Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 131382 times)

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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #150 on: January 20, 2020, 10:50:02 pm »
The SDS plus should arrive tomorrow, on evening.
I´m exiting about the things  it could do better/worse than my former owned rigol…

Quote
The frame rate and measurement speed of the SDS5000X series are simply terrible (~5000 frames/s with low memory depth)

Will check this.

By the way, "terrible" in comparison to what ?


Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #151 on: January 20, 2020, 10:58:16 pm »
The SDS plus should arrive tomorrow, on evening.
I´m exiting about the things  it could do better/worse than my former owned rigol…

Quote
The frame rate and measurement speed of the SDS5000X series are simply terrible (~5000 frames/s with low memory depth)

Will check this.

By the way, "terrible" in comparison to what ?
Terrible in that opinions are based on a year old video and 2 SDS5kX FW updates have been released since Daves video.
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Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #152 on: January 21, 2020, 01:00:05 am »
It was discussed in some detail in the SDS5000X thread how the specified waveforms per second numbers are only true for point mode and drop drastically with linear or sinc interpolation.
Not a showstoppper for me but worth noticing, especially when comparing to the current Rigol scopes.
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #153 on: January 21, 2020, 07:02:34 pm »
Tadaaa… ;)

[attachimg=1]

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #154 on: January 21, 2020, 08:29:47 pm »
So, after a little bit acclimatization ( it´s cold outside), I coudn´t resist any longer and turned it on.
Pictures in the evening are a bad idea, so I´ll do it in the next days.
Here some impressions:
Nice building quality although it´s lightweight and thin, stable standing.
Turned it on....boot time appx 43s.
Clear menu structures, fast response.
Display ist clear and bright ( better than rigol 5000 even after it´s modification), touchresponse is fast ( better than rigol).
Lag between swiping and line movement is nicely short ( better than rigol).
First a little surprise: The AWG is working, wtf ?!
Ah, all options are in trial mode... ;D
Fan noise is acceptable quiet, quieter than...rigol.  ;)
The 2 GSa/s remains when you choose ch1+ch3 or ch2+ch4, also the memdepth.
Memdepth : It´s manual selectable...
More things in the next days, maybe I take it to work to measure the updaterate.

First conclusion after a few minutes of playing with it:
I won´t blame my former rigol mso5, but there are some things siglent had done it better.
Display : bigger, brighter, clearer
Touchpanel : Response is remarkable faster, more exactly.
Menus: Sorry, no comparision(siglent is better).
Handling in general is better, performance in general seems ( must test it longer) a little bit faster.
Actually, I got only positive thoughts on it.
To be continued..



Offline Pinkus

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #155 on: January 21, 2020, 08:52:58 pm »
So the column "remaining times" at the option screen reflects the remaining usage of this function?
Example: if you never use the CAN decoder, even if you switched the scope on for 100x, this functions still got 30 usages left?
(I hope Siglent will count only down again after a switch-off of the scope).
If it is like this, it is a fair solution - it would give you at least 30 days of option usage and if you do not need the options frequently (e.g. AWG) they will be available even in a year.
(I am not familiar with Siglent, it might be the case with other of their scopes too and thus kind of obvious for some people, though it is not for me)

 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #156 on: January 21, 2020, 08:57:31 pm »
Quote
Example: if you never use the CAN decoder, even if you switched the scope on for 100x, this functions still got 30 usages left?

It seems so - I´ve only used the AWG and activated the power analysis for looking what´s inside the menus.
And both of them have now "29" left.


Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #157 on: January 21, 2020, 09:38:50 pm »
Hm. You know, just going by the Siglent EU prices on their website, a SDS2354X PLUS with Logic Probe, Wavegen and CANFD decoder license comes in at 3549€ net.

For about the same money (less, actually) I can currently buy a RTB2004 bundle with (roughly) the same specs. The RTB2004 has only 300MHz bandwidth, but an actual 10bit ADC with 2.5 GSa/s (interleaved) and a higher resolution screen. Also, no bandwidth upgrade option.

AAAargh!

PS: The RTB2004 also has a lot less memory and I think "only" 50000 wfms/s update rate.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 09:48:43 pm by thinkfat »
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #158 on: January 21, 2020, 09:41:20 pm »
Quote
Example: if you never use the CAN decoder, even if you switched the scope on for 100x, this functions still got 30 usages left?

It seems so - I´ve only used the AWG and activated the power analysis for looking what´s inside the menus.
And both of them have now "29" left.
Yes this is the options trial time scheme Siglent use in all of their scopes. 1 use = 1 trial time.
Some of their other equipment use a different scheme.......options are active and free to use for x# of ON hours.

Careful management of trial option usages can keep options available for when you need them for a good long while.
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #159 on: January 21, 2020, 09:47:26 pm »
@MartinM
FYI, you can capture any displayed page straight to a USB using the blue Print button and have a tiny .png file.
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #160 on: January 21, 2020, 10:24:04 pm »
Hi tautech,

Thanks and this is what I know from rigols "quick button" - Press it, then you have a screenshot.
Or you can configure the button for your own needs.

@thinkfat:

Quote
The RTB2004 has only 300MHz bandwidth, but an actual 10bit ADC with 2.5 GSa/s (interleaved) and a higher resolution screen.

It´s their biggest advantage in comparision to others - a 10bit ADC and the unbeatable hires screen.
But that´s all in my opinion.
If you need this, you should buy it.
Our (at work) last new scopes were from lecroy, a waverunner 8bit scope and a hdo6034 real 12 bit scope, bought together with 40% off for "only" 26000€.
Still I couldn´t detect any advantage of the 12bit against the 8bit at our daily works.
If your works needs to have higher resolution, then go for more than 8bit.

Quote
a SDS2354X PLUS with Logic Probe, Wavegen and CANFD decoder license comes in at 3549€ net.

For me, I don´t need logic probes/option for LA, CAN also and a AWG, I like to use an extended one.
As I said it on the rigol threads, I won´t spend that money for a chinese brand scope.
Especially when the basic model got it all already ( and the rest must be unlock via software upgrades) - Then you know it´s real price what the hardware concerns.
Therefore, I compare always the basic models.




« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 10:42:52 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline Serg65536

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #161 on: January 22, 2020, 06:33:59 am »
Therefore, I compare always the basic models.

Please at least make the table “Horizontal Frequency VS Update Time” in the fastest display mode (or fastest usable display mode).
Is the SPO function adequate?
Is it convenient (and fast) to use the zoom mode?
Is the oscilloscope fast enough when viewing a waveform with a maximum memory depth?

By the way, is anyone going to do a full review?
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #162 on: January 22, 2020, 09:57:59 am »
Memdepth : It´s manual selectable...
That sounds very promising. Does it always stay that way?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #163 on: January 22, 2020, 01:51:04 pm »
Memdepth : It´s manual selectable...
That sounds very promising. Does it always stay that way?

AFAIK this is misunderstanding or careless expression.  (nice to see you also ask this question even when you know answer already)

There can always manually set limit of maximum capture memory length what oscilloscope can not exceed.  As it is in all X/X-E scopes.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #164 on: January 22, 2020, 01:55:09 pm »
Memdepth : It´s manual selectable...
That sounds very promising. Does it always stay that way?
AFAIK this is misunderstanding or careless expression.  (nice to see you also ask this question even when you know answer already)
I don't know the answer and that is why I ask the question.  To me it is utterly and totally unclear on whether this oscilloscope can be set to have a fixed memory depth or not (without needing to resort to workaround by using zoom mode c.q. even if that results in data being outside of the display). The original incarnation of this oscilloscope would revert back to automatic memory depth in many cases which was very annoying. In later incarnations the memory depth seems to be always automatic according to your information. Waiting for Martin to (finally) get a clear answer on this topic....
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 02:04:31 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #165 on: January 22, 2020, 07:41:09 pm »
The maximum (!) memory is selectable also for the SDS5000X, but the manual is a bit vague if you actual force the scope in using the maximum memory:

Quote
Memory Depth: The maximum memory depth that can be supported.
According to the formula "acquisition time = sample points x sample interval",
setting a larger memory depth can achieve a higher sample rate for a given
timebase, but more samples require more processing time, degrading the
waveform update rate. With 250 Mpts memory depth, SDS5000X can still run
at full sample rate (5 GSa/s) even when set to the 5 ms/div timebase.

Note: The memory depth here is the upper limit of the memory space allocated
by the oscilloscope. The actual sample points is related to the current timebase
and may be less than memory depth. The actual sample points information can
be obtained in the timebase descriptor box.

For me this sounds a bit like the scope doesn't consider the maximum memory to capture data outside the screen but more like would only use this value to use a higher number of samples for what is shown on the screen. But I may be wrong.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #166 on: January 22, 2020, 08:00:10 pm »
The maximum (!) memory is selectable also for the SDS5000X, but the manual is a bit vague if you actual force the scope in using the maximum memory:

Quote
Memory Depth: The maximum memory depth that can be supported.
According to the formula "acquisition time = sample points x sample interval",
setting a larger memory depth can achieve a higher sample rate for a given
timebase, but more samples require more processing time, degrading the
waveform update rate. With 250 Mpts memory depth, SDS5000X can still run
at full sample rate (5 GSa/s) even when set to the 5 ms/div timebase.

Note: The memory depth here is the upper limit of the memory space allocated
by the oscilloscope. The actual sample points is related to the current timebase
and may be less than memory depth. The actual sample points information can
be obtained in the timebase descriptor box.

For me this sounds a bit like the scope doesn't consider the maximum memory to capture data outside the screen but more like would only use this value to use a higher number of samples for what is shown on the screen. But I may be wrong.
The way I read it, it means that it will only use the amount of memory which is (just) enough to fill the screen. But it would be nice if someone can actually test it.

The reason I'm so interested is that I have a customer who might need an oscilloscope later this year and it would be nice to have some other choice besides the R&S RTB2004. This customer already has some Siglent gear due to me suggesting it. But -again- limiting memory depth to the screen would disqualify Siglent scopes.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #167 on: January 22, 2020, 08:51:38 pm »
Hi,

Quote
Note: The memory depth here is the upper limit of the memory space allocated
by the oscilloscope. The actual sample points is related to the current timebase
and may be less than memory depth. The actual sample points information can
be obtained in the timebase descriptor box.

For me it´s a normal behaviour, other scopes are doing it too.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #168 on: January 22, 2020, 09:05:48 pm »
Pictures..

1)At 10ms/div. you still got the 200mpts memory. 2) 1Mhz signal at 10ms/div. stopped and 3) "zooming" into it. 4) At 500ns/div., 10kpts Memory, 5) At 5ns/div. 100pts .


Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #169 on: January 22, 2020, 09:08:16 pm »
Hi,

Quote
Note: The memory depth here is the upper limit of the memory space allocated
by the oscilloscope. The actual sample points is related to the current timebase
and may be less than memory depth. The actual sample points information can
be obtained in the timebase descriptor box.

For me it´s a normal behaviour, other scopes are doing it too.
No. Keysight (the general purpose scopes) for example will always use the maximum amount of memory. On other oscilloscopes you can either set a specific amount of memory OR have the oscilloscope manage it automatically to maximise the number of waveforms/s. I've used over a dozen of different DSOs over the years and Siglent really is an exception if they don't allow to force a fixed memory depth.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 09:12:24 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #170 on: January 22, 2020, 09:11:23 pm »
Hi,

Quote
Note: The memory depth here is the upper limit of the memory space allocated
by the oscilloscope. The actual sample points is related to the current timebase
and may be less than memory depth. The actual sample points information can
be obtained in the timebase descriptor box.

For me it´s a normal behaviour, other scopes are doing it too.
No. Keysight for example will always use the maximum amount of memory. On other oscilloscopes you can either set a specific amount of memory OR have the oscilloscope manage it automatically to maximise the number of waveforms/s. I've used over a dozen of different DSOs over the years and Siglent really is an exception if they don't allow to force a memory depth.

Yeah, and that's really a pity :-( It means there's nothing stored pre-trigger and if I want to look "back" to see what happened just right outside of the screen, I won't be able to.
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #171 on: January 22, 2020, 09:19:33 pm »
Quote
No. Keysight (the general purpose scopes) for example will always use the maximum amount of memory.

Maybe i got it in a wrong memory, but I saw it on lecroy and rigol scopes too.
First I can check tomorrow on work, the second was gone…


Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #172 on: January 22, 2020, 09:48:13 pm »
Quote
No. Keysight (the general purpose scopes) for example will always use the maximum amount of memory.

Maybe i got it in a wrong memory, but I saw it on lecroy and rigol scopes too.
First I can check tomorrow on work, the second was gone…
My Lecroy Wavepro 7k seems to have the same limitation where it won't acquire outside the screen (I hadn't checked that so I'm unpleasantly surprised; being able to use all the memory is a common feature to me). Given the relationship between Lecroy and Siglent this isn't a surprise but Lecroy is also an oddball because they don't have peak-detect.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 09:55:33 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #173 on: January 22, 2020, 10:03:01 pm »
We got Waverunner 9000 and HDO6000 here, as they were our last bought scopes.
Further a Wavesurfer 3000, which is clearly a siglent scope.
Apart from them some older models made by Iwatsu.
Nevertheless, if you got (like this siglent does) 200mpts Memory at 10ms timebase and 2GSa/s, do you expect the same amount on a timebase at nanosecond-range ?
Not ironically meant, actually I don´t know it really.
For me it seems "normal" that memdepth will reduce the shorter the timebase is.


« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 10:42:34 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #174 on: January 22, 2020, 10:27:04 pm »
On the RTB you can say 10(20)M memory and even at 1ns timebase it'll capture that amount of memory at 2.5gs/s. So you can single capture then pull the timebase out and see more data.
 


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