Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 715209 times)

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Offline Fiorenzo

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3100 on: January 01, 2022, 09:03:21 pm »
Does any one know if in DC mode is possibile to set the scope as when you scale up the volt/div the signal is scaled from the center of the display and not the ground?

Because when I "zoom"  into the signal varying the volt/div the display lose the set voltage offset.

This is very annoing.
When It is in AC mode instead It maintain the display centered on the offset point.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3101 on: January 01, 2022, 09:16:56 pm »
Does any one know if in DC mode is possibile to set the scope as when you scale up the volt/div the signal is scaled from the center of the display and not the ground?

Because when I "zoom"  into the signal varying the volt/div the display lose the set voltage offset.

This is very annoing.
When It is in AC mode instead It maintain the display centered on the offset point.
Yes.
Utility>Reference Pos menu.
If you didn't download manual yet, go ahead.
https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2020/01/SDS2000X-Plus_UserManual_EN01C.pdf
Page 337
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3102 on: January 01, 2022, 09:20:25 pm »
Does any one know if in DC mode is possibile to set the scope as when you scale up the volt/div the signal is scaled from the center of the display and not the ground?

Because when I "zoom"  into the signal varying the volt/div the display lose the set voltage offset.

This is very annoing.
When It is in AC mode instead It maintain the display centered on the offset point.

From the main screen:  Utility (button) / Reference Pos  / (Vertical) Offset
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3103 on: January 02, 2022, 02:24:16 am »
Now I have a question regarding the BW upgrades.  My SDS2354X+ has too much bandwidth.   I get a -3dB point of 540MHz and a step rise time of 654ps on one channel.  The BW does drop when I add a channel, a -3dB point of 410MHz.  I deliberately didn't install the 500M upgrade and I'm a bit surprised to see it essentially behaving just as if it did have 500M.  Does anyone else have one with the 350M that can test it quickly and see what it actually does?
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3104 on: January 02, 2022, 10:21:41 am »
My SDS2354X+ has too much bandwidth.   ... The BW does drop when I add a channel, a -3dB point of 410MHz.

That's a phrase we don't see here many often.  :)

BTW, you added ch2? What would happen if you instead added ch3? Should stay the same, right?
 
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Offline blurpy

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3105 on: January 02, 2022, 12:00:12 pm »
I get a -3dB point of 540MHz and a step rise time of 654ps on one channel. The BW does drop when I add a channel, a -3dB point of 410MHz.  I deliberately didn't install the 500M upgrade and I'm a bit surprised to see it essentially behaving just as if it did have 500M.  Does anyone else have one with the 350M that can test it quickly and see what it actually does?
I don't have a fast enough function generator to test the -3dB bandwidth of this scope, but I did check the rise time when I got it.

This is in 350MHz mode:



And this is in 500MHz mode:



Your rise time measurement resembles my 500MHz one, but the difference isn't all that much between them in any case, for me at least.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3106 on: January 02, 2022, 02:44:02 pm »
That's a phrase we don't see here many often.  :)

BTW, you added ch2? What would happen if you instead added ch3? Should stay the same, right?

Yes, CH2, CH3 doesn't change anything.  Too much bandwidth in this case means it still has significant aliasing unless I use the 200M BW limiter.  I'm glad they included that.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3107 on: January 02, 2022, 06:06:13 pm »
 
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Offline bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3108 on: January 02, 2022, 06:34:45 pm »
This is in 350MHz mode:

And this is in 500MHz mode:

I sure as hell wouldn't want to pay $1399 for the 350M-to-500M upgrade!   :wtf:
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Helix70

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3109 on: January 03, 2022, 04:56:52 am »
Just had confirmation the SDS2000X Plus $219 MSO promotion will officially end 31 Dec.
https://int.siglent.com/info/detail-52.html

Some resellers may continue with it while their stocks last.

I took advantage of this. Great deal!
 
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Offline bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus coming
« Reply #3110 on: January 03, 2022, 05:18:25 pm »
As stated before, bandwidth is limited to 100MHz in 10bit mode.

This is the actual frequency response up to 1GHz:


Given that response, are all the humps past the first one actually aliased?  Would it make sense to always use the 200M BW limiter in conjunction with 10-bit mode?  And if all that is true, perhaps it would be sensible for the scope to automatically switch in the 200M BW when 10-bit is selected?  Or am I missing something?
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3111 on: January 04, 2022, 04:00:43 pm »
As stated before, bandwidth is limited to 100MHz in 10bit mode.

This is the actual frequency response up to 1GHz:


Given that response, are all the humps past the first one actually aliased?
Huh? I’m not sure whether I understand your question. You’re looking at a spectrum up to 1 GHz that has been calculated out of data sampled at 2 GSa/s. Alias signals within this spectrum could only occur because of input frequencies higher than 1 GHz. Since I’ve created this spectrum using a low distortion signal generator sweeping from 100 kHz up to precisely 1 GHz, there is no such possibility. You just see the typical wobbly stopband response of a simple HiRes or similar FIR filter.

Long story short: The HiRes mode uses all the sample data, there is no decimation hence also no reduction of the effective sample rate. Consequently, the Nyquist frequency does not change and will always be half the sample rate as indicated on the Timebase tab.

Would it make sense to always use the 200M BW limiter in conjunction with 10-bit mode?  And if all that is true, perhaps it would be sensible for the scope to automatically switch in the 200M BW when 10-bit is selected?  Or am I missing something?
Yes, it does make sense to use the additional 200 MHz bandwidth limit. See the attached screenshots that show the frequency response of the 10 bit mode in full channel mode, i.e. at only 1 GSa/s up to 1 GHz.

First without input bandwidth limit:
 
SDS2354X Plus_FR_BFull_1GSa_500MHz_10bit

You see the frequency response in the first Nyquist zone up to 500 MHz in orange with only one additional “hump”. Of course, the filter had to be implemented differently for the two different sample rates, in order to provide a similar upper bandwidth limit. At 1 GSa/s it uses just 4 samples, which is enough to calculate a 10 bit result. 8 samples are used at 2 GSa/s, but I suppose the resulting 11 bits are truncated to 10 bits again.

The violet reference trace shows the frequency response from 500 MHz to 1 GHz, from right to left, since this is an aliased signal in the second Nyquist zone. For this I had to deliberately apply a signal above 500 MHz even though the sample rate is only 1 GSa/s.

Now compare this with the second screenshot, where the 200 MHz bandwidth limiter has been activated:

SDS2354X Plus_FR_B200M_1GSa_500MHz_10bit

This is similar to the first screenshot, where the frequency response of the second Nyquist zone is shown in green. Both reference traces for the second Nyquist zone are visible now, so you can easily compare the additional protection against aliasing. At 375 MHz (which is actually 625 MHz!) the aliased signal is about 6 dB lower than without the 200 MHz bandwidth limit.

There is only one reason, why we don’t have (and don’t want) the scope dictating the bandwidth limit – this is the very soft roll-off of a first order gaussian filter. If you compare the two screenshots, then you’ll notice that at the specified bandwidth of 100 MHz the actual attenuation is about 2.34 dB without bandwidth limit, but almost 3.3 dB when the 200 MHz bandwidth limiter is active. Consequently, we are violating the specs with this measure. Of course we still use it anyway, but we always have to be aware of the consequences and we should not complain about nearly 1 dB additional attenuation at the specified bandwidth.
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3112 on: January 05, 2022, 12:27:48 pm »
For all those who want to see a more detailed analysis regarding bandwidth, pulse fidelity and aliasing, I've started a new topic on this and attached an extensive application note.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds2000x-plus-bandwidth-aliasing-application-note/
 
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Offline Fiorenzo

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3113 on: January 06, 2022, 05:21:57 am »
Does any one know if in DC mode is possibile to set the scope as when you scale up the volt/div the signal is scaled from the center of the display and not the ground?

Because when I "zoom"  into the signal varying the volt/div the display lose the set voltage offset.

This is very annoing.
When It is in AC mode instead It maintain the display centered on the offset point.
Yes.
Utility>Reference Pos menu.
If you didn't download manual yet, go ahead.
https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2020/01/SDS2000X-Plus_UserManual_EN01C.pdf
Page 337

Yes I checked in the manual but did not think It was in the utility menu. Thank you very much.
 

Offline Fiorenzo

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3114 on: January 06, 2022, 05:32:37 am »
Another maybe silly question: I thought that the scope was automatically capable to reconize if the probes are set to 10x or a 100x but It doesn't do It.
Is due to cheap probes they gave in bundle?

Thank you.
 

Offline Helix70

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3115 on: January 06, 2022, 05:45:22 am »
Another maybe silly question: I thought that the scope was automatically capable to reconize if the probes are set to 10x or a 100x but It doesn't do It.
Is due to cheap probes they gave in bundle?

Thank you.
1x and 10x, but the 200mhz probes don't have the pin. I believe the 350mhz ones do, and I believe it works with Tek and Agilent probes that have the pin.

Regards,

Josh
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3116 on: January 06, 2022, 05:52:20 am »
Another maybe silly question: I thought that the scope was automatically capable to reconize if the probes are set to 10x or a 100x but It doesn't do It.
Is due to cheap probes they gave in bundle?

Well, yes, but I've never seen 1X/10X switchable probes that had that sensor feature.  It would be tricky to implement automatically and there's not much point to making it a manual selection.  Higher end fixed ratio probes may have readout pins, but not 1X/10X.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Angus

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3117 on: January 12, 2022, 08:30:00 am »
Not 100% sure if my question was answered before, so please excuse if someone came up with it before.

I noticed that there seem to be blank periods at a fixed period in the signal if you set the scope to dot mode. What is the reason for that, or in other words: do you see the same effect on your scopes?
Maybe it is no concidence that this occures at adc frequency, so dead because of reading, but it you look at png1 you'll notice a shorter blanked out period in between.
Is that a problem or working fine?


I set the scope to dot mode with persistance turned on.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3118 on: January 12, 2022, 04:30:42 pm »
I noticed that there seem to be blank periods at a fixed period in the signal if you set the scope to dot mode. What is the reason for that, or in other words: do you see the same effect on your scopes?
Maybe it is no concidence that this occures at adc frequency, so dead because of reading, but it you look at png1 you'll notice a shorter blanked out period in between.
Is that a problem or working fine?

Your scope is working fine, but it still is an interesting question if you want to know the details of how the digital interpolating trigger system works.  If you look at a series of single-shot acquisitions, you will see all of your samples evenly spaced at 500ps.  The digital trigger looks at the samples and when the trigger condition is met--in this case rises through a threshold--it commits the pre-trigger samples to the first half of a frame and then finishes that frame with whatever samples come after.  It then determines the exact position that the transition occurred between the two sample points using interpolation and then shifts the display of those samples by that amount.  This way on a uniform repeating signal, the multiple traces will all overlay each other even though the actual trigger condition was met at a different point between the samples. 

The 'blank' areas that you see that have no samples in them are probably just the result of a certain level of granularity in the process that prevents the interpolation algorithm from assigning estimated trigger points at the very extremes of and perhaps right in the center of the sample interval. 
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3119 on: January 19, 2022, 08:26:16 pm »
Hello!

Perhaps a silly question, but is there a fine control for the SDS2000X Plus time base setting? In other words, can I set the time base to, say, 70ms/div?

The vertical scale has a fine setting (via a push on the rotary dial) and also allows fine settings via its channel on-screen display and via its 'calculator' input.

But I don't see a similar thing for the time base. The pushbutton in the rotary dial activates zoom, not a fine setting. And in the timebase settings window, I do not seem to be able to enter other values than the 'coarse adjustment' 1-2-5 sequence.

Or am I perhaps overlooking something?

Thanks!
 

Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3120 on: January 19, 2022, 08:49:21 pm »
Hello!

Perhaps a silly question, but is there a fine control for the SDS2000X Plus time base setting? In other words, can I set the time base to, say, 70ms/div?

The vertical scale has a fine setting (via a push on the rotary dial) and also allows fine settings via its channel on-screen display and via its 'calculator' input.

But I don't see a similar thing for the time base. The pushbutton in the rotary dial activates zoom, not a fine setting. And in the timebase settings window, I do not seem to be able to enter other values than the 'coarse adjustment' 1-2-5 sequence.

Or am I perhaps overlooking something?

Thanks!
That's how these work in the normal timebase mode however using Zoom you have 2 timebases.
Touch or click on one or the other to make it active to the timebase control.
The active window is identified by a dotted line around its perimeter.
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Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3121 on: January 20, 2022, 06:26:16 am »
Quote
That's how these work in the normal timebase mode however using Zoom you have 2 timebases.

Thanks for the answer.

But my question was: is there a fine control for the SDS2000X Plus time base setting? In other words, can I set the time base to, say, 70ms/div? 

I cannot find that in one of the time basis in the zoom setting either...
 

Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3122 on: January 20, 2022, 06:34:42 am »
Quote
That's how these work in the normal timebase mode however using Zoom you have 2 timebases.

Thanks for the answer.

But my question was: is there a fine control for the SDS2000X Plus time base setting? In other words, can I set the time base to, say, 70ms/div? 

I cannot find that in one of the time basis in the zoom setting either...
Because it's not there. AFAIK none of the Siglent DSO's offer Fine adjustments for timebases.
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Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3123 on: January 20, 2022, 06:48:49 am »
Thanks. That is what I was trying to find out: whether it's not there, or where I was overlooking it somehow.
 

Offline blurpy

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #3124 on: January 20, 2022, 05:51:15 pm »
I asked my local distributor about the SP2035A probes, and was told that the European prices (updated this January) are still not adjusted :--
Waiting to hear back from Siglent about this being an error or if Europe is excluded from the new lower price.
 


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