Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 732747 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 26896
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1575 on: July 12, 2020, 10:18:37 pm »
Either way the bottom line is that waveforms/s & segments/s are rather meaningless numbers. A way more interesting number is the worst case trigger dead-time because that tells you how fast an oscilloscope can start a new acquisition after the previous acquisition finishes.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
The following users thanked this post: egonotto, 2N3055, thinkfat

Online tautechTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28335
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1576 on: July 13, 2020, 01:38:20 am »
I was saying the same for a long time, nobody paid attention. 
I did and left it to you to work on it to find out for yourself but you gave up and just called the datasheet spec BS.  ::)
Now you have further info to work with maybe you can better see there are modes in DSO's that work better for some defined needs.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
The following users thanked this post: Moris

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1722
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1577 on: July 13, 2020, 02:36:44 am »
I was saying the same for a long time, nobody paid attention. 
I did and left it to you to work on it to find out for yourself but you gave up and just called the datasheet spec BS.  ::)
Now you have further info to work with maybe you can better see there are modes in DSO's that work better for some defined needs.
If you get 120,000wfm/s with only one setting, it is datasheet marketing BS.
 

Offline rf-loop

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4091
  • Country: fi
  • Born in Finland with DLL21 in hand
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1578 on: July 13, 2020, 04:09:24 am »
I was saying the same for a long time, nobody paid attention. 
I did and left it to you to work on it to find out for yourself but you gave up and just called the datasheet spec BS.  ::)
Now you have further info to work with maybe you can better see there are modes in DSO's that work better for some defined needs.
If you get 120,000wfm/s with only one setting, it is datasheet marketing BS.

http://m.eet.com/media/1122087/c0906edited.pdf


Why not ask this BS also from Keysight or Tektronix or Teledyne LeCroy or...





It is much more complex thing to specify in data sheets, there is many variables.

Look Keysight oscilloscopes data sheets and tell us what all there is about wfm update rate.

Of course user settings affect. More or less and this is why some manyfacturers are more honest that some others. Think twice  who is less and who is more honest in this case.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 04:19:15 am by rf-loop »
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Offline boggis the cat

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Country: nz
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1579 on: July 13, 2020, 04:16:38 am »
If you get 120,000wfm/s with only one setting, it is datasheet marketing BS.

Every manufacturer does this.  How else would you have them specify such functions?

From Siglent's page for this instrument (https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000xp/):
• Waveform capture rates up to 120,000 wfm/s (normal mode) and 500,000 wfm/s (sequence mode)

It does state "up to".   :-//
 

Offline boggis the cat

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Country: nz
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1580 on: July 13, 2020, 04:21:08 am »
But Siglent have learnt from this and the SDS6kX Pro does better with 4 USB ports, 2 front, 2 rear but we won't see these models in the west for a while yet.  :(




Looks very reminiscent of Japanese 'scope designs a few decades back.  They were pretty wild to work with – everything was done differently.   :(

Hopefully not copying that 'unique' UI experience...
 

Online tautechTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28335
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1581 on: July 13, 2020, 08:26:13 am »
Looks very reminiscent of Japanese 'scope designs a few decades back.  They were pretty wild to work with – everything was done differently.   :(

Hopefully not copying that 'unique' UI experience...
We know zip about the 6kX Pro other than what it looks like and a little that can be gleaned from a Chinese datasheet however at a glance it appears to use the same GUI as existing SDS5kX and SDS2kX Plus models which themselves are a recent GUI adventure for Siglent that seems fairly well received.
~4 years back the GUI you have in your SDS1202X-E was released in the SDS2000 (before 2000X) along with the memory management strategy used in LeCroy and Pico.
Things are done 'differently' as you put it for good reason these days just as the little X-E you use is vastly different to the HP you use at work.  ;)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline Elasia

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 726
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1582 on: July 13, 2020, 09:54:07 am »
Looks very reminiscent of Japanese 'scope designs a few decades back.  They were pretty wild to work with – everything was done differently.   :(

Hopefully not copying that 'unique' UI experience...
We know zip about the 6kX Pro other than what it looks like and a little that can be gleaned from a Chinese datasheet however at a glance it appears to use the same GUI as existing SDS5kX and SDS2kX Plus models which themselves are a recent GUI adventure for Siglent that seems fairly well received.
~4 years back the GUI you have in your SDS1202X-E was released in the SDS2000 (before 2000X) along with the memory management strategy used in LeCroy and Pico.
Things are done 'differently' as you put it for good reason these days just as the little X-E you use is vastly different to the HP you use at work.  ;)

Its just lecroys menu system no?  Maybe new to siglent but not to market.. I welcome our lecroy ip overlords :p
 

Offline Martin72

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5796
  • Country: de
  • Testfield Technician
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1583 on: July 13, 2020, 01:26:18 pm »
If you get 120,000wfm/s with only one setting, it is datasheet marketing BS.

You can´t expect to have it all times, but I´ve expected to measure it at last one time and close to the values of the datasheet.

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1722
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1584 on: July 13, 2020, 06:51:03 pm »
I was saying the same for a long time, nobody paid attention. 
I did and left it to you to work on it to find out for yourself but you gave up and just called the datasheet spec BS.  ::)
Now you have further info to work with maybe you can better see there are modes in DSO's that work better for some defined needs.
If you get 120,000wfm/s with only one setting, it is datasheet marketing BS.

http://m.eet.com/media/1122087/c0906edited.pdf


Why not ask this BS also from Keysight or Tektronix or Teledyne LeCroy or...





It is much more complex thing to specify in data sheets, there is many variables.

Look Keysight oscilloscopes data sheets and tell us what all there is about wfm update rate.

Of course user settings affect. More or less and this is why some manyfacturers are more honest that some others. Think twice  who is less and who is more honest in this case.
I turned on a KS 1200 series scope, set trigger out to BNC, then measured 200,000wfm/s, it is that simple
 

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1722
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1585 on: July 13, 2020, 06:56:29 pm »
I sold my SDS2000X plus, but somebody with the unit should investigate the dead time between the pulse of triggers, either to do measurement or other tasks.  It is something that you can notice simply by looking at the screen... there is a consistent pause between refreshes, like 2HZ
 

Offline Martin72

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5796
  • Country: de
  • Testfield Technician
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1586 on: July 13, 2020, 08:18:50 pm »
Didn´t got a second scope to do that, but ordered now a cheap usb scope for it (after this, I´ll send it return).

Offline maginnovision

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1963
  • Country: us
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1587 on: July 13, 2020, 11:12:11 pm »
Only one scope?  :-//
 

Offline Johnny B Good

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 811
  • Country: gb
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1588 on: July 14, 2020, 01:12:17 am »
Hi John,

thanks for your reply. I think it is better to have the Signal Generator discussion on the other board.
I explained there my decision to stop my Feeltec FG improvement efforts and to buy a (for me) affordable better working device.

As mentioned by others (thanks!) the SDG2042 can (as the SDS2104X+ into a 2504X+) be "improved" into a SDG2122.
There is a helpful EEVBLOG-board for the SDG.

And welcome in the club of "business travelers" as you named me some weeks ago with regards to my decision for the SDS2104x+  :-DD
Beside all the cool technical specs I really love the mouse control since my SDS is on my workbench behind the DUT and all the cabling stuff and tools and so on.
And the mouse can be on the right side of my working area.

 Hello Bad_Driver, and thank you for that welcome.  :)

 I am now happy to report that the SDS2104X+ I'd ordered from Telonic last week arrived this Monday morning. The only item missing from the box being the calibration certificate. I'll contact them tomorrow to let them know and see what their response is.

 I know it is only a piece of paper but it does offer reassurance that the 'scope has been through a factory calibration process. Siglent are famous for providing calibration certificates on all their T&M kit so it's an unusual oversight on their part in this instance.

 Other than that, everything else was present and correct. The four PP215 probes which I eventually ran a detailed check on some 15 hours after taking delivery when I remembered to thoroughly check every conceivable hiding place for the missing certificate, including the probe packs (leave no stone unturned and all that) were all complete but I did notice a small change of detail compared to the pair of PP215 probes I'd received with the SDS1202X-E. They seem to have decided to do away with the plastic collet that supports the clip on ground fly-lead, leaving a curious gap normally filled by this support collet. All four probes were the same so I have to suppose it was deemed more a hindrance than an aid and simply removed from the BOM.

 The plastic wrapping around the scope itself seemed not to have been disturbed as did the box of accessories since it still contained a euro plug ended C13 mains lead along with the A to B usb lead. Presumably Telonic Instruments had simply opened the box to drop a UK C13 mains lead inside to satisfy UK regulatory requirements.

 I swapped out my trusty SDS1202X-E (which looks like a toy by comparison) for the SDS2104X+ and connected the two gpsdos and the FY6600's 10MHz Sinc pulse signal to monitor the difference in their phase shifting behaviour in response to the varying electron density of the ionosphere due to the mark 1's use of a 500s TC and the mark 2's 5000s TC relative to a fixed 10MHz reference. My toy AWG has a nice CQE 10MHz OCXO driving a 3N501 clock multiplier to replace the original dirt cheap 50MHz 20ppm SMD XO it had been cursed with. I'm using it as a cheap alternative to a rubidium DOCXO frequency standard with a more deterministic drift behaviour than a budget GPSDO can offer.

 With the two channel 'scope, I could only display the GPSDO outputs leaving the external trigger source from the AWG an invisible entity. Now that I have a four channel 'scope, it makes a pleasant change to be able to better visualise the trigger signal. I've attached some screen shots spaced a few minutes apart (the RTC date time stamping wasn't a feature of the 1202 so it's a nice and much welcomed touch).

 I haven't run any extensive tests but so far, my experience has been all good and I'm quite impressed by the various design choices such as for example, the use of recessed "Auto setup" and "Default" buttons to minimise the risk of accidental operation (at first glance they looked like they may have been damaged and stuck in the pressed in state but a closer look revealed their true nature soon enough).

 Regarding the choice between getting an SDG1032X or the more upmarket SDG2042X, it would be a no brainer choice if Siglent hadn't in their infinite wisdumb decided to drop the the low jitter full BW square wave feature of the SDG 1000X series :( >:( :wtf: |O

 I'm going to give this some consideration but I rather think I'll go for the cheaper SDG1032 on the basis that, as a hobbyist, it's best not over investing in future requirements you may only need in five years time when the price of your nice investment may well have halved. Now that I've gotten a taste for higher quality test equipment, I won't be waiting to finish polishing the Feeltech turd to perfection before buying one or the other of Siglent's finest - I've rather changed my mind over that initial statement.  ::)

JBG

PS CH1 is the MK II unfiltered square wave output, CH2 is the 10MHz Sinc pulse (which needs to be recalibrated using the 2GT effect on the AWG's OCXO) and CH4 (chosen for convenience of connection) is the sine wave output from the MK I gpsdo. When I manage to get the AWG trimmed within a a few ppt, you can see the GPSDO waveforms dancing an unco-ordinated slow motion jig either side of the Sinc pulse trace. It looks more obvious when you watch a 1 hour movie played back at 32 times speed.  :)
John
 

Offline noreply

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 276
  • Country: gb
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1589 on: July 14, 2020, 01:25:20 am »
Nice  :-+

You mentioned you have a GPSDO

Can you share some information / pics on the unit you have?

I just ordered (Snail Mail) this device from Amazon ...

Any comments / feedback welcomed (don't be too harsh, as its already been dispatched)

 

Online tautechTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28335
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1590 on: July 14, 2020, 02:15:51 am »
The only item missing from the box being the calibration certificate. I'll contact them tomorrow to let them know and see what their response is.

 I know it is only a piece of paper but it does offer reassurance that the 'scope has been through a factory calibration process. Siglent are famous for providing calibration certificates on all their T&M kit so it's an unusual oversight on their part in this instance.
:-//
Every bit of Siglent gear I get has a traceable Cal cert slid into the Quick Start guide.

Quote
The plastic wrapping around the scope itself seemed not to have been disturbed as did the box of accessories since it still contained a euro plug ended C13 mains lead along with the A to B usb lead. Presumably Telonic Instruments had simply opened the box to drop a UK C13 mains lead inside to satisfy UK regulatory requirements.
I suspect they have.
If Telonic has opened the box maybe they have the Cal cert and if not insist they get one from the factory.....each and ever one is kept in their records.

Edit with a thought, check under the flaps in the bottom of the carton just in case the Cal cert slid in there.

Quote
Regarding the choice between getting an SDG1032X or the more upmarket SDG2042X, it would be a no brainer choice if Siglent hadn't in their infinite wisdumb decided to drop the the low jitter full BW square wave feature of the SDG 1000X series :( >:( :wtf: |O
Where did you read/hear that ?
Website specs are the same as always been.   :-//
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 02:19:48 am by tautech »
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
The following users thanked this post: Johnny B Good

Offline Martin72

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5796
  • Country: de
  • Testfield Technician
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1591 on: July 14, 2020, 08:43:04 pm »
If you get 120,000wfm/s with only one setting, it is datasheet marketing BS.

You can´t expect to have it all times, but I´ve expected to measure it at last one time and close to the values of the datasheet.

After several conversation with the support, I can indeed measure 120000wfs/s and a little bit more.
Tomorrow the usb scope will arrive, so I can test the sequence mode also.
The settings I´ve used on the rigol couldn´t be used on the siglent.

Offline Martin72

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5796
  • Country: de
  • Testfield Technician
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1592 on: July 14, 2020, 10:07:21 pm »
Quote
I can indeed measure 120000wfs/s and a little bit more.

 
The following users thanked this post: tautech, 2N3055, Johnny B Good

Offline Johnny B Good

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 811
  • Country: gb
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1593 on: July 15, 2020, 04:17:45 am »
Nice  :-+

You mentioned you have a GPSDO

Can you share some information / pics on the unit you have?

I just ordered (Snail Mail) this device from Amazon ...

Any comments / feedback welcomed (don't be too harsh, as its already been dispatched)

 I have two GPSDOs, both homebrewed units based on a basic hardware PLL configuration similar to Gyro's design shown here:
 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/my-u-blox-lea-6t-based-gpsdo-(very-scruffy-initial-breadboard-stage)/msg1493431/#msg1493431

 In fact my initial solderless breadboard builds were almost exactly that circuit but using an M8N module in place of the LEA 6T and without the cmos RRO buffer amp - the filtered PLL output simply went direct to the VFC pin on my CQE 13 and 10MHz OCXOs.

 When it came to my first attempt to build it onto veroboard (stripboard), I'd decided to make full use of the 5v cmos rro opamp to allow me the freedom to use much higher resistor values than the 12 and 100 k resistors Gyro had used to get longer time constants than the 38s TC he'd been running with. I tried 100K and 1M (same cap values) but the loop wouldn't converge onto the target tuning voltage so landed up dropping down to 47 and 220 K to tame the instability in my MK I build. I did eventually get it to work using 100K with 1M then upping to 470K and 5.6M with a 10M bias resistor to allow it to settle within about 25mHz of 10MHz in the unlocked state.

 I'd based this MK I version on the "five volt" 13MHz square wave output OCXO which needed an old skool 74193 divide by N counter to divide the doubled up 13MHz (26MHz) down to 2MHz (74HC193s just don't have the jojones to handle such a high input frequency) to feed a 3N501 clock multiplier with this minimum specified input clock frequency to generate the required 10Mz frequency reference.

 All of this extra old skool TTL (74193, 7486 and a, probably unnecessary 7427 triple 3 input nor gate thrown into the mix to even up the 2MHz output pulses from the 74193) along with a couple of 3N501 clock multipliers must have added an extra 100mA of very noisy loading on the Mini 360  5v output buck converter I was using to power the M8N gps rx module,  logic and the OCXO making the use of veroboard a very poor choice indeed for this application.

 Checking the noise and ripple on my well filtered 5v buck converter supply revealed only the TTL power rail noise components, only a very close look at the FFT plots allowed me to spot the almost lost in the noise 1.23MHz switching component on the buck converter's output (and here was I thinking the dc-dc buck converter noise would be an issue ::) :palm: ). I'd included a 5 pole butterworth LPF (Fc of 11.5MHz with an extra inductor across the middle shunt cap to give it a boost at 10MHz) but had to resort to inserting a 10MHz xtal series tuned to reduce the noise and jitter I was seeing on the 10MHz output. The xtal did a good job of sanitising the output of all this TTL noise pollution.

 With all of these issues in mind, I decided it was time to build a MK II version without all of the bad design and layout choices I'd made with that MK I. I'd decided to build essentially the same design but using one of my 10MHz 12v OCXOs to eliminate all the TTL tomfoolery of the MK I, removing four ICs at a stroke, halving the IC count to just three 74HC ICs and one dual 5v cmos rro opamp.

 The veroboard was replaced with a single sided copper clad board with the intention of mounting the ICs 'dead bug' or 'squashed bug' style. However, with such a low IC count, I decided to drill the board to mount the ICs the right way up, chamfering the holes where I didn't need a ground contact and using point to point wiring on the underside of the copper clad board to join everything up.

 It was extra work to build it this way but I do like to be able to see the IC markings and it soon proved useful when it came to replacing the blown 74HC14 that had mysteriously failed a few hours after starting my initial testing in allowing me to fit a dip socket to make any future replacements less of a pain.

 I'd simply had no idea why it had failed until two burnt out rro opamps and one overcooked buck converter later finally revealed my design error in upgrading the 10uF cap between ground and the non-inverting input on the rro opamp to a 47uF without considering the possibility of this cap dumping excessive energy into the opamp's input clamp diodes on switch off (it had been just dumb luck that the MK I hadn't suffered the same fate).

 Simply including a 1k resistor in series with the non-inverting input pin was all it needed to prevent rro opamp number three going the way of its predecessors :palm: I've had no more mystery failures since then (but I did take the precaution of replacing the 1.3A buck converter with its much tougher 3A rated cousin just to avoid any such further embarrassing failures from a less than perfect overload and over temperature 'protection' so amply demonstrated by the original 1.3A module).

 At present, I'm running tests on the MK II sans the LPF filter that will ultimately be installed in the final build (useful at the moment in identifying which 'scope trace is which when comparing the two against my stand in for a Rubidium reference (the FY6600 with its 10MHz OCXO).

 I've attached images of my DIY GPSDOs The first shows the initial stage of the mark one's build from last August. The other four show various angles of view of the mark two as set up on my bench. The layouts are almost identical although the final layout of most of the components of the mark one had yet to be determined at this early stage.

 I don't have any other photos and I don't want to pull it apart just for another photo shoot - sorry! I may follow up in a few weeks time when I reach the stage where the mark two has been completed allowing me to finally retire the mark one and test that "Five Volt" 13MHz OCXO, to destruction if needed, and prove my suspicions as to it being in reality just another 12 volt OCXO.

 The mark one could be powered from any DC voltage within the range of +6.8 to +24 volts and I wanted to retain this feature in the mark two despite the use of a 12v OCXO, hence the additional 5 to 12 boost converter module that can be most clearly seen in the last image.

 Working from back to front, that yellow blob upstream of the DC jack socket is a 480uH common mode choke to block any common mode noise conducted from a wallwart. Next is the mini 360 3A buck converter configured to output 5.3v which goes towards the front edge via a 6 element LPF. The 5 to 12v boost converter is mounted at right angles, taking its feed directly from the buck converter's output and passing its 12 output to the OCXO via that 3 turn ferrite inductor (20uH) in the corner formed by the two converter boards.

 The use of copper clad board should maximise the efficacy of the LPF components and in spite of the extra dc-dc converter to power the OCXO from the 5v buck converter, the whole unit takes about half a watt less than its predecessor, thanks largely due to the elimination of all the TTL jiggery pokery of converting the 13MHz output from the "Five Volt" OCXO into a 10MHz signal (warmed up both OCXOs consume the same power - just at different voltage levels). The mark one consumed 1.8W off its DC power source (7 to 24 volt range)  whilst this mark two version only consumes around 1.3W (yet to be more precisely measured) a drop from 2.7W down to just 2W of mains voltage power consumed by the 12v wallwart supply.

 The major shortcoming of such a basic design of GPSDO is in my choice of cheap navigation M8N gps receiver modules. I'm awaiting delivery of a NEO M8T timing module from a Chinese seller on Amazon with the expected delivery being the beginning of August. Hopefully, this will reduce the ionospheric effects on timing accuracy to a more acceptable level if the performance achieved with the old Jupiter T gps modules using a similar hardware only PLL is anything to go by. As they say, "Only time will tell."  ::)

 As for the BG7TBL GPSDO you've ordered, the last I heard about them, afaicr, was that they'd either been programmed as an FLL with a slight offset error of 15mHz or else there had been a bug in the mathematical algorithm used to PLL discipline the OCXO. That was over a year ago when my resolve to build my own gpsdo was beginning to crumble and I'd started searching for a reasonably priced "Readymade". The issue may now be sorted. Others may have more recent information to offer on this subject.

 Whenever I'm looking for anything like this, I always do as much internet research as I can before spending any non-trivial amounts of cash. What renewed my resolve to DIY was largely due to the high price compared to what could be achieved by DIY with well chosen components. The problem in this case was the stupidly high pricing of gps timing receiver modules. Even the Pixhawk boys have cottoned onto the value of the ancient LEA T6 modules that had inexplicably been used in the older Pixhawk drone navigation modules, adding a 100 quid premium onto a 20 quid M8N based Pixhawk which can perform better than the LEA 6T in this navigation centric role.

 This NEO M8T I'd tracked down on Amazon was a snip at only 41 quid delivered. If it does prove to be exactly as described, I'll order a second one at that price, assuming the seller has any left to sell by then. GPS timing module bargains seem to be as rare as Unicorn droppings these days, hence my "jumping" at this chance of a reasonably priced M8T. Fingers crossed that it's the real deal.

JBG
John
 

Online tautechTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28335
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1594 on: July 15, 2020, 10:09:58 am »
Deskew PCB Version C and other many other TE goodies finally received today.  :phew:

First job was very gently Dremel the edge of the 1 turn current loop to allow fitment of a Tek P6021 current probe as they have just a 3.6mm cable capacity whereas the DF2001A deskew PCB has ~4mm current loop and ~0.5mm of PCB wider again.
P6022 is smaller again, only allowing for 2.75mm cable diameter.  :o
Not sure I'll narrow the current loop more but instead break the loop at the 49  \$\Omega\$ paralleled resistors and solder in a lose wire with its own resistors. Hmmm, better ideas anyone ?

Anyways, checking one of my P6021's in 2mA/mV setting on the 147mA loop with SDS1104X-E.


« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 04:40:12 am by tautech »
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline noreply

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 276
  • Country: gb
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1595 on: July 15, 2020, 12:47:43 pm »
Nice  :-+

You mentioned you have a GPSDO

Can you share some information / pics on the unit you have?

I just ordered (Snail Mail) this device from Amazon ...

Any comments / feedback welcomed (don't be too harsh, as its already been dispatched)

 
 As for the BG7TBL GPSDO you've ordered, the last I heard about them, afaicr, was that they'd either been programmed as an FLL with a slight offset error of 15mHz or else there had been a bug in the mathematical algorithm used to PLL discipline the OCXO. That was over a year ago when my resolve to build my own gpsdo was beginning to crumble and I'd started searching for a reasonably priced "Readymade". The issue may now be sorted. Others may have more recent information to offer on this subject.



Thanks for your detailed feedback  :)

Yes, you are correct - need to do considerable research before - I think from what I have recently seen on the BG7TBL GPSDO - it should perform reasonably well - as long as there is a good GPS signal.

I have also gone down the 'rubidium' rabbit hole - some time ago you could pick up a FE-5680A for about GBP25 - (Dave did a teardown) - but today they are more scarce and prices for reasonable condition units are as high as $200

I am still keeping an 'eye' out for the FE-5680A, for GBP25 - I would love to have an opportunity to experiment.
 

Offline Vestom

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 50
  • Country: dk
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1596 on: July 15, 2020, 06:25:09 pm »
Hi,

I have always wanted to have a reasonably good scope at home, but could not really justify the cost of e.g. having my own Tek or Keysight scope. However, the SDS2000XP looks interesting and within reach for my private "equipment budget"  ;)

However, it also looks like the accessories are comparatively expensive?! Does anyone have any experience with the €138 bag? Is it really worth it? What about the logic analyzer probes? Is it possible to make a passive adapter for the scope LA connector?

Any recommendation for which distributor to use for sale to Denmark? (Likely a German one)

Thanks!
 

Offline Martin72

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5796
  • Country: de
  • Testfield Technician
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1597 on: July 15, 2020, 07:31:27 pm »
Tomorrow the usb scope will arrive, so I can test the sequence mode also.

It does arrive.
Boy....this thing was really pain in the arse the triggering concerns  :palm:
I want to make a table of different timebases - But not with THIS one....(Hantek USB Scope).

Nevertheless I can confirm the updaterate in sequential mode.  ;)



Measure again the normal mode, it´s more than the counter did measure:



Deadtime of normal mode:



As I told, I want to make wfms/s table, but will this doing with another scope - this hantek crap will be return to sender quickly.. :P

Online tautechTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28335
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1598 on: July 15, 2020, 09:10:12 pm »
Hi,

I have always wanted to have a reasonably good scope at home, but could not really justify the cost of e.g. having my own Tek or Keysight scope. However, the SDS2000XP looks interesting and within reach for my private "equipment budget"  ;)
Welcome to the forum.

Quote
However, it also looks like the accessories are comparatively expensive?!
Not compared to some other brands.  :scared:

Quote
Does anyone have any experience with the €138 bag? Is it really worth it?
Yes I store and travel all my demo models in them and IMO they provide good protection although as you say they are not very cheap.  :(
I asked the factory if we could get the Pelican hard case that Siglent NA offer but it's specific to the US market:
https://siglentna.com/product/hard-shell-carry-case/

Quote
What about the logic analyzer probes? Is it possible to make a passive adapter for the scope LA connector?
The scope LA port is PCI-e but finding a deep reach plug and the nice flex cable is not easy as I had a good look for some a little while back.
I think member TK has some LA cables from another brand that will fit and these are mentioned and offered earlier in this thread.
Quote
Any recommendation for which distributor to use for sale to Denmark? (Likely a German one)
Other buyers here have got small discounts and posted about it, again earlier in this thread.
All the EU dealers are listed here:
https://www.siglenteu.com/how-to-buy/

Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
The following users thanked this post: Vestom

Offline Johnny B Good

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 811
  • Country: gb
Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1599 on: July 16, 2020, 04:42:15 am »
@noreply

My pleasure but I did rather get carried away on an off topic tangent even if it does tenuously relate to one use of the SDS2000X Plus.  ::)

 That M8T module I mentioned, dropped through my letterbox later that morning (yesterday as I type this snippet of news) and I've spent pretty well most of Wednesday (and a bit of Thursday) struggling with Lord Murphy's booby traps. It came attached to an active ceramic patch antenna (23mm by 23mm attached with a 2cm IPEX ended flylead) so I swapped it onto the MK II's FTDI serial to usb converter to check it over. LH reports that its a ublox timing module with FW3.1 firmware but as usual, LH shuts off the power to the active antenna resulting in very low C/N reports.

 Further testing with ucentre indicates that the time mode 2 option is actually functioning (unlike when you try this with the M8N modules where there is a half suggestion that they're responding to the time mode 2 commands but with no material advantage being gained).

 I'm currently running a survey in operation (set for 10 hours minimum rather than the recommended 24). With luck it might complete by midday (or maybe an hour later at high noon). I'd have started the survey in earlier but as I mentioned, Murphy decided to enforce his law to the maximum in thwarting my planned testing.

 The initial setup using the supplied patch antenna gave quite impressive results, it was only when I tried connecting it to the external antenna to see what it was really capable of that I ran into trouble, getting very peculiar results indeed (satellites revealing their existence - elevation and azimuth angles - but no signal strength hence no gps locked PPS output.

 In hindsight the temporary wedging of the edge connected SMA socket mustn't have been making a good enough contact for the antenna to draw sufficient current to activate its LNA, effectively preventing the module from seeing any signals at all. However, Murphy threw me yet another curve ball by unfathomably killing the FTDI232 so I was then dealing with two issues compounded shortly after that when I resorted to using the prolific usb to rs232 converter with the third issue of that damned MS Ballpoint serial mouse being invoked to crash the virtual winXP machine I use to run windows only software such as u-blox's ucentre.

 I then spent another hour or two reading in an MS victims' forum all about this now twenty year old issue in all versions of windows to date whereby a large proportion of usb connected GPS units get hit by this nonsense, eventually to discover a simple utility to suppress the appearance of this damned ballpoint mouse. Only then did I discover this apparent dislike for nice fat GPS signal levels by the M8T, proved by reconnecting it to the supplied active patch antenna which allowed it to finally start showing signal strength bars, blue at first before ten to twenty minutes later they started turning green and the PPS led went from blinking at  4Hz 50% duty cycle to a 1Hz 10% duty blink rate (no point at this stage to program the 100KHz 50% duty square wave required in the final configuration).

 The idea that a good quality signal could overload the front end to the extent of completely blocking all reception just seemed totally nutty to me. Luckily, I had a suitable SMA flylead with iPEX connector to swap for the patch antenna to retest with the external antenna, proving that there had been an issue with the temporarily pushed on SMA edge connector socket (I hadn't wanted to contaminate the module with solder before verifying that it was functioning properly - I'd even used spring test clips to connect to the 4 holes where the typical 4 or 5 pin header is normally soldered for the power and serial interface).

 The upshot of my "quick test" is that I'm now out one FTDI232 adapter  :( >:( . Ah well, it could have been worse, at one point I thought I'd somehow managed to zap the front end of the M8T module, luckily it was just a lousy contact with that pushed on edge connected SMA socket.

 I've just put an order in to BangGood for a pack of five FTDI adapters from their UK warehouse. Slightly dearer than the Chinese warehouse price but that had a £1.59 BangGood express delivery charge slapped on and I couldn't redeem my BangGood points on account of it being a 'promo' item. Ordering from the UK warehouse saved the postage cost and not being a 'promo' item in this case, allowed me to redeem my points which shaved off a few pennies and a couple of weeks delivery time. >:D

 The last (and the first) FTDI adapters I'd bought off Ebay had both cost 3 quid delivered. I was disappointed to find that I'd only ordered just the one last month specifically to build the MK II rather buy a few. They're the sort of item that's best regarded as "A Consumable" (at least in my hands which seem so craftily directed by Murphy to remind me that I'm not infallible after all!  :palm: ).

 I suspect those funky connections to the serial port on the gps module may have caused the fatal damage to the FTDI adapter. As soon as the current lashup with the prolific adapter has served its purpose in allowing me to complete a survey in run, I'll solder a proper header onto the module to minimise the risk of any further 'accident's. :palm:

 I've got a little more testing to do before I start placing any more orders for a spare M8T module (or two).

 As for the missing calibration certificate, I still haven't had any reply from Telonic on the matter. I'll let it stew for another day or two before pressing them for an answer. As Tautec said (tnx btw) there's no excuse for withholding this piece of documentation from the end customer.

 In the meantime, it looks like I'll be 'borrowing' the other FTDI module from the MK I to let me continue testing the MK II with that M8T module. The "stewing time" will simply fly by.  ::)

JBG
John
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf