Unfortunately, it is currently and at least so far only for the Chinese domestic market.
Interesting.
It seems that the wave gen output is at the rear though, which sucks.
Build in AWG output at back panelInteresting.
It seems that the wave gen output is at the rear though, which sucks.
Maybe it doesn't have AWG built in? Many scopes don't..
It´s a pity that it is not 14-bit like the Owon :)
Nice!! Dual 12 bit ADCs at 2GSPS :-+
Since it's 120VAC compatible as shown by Mains input, wonder if there's a way to get one sent to US ::)
Best,
It´s a pity that it is not 14-bit like the Owon :)
Nice!! Dual 12 bit ADCs at 2GSPS :-+Remember: LeCroy don't really care about the entry level segment...
Since it's 120VAC compatible as shown by Mains input, wonder if there's a way to get one sent to US ::)
Best,
Unfortunately, it is currently and at least so far only for the Chinese domestic market.
The SDS2000X Plus and SDS2000X HD are two completely and totally different devices
So don’t let the number 2000 lead to the idea that this would now be the newer 2000X Plus
Even the price is at least double, at least in China compared to the SDS2104X Plus and 2104X HD
Specs?
By now it should be clear that pricing in China and EU/rest of the world is quite different. So that is not important.
Yet for new Siglent products when they hit western markets they have always been cheaper than in the China marketplace.QuoteBy now it should be clear that pricing in China and EU/rest of the world is quite different. So that is not important.
Hard to believe that something will be cheaper selling in the EU than in china.
Maybe it is because how the market is structured with many layers of traders in between. A long time ago I went shopping for computer parts in Singapore; I went to a shopping center specialising in computer parts but I anything I looked at was like 20% more expensive and they wouldn't negotiate on the price. Lots of surprised faces that I could buy parts so cheap in the NL though.Yet for new Siglent products when they hit western markets they have always been cheaper than in the China marketplace.QuoteBy now it should be clear that pricing in China and EU/rest of the world is quite different. So that is not important.
Hard to believe that something will be cheaper selling in the EU than in china.
As everyone have seen in Siglent China web sides Siglent have published new model for China domestic markets.Forecast western markets release mid 2022.
It is SDS2000X HD.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/?action=dlattach;attach=1376234;image)
Unfortunately, it is currently and at least so far only for the Chinese domestic market.
................
As everyone have seen in Siglent China web sides Siglent have published new model for China domestic markets.Forecast western markets release mid 2022.
It is SDS2000X HD.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/?action=dlattach;attach=1376234;image)
Unfortunately, it is currently and at least so far only for the Chinese domestic market.
................
None yet until a week or 2 before release is normal.Forecast western markets release mid 2022.
Any ballpark price?
What are the differences from the 2000x plus series other than the bit depth?Both 10" display but HD is physically narrower....one column of buttons and the AWG BNC output narrower.
Display is 10.1-inch capacitive touch display, resolution 1024*600
None yet until a week or 2 before release is normal.Forecast western markets release mid 2022.
Any ballpark price?QuoteWhat are the differences from the 2000x plus series other than the bit depth?Both 10" display but HD is physically narrower....one column of buttons and the AWG BNC output narrower.
It seems the Quick Action button will have menus to the less used functionality and HD has a greater focus on touch display or mouse use.
Not translated the Chinese datasheet........yet.
https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS2000X%20HD_Datasheet_CN01A.pdf (https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS2000X%20HD_Datasheet_CN01A.pdf)
Obvious things I see after first look at the untranslated datasheet:None yet until a week or 2 before release is normal.Forecast western markets release mid 2022.
Any ballpark price?QuoteWhat are the differences from the 2000x plus series other than the bit depth?Both 10" display but HD is physically narrower....one column of buttons and the AWG BNC output narrower.
It seems the Quick Action button will have menus to the less used functionality and HD has a greater focus on touch display or mouse use.
Not translated the Chinese datasheet........yet.
https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS2000X%20HD_Datasheet_CN01A.pdf (https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS2000X%20HD_Datasheet_CN01A.pdf)
Sorry I wasn't clear but I meant what are the differences specs wise between these two series. OP's opinion is that these two are totally different instruments for different purposes but other than the bit depth, I don't think there are other differences in the specs(?)
What are the differences from the 2000x plus series other than the bit depth?The different (and more compact) physical appearance make it look a bit like the little bother of the SDS6000. It also seems to have new rotary encoders and knobs. Maybe they are all with indents now like in the SDS6000A.
Forecast western markets release mid 2022.
Math channels 2 (note: Average and ERES are now rt acq modes, they are not channel math.)
FFT is 2M
3 acquisition modes.
- Auto (this is Normal default mode with user definable memory max limit.)
- Fixed samplerate
- Fixed memory length
3 acquisition modes.
- Auto (this is Normal default mode with user definable memory max limit.)
- Fixed samplerate
- Fixed memory length
Here's an old screenshot just to demonstrate, what a proper 12 bit acquisition system can do.
Mind you, this is not from an SDS2000X HD, yet shows the same effect.
12Bit_VRes
You can see a rising ramp in Dots display mode and 100x vertical zoom.
You can count the dots (represented by short dashes) within one vertical division in the zoom window: it is 4.25 steps, i.e. 4.25 LSB.
This results in a total of 4.5 * 100 * 8 = 3400 LSB for the full screen hight of 8 divisions and still leaves about 0.8 divisions headroom above and below the visible screen area.
And you should value the evenly spaced steps, which hint on a very high linearity of a properly calibrated ADC. Nothing like the cheap solutions up to even 14 bits, where the dots would be all over the place because of the high DNL/INL, and the transfer curve might not even be guaranteed to be monotonic.
Here's an old screenshot just to demonstrate, what a proper 12 bit acquisition system can do.
Mind you, this is not from an SDS2000X HD, yet shows the same effect.
12Bit_VRes
You can see a rising ramp in Dots display mode and 100x vertical zoom.
You can count the dots (represented by short dashes) within one vertical division in the zoom window: it is 4.25 steps, i.e. 4.25 LSB.
This results in a total of 4.5 * 100 * 8 = 3400 LSB for the full screen hight of 8 divisions and still leaves about 0.8 divisions headroom above and below the visible screen area.
And you should value the evenly spaced steps, which hint on a very high linearity of a properly calibrated ADC. Nothing like the cheap solutions up to even 14 bits, where the dots would be all over the place because of the high DNL/INL, and the transfer curve might not even be guaranteed to be monotonic.
QuoteForecast western markets release mid 2022.
With 12bit native resolution....
I´m very curious about the entry price then.
QuoteForecast western markets release mid 2022.
With 12bit native resolution....
I´m very curious about the entry price then.
Its price starts at 22,880 RMB (about 3,600 USD)
Lower noise floor (e.g. 70 µVrms @ 1 mV/div, 500 MHz bandwidth, 50 ohms)
By marketplace do you mean a specific website, or general chinese domestic markets, including the cheapest sources?Yet for new Siglent products when they hit western markets they have always been cheaper than in the China marketplace.QuoteBy now it should be clear that pricing in China and EU/rest of the world is quite different. So that is not important.
Hard to believe that something will be cheaper selling in the EU than in china.
And regarding the scope: Which ADC is used?
Excuse my ignorance but is there any chance that this scope would be able to do some oversampling to get more than 12-bit resolution?Without digging through the datasheet it's very likely if it has an additional 3 bits of ERES like all other modern Siglent DSO's.
12bit native resolution won´t be enough for your purposes ? ;)
Btw, Eres is also avaible on this scope.
And regarding the scope: Which ADC is used?
And how would we know.. This whole discussion here is just a chat about datasheet. Nobody yet has one, much less have opened it.... There will be some time before it get released to the world...
And regarding the scope: Which ADC is used?
And how would we know.. This whole discussion here is just a chat about datasheet. Nobody yet has one, much less have opened it.... There will be some time before it get released to the world...
Well, there are some insiders here, so if it is not a secret they could already have asked. And if it is a secret, than having a teardown won't help either.
Just like the 8-bit DSOs, the resolution of the 12-bit variants can be further enhanced by using the ERES acquisition mode and or math function. Every half ERES bit adds one more full bit, hence doubling the resolution. However, acquisition memory as well as the display interface are limited to 16 bits, so ERES 2.0 acquisition or math is currently the maximum sensible setting on a 12-bit Siglent scope.12bit native resolution won´t be enough for your purposes ? ;)
Btw, Eres is also avaible on this scope.
I do strictly audio work so the more the merrier I guess...
Martin72, how do you like the Neutrik?
One of the chaps has a 12 bit Chinese 6000 on here I believe perhaps we could set up a couple of benchmarks with the 4000HD I still have a couple here.
I confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.
Here are some SDS2000X HD spec data
QuoteI confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.
5 months to wait...argh.. ;)QuoteHere are some SDS2000X HD spec data
2 things....3 things about:
The 500Mhz bandwith....When it´s not possible to have this bandwith with all channels active on a 4-channel device, you shouldn´t offer this.
Like my sds2k+, it gives you the feeling to have something limited, not finished - Couldn´t describe it better in a foreign language.
Everybody knows about the limitations in samplerate and memory in general what 2/4 channels concerns and don´t have a problem with it.
But bandwith...Unique thing.
Plus: the model labeling, sds2504...sounds like 500Mhz 4 channels, that´s not true.
Correct labeling should be 2502, although it got 4 channels.
Then the integrated awg...
I´m not a fan of it in general, this is too rudimental to be a serious alternative to stand-alone units.
So just leave it..
The mentioned specs are "horrible", 25Mhz instead of the 50Mhz the sds2k+ got.
Weak amplitude, very raw functions in general, 25Mhz only for sinewaves, 10Mhz square and, if I saw it right, poor 300Khz for triangle, still no FM/AM functions...Leave it.
When you buy a scope for 2500...3000€, you don´t need a internal awg, you already got one.
Apart from this all, when it will come, I´ll buy it immediately.
A true native 12bit scope for a entry price under the sds5000 series ( should be, otherwise the 5000 series makes no sense anymore apart the max bandwith)...
The RTB2000 series was called "A true gamechanger", well, this will be the next.
Nowhere has it been said or promised that the entire Chinese domestic market model series will be released as such to markets outside China.
I confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.
Hi rf-loop...QuoteNowhere has it been said or promised that the entire Chinese domestic market model series will be released as such to markets outside China.
It was mentioned a couple of weeks ago in this thread - And only 2 days before:
I confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.
So I had related my last post to that.
When it´s not true he should delete it.
Martin
Let me explain more about my source. I asked the sales manager at the country distributor to ask Siglent HQ directly when it will be available in European market. He wrote to Siglent and the answer was it will come in July, but there is no clue about the pricing yet.
Let me explain more about my source. I asked the sales manager at the country distributor to ask Siglent HQ directly when it will be available in European market. He wrote to Siglent and the answer was it will come in July, but there is no clue about the pricing yet.
So you already got your answer.
It is coming. Yes. :clap:
When? When it's ready. :-//
What exact models? We'll see. :-//
What will the prices be? We'll see. :-//
What do you expect to hear here? :-//
Nobody that has real details will speak before they are ready and allowed to. 8)
Everything else is waste of time and oxygen. :blah: We'll just have to wait..
We can discuss technical details here though, that is not waste of time.. :-+
The 500Mhz bandwith....When it´s not possible to have this bandwith with all channels active on a 4-channel device, you shouldn´t offer this.
Plus: the model labeling, sds2504...sounds like 500Mhz 4 channels, that´s not true.
The 500Mhz bandwith....When it´s not possible to have this bandwith with all channels active on a 4-channel device, you shouldn´t offer this.Why not? There are several DSOs out there that have a higher bandwidth with 2 channels. In 4 channel mode the bandwidth gets limited. In the end having 2 channels is better compared to needing an extra oscilloscope.
Why not? There are several DSOs out there that have a higher bandwidth with 2 channels. In 4 channel mode the bandwidth gets limited. In the end having 2 channels is better compared to needing an extra oscilloscope.
Let me explain more about my source. I asked the sales manager at the country distributor to ask Siglent HQ directly when it will be available in European market. He wrote to Siglent and the answer was it will come in July, but there is no clue about the pricing yet.
Let me explain more about my source. I asked the sales manager at the country distributor to ask Siglent HQ directly when it will be available in European market. He wrote to Siglent and the answer was it will come in July, but there is no clue about the pricing yet.
Only 7 weeks left... ;) 8)
I confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.June actually, in ~10 days.
There are many details not directly visible from datasheet too..Any Memory Management options ?
Counter has statistics and a totalizer mode that can also be gated....
DVM has trend plot, histogram etc..
Hi rf-loop...QuoteNowhere has it been said or promised that the entire Chinese domestic market model series will be released as such to markets outside China.
It was mentioned a couple of weeks ago in this thread - And only 2 days before:
I confirmed that SDS2000X HD models will be in the global market in July.
So I had related my last post to that.
When it´s not true he should delete it.
Martin
There are many details not directly visible from datasheet too..Any Memory Management options ?
Counter has statistics and a totalizer mode that can also be gated....
DVM has trend plot, histogram etc..
Hello,
TopQuark:
"The reason I am looking at an potential upgrade is I have a real need for very low noise measurements for an upcoming project, the more SNR and dynamic range I can get out of the scope, the better. Both scopes can achieve 70uV RMS noise floor, although the picoscope has to be limited to 65MS/s, while 70uV RMS is at full 500MHz BW for the SDS2504X HD"
I belief that SDS2504X HD is better for SNR. How will be the SNR at 1 V/div
Here pictures of a picoscope 4262 and 5243A and 5444B
+-10 mV and +-5 V
Sometimes zoom is used to see the noise better. On 4262 is a 50 Ohm terminator to prevent to much noise from outside.
Best regards
egonotto
Here pictures of a picoscope 4262 and 5243A and 5444B
+-10 mV and +-5 V
Sometimes zoom is used to see the noise better. On 4262 is a 50 Ohm terminator to prevent to much noise from outside.
Just some quick preliminary noise numbers.... These are not "official" numbers or guaranteed in any way, mind you...
2mV/div (rough equivalent to pico +-10mV, actually +-8mV) @50Ω
72µV RMS BW 500 MHz
47µV RMS BW 200 MHz
24µV RMS BW 20 MHz
1V/div (rough equivalent to pico +-5V, actually +-4V) @50Ω
5,2mV RMS BW 500 MHz
5mV RMS BW 200 MHz
3,8mV RMS BW 20 MHz
...
I think I'll buy the scope next month to celebrate one month of full time employment as an engineer, graduating from university ;D.
...
I think I'll buy the scope next month to celebrate one month of full time employment as an engineer, graduating from university ;D.
Congratulations !!
...This ain´t going to be cheap...
The high entry price of the SDS2K X HD is surprising me, I´ve expected something around 2000..2500€, won´t believe that 12bit will cost so much more while it got the same "poor" samplerate and limited 500Mhz bandwith capability.
Nevertheless I´m playing seriously with it to take the offer.
What's the price of other 12-bit options?
See, why make it cheaper?
|O |O |OThere are many details not directly visible from datasheet too..Any Memory Management options ?
Counter has statistics and a totalizer mode that can also be gated....
DVM has trend plot, histogram etc..
Until Siglent "free to public" date come (soon) :-X who knows... >:D
Me, I´m a fool in such things - When I want to have it, I will get it, in this case I like to work with our 12 bit lecroy and want to have the 12bit at home.
But let me sting a little bit...
|O |O |OThere are many details not directly visible from datasheet too..Any Memory Management options ?
Counter has statistics and a totalizer mode that can also be gated....
DVM has trend plot, histogram etc..
Until Siglent "free to public" date come (soon) :-X who knows... >:D
One only need study the OP again for this info..........revealed back in Feb !
Probably you are in need of a TEA session. If not, then the price is spot on! :D
Probably you are in need of a TEA session. If not, then the price is spot on! :D
;D
I´ve made my mind up and wrote batronix back - When the scope is avaible, it will be mine.
For this I must sell my 2504X+ ( ;) ), but I´ll still got possibilities to compare the two - We got some 2k+ at work..
Actually there is no better half, as the last better half leaved, the first thing I´ve done was to update my testgear. 8)Half the fun of buying test gear is to manage the better half. Last week I had great fun hearing my wife ranting for several minutes at what I had bought to put in the garden. She learned that she should look more carefull first; I flipped the garden bench that has been in our garden for 20+ years on it's side so it was standing upright. :-DD
And I´ve enjoyed the moment not to complain why I must have this... :-X
Actually there is no better half, as the last better half leaved, the first thing I´ve done was to update my testgear. 8)
And I´ve enjoyed the moment not to complain why I must have this... :-X
So let´s go shopping before the next...
So let´s go shopping before the next...
I flipped the garden bench that has been in our garden for 20+ years on it's side so it was standing upright. :-DD
What's the price of other 12-bit options?
That depends on your Ebay and test equipment dealer negotiation skills. I'm quite sure you can find a used Lecroy scope for a similar amount of money with some patience. Yokogawa has some models as well although not high speed but with isolated inputs. And then there are several USB oscilloscopes as well. The analog discovery is about the cheapest option (with 14 bit resolution!).The high entry price of the SDS2K X HD is surprising me, I´ve expected something around 2000..2500€, won´t believe that 12bit will cost so much more while it got the same "poor" samplerate and limited 500Mhz bandwith capability.
What's the price of other 12-bit options?
The information I got today in the morning, together with an offer from Batronix.Yes I will change it after official release date (yes I know exactly). Not before.
The whole day I´m thinking about... ;)
For this price you can get the SDS5034X (https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS5034X.html), no joke..
So if I want to spend the money, I have the choice between:
8 Bit 350Mhz 250Mpts 5GSa/s or 12 Bit 100Mhz 200 Mpts 2GSa/s....
The high entry price of the SDS2K X HD is surprising me, I´ve expected something around 2000..2500€, won´t believe that 12bit will cost so much more while it got the same "poor" samplerate and limited 500Mhz bandwith capability.
Compared one by one to the SDS5034X, there must be more advantages than "only" 12 Bit to justify this price.
Nevertheless I´m playing seriously with it to take the offer.
@rf-loop: Won´t you edit the title ? ;)
The high entry price of the SDS2K X HD is surprising me, I´ve expected something around 2000..2500€, won´t believe that 12bit will cost so much more while it got the same "poor" samplerate and limited 500Mhz bandwith capability.
..."only" 12 Bit...based to any idea about these ADC real prices and availability. Perhaps these two chips alone cost more than one whole SDS2kXplus.
That depends on your Ebay and test equipment dealer negotiation skills. I'm quite sure you can find a used Lecroy scope for a similar amount of money with some patience. Yokogawa has some models as well although not high speed but with isolated inputs. And then there are several USB oscilloscopes as well. The analog discovery is about the cheapest option (with 14 bit resolution!).The high entry price of the SDS2K X HD is surprising me, I´ve expected something around 2000..2500€, won´t believe that 12bit will cost so much more while it got the same "poor" samplerate and limited 500Mhz bandwith capability.
What's the price of other 12-bit options?
For those interested, here is size comparison, SDS6000A and SDS2000X HD compared to Keysight MSOX3000T..
For those interested, here is size comparison, SDS6000A and SDS2000X HD compared to Keysight MSOX3000T..
Why not a photo of both brothers? :-// Or the 3000T is the SI unit?
Nice, let´s see how long I have to wait for.
They actually look more like father and son...
So we will be two - let´s start a new thead... :-DD
Nice, let´s see how long I have to wait for.
Can I ask what the general history of pricing is with Siglent ?Generally set and forget however occasionally products are placed on special and sometimes for years like when SDG1032X was reduced to $319 but just recently returned to the release price of $359. :(
Generally set and forget however occasionally products are placed on special and sometimes for years like when SDG1032X was reduced to $319 but just recently returned to the release price of $359. :(
Now listed on batronix website:And Siglent US website:
https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS2104X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS2104X-hd.html)
The SDS2000X HD is too cheap now.
Do the 12 bit justify everything ?
Or is there more, not so obvious that makes it (a little bit) more expensive than the SDS5000X and too cheap like you said ?
;D
No Sir, this scope will be the absolute maximum I´ll spend money for.
And now fingers crossed that DHL will be my friend tomorrow.
Do the 12 bit justify everything ?
Or is there more, not so obvious that makes it (a little bit) more expensive than the SDS5000X and too cheap like you said ?
You will tell us. And, you can always later exchange it for a 6000 Pro... tic... tac...
And now fingers crossed that DHL will be my friend tomorrow.
One of the chaps has a 12 bit Chinese 6000 on here I believe perhaps we could set up a couple of benchmarks with the 4000HD I still have a couple here.
| Enhanced Bits, -3dB bandwidth 0.5 0.25*Samplerate 1 0.115*Samplerate 1.5 0.055*Samplerate 2 0.028*Samplerate 2.5 0.014*Samplerate 3 0.007*Samplerate |
I think I´ll get it on tuesday...I´m curious if there will be a user manual on CD.Nah, look harder:
Online there is only the spec sheet avaible.
Use the search function of adobe lazy as I am, nothing.Oh and another new feature to check out.....Probe Check. You can find it in the probe menu when setting up probe attenuation settings.
Will search manually later on.. ;)
Hello,2 things, Performa01 has used another FG/AWG than the inbuilt for his FRA examples and we see this from:
Thank you for all these measurements Performa01.
They are interesting but they don't show as big difference that we could expect
from 12 bits instead of 8.
In fact, we can say that the SDS2354X-Plus make a great job for an only 8 bits front-end. Of course the new HD model show cleaner trace.
The FRA noise floor measurement would be interesting, in the whole frequency range of generator (5Hz-50M),
to show how it perform with frequency, revealing also how cross-talk between channels is managed.
Could you try this ?
Regards
Frex
(Output of generator connected to "Vin" channel, and "Vout" channel connected leave unconnected or to ground).
The input level in this test was 24 dBm = 3.54 Vrms = 10.02 Vpp.Which is above the output levels of the inbuilt AWG.
Thank you for all these measurements Performa01.
They are interesting but they don't show as big difference that we could expect
from 12 bits instead of 8.
The FRA noise floor measurement would be interesting, in the whole frequency range of generator (5Hz-50M),
to show how it perform with frequency, revealing also how cross-talk between channels is managed.
Come on... you haven't done the VESA yet?? :-//Can help with that
Caved in and pulled the trigger on a SDS2104X HD, got it for 2900 USD, which is quite a nice discount given how new the scope is. ;D With luck it will arrive on saturday, otherwise it will be early next week.Congratulations!
First thing I am going to do is to try and hack/upgrade it, will report back any success or otherwise. >:D
>:D So, UNNAMED_LIC-V2 as expected since the software is shared with 5000 and 6000.
All can forget the public keygen. One needs the non-public. :popcorn:
I wanted MSO and Bode plot options, but I need additional 785€.
....
This new DSO is not a bargain any more, some nice to have features, 12 Bit could be done cheaper by a LNA if this allows.
Hp
....
This new DSO is not a bargain any more, some nice to have features, 12 Bit could be done cheaper by a LNA if this allows.
Hp
Could you please explain this ?
....
This new DSO is not a bargain any more, some nice to have features, 12 Bit could be done cheaper by a LNA if this allows.
Hp
Could you please explain this ?
As 12 bit gets lower sensitivity ... using an external LNA (Low Noise Amplifier) you may control the BW as you like for your application and have a gain of your choice as up to 60dB as using on PN or Audio measurements.
The thread seems to have died ...
Oh and another new feature to check out.....Probe Check. You can find it in the probe menu when setting up probe attenuation settings.
It checks for adequate/correct compensation and if OK assigns the probe a Pass.
This has also been introduced to SDS5000X.
0 dBm 632.5 mVpp
-60 dBm 632.5 µVpp
-65 dBm 355.7 µVpp
-70 dBm 200.0 µVpp
-75 dBm 112.5 µVpp
-80 dBm 63.2 µVpp
-85 dBm 35.6 µVpp
-90 dBm 20.0 µVpp
-95 dBm 11.2 µVpp
-100 dBm 6.3 µVpp
-105 dBm 3.6 µVppFirmware is 1.2.0.0
Test says ok, when turning on bode plot, internal awg button lit (and remains litting when you exit bode)
See attached "real" pics, in bode mode you can´t make screenshots (Bug imho).
When set it for Bode and start, Internal WG turns on... if I understood right?
Firmware is 1.2.0.0With Print or from within the Save/Recall menu ?
Test says ok, when turning on bode plot, internal awg button lit (and remains litting when you exit bode)
See attached "real" pics, in bode mode you can´t make screenshots (Bug imho).
and more
Save button can work just as Print button what save screenshot to USB.
BUT
It need of course first configure for this if not allready done.
Go to Utility menu. There select 3rd from top what is "Save Button"
Then in Save Button setup slect Type "Screen Shot"
When start using new instrument it is best to first do all configurations for own use... theree is many things...
There might be another pitfall which prevents you from taking a screenshot of the configuration dialog, which in turn makes you think "Print" (or "Save" as in the SDS2000X HD) does not work in Bode mode.And the plainly annoying fact that Siglent believe Hide Menu screenshots needs be a Default setting !
Look at the attached screenshot. Make sure that you set "Include Menu" to "Yes" in the Utility-Save/Recall menu. This is essential for the documentation of settings and bug reports.
Hi,
Now it works and I did.....Nothing except switching everything on again after returning to home.
Test says OK like before but this time the external awg will be activated like expected.
The only thing I´ve done was to change the usb-cable from backside to the front.
After this works, back to back like before - and still it works...
Strange....let´s see if I can recreate the former situation somehow.
Ah and now saving screenshots works too.
Actually there´s only one thing left, the old thing:
When turning off bode analyzer, awg stays on (output).
So can we say that a restart cured the problem?
Actually there´s only one thing left, the old thing:
When turning off bode analyzer, awg stays on (output).
And recovery from Bode to normal osciolloscope takes time... some times it leads to some dirty words...
The only thing I´ve done was to change the usb-cable from backside to the front.
After this works, back to back like before - and still it works...
Oh yes this. Someone forgot to auto hide that ! :horse:
What I don´t like when saving pics:
A confirmation appears when its done - As known and its good.
But you have to close the message manually.... ???
Martin
What I don´t like when saving pics:
A confirmation appears when its done - As known and its good.
But you have to close the message manually.... ???
and then you start Bode and it do not initialize external generator but it command internal.. least turn it button light on. (If I understood right your previous explanations)
There might be another pitfall which prevents you from taking a screenshot of the configuration dialog, which in turn makes you think "Print" (or "Save" as in the SDS2000X HD) does not work in Bode mode.And the plainly annoying fact that Siglent believe Hide Menu needs be a Default setting !
Look at the attached screenshot. Make sure that you set "Include Menu" to "Yes" in the Utility-Save/Recall menu. This is essential for the documentation of settings and bug reports.
Sometimes I wonder how to have them listen to us……it’s the same with Menu up times…..was just 5s now 10s after I bitched about this and Default default settings are annoying too, why not have 1V/Div and say 500us/Div, settings far more convenient for compensating probes.
For many of the beta testers the firmware installs are not such a thing but when you have half a shipment of scopes that all need updating the state in which the new firmware leaves them does matter !
/rant
QuoteAnd recovery from Bode to normal osciolloscope takes time... some times it leads to some dirty words...
Oh yes....Watching the sand-clock, watching the status in percent..... :P Needs some polish if possible.
Same when choosing PA
Ah btw, here a quick shot from the recreating bode like in the sds2000X+ thread..
What I don´t like when saving pics:
A confirmation appears when its done - As known and its good.
But you have to close the message manually.... ???
Martin
I hope you do not stop there.
What I don´t like when saving pics:
A confirmation appears when its done - As known and its good.
But you have to close the message manually.... ???
Yes. I believe that Santa's elves are doing a lot of work before Christmas.
Woosh, sorry it flew over your head. Not saying you can't understand so we'll take it to the Siglent forum where I hope some proper engagement can be had to explore where some of the default settings are so wrong.....There might be another pitfall which prevents you from taking a screenshot of the configuration dialog, which in turn makes you think "Print" (or "Save" as in the SDS2000X HD) does not work in Bode mode.And the plainly annoying fact that Siglent believe Hide Menu needs be a Default setting !
Look at the attached screenshot. Make sure that you set "Include Menu" to "Yes" in the Utility-Save/Recall menu. This is essential for the documentation of settings and bug reports.
Sometimes I wonder how to have them listen to us……it’s the same with Menu up times…..was just 5s now 10s after I bitched about this and Default default settings are annoying too, why not have 1V/Div and say 500us/Div, settings far more convenient for compensating probes.
For many of the beta testers the firmware installs are not such a thing but when you have half a shipment of scopes that all need updating the state in which the new firmware leaves them does matter !
/rant
Well, it depends. Of course, for me, after the introduction of that feature (excluding menus) my first thought was "WTF!", but then I realized that maybe the majority of users actually just want to print out the waveform and measurement results and not bother with menus that they need to hide before taking a screenshot.
The same goes for auto hide menus. If you don't like it, then disable it. But if it comes disabled per default, you might not even be aware that this feature exists. Few people do RTFM these days - and then, the manual is not always fully up to date anyway.
Few people do RTFM these days - and then, the manual is not always fully up to date anyway.
Ah btw, here a quick shot from the recreating bode like in the sds2000X+ thread..
Next I will try out are the differences this scope got in comparison to my former favorite sds2k+.
For example the memory management, this "fixed thing".
Welectron got the 100Mhz and 350Mhz models on stock :
https://www.welectron.com/Siglent-SDS2104X-HD-Oszilloskop (https://www.welectron.com/Siglent-SDS2104X-HD-Oszilloskop)
A high resolution oscilloscope can be a great tool for certain tasks and some expect it to be particularly suitable for audio work. While the theoretical 12-bit dynamic range of ~72 dB should be a major improvement compared to the ~49 dB of an 8-bit system, the pronounced 1/f-noise of a general purpose Oscilloscope might get in the way especially at audio frequencies.
This is a general statement, and I wanted to quantify it for particularly the SDS2000X HD.
Look at the first screenshot
SDS2504X HD_NSV_50_Normal_BW20MHz
This is the noise spectrum from 1 Hz to 1 MHz, at a vertical gain of 1 mV/div with 20 MHz bandwidth limiter, open input at 50 ohms impedance and normal acquisition.
We can see there is an 1/f characteristics below 1 MHz, with a moderate increase of 5 dB/decade from 100 kHz to 1 MHz. This is much more pronounced below 100 kHz, where we see a major step down to 1 kHz and at 100 Hz the noise gets worse by more than 30 dB compared to 1 MHz.
Simple conclusion: working with small LF-signals can be challenging.
Of course, it is still possible to reduce the noise. Average acquisition mode is very effective for this. The frequency response remains unchanged, hence this mode is perfectly suitable for static signals – it just suppresses signal changes like modulation. There is up to 14 dB improvement with just 16x averaging and up to 35 dB with the maximum of 1024x, so it is almost possible to compensate for the excessive 1/f-noise, but at a slow acquisition like 100 ms/div it obviously takes a lot of time.
SDS2504X HD_NSV_50_Avg1024_BW20MHz
The 1024x averaging now reveals spurious signals that we would never see otherwise. Take note of the strongest spur at around 622 kHz with a level of about -142 dBV. Of course this is really nothing. -140 dBV is already only 100 nVrms. The lowest visible spurs are just -162 dBV, so we’re able to measure signals below 10 nVrms…
The thing is that we need very slow timebase settings in order to capture low frequencies. At 100 ms/div we get a record length of one full second, which allows a lower bandwidth limit of 1 Hz. But this also means that 16x averaging takes at least 16 seconds just for the acquisition, and likewise it’s 1024 seconds (more than 17 minutes) for 1024x averaging. Of course, it can get faster if we make do with a higher lower bandwidth limit.
Some folks put high hopes in resolution enhancement techniques, but a higher resolution does not reduce the frontend noise. Any noise reduction effect comes from the lowpass filter effect – but this obviously won’t help at low frequencies. ERES2.0 increases the ENOB by 2 bits in theory, but the resolution is increased by 4 bists, so it makes for a total of 16 bits. At 20 MSa/s it starts to show a slight effect at 100 kHz and gets quite effective at 1 MHz.
The following table summarizes the results. It also includes the measurements for 1 meg input impedance, which doesn’t make much of a difference at most frequencies though.
Norm Avg 16 Avg 1024 ERES 2.0
Frequency 1M [dBV] 50 [dBV] 1M [dBV] 50 [dBV] 50 [dBV] 1M [dBV] 50 [dBV]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Hz -120.076 -119.272 -130.687 -130.018 -147.835 -118.742 -118.294
100 Hz -118.343 -120.791 -133.380 -130.826 -147.019 -119.660 -121.530
1 kHz -124.813 -127.056 -139.074 -136.987 -162.968 -125.774 -126.184
10 kHz -131.727 -141.982 -141.682 -150.861 -173.416 -131.434 -143.085
100 kHz -145.991 -149.912 -157.580 -160.940 -185.850 -149.188 -155.733
1 MHz -150.905 -150.224 -162.034 -158.489 -173.304 -166.809 -169.508
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm curious about sds2000x plus in the same setting.
1. The 1024x averaging now reveals spurious signals that we would never see otherwise. Take note of the strongest spur at around 622 kHz with a level of about -142 dBV. Of course this is really nothing. -140 dBV is already only 100 nVrms. The lowest visible spurs are just -162 dBV, so we’re able to measure signals below 10 nVrms…
2. Some folks put high hopes in resolution enhancement techniques, but a higher resolution does not reduce the frontend noise. Any noise reduction effect comes from the lowpass filter effect – but this obviously won’t help at low frequencies.
...so we’re able to measure signals below 10 nVrms…Yes IF... and this IF is big.
Any noise reduction effect comes from the lowpass filter effectYes but also noise reduction effect comes from what ever filter what reduce frequency band width - low pass, high pass and band pass filters all reduce freq BW and so also noise. (in theory fBW/10 drops noise 10dB.) Not only low pass.
With time domain trace averaging we can reveal spurious and other signals only when these are synchronized to acquisition (normally we talk trigged). If not, averaging attenuate these instead of pick up them from under noise. Example this 622kHz system generated very low level spur in your image.Quote...so we’re able to measure signals below 10 nVrms…Yes IF... and this IF is big.
IF we want measure very low signals using FFT and what need time domain trace averaging for pick up this signal from noise we need tight lock to this signal frequency.
If we have only this weak signal available... game is over because oscilloscope can not trig to this weak signal, trigger engine do not know it is there. So wehen it is "random" it is attenuated just as random noise.
2.QuoteAny noise reduction effect comes from the lowpass filter effectYes but also noise reduction effect comes from what ever filter what reduce frequency band width - low pass, high pass and band pass filters all reduce freq BW and so also noise. (in theory fBW/10 drops noise 10dB.) Not only low pass.
Also, in case of white noise, LP-filters (and BP, which can be looked at as a combination of LP and HP) are the most effective, because the noise energy within any octave or decade is proportional to its (start) frequency. If we had a system with 10 Hz to 100 MHz bandwidth, then a LP-filter that cuts off the highest decade (10 MHz – 100 MHz) is a million times more effective than a HP-filter that suppresses the lowest decade (10 Hz to 100 Hz). This can be different with practical circuits, especially general-purpose oscilloscope frontends, because of the excessive 1/f noise as demonstrated in my previous posting.
The 12-bit ADCs are from National:
https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/94198/NSC/ADC12010.html
The 12-bit ADCs are from National:
https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/94198/NSC/ADC12010.html
I don't think an ADC with a guaranteed 10 MSa/s speed would fit the bill in a 2 GSa/s instrument...
The ENOB of 11.3 bits sounds fantastic though ;)
Yes, I think this one is a more likely match: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/adc12d1000.pdf (https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/adc12d1000.pdf) Very slightly more expensive as well.
Yes, I think this one is a more likely match: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/adc12d1000.pdf (https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/adc12d1000.pdf) Very slightly more expensive as well.
Right, this sounds more like it.
A pair of these ADCs are already significantly more than the list price of an entire SDS2104X Plus...
Let's hope Siglent doesn't buy them individually... 8)
Sooner or later the ADC's prices will rise...Or the increased demand could make them cheaper. :)
Or the increased demand could make them cheaper. :)
(.....)
Sooner or later the ADC's prices will rise...well, only if you tells us how you did it ! Bravo by the way...
One thing I have noticed that's not available on the SDS2000X Plus, is the FFT is intensity graded and can be color graded as well, which is pretty nice.
yes +1 for a side by side comparison of the SDS plus vs the HD
apart from the 12 bits ADC, there is no clear difference for me.
It doesn’t make too much sense to compare software features, because unless there is a lack of resources, any feature might just be one new firmware version away.
It doesn’t make too much sense to compare software features, because unless there is a lack of resources, any feature might just be one new firmware version away.
Question in another format: makes more sense to compare the SDS2kHD to the SDS2k+ or the SDS6k?
found this comparison chart on a youtube video
You were serious when you said you wanted my filter ;D
Compared to the SDS2000X Plus, the SDS2000X HD has a higher end look and feel
, yet it is still the 2000 platform in terms of hardware. And this, among other things, means 500 MHz / 2 GSa/s maximum.
Sooner or later the ADC's prices will rise...any hint on how you did this ? thanks...
Sooner or later the ADC's prices will rise...any hint on how you did this ? thanks...
(holding on my credit card on batronix right now ...)
seems normal to me as the plus is given for 120000 wfm/s and the HD is given for 100000 on their datasheet.... and the HD always has to move twice as many data. There is only one or two bytes, 8 or 16 bits, so the 12 bit instrument has to use the 16 bit data path up to the final screen representation all the time. A fair comparison would be to the plus in 10-bit mode...
Try using a linear X axis range from 1KHz to 2KHz and adjust Y axis scale factor to suite.
Hi,
There are 10n 1% Caps and 10k 0.1% resistors used... 8)
And yes, I got 9 pcbs left... ;)QuoteTry using a linear X axis range from 1KHz to 2KHz and adjust Y axis scale factor to suite.
Will do.
On the 3rd pic, X1 shows 1.590Khz
@TopQuark,
Here a document from siglent how to test max. updaterate on 2000Xplus (and HD, why not).
As I remember it right, rf-loop didn´t like this for several reasons I´ve forgotten.
SDS2000X HD shows 3400 samples vertically.
SDS2000X HD shows 3400 samples vertically.
Please can you check this number if it is mistake or if not, where from it come?
| Waveform | f [Hz] | Ampl. [V] | Vpp [V] | AC-RMS [V] | RMS [V] | Crest [-] | Delta [%] | |
| Base Noise | 20,000E+6 | 20,646E-3 | 20,646E-3 | 2,093E-3 | 2,285E-3 | 4,518E+0 | -99,771% | |
| DC | 0,000E+0 | 20,553E-3 | 20,553E-3 | 1,977E-3 | 1,001E+0 | 10,262E-3 | 0,145% | |
| White Noise | 10,000E+6 | 8,175E+0 | 11,643E+0 | 1,037E+0 | 1,037E+0 | 5,613E+0 | 3,718% | |
| Pulse 10% | 1,000E+6 | 2,030E+0 | 2,055E+0 | 578,889E-3 | 1,018E+0 | 1,009E+0 | 1,808% | |
| Sine | 1,000E+6 | 2,810E+0 | 2,833E+0 | 995,847E-3 | 995,871E-3 | 1,422E+0 | -0,413% | |
| Square | 1,000E+6 | 2,027E+0 | 2,050E+0 | 997,381E-3 | 997,404E-3 | 1,028E+0 | -0,260% | |
| Triangle | 1,000E+6 | 3,219E+0 | 3,396E+0 | 995,957E-3 | 995,999E-3 | 1,705E+0 | -0,400% |
Bode for the yery last time... ;)
Question : What are the maximum, total amount of measure points possible ?
Can´t find it in the specsheet, manual.
Try and error by the user....hmmm...
What I´ve found out(In every case hitting the max button):
In linear mode it seems to be always 501 points, regardless of the frequency range.
In decade mode it is various, for example 70points/dec.* or 291 points/dec depending on the frequency range.
So does it mean, you will always have 501 points to measure in linear mode, but more in decade mode ?
Want to know the principle... :)
*) 70/dec on full range, but I had 99/dec max on 10Hz...1Mhz when testing the notch, seems relatively "poor" when it´s "only" getting to 1Mhz instead of 120.
For real measurement needs or for nice looking images.
So far, max total points is 501 (500 steps) in linear and in log (Decade) mode.
D. Set the number of sweep points. The larger the number of points, the higher the sweep
resolution
Very clever use of the SDS HD capabilities, need to give the X Plus a try!!I’ve tried this already but did not get any good results – certainly nothing better as with the traditional method (without mixing).
As you mentioned if Siglent would include full "length reference waveforms" then an external LO is not required, and if they incorporate some nice digital filters....well they open up a whole new user feature set and expand the simple DSO into the signal processing instrument space!!!In the SDS6000, we already have memory traces. Not sure if and when we’ll get that on lower end models, but it is a first step nevertheless.
Hi,
Bodeplot the very very very last... ;)
Maximum frequency is 120Mhz, according to the external connected generator I guess(SDG2000X for example).
SDG6000X got max 500Mhz, are there "natural" limitations which makes it not possible to get higher when the connected generator will "allow" this ?
Or can/will the maximum frequency in the menu increased someday ?
Maximum frequency is 120Mhz, according to the external connected generator I guess(SDG2000X for example).
SDG6000X got max 500Mhz, are there "natural" limitations which makes it not possible to get higher when the connected generator will "allow" this ?
Or can/will the maximum frequency in the menu increased someday ?
The phase/amplitude should be correctable with a calibration as mentioned. However, this does introduce a calibration step (will take some time) which could be selectable in the Bode menu, and if not user selected maybe a file or previous calibration data invoked.
Anyway, all this as usual is easy for armchair designers/engineers that don't have to do the work ::)
Same with the HD vs. perhaps the HDO4000.
Therefore "perhaps".
I used the SDS2354x to get an exact noise level of 0dBm with 40 MHz bandwidth from an SDG6054X.
To set the exact level of 223.6 mV the Measure -> Tools -> Trend -> Trent-Stdv function of the scope
is very helpful to get a 'quiet' reading.
I adjusted the SDG to for a reading of 223.5 mV average(stdv) from the scope, the SDG showed 256.8 mV output at 50 Ohm then.
I verified the reading of the scope with an SSA3032X-R which should have showed a level in dBm/Hz which is 10 * log(40E6) dB lower
at -76.02 dBm/Hz.
The analyzer readout was -75.85 dBm/Hz (f=10MHz,Zero Span,BW RBW=1kHz,VBW=10Hz. AVG=200) which showes a very satisfying
accuracy of Siglent measurement devices. :-+
With a noise-bandwith of 42 MHz the reading at the SSA was -76.0dBm/Hz!
The SDS2000Xplus scopes have more bandwith and therefore a better crest-factor than the old HP 3400A or 3400B rf-millivoltmeters.
Such a scope is a remunerative investment for hobbyists in many repects.
Can you post a similiar measurement with your SDS2000X-HD?
I like the numbered y-axis of the HD, hope this will come to 8-Bit variants as well.
I was wondering which way you read out the 0.1dB accuracy from of the second screenshot.
So far are you all happy with the scope?
Hi All SDS2000X HD owners, I'm currently contemplating this purchase.
I'm looking for a scope for my other bench. My current main scope is a MSO5000.
So my question is So far are you all happy with the scope?
Cheers 8)
2N3055 no specific concerns but I do think about things like is the UI user friendly (having not own siglent before)....FWIW a NZ corporate customer had a SDS2104X Plus on trial for a few days then a few weeks later and sight unseen ordered SDS2354X HD today.
2N3055 no specific concerns but I do think about things like is the UI user friendly (having not own siglent before) I find the mso5000 a bit clunky sometimes I've also had it crash.I spent a long time chasing a signal when the scope wasn't triggering because of a bug https://youtu.be/Fg9eL_EKgmE
trigger is almost pulled here too... still waiting for some "public" method to unlock it but ...
Pulled the trigger, I'm now a SDS2104X HD owner waiting for delivery :-+ :-+ :-+
a teas session might be in aid :scared:
My budget is decimated for the next 4 or 5 months :'(
You must take a break from reading this forum, my home budget may not be able to withstand it :scared:
Meh it will be worth it.
Which current probe ?
My budget is decimated for the next 4 or 5 months :'(
Here a little clip from me, showing the scope on my desk:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pQaO7TtJC80 (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pQaO7TtJC80)
Micsig2100B
I've included that in the video.
It seems to have a loud power supply when in standby I've included that in the video.
Anyone else experienced this?
I thought you owned one TV84?
The competitor shows up - now with US prices.
https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/hdo4000/ (https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/hdo4000/)
https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/hdo1000/ (https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/hdo1000/)
The competitor shows up - now with US prices.
https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/hdo4000/ (https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/hdo4000/)
https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/hdo1000/ (https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/hdo1000/)
With due all respect, not really a competitor..
It has 12 bit specified and that is all.. We have yet to see how it works.
It is also missing a lot of stuff.. Let's see how it works first, before passing opinions..
WOW, that magic not even mentioned in the manual :-+
Actually you can have a dedicated Force trigger button if you assign Force Trigger function to the Quick Action button. Works both in Single and Normal mode, too.
(Attachment Link)
Did the upgrade, let it warming up for self-cal.
After first rebooting, there were things to see that makes my pants wet.
But as I "touched" on it, it vanished for ever.
I swear I could hear a laugh:
Nanana-Na-Naaa.... 8)
Don´t know if this is a bug or not, therefore posting it here.Acquire menu = Dot mode. ;)
Soon as my HD arrived I took the bodnar pulser on it and wonder about the "stop and go" behaviour of the waveform displaying.
Never saw this before, thought this could be gone with a new firmware but it wasn´t so I post it.
"Stop and go" means, the displayed waveform is somekind of moving, then stopped shortly and the dots are visible, then the same again, periodly but not exactly the same time.
If I take the SDG1062X and feed 10Mhz Square into the scope, I don´t get this behaviour.
It´s not that easy..Auto or Fixed Mem mode ?
https://youtu.be/69YJ2UcYTgM
Auto Mode, tried several things without effect.Will check on the 6204A today too but it's currently packed in the SUV ready for a visit to a client so will pack the Leo pulser too and grab a screenshot or at least try and find if it does anything similar. :-\
Waveform seems to change between dots/vectors periodically and "paused" inbetween.
I´m pretty sure the Xplus fully armed to 500Mhz didn´t show this behaviour.
Will take the bodnar pulser to work, test it on the HDO 350Mhz and the Waverunner 500Mhz.
It looks like a synchronizing sampling issue to me. That probably means you have a signal frequency very close to the instrument's sampling frequency / reference clock frequency / internal processing frequency or their harmonics.It is combination of
Magic may happens if they are synchronized >:D, or some periodic behavior if not perfectly synchronized, e.g. frequency wandering of two independent source. Used to use this trick for very small signal measurement.
I tried to replicate this behavior by fine tune the signal frequency and got somewhat similar result.
It looks like a synchronizing sampling issue to me. That probably means you have a signal frequency very close to the instrument's sampling frequency / reference clock frequency / internal processing frequency or their harmonics.It is combination of
Magic may happens if they are synchronized >:D, or some periodic behavior if not perfectly synchronized, e.g. frequency wandering of two independent source. Used to use this trick for very small signal measurement.
I tried to replicate this behavior by fine tune the signal frequency and got somewhat similar result.
1. Very close frequecies/ harmonics
2. High frequence component -- mostly caused by wrong signal feeding/ impedance mismatch
3. Low sample rate - In your case the signal ringing is in GHz range
On positive side - You have to be happy that your scope timebase is so close to Bodnar reference.
@noisyee:
Pic 3&4 are 100Mhz ??
This is the fft screen of sds2000x plus.
1mv, 50ohm.
20M Bandwith, 10bit mode, 2M Memory, 1M fft point.
center:500khz, span:1Mhz, 100MSa/s, avr:16.
Spur noise of 90khz, 280khz, 500khz and 920khz occurs on all channels.
(Adjusting LCD Brightness will change the noise.)
I wonder what sds2000x hd is like when it's the same setting.
Can test it at work with lecroy WR9054(500Mhz, 8Bit) and HDO6054A (350Mhz, 12Bit).
Auto Mode, tried several things without effect.Will check on the 6204A today too but it's currently packed in the SUV ready for a visit to a client so will pack the Leo pulser too and grab a screenshot or at least try and find if it does anything similar. :-\
Waveform seems to change between dots/vectors periodically and "paused" inbetween.
I´m pretty sure the Xplus fully armed to 500Mhz didn´t show this behaviour.
Will take the bodnar pulser to work, test it on the HDO 350Mhz and the Waverunner 500Mhz.
TTYL
Yup, a quick look. Same effect not seen and didn't think I needed report such as SDS6000A has 2.5x sampling rate of a 2k series scope so no chance of seeing this effect. Nice clean and sharp Gibbs ears only. :)Auto Mode, tried several things without effect.Will check on the 6204A today too but it's currently packed in the SUV ready for a visit to a client so will pack the Leo pulser too and grab a screenshot or at least try and find if it does anything similar. :-\
Waveform seems to change between dots/vectors periodically and "paused" inbetween.
I´m pretty sure the Xplus fully armed to 500Mhz didn´t show this behaviour.
Will take the bodnar pulser to work, test it on the HDO 350Mhz and the Waverunner 500Mhz.
TTYL
And did you ?
Same effect not seen and didn't think I needed report such as SDS6000A has 2.5x sampling rate of a 2k series scope so no chance of seeing this effect.
You've only seen this once, right ?QuoteSame effect not seen and didn't think I needed report such as SDS6000A has 2.5x sampling rate of a 2k series scope so no chance of seeing this effect.
On my former SDS2504X+ I didn´t got the effect the HD shows...
Hope this not something I must live with.
Soon as my HD arrived I took the bodnar pulser on it and wonder about the "stop and go" behaviour of the waveform displaying.
Never saw this before, thought this could be gone with a new firmware but it wasn´t so I post it.
It´s not that easy..
https://youtu.be/69YJ2UcYTgM
at least I'm not a so-called clairvoyant)
Videos from today, 5ns timebase, auto memory, normal acquire...
https://youtu.be/6CxySRctuMw (https://youtu.be/6CxySRctuMw)
Dot mode
https://youtu.be/LUHSZjYWaiw (https://youtu.be/LUHSZjYWaiw)
Vector mode
https://youtu.be/J1Wv7c-rCzg (https://youtu.be/J1Wv7c-rCzg)
Several timebases, dot mode
Everytime reproducable on every channel.
And it´s not periodically, the pauses inbetween, where the signal looks normal, are changing.
I'd like to see a comparison video of the sds2104xplus vs a similar Rigol.Video by Howardlong linked in the 1st post here is worth a watch:
Looks like something with (whatever this means):
hw_adc_bits = 12
data_adc_bits = 16
Another way to do this is to use the time domain impulse function as input since it's Fourier Transform is just unity across all frequencies so no need to do an FFT on the input, then perform the FFT only on the output as required.
Reason why it is implemented this way is maximizing dynamic range and resilience to outside noise and signals.
Another way to do this is to use the time domain impulse function as input since it's Fourier Transform is just unity across all frequencies so no need to do an FFT on the input, then perform the FFT only on the output as required.
Good point, might give that a shotReason why it is implemented this way is maximizing dynamic range and resilience to outside noise and signals.
In an ideal world both methods would be implemented in the scope. The scope does not need to transfer the data to an external PC (cut time by 50%), and FFT can be hardware accelerated like it already does (save most of the remaining 50%). I'd gladly trade the fixed gain mode in the bode plot menu for this approach, and leave the auto gain set mode for precision work.
The same "single-shot" approach can be used with other stimulus signals that might give better results:
1) For best SNR/measurement time, we would like to get as much signal power into the DUT as we can but this is usually limited by the max. peak-to-peak voltage range of the generator or the linear range of the DUT and receiver. So a stimulus should have high RMS power at a given level (i.e. it has low crest factor). White noise has high peaks so that is not good (in fact, ideal white noise basically would have infinite crest factor).
Similarly, a unit impulse is essentially the mathematical limit of compressing a given pulse energy into something with an infinitely high peak. So this is generally not something we should strive to approximate as a stimulus source and a big reason people usually do not try to measure impulse response directly. (Because of the theoretical importance of the impulse response it is still a good experiment if you are doing it for the educational value).
2) A nice bonus would be a stimulus that is periodic for our measurement time. Then we would not have to window our FFT and get zero spectral leakage for free.
The most common solution is a sine "chirp", i.e. a sine with continuously varying (instantaneous) frequency. That may sound suspiciously similar to the "stepped" approach but there are no steps and you don't stop for measurements either. You still record it all in one go and then apply FFT. It has the same crest factor as a fixed sine and covers a wide (adjustable!) spectral range.
I also want to briefly mention that maximum length sequences (MLS) could also be used. They are periodic, pseudo-random binary sequences and are quite interesting from a theoretical perspective (but a bit tricky to properly use in practice).
Another way to do this is to use the time domain impulse function as input since it's Fourier Transform is just unity across all frequencies so no need to do an FFT on the input, then perform the FFT only on the output as required.
Good point, might give that a shotReason why it is implemented this way is maximizing dynamic range and resilience to outside noise and signals.
In an ideal world both methods would be implemented in the scope. The scope does not need to transfer the data to an external PC (cut time by 50%), and FFT can be hardware accelerated like it already does (save most of the remaining 50%). I'd gladly trade the fixed gain mode in the bode plot menu for this approach, and leave the auto gain set mode for precision work.
The impulse method also suffers from limited dynamic range, even more so than the broadband noise input method.
The method Siglent utilizes "seems" (don't know exactly how this is implemented) to employ a method similar to the classic Synchronous Sampling technique which effectively straps a narrow bandpass filter around the sampling to significantly reduce outside influence and "noise" effects.
Your DSA efforts sound interesting, and with the available chips could yield excellent results in the hands of a knowledgable designer like yourself ;)
Best,
EEVBlog guru: "I have an idea!"
Mike: "Done that."
I love it. :clap:
Promo-weeks until 31.12., e.g. Batronix:Do note the SDS5000X range is also included in this promo:
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS2000X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS2000X-hd.html)
Including free decoder bundle and bandwidth upgrade to the next level.
whaou the decoder offer is worth EUR 2500 !SPL2016 is not part of the SDS2000X HD promotion. Did you plan to add it to a purchase ?
I don't need most of them, may be i2s one day but this is a nice offer.
edit: RAT! the logic probes are out of stock until 30-40 days...
/usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk1 # ./rusty_siglent_app
Hello, world!!!
I´m still hoping there will be a discount offer for the probes only someday.yep a digital probe clone on ebay is only $50 ...
Yes, there will be DIY alternatives, but I like to have the "original".
But not for this price. 8)
Having some fun with writing apps for the scope:would you like to publish the source code of this "hello" app ?Code: [Select]/usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk1 # ./rusty_siglent_app
Hello, world!!!
Having some fun with writing apps for the scope:would you like to publish the source code of this "hello" app ?Code: [Select]/usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk1 # ./rusty_siglent_app
Hello, world!!!
nix develop to reproduce my my cross compile environment and nix build to cross compile the correct binaries. I do have the MSO option, but unfortunately no logic probes... :(Sorry, no SDS2000X HD here.
Maybe tautech can test it when he got a HD there.
I do have the MSO option, but unfortunately no logic probes... :(Sorry, no SDS2000X HD here.
Maybe tautech can test it when he got a HD there.
Surely not 16wfms/s...
It has to be in Slow mode, because it has to capture buffer and process all of it before going to next one.
Sorry, no.I do have the MSO option, but unfortunately no logic probes... :(Sorry, no SDS2000X HD here.
Maybe tautech can test it when he got a HD there.
@tautech, is it possible for you to reach out to Siglent and ask them what we should expect out of the HD in terms of digital channel waveform update performance? Thanks
Surely not 16wfms/s...Yeah I get 16wfms/s too.
Well in that mode it handles double the data and data is routed slightly differently.. It has to be in Slow mode, because it has to capture buffer and process all of it before going to next one. It cannot just do bursts like in Fast mode.
Martin, you can check without probes, enable digital channels, and connect 100KHz (or more) signal to CH1 and trigger on that..
@TopQuark, sorry, what FW are you running..
Sorry, no.I do have the MSO option, but unfortunately no logic probes... :(Sorry, no SDS2000X HD here.
Maybe tautech can test it when he got a HD there.
@tautech, is it possible for you to reach out to Siglent and ask them what we should expect out of the HD in terms of digital channel waveform update performance? Thanks
First consult datasheet and manuals then wait for feedback from the few beta testers watching this thread as they have more direct contact with product managers than anybody.
I do note max sampling is listed in the datasheet as 500 MSa/s and Memory Depth 50 Mpts/ch although analog memory settings might also impact on WFPS performance. Those with these instruments at their fingertips are best qualified to research this issue.
On the SDS2504X Plus it is significantly faster at 2300 wfm/s, digital phosphor works, where you can see the digital trace overlap, the responsiveness is much better, and fast mode can be toggled on in the acquire menu. It is almost like the digital channels are processed in software on the HD, whereas the Plus processes it in hardware.
OK, try it later on friday.
Can anyone with the SDS2kHD and a digital probe set verify what I am seeing? It seems like the digital channel capture rate of the HD is very very slow compared to the SDS2k Plus.
I am only getting 16 wfm/sec on the HD (100ns/div, 2kpts, 8 channel), whereas the Plus is achieving 2.3k wfm/sec with the same settings. :scared: I have reset the scope a few times and repeated the tests, and the results are the same.
Also on the HD, fast mode in the acq menu cannot be activated with digital channels on, whereas that's possible on the Plus.
I am considering buying but can I hack it? How? I am not finding anything...
I am considering buying but can I hack it? How? I am not finding anything...I'm with you, I'm in the market for a scope of this caliber. I'm up for buying one but if it's not exactly hackable, I'm leaning to the SD2000x+
Actually you get a bandwithupgrade and the decoders for free when buying a HD, just saying... ;)
IMHO a easy to hack guide won´t be published because it is not easy to hack.
But it could be done, that´s assured.
The rest TopQuark have already "said" in his last post.
How do I get an invitation to the HD owners club ;D
And the building quality itself is more "pro-like"..100%
It's a really nice scope.
This unit came with a wireless mouse like SDS6000A
I really like the trigger light that is the same color as the channel you're triggering.Quite sure SDS6000A does that too.
Let me see what I can do from the other side of the world. ;) We have a large network. :)QuoteThis unit came with a wireless mouse like SDS6000A
What the.... 8)
Mine came without, maybe another disadvantage when you´re a (very)early bird.... ;)
The HD is more 5000/6000 than the 2000Xplus, partly more 6000 than 5000.IMO HD screams baby 6kA. I have owned all these ^ at some time.
Question for HD gurus.
"Since ERES is hardware based can the FFT operate with ERES as raw data?"
Would be nice if Bode could also do same ::)
Probably already been answered somewhere, but can't remember answer ???
Best,
SDS6000A vs SDS2000X HD size comparison.
Mini-Me pocket rocket. :)SDS6000A vs SDS2000X HD size comparison.
Holy shit, Dr. Evil and his Mini-Me... ;D
Hi Rob,Q.
Forget to post it in the Bug/Feature thread, but this I already know it(we use this for our test documents at work)
I´ve asked for black&white.
On the mentioned LeCroy's you can choose the colours also for printing.Do you use the user defined trace colors in your HD or X Plus that have been there all along ?
SDS6000A vs SDS2000X HD size comparison.
Holy shit, Dr. Evil and his Mini-Me... ;D
Hi Rob,Edited for clear meaning. ^
Yes we do use this on our Xplus at work - Because when you leave the colours to default, you can see them good on the screen, but when printing it is hard to see them, best example ch 1 and it´s yellow.
So we change the colours to get a good printing - but the default colours on screen are good when looking at the screen...
So different trace color settings for Display and Printing would be cool.
Actually we use the siglents for documentating loadsteps, using the invert mode and change the colours until they are good visible on our printed out reports.
Hi Rob,Edited for clear meaning. ^
Yes we do use this on our Xplus at work - Because when you leave the colours to default, you can see them good on the screen, but when printing it is hard to see them, best example ch 1 and it´s yellow.
So we change the colours to get a good printing - but the default colours on screen are good when looking at the screen...
So different trace color settings for Display and Printing would be cool.
Actually we use the siglents for documentating loadsteps, using the invert mode and change the colours until they are good visible on our printed out reports.
This is the key to your feature request so make sure that's clear as beta testers and product engineers can easy understand what you ask for.
Hopefully we can have a good chat about this in the Features/bugs thread.
Yep, this is a "pro" request, normally hobbyists don´t have this "problem".Strongly disagree however that's only my opinion. Convince me otherwise.
BTW, printing the screen as it is is maximum horrible to view on documents.
I´ll show some examples tomorrow or the next days and then in the feature thread.
Yep, this is a "pro" request, normally hobbyists don´t have this "problem".Strongly disagree however that's only my opinion. Convince me otherwise.
BTW, printing the screen as it is is maximum horrible to view on documents.
I´ll show some examples tomorrow or the next days and then in the feature thread.
Hi,:-//
Saw defpoms video about the SDS6000A (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds6000-pro-10-and-12-bit-dso-coming/msg4551227/#msg4551227) a few minutes ago.
I saw that you can choose in the memory management menu "fixed samplerate", something I also know from lecroy scopes - But it´s not avaible for the HD, only auto mem and fixed mem.
Will it be implemented in ne of the next firmware updates or is this missed because of the lower samplerate of the scope ?
(Slightly) OT:Mine came with 25 x M3 bolts and nuts for legs with the threaded shank as the foot. :palm:
I was fed up with the two boards (deskew fixture and demo-board) being naked, now they have a base plate, which looks a bit better and is also more comfortable to handle.
But at these prices, Siglent could also have installed them. ;)
Mine came with 25 x M3 bolts and nuts for legs with the threaded shank as the foot.
This you can do at home or when you build a protoype for lab testing - But when selling it commercial and for not less money, it´s looking very unprofessional.Me too.QuoteMine came with 25 x M3 bolts and nuts for legs with the threaded shank as the foot.
Mine too, guess how I was suprised when open the box for the first time...Are they serious ?! was my first thought. ;)
I'm considering purchasing the SDS2104X HD. Does the (apparent) limited rate of capture for digital signals (the reported 16 wfms/sec) impact the scope's ability to do serial decoding? Will it keep up with common serial baudrates like 115200 baud for UART or 1M baud for CAN? These would require way more than 16 wfms/sec, but I'm not sure what to make of the reported limitation.
That is 16 separate trigger events.. Not sampling speed.
It means it can capture whole buffer of data on all 20 channels and show it on screen. 16 times a second.
If you have fast burst of 10 packets and then pause, you can set it to capture whole burst in one go.
I'm considering purchasing the SDS2104X HD. Does the (apparent) limited rate of capture for digital signals (the reported 16 wfms/sec) impact the scope's ability to do serial decoding? Will it keep up with common serial baudrates like 115200 baud for UART or 1M baud for CAN? These would require way more than 16 wfms/sec, but I'm not sure what to make of the reported limitation.
EDIT: After reading up on the waveform capture rate, I think that to reliably capture a telegram of data on any scope, the timebase should be set such that the entire telegram fits inside one horizontal sweep, because any scope will have a certain 'dead time' between sweeps and will therefore miss some of the bits that fall in between the end of the previous sweep and the beginning of the next one. Is this assumption correct, and should I therefore not worry too much about this issue pertaining to digital waveform capture speed?
If a gapless serial line capture/decoding is the main purpose, a dedicated logic analyzer would provide a much better service with less money.
I'm doing some tax harvesting for the end of the year and on the fence of upgrading to this unit. But after comparing with SDS2000X Plus, I'm just not sure I see the real advantage this has other than the additional 2 bits of vertical resolution. Most of the specs between the units look to be nearly identical. Am I missing something? What's the case for buying the HD and is it worth the extra $2k+ over the plus model?These are another level in cost for sure but they are also another level in design polish and capability.
I'm doing some tax harvesting for the end of the year and on the fence of upgrading to this unit. But after comparing with SDS2000X Plus, I'm just not sure I see the real advantage this has other than the additional 2 bits of vertical resolution. Most of the specs between the units look to be nearly identical. Am I missing something? What's the case for buying the HD and is it worth the extra $2k+ over the plus model?It is not just 2 bits. 12 - 8 = 4, so we get a 4 bits advantage of course. The SDS2000X HD is a 12 bit MSO, capable of 500 MHz bandwidth, whereas the SDS2000X Plus is 8 bit with an optional 10 bit ERES mode, which only gives a single bit of additional ENOB (in theory) while limiting the bandwidth to 100 MHz.
Additional points are better rotary encoders, better build quality in general and a dead silent fan.That too !
Just purchased a Siglent SDS2104X HD with the 200 MHz bandwidth promotion. My New Year's hope is that someone publishes a non-intrusive way to hack this scope :D
My New Year's hope is that someone publishes a non-intrusive way to hack this scope :D
Which currentprobe, same as last ? ;D
I recently upgraded from an SDS1104X-e to an SDS2104X HD.
Haven't put the 2104 HD to any serious use yet, but the FFT looks really nice.
Today I wanted to compare the waveforms on the 1104X-E with the 2104X HD.
The results are shocking to me (meaning how bad the 1104X-E is...), or am I doing something completely stupid.
Preconditions:
The signal generator is a cheap ebay ADF4351 based board at 35 MHz.
The 1104X-E is un-un-locked ;) i.e. 100 MHz bandwidth. 100 mV/div, full bandwidth.
Connected to the signal generator and shares the signal via a T piece.
The 2104X HD is upgraded to 200 MHz. 100 mV/div, full bandwidth, 50 ohms input.
I have previously checked the -3dB limit of the1104X-E and it is about 120 MHz, so I am excluding use error there.
The amount of detail on the 2104 HD compared to the 1104X-E is shocking to me, or am I doing something seriously wrong?
Any feedback is very welcome.
The HD is simply amazing for power electronics development, the traces out of it is straight up text-book worthy. I can understand why Martin wants to have the screenshots printed :-DD
Bonus points if you can guess the topology and rough specs of the DUT. ;D
It is some kind of flyback, is it not? A step up?
Has anyone ever done a comparison of the two oscilloscopes on sensitive measurements so that I can decide ?
Apart from the 12 bit ADC, is there any other discipline where HD is superior to X Plus ?
Apart from the 12 bit ADC, is there any other discipline where HD is superior to X Plus ?
4 Mathchannels, 5 GSa/s, hdmi output, fast bode plot, generally faster in everything....wait a minute. ;)
(just kidding)
Yeah saw that on YT and he don't have both set the same. ::)4 Mathchannels, 5 GSa/s, hdmi output, fast bode plot, generally faster in everything....wait a minute. ;)
(just kidding)
LA function is much slower with HD model, just in case ...
Yeah saw that on YT and he don't have both set the same. ::)4 Mathchannels, 5 GSa/s, hdmi output, fast bode plot, generally faster in everything....wait a minute. ;)
(just kidding)
LA function is much slower with HD model, just in case ...
Like comparing Granny Smith with a sweet eating apple. |O
I can easy see one in the video so gawd knows how many more differences in the setup there are.Yeah saw that on YT and he don't have both set the same. ::)4 Mathchannels, 5 GSa/s, hdmi output, fast bode plot, generally faster in everything....wait a minute. ;)
(just kidding)
LA function is much slower with HD model, just in case ...
Like comparing Granny Smith with a sweet eating apple. |O
Which specific settings is killing HD's LA performance ?
Difference in speed is embarrassing to say the least.
I can easy see one in the video so gawd knows how many more differences in the setup there are.Yeah saw that on YT and he don't have both set the same. ::)4 Mathchannels, 5 GSa/s, hdmi output, fast bode plot, generally faster in everything....wait a minute. ;)
(just kidding)
LA function is much slower with HD model, just in case ...
Like comparing Granny Smith with a sweet eating apple. |O
Which specific settings is killing HD's LA performance ?
Difference in speed is embarrassing to say the least.
You'd think anyone that undertook to do a comparison would at least take the time to Default each unit and set them up identically however not doing so gives them zero credibility IMO and less now that I challenged them and they haven't even bothered to reply.
So for now I call BS on that video until someone that knows what they're really doing replicates it. :bullshit:
Surely not 16wfms/s...
Yeah I get 16wfms/s too.
Well in that mode it handles double the data and data is routed slightly differently.. It has to be in Slow mode, because it has to capture buffer and process all of it before going to next one. It cannot just do bursts like in Fast mode.
Martin, you can check without probes, enable digital channels, and connect 100KHz (or more) signal to CH1 and trigger on that..
@TopQuark, sorry, what FW are you running..
First look at one today, an order for a customer arrived in a new shipment.
Of course it must be PD checked, FW updated, clock set to local time and the probes compensated !
Derived as the big 12 bit brother to SDS2000X Plus first impressions are it is small....and quiet, really very quiet !
Trace is quite fine almost like a good CRO but not lots finer than SDS2104X Plus in 10 Bit mode.
There's a few noticeable differences in design to 2kX Plus, smaller I have mentioned and narrower, taller and deeper is HD.
Assorted SDS2kX Plus vs HD comparison pics for your pleasure attached, 10 bit vs 12 bit.
Sales promo for both runs until years end.
So for now I call BS on that video until someone that knows what they're really doing replicates it. :bullshit:
I can easy see one in the video so gawd knows how many more differences in the setup there are.Yeah saw that on YT and he don't have both set the same. ::)4 Mathchannels, 5 GSa/s, hdmi output, fast bode plot, generally faster in everything....wait a minute. ;)
(just kidding)
LA function is much slower with HD model, just in case ...
Like comparing Granny Smith with a sweet eating apple. |O
Which specific settings is killing HD's LA performance ?
Difference in speed is embarrassing to say the least.
You'd think anyone that undertook to do a comparison would at least take the time to Default each unit and set them up identically however not doing so gives them zero credibility IMO and less now that I challenged them and they haven't even bothered to reply.
So for now I call BS on that video until someone that knows what they're really doing replicates it. :bullshit:
You are not providing an answer to my question, so i consider that video valid and if LA operation is a must i would stay away from HD series.
-snip
Don't get me wrong, users should know how scope behaves.. But, apart from feelgood "look ma, it's so fast" it is not much of a problem..
I don't know why 2000X HD cannot be put into "Fast" mode. Siglent should answer that.
Hi Martin, thank you.Brand new instrument ?
I did calibrate the scope twice. But the problem persists.
I'm not amused with this. But it seems to be a software problem which Siglent should be able to solve. Also average mode doesn't work on the "infected" channel.
Overdrive recovery of this scope is excellent by the way. It seems nobody mentioned this.Overdrive recovery is quite good. But what is class leading is DC offset range.
Measure* in Zoom mode no problem.
*) The settings makes me crazy, it´s not logical...
Please can you explain more about this.
this is much easier with lecroy
Is this scope hackable like the SDS2000X+ ?
Quote
this is much easier with lecroy
I really like the horizontal arrangement of the submenus.
Eight parameters, individually activatable.
And everything you can do with them is visible at a glance.
I would like to have this style for my Siglent as well, because it is simply very well thought out.
Current top model 6000A will cost about 12000 max and got the same UI as the 10 times cheaper sds2104X+.Then things are even worse.
QuoteCurrent top model 6000A will cost about 12000 max and got the same UI as the 10 times cheaper sds2104X+.Then things are even worse.
Anyway, 12kEuro for one Siglent, ridiculous!?!
Anyway, 12kEuro for one Siglent, ridiculous!?!
QuoteBecause 12k is serious money, and i can hardly imagine that a one professional company ( or one hobby enthusiast) would invest so much in Siglent (or Rigol).
Current top model 6000A will cost about 12000 max and got the same UI as the 10 times cheaper sds2104X+.
Then things are even worse.
Anyway, 12kEuro for one Siglent, ridiculous!?!
Why?
QuoteQuoteBecause 12k is serious money, and i can hardly imagine that a one professional company ( or one hobby enthusiast) would invest so much in Siglent (or Rigol).
Current top model 6000A will cost about 12000 max and got the same UI as the 10 times cheaper sds2104X+.
Then things are even worse.
Anyway, 12kEuro for one Siglent, ridiculous!?!
Why?
It's not enough just to build a good hardware and only if one can compare, then one would see what is the right professional equipement.
Don`t get me wrong, i have some Siglent (Rigol) stuff, but let's not deceive ourselves, that remains gear for amateurs.
And since we are back at the beginning - it seems that only the price is becoming more and more professional, the devices unfortunately not.
No prejudice at all.
I have had several times opportunity to play with real lab equipment, above all with LeCroy stuff.
I, as an electronic amateur, immediately noticed how superior these devices are, namely in every possible way, absolut no contest wit Siglent or Rigol.
A sobering realization for me, an “eye-opener”.
No prejudice at all.
And just to normalize the comparison ruler that you use, please tell us which LeCroy is the minimum you choose to beat this Siglent SDS2000X HD?
To "beat" the HD (and remaining 12bit) the HDO6000A would be my choice.
There was talk of a SDS6000A for 12k Euro, although SDS2354X HD for 5,5k Euro (and only 350MHz) is not a bargain.
QuoteTo "beat" the HD (and remaining 12bit) the HDO6000A would be my choice.
I fully agree with you :-+
We paid for the 350Mhz version (6034A) "only" 14000€ with a fat discount.. ;)And we haven't even seen SDS7000A yet !
From the work I know "professional scopes", in private I´ve got chinese ones only, since 2010.
Since 2015 only rigol or siglent.
I had thought the same as you, is quite nice and affordable, but against the "Pro" models can not do anything.
Sometimes it worked in parts, sometimes not at all.
But then Siglent came out with the 2000X plus series.
And I was so convinced of the series that three of them are now in daily use at work and another three will be ordered in a few weeks.
Siglent is already knocking more than loudly on the door to the upper class, I think I can judge that by the daily comparison.
And the 2000X HD is another step up, but mainly in terms of resolution and quality workmanship.
With the touch screen series from Siglent (SDS2K+, 2KHD, 5K, 6K) the times are over that you can say OK, for private use that's enough, but for "real" tasks it must be a Tek, Lecroy, R&S or Keysight.
And I have not yet spoken of Rigol, their latest models(because I don´t know them).
Time to wake up and save money.... ;)
But then Siglent came out with the 2000X plus series.Well, OK, maybe...
And I was so convinced of the series that three of them are now in daily use at work and another three will be ordered in a few weeks.
Time to wake up and save money.... ;)
Me I was "growing up" with lecroy.You overlook:
The new touchscreen scopes from siglent got more from lecroy than any other, it´s the result of their "partnership" I guess.
And we shouldn´t forget that (at least) two current lecroy models are made by siglent:
WS3000Z (https://de.rs-online.com/web/p/oszilloskope/1749985)
WS4000HD (https://de.rs-online.com/web/p/oszilloskope/1943325)
I´ve "overlooked" them because it´s too obviously... ;)To you and I, of course but as we know, not everyone is so observant. ;)
Me I was "growing up" with lecroy.You overlook:
The new touchscreen scopes from siglent got more from lecroy than any other, it´s the result of their "partnership" I guess.
And we shouldn´t forget that (at least) two current lecroy models are made by siglent:
WS3000Z (https://de.rs-online.com/web/p/oszilloskope/1749985)
WS4000HD (https://de.rs-online.com/web/p/oszilloskope/1943325)
T3DSO1000/1000A (SDS5000X)
T3DSO2000A (SDS2000X Plus)
T3DSO3000 (SDS1000X-E)
Source:
https://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/
I was and still interested in rather something like HDO6000 "12 bits all the time" and "2,5 GS/s all the time" :P
because I remember there was a kind of guidance about "improving" the scope but I was unable to find anything now
Another thing, concerning the formular editor:You cannot.
Is it possible to bind in measured values?
E.g. C1(rms)/C2(rms) ?
Directly I can´t see such possibility and if not, it would be nice to have it.
Another thing, concerning the formular editor:
Is it possible to bind in measured values?
E.g. C1(rms)/C2(rms) ?
Directly I can´t see such possibility and if not, it would be nice to have it.
Here the table with the wfms/s.
As mentioned before this can´t be the normal mode on the rigol.
Ultra and "Normal" are looking very similar, the blindtime between the packages are greater in the ultra mode.
Second part of my summary will following in the evening..
Martin
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-hdo1000-and-hdo4000-12bit-oscilloscopes-launched-in-china/?action=dlattach;attach=1724927;image)
In Sequence mode there is important to measure guaranteed maximum speed. This what matters.
In Sequence mode we need trust what is minimum trigger interval when not any single trigger event do not drop out! (reason is, imho, obvious)
With 50ns/div SDS200XHD is most fast.
Its guaranteed maximum speed is (my data) ~511,5 ksegment/s
How to test it. You need burst signal. (I have measured it using 80000 pulse burst and segments in oscilloscope sequence 80000. And other t/div / memory values using maximal amount of segments in sequence.
Set scope for 50ns/div, 1k memory length. No matter if dots or vectors and if interpolation is Sinc or x.
Set sequence for 80000 segments
Then without signal start oscilloscope Sequence (now it is waiting trigger)
Start burst. As long as it capture all 80000 signal signal speed is below sequence acquisition guaranteed max speed.
Set now busrt (example pulses, freq 568180kHz as is value in your table)
Somewhere before 80000 it stops acquisition (and waiting more pulses) because some pulses are dropped out , not captured.
Now drop this burst frequency until it can reliable capture every single pulse. Repeat it over ten times until you are sure it never drops any single pulse (segment).
I can say guaranteed maximum speed is 510 ksegment/s (perhaps tiny bit over but there need be some marginal if promise something)
Then about normal mode wfm/s speed. In your table it looks like there is peak value what exist inside acquisition cycle burst.
When we talk wfm/s speed we need handle it using average speed (this we can use example for propability calculations for glitch hunting etc)
SDS2000XHD maximum average wfm/s speed is 98kwfm/s (display mode dots, 50ns/div, single channel in use and trigger just basic edge)
Peak value inside acquisition burst is just bit over 108kwfm/s as is in your table. This is not wfm/s speed it is peak value.
I have measured average speed using HP53131A (with very accurate reference).
Here below is part from my old tests (it is still "preliminary" before full table ready and revised)
(https://siglent.fi/data/SDS2000XHD/SDS2000X-HD-wfm-partial-preliminary.png)Then yesterday and today I did some check about these my values and I did not find errors...(naturally values are bit rounded (down)) :
ETA: Later now after carefully look my collected data... there are some inexplicable exceptions what need further tests and with some different test method. Specially errors are in guaranteed max speed of sequence what is not displayed in this image.
During normal wfm/s test display looks this below.
(https://siglent.fi/data/SDS2000XHD/tstimg/wfm/mo/0-SDS2000XHD-dots-int-x-50nsdiv-Ch1-maxwfms.png)
Next image below. SDS2000X HD Trig out is connected to SDS2000X Plus. Here can see how it looks like.
Same trig out out signal what go to SDS2kX+ input is splitted and go to HP53131A input and there is used 3s gate time for get value what can see in my table.
(https://siglent.fi/data/SDS2000XHD/tstimg/wfm/mo/1-SDS2000XHD-trig-out-SDS2000Xplus-maxwfm-peakwfm-burst.png)
Using these kind of fast universal counters need use enough long gate time because signal is not continuous wfm. Also when test other wfm speed with other settings counter Auto trigger leveling may lead to very weird results >> manual level set.
I will not comment on Rigol's results. But the things said earlier about Siglent also raised some small doubts about the Rigol numbers.
@Martin72
What is your SDS2000X HD HW version?
Hi,With updated firmware I hope....and on company time too !
For next weekend, I can take home one of our siglent handhelds...
Should be enough for this task.
Hi,
For next weekend, I can take home one of our siglent handhelds...
Should be enough for this task.
Right now I have a slight suspicion that something is wrong ( :-[ and :-X ) deep inside the system.
Hi,
I´ll take a SDS1104X-E, it could stay here for weeks.. ;)QuoteRight now I have a slight suspicion that something is wrong ( :-[ and :-X ) deep inside the system.
Could what the user TopQuark discovered ( dramatic drop to 16wfms/s when Logic analyzer is active, compared to over 1000 wfms/s in the same situation with the SDS2104X+) also be related ?
I also wonder why only one firmware update has been released so far, 6 months ago.
Possibly a major debugging as a reason ?
I will add some pictures later to clarify the measurement method.
(https://siglent.fi/data/SDS2000XHD/tstimg/seqmgss/mo/SDS2000X-HD-sequence-speed-preliminary-02032023.png)
I will add some pictures later to clarify the measurement method.
because both are models series 2000X and somehow cousins.
I'll take the 1100 siglent home with me tomorrow or the day after
Oh that 1100, was expecting a SHS1102X. :palm:QuoteI'll take the 1100 siglent home with me tomorrow or the day after
Or today...Hello little brother. 8)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/?action=dlattach;attach=1734416;image)
was expecting a SHS1102X
you will be surprised of all the functionality it has in such a little box.
This was my first siglent. ;)It is now quite different since release, many new features have been added but you won't get all unless you update the OS and FW.
NEW PROMOTION
Purchase any SDS2000X HD model from 5/1/2023 through 10/31/2023 and get the Power Analysis Option for free.
($ 380 value)
Enquire at your dealer.
NEW PROMOTION
Purchase any SDS2000X HD model from 5/1/2023 through 10/31/2023 and get the Power Analysis Option for free.
($ 380 value)
Enquire at your dealer.
Doesn't seem very aggressive, in China they are offering one tier of BW upgrade and all options unlocked for any model.
Yes, it seems very unusual.
Reminds me of old bad times with my Rigol(one of the reasons I switched to siglent)....
However, we should not forget the following:
-"Back then" (with the 5000X, 2000X+) the software was still new and needed corrections accordingly, this was not necessary now with the HD.
-The errors are present, but so far there is none that severely restricts the use - Say it is not urgent.
-And let's be honest, with each new update we are actually only excited about what new features awaits us...
-We have been very spoiled by siglent in the past.
-And it may be that the update will be very extensive and therefore a long time passes.
-And finally they still have to do something with the SDS7000A and the 1000HD...
So anyway, my thought processes, if you are friendly to the matter(like I am). ;)
Yes, it seems very unusual.
Reminds me of old bad times with my Rigol(one of the reasons I switched to siglent)....
However, we should not forget the following:
-"Back then" (with the 5000X, 2000X+) the software was still new and needed corrections accordingly, this was not necessary now with the HD.
-The errors are present, but so far there is none that severely restricts the use - Say it is not urgent.
-And let's be honest, with each new update we are actually only excited about what new features awaits us...
-We have been very spoiled by siglent in the past.
-And it may be that the update will be very extensive and therefore a long time passes.
-And finally they still have to do something with the SDS7000A and the 1000HD...
So anyway, my thought processes, if you are friendly to the matter(like I am). ;)
yes yes yes, but i want digital filters on the 5000X
wasn't it hinted a while ago to come out for the whole line of scopes?
Hi,
He meant for his 5000X (wrong thread here ;)), currently the filters are for "our" HD and 6000A avaible.
I meant they were promised in the early days of the 5000X, so i expect them to provide the update to our not so old scope as well.
Maybe I missed it, but how can I manually divide the vertical axis by myself in the Bode Plot ?Vertical scaling is manually set in Configure > Display, screenshot attached.
I would have liked to change the resolution from 1dB/div. to 0.5dB/div. in that case.
Martin
RTFM...Again...But I didn’t !
Thanks Rob !
I will work more with the menus, I promise. ;)They just shouldn't be work but just common sense but first one has to adjust to thinking about what you need do and yes that can be challenging when deep in thought with what you are working on.
Hi!
Is there anyone who would be willing to PM me instructions to hack SDS2104X HD?
Thanks!
- For the scroll bar from the picture, that apears when the menu has more items than the screen can show, what would i do without the mouse? I mean also with the mouse you have to go with it off screen so you can greb the bar and reach the end of the menu.For the few long menus there are, use the mouse or your finger to drag the menu upwards to access the lower items.
- Is there a way of retrieving files out of it? i mean it has the webserver, but if i want to save a picture with a white background, i would have to save it on the internal memory and copy it via USB sitck?Typically quick save/prints are done to USB stick with the blue Save button at top left of the instrument panel.
- in FFT mode would have been great if it would calculate THD. even the cheapest picoscope does it.
Yes, the PA came with it. Now i need to get current probes.........
That is true, you might end up paying more for the probes than the scope.Always, if you are to be properly equipped. ;)
PA is a fine thing on paper, I have thought problems to build "antennas" in the circuit, so that I can measure current with a current clamp at all.
- Is there a way of retrieving files out of it? i mean it has the webserver, but if i want to save a picture with a white background, i would have to save it on the internal memory and copy it via USB sitck? if this is the case this is kinda so 2001.
- Is there a way of retrieving files out of it? i mean it has the webserver, but if i want to save a picture with a white background, i would have to save it on the internal memory and copy it via USB sitck? if this is the case this is kinda so 2001.
If you have scope connected over LAN you can mount any folder accessible through LAN and save directly there.
The full suite of PA measurements require passive, differential and current probes.PA is a fine thing on paper, I have thought problems to build "antennas" in the circuit, so that I can measure current with a current clamp at all.
Good point, I have absolutely no experience in this kind of measurements and have no idea whether this measurement scenario shown in the Siglent brochure is realistic. They are taking the current measurements on the external wiring of the power supply. Well, anyway I think at least its a good idea to own a differential probe for measurements on equipment powered by switched power supplies.
Each measurement type requires specified connections clearly outlined in the Connection Guide in the PA menus.
I really would like to get one of these hard shell cases which Siglent NA is selling. I wonder why its not available in Europe.
I am trying to figure out what current probes to get without becoming broke :The 2 are not related.
First option it's better for lower currents with a lower bandwidth:
What do you guys think ?
So they didn't make 2CH versions of the sds200x HD's ?
needs would be for both....Type of use, not spec.
What do you guys think ?
So they didn't make 2CH versions of the sds200x HD's ?
Which of course has only sufficient sampling for 350 MHz for a 500 MHz product range.So they didn't make 2CH versions of the sds200x HD's ?
Is that really what you are looking for? Just one ADC with 1GSa/s when using both channels?
I do not see any firmware updates since last September.
I am trying to figure out what current probes to get without becoming broke :
Where is the 3dB cutoff?
True, but many also perform quite ok well beyond their specification, with degraded levels, and can serve in a pinch. It got me curious about this one.With X Plus models -3dB is often well above stated BW with 500 MHz models near 600 MHz.
Afaik you can determine the bandwith without having a signal source going so far.Have 3.2 GHz RF gen. ;)
No, not the bodnar pulser (risetime), it was something else...with FFT...Can´t remember... :P
How usable is the HD above 350 MHz? Where is the 3dB cutoff? 6dB? Near 500MHz? I didn't see any review trying to use it at the limits.In full channel mode the sample rate is limited to 1 GSa/s, therefore the absolute limit is about 440 MHz in sin(x)/x vector display mode, because of Nyquist and the limited (yet stunning) reconstruction capabilities of modern sampling systems. In dots display mode we can push it a little higher, but 500 MHz still marks the absolute limit, where we cannot get any meaningful signal representation anymore.
Why Pk-Pk value is 1,97 mV, while input is 300 mV@1MHz ?
What I am missing?
(Attachment Link)
Why Pk-Pk value is 1,97 mV, while input is 300 mV@1MHz ?
What I am missing?
(Attachment Link)
Why Pk-Pk value is 1,97 mV, while input is 300 mV@1MHz ?
What I am missing?
(Attachment Link)
You are missing how it works.
As @2N3055 well explained it is statistics. Measurement value is Amp. It do not measure here anything else but Amp.
All other values are statistics from this repeated Amp measurements. In this case Amp is measured 236 times. And statistics are (in this case) calculated from these 236 values.
If there is one time measured 301mV Amp and one time 299mV Amp and all other measured values are between these two values then there read Pk-Pk 2.0mV.
I am the proud owner of a SDS2104X HD, so i guess i could be accepted in the 'owners club'. I must say this a big game changer compared to the Rigol DS1054Z which i have used for the past 7-8 years maybe, and will keep me busy for the next months, got a lot of RTFMing to do.
It only took a day to arrive.
Thanks a lot Martin72 for the welectron tip, i will be using it in the future for sure.
Now i would have to kindly ask for a PM with the info about the unlocking.
(Attachment Link)
If I was tossing up between HD and the SDS2000X plus series, what are the key use-cases where the 12-bit resolution is essential? Buying the Plus seems a no-brainer price-wise but double the price for HD takes a bit more consideration, but I can see the advantage of perhaps not buying another scope for 10 years unless it breaks. Is 12-bit becoming the new 8-bit or will it remain niche for many many years still?8 bits have been sufficient for the majority of tasks in the past and I don't think this will change anytime soon – rather the opposite.
Mine has been on order for a week. I am waiting for my reseller to get it in. :scared: :popcorn:
Mine has been on order for a week. I am waiting for my reseller to get it in. :scared: :popcorn:
It shipped! :box:
Negatives:
1. I don't understand why there are so many scratches on the screen. If they were caused during delivery, why does the center area also have scratches? It shouldn't be like this.
2. The knobs turn loosely and wobble. Another 9-month-old SDS2074X plus of my company is even more secure. I don't know if I'm too picky.
3. I don't know if the soft-plastic knobs have any problem of getting sticky. My 54622D's knobs became sticky with aging.
Wishes:
1. Now I feel that 4 math channels are also needed.
2. Logarithmic frequency scale of FFT is important for this kind of high-resolution spectrum. It helps to investigate low frequency details.
3. Quick Action Key could be designed to pop up a panel (or window) with multiple soft keys to choose from.
4. Customizable functions for Auto, Default and Touch keys. I rarely use them personally. If they could be changed to other shortcut keys, that would be very convenient.
My HD has arrived. But I'm a bit disappointed that its screen (protector) has a lot of scratches on it. Here is my first impression and opinion below:
Negatives:
1. I don't understand why there are so many scratches on the screen. If they were caused during delivery, why does the center area also have scratches? It shouldn't be like this.
By the way, I'm thinking about getting a screen protector. Do you use one on your oscilloscope?
In addition to the 12-bit and deep-memory advantages, having four 500MHz probes and the hardware ERES/Average mode makes it worth the price.
Interesting!So what's the problem?
Interesting!So what's the problem?
Your scope has 50 µV AC-RMS at 50 Ohms compared to 56 µV at 1 MOhm.
The full bandwidth devices of the other users have a bit higher noise, but again it's e.g. 83 µv at 50 Ohms and 88 µV at 1 MOhm, so it's lower in 50 Ohms mode.
All the difference comes from low frequencies anyway, because at higher frequencies the 1 MOhm input becomes low impedance as well (because of its input capacitance), so there is no significant difference to the 50 Ohms mode anymore.
Interesting!So what's the problem?
Your scope has 50 µV AC-RMS at 50 Ohms compared to 56 µV at 1 MOhm.
The full bandwidth devices of the other users have a bit higher noise, but again it's e.g. 83 µv at 50 Ohms and 88 µV at 1 MOhm, so it's lower in 50 Ohms mode.
All the difference comes from low frequencies anyway, because at higher frequencies the 1 MOhm input becomes low impedance as well (because of its input capacitance), so there is no significant difference to the 50 Ohms mode anymore.
Hi Performa01,
I thought the noise level at 50 Ohm termination would always be lower than at 1M-Ohm. However, I realized my mistake; my tests were DC coupled, while Martin72 and Kladit's tests were AC coupled.
In fact, I believe the DC offset affects the RMS calculation. I just calibrated my HD and retested it.
There's so much to learn, and I was just curious about the phenomenon. Previous pictures will be taken off preventing misleading.
I thought the noise level at 50 Ohm termination would always be lower than at 1M-Ohm.
I thought the noise level at 50 Ohm termination would always be lower than at 1M-Ohm.
50-Ohm termination is there to avoid reflections in the wires, nothing to do with noise.
I thought the noise level at 50 Ohm termination would always be lower than at 1M-Ohm.
50-Ohm termination is there to avoid reflections in the wires, nothing to do with noise.
You might want to rethink this statement.... just saying, politely...
I thought the noise level at 50 Ohm termination would always be lower than at 1M-Ohm.
50-Ohm termination is there to avoid reflections in the wires, nothing to do with noise.
You might want to rethink this statement.... just saying, politely...
I guess it depends on how you define "noise", but the idea behind 50-Ohm termination, it's reason for existing, is to do with signal integrity, not noise per se. Any measured changes above will be incidental, not by design.
Ok so more directly: what is thermal noise (Johnson Nyquist noise) ?
I thought the noise level at 50 Ohm termination would always be lower than at 1M-Ohm.
50-Ohm termination is there to avoid reflections in the wires, nothing to do with noise.
You might want to rethink this statement.... just saying, politely...
I guess it depends on how you define "noise", but the idea behind 50-Ohm termination, it's reason for existing, is to do with signal integrity, not noise per se. Any measured changes above will be incidental, not by design.
Ok so more directly: what is thermal noise (Johnson Nyquist noise) ?
It will be worth the wait... ;)
Firmware update:
Every current model has already received one this year, I'm curious when "we" are on it. 8)
Arrived today, looks and feels very valuable.
That should also be the case for the price.
Arrived today, looks and feels very valuable.
That should also be the case for the price.
Same here.
When I went to a hardware exhibition, a salesperson of a certain company said "Even though the products of Chinese makers and ours are the same 12-bit, they cannot be compared, especially in terms of noise floor."I doubt that it has been a sales person from LeCroy, because otherwise we'd have to ask them if they've ever heard of the LeCroy WaveSurfer 4000 HD and what they think what this is and where it comes from.
However, looking at the catalog, the noise floor of Siglent (SDS2000X HD) does not seem to be higher than that of Tektronix or LeCroy.
Should I trust the catalog?
so the 50 Ohms are mostly isolated by the 100 nF capacitor.
The vertical sensitivity is 1 mV/div just like the LeCroy example,
Does the HD model work with Siglent's EasyScope software? I don't see it mentioned.Should do, 1000X HD does however the inbuilt webrowser is somewhat more powerful for all these models.
This screenshot also demonstrates how to work around any problems coming from the axis labes interfering with markers at the very left of the screen. It's easy: just start at one division later
And, what did the performance ? Did it still react ? :DI have not specifically payed attention to responsiveness, and I'm sure it slows down a little, but I can state for sure that there has never been a moment where I thought the instrument was sluggish.
But the thing is, Siglent is more serious about their quality in many aspects. That's why I chose their products.
My top wishes include improving the Bode plot speed and adding a logarithmic scale to the FFT frequency axis.Well, Bode Plot speed improvements are difficult if good results are expected, especially at lower frequencies, such as the audio range. But I might start a discussion at Siglent eventually, how we could maybe create a "quick and dirty" operating mode that sacrifices cleanliness and accuracy for speed...
While we are waiting for a firmware update for over a year now, Siglent is busy in creating new models. After the low end SDS1000 HD, the SDS 3000 HD is about to come....
Bandwidth 350Mhz/500Mhz/1Ghz
4GS/s Sampling rate
12 bit
If this were available, it would be my next scope. ;)
But I'm afraid it won't be. :(
Either way, it should get its own thread.
My top wishes include improving the Bode plot speed and adding a logarithmic scale to the FFT frequency axis.Well, Bode Plot speed improvements are difficult if good results are expected, especially at lower frequencies, such as the audio range. But I might start a discussion at Siglent eventually, how we could maybe create a "quick and dirty" operating mode that sacrifices cleanliness and accuracy for speed...
Regarding the FFT, do you mean something like this (reply #46)? ;)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg7000a-350-500-mhz-and-1-ghz-awgs-coming/msg5073394/#msg5073394 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg7000a-350-500-mhz-and-1-ghz-awgs-coming/msg5073394/#msg5073394)
One thing that Siglent does is that they develop platform... That means that as new models come out, and new stuff is developed,some stuff propagates to other models that came before.
SDS2000X HD will get new FW with many features that will expand it's capabilities. As Performa01 said, beta that has 4 math channels and other things has been aground for months now. Yes there is work on new models (and that is nothing new) and when beta test specimens are available we will see what they are and the rest of the data. In meantime there is log frequency plot in FFT being tested on SDS6000 platform... That will probably trickle down too..
I'm not privy to internal strategical decision process in Siglent, but they have internal rules to NOT release something if it is not working well to the extent that internal testing and beta test team can test realistically. And I grew to respect their attitude in this regard.
That does not mean they are slow to develop. Record is 4 hours for a beta FW respin after I had a comment...
It is just as you develop many things and platform becomes behemoth of features, regression testing after integration takes time...
And they still keep adding new stuff.
One thing that Siglent does is that they develop platform... That means that as new models come out, and new stuff is developed,some stuff propagates to other models that came before.
SDS2000X HD will get new FW with many features that will expand it's capabilities. As Performa01 said, beta that has 4 math channels and other things has been aground for months now. Yes there is work on new models (and that is nothing new) and when beta test specimens are available we will see what they are and the rest of the data. In meantime there is log frequency plot in FFT being tested on SDS6000 platform... That will probably trickle down too..
I'm not privy to internal strategical decision process in Siglent, but they have internal rules to NOT release something if it is not working well to the extent that internal testing and beta test team can test realistically. And I grew to respect their attitude in this regard.
That does not mean they are slow to develop. Record is 4 hours for a beta FW respin after I had a comment...
It is just as you develop many things and platform becomes behemoth of features, regression testing after integration takes time...
And they still keep adding new stuff.
I wonder what the marketing of this "High Resolution" platform will be. Its strange that they are coming in different design. Some are grey (2000X HD/6000 HD pro) the others 1000X/3000X HD are in black. Also the top model 7000A. I would not be surprised when the scopes in black design are for the chinese market only.
I'm totally fine with my SDS2000X HD as it is right now, nothing to complain about. My comment on the new SDS 3000X HD was more a surprise than criticism.
You'll be happy to wait for the update...
I said yes, siglent will have its reasons why it is so "delayed" and reasons like this make me happy. ;)
ThanksYou'll be happy to wait for the update...
I said yes, siglent will have its reasons why it is so "delayed" and reasons like this make me happy. ;)
Firmware V1.2.2.5 is available - enjoy your 4 math traces :)
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS2000X_HD_V1.2.2.5_EN.zip
Hi,
I have loaded the latest Firmware into my SDS2000 HD.
That took me some sweating....
Twice the scope seemed to hang during Booting after the Firmware update.
It would be nice of Siglent if they would indicate that extra long Boot process after the Firmware update in the accompanying Firmware revision PDF..........
Twice the scope seemed to hang during Booting after the Firmware update.
How long did it take to complete those 8192 averages? I found most scopes do averaging slow or with unreliable rate.I'll be able to provide exact numbers when the next beta FW is available, because then we can time it precisely. I don't feel that it takes several minutes, but we'll see.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/scope-with-fast-waveform-averaging/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/scope-with-fast-waveform-averaging/)
How long did it take to complete those 8192 averages? I found most scopes do averaging slow or with unreliable rate.I'll be able to provide exact numbers when the next beta FW is available, because then we can time it precisely. I don't feel that it takes several minutes, but we'll see.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/scope-with-fast-waveform-averaging/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/scope-with-fast-waveform-averaging/)
In the thread that you've linked there are already the results for 1024 averaging (a couple of % amplitude drop). For 50% amplitude drop we can have about 4000 averages.
oops, I didn't know that yet...It can be useful in that warm up period. ;)
No, quick cal is "off".
I'll be able to provide exact numbers when the next beta FW is available, because then we can time it precisely. I don't feel that it takes several minutes, but we'll see.
Phenomen is gone.. ;)
But as I said, the last calibration was not long ago, after the firmware upgrade.
Quick cal....should I enable it....the manual says it interrupts the acquisition at that moment - but it also says this procedure is executed whenever the vertical scale is changed or interleave changes, whether the function is on or off.
And nothing else I had done earlier, when I had switched from 1mV/div to 1V/div.
So it had no effect.
OK, I've been reading this thread for a while. The scope looks great, but I really don't understand the market placement of it.SDS2104X Plus development led the HD by quite a margin and HD offers better memory management features and a redesigned and more compact form factor.
The SDS 2104 Plus is 1450 EUR where I live, the smallest SDS 2104 HD is 3200 EUR. The package and screen looks better, but for all intends and purposes, it looks like the same scope with 12 bit instead of 8. For sure, that extra 4 bit, some of it is noise, is not going to be worth twice the price. Or let's go the other way, the SDS 5000 is practically the same price, that goes to a GHz. What am I missing? Especially, since I have to assume, using their own ASIC must be cheaper than an IC from someone else. So why isn't the 12 bit resolution a license option?
OK, I've been reading this thread for a while. The scope looks great, but I really don't understand the market placement of it.
The SDS 2104 Plus is 1450 EUR where I live, the smallest SDS 2104 HD is 3200 EUR. The package and screen looks better, but for all intends and purposes, it looks like the same scope with 12 bit instead of 8. For sure, that extra 4 bit, some of it is noise, is not going to be worth twice the price. Or let's go the other way, the SDS 5000 is practically the same price, that goes to a GHz. What am I missing? Especially, since I have to assume, using their own ASIC must be cheaper than an IC from someone else. So why isn't the 12 bit resolution a license option?
Yes, at first glance you could come to this conclusion - I thought so too.I don't know. My daily driver at work is a MSOX3104, I use the math on that (excluding the FFT) maybe once a year. I've been looking for a scope at home in the 1-2KEUR range. What's even the ERES, is it like the high res mode? The way I understand it the MSOX does "everything" in hardware, and I have to think about the limitations that I don't even realize that would come up.
But let's start with the outward appearance.
The workmanship is even more solid, the incremental encoders have been significantly improved and the internal shielding and construction is more elaborate.
Then we go one level deeper, the board.
The 12-bit converters are not exactly the cheapest, one for each of two channels.
Then the fan is PWM-controlled, the memory remains at 200/100Mpts (2/4ch), while with the SDS2k+ the memory is halved when the 10bit mode is used.
In addition to the 12bit native resolution, there are +3bit Eres, by the way, the hardware itself is more performant, Eres and Averaging are no longer math functions.
More trigger functions (delay, nth-edge, qualified), four mathchannels, four memorychannels, digital filters, memory management, etc, etc...
It's simply a higher class and that's why it costs a bit more.
That doesn't make the SDS2000+plus any worse, I still think it's one of the best affordable scopes, but for the higher price of the HD you get more and that's the point.
When I switched from the SDS2k+ to the HD, I was initially only fascinated by the 12 bit, the rest seemed the same to me.
But little by little I discovered the advantages that are there, which is no wonder, they both have the same UI, so you don't quickly realize that they are different.
SDS2104X Plus development led the HD by quite a margin and HD offers better memory management features and a redesigned and more compact form factor.Oh yes, that. I keep forgetting the logic probe is an expensive option that places the scope even more outside my budget. Keep in mind in EU the taxes are 20% or more, so those numbers look good, but we write bigger numbers for a reason.
All HD models have had a recent price reduction and also offer an attractive option bundle with a new scope purchase.
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/)
What's even the ERES, is it like the high res mode?
Posting here is only allowed for member of the 12 bit club or people seriously considering becoming a member.:-DD
I bought one of those because of the very large voltage offset range and the excellent overdrive recovery which is pretty bad on more expensive Tektronix, R&S RTM RTB and Keysight scopes.
The extra bits and access to the 12 bit club came as a bonus. One must not forget the excellent aluminum handle which some have found the most important aspect of this machine. The handle can also be used to upgrade your refrigerator if it didn't came with a descent door handle. It's that descent and comparable or better to 365 material from the blue and yellow shops.
I've attached the STL file
404 Attachment not found...
Connecting the Trigger Out to an input and letting the scope's dedicated counter count these pulses
Or could it be that the zone trigger slows things down so much?
Is there a dedicated "Manchester trigger" you could use alternatively?
QuoteOr could it be that the zone trigger slows things down so much?
No, I don't think so. I'm getting more or less the same trigger output regardless. I'll look at the acquisition mode.QuoteIs there a dedicated "Manchester trigger" you could use alternatively?
The scope has Manchester encoding, and I have this option enabled. However, I haven't been able to get it to decode. It involves a lot more setup (bps, header size, word size, etc.) compared to protocols such as I2S, I2C, and UART.
You can always use Segmented mode, it skips processing and assures minimum retrigger time...
You can always use Segmented mode, it skips processing and assures minimum retrigger time...
You were faster, as usual 😉
If we want to measure trigger rates, we need to ensure the DSO to be as fast as possible. So the first measure is to select a timebase, where we get about 1 kpts record length (i.e. approximately the screen width). Then we start a sequence recording with maximum segments – when done, we enter History mode.
Thanks for walking us through this, Performa01. With a view to the SDS2104X+ which I just ordered as my Christmas present, I would like to better understand the acquisition modes and their limitations.
It's clear that Sequence mode gives the fastest trigger re-arming, because no data processing and display happens during the acquisition. But is there a way to estimate the waveform update rates which can be obtained without Sequence mode? E.g. in hansibull's present application, if we also select 1 kPts per capture, and of course switch off any math or decoders -- should the scope be able to keep up with the 48 kHz packet rate?
Is there a fixed time overhead for rendering one capture on the display, or an overhead time per acquired point, which could be used to quantitatively estimate the update rate? Beyond serving the display, do any additional overhead times need to be considered (in non-sequenced mode)?
I know RF-loop did publish comprehensive measurements of SDS1104X-E. I don't seem to remember if there was such table for 2000X+ published. I don't have the scope so cannot measure it myself.
It's clear that Sequence mode gives the fastest trigger re-arming, because no data processing and display happens during the acquisition. But is there a way to estimate the waveform update rates which can be obtained without Sequence mode? E.g. in hansibull's present application, if we also select 1 kPts per capture, and of course switch off any math or decoders -- should the scope be able to keep up with the 48 kHz packet rate?It depends on so many things, I’m not aware of any formula to estimate the maximum trigger rate. There are only rules of thumb.
Is there a fixed time overhead for rendering one capture on the display, or an overhead time per acquired point, which could be used to quantitatively estimate the update rate? Beyond serving the display, do any additional overhead times need to be considered (in non-sequenced mode)?The trigger re-arming is constant and fast for the simple edge trigger, at about 2 µs. For more advanced triggers and all the more so for Zone trigger, there is additional overhead from the complex trigger handling.
What's up with the non-monotonous time depency in normal mode, at the fast timebase settings? I would have expected things to get monotonously slower as the time base is slowed down and more data points per capture have to be processed. Is is understood what is driving the observed waveform capture rates, with maxima at 5 ns/div and 50 ns/div?I hope my explanations above give you an idea already. The sudden need for counters above 50 ns/dev to manage intensity grading alone should explain a lot…
A possibly stupid question: What does Sinc interpolation in dot mode mean or do? Your data show that it affects the acquisition rate massively at the fast time bases. I would have expected that Sinc interpolation only comes into play in line mode?!Sinc reconstruction as well as X-interpolation do nothing with regard to screen rendering in dots mode, but Sinc is still required for determining the exact trigger point. So this is some additional processing time at fast time bases.
The fact that all modes (dots vs. lines, Sinc vs. linear) get the same performance for the slower time bases, from 500 ns/div upwards, is probably due to the fact that the scope decides not to do any interpolation, since the dot density is high enough anyway?The answer should be obvious now: mostly yes! ;)
did you notice that this one is for the SDS2000X HD exclusively?
Now that the impedance mismatch is fixed, the trace looks very smooth but also reveals that my early production sample of the SDS2000X HD doesn’t perform equally well as what Martin72 has shown. The -3dB bandwidth has dropped down to 563 MHz on my instrument and the flatness up to 420 MHz has not been nearly as good from the outset.
And you are sure the difference isn't created by you taking the "fast track" in relation to the long method used by Martin?Yes, absolutely sure. Even for a traditional swept spectrum analyzer, the required total sweep time for accurate amplitude measurements would be less than 4 milliseconds.
Or the gen quality?That’s a valid question. Apart from the better matching because of the attenuator, I also had to raise the output level to +10 dBm. So maybe the output level accuracy suffers at the higher level, or has different flatness?
I’ve grabbed the first random cable, which looked trustworthy – but a closer look now revealed that it’s just crappy RG58 C/U. So right now I’ve repeated that test with a proper Hyperflex 5 low loss cable, this time with SMA connectors and BNC adapters
I think once that's rectified, your -3 dB bandwidth will be significantly closer to mine
This is the problem, for whatever reason the generator is doing this(I will deal with this later).
Can you check with an SA?
Here my contribution to the theme:Even though it doesn't matter in this particular case, you should never, ever under no circumstances use Peak Detect acquisition mode as the source for an FFT.
I had measured the amplitude with 0dBm set on the generator, at 1Mhz it is higher, at 6Mhz it is correct.Here too: even though it doesn't matter in this particular case, always use "cycle stdev" for amplitude measurements, to get accurate results even when there is a small DC offset and/or the number of periods is not an integer fraction of the screen width.
Hi,The public one, no.
Can SDS2000X HD be hacked to 500MHz using keygen?
That was nothing... ;)Well yes, it lets you display a 1 GHz wide FFT even in full channel mode, when the Sample rate has droped to 1 GSa/s, but certainly not any further and then again this tiny glitch can be even welcome at times.
With a little thought I could have figured it out beforehand instead of wondering a few minutes ago why the FFT graph abruptly stops at 500Mhz.
The only thing I would wish for morons like me would be a limitation of the adjustable horizontal spectrum as soon as the 350Mhz limit is active.
And then I wanted to save the curve and overlay it with the next recorded one.
I wanted to use the new memory function (M1...M4) for this, but that didn't work or I don't think I understood this function properly, because there are many parameters to set and I actually just wanted to save the curve and call it up again.
I then used the normal REF function for this. ;)
16 times average is enough to get the waveform pretty clean even in run mode – and that without any speed penalty. The implicit resolution enhancement of this measure is 4 bits, so that the DSO is effectively working with 16 bit data now.Hello,
Mathematically perhaps. But resolution has to do with noise (= power).
So you need to have a factor 4 to average to gain one bit resolution.
4 Bits resolution enhancement (signal to noise ratio) equal to a average of 256 waveforms.
I'm afraid you lost me at the "noise = power" bit. As we are measuring voltages, why would resolution not depend on voltage noise? Could you explain a bit further please?
the sqrt(N) behaviour of the voltage noise is more intuitive to me, since that's how the standard deviation of a set of N samples behaves.
I am now the proud owner of an SDS2104X HD and would like to join the club.Have you tried using Fixed Memory mode in the Acquisition menu ?
I tried the LPF filter Math function on a single shot capture and it seems to me it needs some sort of decimate option. If you have a single capture and need to try an out of range filter you can't change your time base like you would in continuous mode.
Looks like it was misinterpreted :)
It was not a « negative » ultimatum, simply that my project is moving slowly due to not very adequate equipment and I am looking to improve that as soon as I can. The hobby-priced options are kind of limited to Siglent or Rigol, and I am trying to find the best option that fits my budget and my needs.
I have the feeling that the upcoming SDS1000X HD would bring very little compared to my current Pico scope, hence the interest in SDS2000X HD.
I noticed in the AWG System Info screen that there is away to upgrade firmware for inbuilt SAG1021 AWG there. I am currently on version 1.11 (I just upgraded the scope firmware to latest using the normal procedure), does this need to be upgraded separately or is it covered by the scope firmware?This would be a separate update for the SDS2000X HD, yet I can remember only one small update soon after the introduction of the SAG1021, when the SDS1004X-E still was the only device that could control it. The SAG1021 isn't very complex, consequently there are no bugs to fix and quite obviously Siglent don't plan to add further functionality, as anyone who is serious about using an AWG will have an external standalone device anyway.
I've been an R&S RTB2004 user for several years but decided to buy an SDS2000X HD to use as a secondary scope.
I liked it better than the RTB2004, so the Siglent is now the main scope. And after 3D printing that VESA mount for it, it's such a convenient instrument!
However, one thing I haven't figured out is the UART bus table.
I do a lot of half-duplex RS485 decoding, and with the RTB2004 it would display each "frame" (burst of characters) on a single line in the table. The Siglent on the other hand, just places each character on a new line in the table, and I end up having to fiddle a lot to compare two received "frames".
Is there a way to have the bus table look like the RTB2004 that grouts the received data in "frames" rather than filling a list I have to scroll through?
I would also like to have the "frames" for the other decoders.
As far as I can remember, it's only available for I²C, but this endless scrolling with the other decoders is quite annoying.
Oh yes, and maybe rework the display optically, e.g. like the new rigol with gray/white and black letters.
That would be a nice feature.
I would rather take LeCroy
I´ve meant the visibility, for my old eyes it´s better... ;)QuoteI would rather take LeCroy
If Siglent looked like our Waverunner, I would party all night long... 8)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/?action=dlattach;attach=1977366;image)
Yeah bothers me too..
I reported it to Siglent. We will see what future brings...
Yeah bothers me too..
I reported it to Siglent. We will see what future brings...
To where can I report/request this? there are very good reasons why it would be possible to show the data as "frames" or "packs", where the minimum time between frames can be specified.
This makes the RTB2000 way more convenient for UART decoding than the Siglent. And I really want the Siglent to be the better one.
BTW does the Rigol DHO800/900/1000/4000 have support for frames when decoding UART?
Not to start a heated debate, I'm just curious if they have a solution to this.
Hi,
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho804-test-and-compare-thread/msg5109750/#msg5109750 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho804-test-and-compare-thread/msg5109750/#msg5109750)
Martin
Like I said, I reported it to Siglent. With all the explanations. We'll see what comes out of it.
And no Rigols don't have that either. Nor does very expensive and beloved Keysight on any of Megazoom scopes (1000/2000/3000/4000/6000)..
I sent a descriptive email with screenshots to [sales a siglent . com] so let's hope they get how useful this is when doing UART decoding.
Has anyone reverse engineered the schematic for the Siglent deskew fixture?Best advice is to follow developments in this thread:
I wouldn't mind having a go at replicating it.
I saw the thread elsewhere on the forum, but I would like a more close representation, plus I'm interested in seeing the Siglent design.
The Batronix board is on the way so more measurements and learning are ahead.
So, I've seen a lot of discussion and comparison between the SDS2000X-HD and the SDS2000X Plus series, but how does the 2000X-HD compare to the 5000 series? I'm currently in the market for a new scope for work, and I'm trying to decide between the SDS2354X-HD and the SDS5034X.
Things I'm a bit unsure of are: what's the resolution of the ADC on the 5000 series; is there a worthwhile benefit for the 12 bit ADC compared to having 5GSa/s over the 2354X-HD's 2GSa/s? The external arb is kind of a letdown on the 5000 series, but I'm not sure how often I'd be using it anyway.
Currently the 5034X is $3690 US and the 2354X-HD is $4145. Is there something besides the ADC that I'm missing here which would justify the cost?
So, I've seen a lot of discussion and comparison between the SDS2000X-HD and the SDS2000X Plus series, but how does the 2000X-HD compare to the 5000 series? I'm currently in the market for a new scope for work, and I'm trying to decide between the SDS2354X-HD and the SDS5034X.5000X is a larger unit with individual vertical controls.
Things I'm a bit unsure of are: what's the resolution of the ADC on the 5000 series; is there a worthwhile benefit for the 12 bit ADC compared to having 5GSa/s over the 2354X-HD's 2GSa/s? The external arb is kind of a letdown on the 5000 series, but I'm not sure how often I'd be using it anyway.5000X = 8 bit
Currently the 5034X is $3690 US and the 2354X-HD is $4145. Is there something besides the ADC that I'm missing here which would justify the cost?12 bit ADC cost.
Things I'm a bit unsure of are: what's the resolution of the ADC on the 5000 series; is there a worthwhile benefit for the 12 bit ADC compared to having 5GSa/s over the 2354X-HD's 2GSa/s? The external arb is kind of a letdown on the 5000 series, but I'm not sure how often I'd be using it anyway.The SDS5000X is an older 8-bit machine; my biggest grieve with this instrument is the limited resources. Consultants had big plans with it, but as usual, hardware was ready before that and there are some features and functions that never materialized because of the lack of memory and FPGA resources. Only the SDS6000 finally became what the 5000 should actually have been (except for the bandwidth).
Currently the 5034X is $3690 US and the 2354X-HD is $4145. Is there something besides the ADC that I'm missing here which would justify the cost?
and 1 GHz bandwidth only in half-channel mode
Thanks y'all. I think I'll pull the trigger on the 2354X-HD as soon as I find one in-stock! I don't think I can justify waiting and the additional cost for the 3000X-HD, whenever it comes out. Maybe the 800-HD series will come out and I'll grab one of those for myself...Do seriously consider getting the current promotional option bundle too:
Thanks y'all. I think I'll pull the trigger on the 2354X-HD as soon as I find one in-stock! I don't think I can justify waiting and the additional cost for the 3000X-HD, whenever it comes out. Maybe the 800-HD series will come out and I'll grab one of those for myself...Both will be available before March.
Boy, this I call an offer:It is but sadly the PA option is not also included. :(
SDS2XHD-BND -->SPL2016 !!!, SDS2000HD-16LA, SDS2000HD-FG,SDS2000HD-I2S/1553B/FlexRay/CANFD/SENT/Manch all in for $266 :scared:
Both will be available before March.
"Before March", "after CNY" -- that's a manageable margin of uncertainty. :)
Now, about the pricing...
Now I want an SPL2016...... :-/OLOL
Hahaha, yep! Another project for the list of projects. :-DD10 way Micro coax ribbon is darn hard to find in short lengths. :rant:
Looks pretty easy to build since oz2cpu (and others, including you) thankfully did all the hard work.
I wonder if there is a source for coaxial ribbon cable? I'd love to make a version that closely replicates the look and feel of the original.
Hahaha, yep! Another project for the list of projects. :-DD
Looks pretty easy to build since oz2cpu (and others, including you) thankfully did all the hard work.
I wonder if there is a source for coaxial ribbon cable? I'd love to make a version that closely replicates the look and feel of the original.
Yep! Too good of a deal to pass up.Thanks y'all. I think I'll pull the trigger on the 2354X-HD as soon as I find one in-stock! I don't think I can justify waiting and the additional cost for the 3000X-HD, whenever it comes out. Maybe the 800-HD series will come out and I'll grab one of those for myself...Do seriously consider getting the current promotional option bundle too:
https://siglentna.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/
I am in the process of evaluating the purchase of the SDS2104X HD and am reading related topics.
One problem is that it seems that the user manual is not updated for the latest firmware - V1.2.2.2.5.
Is there a link where it can be found or is it still in the works until a newer firmware is released soon?
Or, have the new models taken up all the resources for now?
What is a uWb?
micro Weber?
Nice! But hadn't tautech stated that this model is being phased out, and those interested in the 100 MHz version should order while it is still in stock?Well I missed that one, but it would explain why the 2104 is non longer listed on Batterfly !...
I'm also talking about the 100MHz. 1.9k euro was right on the verge of my budget so...Yeah, I thought about buying it too, but really the difference is not that big. Both are still in the ~2K price range. If €400 makes such a big difference, that's because this is probably not the right price range for us. I agree the older pricing was quite awesome though.
It's the 100MHz version being discontinued, not the model line. Our best guess about the reasons behind that decision are about price and features segmentation.
The base price is going to be €2.228 + VAT, or thereabouts, for the SDS2204X-HD. That is why you can only buy the 100MHz version if it is on stock, as Siglent can just swap the label on the front. The hardware is identical regardless of bandwidth.
With the release price of the 3000X-HD models, the previous 2000X-HD pricing made no sense. They had to slash the MSRP heavily. By making the 200MHz version as base model, they can get away with not lowering it as much.
So, right now, the effective price reduction of the 2000X-HD is €400, instead of €800 for the same hardware if they had kept selling the 2104X-HD.
According to one distributor that I talked to Siglent has discontinued the 100MHz model. The ones that are at sale is the current stock.
I'm also talking about the 100MHz. 1.9k euro was right on the verge of my budget so...Yeah, I thought about buying it too, but really the difference is not that big. Both are still in the ~2K price range. If €400 makes such a big difference, that's because this is probably not the right price range for us. I agree the older pricing was quite awesome though.
I'm also talking about the 100MHz. 1.9k euro was right on the verge of my budget so...
Hello,
my SDS2104X HD has arrived safely. Unfortunately, the SDS2XHD-BND was not yet included.
Does the included mouse work with Bluetooth?
The SDS3034X HD will probably not arrive before the end of April. Hopefully it won't take any longer.
Best regards
egonotto
...
I agree but still, €400 is €400. It can be a nice DMM or something else and we're not talking about a 10-15k scope where the €400 might be a small portion of the total price. But yeah I know what you mean. In my case, I could afford the extra €400 but I always try to set a budget limit and stick to it. It has proven to be a good practise.
At the end of the day there are many options out there and quite frankly I don't need everything the sds offers and I definitely don't need more than 100MHz.
Regarding the price drop before discontinue it I think this was the reason. To get rid of the stock as soon as possible. Perhaps.. I don't know, it's just my guess :)
Hello,
my SDS2104X HD has arrived safely. Unfortunately, the SDS2XHD-BND was not yet included.
Does the included mouse work with Bluetooth?
The SDS3034X HD will probably not arrive before the end of April. Hopefully it won't take any longer.
Best regards
egonotto
Hello,
my SDS2104X HD has arrived safely. Unfortunately, the SDS2XHD-BND was not yet included.
Does the included mouse work with Bluetooth?
The SDS3034X HD will probably not arrive before the end of April. Hopefully it won't take any longer.
Best regards
egonotto
Here is a link to the mouse that came with my scope: https://www.rapoo-eu.com/product/m10-plus/ (https://www.rapoo-eu.com/product/m10-plus/)
It is 2.4 GHz and I assume it is bluetooth.
Here is a link to the mouse that came with my scope: https://www.rapoo-eu.com/product/m10-plus/ (https://www.rapoo-eu.com/product/m10-plus/)
It is 2.4 GHz and I assume it is bluetooth.
If it's BT you can see whith your phone.
That is a good tip!
I would be grateful if you could teach me the tricks/settings that you change from factory! Anything to increase its capabilities like adding PA and other useful options would be greatly appreciated!They are not much.
Hello,When installing the SDS2XHD-BND LIC files ?
now my SDS2XHD-BND has also arrived. Getting the licenses took some work. When I plugged in the USB dongle, I had problems because my SDS2104X HD crashed.
Hello,When installing the SDS2XHD-BND LIC files ?
now my SDS2XHD-BND has also arrived. Getting the licenses took some work. When I plugged in the USB dongle, I had problems because my SDS2104X HD crashed.
With my SDS2104X HD I only get 97 Mpts per channel
Correct however it need be pointed out the 200 Mpts is available to a single channel or when 1 channel is on each ADC and as each ADC has 200 Mpts available this will be divided down to 100 Mpts when 3 or 4 channels are in use.With my SDS2104X HD I only get 97 Mpts per channel
"Record length up to 200 Mpts/ch, 400 Mpts in total for all 4 channels"
Correct however it need be pointed out the 200 Mpts is available to a single channel or when 1 channel is on each ADC and as each ADC has 200 Mpts available this will be divided down to 100 Mpts when 3 or 4 channels are in use.
Yep, Rob is immensely valuable to the entire Siglent community, helping everywhere well out of his physical area of responsibility. We all are deeply indebted to Rob for his continual help and guidance with Siglent products :-+
Folks considering various equipments should consider the Built-In Siglent" help Rob represents here ;)
Best,
Well it's not like I didn't know what you meant so only added clarity for other readers that may not be aware of the acquisition system configuration in these models. ;)Correct however it need be pointed out the 200 Mpts is available to a single channel or when 1 channel is on each ADC and as each ADC has 200 Mpts available this will be divided down to 100 Mpts when 3 or 4 channels are in use.
Yup, but it's like they say: why type something out when you know Rob will do it for you? 😉😉
Hello,
many oscilloscopes from other companies have much more segmented memory than in non-segmented mode. E.g. R&S RTB, RTM, RTA, MXO 4, MXO 5, Rigol DHO1074, Micsig MHO3, Cleverscope CS328A.
Best regards
egonotto
.... and some scopes you should recheck the datasheets for.
Anybody see anything missing or inaccurate?SDS3000X HD 400 Mpts
.... and some scopes you should recheck the datasheets for.
Hello,
which scope do you mean? Perhaps MXO 4 or MXO 5?
RTB, RTM and RTA have far more than twice as much segmented memory. RTA has about 2 GSa segmented memory.
Cleverscope CS328A uses double buffers and makes the second buffer available for segmented memory.
The MHO3 has about 2 times 860 MSa of segmented memory.
If I remember correctly, I have more than 300 MSa of segmented memory in my DHO1074.
Best regards
egonotto
Hello,
in segmented memory mode I always get less than 100 Mpts/channel with four channels.
Am I doing something wrong?
According to 2N3055 you get much more with the SDS3000X HD: "It is 159 Mpts with 1Mpts length, per channel". With my SDS2104X HD I only get 97 Mpts per channel
Best regards
egonotto
Hello,
many oscilloscopes from other companies have much more segmented memory than in non-segmented mode. E.g. R&S RTB, RTM, RTA, MXO 4, MXO 5, Rigol DHO1074, Micsig MHO3, Cleverscope CS328A.
Best regards
egonotto
I am concerned here with the segmented memory.
I am concerned here with the segmented memory.
Oh, it's way past my bedtime, I missed that part. Somebody else should chime in on the segmented memory comparison. I find it hard to believe that those other scopes are better based on the memory depth comparison, but I don't really know anything about comparing segmented memory and regular memory depth.
I would describe this as normal, it has to be initialized once by a restart.
We normally install the license keys once and then just forget about them.
Yet it just so happens that just recently I decided to bring some of my scopes up to date and install the missng licenses (e.g. of options that haven't been available back when I got the instruments), therefore I remember very well how it goes.
The instrument prompts you to do a restart after each and every license key that has been accepted. You can ignore that prompt and install another license immediately, yet after entering the last key you should perform the requested restart.
We normally install the license keys once and then just forget about them.
Yet it just so happens that just recently I decided to bring some of my scopes up to date and install the missng licenses (e.g. of options that haven't been available back when I got the instruments), therefore I remember very well how it goes.
The instrument prompts you to do a restart after each and every license key that has been accepted. You can ignore that prompt and install another license immediately, yet after entering the last key you should perform the requested restart.
I had the USB stick loaded with the 8 license files that were included with the LA bundle, and in my case there definitely were no prompts between each license. They all were installed automatically one after another once I started the installation.
I had the USB stick loaded with the 8 license files that were included with the LA bundle, and in my case there definitely were no prompts between each license. They all were installed automatically one after another once I started the installation.Well, then there is a problem with the USB-installation method. Of course we would not expect a restart prompt after every single key, but after the last key from the USB-stick has been processed.
Hello,
the RTB2000 from R&S is particularly striking. It has 20 MSa per ADC, but you can have 16 segments with 20 MSa in segmented mode.
"
record length: 20 Msample
segments (up to): 16
total memory (per channel): 320 Msample
"
I have not found any information on the size of the segmented memory in the Rigol and Micsig data sheets. I can only provide the data from my devices.
Best regards
egonotto
When I entered the 8 licenses via USB stick, I also did not get a prompt to restart.I´ve entered the keys "manually" with the keypad, after every (confirmed)entry the prompt for restart appears.
Hello,
thanks Performa01, with my SDS2104X HD I don't even quite reach the 2 * 200 Mpts.
With four channels and a segment size of 1 Mpts, I only get 97 segments.
I assume I'm doing something wrong, but even with only 1 channel active, I couldn't get it above 100Mpts. Granted, it was my first attempt to ever use sequence mode. 🤷
Hello,
with one channel and 2 Mpts segment size I get 97 segments. That is 194 Mpts. You probably can't get more than 200 Mpts with just one channel.
Best regards
egonotto
Does the SDS2104X HD use double buffers in run mode?There are not any signs for that, so I’d just say “no”. It wouldn’t make much sense either.
Hello,
thanks Performa01, with my SDS2104X HD I don't even quite reach the 2 * 200 Mpts.
With four channels and a segment size of 1 Mpts, I only get 97 segments.
I assume I'm doing something wrong, but even with only 1 channel active, I couldn't get it above 100Mpts. Granted, it was my first attempt to ever use sequence mode. 🤷
However, if you have 4 channels active, I would assume 100Mpts to be the maximum. 200Mpts x 2 = 200 per ADC, and each ADC has 2 channels. You clearly have more experience with this than I do, so I suggest trying only channels 1 and 3, and deactivate channels 2 and 4 and see if you get more memory available that way.
Hello,
I have a question. In the context of the MHO3 update rate, I recorded a burst of trigger signals with the SDS2104X HD.
Such a burst occurs approximately every 28 ms. (Question1.png). Question2.png shows the start of a burst. Roughly speaking, a burst has about 1000 pulses.
Is there an easy way to determine the number of pulses in a burst?
Best regards
egonotto
Mine is on the way from Jeulin 8).Well it took a bit longer than expected (they said EU restocking was delayed due to troubles in the red sea :scared:) but my SDS2104X HD finally arrived ! :-+
They said it should arrive within 2 weeks :popcorn:
Mine is on the way from Jeulin 8).Well it took a bit longer than expected (they said EU restocking was delayed due to troubles in the red sea :scared:) but my SDS2104X HD finally arrived ! :-+
They said it should arrive within 2 weeks :popcorn:
(Attachment Link)
For those of you interested to get one in the EU, the Siglent sales rep at Jeulin said there might still be some stock they can get access to... : https://jeulin.com/jeulin_en/297376.html
Congrats!Thank you!
Did you get the LA bundle with it?Nope, it was too much for my budget :( Actually, the scope by itself was already too much for my budget ! :-DD
Congrats!Thank you!Did you get the LA bundle with it?Nope, it was too much for my budget :( Actually, the scope by itself was already to much for my budget ! :-DD
Hello,
I have a question. In the context of the MHO3 update rate, I recorded a burst of trigger signals with the SDS2104X HD.
Such a burst occurs approximately every 28 ms. (Question1.png). Question2.png shows the start of a burst. Roughly speaking, a burst has about 1000 pulses.
Is there an easy way to determine the number of pulses in a burst?
Best regards
egonotto
Hello,
I have a question. In the context of the MHO3 update rate, I recorded a burst of trigger signals with the SDS2104X HD.
Such a burst occurs approximately every 28 ms. (Question1.png). Question2.png shows the start of a burst. Roughly speaking, a burst has about 1000 pulses.
Is there an easy way to determine the number of pulses in a burst?
Best regards
egonotto
Any chance zone trigger (either as is, or with a new feature enhancement from Siglent) might somehow enable the scope to yield stats such as a pulse count within the designated zone?
I tried making oscilloscope music with the SDS2000X HD, the results are great, much better than I anticipated.
Welectron is still the only store that has the 2104X HD in stock.
But still at the old price... :horse:
Hello,
when I didn't have SDS2XHD-BND, the trial counters of all decoding options were decreased by one when I used SPI.
I have now contacted Siglent.
Although I will probably never need ARINC (I can no longer fly from a school :)).
Best regards
egonotto
That's not entirely correct, the french distributor Jeulin still carries the SDS2104X for the new price of 1880€ (excl tax). Granted, the page states that the scope is on order, but it already said that 2 weeks ago when I ordered myself and the scope arrived just now ;D"On order" is a miss-translation, they mean that they will order from Siglent if/when you place your order ("sur commande" in French).
https://jeulin.com/jeulin_en/297376.html (https://jeulin.com/jeulin_en/297376.html)
Oh, I see now. 9 degrees for 10 cycles = 90 degrees.
Here is the sig gen
It also seems the 100MHz will still be produced?Yes, and that's a surprise !
It was implied by Tautech in another thread also. ¿Maybe they are making a hardware revision? I wouldn't be surprised.It also seems the 100MHz will still be produced?Yes, and that's a surprise !
I've been told by Siglent's French sales rep that the 100 Mhz version was going to be discontinued :-// Maybe he meant "The white 100Mhz version" ?! 8)
Seems the nice light gray design of the SDS2000X HD is also over in the near future :-\
As seen on the EmbeddedWorld 2024 which ended recently.
from the 800X HD Wanted Features thread….TBH how I would skin a cat and the order I might do it in might be quite different to others.
“From SDS2000X HD and up Fixed Mem depth is offered which can offer an order of magnitude more zoom out than the scope you are used to....when the advantage of deep memory displays itself.”
just a request/suggestion: It would be nice to see from Siglent or a distributor or a user a video showing workflow for trigger / capture / search / review / zoom and related navigation for the 2000X HD
I have a hunch ...
I have a hunch ...
A hardware modification? Why should they?
I have a hunch ...
A hardware modification? Why should they?
I have the impression that the SDS2000X HD always has a small downward dent in the left in channel 1 when the input is open in auto-trigger mode.
Hello,
I have the impression that the SDS2000X HD always has a small downward dent in the left in channel 1 when the input is open in auto-trigger mode.
Best regards
egonotto