Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 112073 times)

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Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1250 on: June 03, 2020, 09:47:50 pm »
To be honest, no.
Just calculating from the risetime given from the leo bodnar pulsegen and the fact, that the channels of one ADC turning to bandwithlimit (350Mhz), when operate together, refering to the manual.

I just wonder if the response is flat ... It makes me think of the first generation sds5034x frontend which don't have the same hardware as the 500 and 1GHz.
I find it odd to have a silkscreen/ test point difference and no HW rev change.
 

Offline famalex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1251 on: June 03, 2020, 09:54:07 pm »
I have 120MHz gen only, so it's impossible to check how successful was upgrading of my scope.  I ordered  an cheep HF generator based on ADF4351 VFO.  I will experiment with them.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1252 on: June 03, 2020, 09:56:31 pm »
That's sort of pointless. If you don't know how "flat" the source is you can't verify the scope either.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1253 on: June 03, 2020, 09:57:45 pm »
I just wonder if the response is flat ... It makes me think of the first generation sds5034x frontend which don't have the same hardware as the 500 and 1GHz.
Check the SDS2kX Plus datasheet. Response is not perfectly flat and it's rare that it might be however the flatness is specified.
Pages 3 and 4 list a graph and the actual spec.
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Offline stafil

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1254 on: June 03, 2020, 10:00:21 pm »
 

Offline famalex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1255 on: June 03, 2020, 10:04:21 pm »
I agree completely. As I wrote earlier, it need a calibrated HF generator. But such device is much more expensive than my oscilloscope.
 

Offline famalex

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Offline stafil

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1257 on: June 03, 2020, 10:07:32 pm »
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1258 on: June 03, 2020, 10:08:17 pm »
I just wonder if the response is flat ... It makes me think of the first generation sds5034x frontend which don't have the same hardware as the 500 and 1GHz.
Check the SDS2kX Plus datasheet. Response is not perfectly flat and it's rare that it might be however the flatness is specified.
Pages 3 and 4 list a graph and the actual spec.

The idea is not to measure absolute front end performance. Im sure Siglent done it right.
The idea is to compare between the scopes which upgrade in 2354 and those in 2504. Maybe there is hidden HW change since the early models?
 

Offline famalex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1259 on: June 03, 2020, 10:15:42 pm »
Something like this should do the trick, no?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/35MHz-4000MHz-RF-Signal-Generator-Signal-Source-ADF4351-VFO-HXY-D6-V1-02-50-ohms/362852575960
You right. Something like this. :-DD
Not sure if sarcastic or serious...  :-//
The device is exactly as you noted. The price of this gen is $00000013, that is nothing. Simply an toy.
 

Offline stafil

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1260 on: June 03, 2020, 10:17:46 pm »
Something like this should do the trick, no?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/35MHz-4000MHz-RF-Signal-Generator-Signal-Source-ADF4351-VFO-HXY-D6-V1-02-50-ohms/362852575960
You right. Something like this. :-DD
Not sure if sarcastic or serious...  :-//
The device is exactly as you noted. The price of this gen is $00000013, that is nothing. Simply an toy.

OK. I thought it would be good enough to measure the bandwidth of the scope.
 

Offline famalex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1261 on: June 03, 2020, 10:27:08 pm »
Something like this should do the trick, no?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/35MHz-4000MHz-RF-Signal-Generator-Signal-Source-ADF4351-VFO-HXY-D6-V1-02-50-ohms/362852575960
You right. Something like this. :-DD
Not sure if sarcastic or serious...  :-//
The device is exactly as you noted. The price of this gen is $00000013, that is nothing. Simply an toy.

OK. I thought it would be good enough to measure the bandwidth of the scope.
Thank you. I appreciated your humor.
But for serious measure, I will look for a serious device. Of course.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1262 on: June 03, 2020, 10:35:56 pm »
I just wonder if the response is flat ... It makes me think of the first generation sds5034x frontend which don't have the same hardware as the 500 and 1GHz.
Check the SDS2kX Plus datasheet. Response is not perfectly flat and it's rare that it might be however the flatness is specified.
Pages 3 and 4 list a graph and the actual spec.

The idea is not to measure absolute front end performance. Im sure Siglent done it right.
The idea is to compare between the scopes which upgrade in 2354 and those in 2504. Maybe there is hidden HW change since the early models?
Not absolutely sure but I don't believe there is.
After not getting the first 5kX front ends perfect I don't see them making that mistake again in a hurry after all why would you wanna have 2 different production boards for a product you're gunna be making for a while.
Doesn't make sense to me.
I used 3 yes 3 sig gens to check the SDS2104X Plus I had as much to my surprise the -3dB point was some 185 MHz.
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Offline stafil

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1263 on: June 03, 2020, 10:48:35 pm »
Thank you. I appreciated your humor.
But for serious measure, I will look for a serious device. Of course.

Out of curiosity, what's the unit of measurement of "Device Seriousness"? Would 10 MegaSeriousnets do? :-DD
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 10:51:28 pm by stafil »
 

Offline famalex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1264 on: June 03, 2020, 10:59:28 pm »
Thank you. I appreciated your humor.
But for serious measure, I will look for a serious device. Of course.

Out of curiosity, what's the unit of measurement of "Device Seriousness"? Would 10 MegaSeriousnets do? :-DD
I will think about how to name the unit of seriousness. But it will be tomorrow. In the meantime, I will think about sleep. Good night.
Have a nice day.
 

Offline KeBeNe

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1265 on: June 04, 2020, 03:38:24 am »
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 07:22:16 am by KeBeNe »
 
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Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1266 on: June 04, 2020, 07:15:50 am »
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1267 on: June 04, 2020, 07:44:19 am »
Confirmed by a sweep test?

first link, sweep original 2104X:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2964500/#msg2964500

second link, sweep with 500Mhz hack (show 2354X in the system info):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2965752/#msg2965752

Very nice thank you.
I don't see how a 2504X could be better.

It can't and isn't.
It's just that there must always be people who will start with " But are you really sure it is the same? " game...
Every single time.. Despite all being explained in detail...

It is simple. 500 MHz option is being sold as after sales, user installable software option. You enter license and it unlocks scope (any SDS2000x+) to a fully featured , CALIBRATED 500 MHz version.  That means every single one was calibrated and tested to 500 MHz version standards, and then by software configuration it was delegated what bandwidth it will have.

So you activate license for 500 MHz, you get 500 MHz version. Period. How you activated license doesn't matter.
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1268 on: June 04, 2020, 08:20:36 am »
It is simple. 500 MHz option is being sold as after sales, user installable software option. You enter license and it unlocks scope (any SDS2000x+) to a fully featured , CALIBRATED 500 MHz version.  That means every single one was calibrated and tested to 500 MHz version standards, and then by software configuration it was delegated what bandwidth it will have.
Bit of nitpicking, but actually the datasheet only states that the 350MHz model SDS2354X can be updated to 500MHz. It's a least possible that Siglent won't sell you an upgrade to 500MHz if your base model is the 100MHz or 200MHz model since they know that these models were not tested/calibrated for 500MHz. The fact that the scopes accept the update doesn't necessarily mean that this is really something officially supported by Siglent. As an example: the SDS5034X accepts the upgrade key for 1GHz but Siglent won't sell you this key knowing that the frontend won't reach 1GHz.
And since I already touched this topic:

It makes me think of the first generation sds5034x frontend which don't have the same hardware as the 500 and 1GHz.
IMHO it's still just an assumption that this ever changed. Or is there any proof in the meantime? At least the sections in the datasheet differentiating the 350MHz model remained unchanged. Or does Siglent sell an upgrade to 1HGz for the 350MHz model in the meantime (e.g. based on serial number)? If they don't: why shouldn't they unless there is a technical limitation?
Besides, it's not uncommon to use different placement for the 1GHz models. AFAIK Tek and Keysight did that in the past. And while different placement means different HW, it's not nearly as expensive as having a different PCB (layout).
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1269 on: June 04, 2020, 08:51:36 am »
As an example: the SDS5034X accepts the upgrade key for 1GHz but Siglent won't sell you this key knowing that the frontend won't reach 1GHz.

Still to be demonstrated!

Regarding the 2354/2504 "war": i'm totally convinced it's just a "aesthetic" thing because of a file mishap at the moment of releasing the equipments from factory. I'll try to clarify it soon.
 
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Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1270 on: June 04, 2020, 09:11:16 am »
As an example: the SDS5034X accepts the upgrade key for 1GHz but Siglent won't sell you this key knowing that the frontend won't reach 1GHz.
Still to be demonstrated!
User supperman posted a screenshot with a Bodnar 40ps pulse generator in this very thread but deleted it again. The reaction to this post is still visible here though. The bandwidth of his scope after upgrading  1GHz was more in the 750MHz range. Which is not bad, but definitely not 1GHz.
He obviously assumed then that he got an old model but I'm unsure if this assumption was only based on the measurement or on a real production date.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1271 on: June 04, 2020, 09:14:13 am »
Confirmed by a sweep test?

first link, sweep original 2104X:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2964500/#msg2964500

second link, sweep with 500Mhz hack (show 2354X in the system info):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2965752/#msg2965752

Very nice thank you.
I don't see how a 2504X could be better.

It can't and isn't.
It's just that there must always be people who will start with " But are you really sure it is the same? " game...
Every single time.. Despite all being explained in detail...


It is simple. 500 MHz option is being sold as after sales, user installable software option. You enter license and it unlocks scope (any SDS2000x+) to a fully featured , CALIBRATED 500 MHz version.  That means every single one was calibrated and tested to 500 MHz version standards, and then by software configuration it was delegated what bandwidth it will have.

So you activate license for 500 MHz, you get 500 MHz version. Period. How you activated license doesn't matter.

I'm not sure why you tell that to me, I also have some devices that have been tv84ed.
I have no doubt that most of their ( and other manufacturer ) device share the exact same hardware, all calibrated to support the highest bandwidth.
As 0xdeadbeef points out to you, there are still unknowns on the SDS5000X that could apply to the SDS2000X Plus.
There are differences in the silkscreen, maybe there are also on some passives values ?
In the previous SDS2000X, there were additional capacitors to limit bandwidth so Siglent masters the concept  ;D
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1272 on: June 04, 2020, 09:19:07 am »
As an example: the SDS5034X accepts the upgrade key for 1GHz but Siglent won't sell you this key knowing that the frontend won't reach 1GHz.
Still to be demonstrated!
User supperman posted a screenshot with a Bodnar 40ps pulse generator in this very thread but deleted it again. The reaction to this post is still visible here though. The bandwidth of his scope after upgrading  1GHz was more in the 750MHz range. Which is not bad, but definitely not 1GHz.
He obviously assumed then that he got an old model but I'm unsure if this assumption was only based on the measurement or on a real production date.
SN# !
His newly purchased SDS5034X was older than my SDS5054X bought mid 2019.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 09:33:09 am by tautech »
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1273 on: June 04, 2020, 10:23:55 am »
Confirmed by a sweep test?

first link, sweep original 2104X:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2964500/#msg2964500

second link, sweep with 500Mhz hack (show 2354X in the system info):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2965752/#msg2965752

Very nice thank you.
I don't see how a 2504X could be better.

It can't and isn't.
It's just that there must always be people who will start with " But are you really sure it is the same? " game...
Every single time.. Despite all being explained in detail...


It is simple. 500 MHz option is being sold as after sales, user installable software option. You enter license and it unlocks scope (any SDS2000x+) to a fully featured , CALIBRATED 500 MHz version.  That means every single one was calibrated and tested to 500 MHz version standards, and then by software configuration it was delegated what bandwidth it will have.

So you activate license for 500 MHz, you get 500 MHz version. Period. How you activated license doesn't matter.

I'm not sure why you tell that to me, I also have some devices that have been tv84ed.
I have no doubt that most of their ( and other manufacturer ) device share the exact same hardware, all calibrated to support the highest bandwidth.
As 0xdeadbeef points out to you, there are still unknowns on the SDS5000X that could apply to the SDS2000X Plus.
There are differences in the silkscreen, maybe there are also on some passives values ?
In the previous SDS2000X, there were additional capacitors to limit bandwidth so Siglent masters the concept  ;D

It wasn't addressed to you. It was more like continuation to your statement...
There are not unknowns. There was 2 versions of 5000X mainboard, but only one on 2000X+.
There cannot be difference in hardware in 2000X+ because all versions are software upgradeable to 500 MHz by user from the day one.
Only thing that is speculative is whether they stopped producing two versions of 5000X, which is logical to me that they did stop it and have only one version now for 5000X too.  That is not 100% verified though. And also, you can also get older version from somebody's stock. So with 5000X it's a bit of lottery.

But 2000X+ is straightforward. There cannot be different board versions for different bandwidths. Only different revisions of mainboard as product progresses trough it's lifecycle.

mes amitiés,
Sinisa
 
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Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1274 on: June 04, 2020, 10:51:29 am »
Confirmed by a sweep test?

first link, sweep original 2104X:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2964500/#msg2964500

second link, sweep with 500Mhz hack (show 2354X in the system info):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2965752/#msg2965752

Very nice thank you.
I don't see how a 2504X could be better.

It can't and isn't.
It's just that there must always be people who will start with " But are you really sure it is the same? " game...
Every single time.. Despite all being explained in detail...


It is simple. 500 MHz option is being sold as after sales, user installable software option. You enter license and it unlocks scope (any SDS2000x+) to a fully featured , CALIBRATED 500 MHz version.  That means every single one was calibrated and tested to 500 MHz version standards, and then by software configuration it was delegated what bandwidth it will have.

So you activate license for 500 MHz, you get 500 MHz version. Period. How you activated license doesn't matter.

I'm not sure why you tell that to me, I also have some devices that have been tv84ed.
I have no doubt that most of their ( and other manufacturer ) device share the exact same hardware, all calibrated to support the highest bandwidth.
As 0xdeadbeef points out to you, there are still unknowns on the SDS5000X that could apply to the SDS2000X Plus.
There are differences in the silkscreen, maybe there are also on some passives values ?
In the previous SDS2000X, there were additional capacitors to limit bandwidth so Siglent masters the concept  ;D

It wasn't addressed to you. It was more like continuation to your statement...
There are not unknowns. There was 2 versions of 5000X mainboard, but only one on 2000X+.
There cannot be difference in hardware in 2000X+ because all versions are software upgradeable to 500 MHz by user from the day one.
Only thing that is speculative is whether they stopped producing two versions of 5000X, which is logical to me that they did stop it and have only one version now for 5000X too.  That is not 100% verified though. And also, you can also get older version from somebody's stock. So with 5000X it's a bit of lottery.

But 2000X+ is straightforward. There cannot be different board versions for different bandwidths. Only different revisions of mainboard as product progresses trough it's lifecycle.

mes amitiés,
Sinisa

I think we can't buy the 500Mhz license for a 2104X+ or 2204X+.
But it's probably just marketing.

How can you be sure there is only one HW version? You may have info from the inside (I'm not asking you to reveal it, just know if you have info that ordinary people don't have).
I tick a little bit about the differences on the silkscreen. Maybe there are other less obvious differences but it's not really that important.
KeBeNe's screenshot speaks for itself.

And it will only take a few minutes for tv84 to find the problem in the software side.
 


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