Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 92022 times)

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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #125 on: January 18, 2020, 03:41:13 pm »
What I don´t really get are the prices for the bandwith-updates…

Difference between the 4-channel 100Mhz siglent and the 200Mhz version is 700€.
But upgrading from 100 to 200Mhz will cost  1300€  :o
And what about this 500Mhz thing..
Batronix claims on their site: "Bandwidth upgrade from 350 MHz to 500 MHz for the SDS2354X Plus. For 2 channels only."
Aha, it´s an upgrade for the 4-channel version - But for 2 channels only ?!
A little bit confusing..
Or the true meaning is, you can upgrade your 2-channel 100Mhz Siglent to 350Mhz (costs 929€) and then from the 350Mhz to 500.. :-//

Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #126 on: January 18, 2020, 04:38:51 pm »
Difference between the 4-channel 100Mhz siglent and the 200Mhz version is 700€.
But upgrading from 100 to 200Mhz will cost  1300€  :o

It's the same logic as a plea-bargain.

They know many people won't ever upgrade so they threaten them with much higher prices if they don't buy now.
 
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Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #127 on: January 18, 2020, 05:49:19 pm »
Actually the Rigol DS1054Z has a much better resell value than any siglent scope.  It is almost on any hobbyist / maker bench I see on youtube, I cannot say the same about siglent.  There is a level where price matters more than features, and DS1054Z is the winner at that level.
You can buy it new for about €380 (net. €315) through Batronix, including shipping within Europe. You'll get nowhere near that money when selling used. €200, maybe?
I sold 2 in the past for around $300, lightly used.  If you put them in auction mode, a significant number of buyers will bid and pay around $300.
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #128 on: January 18, 2020, 07:35:28 pm »
@0xdeadbeef

CH1..CH4 is actually a magnitude better (<10ps vs. <100ps) than that from the SDS5000X. In both cases I assume that the (older) SDS5000X is just a bit less optimistic, but still.

Not sure if you copied the proper values.
Reading the SDS5000 specs it says (on the 2020-01 sheet) in the trigger system paragraph;
<9ps RMS (typical) for ≥300MHz sine and ≥6 divisions peak to peak amplitude for vertical gain settings from 2.5mV/ div to 10V/div.
<5ps RMS (typical) for ≥500MHz sine and ≥6 divisions peak to peak amplitude for vertical gain settings from 2.5mV/ div to 10V/div.

Eric

Well, I guess they updated that part of the datasheet at some point. The datasheet I had at hand is rather old (January 2019) and I was too lazy to download a new one. And in this datasheet, the "Jitter <100 ps (CH1 ~ CH4)" statement is the only one in the "Trigger System" table. Anywhere, it was suspected from the start that these values were a bit pessimistic.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus coming
« Reply #129 on: January 18, 2020, 09:30:25 pm »
Why hell because I can simply look both on the screen and also runtime. You just have two timebases on the screen. Dual timebase mode (zoom)
Yeah the good old zoom mode crutch (again) which eats away 30% or more of the screen real estate. Very nice if you have 3 or 4 signals, bus decoding and maybe some digital signals and / or measurements on screen. Crammed into the zoom screen that becomes an unreadable mess anyway. Try do some mixed (digital / analog) circuit debugging and you'll see how this gets cumbersome quickly.
Quote
How you did your works when scopes have only 500pts or 10k or 100k memory.
Much slower. I can tell you that because it needed re-capture after recapture while coming up with different ways to trigger on a specific event. There is a reason why oscilloscopes have more and more memory nowadays: to work faster. It makes no sense to not be able to use that all the time without needing to give up 30% of the screen just to coerce the oscilloscope to use more memory.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 09:32:35 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #130 on: January 18, 2020, 10:16:24 pm »
Difference between the 4-channel 100Mhz siglent and the 200Mhz version is 700€.

Never mind. People will only be buying the 100MHz model. The rest of the prices are irrelevant.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #131 on: January 18, 2020, 11:06:05 pm »
 ;D

But there is the thing about the 500Mhz bandwith upgrade  and only for 2 channel….what does it means.


Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #132 on: January 18, 2020, 11:09:12 pm »
;D

But there is the thing about the 500Mhz bandwith upgrade  and only for 2 channel….what does it means.

From what I read, it means that you can only have 500MHz in 2 channels. You can't have a 4-channel 500MHz scope.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #133 on: January 18, 2020, 11:29:11 pm »
So the 500Mhz are uninteresting for me, 350Mhz are more than enough for the things I do at home.


Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #134 on: January 19, 2020, 02:00:31 am »
In a nutshell, four channels make interleaving impossible, so the sample rate drops to 1GSa/s. And with that, 500MHz bandwidth would be somewhat pointless for anything but perfect sines.
With only two channels, interleaving increases the sample rate to 2GSa/s which is OKish for 500MHz.

Side note: didn't notice at first, but the SDS2000X Plus also lacks the VGA output and the 10MHz in/out. No showstoppers from my point of view, but worth noting.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #135 on: January 19, 2020, 03:34:19 am »
;D

But there is the thing about the 500Mhz bandwith upgrade  and only for 2 channel….what does it means.

Why it is so amazing difficult to understand... it is also told in datasheet. Also in  Reply #121 it is said.

System is build so that in 4 channel models there is 2 ADC chips. One for CH 1 and 2 and one for CH 3 and 4.
ADC works interleaved mode when it handle only one channel it can 2GSa/s.
Now if one have 500MHz upgrade it opens 500MHz BW when ADCs are working interleaved mode. (2GSs/s)
It reduce BW back to 350MHz when scope goes to non-interleaved mode (1Gsa/s). It need also note that ADC work always full speed 2G interleaved or 1G non-interleaved independent of if decimated samplerate is slower.
If one ADC is in non-interleaved mode then also other is forced to non-interleaved mode.

Why it is so. Simple. 1GSa/s is not enough for 500MHz BW. Theoretically 500MHz BW minus very little  is possible for unknown signals but only if we have theoretically ideal 500MHz lp brick wall filter and nearly infinite amount of samples for do true Sin(x)/x interpolation... just as example HPs Chris Rehorn explain long time ago.

So 500MHz BW (after upgrade) is only for max 2 channels simultaneously on and so that mode is interleaved, so CH1 or 2  and/or CH3 or 4 and upgraded scope have 500MHz BW other ways 350MHz. When ADCs goes to non-interleaved mode BW is then 350MHz. So there is autoswitch what change BW filter.

Interleaving /non-interleaving explained in datasheet page 9
Upgrade explained in page 9 and explanation page 10 (note 1. small font)
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #136 on: January 19, 2020, 03:36:40 am »
In a nutshell, four channels make interleaving impossible, so the sample rate drops to 1GSa/s. And with that, 500MHz bandwidth would be somewhat pointless for anything but perfect sines.
With only two channels, interleaving increases the sample rate to 2GSa/s which is OKish for 500MHz.

Side note: didn't notice at first, but the SDS2000X Plus also lacks the VGA output and the 10MHz in/out. No showstoppers from my point of view, but worth noting.

It is not pointless - there is no such situation, BW (also scopes what are upgraded with 500MHz option) is 350MHz  in non-interleaving mode for avoid Nyq-Shan violations. It is told in datasheet.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 04:06:58 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #137 on: January 19, 2020, 09:14:48 am »
In a nutshell, four channels make interleaving impossible, so the sample rate drops to 1GSa/s. And with that, 500MHz bandwidth would be somewhat pointless for anything but perfect sines.
With only two channels, interleaving increases the sample rate to 2GSa/s which is OKish for 500MHz.

Side note: didn't notice at first, but the SDS2000X Plus also lacks the VGA output and the 10MHz in/out. No showstoppers from my point of view, but worth noting.

It is not pointless - there is no such situation, BW (also scopes what are upgraded with 500MHz option) is 350MHz  in non-interleaving mode for avoid Nyq-Shan violations. It is told in datasheet.

It's perfectly fine, really. You get a 500MHz scope if you use only two channels at the same time (which includes trigger, I guess) and 350MHz with all 4. I could get plenty of use out of that configuration.
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #138 on: January 19, 2020, 10:57:27 am »
In a nutshell, four channels make interleaving impossible, so the sample rate drops to 1GSa/s. And with that, 500MHz bandwidth would be somewhat pointless for anything but perfect sines.
With only two channels, interleaving increases the sample rate to 2GSa/s which is OKish for 500MHz.

It is not pointless - there is no such situation, BW (also scopes what are upgraded with 500MHz option) is 350MHz  in non-interleaving mode for avoid Nyq-Shan violations. It is told in datasheet.
I feel you objected to something I didn't say. The "would be" indicates a type 2 conditional which is used to refer to a situation that is unreal.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #139 on: January 19, 2020, 12:30:37 pm »


I feel you objected to something I didn't say. The "would be" indicates a type 2 conditional which is used to refer to a situation that is unreal.

Ok. Yes it looks like...  But now it is clear (also to me  ;) )
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 12:32:31 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #140 on: January 19, 2020, 10:49:18 pm »
I won´t talk dirty about rigol, never ever - I´ve been "grown up" ( as far as a man in it´s 40s can grow up) with them what private usage concerns.
But have a look at the frontpanel of the siglent…
Dedicated trigger mode buttons...my eyes are going wet... ;)
The cooperation with lecroy is a clear benefit for siglent´s own products.

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #141 on: January 19, 2020, 11:11:26 pm »
Still missing the 'force trigger' button though.  >:D
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #142 on: January 19, 2020, 11:20:39 pm »
 ;D You again… ;)

Force I didn´t need in real.
Pain in the arse was the rigol front - I alway misunderstood the "Auto" button for the triggermode... :palm:

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #143 on: January 20, 2020, 12:33:44 am »
I'd probably miss force trigger but it wouldn't kill me.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #144 on: January 20, 2020, 12:37:28 am »
Force I didn´t need in real.
It comes in quite handy to check signals with the triggering in normal mode. I use it regulary but like maginnovision it is something I could do without.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #145 on: January 20, 2020, 10:08:05 am »
Hello,

I have expressed many times my interest for the new SDS2000X Plus MSO....but I don't know what to do today.
I had a very bad experience few weeks ago with Siglent. I bought a SVA1015X which came with a very old calibration certificate.
Siglent did not give any sign of life after having informed me and Batronix that they were going to send me a recent device before the end of the year (2019).
They don't have a working cal center in Germany yet so they had to send me a new device.
And Im still waiting so Batronix proceed to a refund....

Im very disapointed  :--
 

Offline Serg65536

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #146 on: January 20, 2020, 11:24:37 am »
The hardware seems to be a simplification from the older sds5000x series:
https://int.siglent.com/products-document/sds5000x/
https://int.siglent.com/products-document/sds2000xp/

The frame rate and measurement speed of the SDS5000X series are simply terrible (~5000 frames/s with low memory depth)


At the level of hantek scopes :) :)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 11:27:04 am by Serg65536 »
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #147 on: January 20, 2020, 11:34:42 am »
Hi,
I've ordered a 2104 now, should arrive in the next days.

 
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Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #148 on: January 20, 2020, 01:09:21 pm »
Are you selling your MSO5074 ?
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #149 on: January 20, 2020, 09:06:47 pm »
Hi,

Yes, I´ve sold it.
Placed it in eBay and it was gone in the first hour….


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