Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 140738 times)

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Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1850 on: August 20, 2020, 02:48:06 pm »
Here we go again... :palm:

Try to do the same for the same amount of $$$.
HW cost cannot be the problem there. You can buy board with beefy ARM for ~$100, add display for $50, so only $150 (and that's probably overestimating) more for much better display, scaling and UI performance.

I didn't understand your point "A perfect sinewave looks like a stair case" in this context?
It's quite jarring once you have seen it  :-\
But I don't think they can fix it, except by cutting that area like on MSO5k.
Once you see it, it cannot be UNSEEN!  I think it is easy to fix, just show the menu over the waveform, then make it configurable how long the menu stays on screen.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1851 on: August 20, 2020, 05:48:56 pm »
I didn't understand your point "A perfect sinewave looks like a stair case" in this context?
It's quite jarring once you have seen it  :-\
But I don't think they can fix it, except by cutting that area like on MSO5k.

Well, they'd have to run the waveform through a proper filter after decimation, before displaying it. It really isn't a big problem, polyphase resampling filters can be done cheaply in an FPGA and they have one attached directly to the CPU. But I guess they chose the smallest one available and there's not resources left. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure you'd be able to code a decently fast filter just using the NEON SIMD extensions.

Does anyone know the maximum clock speed of the application CPU? Might be possible to infer which device they have used exactly.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1852 on: August 20, 2020, 05:51:53 pm »

Once you see it, it cannot be UNSEEN!  I think it is easy to fix, just show the menu over the waveform, then make it configurable how long the menu stays on screen.

I saw it day one.. honestly it doesnt really bother me.. i dont care for perfection but rather did it tell me what i wanted to know.. if i want to see more i'll change the setting and move on

That said they should maybe have an option to allow image scaling to be turned on or off, or clipping if you want to look at it that way.  Think i said this somewhere before once long ago
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1853 on: August 20, 2020, 10:24:22 pm »

Once you see it, it cannot be UNSEEN!  I think it is easy to fix, just show the menu over the waveform, then make it configurable how long the menu stays on screen.

I saw it day one.. honestly it doesnt really bother me.. i dont care for perfection but rather did it tell me what i wanted to know.. if i want to see more i'll change the setting and move on

That said they should maybe have an option to allow image scaling to be turned on or off, or clipping if you want to look at it that way.  Think i said this somewhere before once long ago

I can't say I ever noticed it until I was looking for it. It certainly doesn't bother me. After using the Rigol that crops the right ~20% of the waveform compared to having it compressed, I'd always go for the compressed option myself.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1854 on: August 20, 2020, 11:20:21 pm »
Oh, I´ll let pop up a menu and the waveform is getting bad while this...
Don´t know the english meaning but in german we say it´s a "phantom schmerz"... ;)
 
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Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1855 on: August 20, 2020, 11:26:17 pm »
Oh, I´ll let pop up a menu and the waveform is getting bad while this...
Don´t know the english meaning but in german we say it´s a "phantom schmerz"... ;)
This one is universal:

“There is no worse blind man than the one who doesn’t want to see. There is no worse deaf man than the one who doesn’t want to hear. And there is no worse madman than the one who doesn’t want to understand.” -Ancient Proverb
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1856 on: August 20, 2020, 11:33:40 pm »
I got the scope, I see it, but it doesn´t bother me - What am I in this case ?  ;)
As long as I take adjustments in the menu - Why should it interest me, if the current waveform are not crispy displaying while I´m doing this ?

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1857 on: August 21, 2020, 02:02:46 am »
That's because the step in between is not an ADC sample, it's interpolated. See the 2nd screen shot that shows the ADC samples as dots.
Since you are running in 10 bit mode, all your steps are interpolated  ;D

However, I did the exercise in a previous post and also found that the scope actually has 11 bits in 10 bits mode when running 500uV/div giving a max native resolution of 33uV and 4uV interpolated.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3180170/#msg3180170

See the reply above. I was referring to the steps that were introduced by the display processor and not a direct ADC sample measurement which the dots show. What's interesting, as mentioned above, is the 4.2uv steps apparently are not in sequence (in sequence 4.2uv steps are not ADC samples but interpolated for display in between 8.33uv steps which are actual ADC samples).

Either way, nice performance for a scope in this class and something I did not expect :-+

Best,

In 10bit mode full range is 1024 and 8bit mode 256. Now of course in 10bit mode result is produced from 8bit resolution raw ADC samples. It is not just for display, it also produce 10bit data to memory (using two bytes, one 8bit data and one 2 bit data and rest bits nonsense foe one data point.)

Display have 8 div vertically. 480pixel afaik.  (main window alone without vertical split for zoom)
When scope is in 8bit mode this 8 vertical div equals 240 from 256 ADC full scale.

Not nice to explain with poor finglish language.

In 10bit mode it produce computed "artificalADC" vertical values, just  like if there is 10bit ADC but somehow reduced performance of course. These "aADC samples" are displayed. But, this aADC can not produce 500ps interval data. So there must be some level repeated fulfill dots. In your image there is lot of dots outside of vertical area in this time slice in image so bit difficult to say why there is not just 4.17uV step visible in sequence what in theory must be possible.

In 10bit mode things can multiply 4 so that now 8 vertical div in display equals 4*240 "aADC" steps so 960 steps.
Now you show display where was used 500uV/div.  So, full display 8 div voltage range is 4000uV.   With 10bit mode one "aADC" step equals 4000/960= 4.17uV (4.1666...)

if they are not sequential in your image it is due to your captured signal and "random".  Do it enough and you must see also other kind of cases. it must be. But remember!  In your displayed image there was 2GSa/s!  It can not produce 10bit resolution 2GSa/s stream, so  that computed "aADC" level changes true interval is 500ps!!
In every place it is told 10bit mode max BW is 100 MHz. Naturally you can not find sequential 500ps interval samples what sequentially step using 4.17uV steps. So, this fact need also remember when analyze display dots or what ever there. Yes it produce 500ps interval dots but computed vertical 10bit resolution steps can not follow 500ps interval exept if you see some display interpolation generated fulfill dots.
But if you drive in wideband real random enough wide band noise  and take out this 10bit resolution data, I believe, you can easy see this 10bit resolution and if setting is 500uV/div you see nice distribution where exists all resolution steps where step is around 4.17uV.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 04:40:34 am by rf-loop »
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Offline milek7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1858 on: August 24, 2020, 11:58:51 am »
Measure in "simple" mode is rather slow (at >=2M memory depths). But on "advanced" mode it is much faster, but it noticeably screws up waveform update rate. What's going on there? :scared:
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1859 on: August 24, 2020, 05:43:20 pm »
Quote
but it noticeably screws up waveform update rate.

It´s normal behaviour...

Offline Vestom

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1860 on: August 24, 2020, 07:40:00 pm »
Quote
Boot time of 45 seconds is just acceptable.
The more features a scope got, the longer it will boot - 45 seconds is in nower days a good value.

Just got a R&S RTB2004 at work today. I was pleasantly surprised that it boots in about 10s!...

Actually it is interesting to compare it to the SDS2000X+, and I could elaborate on my tests/impressions, if anyone are interested...
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1861 on: August 24, 2020, 08:43:19 pm »
Quote
I was pleasantly surprised that it boots in about 10s!...

SSD I guess... ;D ;)

Our new lecroys (Windows 10 OS) are booting under a minute, didn´t stopped that.
Rigol MSO5000 was over a minute, after firmware update appx 50s.... 8)

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1862 on: August 24, 2020, 08:46:29 pm »
No, it just doesn't run Linux.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1863 on: August 24, 2020, 08:51:01 pm »
Ah, an other OS sytem or a own one ?

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1864 on: August 24, 2020, 08:52:40 pm »
RTOS

EDIT: Updated image with screenshot for clarity.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 09:39:45 pm by maginnovision »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1865 on: August 24, 2020, 09:06:35 pm »
R&S runs Free RTOS.

What about Rigol and Siglent?
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1866 on: August 25, 2020, 10:49:47 am »
R&S runs Free RTOS.

What about Rigol and Siglent?

siglent is linux, easy to deal with
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1867 on: August 25, 2020, 11:31:11 pm »
I don't have any problems due to FreeRTOS... Are you saying it'd be a better scope if it was Linux?
 

Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1868 on: August 26, 2020, 01:43:39 am »
I don’t think it makes any difference from the user perspective
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1869 on: August 26, 2020, 07:36:05 am »
I don’t think it makes any difference from the user perspective

It’s likely to boot significantly faster with FreeRTOS, as we’ve seen.
 
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Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1870 on: August 26, 2020, 07:51:28 am »
I don’t think it makes any difference from the user perspective

It’s likely to boot significantly faster with FreeRTOS, as we’ve seen.

I am pretty certain that a Linux system can be booted just as fast, if you spend a little effort on configuration and especially stripping down the system to exactly what you need.
I guess Siglent started from the standard PetaLinux distribution and didn't put a lot of time into optimizing.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 
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Offline hitwzy

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1871 on: August 27, 2020, 04:32:49 am »
Is there a way to setup the script for SDS2104X?
I tried SDS2000X-E and SDS2000X+ as the model number but neither works


Also.. ran into this in another thread and it matches all my keys, this should full unlock anyone

https://repl.it/repls/GainsboroAlienatedText

If you move stuff in otheropt up into bwopt, you can get keys for options.

Yes, the script is a bit broken, the "gen" function doesn't take it's argument into account.

But apart from that, I can confirm that it produces valid keys, except for the power analyzer option. I naively added 'PA' (that seems to be the name of the option) to the opts but the generated key doesn't match.

It's PWA

use this version i modded just for the SDS2000X+

https://repl.it/repls/DirectProbableTwintext
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1872 on: August 27, 2020, 09:04:57 am »
Is there a way to setup the script for SDS2104X?

Nope.
 
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Offline hitwzy

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1873 on: August 27, 2020, 03:53:50 pm »
Thanks. Is there any way to hack the options for the old SDS2104X?

Is there a way to setup the script for SDS2104X?

Nope.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1874 on: August 27, 2020, 07:21:25 pm »
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 09:37:05 pm by tautech »
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
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