Author Topic: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes  (Read 271550 times)

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Offline zserg

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1725 on: September 22, 2020, 07:23:26 pm »
I may do this upgrade, as I would really enjoy a detented encoder on the intensity/adjust encoder.  Is there anything special that I should know about this upgrade before doing it?

Not anything that comes to my mind straight away. Unsoldering the old one was pretty straightforward with the desoldering wick.
The encoder I've listed above makes an audible click when turning even at low speeds - one might find it annoying.
I'd prefer a "softer" one with lower turning torque, but this Bourns was the only option I was able to source locally quickly.

 

Offline jlo

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1726 on: September 24, 2020, 02:12:03 pm »
Hi, planning to buy my first oscilloscope, is the 1104X-E still recommended?

I'm studying to become an electrical engineer and will use it for audio projects with oscillators and filters as well as more digital automation projects with microcontrollers. As I learn more I want to be able to progress to more advanced projects. :)
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1727 on: September 25, 2020, 01:29:15 am »
Hi, planning to buy my first oscilloscope, is the 1104X-E still recommended?

I'm studying to become an electrical engineer and will use it for audio projects with oscillators and filters as well as more digital automation projects with microcontrollers. As I learn more I want to be able to progress to more advanced projects. :)
Welcome to the forum.

You can't go wrong with one.

Look at its competitors, who else offers 500uV/div sensitivity, two 1 GSa/s ADC's each with 14 Mpts memory support, Bode plot and web server capability.
As a first scope these will serve you well for many years.
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Offline 4x1md

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1728 on: September 25, 2020, 09:40:33 am »
I like my unit very much. It was a very good investment in my home lab. In general it has a good hardware with software and UI/UX which can be much improved. During the lockdown in March I used it for working at home and the results I got were as good, as the results I got from much more expensive Tektronix and Keysight scopes I use at work. Still, compared to Tektronix and Keysight I have at work, it feels cheaper but you get what you pay for.
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1729 on: September 25, 2020, 09:14:01 pm »
Quote
who else offers 500uV/div sensitivity

When they were real, that´s another question.
By the way:

Today, we want to save a signal as matlab file to usbstick.
To be more precisely, the FFT.
Unfortunately, it saves only the channel, not the mathfunction from it - Did we miss something to do ?
Or couldn´t do the sds1104X-E it in general ?
If yes, that would be a showstopper.


Offline Ringmodulator

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1730 on: September 28, 2020, 10:48:05 am »
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?

I've been wondering the same thing.  :popcorn:

I have done it right after purchasing bc this non-detent encoder was driving me nuts - pretty weird design decision given that they have detented ones for vertical/horizontal anyway.
In fact, I've even taken the photos to dump here, but I'm a lazy arse so that never happened.  :-[
I can't remember the P/N of the original non-detented one, but it turned out to be some sort of Chinese unobtanium. After searching a bit through what ALPS/Bourns/Omron offer, the closest I was able to find dimension-wise was Bourns PEC12R-4220F-S0024.
To my taste it has a bit too much detent force, otherwise it has been working absolutely fine for the last half year.
[attach=1][attach=2]

UPD:
I still have the original part, it has no P/N, but LJV embossed on it.

Thank you, that was the information, I was looking for!

I have done such a mod to my 2 other scopes and the only regret was, not doing it in the fist place.

Chris

 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1731 on: September 29, 2020, 03:14:39 am »
Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?

I've been wondering the same thing.  :popcorn:

I have done it right after purchasing bc this non-detent encoder was driving me nuts - pretty weird design decision given that they have detented ones for vertical/horizontal anyway.
In fact, I've even taken the photos to dump here, but I'm a lazy arse so that never happened.  :-[
I can't remember the P/N of the original non-detented one, but it turned out to be some sort of Chinese unobtanium. After searching a bit through what ALPS/Bourns/Omron offer, the closest I was able to find dimension-wise was Bourns PEC12R-4220F-S0024.
To my taste it has a bit too much detent force, otherwise it has been working absolutely fine for the last half year.
[attach=1][attach=2]

UPD:
I still have the original part, it has no P/N, but LJV embossed on it.

Thank you, that was the information, I was looking for!

I have done such a mod to my 2 other scopes and the only regret was, not doing it in the fist place.

Chris

Later after I'm back in my homeland and enough time I will open one SDS1000X-E and carefully look if there is possibility to do "hard core" mechanical (and possible circuit) modification for higher class Grayhill optical encoder least for this multipurpose encoder. Yes front panel PCB need of course mod and perhaps more... Least it is fun to investigate...

There are three names for good encoders... Grayhill  and  Grayhill and then also Grayhill.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 03:24:49 am by rf-loop »
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Offline exe

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1732 on: September 30, 2020, 09:02:13 am »
There are three names for good encoders... Grayhill  and  Grayhill and then also Grayhill.

Jeez, those are expensive  :-\
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1733 on: September 30, 2020, 01:19:58 pm »
There are three names for good encoders... Grayhill  and  Grayhill and then also Grayhill.

Jeez, those are expensive  :-\

Cheap shit in important place may kill or be astronomic amount more expensive. It depends....

But naturally High-End or "state of art" grade expensive ones are overkill in cheap scope...  ;)
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline SMB784

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1734 on: September 30, 2020, 01:44:27 pm »
If one is looking for optical encoder variants, I believe the CTS Electrocomponents 291V1022FX24ABB is the closest they come to fitting the bill.  Overall it's about 1/4 inch too tall (~7mm) but that may not matter depending on available clearance (I havent measured inside the unit).  It does have the right number of pins, as well as 24 PPR with push button and detents and operates at 5V.  If you can configure a pin adapter to get the correct pin orientation (if height turns out not to be a problem), it might be worth considering if you absolutely need an optical encoder.  I'm not too sure on the difference between incremental quadrature and 2-bit quadrature output, maybe someone can educate me (if there is indeed any difference at all).

If anyone can come up with a better detented optical encoder that will fit the bill let me know because I'm definitely interested
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 01:48:32 pm by SMB784 »
 

Offline bodzio_stawski

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1735 on: October 01, 2020, 07:17:59 am »
I like my unit very much. It was a very good investment in my home lab. In general it has a good hardware with software and UI/UX which can be much improved. During the lockdown in March I used it for working at home and the results I got were as good, as the results I got from much more expensive Tektronix and Keysight scopes I use at work. Still, compared to Tektronix and Keysight I have at work, it feels cheaper but you get what you pay for.
Are new firmware versions still produced for 1104x-e? It's almost 3 years of that scope being on the market. I read that some issues (for example: bode plotting) are not solved yet. But Performa01 did a lot of work to help to improve that model (and what Siglent did with that work?). Or maybe hardware issues exists too and that is a problem (maybe Siglent tried to repair hardware faults by firmware updates and they only masked some problems).
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1736 on: October 01, 2020, 08:00:35 am »
I like my unit very much. It was a very good investment in my home lab. In general it has a good hardware with software and UI/UX which can be much improved. During the lockdown in March I used it for working at home and the results I got were as good, as the results I got from much more expensive Tektronix and Keysight scopes I use at work. Still, compared to Tektronix and Keysight I have at work, it feels cheaper but you get what you pay for.
Are new firmware versions still produced for 1104x-e? It's almost 3 years of that scope being on the market. I read that some issues (for example: bode plotting) are not solved yet. But Performa01 did a lot of work to help to improve that model (and what Siglent did with that work?). Or maybe hardware issues exists too and that is a problem (maybe Siglent tried to repair hardware faults by firmware updates and they only masked some problems).
Welcome to the forum.

Last FW version was back in March.
You can read the Release notes here:
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=12

There are some frequency step issues with Bode plot that mainly originate from very wide sweeps where relays switch between ranges. This should be self explanatory to the experienced user.
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1737 on: October 01, 2020, 07:23:05 pm »
Today, we want to save a signal as matlab file to usbstick.
To be more precisely, the FFT.
Unfortunately, it saves only the channel, not the mathfunction from it - Did we miss something to do ?
Or couldn´t do the sds1104X-E it in general ?

Any ideas ?


Offline SMB784

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1738 on: October 01, 2020, 07:25:34 pm »
Quote
Hello, Sir :)

I've noticed that you are a happy user of a 1104x-e oscilloscope from Siglent :) Could you tell me, how your work looks with it? Is there something you love about it or something you hate in that scope? I am asking because I am very interested in it personally. Nevertheless, despite the not-so-large selection of oscilloscopes in a similar class (Rigol, GWInstek etc.), I still have some doubts. Mainly due to the first Performa01 user tests, when he found a lot of bugs (also hardware errors). It would be nice to hear your own thoughts from you.

Regards!

bodzio_stawski

Since bodzio_stawski is a new member and cant yet receive personal messages, I will respond to his above question in this thread:

I have been very happy with my siglent scope.  I think you will need to evaluate the general performance specs of various models for your personal desired applications in order to make an informed decision.  There are indeed bugs in the scope, as there are in any scope on the market (Rigol also suffers from various firmware and hardware bugs/issues).  You will have to evaluate how those bugs will affect your use of the scope with regard to your desired application.  For example, if you are doing a lot of bode plotting, the issues specific to this scope may make it more difficult to do that.  However, as far as I know there aren't any other scopes on the market in this price range that can do bode plotting, so you'll have to weigh that against issues that may be fixed eventually.

My only gripe about the siglent scope is that the wifi interface requires you to use a wifi SSID and password that have no spaces or special characters.  Obviously this limits the wifi networks you can connect to, which is an extremely frustrating thing for me as most of my bench runs wirelessly on automated software.  However for most other issues, this is not a problem.  I am hopeful that this will also be addressed in a firmware update soon.

All told, with the ability to ugprade the scope to 200MHz and all options for no extra charge, its about the best deal on the market in my opinion.

Let me know if you have any more questions.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 10:29:21 pm by SMB784 »
 

Online nez

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1739 on: October 01, 2020, 11:30:54 pm »
Quote
Hello, Sir :)

I've noticed that you are a happy user of a 1104x-e oscilloscope from Siglent :) Could you tell me, how your work looks with it? Is there something you love about it or something you hate in that scope? I am asking because I am very interested in it personally. Nevertheless, despite the not-so-large selection of oscilloscopes in a similar class (Rigol, GWInstek etc.), I still have some doubts. Mainly due to the first Performa01 user tests, when he found a lot of bugs (also hardware errors). It would be nice to hear your own thoughts from you.

Regards!

bodzio_stawski

Since bodzio_stawski is a new member and cant yet receive personal messages, I will respond to his above question in this thread:
...

I wanted to add that Bode plots on this scope seem to work very well in their own regard.  In general, I like BodePlot II a lot and the scope is still a great value.

The problems I was encountering were not really related to BodePlot II -- the plots were just  a way to help view them (separate post still in progress but nearly done, sorry I'm slow!).

For reference, I'll attach a couple of plots showing a nice (expected) response across the frequency range.
For the best signal match I could make, I used a pair of new Amphenol cables and a Pomona T-adapter coming out of one AWG output, going into 50 Ohm terminators at the scope.  The terminators were both bought used off ebay and I found that one of them was a bit out of spec on its resistance, so the plots reflect this difference I believe.

Plot amplitudes are Vout/Vin ratios.  One plot is linear and one is log scale.

The results seem solidly repeatable as well, so as long as you're sticking with CH1+2 or 3+4, making initial plots as correction factors is straight-forward.


 

Offline bodzio_stawski

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1740 on: October 02, 2020, 11:33:11 am »
Thank you for the reply :)

Quote
There are indeed bugs in the scope, as there are in any scope on the market (Rigol also suffers from various firmware and hardware bugs/issues).

Yes, It's true that some bugs will be existing. The truth is there will always be mistakes. At one point I had doubts that it was not the siglent's intention to pack a lot of functionalities into the device (regardless of whether they would work properly), unlike other manufacturers like Rigol, who tried to do little but exactly. From Bode's graphing function, I expected it to be simply less advanced than in devices intended for such work by default (and it is natural). However, it would be nice to see something innovative, even simple - but working properly :) Unfortunately, such verification and comparison of functionalities is not enough if it is done only on the basis of specifications available on the web. Therefore, I am glad that there are people who test such equipment and share the results on the forum :)


Quote
All told, with the ability to ugprade the scope to 200MHz and all options for no extra charge, its about the best deal on the market in my opinion.

What does it mean?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 11:38:16 am by bodzio_stawski »
 

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Offline bodzio_stawski

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1742 on: October 02, 2020, 04:48:08 pm »
What does it mean?

Check out this post

Ok:) Looks good, but all in all, keeping 3-years warranty period is more important for me and at the moment I want to consider the 1104x-e as a scope without any optional/payable features and then check if it is still worth of money.

Unless a hacking of that scope to 200 MHz also improves quality of the other features that doesn't work correctly with previous version. Moreover, in the past I was afraid that all malfunctions or bugs will dissappear one day and then the manufacturer will say that there is no reason to keep this scope hacking-friendly ("so buy the additional functions or stary with an unfinished device") :) Now I see my thinking was bad, but I still think that in 2017 the manufacturer started selling an unfinished device.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 05:07:43 pm by bodzio_stawski »
 

Offline SMB784

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1743 on: October 02, 2020, 07:27:13 pm »
What does it mean?

Check out this post

Ok:) Looks good, but all in all, keeping 3-years warranty period is more important for me and at the moment I want to consider the 1104x-e as a scope without any optional/payable features and then check if it is still worth of money.

Unless a hacking of that scope to 200 MHz also improves quality of the other features that doesn't work correctly with previous version. Moreover, in the past I was afraid that all malfunctions or bugs will dissappear one day and then the manufacturer will say that there is no reason to keep this scope hacking-friendly ("so buy the additional functions or stary with an unfinished device") :) Now I see my thinking was bad, but I still think that in 2017 the manufacturer started selling an unfinished device.

Read through the thread a little more.  There is a method that involves extracting the license keys so that instead of hacking the scope you are just entering the license keys for the various options.  This should not void the warranty, in theory.
 
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1744 on: October 02, 2020, 08:09:27 pm »
Although this scope isn't bad, I have a couple of comments about the optional LA and AFG.

If you're thinking of adding the LA to make it an MSO, I find the LA on this scope to be very weak indeed. For an MSO at this level, I consider the older Rigol DS1000Z+ with LA probes to be a significantly better solution. On the 1104X-E, the UI performance grinds to a halt with the LA attached and it's a substantial extra package to carry about that can't help but take up bench space.

Similarly, the external AFG on the Siglent also is nowhere near as neat as the Rigol's internal dual channel unit, but you have to buy the Rigol's at the time of scope purchase.

So if you're only looking for a 4 channel scope only, the Siglent is definitely a better than the Rigol DS1000Z series. Just that I find the LA and AFG on the Siglent are rather disappointing.

 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1745 on: October 02, 2020, 08:52:37 pm »
@bodzio_stawski:

Couldn´t send you an answer to your PM - Your inbox is full..... :o
 
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1746 on: November 23, 2020, 06:49:05 am »
From the 'that's interesting files":

As I do  ::) every new scope is powered up, 1x/10x switch checked, probes compensated, coloured rings applied and FW checked....but the first from a new box/lot of 4 scopes the 10x probe compensation was almost bang on for every probe !  :o
One was left unadjusted as it was already perfect and the other 3 needed the smallest of tweaks.

Ch4 below was typical of 'straight outta the packet'.



Lets see if the other 3 scopes in this box and probes are as good.  :popcorn:
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And the next SDS1104X-E probes were almost perfect too !
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 08:38:45 pm by tautech »
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Offline ballen

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1747 on: November 29, 2020, 07:23:04 pm »
I am thinking about returning a recently-purchased Rigol DS1054Z and replacing it with a Siglent SDS1104X-E.  I'm trying to understand if the Siglent has any problems that will cause issues for me, so have been reading about it.  One thing I came across concerned the use of the memory buffer. On the  Rigol, at any horizontal sweep speed, I can specify to use a 24Msample buffer, put the scope into single trigger mode, and wait for the trigger event to happen.  When it does, the buffer will be full, with half the data coming from before the trigger event and half after.  I can then easily move around and look at the data on both sides of the event.  I find this very useful.

Is this also possible with the Siglent?  I have seen at least one person complaining that the equivalent to this was not possible, or at least not straightforward.  Is that right?
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1748 on: November 29, 2020, 07:36:18 pm »
Is this also possible with the Siglent?  I have seen at least one person complaining that the equivalent to this was not possible, or at least not straightforward.  Is that right?

You won't be able to zoom out if the screen was zoomed in when you hit "stop".

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1104x-e-zoom-problem/





« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 07:38:36 pm by Fungus »
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1749 on: November 29, 2020, 08:24:18 pm »
I am thinking about returning a recently-purchased Rigol DS1054Z and replacing it with a Siglent SDS1104X-E.  I'm trying to understand if the Siglent has any problems that will cause issues for me, so have been reading about it.  One thing I came across concerned the use of the memory buffer. On the  Rigol, at any horizontal sweep speed, I can specify to use a 24Msample buffer, put the scope into single trigger mode, and wait for the trigger event to happen.  When it does, the buffer will be full, with half the data coming from before the trigger event and half after.  I can then easily move around and look at the data on both sides of the event.  I find this very useful.

Is this also possible with the Siglent?  I have seen at least one person complaining that the equivalent to this was not possible, or at least not straightforward.  Is that right?
Capture memory management strategy is mirrored to the same strategies used by LeCroy and Pico.
The Single or Stop capture memory depth is just what is on the display and detailed inspection of it is limited to zooming in and panning around within the original capture therefore zooming in on a 1ms/div capture at 1us/div offers a large record to inspect.

To take best advantage of this capture strategy for greater detail (more datapoints) slower timebases are used where memory depth is greatest then perform the capture and then zoom in.
If requiring a longer record a further strategy is used namely Zoom mode for a split screen display where the primary display contains the full capture record of ALL the memory the scope can provide and the timebase control becomes a dual timebase where with a press we can toggle between the primary capture (un zoomed) and inspect the full capture in the zoomed window.
Because Siglent DSO's display the sampling rate and memory depth available in all timebase settings the user can make informed decisions of the capture strategy that suits them best before the capture is taken.

If some error is made in a capture setting History mode can assist as it is always running in the background and frames are available for inspection at any time.

In some 8 years handling Siglent scopes these memory management strategies remain unchanged as they work as intended and give full control to the user who is the master of the scope....not mastered by the scope.
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