Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[kcbrown]

https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/summer-time-special-bundle-save-up-to-e496-with-a-new-sds2000x-plus-oscilloscope-and-option-bundle/

The promotion is not valid in the North America district   

Well, yeah, of course not.  Because nobody in North America has Euros!   

I'll be here all week.  Try the veal.

[tautech]

https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/summer-time-special-bundle-save-up-to-e496-with-a-new-sds2000x-plus-oscilloscope-and-option-bundle/

The promotion is not valid in the North America district   

However it is here in NZ also along with the previous free options promotion. 
Waiting for more to arrive..........

[Faranight]

Yes, I found out that several webstores are offering the 199 EUR promotion until 30 September.

I´ve got the SDS2104X+, like imho 99% of all SDS2K+ buyers, and it´s unlocked to 500Mhz without any problem.

So, is there any benefit at all in buying SDS2204X+ over SDS2104X+?
Does the 2204 have any hardware upgrades to excuse the 850 eur price difference?

EDIT: This is a huge thread, but several posts say it's the same hardware.

[Bad_Driver]

Since my Scope is behind my working area I bought this some month ago, very handy.
Much better than try to reach the scope behind the DUT.

Yes but if you click on any alphanumeric input box a virtual keyboard appears which is pretty quick to use with a mouse.
Clicking on boxes is not obvious at first however it works very well and negates the need for a keyboard mostly unless you're working with long filenames and such.
Edit to add image.

Sure, that‘s right. Most of all time I only use the mouse. I have no space for a full size keyboard but sometimes the num keypad is helpful. No big deal with this price.

[Tankj]

It must be getting late or you're dead tired. 

Pretty difficult to calculate trends with so few samples on the display. 

Nope, it just doesn't work Try it, then you'll get what I'm saying.
Or maybe this problem is only on my machine, then it's not a bug

some thoughts on this:

As for Period measurement, it do every cycle with one capture, when a lot of cycles show in one display, it's much faster than "cycle XXX", which are just measurements of the first cycle of one capture. Those "cycle XXX" does not rely on much waves in one capture, it only getting faster with faster sampling, and the best situation is put just one or two cycle on the display(no wasting time to capture the rest waves), then the "cycle XXX" is just as fast as Freq.

And the problem is not about acquisition speed or sample quantity, nor the waveform frequency. For comparison, ALL Period measurement will immediately show an outputs on "Track plot". It's just some kind of faster trend chart, but not in roll mode, also on trigger on it. A plain sinewave Means there is no time domain changes here, so a plain line output is expected, just as it do on Freq or Duty measurements.

Anyone can try this on his/her machine and feedback the result, so We can figure out if this is a bug

Since the 2000X+ can't do a Spectrogram display, this "Track plot" is very usefull to give us some insight on waveform changes in the time domain.

[Tankj]

It must be getting late or you're dead tired. 

Pretty difficult to calculate trends with so few samples on the display. 

Well, both... And correct.

It should be tried with same 1 MHz carrier and same 1 kHz modulation...Just AM..

I hope so..... but it's not   If this is a bug... hope siglent will fix it next firmware.

[Johnny B Good]

@Bad_Driver

 Thank you very much! I was searching BangGood's offerings within minutes of reading yesterday's post to check out availability and pricing. 

 They only had the keypad without mouse option for around the ten quid mark so I checked out AliExpress who had the complete keypad and mouse version for slightly less (after the 20%VAT had been added). Ebay only had sellers asking 53 quid and Amazon as usual, had nothing or at best what they do have is very often far from being the "Right Price".

 I was so impressed by AliEpress's price matching their higher spec package against the lower specced BangGood one, I decided to take the plunge and order it then and there, after the usual faff of registering my soul with yet another devilish e-tailer (AliExpress).

 That's a yet more compact solution than the compact  HYSJ V700 61 key keyboard I'd already purchased the month before for twenty quid (I already owned a wireless optical mouse suited to this task). Of course, in hindsight (thanks to tautech's observation that a mouse alone will serve quite nicely in 99% of cases), I suppose I could have saved myself the 30 quid I've invested thus far.

[Martin72]

There is something to have in mind:  Some measurements are performed one every signal cycle in acquired buffer. If you have 1000 periods of signal in a capture, it will make that measurement 1000 times. Some measurement are preformed on buffer as a whole. So for one single capture you only get one measurement.

Good example is  "RMS" (whole interval you captured yields one result) and "cycle RMS" (that will give you back many results in one captured buffer).

You can guess which one can be enabled for Trend and which ones cannot? 

Thank you 2N3055!!  It works exactly as you say!  I get a clear view of the modulation signal, pics shows a FM Triangle wave. (Pic 1)

As you mentioned, ALL "cycle XXX" measurements can run the "Track plot". But again I found another problem, none of the Vertical measurements can show any outputs on "Track plot" window!! Not only can’t display an AM modulated signal, it can’t even output a plain line with a simple waveform input.

pic2 shows a 1.4V RMS sinewave, Manually set to scale, should expect a plain line on 1.4V label, but there are nothing. Auto set is unusable, seems it can't get any data from measurements.

  A bug or something?

Reproduce your settings, same here...(Pic1)
But, have a look at pic2, Trend setting from Null to cycle rms (the button trend when you choose measure tools).

[mawyatt]

The Trend and Trace features are very interesting indeed, thanks to 2N3055 and Tankj

Edit: Decided to use the SDG2042X AWG to input some complex waveforms. Set the AWG to 10MHz, FM modulation with 400KHz deviation and 20KHz modulation rate, and used the Trace mode. Went thru all the various complex waveforms stored in the AWG, and the scope properly displayed the waveforms that are now modulating the frequency and being displayed by frequency discrimination!!!

Best,

[Tankj]

Reproduce your settings, same here...(Pic1)
But, have a look at pic2, Trend setting from Null to cycle rms (the button trend when you choose measure tools).

Hi Martin, thank you for that test, your pic1 has same result as mine, so it's not due to my machine.

Yes, the Trend chart is always works. However it can't do things that Track plot does. Trend is too slow that stick on 1sample/s, can only show Long-term Trend.

Track plot should show a 20kHz signal moduatied to MHz carrier wave.

Just did a comparison, 10MHz carrier, 4MHz deviation, 20kHz FM modulated square wave. Track plot shows the 20kHz square sharp very well (My old signal generator only outputs modulation 20khz max).

Now still can't make it work to show amplitude changes.

[Tankj]

Maybe siglent thinks 2000X+ is TOOMUCH powerful, they have to limit its capabilities

[mawyatt]

Here's a few complex waveforms we collected using a 10MHz FM modulated signal. The AWG was set to 10MHz with FM modulation and various modulation waveforms. The scope channel 2 shows the modulation waveform type and you can see how the scope demodulates the FM waveform and displays the modulation.

The Chirp Modulation waveform is interesting in that the "Carrier" is being FM modulated by a Chirp which in itself is a Linear FM modulated signal, or quadratic phase.....so sinusoid FM modulated by quadratic phase. The Radar is another, here the Carrier is being frequency stepped then returned to center frequency, then frequency stepped higher and returned, and then higher again and again and the cycle repeats. Also note the FM Sinc function.

Anyway, this looks to be quite a useful feature for those interested in signal processing or communications, or maybe just fooling around

Best, 

[blurpy]

I'm struggling with the FFT on this scope. It seems to display the fundamental at 4 times the frequency.

This is using the internal AWG with a sine at 1 kHz, 1 Vrms:



Why does it show 4 kHz in the FFT? The frequency counter gets it right.
If I change it to 2 kHz in the AWG it shows as 8 kHz in the FFT.

This is the same signal as the first image, but connected to my SDS1204X-E instead:



Looks correct there.

I have tried turning the scope off and disconnecting mains, as well as resetting to default. Always the same.
Is there an explanation for this, or is it a bug in the FFT?

[kcbrown]

I'm struggling with the FFT on this scope. It seems to display the fundamental at 4 times the frequency.
.
.
.
Is there an explanation for this, or is it a bug in the FFT?

I have the same issue.  It's quite clearly a bug. 

Seriously, Siglent?  You don't have this thing called, you know, regression testing?   

The amount of time it took them to release this last update makes it clear that Siglent did try to get things right, so this is rather a surprise.

[maxspb69]

I also noticed this bug. On the previous firmware everything was ok.

Siglent, this needs to be fixed urgently and the update should be released as soon as possible.
One of the main advantages of SDS2000+  - FFT,  now works poorly 

[Martin72]

Hi,

Could reproduce it too.(Blurpy´s settings (2Mp FFT)
Additional, when you change the memdepth to maximum, peaks are changing to higher frequencies.
Plus some annoying thing, but I´ll report it in the bug thread.

[maxspb69]

The FFT bug is observed only with a memory depth of 20 or 200 mpts. With less memory depth, everything is displayed correctly.
 If you know this "nice feature", the FFT can be used until the manufacturer fixes the bug (I guess it won't be soon, in the next FW  in a year .

[blurpy]

Thanks to everyone who tested to confirm the bug, and for reporting it in the bug thread!

I am a bit concerned with how testing is conducted at Siglent. They broke wifi completely in the latest firmware for the SDS1004X-E, and they broke FFT for the SDS2000X. Both are primary, advertised features, and these bugs were easy to detect.

I see many on this forum commenting that they don't trust the readings from the cheaper brands, and with Siglent being a challenger, they have everything to gain from improving their regression tests. The big bang firmware updates they have been doing lately is probably part of the reason for these regressions. It's much easier to test smaller updates with few changes than one update that changes things everywhere.

The FFT bug is observed only with a memory depth of 20 or 200 mpts. With less memory depth, everything is displayed correctly.
 If you know this "nice feature", the FFT can be used until the manufacturer fixes the bug (I guess it won't be soon, in the next FW  in a year .

Thanks, the workaround works! 2M looks fine, and 200M looks even worse than my initial tests.

[thinkfat]

Wasn't one of the new features calculating the FFT on the complete sample buffer? Because with the previous firmware the maximum length for the FFT was 2 Msmps.

So they only botched a new feature, not skimped on regression testing

[blurpy]

Wasn't one of the new features calculating the FFT on the complete sample buffer? Because with the previous firmware the maximum length for the FFT was 2 Msmps.

So they only botched a new feature, not skimped on regression testing

Seeing as I found the issue using the default settings on the scope, a regression test should have revealed that the new feature broke a normal use case

[rf-loop]

Wasn't one of the new features calculating the FFT on the complete sample buffer? Because with the previous firmware the maximum length for the FFT was 2 Msmps.

So they only botched a new feature, not skimped on regression testing

Capture length (sample buffer length) and FFT length are two different things.  FFT have max 2M sample points. Capture length need be of course least equal or more than current FFT length. If Acq. length is 200M  then FFT use only this (max) 2M slice from whole capture.

But yes it looks like some mistake with tests before launch. There is lot of combinations...

[2N3055]

Wasn't one of the new features calculating the FFT on the complete sample buffer? Because with the previous firmware the maximum length for the FFT was 2 Msmps.

So they only botched a new feature, not skimped on regression testing

If they provided 200 Msamples FFT they would be pretty unique in this part of universe for scopes of this class...
You have to go to pretty advanced scope to get to that order of magnitude  FFT sizes..

[thinkfat]

Why? It's not more complex calculating an FFT on 200 Msmps than on 2. It just takes longer. It's mainly a question whether it is practical or not.

Well, yes, it is also a question of sampling clock stability if it makes sense or not.

[Martin72]

Wasn't one of the new features calculating the FFT on the complete sample buffer? Because with the previous firmware the maximum length for the FFT was 2 Msmps.

And still it´s 2Mpoints - The only mentioned FFT-feature in the new firmware:

. Save/Recall:
a) Supported network storage
b) Supported to Print only grid area
c) Supported to save FFT result
d) Updated the File Manage

[2N3055]

Why? It's not more complex calculating an FFT on 200 Msmps than on 2. It just takes longer. It's mainly a question whether it is practical or not.

Well, yes, it is also a question of sampling clock stability if it makes sense or not.

Clock stability would be fine. But it is not practical and it is not something that would be used except in fringe cases.
2Mpoints FFT is still better than anything that costs less than 20000 USD new.