Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 160386 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15020
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1275 on: April 20, 2019, 09:37:57 am »
You have a consistant shift at the same location, so try changing the vdiv of the scope, if it happens at the same voltage then its something weird, if it happens at the same relative position then its the ADC having an in spec non linearity error, similar to a missed code,

To better research what is going on when we see what influences it, we can use the VGAC command to manually set the VGAC amplification, C1:VGAC? get the number then increment it by 1 or more, then set it back with C1:VGAC n ,
Ah nice, more SCPI commands. Is there a resource where this one comes from? I’m still looking for the command that turns segmented mode on, and the nr of segments. Besides that, most of the testing goes automatically. Which is quite the time saver.
Does turning the knob in fine mode also change the VGAC (a new concept to me, have research it sometimes), I alway thought it was (software) value scaling, and did not use it for that reason.
Rerouter has dug into the depths of the X-E's and found lots of undocumented SCPI commands, from another thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-and-sag1021-unwanted-dc-offset/msg2333568/#msg2333568
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Rerouter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4087
  • Country: au
  • Question Everything... Except This Statement
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1276 on: April 20, 2019, 09:59:06 am »
Here is a prettied up older copy, the command your likely after is one of these
Code: [Select]
ACQuire_Way           ACQW  Command / Query ACQUISITION Specifies the acquisition mode.
ACquire_SeQuence_Mode ACSQM Command / Query ACQUISITION
ACquire_SeQuence_Seg  ACSQS Command         ACQUISITION
 

yes the fine vdiv does adjust the VGAC, the calibration process just builds up a table of VGAC codes / DACC offset codes for correct 0 position, it skips some increments and uses the same for multiple VDIV's, this is part of why there are accuracy limits of displayed voltage, as at any vdiv you can be half a step of the VGA off from ideal.

I've been wrapping it up into a nicer command tree for the EEZ studio project, but there is just so many poorly documented ones that it takes a while.
 
The following users thanked this post: HendriXML

Offline HendriXML

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Country: nl
    • KiCad-BOM-reporter
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1277 on: April 20, 2019, 09:59:49 am »
You have a consistant shift at the same location, so try changing the vdiv of the scope, if it happens at the same voltage then its something weird, if it happens at the same relative position then its the ADC having an in spec non linearity error, similar to a missed code,

To better research what is going on when we see what influences it, we can use the VGAC command to manually set the VGAC amplification, C1:VGAC? get the number then increment it by 1 or more, then set it back with C1:VGAC n ,
Ah nice, more SCPI commands. Is there a resource where this one comes from? I’m still looking for the command that turns segmented mode on, and the nr of segments. Besides that, most of the testing goes automatically. Which is quite the time saver.
Does turning the knob in fine mode also change the VGAC (a new concept to me, have research it sometimes), I alway thought it was (software) value scaling, and did not use it for that reason.
Rerouter has dug into the depths of the X-E's and found lots of undocumented SCPI commands, from another thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-and-sag1021-unwanted-dc-offset/msg2333568/#msg2333568
I know and I’m making good use off it, but I think it’s only for the AWG?
“I ‘d like to reincarnate as a dung beetle, ‘cause there’s nothing wrong with a shitty life, real misery comes from high expectations”
 

Offline HendriXML

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Country: nl
    • KiCad-BOM-reporter
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1278 on: April 20, 2019, 10:47:41 am »
In the documentation it says:
If the decimal is greater than 127, it should minus 255.Then the value is code value. Such as the wave data is ―FC‖ convert to decimal is 252. So the code value is 252-255 = -3.

But that would also mean that 0=0, and 255-255=0 too,  :-//

Is this calculation correct? Then I might not have implemented this correctly.  :-[
I treat them as signed 8 bit values, thus minus 256.

I’ll do some testing, that would be something that is easily solved.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 10:51:48 am by HendriXML »
“I ‘d like to reincarnate as a dung beetle, ‘cause there’s nothing wrong with a shitty life, real misery comes from high expectations”
 

Offline Rerouter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4087
  • Country: au
  • Question Everything... Except This Statement
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1279 on: April 20, 2019, 11:29:21 am »
Not sure which command your referencing, for the VGAC it is an unsigned number, however it splits ranges at code 128 (low amplification mode vs high amplification mode), so 0-127 is low amplification mode, 128-255 is high amplification mode.

I went into more detail a few pages back in this thread,
 

Offline HendriXML

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Country: nl
    • KiCad-BOM-reporter
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1280 on: April 20, 2019, 07:43:42 pm »
Not sure which command your referencing, for the VGAC it is an unsigned number, however it splits ranges at code 128 (low amplification mode vs high amplification mode), so 0-127 is low amplification mode, 128-255 is high amplification mode.

I went into more detail a few pages back in this thread,
I figured out!
But the story is somewhat confusing. The quote:
Code: [Select]
If the decimal is greater than 127, it should minus 255.Then the value is code value. Such as the wave data is ―FC‖ convert to decimal is 252. So the code value is 252-255 = -3.comes from the documentation of the WAVEFORM? | WF? command.
I implemented this treating the rawvalues as a signed 8 bit integer. But that would be -256. So not the documented way. For a moment I thought I screwed up.

The problem is, that I convert this at two places, and in the averaging part I was still using the suggested (documented) way, which brings every value 1 step up above 127 (thus below 0) compared to the other method.
I have the strong suspicion that the documentation is wrong. It should say:
Code: [Select]
If the decimal is greater than 127, it should minus 256. Then the value is code value. Such as the wave data is ―FC‖ convert to decimal is 252. So the code value is 252-256 = -4.
Which is treating them as signed 8 bit values. Without having two ways of ending up with a resulting 0.

Also this solves the strange glitch around the value of 0.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 07:46:47 pm by HendriXML »
“I ‘d like to reincarnate as a dung beetle, ‘cause there’s nothing wrong with a shitty life, real misery comes from high expectations”
 

Offline HendriXML

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Country: nl
    • KiCad-BOM-reporter
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1281 on: April 20, 2019, 08:01:38 pm »
Hmm, I think the glitch just shifted to some voltage above 0. The way I average things (by throwing away the extremes) results in very fine details/errors, but may also effect the way these errors shows themselves. I have to sit on my thinking stone for this one.
“I ‘d like to reincarnate as a dung beetle, ‘cause there’s nothing wrong with a shitty life, real misery comes from high expectations”
 

Offline Rerouter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4087
  • Country: au
  • Question Everything... Except This Statement
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1282 on: April 20, 2019, 08:27:55 pm »
instead of throwing away those extemes, you could just do statistical culling,

Take Average of a sample window,
Get however many standard deviations you desire,
Cull any readings outside of that window and take the median value.

A mathematician will probably hunt me to the end of the earth for suggesting it, but see how you go.
 

Offline HendriXML

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Country: nl
    • KiCad-BOM-reporter
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1283 on: April 20, 2019, 09:31:46 pm »
The location of the glitches stay at the same voltage while changing to a higher sensitivity (100mV -> 20mV). So these gitches are not related to the adc.
If I do a offset on the AWG they rise with that offset.
The problem is that my analogue glitches where of about the same size as the digital ones. That is confusing.

If I however go down in sensitivity, the digital glitches will show very clear.

It show clearly that the "ramp -256" should be the correct one. The " ramp-255" has as expected a double 0 outcome.
“I ‘d like to reincarnate as a dung beetle, ‘cause there’s nothing wrong with a shitty life, real misery comes from high expectations”
 

Offline HendriXML

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Country: nl
    • KiCad-BOM-reporter
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1284 on: April 20, 2019, 09:43:07 pm »
instead of throwing away those extemes, you could just do statistical culling,

Take Average of a sample window,
Get however many standard deviations you desire,
Cull any readings outside of that window and take the median value.

A mathematician will probably hunt me to the end of the earth for suggesting it, but see how you go.
The reason I think throwing them away is a good thing, is because the extremes can be just be spikes because someone started the microwave. Those shouldn't be averaged with just noisy values.

But we probably think alike, I'm having some foreign language issues here...

Also in my case I know that I measure a slow ramp, so any "details" would be errors. And I'm in the process of hunting them down  :box:
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 10:23:09 pm by HendriXML »
“I ‘d like to reincarnate as a dung beetle, ‘cause there’s nothing wrong with a shitty life, real misery comes from high expectations”
 

Offline HendriXML

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Country: nl
    • KiCad-BOM-reporter
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1285 on: April 20, 2019, 10:08:55 pm »
For those who like to see the stairsteps at 2V/div. (The wrong calculation also does not go negative enough!)

I'm glad the 0-crossing error can be fixed. Now I've still some analogue glitches (or AWG problems, but that would not be my first guess) to tackle. May'be some ringing, because it also repeats its self, but does not variate with VDiv settings. This I will continue in the other thread to keep this one clean.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 10:17:01 pm by HendriXML »
“I ‘d like to reincarnate as a dung beetle, ‘cause there’s nothing wrong with a shitty life, real misery comes from high expectations”
 

Offline TOWERSIGNALS

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 5
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1286 on: April 20, 2019, 11:23:59 pm »
Somewhere on this thread I think there was a "scope comparison chart" posted. I've done several searches but can't seem to find it. I'm looking at the Siglent SDS1000x-e line but wanted to compare it with others. Thanks.
 

Offline HendriXML

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Country: nl
    • KiCad-BOM-reporter
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1287 on: April 21, 2019, 04:28:18 am »
So I did some investigation on the other glitches I still get.

The graph:
* Shows the averaging of 190 values, 50% in the extremes discarded
* 10.0 mV / div but also the same is seen on 100mV/div and 20 mV/div (so no ADC issues here)

For me this is a strong indication that the SAG1021 has a DAC or other digital issue. Also this shift up does not restore (which would be an indication of something more analogue).




« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 06:05:20 am by HendriXML »
“I ‘d like to reincarnate as a dung beetle, ‘cause there’s nothing wrong with a shitty life, real misery comes from high expectations”
 

Offline HendriXML

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Country: nl
    • KiCad-BOM-reporter
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1288 on: April 21, 2019, 04:48:50 am »
Same settings, but with the ofset of the AWG, from 0.353 to 0.343 V.

The relative position of the glitch seem exactly the same! (The offset may drift a bit so an exact difference of 0.01 V should not have been be expected.)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 04:55:21 am by HendriXML »
“I ‘d like to reincarnate as a dung beetle, ‘cause there’s nothing wrong with a shitty life, real misery comes from high expectations”
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15020
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1289 on: April 21, 2019, 07:19:16 am »
Somewhere on this thread I think there was a "scope comparison chart" posted. I've done several searches but can't seem to find it. I'm looking at the Siglent SDS1000x-e line but wanted to compare it with others. Thanks.
The sticky one pinned at the top of the Test Equipment board ?

For the 4ch Siglent X-E's just use a search with the exact model # and the one your want to compare it to.
There's quite a few comparison threads.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline 4x1md

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: il
    • 4X1MD on Github
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1290 on: May 01, 2019, 04:45:44 am »
What is the latest available firmware version?

Offline Mortymore

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 111
  • Country: pt
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1291 on: May 01, 2019, 04:52:38 am »
What is the latest available firmware version?

SDS1xx4X-E Firmware (4-Channel Models) – 6.1.26 (Release Date 09.26.18 )
SDS1202X-E Firmware (2-Channel Model) – 1.3.23 (Release Date 09.27.18 )

https://www.siglent.eu/Downloads
https://www.siglentamerica.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/digital-oscilloscopes/
Because I'm only human... A mistake is not the problem. Not learn from it and not trying to correct it, is.
Don't be afraid to make mistakes, or you will end up doing nothing, being scared to even try to do something.
Don't search for excuses for your mistakes. Find solutions.
 

Offline 4x1md

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: il
    • 4X1MD on Github
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1292 on: May 01, 2019, 05:02:56 am »
There must be something newer. I have 7.1.x.

Offline Mortymore

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 111
  • Country: pt
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1293 on: May 01, 2019, 08:42:04 am »
I think the complete firmware version numbering is for example like this: 7.1.6.1.26

If I'm not mistaken on the Siglent website its only the last 3 groups of digits that counts
Because I'm only human... A mistake is not the problem. Not learn from it and not trying to correct it, is.
Don't be afraid to make mistakes, or you will end up doing nothing, being scared to even try to do something.
Don't search for excuses for your mistakes. Find solutions.
 

Online Old Printer

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 494
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1294 on: May 01, 2019, 12:08:20 pm »
I have had my 1104X-E about a week. My firmware is 8.1.6.1.26   Hardware version 01-04  Cal certificate is dated Feb-19-2019
 

Offline rf-loop

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3042
  • Country: fi
  • Starting with DLL21
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1295 on: May 01, 2019, 05:41:09 pm »
I have had my 1104X-E about a week. My firmware is 8.1.6.1.26   Hardware version 01-04  Cal certificate is dated Feb-19-2019

These bolded are important 8.1.6.1.26 when we normally talk about FW version.

example 7.1.6.1.26  and 8.1.6.1.26  are same when look as user.

first 7 or 8 do not care. (no meaning for users)

x.1.6.1.26

This 1 tell  SDS1004X-E Operating System-V1 (Only For 4-Channel )
Better explained in SDS1004X-E Operating System-V1 .zip package included pdf.
Lets hope no one anymore have 0 in this place in 4 channel model. If have, please update, following tightly instructions.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Cpx

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1296 on: May 02, 2019, 07:29:40 am »
Does  SDS1104X-E have digital filters like band pass, low pass , high pass and band gap?
I want a scope upgrade but i need those filters, since i do power electronics work.
Thanks  :)

 

Online TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1056
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1297 on: May 02, 2019, 07:54:24 am »
I am not sure about Siglent scopes, but micsig tablet scopes (I think it is the plus model that includes all the options) and GWInstek GDS1054B (installed as an APP that you can download from their website) have digital filters. 

Micsig: High Low Pass
GWInstek: High Low Band Pass

The GDS1054B can be hacked to activate serial decoding, 300MHz (actual frontend BW is 100MHz, but can visualize signals up to 350MHz), search function, segmented memory.  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/possible-gw-instek-gds-1000b-hack/msg1252772/#msg1252772
 

Offline Cpx

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1298 on: May 02, 2019, 08:18:54 am »
SDS1104X-E is in my interest, the alternative in my budget is the famous ds1054z but since its ui is so slow i am searching for  something better... :o
GDS1054B is out of my price range  :-[
 

Online TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1056
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1299 on: May 02, 2019, 08:27:45 am »
GDS1054B is $390 - $420 in the US
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf