Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.  (Read 137568 times)

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Offline rf-loopTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #125 on: June 12, 2022, 09:58:08 am »
Reserved, under work...
for some more tests related to previous (due to image limits in forum)
Reserved, under work...

For other peoples:  do not wait this, just continue and ignore this reserve. (If I  do not add here anything then I will delete this msg.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 10:56:27 am by rf-loop »
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #126 on: June 12, 2022, 08:45:00 pm »
In the product hierarchy, the HD is on third place, leaves the Xplus behind but not the 5K.
I think it´s placed according to the prices and/or max. bandwith.
Due to the metioned "DHL-Fail" on yesterday, I think I´ll get it on tuesday...I´m curious if there will be a user manual on CD.
Online there is only the spec sheet avaible.

 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #127 on: June 12, 2022, 09:19:56 pm »
I think I´ll get it on tuesday...I´m curious if there will be a user manual on CD.
Online there is only the spec sheet avaible.
Nah, look harder:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/22_06_08/SDS2000X_HD_UserManual_EN01A.pdf
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #128 on: June 12, 2022, 09:23:06 pm »
Thx Rob  :-+

Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #129 on: June 13, 2022, 08:17:09 am »
BTW, I think it has not been mentioned anywhere yet:

If you think the R&S are the only acoustic quiet scopes on the market and the Siglents are noisy by comparison, then you might get a pleasant surprise with the SDS2000X HD...
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #130 on: June 13, 2022, 09:31:37 am »
Although it´s not the most important thing for me, it would be nice through, without a question.

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #131 on: June 13, 2022, 01:08:33 pm »
Tadaaa... ;)

First impressions after unpackaging:

- Real good building quality, look and feel like lecroy ws3000Z, feels "heavier" as it is, "better" than sds2k+  :-+
- Feets are still standard.
- Probes...good, you get 500Mhz ones, not less, not more.  ;)
- The encoders...Wow, they´re "clicking"...Nice :D

Well, let´s acclimate it, then turning on for the first time.
P.S.: The cordless mouse is missing in the package.

Martin

Edit three pics added, I really like this design !

« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 03:11:39 pm by Martin72 »
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #132 on: June 13, 2022, 03:06:17 pm »
Come on... you haven't done the VESA yet??   :-//
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #133 on: June 13, 2022, 03:14:28 pm »
Did you know other manufacturers who have this on their models ?

Offline pope

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #134 on: June 13, 2022, 03:16:50 pm »
"Calibration void if seal is broken"

Is this a workaround to the illegal "warranty void if if seal is broken" ?
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #135 on: June 13, 2022, 03:18:04 pm »
Ha, you´re right, didn´t saw this  :-DD

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #136 on: June 13, 2022, 05:45:59 pm »
Hi,

Normally I didn´t got time until next weekend, but at last switch it on this was a must.  ;)
First there are really several differences between HD and X+ what features concerning and yes, this fan must be controlled... :)
While booting you here a noise appx equal to the noctua fan I´ve mounted in my former X+.
But after booting the fan is "dead", you hear nearly nothing, excellent.  :-+
By the way, booting time is appx 55sec, not fast but also not too long.
Display is very bright and clear, could be the same as on the X+, must compare it.
In standby mode, the on/off button lights in orange/yello, when operating in bright white.
As mentioned, there are more features in the menus - like "FE Tweak Wizard" ?!  :-//
Also I´ve checked shortly the memory management, when setting to manual you can have the full memory even in ns-range.
Lots to play and compare, will be continued....
So far I like this puppy.

Martin
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #137 on: June 13, 2022, 10:20:35 pm »
FE Tweak Wizard  :-//
Zip about this in the manual.  :popcorn:
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #138 on: June 13, 2022, 11:15:37 pm »
Use the search function of adobe lazy as I am, nothing.
Will search manually later on.. ;)

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #139 on: June 14, 2022, 12:43:32 am »
Use the search function of adobe lazy as I am, nothing.
Will search manually later on.. ;)
Oh and another new feature to check out.....Probe Check. You can find it in the probe menu when setting up probe attenuation settings.
It checks for adequate/correct compensation and if OK assigns the probe a Pass.

This has also been introduced to SDS5000X.
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Offline TopQuark

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #140 on: June 14, 2022, 10:52:24 am »
So Siglent China is doing a discount on the SDS2000X HD from tomorrow to saturday, and the 100MHz model is going for slightly less than 3000USD, I might just seize the opportunity and get it earlier than planned. I think they are throwing in a suitcase (generic one) as part of the promotional deal too  :-//

Would anyone be so kind to confirm if the SDS2000X HD is hackable/upgradable with the keygen tool circulating out there?  >:D
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #141 on: June 14, 2022, 11:20:22 am »
Hm, I´m one of the thousands of HD owners.. ;)
First I want to test as much as possible before I´m going to do anything in this direction.


Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #142 on: June 14, 2022, 03:37:07 pm »
For those who would like to get an idea how the performance of the Bode plotter can benefit from the 12 bit acquisition in the SDS2000X HD, here you go:

Depending on the signal levels, ADC resolution doesn’t have to make that much of a difference for Bode plot in Auto Gain mode. At low signal levels, the frontend noise might be the limiting factor despite the frequency selective detector used by Siglent’s Bode Plot implementation. At higher levels, the automatic gain control keeps the signal near full scale anyway.

I’ve used the highest test signal levels that I had available, which also happen to approach the limit of the lowest 50 ohms sensitivity of 1 V/div (I had to fit a 10 dB attenuator for the reference channel already).

The test object was a ceramic 455 kHz IF-filter (with the familiar imperfections). Because of the complexity of this filter the phase plot doesn’t look particularly pretty and obscures the picture, hence I’ve disabled it. For this test it is irrelevant anyway.

The input level in this test was 24 dBm = 3.54 Vrms = 10.02 Vpp.

The first screen shot shows the measurement in Auto Gain mode. This plot is quite clear, the display range is 120 dB and the usable dynamic range in this scenario certainly exceeds 115 dB.

SDS2504X HD_FRA_455kHz_A

In Gain Hold mode we enjoy a considerably faster operation at the cost of a drastically reduced dynamic range. This is where the 12 bits of an SDS2000X HD might help to improve things by up to 24 dB in theory.

The second screenshot shows the same measurement as before, but this time in Gain Hold mode. For higher levels, there is no visible difference, but below about -55 dB the increasing noise gets quite obvious. It’s up to you to judge what you still accept as usable dynamic range in this scenario, but I would call it about 60 dB before the noise seriously starts obscuring signal details too much.

SDS2504X HD_FRA_455kHz_H

This result is still not too bad. 60 dB is the relation of 3.54 Vrms to 3.54 mVrms = 10.02 mVpp. In theory, we would expect about 60 dB improvement with the Auto Gain feature and this test suggests that it is at least 115 – 60 = 55 dB. This cannot be totally exact, because neither of the two tests clearly defines a distinct dynamic range:

•   With Auto Gain, we didn’t see any significant noise yet, so the true dynamic range might be a bit higher, like 120 dB.
•   In Gain Hold mode, it’s up to us to define the threshold where the noise becomes too obvious, and this is of course subjective.

Now let’s see how the SDS2354X Plus compares in this scenario when using Gain Hold. There is not much difference up to 400 kHz between SDS2000X Plus and HD, just the noise kicks in about 10 dB earlier on the 8-bit instrument (-55 dB instead of -65 dB). But we do see a substantial amplitude error above the second resonance at about 660 kHz; The level is shown up to 10 dB low. See the third screenshot:

SDS2354X Plus_FRA_455kHz_8Bit_H

All in all it seems that the results don’t look too different at a first glance, but the accuracy and reliability at low signal levels is indeed much better on the 12-bit instrument. It shows consistent results all the time, whereas the SDS2000X+ gets a bit random for levels below the maximum dynamic range of an 8-bit system, which is <50 dB.

BTW, the 10 bit mode of the SDS2354X Plus doesn’t make much of a difference either, see the fourth screenshot:

SDS2354X Plus_FRA_455kHz_10Bit_H

At lower signal levels, the analog noise from the frontend will ultimately be the limiting factor, at least partially killing the advantages of the high resolution acquisition. Again, we should stop and think for a moment, what the previously measured 115 dB dynamic actually means: 3.54 Vrms to 6.30 µVrms = 17.83 µVpp! A sensitivity that high would be totally impossible without the frequency selective detector, which also ensures that the measurement result is not falsified by spurious signals.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2022, 04:14:43 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Offline Frex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #143 on: June 14, 2022, 03:56:09 pm »
Hello,

Thank you for all these measurements Performa01.
They are interesting but they don't show as big difference that we could expect
from 12 bits instead of 8.
In fact, we can say that the SDS2354X-Plus make a great job for an only 8 bits front-end. Of course the new HD model show cleaner trace.

The FRA noise floor measurement would be interesting, in the whole frequency range of generator (5Hz-50M),
to show how it perform with frequency, revealing also how cross-talk between channels is managed.
Could you try this ?
Regards

Frex

(Output of generator connected to "Vin" channel, and "Vout" channel connected leave unconnected or to ground).
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #144 on: June 14, 2022, 08:05:01 pm »
Hello,

Thank you for all these measurements Performa01.
They are interesting but they don't show as big difference that we could expect
from 12 bits instead of 8.
In fact, we can say that the SDS2354X-Plus make a great job for an only 8 bits front-end. Of course the new HD model show cleaner trace.

The FRA noise floor measurement would be interesting, in the whole frequency range of generator (5Hz-50M),
to show how it perform with frequency, revealing also how cross-talk between channels is managed.
Could you try this ?
Regards

Frex

(Output of generator connected to "Vin" channel, and "Vout" channel connected leave unconnected or to ground).
2 things, Performa01 has used another FG/AWG than the inbuilt for his FRA examples and we see this from:

Quote
The input level in this test was 24 dBm = 3.54 Vrms = 10.02 Vpp.
Which is above the output levels of the inbuilt AWG.

And the HD model inbuilt AWG is limited to 25 MHz.
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Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #145 on: June 14, 2022, 08:50:16 pm »
Thank you for all these measurements Performa01.
They are interesting but they don't show as big difference that we could expect
from 12 bits instead of 8.

Well, it should pretty much meet any realistic expectations. The accuracy is gone for the 8-bit system as soon as we leave its dynamic range of ~49 dB (in Gain Hold mode, that is). On the other hand, the 12-bit results get a bit noisy below -60 dBc, but they are still accurate (compare with the auto-gain measurement). This is what ultimately counts.

The FRA noise floor measurement would be interesting, in the whole frequency range of generator (5Hz-50M),
to show how it perform with frequency, revealing also how cross-talk between channels is managed.

See attached screenshot:

SDS2504X HD_FRA_Noise

This test was performed with a 5 Vpp input signal, 10 Hz to 120 MHz.

As you can see, noise and crosstalk don’t exceed -100 dB up to 25 MHz for channel 2 and its even -110 dB for channels 3 and 4. The latter two maintain -100 dB up to the maximum frequency of 120 MHz.

Again, consider what 100 dB means in this context: 5 Vpp = 1.77 Vrms in relation to 50 µVpp = 17.68 Vrms. This is still better than the wideband noise of the scope input with 20 MHz bandwidth limit.
 
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Offline Frex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #146 on: June 15, 2022, 12:44:44 pm »
Just for comparison with the small brother, the result I get with internal generator of SDS2104X-Plus.
Auto mode, 10bits mode enable, signal input to CH1, all others channels not connected.
The channel 2 (blue) is terminated with 50 Ohms instead of 1M, so it have slignly less noise.
We can see that even with it's 8 bits the noise floor reach -120dB that is very good performance for a scope.

I have also made another plot, to show how it can measure a simple passive resistor divider 100kOhms/1 Ohms
that give a -100dB attenuation over frequency.Of course the result is not perfectly flat,
but we cleary see that we can resolve such low level signal.
My two cent.

Frex

 
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Offline KrzysztofB

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #147 on: June 15, 2022, 12:55:46 pm »
Come on... you haven't done the VESA yet??   :-//
Can help with that
 
Have some experience



 :-DD
 
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Offline TopQuark

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #148 on: June 15, 2022, 02:17:18 pm »
Caved in and pulled the trigger on a SDS2104X HD, got it for 2900 USD, which is quite a nice discount given how new the scope is.  ;D  With luck it will arrive on saturday, otherwise it will be early next week.

First thing I am going to do is to try and hack/upgrade it, will report back any success or otherwise.  >:D
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #149 on: June 15, 2022, 03:41:05 pm »
Caved in and pulled the trigger on a SDS2104X HD, got it for 2900 USD, which is quite a nice discount given how new the scope is.  ;D  With luck it will arrive on saturday, otherwise it will be early next week.

First thing I am going to do is to try and hack/upgrade it, will report back any success or otherwise.  >:D
Congratulations!
That is actually rather good price..
 


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