Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.

[rf-loop]

I confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.

5 months to wait...argh..

Here are some SDS2000X HD spec data

2 things....3 things about:

The 500Mhz bandwith....When it´s not possible to have this bandwith with all channels active on a 4-channel device, you shouldn´t offer this.
Like my sds2k+, it gives you the feeling to have something limited, not finished - Couldn´t describe it better in a foreign language.
Everybody knows about the limitations in samplerate and memory in general what 2/4 channels concerns and don´t have a problem with it.
But bandwith...Unique thing.
Plus: the model labeling, sds2504...sounds like 500Mhz 4 channels, that´s not true.
Correct labeling should be 2502, although it got 4 channels.

Then the integrated awg...
I´m not a fan of it in general, this is too rudimental to be a serious alternative to stand-alone units.
So just leave it..
The mentioned specs are "horrible", 25Mhz instead of the 50Mhz the sds2k+ got.
Weak amplitude, very raw functions in general, 25Mhz only for sinewaves, 10Mhz square and, if I saw it right, poor 300Khz for triangle, still no FM/AM functions...Leave it.
When you buy a scope for 2500...3000€, you don´t need a internal awg, you already got one.
Apart from this all, when it will come, I´ll buy it immediately.
A true native 12bit scope for a entry price under the sds5000 series ( should be, otherwise the 5000 series makes no sense anymore apart the max bandwith)...
The RTB2000 series was called "A true gamechanger", well, this will be the next.

It’s hard for me to understand why it hasn’t received enough attention that I said quite clearly at the beginning of this thread that Siglent has released the SDS2000X HD model series in China for the Chinese domestic market ...

Nowhere has it been said or promised that the entire Chinese domestic market model series will be released as such to markets outside China.
Let's take an example, the model series SDS2000X Plus:
In the Chinese domestic market, it includes models:

SDS2504X Plus 500 MHz 4 + EXT 2 GSa / s
SDS2502X Plus 500 MHz 2 + EXT 2 GSa / s
SDS2354X Plus 350 MHz 4 + EXT 2 GSa / s
SDS2352X Plus 350 MHz 2 + EXT 2 GSa / s
SDS2204X Plus 200 MHz 4 + EXT 2 GSa / s
SDS2202X Plus 200 MHz 2 + EXT 2 GSa / s
SDS2104X Plus 100 MHz 4 + EXT 2 GSa / s
SDS2102X Plus 100 MHz 2 + EXT 2 GSa / s
SDS2074X Plus  70 MHz 4 + EXT 2 GSa / s
SDS2072X Plus  70 MHz 2 + EXT 2 GSa / s

Compare it to the range that has been published and available in overseas markets (outside China).
Bolded are SDS2000X Plus overseas market models.
Compare also Chinese data sheet and overseas markets data sheet. SDS2000X HD is not SDS2000X Plus but...sampling speed is same... Thinking is not forbidden.
We know SDS2000X HD models for the foreign market (outside China) then - and only then - when Siglent have released them for the overseas market.
There are currently no official published even single word about SDS2000X HD and foreign markets. Nothing. Period. Only speculations until Siglent officially publishes even one word on the matter.

ETA: About internal FG.  I believe no one have thinked it is as replacement for conventional universal function generator for general use. But it can handy without external instruments serve BodePlot (common FRA and also example PSU Control Loop Response measurements) in many applications up to 25MHz.  Example if people already have some Arb/Func generator but it is not compatible for Siglent scope BodePlot control communication. In this case this internal FG may well serve basic needs for BodePlot.

[Martin72]

Hi rf-loop...

Nowhere has it been said or promised that the entire Chinese domestic market model series will be released as such to markets outside China.

It was mentioned a couple of weeks ago in this thread - And only 2 days before:

I confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.

So I had related my last post to that.
When it´s not true he should delete it.

Martin

[ozkarah]

Hi rf-loop...

Nowhere has it been said or promised that the entire Chinese domestic market model series will be released as such to markets outside China.

It was mentioned a couple of weeks ago in this thread - And only 2 days before:

I confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.

So I had related my last post to that.
When it´s not true he should delete it.

Martin

Let me explain more about my source. I asked the sales manager at the country distributor to ask Siglent HQ directly when it will be available in European market. He wrote to Siglent and the answer was it will come in July,  but there is no clue about the pricing yet.

[2N3055]

Let me explain more about my source. I asked the sales manager at the country distributor to ask Siglent HQ directly when it will be available in European market. He wrote to Siglent and the answer was it will come in July,  but there is no clue about the pricing yet.

So you already got your answer.

It is coming. Yes. 
When? When it's ready. 
What exact models? We'll see. 
What will the prices be? We'll see. 

What do you expect to hear here? 
Nobody that has real details will speak before they are ready and allowed to. 

Everything else is waste of time and oxygen.  We'll just have to wait..

We can discuss technical details here though, that is not waste of time.. 
Datasheet is there, there is a big chance that it will stay like it is at release, at least for major specs defined by hardware. Software can change, and is in constant progress, and they may add or redefine some software features. 

And as RF said, it is a scope similar in concept to 2000X+ but with 12 bit converters. That is good news for people that can use that kind of resolution @ few hundred MHz bandwidth. There are many applications that will benefit from it.

So on release it will be very similar to SDS2000X+ judging by the datasheet. Except huge difference of 12 bit, which to some people will be completely irrelevant, and to some it will be the game changer...
The noise gap to Rigols will be even larger than it is now, for instance..
The trace will be as thin on the screen (at full bandwidth, without ERES), you'll think you're looking at best old analog Tek with perfect focus.
And much better DC accuracy...
And vastly larger DC offset range and accuracy.
Much better ch2ch isolation.

And yes, it looks a bit different than SDS2000X+, it looks like a "baby SDS6000A".

As Martin said, it might have significant impact on RTB2000 (that has no 50 Ohm inputs) and even RTM3000 (with up to 350Mhz bandwidth) with more resolution and less noise. And also to many other lower bandwidth 8 bit scopes...

As for signal generator, I personally never cared much for built in AWGs either. They usually have limited specs (to varying degree) and limited amplitude. But they are more than good enough for basic things.
But killer app for internal AWG is FRA (Bode plot) because you get all in one instrument for FRA.

And since release, SDS2000X+ gained significant capabilities, we can reasonably expect there will be more additions to platform with time. And more polish and all kinds of improvements and optimizations... It is obviously a live development platform that now has fresh new 3-4 scopes running on it. Which means they count on it to carry them on in years to come.  Something similar to Keysight Infiniivision or Infiniium platform or LeCroy Xstream.
Good news for Siglent users.

[rf-loop]

Let me explain more about my source. I asked the sales manager at the country distributor to ask Siglent HQ directly when it will be available in European market. He wrote to Siglent and the answer was it will come in July,  but there is no clue about the pricing yet.

So you already got your answer.

It is coming. Yes. 
When? When it's ready. 
What exact models? We'll see. 
What will the prices be? We'll see. 

What do you expect to hear here? 
Nobody that has real details will speak before they are ready and allowed to. 

Everything else is waste of time and oxygen.  We'll just have to wait..

We can discuss technical details here though, that is not waste of time.. 

It hit right at the core of the matter.

And main thing what generate my previous msg was this.

The 500Mhz bandwith....When it´s not possible to have this bandwith with all channels active on a 4-channel device, you shouldn´t offer this.
Plus: the model labeling, sds2504...sounds like 500Mhz 4 channels, that´s not true.

Yes.

[nctnico]

The 500Mhz bandwith....When it´s not possible to have this bandwith with all channels active on a 4-channel device, you shouldn´t offer this.

Why not? There are several DSOs out there that have a higher bandwidth with 2 channels. In 4 channel mode the bandwidth gets limited. In the end having 2 channels is better compared to needing an extra oscilloscope.

[Martin72]

Hm, from that point of view you´re right.

[rf-loop]

Why not? There are several DSOs out there that have a higher bandwidth with 2 channels. In 4 channel mode the bandwidth gets limited. In the end having 2 channels is better compared to needing an extra oscilloscope.

As also Siglent SDS2000X Plus and SDS2000X HD. Both are 4Ch 350MHz and can be 2Ch 500MHz.

[Martin72]

Let me explain more about my source. I asked the sales manager at the country distributor to ask Siglent HQ directly when it will be available in European market. He wrote to Siglent and the answer was it will come in July,  but there is no clue about the pricing yet.

Only 7 weeks left...

[2N3055]

Let me explain more about my source. I asked the sales manager at the country distributor to ask Siglent HQ directly when it will be available in European market. He wrote to Siglent and the answer was it will come in July,  but there is no clue about the pricing yet.

Only 7 weeks left...

[Martin72]

 

[tautech]

I confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.

June actually, in ~10 days.
Pricing can be disclosed soon but for now datasheet is attached for study.

[Martin72]

Wonderful...

Only on the first sight they seem to be the same except 12 bit, a view at the key features offers more differences...
...This ain´t going to be cheap...

[2N3055]

There are many details not directly visible from datasheet too..
Counter has statistics and  a totalizer mode that can also be gated....
DVM has trend plot, histogram etc..

[Martin72]

It goes more and more in the lecroy direction, like it.

Ah, one more thing:
According to the sheet, all models will come with 500Mhz probes...

[tautech]

There are many details not directly visible from datasheet too..
Counter has statistics and  a totalizer mode that can also be gated....
DVM has trend plot, histogram etc..

Any Memory Management options ?

[rf-loop]

Hi rf-loop...

Nowhere has it been said or promised that the entire Chinese domestic market model series will be released as such to markets outside China.

It was mentioned a couple of weeks ago in this thread - And only 2 days before:

I confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.

So I had related my last post to that.
When it´s not true he should delete it.

Martin

As can see there is now leaked western area data sheet all can read and then there was these some old claims... let's hope @ozkarah do corrections...


There in data sheet can read models are SDS2104X HD, 2204X HD and 2354X HD.

Here in attached image is what is available in China domestic markets.
Model name SDS2504X HD is not for outside China markets.

Until Siglent "free to public" date come (soon) I do not say anything more (exept what is allready officially published and public in China).

[rf-loop]

There are many details not directly visible from datasheet too..
Counter has statistics and  a totalizer mode that can also be gated....
DVM has trend plot, histogram etc..

Any Memory Management options ?

Until Siglent "free to public" date come (soon)    who knows... 

[simone.pignatti]

"Model name SDS2504X HD is not for outside China markets."
The SDS2000X HD will have frequency upgrade options up to 500MHz in such case only 2 channels (interleaving).
Available models for EU:
SDS2104X HD
SDS2204X HD
SDS2354X HD

[TopQuark]

I am internally debating if I should get the SDS2104X HD or the Picoscope 5444D MSO for my next scope upgrade. For some context, I can get a SDS2104X HD for equiv. of 3422USD (today, if I wanted to), and the Picoscope for 3605USD. I currently own the SDS2074X Plus (hacked to 500MHz of course), I am quite happy with the user experience, and I will never own another scope without bode plotting.

The reason I am looking at an potential upgrade is I have a real need for very low noise measurements for an upcoming project, the more SNR and dynamic range I can get out of the scope, the better. Both scopes can achieve 70uV RMS noise floor, although the picoscope has to be limited to 65MS/s, while 70uV RMS is at full 500MHz BW for the SDS2504X HD, which will hopefully be even better if you limit the BW of the channel or turn on ERES etc.

I think if the SDS2104X HD can be hacked to 500MHz (as per usual), I might ditch the long held wish of getting a Picoscope 5444D, and go for the Siglent. At its price point, nothing seems to come remotely close in terms of low noise performance.

[mawyatt]

We got the PicoScope 4262 with 16 bit ADC awhile back for some detailed waveform analysis where the SDS2104X Plus didn't have the measurement resolution required.

The PicoScope is nice and worked well, but the tethered laptop is additional fuss to get setup and use, so the PicoScope remained a speciality instrument only used when required, and the SDS2104X Plus is the "goto" scope for everything else.

Never been a fan of instruments that require a laptop, phone or other computer, and always look for stand alone solutions within the budget if possible.

If you decide on the SDS2104X HD please let us know what you think and how well it behaves

Best,

[egonotto]

Hello,

TopQuark:
"The reason I am looking at an potential upgrade is I have a real need for very low noise measurements for an upcoming project, the more SNR and dynamic range I can get out of the scope, the better. Both scopes can achieve 70uV RMS noise floor, although the picoscope has to be limited to 65MS/s, while 70uV RMS is at full 500MHz BW for the SDS2504X HD"

I belief that SDS2504X HD is better for SNR. How will be the SNR at 1 V/div

Here pictures of a picoscope 4262 and 5243A and 5444B
+-10 mV and +-5 V
Sometimes zoom is used to see the noise better. On 4262 is a 50 Ohm terminator to prevent to much noise from outside.

Best regards
egonotto

[Martin72]

The scope will not "only" come with 500Mhz probes, it comes also with a cordless mouse...

After reading the rest of the datasheet, this scope is a "confusing" model in the portfolio.
It comes very close to the SDS5000, partly over it.
The "true" 12bit will make it unique in the row of official avaible siglent scopes for western market. (and unique in general, what "cheap" scopes concerns)
I wonder who will buy a SDS5000 then when he don´t need 1Ghz.

[2N3055]

Hello,

TopQuark:
"The reason I am looking at an potential upgrade is I have a real need for very low noise measurements for an upcoming project, the more SNR and dynamic range I can get out of the scope, the better. Both scopes can achieve 70uV RMS noise floor, although the picoscope has to be limited to 65MS/s, while 70uV RMS is at full 500MHz BW for the SDS2504X HD"

I belief that SDS2504X HD is better for SNR. How will be the SNR at 1 V/div

Here pictures of a picoscope 4262 and 5243A and 5444B
+-10 mV and +-5 V
Sometimes zoom is used to see the noise better. On 4262 is a 50 Ohm terminator to prevent to much noise from outside.

Best regards
egonotto

Just some quick preliminary noise numbers.... These are not "official" numbers or guaranteed in any way, mind you...

2mV/div (rough equivalent to pico +-10mV, actually +-8mV) @50Ω
72µV RMS BW 500 MHz
47µV RMS BW 200 MHz
24µV RMS BW 20 MHz

1V/div (rough equivalent to pico +-5V, actually +-4V) @50Ω
5,2mV RMS BW 500 MHz
5mV RMS BW 200 MHz
3,8mV RMS BW 20 MHz

Pico 4262 is still a special thing for low frequencies...

But SDS2000X HD has seriously low noise for the bandwidth..

[TopQuark]

Here pictures of a picoscope 4262 and 5243A and 5444B
+-10 mV and +-5 V
Sometimes zoom is used to see the noise better. On 4262 is a 50 Ohm terminator to prevent to much noise from outside.

Thanks for all the data, really appreciate it. I want 10MHz bandwidth, so the Pico 4262 is probably out of the question for me. Pico 5000 is nice, but the SDS 2000X HD just seems to be better, especially considering it works with my SDG 2042X for bode plotting.

Just some quick preliminary noise numbers.... These are not "official" numbers or guaranteed in any way, mind you...

2mV/div (rough equivalent to pico +-10mV, actually +-8mV) @50Ω
72µV RMS BW 500 MHz
47µV RMS BW 200 MHz
24µV RMS BW 20 MHz

1V/div (rough equivalent to pico +-5V, actually +-4V) @50Ω
5,2mV RMS BW 500 MHz
5mV RMS BW 200 MHz
3,8mV RMS BW 20 MHz

The noise spec is really good for what is a general 500MHz benchtop oscilloscope. I think they should seriously consider adding DSA functionality to it for looking at DUT noise spectral density. I'll buy the scope in a heartbeat if they added that, though it probably isn't that difficult to hack together something in Python to do that.

I think I'll buy the scope next month to celebrate one month of full time employment as an engineer, graduating from university  .