Author Topic: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?  (Read 14458 times)

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Online tv84

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Anyone with a SDS2000(X) or old SDS1000xxx range has tried a Bandwidth upgrade on these?

Options are easy but BW should require a few more tweaks.

I'm developing a memdump procedure based on SCPI commands that can be used to dump these BF equipments.

If anyone is interested in helping....
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 01:56:58 pm by tv84 »
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2018, 09:52:16 pm »
So, resuming:

- SCPI memdump -  :-+
- Options licensing -  :-+
- BW patch - Almost done  (at the moment, it's a single bit toggle to convert from 200 to 300MHz but... may not be enough...  :box: )
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 02:50:07 am »

great work!

the SDS2000X are limited BW by hardware,
How did you do that with the options and the name?
Could you help me, but my skills are bad at programming
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 01:30:57 pm »
Can anyone explain precisely the "limitation" in HW?  I would apprecciate some HW photos of a SDS2204X and SDS2304X to compare. (I saw the teardown video but that seems a comparison between a 1000X and a 2000X version!)

Nonetheless, if that's true, taking the HW limitation and adding my patch all becomes official (designations, behavior, SCPI responses, ...)

But, I'm still trying to obtain the signal changes before/after SW patch.

The licenses can be read directly from the memdump, as always;)

« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:33:04 pm by tv84 »
 

Online MasterTech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 02:32:06 pm »
Weird that the bw is hardware restricted, could be but why go against the hacking spirit ;) keep up the work!
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2018, 03:24:58 pm »
These are 3 frames taken from Dave's teardown video.

Showing a SDS2304X (300 MHz) and a comparison to a SDS1000X.
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 03:28:47 pm »
These are 2 pics taken from the SDS2204X (200 MHz) being "analysed".

(sorry about resolution)

But, who can spot the differences to the 300 MHz unit?

IMHO it's difficult to conclude visually that the HW "filter" is different (besides different PCB versions...) from the 200 MHz to the 300 MHz. Probably it's only a SW limitation...

BTW, I heard a "rumour" that the SDS1000X/2000X FW, in the past, had a BW license insert menu. If that was true, then there is no HW difference.

Also, if that was true then tell me which version it was and we'll do it "officially".
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:44:08 pm by tv84 »
 

Online MasterTech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2018, 03:43:34 pm »
IF there was a bw restriction by hardware it would most probably be in the ADCs or close to these and not in the attenuators
 

Offline PhilipPeake

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2018, 04:03:52 pm »
"Options are easy"

Want to share?
 

Offline bugi

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2018, 04:42:27 pm »
Considering that a bandwidth limit "factory option" can be something as simple as inserting couple capacitors (with specific values, that is), and most small SMD ceramic caps have no markings whatsoever, it might be impossible to see the differences visually. One might need to actually measure component differences between models.

That quite horrible looking soldering result in one the photos could indicate manually soldered components, which could in turn indicate that the BW limit would indeed be set at factory by adding the needed components to "stock" PCBs.  Or it could just be a quick fix on a less than perfect board from the automated line.

But then again, if it would be so simple as 2-3 components, finding the differences would still allow relatively easy hack of changing those components by oneself. Even reverse-engineering the front-end might do the trick, but analyzing the differences might be easier/faster.
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2018, 03:50:01 am »
here is my HW mod on 2104x, this changed the 3db limit from around 250Mhz to 350Mhz
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 04:11:39 am by KeBeNe »
 

Offline kado

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2018, 06:23:50 am »
KeBeNe: can't read the red words in the picture. Did you remove or exchange a cap ? Thanks for a little more information.
Karsten


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2018, 06:44:22 am »
FYI,

the AD8370 is a low cost, digitally controlled, variable gain amplifier (VGA)

http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD8370.pdf

-3dB @ 750MHz, 40dB gain range, serial 8-bit interface (7bits without MSB is gain code)

I'm not quite sure if there is a BW restriction by passiv caps.  It's more probably that FW
influence the max BW.

Any comments or expirience on this issue?

Markus

PS.: see fig. 7 - gain code values.

PS2.: Perhaps I'm wrong. The DS describes the influence of the Output C's on page #17++
          If a 1nF cap us used instead of 10pF the differenc is round 2.1dB @ 100MHz.
          So this could be a point to take into account concerning BW max.


« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 07:05:10 am by markus_jlrb »
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2018, 09:51:10 am »
Yes, i have removed this capacitors
 

Offline bugi

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2018, 10:20:16 am »
The AD8370 can be used for adjusting the gain (vertical) somewhat smoothly, but, referring to that same fig.7, note how the bandwidth (-3dB relative to the low-frequency level) is almost the same no matter what gain/setting is used. Having such flat response to as high a bandwidth as possible independent of the gain setting is actually intended for a typical VGA.

(Also note, the page 17 talk on capacitors is about connecting the input signal in AC-coupled mode through caps; in an oscilloscope the connection would likely be DC coupled. Some other arrangement a little bit away from the VGA would be used for bandwidth limit, especially considering that "care must be taken to minimize parasitic capacitance on the input and output. The AD8370 could become unstable with more than a few pF of shunt capacitance on each input".)
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2018, 12:43:50 pm »
here is my HW mod on 2104x, this changed the 3db limit from around 250Mhz to 350Mhz

That's precisely what is visible in Dave's teardown, right? His 2304 doesn't have those caps!

So, if the HW change is only removing those caps, I can provide the "cosmetic" sw change.
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2018, 12:51:48 pm »
@tv84,

But please take into consideration, that this caps are already removed
in the pics you provide for the SDS2204X dso that only provide about
225MHz -3dB BW.

So parhaps the caps value itself makes the difference.

Markus
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2018, 01:09:02 pm »
@tv84,

But please take into consideration, that this caps are already removed
in the pics you provide for the SDS2204X dso that only provide about
225MHz -3dB BW.

So parhaps the caps value itself makes the difference.

Markus

If the SDS2204X does not have the caps (as you noticed), then the other components must make the difference.

We'll have to try measure the others components that are hand-soldered.

But, Markus, the PCB that I showed is not precisely the same as Dave's (and KeBeNe).
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 01:13:12 pm by tv84 »
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2018, 06:25:27 pm »
Dear's

need some help identifying the attached ic's.
Have found them when looking deeper inside
the sds frontend amplifier stage.

One of them could be TI's ADS7822 (12bit ADC 200kHz)
the other named AUE7256 is unkown to me.

And hints which manufacturer and which type these
eight pin ic is.

Thanks in advance for any helpful info.

Markus
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2018, 07:38:15 pm »
the other named AUE7256 is unkown to me.

It looks like 7258, not 7256.
 

Offline SMB784

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2018, 09:29:15 pm »
the other named AUE7256 is unkown to me.

It looks like 7258, not 7256.

Looks to me to be 7258 as well.

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2018, 07:16:19 am »
But which component with what functionality?

The ADS7822 (12bit ADC 200kHz) - if it is the proper ic - could
be for offset control. See Daves video on YT about R&S DSO.

But what is the 7258 or 7256 and what is the inon (half circle)
stands for?

Markus
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2018, 01:46:18 pm »
One of them could be TI's ADS7822 (12bit ADC 200kHz)

Looking at Dave's video, we can see a IC with the same 6552 (and a different reference on top).

So, this is a LMH6552 - LMH6552 1.5-GHz Fully Differential Amplifier.

Look at this thread, they did the same investigations to increase a Keysight scope BW:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-978-keysight-1000x-hacking/375/

Edit1: rf-loop, just discovered this other thread.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 02:09:24 pm by tv84 »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2018, 02:00:28 pm »
Dear's

need some help identifying the attached ic's.
Have found them when looking deeper inside
the sds frontend amplifier stage.

One of them could be TI's ADS7822 (12bit ADC 200kHz)
the other named AUE7256 is unkown to me.

And hints which manufacturer and which type these
eight pin ic is.

Thanks in advance for any helpful info.

Markus

Imho:
AUE = model... nice quesswork (example LMH6629 (sure it is not))
under it I believe there is datecode.

If you analyze even tiny bit this circuit you can see that signal coming in (after relays) is splitted to two pathways   before this IC. Other pathway go to discrete fet HF amplifier  and other pathway (DC and low freq (there you see also AC/DC switch "Cosmo") come to this "AUE"  IC pin 3 and as can see IC output is pin 6.
Without further explanations what I know or do not know or what ever... ;)

I "believe" it is (single) operational amplifier in MSOP8 type case
(This scope front end is classic "dual pathway" (separate pathways for DC-LF and HF) type what is widely used in this kind of oscilloscopes..)

This is only guiding hint and enough from me.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
-
Harmony OS
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2018, 05:06:20 pm »
@rf-loop,

thanks for clarification and your hints and link advisory.

Markus

PS.: Btw - what function has the 595 serial/parallel
shift register? Is it needed for relais switching control?

Markus
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 05:31:40 pm by markus_jlrb »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2018, 11:36:20 pm »
here is my HW mod on 2104x, this changed the 3db limit from around 250Mhz to 350Mhz
That's sounds about right for a 2304X -3dB point.
A screenshot I've posted before on the forum plus an additional few for reference.
HP 500 MHz sig gen used for all these screenshots.
Factory SDS2304X, 100mV signal:




200 and 300 MHz shots below = 1V p-p signal
It can be seen in the 500 MHz screenshot (100mV p-p) is past the stability frequency of the internal counter.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 07:50:49 pm by tautech »
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Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2018, 08:35:34 am »
@tautech

could you please provide a sweep picture, if your sig gen is
capable of this feature to see the flatness of the BW mod
when the caps are removed.

Thanks
Markus


 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2018, 09:08:06 am »
@tautech

could you please provide a sweep picture, if your sig gen is
capable of this feature to see the flatness of the BW mod
when the caps are removed.

Thanks
Markus
Sorry I can't as I don't have an AWG that can sweep to high frequencies.
ATM 30 MHz is the best I have.

You have SSA don't you ? Maybe that will do.
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Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2018, 09:18:46 am »
The caps are mounted between the pos and neg output
(OPHI/OPLO) of the AD8370 var gain amp.
Both lines are have round  50 ohm impedance according
to DS (100Ohm diff).

Have made a LT-Spice simulation to check the influence
 of the cap in parallel to the output (Pin 8/9)
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2018, 09:26:54 am »
The LT-Spice file is attached too.
To play arround, remove the .txt suffix.

The 0.95(V(n002)-V(n004) 5% recuction
is due to avoide overlapping of the red
curve.

bouth sig gens have 1V amplitude so that the
difference is 2V and the corresponding voltage
at load (ADC) should be 1V without attenuation
and influence of the cap.

As I do not know the ADC input impadance, I took
the same as the gain amp has in the hope the disign
is matching the impedances 1:1.

The C value is sweeped from 1pF to 10pF to visualize
the cap influence - BW reduction.

Markus

PS.: The simulation was made for 200MHz as I would
        like to compare with my DSO.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 10:39:39 am by markus_jlrb »
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2018, 07:23:40 pm »
FYI,

I can confirm the mod described by tautech extend the BW above 300MHz.
For my model SDD2204X only one cap is mounted nearby the AD8370 ic
in front of pin 8 and 9. This one cap I had desoldered today.
The 3dB (voltage) BW is located at 330MHz.
10dB BW reach the 70cm ham band at 440MHz. (50mV/div) of a 1Vpp
signal.

I have attached some pictures measured with my DSO.

Markus

PS.: The 500MHz signal is passing a 3dB splitter to a second scope
to compare the sigs. Means that the 316mV from the SMY01 has to be
devided by 0.707.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 10:39:01 am by markus_jlrb »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2018, 07:34:44 pm »
FYI,

I can confirm the mod described by tautech extend the BW above 300MHz.
FYI
So there is no confusion, the waveforms I have posted are from factory SDS2304X, unmodified in any way.
The signal amplitude/s in screenshots are either 1V or 100mV p-p so roll off can easily be seen.
The screenshots were not taken in one session.
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Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2018, 07:43:23 pm »
Sorry tautech,

It was the post from KeBeNe and his mod.
But good to know that the dso BW is comparable
with the factory tuned.

Markus
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2018, 07:51:53 pm »
The 3dB (voltage) BW is located at 330MHz.
10dB BW reach the 70cm ham band at 440MHz. (50mV/div) of a 1Vpp
signal.

Cool!

And, if I'm successfull in my investigations, soon you'll all be able to reclassify the scopes to the SDS2304X category (to match it's newer HW capabilities).

I think it's just a magic byte that needs to be changed...
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2018, 07:12:30 am »
Here is my measurement with 100mV, -3db point and 500Mhz.


@ tv84, that would be great and then all the options, have all bought up on PAS, I would like to have them
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 07:53:39 am by KeBeNe »
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2018, 09:59:24 am »
All the "investigations" talked about in this thread should be applicable to the Lecroy models:

WA102
WaveAce 1001  40MHz
WaveAce 1002  60MHz
WaveAce 1012 100MHz
WA204
WaveAce 2014 100MHz
WaveAce 2024 200MHz
WaveAce 2034 300MHz
WaveAce 2004  70MHz
WA202
WaveAce 2012 100MHz
WaveAce 2022 200MHz
WaveAce 2032 300MHz
WaveAce 2002  70MHz

 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2018, 11:46:21 am »
@KeBeNe

>Here is my measurement with 100mV, -3db point and 500Mhz.

Should be much more then -3dB from 300MHz to 500MHz.
(or did you other additional mods besides the cap removal?)

My scope (modified) have around 17dB att. from 300MHz to 500MHz.
The -3dB point is located around 325MHz.

The gen. provides 316mV/eff. Sig was splitted by a resistive  power
devider ( att > -6dB), so at scope input the amplidude @500MHz is:
316mV * sqrt(2) / 2 = 223mV (amplitude) and the scope shows 30mV
(amplitude) ==> 17,4dB attenuation. (a faktor of 7.4 concerning voltage
from sig to scope displayed)

Hopefully not making a mistake in my calculation ;-)

Markus

 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2018, 12:15:17 pm »
Markus,

Show us a freq. sweep of the new config.
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2018, 04:45:29 pm »
 As requested,

the bw picture from 10MHz to 500MHz.
Zero line shifted down to get a better resolution.

Markus

PS.: Looking for marker hints. Perhaps a second channel
is uesfull to do this to mark the -3dB point.
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2018, 05:39:50 pm »
here a sweep from 1 to 800Mhz from my scope
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2018, 06:15:07 pm »
@KeBeNe,

looks very ipressive, -3.6dB at 460MHz.
But I wonder about the increased voltage
level at low frequencies.
You have terminated the dso input with 50
Ohm properly?
Sorry that I ask. It's a big difference if I compare
with my scope. Did you make other mods?

Btw what is your smallest time base value.
1ns or less?

Markus
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2018, 04:51:12 am »
So, the SMT06 is no longer in ALC mode at 1V, the levels are no longer true. I did not pay attention.

We should agree on measurement levels and settings on the SDS (setup file from the SDS).

For the measurements, I activate the internal 50ohm resistor.
1ns is my smallest time.

Other modifications than the 4 capacitors removed I have not done, maybe there is still a calibration file, that would be an explanation
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2018, 07:49:19 am »
@KeBeNe

I have modified your pic with some markers.
Now It's look for my more realistic.

Thanks for your effort!

Markus
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2018, 08:09:42 am »
In addition to this BW picture, it would be of
interest if someone could measure the input
impedance of the scope channels when
terminated (internally) with 50Ohm up to
150% of the BW - let say to 500MHz.
The theoretical BW according to Nyquist
with 2Gs/sec is 1000MHz. Taking the
drop of a aliasing filter 600 to 700 MHz
in BW should be possible.
The AD83700 is specified -3dB@750MHz.
I compare this with the Lecroy models
with 2Gs compatible with the SDS230xX
that are  specified up to 400++MHz.

Markus

 
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2018, 01:19:46 pm »
FYI,

I have made the effort and check the reflection on ch1 to ch4
om my SDS2204X model. Looks not very good according to my
opinion. 10dB reflection from 50 Ohm terminated port/channel
means (>3% voltage err or 10% power error) error in maesurement
- right?

I had check the spawn from 0 to 1000MHz.
At the point of 100mV/div coming from the top (10,5,2,1,0.5,0.2V)
the reflection change due to internal switching of components.
All pictures show 50 Ohm terminated channels beside one that
I measure with 50 Ohm disabled (1Meg).

So I present screenshots of my measuring device as well as swr
bridge and cabling and the dso screenshots.

Waiting for your comments.

Markus

Sorry pic. #7 should be labeled with CH3 and not CH1.

 


« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 01:23:19 pm by markus_jlrb »
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2018, 04:54:02 pm »
To compare with a proper input channel impedance,
I check a  old Hameg 350 MHz DSO.

See the difference in the attached pictures compared
with the Siglent scope.
But also notice the decrease of impedance match,
when switching to 50mV and lower amplification.

Would be interesting to figure out how the SDS2KX input
impedance could be  improved.

Markus
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2018, 05:42:27 pm »
Here are the measurements of my 2104x


part 1:

« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 05:49:12 pm by KeBeNe »
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X or SDS1000xxx (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2018, 05:50:26 pm »
part 2:
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2018, 10:03:40 pm »
Since the 300 MHz HW patch has proven to be successfull (with light differences between different PCB boards) on a SDS2104X and a SDS2204X, the only thing missing was my contribution.

Attached is the latest FW version (SDS2000x_1.2.2.2R10) patched to fully behave as a 300 MHz scope (the official Siglent SDS2304X/SDS2302X).  It's a 1-byte patch.

The .ADS file is zipped and splitted in 3 parts (.ZIP + .Z01 + .Z02). Place them in the same dir and extract.

The CRC32 of the .ADS must be 0x5AD47123.

The file has been tested in a SDS2204X and should work on all scopes that accept the official Siglent v1.2.2.2R10 FW (with CRC32 = 0xFBD42874). It's a simple runtime patch. If someone wants to test a permanent patch pelase contact me.

Edit: New file released Sep 25th.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 11:00:12 am by tv84 »
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2018, 04:35:02 am »

Hello,

how do I unpack the files correctly, get errors with 7zip
 

Offline oewean

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2018, 07:30:58 am »
Rename / remove .zip from filename for the 2 last files(z01 and z02)
SDS2000x_1.2.2.2R10_300MHz.z01.zip  -> SDS2000x_1.2.2.2R10_300MHz.z01
SDS2000x_1.2.2.2R10_300MHz.z02.zip -> SDS2000x_1.2.2.2R10_300MHz.z02

BTW: As an distributor for Siglent I must warn about loss of warranty and the risk of destroying your scope....

« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 07:35:05 am by oewean »
Norwegian distributor of test and measurement equipment....
Adroit.no
 
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Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2018, 12:18:41 pm »
@oewean

the counterpart in "risk of destroying" is "quite a great chance to improve" the device.

But in general it's a good thing to know what someone is doing and not trust blind a
fw binary without having a) the knowledge or b) the feedback of a huge amount of
people which can canfirm that the modified firmware is working properly.

Just my opinion.

You know "no risk no fun as well as no sorrow"   

Markus
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2018, 06:44:32 pm »
patch worked without problems here
 
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Offline sn4k3

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2018, 08:05:34 pm »
Any hardware modification required on SDS2104 or SDS2204? or just flash the firmware?

Can i also ask if SDS2204 have much more benefit compared with SDS1204? (stock)
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2018, 08:35:02 pm »
Can i also ask if SDS2204 have much more benefit compared with SDS1204? (stock)
Main feature differences....maybe some missed.

SDS2kX series vs SDS1004X-E series
5x total memory (140 vs 28)
2x sampling rate
50 ohm inputs
Probe sense
Inbuilt AWG
Trig IN/OUT rear BNC
8" display
Much better MSO HW
PAS

SDS1004X-E
More powerful processor
Free Decode
Small form factor
Fast FFT
Webserver and WiFi capable
Updated UI .......that could be added to SDS2kX if Siglent wants to.
500uV/div @ full BW (no auto 20 MHz filter)
Bode plot capable.....needs ext AWG or option module.

Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
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Offline sn4k3

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2018, 08:57:25 pm »
SDS2kX series vs SDS1004X-E series
5x total memory (140 vs 28)
2x sampling rate
50 ohm inputs
Probe sense
Inbuilt AWG
Trig IN/OUT rear BNC
8" display
Much better MSO HW
PAS

SDS1004X-E
More powerful processor
Free Decode
Small form factor
Fast FFT
Webserver and WiFi capable
Updated UI .......that could be added to SDS2kX if Siglent wants to.
500uV/div @ full BW (no auto 20 MHz filter)
Bode plot capable.....needs ext AWG or option module.

Now i have mixed fellings  :-\
I was more inclined to SDS2kX, it have each chanel knobs instead have to switch and share same knob, larger, more memory, looks better and the other features that i like, but at 2x the cost of SDS1kX...
From other side the SDS1kX is cheaper, newer, faster-cpu? Decoder, better UI maybe and all that for half the price.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 09:02:46 pm by sn4k3 »
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #56 on: August 22, 2018, 09:04:46 pm »
BTW: As an distributor for Siglent I must warn about loss of warranty and the risk of destroying your scope....

Of course, I respect and thank the warning. Although it was more appropriate when people went for the HW patch.

For my part, a stock FW reflash and the device regains warranty.
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2018, 09:07:58 pm »
patch worked without problems here

Did you observe any improvement regarding your previous measurements (before FW patch)?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2018, 09:28:25 pm »
SDS2kX series vs SDS1004X-E series
5x total memory (140 vs 28)
2x sampling rate
50 ohm inputs
Probe sense
Inbuilt AWG
Trig IN/OUT rear BNC
8" display
Much better MSO HW
PAS

SDS1004X-E
More powerful processor
Free Decode
Small form factor
Fast FFT
Webserver and WiFi capable
Updated UI .......that could be added to SDS2kX if Siglent wants to.
500uV/div @ full BW (no auto 20 MHz filter)
Bode plot capable.....needs ext AWG or option module.

Now i have mixed fellings  :-\
I was more inclined to SDS2kX, it have each chanel knobs instead have to switch and share same knob, larger, more memory, looks better and the other features that i like, but at 2x the cost of SDS1kX...
From other side the SDS1kX is cheaper, newer, faster-cpu? Decoder, better UI maybe and all that for half the price.
I've had 2304 and later 2304X since 2013. I like X-E but for an everyday bench unit.......SDS2000X series.
It's not a cheap entry level DSO so priced accordingly.
Only the 300 MHz model comes with 300 MHz 10x only auto-sense probes and they are a very nice probe.....specify them if you buy a 2kX.
I know....the $, but the perfect scope has not been built yet.

The multiplexed channel controls are not something to be scared of and usage of them is adapted to quite quickly.
For the UI, the great advantage is the channel tab indication of input attenuation settings. Siglent need to add this to all their current DSO models with the modern V2 UI.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2018, 09:41:07 pm »
I've had 2304 and later 2304X since 2013. I like X-E but for an everyday bench unit.......SDS2000X series.

tautech,

If I understand it correctly, you still prefer the SDS X instead of a X-E, since you already owned it.

What is the thing that you most miss about the X-E in your day-to-day?

And what is the thing (that the X-E doesn't have) that you most use in your day-to-day?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2018, 10:09:57 pm »
I've had 2304 and later 2304X since 2013. I like X-E but for an everyday bench unit.......SDS2000X series.

tautech,

If I understand it correctly, you still prefer the SDS X instead of a X-E, since you already owned it.

What is the thing that you most miss about the X-E in your day-to-day?

And what is the thing (that the X-E doesn't have) that you most use in your day-to-day?
To be clear I own both 2kX and 1kX-E plus other demo models as well.

It matters to some if it is a everyday DSO or hobbyist usage. X-E is a very capable DSO, more so than most at this price point.
For me, Channel tab indication is great but my opinion needs to be balanced against probe auto sense of 2kX.
8" display, hell yeah ! More important as we age.
Multiplexed vs individual vertical controls....don't care so much now I'm used to 4ch X-E's even though I dreaded using them. They are not so bad, even for an old fella like me used to individual controls.
Otherwise the two UI's and usage is very very similar, one has features the other doesn't and vice versa.
The physical UI of 2kX is nicer and knobs not some smooth cheap plastic.

X-E do Bode plot but a simple one can be done with 2kX and inbuilt AWG but without phase info measurement.
Dave's Bode plot vid shows how.

If I had to make the choice, 2kX.............but I would be happy with either. What one can't do as well as the other, well I'm fortunate to have other equipment that can make up for that.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2018, 04:13:58 am »

Did you observe any improvement regarding your previous measurements (before FW patch)?


Hello,

no, it has not changed in terms of bandwidth, just the name.

Here a FFT plot from 0Mhz to 1Ghz, RF source sweep 100khz to 1Ghz, level -10dbm, Scope 50ohm Input channel 1, FFT 4096points + max. hold
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 05:08:04 am by KeBeNe »
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2018, 11:04:06 am »
Attached is the latest FW version (SDS2000x_1.2.2.2R15) patched to fully behave as a 300 MHz scope (the official Siglent SDS2304X/SDS2302X).  It's a 1-byte patch.

The .ADS file is RARed+ZIPped in 3 parts. Place them in the same dir and double-extract.

People should previously do the HW hack.
 
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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2018, 11:04:42 am »
3rd an last part
 
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Offline swperk

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2018, 10:11:06 pm »
Thanks for all your hard work on this patch! I tried it on my SDS2204X scope, but after it installed I could not get any traces to display on the screen. All of the buttons worked, menus came up, it reported itself to be an SDS2304X, but alas, no traces. I reinstalled the original 1.2.2.2 firmware and it's back to being its old self. Any ideas?

Regards,
Stan
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2018, 08:38:14 am »
Thanks for all your hard work on this patch! I tried it on my SDS2204X scope, but after it installed I could not get any traces to display on the screen. All of the buttons worked, menus came up, it reported itself to be an SDS2304X, but alas, no traces. I reinstalled the original 1.2.2.2 firmware and it's back to being its old self. Any ideas?

Regards,
Stan

Have you done the HW patch (caps removal)?
 

Offline swperk

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2018, 03:27:42 pm »
No, I haven’t removed the caps yet. I planned to do just that once I verified that the patch worked. Unfortunately, not only did the patch make all the channel traces disappear, it also did not enable the power analysis option (the only option on my scope that wasn’t already installed). So I will be waiting until I can figure out how to get the patch working to make the hardware modifications.
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2018, 08:02:30 pm »
So I will be waiting until I can figure out how to get the patch working to make the hardware modifications.

 :palm:

The patch worked perfectly!!

it reported itself to be an SDS2304X,

It's not supposed to activate any Options and it's not supposed to make the channel traces work at 300MHz with the caps on!

Did you even bother to read this?

People should previously do the HW hack.
 

Offline swperk

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2018, 01:47:32 am »
I had been reading several threads other than this one about enabling the SDS2000X power analysis option, and mistakenly attributed that feature to your patch. For that I apologize.

In any event, as I mentioned in my original comment, installing the patch made the scope unusable in that no traces were displayed. Fortunately, I was able to reinstall the original firmware and restore everything back to the way it was.

I understand that it is necessary to modify the hardware (caps) to get the full bandwidth, but is it also necessary to remove the caps just to get the traces to display? I wouldn't expect that to be the case.
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2018, 10:41:21 am »
No, you don't need the SW patch for the SDS to work as a 300MHz unit.

You just need the HW patch.

What you saw is probably the result of applying the SW patch without the HW patch. No one had done that before.

So I think you could do the HW patch only, as several guys reported success. The SW patch is somewhat aesthetic.

Well, with your test, we confirm that it's not so  aesthetic as one might imagine.  So it was an involuntary step in the evolution path!
 

Offline swperk

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2018, 01:30:39 am »
Okay, thanks for the clarification! Anyway, without doing any hardware mods my SDS2204X has a -3 dB bandwidth of about 320 MHz. Maybe I'll just leave well enough alone!

Regards,
Stan
 

Offline markus_jlrb

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2018, 08:57:26 am »
@Stan,

have you measured your max-BW with 50 Ohm termination?

Markus
 

Offline swperk

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2018, 10:34:24 pm »
Yes, the 320 MHz -3 dB bandwidth I measured was with a 50 ohm termination.
 

Offline timber23

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2019, 04:05:26 pm »
Hi,

I want to optain a memdump. Therefore I used EasyScopeX to send the SCPI command "SHELLCMD telnetd -l/bin/sh -p10101". But nothing happens. I try to use PuTTy to telnet into the SDS2104X but telnet doesn't work.

Do you have any suggestions how to do it? The scope has version 1.2.2.2 R15

Best regards
Andreas
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2019, 04:38:13 pm »
SDS X is a Blackfin machine. No ARM and no linux OS.

No telnet is possible.
 

Offline timber23

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2019, 05:10:48 pm »
Okay. If no telnet is possible, how to obtain the memdump? I found the SCDP C# program, which was posted in September 2018, but I don't know which SCPI commands are required for reading the memory.
Any hint where to start?
Thank you
Best regards
Andreas
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2019, 06:26:53 pm »
There are no SCPI commands to "read memory". If you need it, you'll have to craft your own command to do it.

Another possibility might be the JTAG access.
 

Offline timber23

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2019, 11:18:42 pm »
I see. Since I have no clue about SCPI programming, I will not further investigate.

But I managed to perform the BW hack. The mainboard of my scope has minor differences, but after removing the four caps, it seems that I can measure up to 300 MHz. I do not have a signal generator which is capable of providing such a high frequency. Hence I used my SSA 3021X TG and set the output to 0 dBm. For low frequencys the scope measures 1 Vpp. At 300 MHz configured at TG it still has a reliable reading of 300 MHz and 0.9 Vpp. I tried to increase the frequency, but it becomes unreliable beyond 320 MHz. At 400 MHz Nyquist comes in and the scope shows 332 MHz...

For those who are interested in photos, I attached some here.

Thanks to everybody who contributed to the BW hack and the modified FW.  :-+

Best regards
Andreas
 

Offline eddiea6987

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #78 on: April 05, 2019, 01:00:38 am »
Hey guys, this thread starts with the options patch already done, anyone have a link to the thread discussing that?
 

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #79 on: April 16, 2019, 06:26:40 pm »
Hello,

I have a SDS2204X. It will be nice to have more BW  8)
I download the last mod firmware from tv84, thanks a lot.
But on reply #10 there is a HW mod ( removing 4 caps ).

My scope is still under waranty so I didn't opened it wet.
I don't understand if all the SDS2000X series had those caps ?

Thank you for your help :)


 

Offline TheDefpom

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #80 on: April 30, 2019, 05:37:33 pm »
Hi all,
Thanks a lot for this information, I did a video showing how to do this on an SDS2102 model, it looks a lot like the pictures I have seen in this thread too.

#554 Hacking The Siglent SDS2102 to 345MHz ! - How To Increase Oscilloscope Bandwidth
https://youtu.be/kGHjtlQp6fw
Cheers Scott
Check out my Electronics & Repair Videos at https://www.youtube.com/TheDefpom
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My NEW Review Videos Channel: http://defs.link/?u=72b0c6
 
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Offline XBurst

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2019, 03:26:46 pm »
Hello,

Thanks for all your hard work on this patch! I have a
SDS2304X-E. This is the educational version of SDS2304X,
the difference is that the storage depth is reduced from
140Mpts to 70Mpts. I download the last mod firmware and
upgrade successfully. But the options licensing are still
trial version. Any ideas?

Best regards!
 

Offline Tighermine83

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #82 on: August 04, 2020, 05:19:46 pm »
Hello people.

I am interesting in buying Siglent 2000X 100Mhz in order to upgrade it to 350Mhz min. I dont't if it can be "HACKED"? if so, is it a hardware MODs or software?

many thanks.

Regards
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #83 on: August 04, 2020, 08:33:18 pm »
Hello people.

I am interesting in buying Siglent 2000X 100Mhz in order to upgrade it to 350Mhz min. I dont't if it can be "HACKED"? if so, is it a hardware MODs or software?

many thanks.

Regards
Welcome to the forum.

The now few years old SDS2000X models max'ed out at 300 MHz and while a nice DSO in their time the new SDS2000X Plus models are in another league and offer BW to 350 MHz with an additional 2 channel option to 500 MHz. They are where I recommend you focus your efforts.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Tighermine83

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Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #84 on: August 04, 2020, 10:40:07 pm »
Hello tautech,

Yes it's what I am looking for SDS2000X Plus model. I've just read that there is a hack to upgrade the bandwidth but people don't tell how to do it. Is it like by removing some components? or a software MODs. Please can you give more details of how to do it.

350 Mhz upgrade will be enough for what I am designing.

Many thanks for your help.

Regards.
 

Offline tautech

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  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #85 on: August 04, 2020, 10:58:02 pm »
Hello tautech,

Yes it's what I am looking for SDS2000X Plus model. I've just read that there is a hack to upgrade the bandwidth but people don't tell how to do it. Is it like by removing some components? or a software MODs. Please can you give more details of how to do it.

350 Mhz upgrade will be enough for what I am designing.

Many thanks for your help.

Regards.
Right now the thread you are looking for is on P5 of the Test Equipment board.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline hitwzy

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS1000(X) / SDS2000(X) or LeCroy WaveAce (Blackfin) hacks?
« Reply #86 on: August 27, 2020, 10:54:06 pm »
Is there a way to unlock the SDS2104X 's options without hardware modification as BW is not an issue for my application?
Thanks
 


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