Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 607561 times)

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Offline blurpy

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1525 on: November 01, 2019, 11:11:27 am »
@tautech - Good tips, I'll do some more experiments when I get back to the scope.

@Performa01 - I've never used another scope, so I don't know what I'm missing (good or bad), but while researching I was looking into the Rigol 1054Z, and the Siglent seemed to be quite a lot more responsive from what I could see (on YouTube). So I see your point :) I'm generally very happy with the performance and the device. Great theory btw! What you're describing with memory limits during acquisition seems plausible. Siglent is maybe not able to improve it much further because of hardware, but possibly their more expensive DSOs have the capabilities to avoid it.
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1526 on: November 01, 2019, 01:00:42 pm »
@Performa01 - I've never used another scope, so I don't know what I'm missing (good or bad), but while researching I was looking into the Rigol 1054Z, and the Siglent seemed to be quite a lot more responsive from what I could see (on YouTube). So I see your point :) I'm generally very happy with the performance and the device. Great theory btw! What you're describing with memory limits during acquisition seems plausible. Siglent is maybe not able to improve it much further because of hardware, but possibly their more expensive DSOs have the capabilities to avoid it.
The Rigol DS1000Z series do not have deep measurements, quite the opposite - they are essentially limited to the screen buffer. It certainly would be very embarassing if measurements would cause any noticeable lag in these devices.

Even the current Siglent flagship DSO SDS5000X is based on the Zynq platform. Of course it has a lot more acquisition memory, faster ADCs and I would also assume a more powerful version of the Zynq chip. The fundamental problem remains though - the ARM CPU has to access (and lock) the sample memory while analyzing it to get the measurement values. The fast internal memory is not nearly big enough and the external CPU memory is certainly not fast enough.

As mentioned before, even much more expensive so called "A-brand" DSOs get laggy pretty quickly when performing deep measurements on embedded platforms.

Only non-embedded upper midrange or high-end platforms can effectively circumvent this, because there is a clear separation between acquisition memory and the (huge) main memory of the PC platform. Then we can do what I've described before: transfer the acquisition data to the PC main memory via a high speed interface as needed, thus causing little interference on the acquisition process. There is a downside too - since there is no direct access to the sample data, these scopes cannot offer intesity or color grading as a standard, but need a special "persistence" mode for this, which comes with its own bunch of limitations.


 

Offline borjam

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1527 on: November 06, 2019, 10:57:35 am »
I think you resumed it pretty well.

Just want to add that with the new development toolchains available to these new embedded procs, there is a tendency to have more overhead in all of the code (the tradeoff of faster time-to-market...). This overhead also penalizes the speed.

These equipments are no more compatible with fully Assembly development project (optimized to the extreme).
That overhead can also help write less buggy code and make it much easier to maintain. So there is always a reason. Of course there is a balance and sometimes it's difficult to strike.
 

Offline mematyi

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1528 on: November 07, 2019, 10:40:56 am »
Hi!

I am in search of a new (first) budget DSO, and I recently met this SDS1104X-e scope. I have had some analog ones, but I wanted a digital scope for years. I've read various reviews of it, and it seems to be the budget king of this category of scopes. My price point is exactly this scope, about 500Euros max.

I am in absolutely not a hurry buying a DSO, that is why I am asking you for an advice.
Do you think that in this budget scope dump, Siglent or Owon or Rigol, any budget brands will come out with a new model that has even better specifications and worth waiting a few more months?
This scope mentioned in this thread is about 2 years old, still way newer than the Rigol 1054Z, but I wonder if a new buyer with moderate, but certainly not beginner electrical experience should wait some more time.

I have seen the new Rigol DS1202Z-e, but it is only 2 channel, and I wasn't able to find and pros compared to the Siglents. Perhaps Rigol might come out with an upgraded 4-banger.
 

Offline Gabri74

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1529 on: November 07, 2019, 05:17:04 pm »
I am in search of a new (first) budget DSO, and I recently met this SDS1104X-e scope

Go for it!
I'm an happy previous owner of a Rigol 1054Z and now an happier owner of a Siglent SDS1204X-e (the 200MHz version).
Some random plus points of the Siglent:
- obviously newer design
- measures and decoders use full memory buffer. Rigol is limited to display memory
- faster interface, even with measures and decoding and cursors on the interface is not too slow
- firmware is (in my opinion) quite stable. Siglent seems to be faster in addressing bugs and community feedback
- has all decoders included, and also can decode CAN bus (Rigol can't)
- Remote web interface is really good for an instrument of this price range
- Logic analyzer and bode plot available as options
- History (segmented memory) is really useful once you learn how to use it (Rigol also has a kind of segmented memory option but is unusable)

You can find in the forum the really good deep review by Performa01 for the Siglent

 

Offline CiscERsang

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1530 on: November 07, 2019, 06:12:56 pm »
Greeting all,

While decoding...
what are the red dots at bytes as per pic attached?
Some bytes don't have that, some have.

thanks
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 06:17:57 pm by CiscERsang »
 

Offline mematyi

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1531 on: November 07, 2019, 09:12:26 pm »
Thanks for your reply!
I have gone through those reviews. I am low on precious freetime, as I am still writing my Master Thesis currently, but as far as I can recall, they were mostly very positive.
No doubt this is a fine scope, I am particularly interested in the upcoming releases, if anybody has manufacturer or R&D info, to buy this scope or wait a bit for an even better deal. As far as I can see, Memory depth and software functions are skyrocketing even on very low-end scopes. The automated Bode-plotting function seems to be awesome for the first sight. I wish only the screens were bigger and better resolution. The 800x480 is a joke for even a mobile phone these days.

 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1532 on: November 07, 2019, 09:19:42 pm »
Go for it!

Subscripe this.
Got the 1054Z and the 1104x-e, the siglent doesn´t have the tons of feature the rigol comes with.
But what it got, it works..
The UI in general seems more "adult" to me and the "enhanced resolution" filter function is a killer feature against the rigol.

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1533 on: November 08, 2019, 08:17:58 am »
While decoding...
what are the red dots at bytes as per pic attached?
Some bytes don't have that, some have.
The red dot indicates that the display of the decoded value does not fit the box - in your case, the closing apostrophe of most ASCII decodes is truncated.

This appears to be some borderline situation though and it is certainly funny that '1' fits the space, whereas the firmware thinks that e.g. 'i' does not ;)

 
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Offline CiscERsang

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1534 on: November 08, 2019, 06:27:22 pm »
While decoding...
what are the red dots at bytes as per pic attached?
Some bytes don't have that, some have.
The red dot indicates that the display of the decoded value does not fit the box - in your case, the closing apostrophe of most ASCII decodes is truncated.

This appears to be some borderline situation though and it is certainly funny that '1' fits the space, whereas the firmware thinks that e.g. 'i' does not ;)

Moreover, it doesn't know how looks like, for example, the "question mark" and may be other chars which I didn't try.
Anyway there's a lot of to do with the next FW update. I have a list of wishes in terms of decoding.  :)

Thank you!
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 06:29:13 pm by CiscERsang »
 

Offline mematyi

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1535 on: November 13, 2019, 09:06:07 pm »
It might be a dumb question, but I noticed on the pictures, that the scope has a menu on/off button at the bottom left corner.

Does it actually switches off menus and enhancing the viewing area, or  the menu items turn off and the space remains blank?
 

Offline TauIs2Pi

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1536 on: November 14, 2019, 06:31:20 am »
It might be a dumb question, but I noticed on the pictures, that the scope has a menu on/off button at the bottom left corner.

Does it actually switches off menus and enhancing the viewing area, or  the menu items turn off and the space remains blank?

Disabling the menus leaves a blank space. That blank space is then used for the decoding lanes which would otherwise crop the bottom of the display when menus are enabled.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 06:41:21 am by TauIs2Pi »
 
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Offline Gabri74

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1537 on: November 14, 2019, 02:18:54 pm »
Disabling the menus leaves a blank space. That blank space is then used for the decoding lanes which would otherwise crop the bottom of the display when menus are enabled.

I use it also to close any opened pop-up menu without making any choice. I find it more handy than pushing the multifunction/variable knob, because sometime It makes me wrongly choose the above/below option.
 

Offline mematyi

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1538 on: November 14, 2019, 03:10:38 pm »
Thanks!

Can you please tell me the diameters of the screen?

Is it standard 16:9 7", or some odd(preferably larger area) type?

I am really liking this scope, but the screen seems to be on the smaller side, given the mobile phones are around 6" these days.

 

Offline HendriXML

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1539 on: November 14, 2019, 03:18:13 pm »
The way i see it:
The resolution of the screen matches the bit depth (200 adc values) just fine. The size of the screen matches the resolution just fine. Before I bought it, I wished for large screens (was used to a usb scope on a monitor), now I think its fine as it is.
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Offline daveyk

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1540 on: November 14, 2019, 05:48:00 pm »
Hello Gabri74,

The display is excellent.  My main issues, that most likely do NOT affect 99% of other scope users is:

  • Personally, I find the cursors, difficult to operate.  I know you hit the bottom and it cycles between adjusting one or the other or both.  It should just cycle between adjust one or the other.  If four cursors are shown, same thing.  It is difficult for me to know which one is currently the one the will be adjusted.  That may be picking, but use a Tektronix TDS3000 series.  You easily know exactly which cursor you are about to move. Maybe it is not as versatile, but when troubleshooting, making measurements and what not, I want to concentrate on what I am testing and not having to waste attention on the scope or having to squint to figure out what cursor (or two cursors at once) are about to move when I turn the knob.  Maybe I'm dumb, or just use to a much easier scope to operate.

  • You can not set the scope reference levels for pulse width measurement.  The entire world does not measure pulse width ar 50%. Sometimes, it is measured between 10% and 10%, or 90% and 90%.  I coulds accept that for a cheap scope, but I have email them and was told that's a good idea and the idea was sent on to engineers in China 1.5 years ago. Since then, I have seen two software updates released and that issue has not been address.  I don't know if they are even planning on it.  Maybe that should be a feature for a $3000-$10000 scope?  It probably would be so easy to add the feature in the scope's firmware?  I personally would have bought one more of them, and I think I could have sold a few to my colleagues with that feature added.  So since last year, I just purchased another used Tek TDS3032 and so have my colleague that uses my software.  My SDS1204X-E has basically set in my storage closet for 6+ months now without being turned on.  i get it out and get it certified once a year in case I have to rely on it as a manual backup scope.
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Other than those two issues, I do like the scope and its presentation is so beautiful.  It has a great LCD.

Dave

P.S. - Communications back and forth with the scope works fine through the network connection.  I never could get the USB connection to work reliably.
 

Offline 17_29bis

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1541 on: December 14, 2019, 07:25:30 am »
Hello,

I already forgot if we have a dedicated thread for Siglent SDS1204X-E bugs but this is what I found strange in the latest firmware  6.1.33
I am curios  about the trigger voltage level reported when different trigger types are selected:

Example 1  - correct behavior,trigger type: PULSE,  trig. level - 0V:



Example 2 - strange behavior, trigger type: EDGE, trig level - 29V




Is a bug or it  has some explanation?

EXPLANATION: those 2 screenshots show that for triggering we use different channels. And while CH3 is actually turned off this is what creates the confusion, so this not a bug but the operator's  error. On the other hand I am not sure why CH3 is allowed to be used for triggering at all if its turned off.

Secondly: when trigger coupling is set to AC or LF filter the trigger voltage level trace is not visible. It is worth mentioning that in DC/HF filter mode the trigger voltage  level trace becomes visible only after the user changes (no matter how much) the trigger level.




« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 07:35:47 am by 17_29bis »
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1542 on: December 14, 2019, 08:46:03 am »
Sometimes you want to trigger off some signal, but don't want it use screen space, because there is nothing interesting about it.
In that case you trigger from that channel and switch it off the screen. Which is exactly same behaviour as if you use External Trigger input.
Most of the scopes nowadays allow switching channel off while using it for trigger. It is a useful thing that I use very often.
 

Offline 17_29bis

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1543 on: December 14, 2019, 08:58:00 am »
Sometimes you want to trigger off some signal, but don't want it use screen space, because there is nothing interesting about it.
In that case you trigger from that channel and switch it off the screen. Which is exactly same behaviour as if you use External Trigger input.
Most of the scopes nowadays allow switching channel off while using it for trigger. It is a useful thing that I use very often.

This particular oscilloscope allows you to hide a particular channel (its  trace) but the channel should be turned on. I assumed that if the channel is turned off then it becomes nonfunctional i.e. it cannot be used for anything (triggering etc). Am I wrong? 
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1544 on: December 14, 2019, 09:37:22 am »
It's correct, you cannot trigger from a disabled channel (but you can hide the trace of any enabled channel).

Each trigger has its individual settings, so when browsing through the various trigger types the trigger channel as well as the trigger level(s) change accordingly.

The trigger setup doesn't allow you to select a disabled channel for triggering, but the stored settings for the individual trigger types do not change because of this. Consequently you are able to set the trigger to a non-active channel by selecting a different type that previously used that channel.
This is only a minor inconvenience in my book, especially as there is no real solution for this; if the originally stored trigger channel for a certain trigger type is not active, what should the DSO choose for you? The lowest enabled channel? Chances are that this isn't what you want in certain situations either.

Apart from that, I'm constantly reminding Siglent of one fundamental rule:
Never ever permanently change any user settings.

The AC (and LF-reject) trigger can be highly dynamic and the absolute trigger level position would change all the time, hence would have to be displayed permanently. This might consume valuable processing power and would be visually distracting on top of that. You still see the selected relative trigger level in the trigger info tab.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1545 on: December 14, 2019, 09:42:37 am »
Sometimes you want to trigger off some signal, but don't want it use screen space, because there is nothing interesting about it.
In that case you trigger from that channel and switch it off the screen. Which is exactly same behaviour as if you use External Trigger input.
Most of the scopes nowadays allow switching channel off while using it for trigger. It is a useful thing that I use very often.

This particular oscilloscope allows you to hide a particular channel (its  trace) but the channel should be turned on. I assumed that if the channel is turned off then it becomes nonfunctional i.e. it cannot be used for anything (triggering etc). Am I wrong?

I don't know about Siglent, but Keysight MSOX3104T works exactly like that: If you set it to trigger form CH3, and press channel button to disable it, it will disappear from screen but it will keep on triggering from it. It can be confusing sometimes, but useful...
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1546 on: December 14, 2019, 09:59:16 am »
Sometimes you want to trigger off some signal, but don't want it use screen space, because there is nothing interesting about it.
In that case you trigger from that channel and switch it off the screen. Which is exactly same behaviour as if you use External Trigger input.
Most of the scopes nowadays allow switching channel off while using it for trigger. It is a useful thing that I use very often.

This particular oscilloscope allows you to hide a particular channel (its  trace) but the channel should be turned on. I assumed that if the channel is turned off then it becomes nonfunctional i.e. it cannot be used for anything (triggering etc). Am I wrong?

I don't know about Siglent, but Keysight MSOX3104T works exactly like that: If you set it to trigger form CH3, and press channel button to disable it, it will disappear from screen but it will keep on triggering from it. It can be confusing sometimes, but useful...
Siglent's are different, there are 3 states for a channel; OFF, ON and ON but Hidden.
In only the ON state can a channel be triggered from; ON and visible or ON and Hidden.

I agree with Performa01, we drive the tool and NOT the tool makes choices for us....unless we select Autoset.  ::)
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Offline CiscERsang

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1547 on: December 14, 2019, 07:32:51 pm »
Greetings,
Could anyone say me something on this matter?

f=19.2kHz is plausible value? Does this mean that signal is being sent ~19000 times per second. Or?
 






 

Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1548 on: December 14, 2019, 08:34:27 pm »
No, it is related to the time it takes for the signal to swing from high to low to high.  Nothing related to how many times the signal transitions levels.
 
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Offline 17_29bis

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1549 on: December 15, 2019, 01:58:58 am »

The AC (and LF-reject) trigger can be highly dynamic and the absolute trigger level position would change all the time, hence would have to be displayed permanently. This might consume valuable processing power and would be visually distracting on top of that. You still see the selected relative trigger level in the trigger info tab.

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed it has been already discussed several times, for example:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/775/

I simply forgot about it.

 


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