare 100 and 200M versions (e.g. how 50/75/100M square wave look on both of the units)? Please :)
I'm going to do it right now even if my cables are not the best for higher frequencies. I will use a SDG6052X (the video of it is already online)
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #359 on: November 29, 2017, 11:03:46 am »
How protocol decoding works on these new Siglents? Do they take only on-screen data or they do processing of full buffer of data to be decoded?
Same as previous 1000X and X+ series and 2000X with user skill.  ;)
Display a long stream at slow timebase setting and then use zoom for detail. Event table can be displayed to help navigate.
Well shown in this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-series-oscilloscopes/msg1139758/#msg1139758
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #360 on: November 29, 2017, 11:13:26 am »
Standard delivery:
- oscilloscope
- 4 passive probes
- power cable
- usb cable
- certificate
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #361 on: November 29, 2017, 11:23:53 am »
How protocol decoding works on these new Siglents? Do they take only on-screen data or they do processing of full buffer of data to be decoded?


Siglent full buffer length is, always when scope is running, same as display width. Whole data is mapped to display. Even if full buffer is 14M it is same as display width. So, it decodes from currently used buffer length.  So, if need decode longer memory it need use slow timebase and then zoom for details, also with decoding. You can zoom and pan for wanted details. Never there is captured signal hidden from user eyes unlike scopes who have small slice from total lenghth displayed. Less visual blind time.

Also same for measurements.  Measurements use full buffer lenght/resolution. Not decimated reduced intermediate buffer or display memory.


If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #362 on: November 29, 2017, 11:32:24 am »
How protocol decoding works on these new Siglents? Do they take only on-screen data or they do processing of full buffer of data to be decoded?
Same as previous 1000X and X+ series and 2000X with user skill.  ;)
Display a long stream at slow timebase setting and then use zoom for detail. Event table can be displayed to help navigate.
But then you'll have to re-capture a longer trace if you want to see more and you will always need to use zoom mode which takes away screen space. That is pretty terrible if you are looking at 4 channels and the event you are triggering on takes some effort/waiting to happen. Why doesn't Siglent make their scopes work like anyone else's? Have the user select the memory depth and use that and never ever switch back to auto memory unless the user explicitly selects that mode.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #363 on: November 29, 2017, 01:19:22 pm »
Here is a nice image while decoding

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Offline Giuss

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #364 on: November 29, 2017, 02:15:26 pm »
A big improvement from the 2 channel version is the possibility to use 4 channels to decode SPI signals. I'd like to see a video or picture of SPI decoding in action
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #365 on: November 29, 2017, 02:33:24 pm »
Only when there is not thermal equilibrium time estimate reached it do some automatic self adjust and only in case when high sensitivity range 500uV/div - 2mV/div is in use.
Siglent is not only oscilloscope what do self adjustment when thermal drift with high sensitivity range in use.  Some oscilloscopes may have user selection for disable and enable this self adjust.

But the reason the Siglent clears the screen is...?

Is it first time you hear about this kind of things is oscilloscopes or other T&M instruments?

 :scared:
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #366 on: November 29, 2017, 04:28:26 pm »
a very nice thing keysight 3000x can do compared to scopes in simillar and lower class is that it can decode CAN and apply a dbc file to the decoded data (so ID 0xABCD will read as "Engine ECU #1" for example)
can this siglent or any siglent do that? makes it a lot easier to interpret data before going to a canbus analyzer... (if none can, please appropriate people, take note..)

by the way i was looking at simone's video



liking what i'm seeing so far..
It'd be nice to look at some high speed SPI and see how good/bad is it when reducing the timebase. I'd be happy to test it myself or bring a board to test but i have no reason to come to bologna before the new year, i'm busy all weekends... (well i'll probably be there at new year's but no work, all play :) )
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 04:35:06 pm by JPortici »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #367 on: November 29, 2017, 05:59:36 pm »
I found out on the Batronix website that the AWG and LA options are both split in an extra hardware option and a software license.
This is a bit weird IMO as the extra hardware option is not meaningful without the software license.

I am under the impression that they did this to make the cost seem lower, as the cost gets quite steep if you add both the hardware option and the software license.

If you would go for the 200MHz version of the 4 channel model, and throw in an AWG and LA option (each time both the hardware option and software license), the overall price reaches the 1000 EUR barrier and beyond.

I wonder if that price point is still competitive, or if there are other more appealing options at the competitors for an oscilloscope with AWG and LA options?
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #368 on: November 29, 2017, 06:06:04 pm »
a very nice thing keysight 3000x can do compared to scopes in simillar and lower class is that it can decode CAN and apply a dbc file to the decoded data (so ID 0xABCD will read as "Engine ECU #1" for example)
can this siglent or any siglent do that? makes it a lot easier to interpret data before going to a canbus analyzer... (if none can, please appropriate people, take note..)

by the way i was looking at simone's video



liking what i'm seeing so far..
It'd be nice to look at some high speed SPI and see how good/bad is it when reducing the timebase. I'd be happy to test it myself or bring a board to test but i have no reason to come to bologna before the new year, i'm busy all weekends... (well i'll probably be there at new year's but no work, all play :) )
Please feel free to come to visit us!
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #369 on: November 29, 2017, 06:11:04 pm »
I found out on the Batronix website that the AWG and LA options are both split in an extra hardware option and a software license.
This is a bit weird IMO as the extra hardware option is not meaningful without the software license.

I am under the impression that they did this to make the cost seem lower, as the cost gets quite steep if you add both the hardware option and the software license.

If you would go for the 200MHz version of the 4 channel model, and throw in an AWG and LA option (each time both the hardware option and software license), the overall price reaches the 1000 EUR barrier and beyond.

I wonder if that price point is still competitive, or if there are other more appealing options at the competitors for an oscilloscope with AWG and LA options?
Yes both SW and HW for generator and logic analyzer are splitter, the HW will be available probably close to Xmas or new year.
Today I connected the SDG6052X to the SDS1204X-E and it just worked immediately, I'm wondering if the FG SW option can also drive all features of other Siglent generators, I will find this out soon.

Also in the SDS2000X you have the same options HW and SW, in the end Siglent made a pkg all together.

Maybe we can think to offer something similar but first we want to get all options and try them. Please contact me for special request, thanks.
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #370 on: November 29, 2017, 06:33:53 pm »
I found out on the Batronix website that the AWG and LA options are both split in an extra hardware option and a software license.
This is a bit weird IMO as the extra hardware option is not meaningful without the software license.

I am under the impression that they did this to make the cost seem lower, as the cost gets quite steep if you add both the hardware option and the software license.

If you would go for the 200MHz version of the 4 channel model, and throw in an AWG and LA option (each time both the hardware option and software license), the overall price reaches the 1000 EUR barrier and beyond.

I wonder if that price point is still competitive, or if there are other more appealing options at the competitors for an oscilloscope with AWG and LA options?


i think that their reasoning was that you may have many scopes at fixed positions, but not everybody may need the AWG at the same time so one hardware -> multiple scopes? seems kinda dumb but whatever... i've seen far worse AWGs come for much more money
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #371 on: November 29, 2017, 06:53:52 pm »
It makes perfect sense that Siglent offers all three options in two parts excepting MSO.

Customers might have a WiFi dongle that works with the DSO so only need the SW activation.

Same principle for the AWG, so why buy the single channel USB AWG that BTW has a limited output range (p-p) if you already have a standalone Siglent AWG  The literature indicates it can control all existing Siglent AWG's, SDG1032X works fine with it, Bode plots and all.
Yes 2 parts for this option makes perfect sense too.

The MSO option is the unknown as yet we know so little about it. There are no pics online of the HW in the datasheet or manual only a few screenshots of usage near the end of the manual, one of which shows decoding of a Hexadecimal logic bus.
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Offline Pitrsek

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #372 on: November 29, 2017, 07:08:07 pm »
Do we know whether the MSO option is capable of bus decoding from the logic pod?
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #373 on: November 29, 2017, 07:09:16 pm »
Yes it does.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1204X-E released for domestic markets in China
« Reply #374 on: November 29, 2017, 07:11:33 pm »
Yes it does.
Seeing is believing. Siglent promised that as well (I specifically asked for it!) when they released the SDS2000 but decoding the digital channels didn't work.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


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