Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 92380 times)

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Offline edigi

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #100 on: January 17, 2020, 03:33:36 pm »
OK, thank you.
One more question: What does the bandwidth upgrade really mean with these scopes (I mean specifically Siglent or Rigol)? Is anything changed in the analogue front end (I mean beyond the anyhow user settable limit(s) like the typical 20 MHz + some higher bandwidth limit) or something else as well (what)?
Or is it only limited only to what amount of zoom is allowed when looking at the signal?
Yet another words, what is gained with the hacking?
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #101 on: January 17, 2020, 03:43:34 pm »
Definitely, otherwise I´ll change back to siglent.

Changes come sometimes real quick - Set my rigol into eBay to check if the price is interesting for someone…..and it´s gone in an hour.. :o 8)
Siglent, I´m coming... ;)

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #102 on: January 17, 2020, 03:58:31 pm »
Changes come sometimes real quick - Set my rigol into eBay to check if the price is interesting for someone…..and it´s gone in an hour.. :o 8)
Siglent, I´m coming... ;)

 :scared:  Who will keep the MSO5000 threads ? ?
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #103 on: January 17, 2020, 04:24:09 pm »
I´ll do it as far it can go without having a 5000...

For me, the rigol 5000 is an excellent scope - But 50Ohm, Eres, 10.1" screen and probably lower input noise makes the decision…
For an 2104X plus.
Time will tell whether it´s hackable to 200Mhz or more.


Offline Frex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #104 on: January 17, 2020, 05:08:11 pm »
Hello,

This new scope seems interesting...
Anyway, there is no Bode plot function in the datasheet.
 :-//

Frex
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #105 on: January 17, 2020, 05:38:32 pm »

Offline Frex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2020, 06:34:42 pm »
Oops!

I haven't seen it, thank you.
Now, it's time to wait for a complete Dave reviews.

Frex
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #107 on: January 17, 2020, 07:23:00 pm »
OK, thank you.
One more question: What does the bandwidth upgrade really mean with these scopes (I mean specifically Siglent or Rigol)? Is anything changed in the analogue front end (I mean beyond the anyhow user settable limit(s) like the typical 20 MHz + some higher bandwidth limit) or something else as well (what)?
Or is it only limited only to what amount of zoom is allowed when looking at the signal?
Yet another words, what is gained with the hacking?
Sometimes yes, another step in the x#s/div but mostly BW rolloff filter is lifted.
For 2kX+ we will have to wait to see what the fastest timebase setting will be.
For more understanding of how front end frequency is managed see EEVblog #1228 – Do Digital Scopes Have REAL Verniers?
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Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #108 on: January 17, 2020, 08:13:36 pm »
Somewhat strange price policy though. The SDS5034X (with "full" package) costs just a bit (~320€ or ~10%) more than the SDS2354X Plus.
I didn't even check all the details, but the higher sample rate (5GSa/s vs. 2GSa/s) alone would justify a higher price difference.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #109 on: January 17, 2020, 08:51:15 pm »
That's not strange at all. That's precisely to make you choose the SDS5000X.
 

Offline edigi

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2020, 08:52:25 pm »
For more understanding of how front end frequency is managed see EEVblog #1228 – Do Digital Scopes Have REAL Verniers?

I've rechecked that video (I'm certain that I've seen it already, so I've skipped occasionally) but that's about front end gain control (with AD8370) not about frequency control. So what front end frequency control does Siglent use?
Btw. I've checked with AD9954 comparator output (this is what I could find to have reasonable fast rise/fall times) and if 5th harmonic fits into the bandwidth that gives indeed meaningful signal shape (like nctnico wrote).
 

Offline Plasmateur

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #111 on: January 17, 2020, 09:04:48 pm »
This scope looks to be the step up level in the trifecta for me.

I have to have one of these. Hopefully I can sell my DS1054Z for a decent price.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #112 on: January 17, 2020, 09:58:13 pm »
This scope looks to be the step up level in the trifecta for me.

I have to have one of these. Hopefully I can sell my DS1054Z for a decent price.

Given that the DS1054Z is already at the very bottom of the price range (Mariana Trench level) when bought new, there's almost no reason to sell it.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #113 on: January 17, 2020, 10:26:20 pm »
Yep,

My MSO5074 goes for 899, so I must pay "only" appx 500 additional for the SDS2104X Plus...
God, the model names is killing me.... |O
What does the plus model have in common to the non plus, except the samplerate, to have only the "plus" in it´s name....

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #114 on: January 18, 2020, 12:34:20 am »
What does the plus model have in common to the non plus, except the samplerate, to have only the "plus" in it´s name....
Honestly not very much.
Plus models offer quite a jump in capability over SDS2kX.

Plus have better sensitivity, bigger and touch display, inbuilt webserver, 50 vs 25 MHz AWG option, 2Mpts FFT, more memory, free decodes for the common protocols and all the new features in the new (like 5kX) UI.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus coming
« Reply #115 on: January 18, 2020, 08:00:01 am »
Lets hope Siglent stay calm and continue this selected road.
What is captured need show and decode (except if decode max data amount is reached.) You many times ask why Siglent do not decode full memory. (It do but somehow you don not want accept it)  But I can ask, why many scopes mostly do not display full currently used memory length at runtime... when they start make scopes what can display all what is captured and runtime, wit details.
You and Performa4 keep missing the point that the way Siglent works makes operating the scope extremely cumbersome. I will never ever buy an oscilloscope which can't be set to use full memory all time. Same for decoding only what is on screen. And I'm 100% sure that once I show you two the benefits you will fully agree with me (just like your 'customer' initially thought segmented recording wasn't needed). It just takes looking outside the Siglent box.

Siglent decode always full memory.
Siglent can always set for full memory capture.

Even if you want look 1ns/div tb things. But I do not know any true case when I need capture example 100000000 ns and 99999990 outside of display (perhaps you know why they need hide)... then stop scope and look these outside display parts. Why hell because I can simply look both on the screen and also runtime. You just have two timebases on the screen. Dual timebase mode (zoom) can shut off when need fast wfm/s or if not need as is case in many times. You tell you need full memory lenghth 99.9%... I can tell that I need (perhaps) full max memory length roughly 0.1% exept in cases where I need max samplerate with quite slow signals. You need 200 or 20M lenght nearly all time. How you did your works when scopes have only 500pts or 10k or 100k memory. Even Tektronix 465 can use for decode, and of course full screen... full memory length (Tek scope camera was memory and decode done using table pencil and ruler... and more fun Tek 7054 can use... ) 


Btw, I have looked oscilloscopes, A and B brands, even C brands tens of years totally out from Siglent box, naturally because whole Siglent is just born, even now I'm not boxed (no one can put me in box as long as I'm in good oxygen). Also there is no money what force some relationship.  So I can free say what ever I want or like. Also no one can buy my opinion, I have enough everything here.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #116 on: January 18, 2020, 09:05:16 am »
Given that the DS1054Z is already at the very bottom of the price range (Mariana Trench level) when bought new, there's almost no reason to sell it.

a) Not true, there's still Owons and Hanteks below that.
b) Why the hate? The DS1054Z was a revolutionary device for the money and was released long before Siglent had anything comparable in that price range. Dave was so blown away by it that he did a whole series of videos, you can't say that for any Siglent. Even today it's still good value (to non-snobs who just want to see four wiggly lines on a screen with minimal investment - a perfectly valid position to be in).

It's not the bottom of a dark pit, it's the first rung of a ladder.
 

Online 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #117 on: January 18, 2020, 11:37:24 am »
I like that the time base accuracy (1ppm initially) is as good as that of the SDS5000X and the channel skew specification is even a bit better (<100ps vs. <150ps). I like a lot that they even specified the trigger jitter for a scope of this price range and the value for CH1..CH4 is actually a magnitude better (<10ps vs. <100ps) than that from the SDS5000X. In both cases I assume that the (older) SDS5000X is just a bit less optimistic, but still.
It's also good to see that the signal generator is internal now (even though it's more of a toy with 3V amplitude at 16kPts for arbitrary signals). In sum, it really looks like a nice scope and not much of a step down from the SDS5000X other than the sample rate, maximum bandwidth and probe interface (but I really like that they kept the probe detection).

BTW: in the table "Models and Key Specifications", the datasheet indicates that only the SDS2354X can be upgraded to 500MHz and doesn't mention bandwidth upgrades for the lower models. Yet later under "Optional Accessories" in lists bandwidth upgrades options for all models.
Quote
SDSQOOOXP-4BW02 - 100 MHZ to 200 MHZ bandwidth upgrade (4-ch model) (software
SDSZOOOXP-4BW03 - 200 MHZ to 350 MHZ bandwidth upgrade (4-ch model) (software)
SDSZOOOXP-4BW05 - 350 MHZ to 500 MHZ bandwidth upgrade (4-ch model) (software)
SDSZOOOXP-ZBW03 - 100 MHZ to 350 MHZ bandwidth upgrade (2-ch model) (software)
So letting aside that the 2 channel model seems to be limited to 200MHz: is it sure that all 4 channel models can be upgraded to 500MHz?
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #118 on: January 18, 2020, 12:02:26 pm »
Quote
I like that the time base accuracy (1ppm initially)

In comparison rigol 5000 got 10ppm in general, where siglent claims 3.5ppm for 10years aging...

Offline Emo

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #119 on: January 18, 2020, 12:46:36 pm »
@0xdeadbeef

CH1..CH4 is actually a magnitude better (<10ps vs. <100ps) than that from the SDS5000X. In both cases I assume that the (older) SDS5000X is just a bit less optimistic, but still.

Not sure if you copied the proper values.
Reading the SDS5000 specs it says (on the 2020-01 sheet) in the trigger system paragraph;
<9ps RMS (typical) for ≥300MHz sine and ≥6 divisions peak to peak amplitude for vertical gain settings from 2.5mV/ div to 10V/div.
<5ps RMS (typical) for ≥500MHz sine and ≥6 divisions peak to peak amplitude for vertical gain settings from 2.5mV/ div to 10V/div.

Eric
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #120 on: January 18, 2020, 12:49:51 pm »
Given that the DS1054Z is already at the very bottom of the price range (Mariana Trench level) when bought new, there's almost no reason to sell it.

a) Not true, there's still Owons and Hanteks below that.
b) Why the hate? The DS1054Z was a revolutionary device for the money and was released long before Siglent had anything comparable in that price range. Dave was so blown away by it that he did a whole series of videos, you can't say that for any Siglent. Even today it's still good value (to non-snobs who just want to see four wiggly lines on a screen with minimal investment - a perfectly valid position to be in).

It's not the bottom of a dark pit, it's the first rung of a ladder.

Eh, hate? Where do you get that from! No hate here, I own one myself! But it really doesn't have the kind of resale value you need to notably offset the cost of any of these Siglent scopes. S, it's better to keep it.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #121 on: January 18, 2020, 01:28:08 pm »
I like that the time base accuracy (1ppm initially) is as good as that of the SDS5000X and the channel skew specification is even a bit better (<100ps vs. <150ps). I like a lot that they even specified the trigger jitter for a scope of this price range and the value for CH1..CH4 is actually a magnitude better (<10ps vs. <100ps) than that from the SDS5000X. In both cases I assume that the (older) SDS5000X is just a bit less optimistic, but still.
It's also good to see that the signal generator is internal now (even though it's more of a toy with 3V amplitude at 16kPts for arbitrary signals). In sum, it really looks like a nice scope and not much of a step down from the SDS5000X other than the sample rate, maximum bandwidth and probe interface (but I really like that they kept the probe detection).

BTW: in the table "Models and Key Specifications", the datasheet indicates that only the SDS2354X can be upgraded to 500MHz and doesn't mention bandwidth upgrades for the lower models. Yet later under "Optional Accessories" in lists bandwidth upgrades options for all models.
Quote
SDSQOOOXP-4BW02 - 100 MHZ to 200 MHZ bandwidth upgrade (4-ch model) (software
SDSZOOOXP-4BW03 - 200 MHZ to 350 MHZ bandwidth upgrade (4-ch model) (software)
SDSZOOOXP-4BW05 - 350 MHZ to 500 MHZ bandwidth upgrade (4-ch model) (software)
SDSZOOOXP-ZBW03 - 100 MHZ to 350 MHZ bandwidth upgrade (2-ch model) (software)
So letting aside that the 2 channel model seems to be limited to 200MHz: is it sure that all 4 channel models can be upgraded to 500MHz?

imho internal generator is good option if remember that also SDS2000XPlus have  quite good SFRA. Without external generator it can do SFRA from 10Hz to 50MHz. And this BodePlotII  IS really good, like reference to others (when look this this class of equipments).

How you look 2 channel model is limnited to 200MHz when there is 2 channel upgrade to 350MHz listed.

But then with 500MHz upgrade. It need tightly understand and take to account what is told in data sheet.
First up to 350MHz versions time scale is 1000s - 1ns/div and with 500MHz upgrade 500ps/div - 1000s/div
But then it is also clearly stated: In interleaving mode bandwidth is 500MHz, risetime is 0.8ns; in non-interleaving mode bandwidth is 350MHz, risetime is 1ns 
Interleaving mode=for one ADC chip only 1 channel is active (2GSa/s).

My opinion why 500MHz risetime is not 0.7ns is that BW fresponse shape also change. (different filtering? As we well know, scopes what have "max flat - brick wall" type response it also, of course, produce lower risetime vs gaussian fresp..)
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Online TK

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #122 on: January 18, 2020, 02:37:05 pm »
Given that the DS1054Z is already at the very bottom of the price range (Mariana Trench level) when bought new, there's almost no reason to sell it.

a) Not true, there's still Owons and Hanteks below that.
b) Why the hate? The DS1054Z was a revolutionary device for the money and was released long before Siglent had anything comparable in that price range. Dave was so blown away by it that he did a whole series of videos, you can't say that for any Siglent. Even today it's still good value (to non-snobs who just want to see four wiggly lines on a screen with minimal investment - a perfectly valid position to be in).

It's not the bottom of a dark pit, it's the first rung of a ladder.

Eh, hate? Where do you get that from! No hate here, I own one myself! But it really doesn't have the kind of resale value you need to notably offset the cost of any of these Siglent scopes. S, it's better to keep it.
Actually the Rigol DS1054Z has a much better resell value than any siglent scope.  It is almost on any hobbyist / maker bench I see on youtube, I cannot say the same about siglent.  There is a level where price matters more than features, and DS1054Z is the winner at that level.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #123 on: January 18, 2020, 03:04:31 pm »
Actually the Rigol DS1054Z has a much better resell value than any siglent scope.  It is almost on any hobbyist / maker bench I see on youtube, I cannot say the same about siglent.  There is a level where price matters more than features, and DS1054Z is the winner at that level.
You can buy it new for about €380 (net. €315) through Batronix, including shipping within Europe. You'll get nowhere near that money when selling used. €200, maybe?
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #124 on: January 18, 2020, 03:12:48 pm »
On eBay germany, the last was sold by 322€ in used condition, lowest selling price in the last months was 279€ .

(Using the filter "selled items", you can also choose to search only in your country our worldwide)


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