Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 732296 times)

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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1875 on: August 28, 2020, 01:31:43 pm »
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1876 on: August 28, 2020, 01:33:37 pm »
Getting back OT, here is something for when the need arises...
 
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Offline Sergio66

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1877 on: August 28, 2020, 04:08:04 pm »
Hello all,

   related to the bug affecting the possibility to load a waveform in a csv file into the AWG


Pretty sure its bugged... basically it fails to load for X reason and wont tell you why.. try this one.. you will see its the same formatting

Have to wonder if the console puts out any error code

Yep..

cp /usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0/positive_pulseDC1000ppm.bin /usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr/positive_pulseDC1000ppm.bin
cp: can't stat '/usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0/positive_pulseDC1000ppm.bin': No such file or directory
rm -f /usr/bin/siglent/usr/usr/positive_pulseDC1000ppm.info
rm -f /usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0/positive_pulseDC1000ppm.info
I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0/positive_pulseDC1000ppm.info"
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system
I/O error : Read-only file system

the last FW release (V1.3.5R10 ) is not yet fixing the issue.

Anyway, looking at the error reported by Elasia, I had the feeling the problem is just the USB-memory is in read-only mode.
So, after connecting to the instrument by telnet and with the USB-memory connected, I used the following command:

mount -o remount,rw,sync /usr/bin/siglent/usr/mass_storage/U-disk0

After sending this command, the csv file stored in the USB-memory can be correctly loaded and the related waveform correctly generated
(.bin and .info files will be written in the USB-memory).

Once the issue will be fixed in a new FW release, it would be nice if the interpolation mode could be made selectable between Linear (the actual / default)
and 0-order hold. I will add this request in the Bugs / Missing Features / Feature Requests list.


Hope this info can be helpful for anyone would like to use the AWG with his own created (with EasyWaveX) csv file.


Sergio


 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1878 on: August 28, 2020, 05:54:31 pm »
I will add this request in the Bugs / Missing Features / Feature Requests list.

I think we should add "Bug Solutions" to that thread name.  :)
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1879 on: August 28, 2020, 08:01:43 pm »
Here is the "instruction" for measuring the max. waveform update rate from siglent...

Somehow, the pdf was broken (thx to sergio for the info) - Now I´ve upload it again.

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1880 on: August 29, 2020, 04:06:04 am »
Here is the "instruction" for measuring the max. waveform update rate from siglent...

Somehow, the pdf was broken (thx to sergio for the info) - Now I´ve upload it again.

This Siglent  "How to test the waveform capture rate" is, how I tell it polite and nicely, just poor.

What is purpose for it. Is it that Siglent here tell what is quality of producing products specifications or what is this.
 
In this example they give visual result is NOT average max wfm/s update rate what is meaningful if calculate example probability to get rare glitch detected in some time gap.

Then they just take one cycle and inside there measure two trigger event time interval equal frequency and get 135kHz. Now without more explanation then tell that wfm updata rate is over 120kwfm/s.  Some  may now think it can also be 135kwfm/s.

Even more, in practice with true signals in one special test setup ... do we really measure 10MHz pure sinewaves. Yes this is for test and also other brands do same. So well... borderline ok.

But in my thinking error is that they do not talk anything what is difference between this possible Peak wfm/s value and continuous average wfm/s.  Are they shy for show this cap in trigged stream when start TFT update phase. Or why not explain bit more.

There is pause in capture before it start capture again, some other Siglent pauses around 25 times in second due to display process. 
I have used external oscilloscope for measure trig out so that I measure whole display and other processing cycle or better if over two cycles. Yes there can be thousands of trigs in one cycle but this whole cycle period need measure for average wfm/s what is much more important than fastest peak value between two triggers what they now nearly show in instructions but without searching most short single period. Other method, without external oscilloscope,  is use external counter what can set for this purpose. But there need be careful and user need really know what he is doing and know his counter principles. I have used example Agilent 53131 but it need manually set for this (trigger level and enough time for count so that this scope periodic capturing pause do not mess result).

I have not measured (yet) SDS2000XPlus  but I do not claim 120kwfm/s is wrong. I think with my experience that it is perhaps enough right for tell wfm/s up to average what is usually what all advertise. I hope not so many advertise up to max peak speed.

Due to normal oscilloscope use and overall wfm/s value still this is not so important if it is highly accurate value because still it is true only  with just said combination of settings.

Btw. It is fun to see that every time I have tested lot of more deeply these many models wfm speed there have been one finding. Nearly right value can get also without signal at all. Just trigger mode auto and without signal soon it start autotrig using minimum trigger interval.



Sequence mode is very different.

In this paper they just measure random speed what is perhaps near truth.
 
But this test performance is very extremely poor.
My opinion is that in Sequence mode we need know guaranteed speed, guaranteed minimum trigger interval and it can not at all measure like they do it in this paper.

This around same can also do without even external scope, so that take in signal and long enough sequence, then look segments time stamp from start to end and calculate average and this is just average it also is not guaranteed speed what is only what really matter. Why they did not tell it.

But....
This give some kind of value what is perhaps near right but it is not guaranteed max speed. Here with these Siglent models I have tested is some differences between models. Some model average speed and max guaranteed speed difference is more than in some other model.

Measuring guaranteed maximum is bit more complex. And there is also two methods for it.
What is guaranteed max speed.
With this constant speed of trigger events no ANY event is missed.
This do not even need trigger output, naturally.
Of course one other method is where also it can do but then need compare scope input signal and trigger output signal so that no any missing events but I do not explain it now because there is also possible traps depending method.


But one method is easy and bullet proof but bit slow to do.
This method use enough stable pulse generator what can work in single burst mode and there must not be high cycle to cycle jitter if want go to near guarateed max speed border reliable.
 
If we set oscilloscope for Single Sequence mode and example 50ns/div time scale.
Then we set max amount of segments. I do not know how many in special model just with this time scale, So if max is 50000 then set it.
Now also pulse generator need set for generate exactly 50000 pulse single period and set it for waiting start button or other start method and set for pulse speed what speed we want test if it pass. Say example 500kHz. (2us period)
Then scope in said mode (naturally trigger adjusted so that it trigs reliable with this signal we have set=.
Then start start scope for single and now it is waiting..
Start generator burst. Look if Sequence is ready. If it get all segments we can now say that guaranteed max speed is least 500000 segment/s after we repeat this test enough times without any fail.
Also we can now rise this pulse speed to example 501kHz and look if it still pass until we fuind limit... then step back and tests enough and if all pass this is max quarateed speed with this setup (selected used channel and used time scale and used memory length if we have tested some very different setup max speed)

Example I have tested some other models max quareteed speed have been even more than Siglent specs.

Many times this is not very important detail but in some cases it is very important to know thuis guaranteed speed so that we can trust that sequence have not dropped any events out.
This speed is very very different when we change time scale and also dependent about segment sample length. With slower time scales we can rise amount of max segments reducing segment length what also naturally then reduce samplerate.

In segment mode is perhaps much more important to really know its max guaranteed speed.
In normal visible mode we many times do things where wfm/s update rate is not very important.
If sequence mode drop out some segments it may be total end of game and whole test goes to garbage. There need be perfect sure. So user need evaluate his scope and finds also how to do it reliable way.
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Offline milek7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1881 on: August 30, 2020, 01:15:21 am »
Quote
I am pretty certain that a Linux system can be booted just as fast, if you spend a little effort on configuration and especially stripping down the system to exactly what you need.
I guess Siglent started from the standard PetaLinux distribution and didn't put a lot of time into optimizing.
It's not even that, Linux boots to userspace pretty quick. That's the application binary that starts up looong time.

Back to my WiFi troubles..
Eh, I ordered RTL8188EU dongle on aliexpress, but it came with MT7601U. Well, there's also driver included for this in firmware, but I didn't want it because Ralink and Linux means trouble.. and sure enough, it doesn't work. Even on my desktop linux pc. Even after monkeypatching driver the driver to make it work, it just crashes whole system after few minutes of use. Garbage driver, waste of time.

So, instead of ordering another dud I resorted to another solution: I had RTL8192CU dongle lying around, but unfortunately siglent fw doesn't include kernel modules for that chip. But, after tracking down compiler (Sourcery CodeBench Lite 2011.09-50) used, and kernel version that's similar enough (xilinx-v2015.2.01) I managed to compile drivers for that, so if anybody is interested: http://milek7.pl/.stuff/3.19.0-xilinx-rtl8192cu.zip
Now wlan0 is visible in system, but configuration GUI in app didn't show up.. meh, it needs some more investigation :P
 
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Offline milek7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1882 on: August 30, 2020, 07:21:51 pm »
I looked into it again, but as far I can tell code for WIFI GUI is just missing. There are some leftovers for backend handling, but no way to activate it. It has to be configured manually, but application gets confused with externally started wpa_supplicant on wlan0, (IP settings nor DHCP doesn't quite work) so workaround is to swap interfaces to trick it so wireless is on eth0.

Appended to insmod_before_app.sh, it disables wired interface and switches to wifi when dongle is inserted during startup. driver modules from my previous post, fw/rtlwifi contain firmware files for dongle, /usr/bin/siglent/usr/wifi/wpa.conf needs to be filled manually with wireless params. IP settings are configured normally from scope interface.
Code: [Select]
echo -n '/usr/bin/siglent/drivers/fw' > /sys/module/firmware_class/parameters/path
insmod /usr/bin/siglent/drivers/rtlwifi.ko
insmod /usr/bin/siglent/drivers/rtl_usb.ko
insmod /usr/bin/siglent/drivers/rtl8192c-common.ko
insmod /usr/bin/siglent/drivers/rtl8192cu.ko

sleep 1
if [ -e /sys/class/net/wlan0/operstate ]
then
  ip link set eth0 down
  ip link set eth0 name wired
  ip link set wlan0 name eth0
  wpa_supplicant -Dnl80211 -ieth0 -C/usr/bin/siglent/usr/wifi/wpa_sock -c/usr/bin/siglent/usr/wifi/wpa.conf -B
fi

BTW, password for Utility>Debug menu is "siglentcd"
 
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Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1883 on: August 30, 2020, 08:06:18 pm »
BTW, password for Utility>Debug menu is "********"

SERIOUS words of warning !!!!
Please be very careful inside the Debug menu.......better the PW is not widely known.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2020, 08:31:07 pm by tautech »
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1884 on: August 30, 2020, 08:28:57 pm »
Quote
better the PW is not widely known.

He should edit his post like for example "PW by request" or similar.

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1885 on: August 30, 2020, 08:33:52 pm »
Quote
better the PW is not widely known.

He should edit his post like for example "PW by request" or similar.
Hmmm, respectfully no.

When it is widely shared control is lost and DSO's will get broken.
Owners don't need that, Siglent does not need that !
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1886 on: August 30, 2020, 08:36:10 pm »


Although this is a forum of engineers, the problem is that most are not civil engineers...   8)
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1887 on: August 30, 2020, 10:15:55 pm »
Hmmm, respectfully no.

Then siglent should erase this mode by the next FW update, I´ve never seen this by any other scope brand.
Either it is ready for series production or it is in development status.
Then it should not be for sale.
 
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Offline steve1515

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1888 on: August 31, 2020, 12:20:11 am »
What kind of things are in this debug menu that make it risky to enter?  :o
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1889 on: August 31, 2020, 08:18:38 am »
What kind of things are in this debug menu that make it risky to enter?  :o

The ability to completely erase all calibration data, for one. You don't want to do that by accident, do you?

All in all, there is nothing in this menu that would serve any purpose to the user or even to Siglent support staff. It's utter blunder to have it in a retail instrument, I have to agree.

PS: You get much greater control with the "telnetd" trick. Another blunder, but at least a versatile one.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 08:21:06 am by thinkfat »
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Offline Orange

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1890 on: August 31, 2020, 08:20:25 am »
For example you can clear the SPI flash calibration data.
With a touch screen, it's easy  done unintentionally !

Better stay out of this debug screen, even if you are curious to see what's in it.
If things go wrong, your scope needs to be sent back to the factory !

What kind of things are in this debug menu that make it risky to enter?  :o
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1891 on: August 31, 2020, 07:44:21 pm »
Test....

Offline gnif

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1892 on: September 01, 2020, 04:00:36 am »
For example you can clear the SPI flash calibration data.
With a touch screen, it's easy  done unintentionally !

Better stay out of this debug screen, even if you are curious to see what's in it.
If things go wrong, your scope needs to be sent back to the factory !

What kind of things are in this debug menu that make it risky to enter?  :o

Attachment removed, the file had a .png extension but was actually an uncompressed Windows bitmap. Please be sure you do not do this again as SMF is too dumb to check the magic bytes in the file header before trying to process these files.
 
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Offline Orange

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1893 on: September 01, 2020, 06:18:25 am »
For example you can clear the SPI flash calibration data.
With a touch screen, it's easy  done unintentionally !

Better stay out of this debug screen, even if you are curious to see what's in it.
If things go wrong, your scope needs to be sent back to the factory !

What kind of things are in this debug menu that make it risky to enter?  :o


Attachment removed, the file had a .png extension but was actually an uncompressed Windows bitmap. Please be sure you do not do this again as SMF is too dumb to check the magic bytes in the file header before trying to process these files.
Sorry for disrupting the list  :(

The issue was reported to the moderator yesterday after it occurred to me that things were wrong, however I got an message back from Simon, that he could load this page without problems.

Another thing; this image was coming from an SDS2000X+ with latest software on it grabbed via the EasyScopeX software.
I was unaware of this behavior since I don't upload very often pictures. It's kind of funny that a debug picture of Siglent is blocking the list  :)

 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1894 on: September 01, 2020, 10:40:48 am »
lol someone let loose the debug password?

I admit i've found it handy but i've been doing things off the beaten path :P

The two things i do like is on screen calibration export/import and dumping buglog off
 

Offline refd

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1895 on: September 05, 2020, 02:42:40 pm »
Forum newbie. Forgive me if I am posting in the wrong place. Thank you tautech/tv84 and all the others for info on the SDS2000X+ upgrades. I am about to purchase the SDS2354X+ and wanted your verification of possible enhancements.  I am buying close to the full monty as I believe if you profit from features so should the originator of those features.  But I will probably dabble in adding things I am curious about. The upgrade from a TeK TDS754A with a floppy (yes flat bellies, those black squares that click when you insert them) will be quite refreshing.  I also believe that the hardware is probably slightly different for the 350Mhz in order to get to a software enabled 500. Not confident buying a 100 would actually get to a real 500.

If buying today is there anything that would stand in the way of adding in the features described above?  Firmware lockouts, etc?
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1896 on: September 05, 2020, 04:04:21 pm »
Forum newbie. Forgive me if I am posting in the wrong place. Thank you tautech/tv84 and all the others for info on the SDS2000X+ upgrades. I am about to purchase the SDS2354X+ and wanted your verification of possible enhancements.  I am buying close to the full monty as I believe if you profit from features so should the originator of those features.  But I will probably dabble in adding things I am curious about. The upgrade from a TeK TDS754A with a floppy (yes flat bellies, those black squares that click when you insert them) will be quite refreshing.  I also believe that the hardware is probably slightly different for the 350Mhz in order to get to a software enabled 500. Not confident buying a 100 would actually get to a real 500.

If buying today is there anything that would stand in the way of adding in the features described above?  Firmware lockouts, etc?

No, and its the same hardware for all units on this model, siglent is pretty open as far as oems go which gets them a lot of hobby buyers
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1897 on: September 05, 2020, 10:33:42 pm »
Quote
I am about to purchase the SDS2354X+ and wanted your verification of possible enhancements.

When you will use it in private for your own and don´t worrying of voided warranty, you could buy the 2104X+ and upgrade it to 2504X+ with all options for free....

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1898 on: September 05, 2020, 10:41:36 pm »
Forum newbie. Forgive me if I am posting in the wrong place. Thank you tautech/tv84 and all the others for info on the SDS2000X+ upgrades. I am about to purchase the SDS2354X+ and wanted your verification of possible enhancements. I am buying close to the full monty as I believe if you profit from features so should the originator of those features.
Welcome to the forum.
A commendable perspective which will deliver the 350 MHz rated 10x probes not the 200 MHz switchables supplied with the SDS2104X Plus.
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1899 on: September 05, 2020, 11:05:41 pm »
LOL  ;D
Better you spare the probe thing out, as it was a big failure from siglent.
Even the 70Mhz model from rigol (MSO5000, direct opponent) comes with the maximum bandwith probes of the top model.
Where the SDS2104X+ costs appx 400 bucks more and came with the cheapest crap probes ever.
Buy the 2354X+, then you´ll get proper probes with and for it....Not really an argument.



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