Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.  (Read 150584 times)

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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #725 on: September 22, 2023, 06:50:14 pm »
If this were available, it would be my next scope. ;)
But I'm afraid it won't be. :(
Either way, it should get its own thread.

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #726 on: September 22, 2023, 07:12:37 pm »
While we are waiting for a firmware update for over a year now, Siglent is busy in creating new models. After the low end SDS1000 HD, the SDS 3000 HD is about to come....

Bandwidth 350Mhz/500Mhz/1Ghz
4GS/s Sampling rate
12 bit

One thing that Siglent does is that they develop platform... That means that as new models come out, and new stuff is developed,some stuff propagates to other models that came before.
SDS2000X HD will get new FW with many features that will expand it's capabilities. As Performa01 said, beta that has 4 math channels and other things has been aground for months now. Yes there is work on new models (and that is nothing new) and when beta test specimens are available we will see what they are and the rest of the data. In meantime there is log frequency plot in FFT being tested on SDS6000 platform... That will probably trickle down too..
I'm not privy to internal strategical decision process in Siglent, but they have internal rules to NOT release something if it is not working well to the extent that internal testing and beta test team can test realistically. And I grew to respect their attitude in this regard.
That does not mean they are slow to develop. Record is 4 hours for a beta FW respin after I had a comment...
It is just as you develop many things and platform becomes behemoth of features, regression testing after integration takes time...
And they still keep adding new stuff.
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #727 on: September 22, 2023, 07:13:22 pm »
If this were available, it would be my next scope. ;)
But I'm afraid it won't be. :(
Either way, it should get its own thread.

I'll let you know if there is hope... >:D
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #728 on: September 22, 2023, 07:52:55 pm »
I don't have the slightest doubt that Siglent will release a very good quality firmware, so I'm happy to wait and all other HD owners should have the same patience, it's worth it.
 
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Offline teddychn

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #729 on: September 23, 2023, 08:21:59 am »
My top wishes include improving the Bode plot speed and adding a logarithmic scale to the FFT frequency axis.
Well, Bode Plot speed improvements are difficult if good results are expected, especially at lower frequencies, such as the audio range. But I might start a discussion at Siglent eventually, how we could maybe create a "quick and dirty" operating mode that sacrifices cleanliness and accuracy for speed...

Regarding the FFT, do you mean something like this (reply #46)? ;)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg7000a-350-500-mhz-and-1-ghz-awgs-coming/msg5073394/#msg5073394

Exactly!  8)
The FFT screenshots are what I'm dreaming of to a T. Did you hint it's right on the corner to the 2KHD? Right?  :clap:

Regarding the Bode-Plot speed. Yes, a selectable quality/speed mode would make it much more practical. Actually, for the speed reason, I have been opting for the AD2 instead of using this scope for measuring Bode plots.
 

Offline Ulrich.G

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #730 on: September 29, 2023, 12:23:01 pm »
One thing that Siglent does is that they develop platform... That means that as new models come out, and new stuff is developed,some stuff propagates to other models that came before.
SDS2000X HD will get new FW with many features that will expand it's capabilities. As Performa01 said, beta that has 4 math channels and other things has been aground for months now. Yes there is work on new models (and that is nothing new) and when beta test specimens are available we will see what they are and the rest of the data. In meantime there is log frequency plot in FFT being tested on SDS6000 platform... That will probably trickle down too..
I'm not privy to internal strategical decision process in Siglent, but they have internal rules to NOT release something if it is not working well to the extent that internal testing and beta test team can test realistically. And I grew to respect their attitude in this regard.
That does not mean they are slow to develop. Record is 4 hours for a beta FW respin after I had a comment...
It is just as you develop many things and platform becomes behemoth of features, regression testing after integration takes time...
And they still keep adding new stuff.

I wonder what the marketing of this "High Resolution" platform will be. Its strange that they are coming in different design. Some are grey (2000X HD/6000 HD pro) the others 1000X/3000X HD are in black. Also the top model 7000A. I would not be surprised when the scopes in black design are for the chinese market only.

I'm totally fine with my SDS2000X HD as it is right now, nothing to complain about. My comment on the new SDS 3000X HD was more a surprise than criticism.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #731 on: September 29, 2023, 02:37:12 pm »
One thing that Siglent does is that they develop platform... That means that as new models come out, and new stuff is developed,some stuff propagates to other models that came before.
SDS2000X HD will get new FW with many features that will expand it's capabilities. As Performa01 said, beta that has 4 math channels and other things has been aground for months now. Yes there is work on new models (and that is nothing new) and when beta test specimens are available we will see what they are and the rest of the data. In meantime there is log frequency plot in FFT being tested on SDS6000 platform... That will probably trickle down too..
I'm not privy to internal strategical decision process in Siglent, but they have internal rules to NOT release something if it is not working well to the extent that internal testing and beta test team can test realistically. And I grew to respect their attitude in this regard.
That does not mean they are slow to develop. Record is 4 hours for a beta FW respin after I had a comment...
It is just as you develop many things and platform becomes behemoth of features, regression testing after integration takes time...
And they still keep adding new stuff.

I wonder what the marketing of this "High Resolution" platform will be. Its strange that they are coming in different design. Some are grey (2000X HD/6000 HD pro) the others 1000X/3000X HD are in black. Also the top model 7000A. I would not be surprised when the scopes in black design are for the chinese market only.

I'm totally fine with my SDS2000X HD as it is right now, nothing to complain about. My comment on the new SDS 3000X HD was more a surprise than criticism.

And my comment wasn't a criticism either.  Just wanted to explain few things that might not be a common knowledge.

As for colors, I don't know. Usually you decide to make new "image" on new products but that does not necessarily mean you  will stop making other current products or that you will force visual format to old ones by force. Sometimes slight changes in plastic (to have different color or texture) need adjustments in molding process or casts.. Etc.

Keysight had two colours for few years, and for instance  MSOX3000T was beige all the time. When they needed to respin it with some hardware changes then they made 3000G that became black.

So it is not so black and white (pun intended)...  ^-^
 

Offline teddychn

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #732 on: October 04, 2023, 04:50:33 am »
The manual for the 1KHD now includes the option for log/linear frequency scales. We can expect this feature to be implemented in the upcoming firmware update for the 2KHD.

Additionally, the PDF manual also has included bookmarks. Very nice!
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #733 on: October 04, 2023, 08:39:51 pm »
You'll be happy to wait for the update...
I said yes, siglent will have its reasons why it is so "delayed" and reasons like this make me happy. ;)

Offline famalex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #734 on: October 08, 2023, 10:03:28 pm »
New, more attractive prices for the SDS2000X HD series in Europe. Therefore, if I knew how to upgrade a SDS2104 to SDS2504, I would order such a device tomorrow morning :-\
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #735 on: October 08, 2023, 10:17:07 pm »
Knowing how is of no use to you if you don't have it. ;)
That is the difference compared to the SDS2000Xplus.
And no, I can´t help...

Offline famalex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #736 on: October 09, 2023, 11:56:44 am »
Since I don’t know how to do this and you can’t help me, I won’t buy this scope. Let the marketing suffer. I'll continue with my old SDS2000X Plus  :D
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #737 on: October 09, 2023, 06:31:24 pm »
Well, then you don't really need it. ;)

Offline JimKnopf

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #738 on: October 09, 2023, 06:44:28 pm »
@famalex The world belongs to the brave!
 

Offline Ulrich.G

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #739 on: October 12, 2023, 09:58:33 am »
You'll be happy to wait for the update...
I said yes, siglent will have its reasons why it is so "delayed" and reasons like this make me happy. ;)

Firmware V1.2.2.5 is available - enjoy your 4 math traces :)


https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS2000X_HD_V1.2.2.5_EN.zip
 
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #740 on: October 12, 2023, 06:40:56 pm »
You'll be happy to wait for the update...
I said yes, siglent will have its reasons why it is so "delayed" and reasons like this make me happy. ;)

Firmware V1.2.2.5 is available - enjoy your 4 math traces :)


https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS2000X_HD_V1.2.2.5_EN.zip
Thanks
43MB download

Release notes:
Supported Memory traces: M1 ~ M4
Math: supported 4 traces: F1~F4
Decode: supported ARINC429
Supported USB-GPIB adapter
Fixed several bugs
a. Incorrect time after reboot when time zone = Europe/Rome
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline blackdog

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #741 on: October 13, 2023, 04:07:13 pm »
Hi,

I have loaded the latest Firmware into my SDS2000 HD.
That took me some sweating....

Twice the scope seemed to hang during Booting after the Firmware update.
It would be nice of Siglent if they would indicate that extra long Boot process after the Firmware update in the accompanying Firmware revision PDF.
Time is OK now, I can chose my local City time and it is remenbering the settings afther reboot.

Asked by many and it works now, 4x a Math channel instead of two.


Kind regards,
Bram
Necessity is not an established fact, but an interpretation.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #742 on: October 13, 2023, 04:10:51 pm »
Hi,

I have loaded the latest Firmware into my SDS2000 HD.
That took me some sweating....

Twice the scope seemed to hang during Booting after the Firmware update.
It would be nice of Siglent if they would indicate that extra long Boot process after the Firmware update in the accompanying Firmware revision PDF..........

Hi Bram,
I made that comment to Siglent already...
Best,
Siniša
 

Offline Ulrich.G

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #743 on: October 14, 2023, 08:43:18 am »
Twice the scope seemed to hang during Booting after the Firmware update.

I noticed this also, but wasn't really worrying about it. I think the reprogramming of the FPGA caused an extra boot to complete the overal update process.
 
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Online kripton2035

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #744 on: October 14, 2023, 11:45:32 am »
update went fine.
the problem with hitting "default" and the 10x probe isn't detected is still here...
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #745 on: October 18, 2023, 12:40:56 pm »
There have been dreams about a 14 bits oscilloscope that can resolve 25 µVpp signals and has at least 100 (better 200) MHz bandwidth. And it has to be cheap, of course, as always.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/best-14-bit-digital-oscilloscope/

It has been pointed out that this is physically impossible, because a pure 50 ohms resistor alone exhibits already ~60 µVpp noise at 100 MHz bandwidth.

Funny ideas like paralleling channels in order to reduce noise are not a serious approach either – for a number of obvious reasons.

This leaves us with averaging as the universal concept for measuring signals below the noise floor. Averaging also increases the resolution, so we could get even more than just 14 bits. For this to work, we need a copy of the signal strong enough to reliably trigger on.

When we think about the situations where we actually want to measure signals down in the microvolts, it usually has to do with EMI and related topics, i.e. unwanted feedthrough and crosstalk due to insufficient isolating/filtering/shielding. In most of these cases, a strong copy of the signal to be measured is available, such as the mains supply (even available as trigger source) in case of measuring weak residual mains hum, the signal from an antenna in case of RF interference from a nearby transmitter or the switching signal from an SMPS.

If the above requirement is fulfilled, then there is something else to be considered: fast HW-accelerated averaging for getting the results reasonably quick. Not strictly a requirement, yet very convenient to have. It just so happens that the SDS2000X HD averaging is very quick, so let’s have a look…

A square wave signal with ~25 µVpp amplitude at 1 MHz. The bandwidth of the input channel has been limited to 200 MHz for this test. Even on a low noise DSO like this, the signal is not recognizable in normal acquisition mode and noise fills up the entire screen at 50 µV/div:

SDS2504X HD_25µVpp_Square_Normal

256 times averaging is already enough to get a reasonably clear picture at 10 µV/div. The amplitude is measured much too high as 47 µV, just because of the residual noise:

SDS2504X HD_25µVpp_Square_Avg256

With 1024 times averaging, the signal representation should already be very acceptable. Of course, the amplitude measurement is still significantly off at 37 µV.

SDS2504X HD_25µVpp_Square_Avg1024

Finally, we try the 8192 averaging. The noise is almost completely gone, we can clearly see some synchronous interference signal at about 10 MHz. The amplitude level is now measured as 31 µV and this is as good as it gets with the remaining interferences. Yet reasonably close to the nominal value.

SDS2504X HD_25µVpp_Square_Avg8192

« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 12:46:18 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #746 on: October 18, 2023, 01:30:19 pm »
Yep, synchronous sampling works and has done so forever.

Classic analogish signal processing technique, that, as you've nicely shown, works quite well with these modern DSOs :-+

Best,
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 
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Offline maxwell3e10

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #747 on: October 18, 2023, 04:39:14 pm »
How long did it take to complete those 8192 averages? I found most scopes do averaging slow or with unreliable rate.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/scope-with-fast-waveform-averaging/
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #748 on: October 18, 2023, 09:45:26 pm »
To add to Performa's post, to put things even more in perspective...

Similar signal (few µV more, I ran out of attenuators  :palm:).
But since this scope has very good math implementation (quite powerful data connection routing graph, ways how can you pipe data through analysis engine), after we captured very small signal out of noise by averaging (creating synchronous sampling like Mike said), we can now apply FFT on top of suchly acquired waveform..

Take a look at dBm numbers...

@maxwell3e10, yes it takes few minutes, this is very extreme example. for looking at 100µV P-P signal 1024 averages would be enough and that settles very quickly. Like Performa said, it is hardware acquisition mode, you simply divide retrigger rate by number of averages, no additional overhead.
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #749 on: October 19, 2023, 08:02:57 am »
How long did it take to complete those 8192 averages? I found most scopes do averaging slow or with unreliable rate.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/scope-with-fast-waveform-averaging/
I'll be able to provide exact numbers when the next beta FW is available, because then we can time it precisely. I don't feel that it takes several minutes, but we'll see.

In the thread that you've linked there are already the results for 1024 averaging (a couple of % amplitude drop). For 50% amplitude drop we can have about 4000 averages.

EDIT: SDS6000 does 8192 averages in about one second. And I bet it's less than five seconds on the SDS2000X HD.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 12:03:56 pm by Performa01 »
 
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