Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 131396 times)

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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1800 on: August 14, 2020, 08:46:44 pm »

Only that issue was fixed ?  :-//
None of the other bugs ?

Maybe ist was a really bad ass thing and they wanted to pull it out as soon as possible.

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1801 on: August 14, 2020, 08:54:12 pm »

If I am to draw any conclusions in my comparison between the MSO5000 way and the SDS2000X Plus way, I have been very surprised and impressed about the quality of the firmware from the Siglent, it far surpassed my expectations, but then I’d been in tears over the Rigol for a couple of days earlier.


I'm not a software type (retired IC designer), but due to an accident I got a 1st hand review of the SDS2102X Plus hardware and equally impressed.

Thanks for the comparison video, nicely done!!

Best,
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1802 on: August 14, 2020, 08:57:46 pm »

Only that issue was fixed ?  :-//
None of the other bugs ?

Maybe ist was a really bad ass thing and they wanted to pull it out as soon as possible.
It was and a recovery package had to be made quickly for it that sidestepped the early FW and installed a later version but that was some months ago.

What else has changed is more important...at least to me.  :popcorn:
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1803 on: August 14, 2020, 09:01:25 pm »
Well,at the forthcoming weekend I´ll install it and check it out...
(First guess : the info-boxes could be modified ( shows again DC/AC instead of only D oder A...As you remember, a user here got a beta-version and you could saw this)

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1804 on: August 15, 2020, 08:07:36 pm »
Quote
First guess : the info-boxes could be modified ( shows again DC/AC instead of only D oder A..

Yepp:

[attachimg=1]

Quick test if other things would be modified : For example, AWG settings will still be lost after reboot/shutdown.

Edit: picture upload still sucks....
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 08:09:25 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline cardre

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1805 on: August 16, 2020, 04:46:57 am »
Is it a hardware issue with channel 4 on my scope? Or is this something that needs to be fixed with a firmware update to correct the self calibration function for channel 4?

Be interested if others could try it on their scopes with channel 4 in the 500uV scale and see if they notice the same issue.

Just further to this...

My scope was delivered with 5.0.1.3.5R5, I've just upgraded it to the latest (at this time) 5.0.1.3.5R10.

I've redone the self calibration and now it is showing what I think is acceptable values for a 500uV scale, see attached.

So as I couldn't get it any where near this after several self calibrations, specifically being an issue for channel 4, it looks like the latest R10 version has corrected my vertical offset issue!

EDIT: its still more out with 50 Ohm termination compared to 1M Ohm, but not as bad as before.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 04:48:40 am by cardre »
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1806 on: August 16, 2020, 11:16:45 am »
Hi,

Quote
specifically being an issue for channel 4

I don´t think so, because I´m just test your settings and here is channel 1 the "bad" .  ;)
Didn´t calibrate it after firmware update, do this later and post the result.

Offline cardre

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1807 on: August 16, 2020, 11:22:30 am »
I don´t think so, because I´m just test your settings and here is channel 1 the "bad" .  ;)
Didn´t calibrate it after firmware update, do this later and post the result.

Hmm ok, interesting you're seeing it in channel 1 instead.

I believe you should always run a self calibration though after doing a firmware update? (after at least 20 min warm up?)
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1808 on: August 16, 2020, 11:45:17 am »
Yes.
Did the upgrade last evening, today I´ll let it calibrate.

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1809 on: August 16, 2020, 03:19:56 pm »
Did it, after warming up for 30min.

Looks good so far ( I´m still too dumb for the measure menu...or it´s indeed buggy).
Edit: Ah, don´t saw it that you´re using the 10bit mode..
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 03:21:45 pm by Martin72 »
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1810 on: August 16, 2020, 03:37:37 pm »
Same, but in 10bit....
And thank god, I´m not too dumb for the measure, it´s a bug.  ;)
 
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Online jemangedeslolos

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1811 on: August 17, 2020, 02:35:19 pm »
Hello,

I have a very specific question for you guys.
Do you know how if the trigger if this little 2000X Plus works well on analog video signals ?
I'm looking for trigger on a specific line of a slightly noisy PAL video signal ( and not a perfect noise free ).

rock stable or not ?
 

Online DL2XY

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1812 on: August 17, 2020, 07:43:42 pm »
Sorry to say but not really.

First there is no clamping, you have to use a clamping diode in ac-coupled signals to get a stable trigger level.

The preset PAL does not work at all (no sync).

In custom setting with PAL parameters it works, but fields are not distinguished.
You can trigger on a specific line but you will get alternating contend of the two interlaced subframes.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1813 on: August 18, 2020, 04:17:00 am »
Hello,

I have a very specific question for you guys.
Do you know how if the trigger if this little 2000X Plus works well on analog video signals ?
I'm looking for trigger on a specific line of a slightly noisy PAL video signal ( and not a perfect noise free ).

rock stable or not ?
I imagine it should be easy peasy !

You have 2 Zone triggers you can edit and place anywhere you like.
While I didn't have a PAL signal available the SPO signal from an STB3 is a bitch to get rock solid triggering on and while lengthening Holdoff allows you to trigger on a burst it triggers on any burst of course.

Here I stopped the scope twice to set each zone and after setting Zone 2 triggering was a solid as a rock.
H Pos allowed taking the trigger point and zones off the display to inspect each burst.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 07:34:24 am by tautech »
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Offline Vestom

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1814 on: August 18, 2020, 06:07:19 pm »
Sorry to say but not really.

First there is no clamping, you have to use a clamping diode in ac-coupled signals to get a stable trigger level.

The preset PAL does not work at all (no sync).

In custom setting with PAL parameters it works, but fields are not distinguished.
You can trigger on a specific line but you will get alternating contend of the two interlaced subframes.
Well, I had to try it out, and managed to find a camera with composite out  ;D

The preset PAL worked fine for me and I can select what line 1-313 to trig on. Also a diode can easily be added in a BNC-T - no big deal for something as specialized as this. Also it was nice to able to capture ~5 fields at full 2GS/s and be able to zoom in  8)

However this did NOT work for me and likely bugs:
  • Field selection does not work. No matter the setting it trigs on both fields. Changing the field only offsets trigger point 1 field left/right. Also at one point the field setting actually froze for me and I had to reboot the scope to get it back. I could trig on a specific field by adding a zone - but that defeats the line selection and idea of having video trig!
  • Line 1 trigs on the first short sync pulse in the last lines in a field - not on the wide field-sync pulse as defined. So line 4 must be selected to trig on line 1... (minor issue)

So as other features of this otherwise great scope, video trig is "not quite there"... (yet?)  :-//
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 06:30:19 pm by Vestom »
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1815 on: August 18, 2020, 06:31:14 pm »
I can't understand why video trigger wouldn't work right off the bat!  :palm:

It's one of the most stable things, perfectly understood...

If it's not a PEBCAK it's incredible how in this day and age Siglent has a problem of this type in it's flagship scope line.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1816 on: August 18, 2020, 08:05:52 pm »
The camera does output an interlaced signal, not progressive-scan cvbs?
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Offline Vestom

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1817 on: August 18, 2020, 10:04:30 pm »
The camera does output an interlaced signal, not progressive-scan cvbs?
Yes, it is a PAL camera. Also the blanking period visibly alternates between even and odd sync sequences. Apparently, I am not the only one experiencing it: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-bugs-missing-features-feature-requests/msg3094348/#msg3094348

Edit: Attached a shot with a sequence of two captures showing trig on both odd and even fields. Also notice the trigger point is at last hsync before the blanking interval. I would have expected the wide vblank pulses to be the synchronization point for line 1. But I must confess television repair is not my specialty ;)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 10:39:54 pm by Vestom »
 

Offline milek7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1818 on: August 19, 2020, 01:57:26 pm »
SDS2104X Plus arrived yesterday, here's my first impressions: (note that I didn't have any real standalone oscilloscope before, so I'm lacking in comparison points with other scopes)

Quite disappointed when first powering up, there's rather loud fan. I didn't expect it to be anywhere that loud.

Not so surprising because I could see that on reviews, but knobs are rather poor. Almost each one feels slightly different, rotating slightly off-center. I'm not really sure if there's some velocity control algorithm, but the effect is the faster you turn the knob... the slower it changes value. It would be infuriating to use but touchscreen rescues it, so you can at least click/drag/enter value instead of fiddling with these non-indented knobs. (indented H/V coarse knobs work OK)

Changing timebase and vertical scale is reasonably responsive (it's not totally immediate, but it's fine). For some reason waveform updating stops when changing H/V offsets, but I guess this is intentional? (I don't really get why changing offset register would require stopping waveform)
There's only Normal and Peak acquisition modes, no Eres or Average. (these are in Math, but more on that later)

Of course there is no zoom-out capability at the cost of History feature. Which is not necessarily bad, but they really should add configurable setting like 'capture X% outside screen area' to split memory between zoom-out area and history captures to get best of both worlds.

Note that AWG in datasheet is "up to 50MHz", but this is only for sine, square is limited to 5MHz10MHz.
Not tested extensively but Bode plot seems to work. Feels slow but I don't have any other instrument to compare to. UI during Bode operation is nearly unresponsive, so not possible to change display settings when it is doing its thing.

There are few Chinese-type software quirks, but nothing really annoying. (like, what's easiest way to lock up scope? Press Touch button and then Auto Setup ...) (or, it already struggles with fillrate on drawing UI on that screen, but open/close for side menu is animated.. WHY)

And going to Math functions, they are just.. slow. Really slow. It's performance is directly dependent on configured memory depth, and I'm not quite sure why (this thing have 1024px wide screen, not HD by any stretch, so why it keeps processing over whole capture memory, only to throw it away for display on this lowres screen?) At higher memory depths it takes multiple seconds to just do single update of simplest functions (like channel subtraction).

Missed big opportunity with mouse support, measure tool with mouse rectangle selection would be great. (you just have to grab measure lines individually and drag it, and it sucks if you accidentally grab waveform instead).

Does anyone had success with using USB WiFi dongles with it? Poking around filesystem I only found driver for rtl8188eu, so I ordered dongle with that chip and I'll see how it goes. Configuring wpa_supplicant manually will work for sure, but maybe there is a way to activate configuration GUI from other Siglent scopes that officially supports wifi?

I can't really recommend it as gaming scope, as it's only achieves around 3fps in Doom. :-DD (this partially explains poor Math performance, and also good performance of normal waveform display, as you can see it is overlaid on screen and completely bypasses scope operating system)

Not necessarily related to this scope, but some comment: I don't get why these entry-level (but not cheapest) scopes don't have proper GPU included. There really isn't Zynq-like chip with Mali GPU? Or even they could slap some cheap mass-produced mobile SoC and link it up with FPGA with PCIe/USB3. Give it a HD screen, proper hardware accelerated UI that gets stable 60fps, maybe even offload all these Math features to compute shaders. But no, we instead end up getting CPU-blitted UI, so that leads to lowres screens, and any feature that have to be fast is hacked around by directly overlaying waveform from FPGA onto screen.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 09:51:46 pm by milek7 »
 
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Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1819 on: August 19, 2020, 02:53:49 pm »
@milek7: very accurate description. It is the same experience I had. This scope has very nice specs, But poorly executed
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1820 on: August 19, 2020, 04:11:21 pm »
Just did a quick test to see the smallest displayable features in X and Y for the new to me SDS2102X Plus. Input was a SDG2042X at 1KHz sine wave a 5mv, scope dc coupled at full BW (upgraded to 350MHz), 500uv/div, 10bit mode, and 50 ohms input termination. Zoom was enabled (maximum) and as you might expect some randomness (noise) in the waveform is observable.

Here's a print screen showing a vertical & horizontal minimum discrete steps. The delta X shows 0.5ns/step and the delta Y shows 8.33uv for minimum discrete step. Think this agrees with the 2GSPS ADC rate and vertical screen resolution (600), 8 and 10bit (oversampled) resolution. The first screen capture shows the Vectors (interpolated) and second shows Dots (actual ADC samples).

The more I play around with this scope the more impressed, very nice scope indeed, well done Siglent :-+

Anyway, hope this helps show the actual scope performance.

Best,

Mike



 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 04:14:25 pm by mawyatt »
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1821 on: August 19, 2020, 04:18:11 pm »

Does anyone had success with using USB WiFi dongles with it? Poking around filesystem I only found driver for rtl8188eu, so I ordered dongle with that chip and I'll see how it goes. Configuring wpa_supplicant manually will work for sure, but maybe there is a way to activate configuration GUI from other Siglent scopes that officially supports wifi?

WiFi for the Plus is unsupported as you are aware however something like this is probably the simplest solution:


Bit more here in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cheap-wifi-for-sds1000x-e/
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Offline milek7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1822 on: August 19, 2020, 04:52:04 pm »
This scope has very nice specs, But poorly executed
Just to clarify, my post might come as negative but I'm generally happy with this scope. There are some issues but from what I read Rigol MSO5k competition is actually worse in UI responsiveness, and perf/$ just isn't there with Keysight.

WiFi for the Plus is unsupported as you are aware however something like this is probably the simplest solution:
Yeah, but this is adding more tangled cables at the back and I would rather avoid that.
 

Offline Vestom

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1823 on: August 19, 2020, 05:01:04 pm »
Here's a print screen showing a vertical & horizontal minimum discrete steps. The delta X shows 0.5ns/step and the delta Y shows 8.33uv for minimum discrete step. Think this agrees with the 2GSPS ADC rate and vertical screen resolution (600), 8 and 10bit (oversampled) resolution. The first screen capture shows the Vectors (interpolated) and second shows Dots (actual ADC samples).

Hi. You write 8.33uV per discrete step and show that the cursors span TWO steps ;D
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1824 on: August 19, 2020, 05:29:12 pm »
WiFi for the Plus is unsupported as you are aware however something like this is probably the simplest solution:
Yeah, but this is adding more tangled cables at the back and I would rather avoid that.
Understood although unlike the SDS5000X models you have just 2 USB-A sockets to work with and as they are both on the front and you'l probably want one for a mouse they run out pretty quick unless you use a USB hub which adds to the clutter you're trying to avoid.
The USB-B rear socket could be repurposed to power the WiFi module which would preserve the 2 front panel USB sockets for other uses.
Anyways, you'll work it out.  :)
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