Siglent SDS2204 + MSO review

[nctnico]

IMHO it is not difficult for Siglent to replace the flatcable with something better without making the cable more expensive. There are shells for these type of connectors which are suitable for a round cable. Maybe even a readily made SCSI cable with HD connectors.

[nctnico]

I found another bug when using the timebase to zoom into signals. One way to reproduce:
Capture the calibrator signal with horizontal set to roll mode with 100ms/div. Press stop. Use the timebase setting to zoom in to 50us/div. Now the waveform is displayed weird. When the horizontal position is turned the waves move weird. On edge stands still while the other edge moves. For some reason only 50us/div has this behaviour.

[tautech]

I found another bug when using the timebase to zoom into signals. One way to reproduce:
Capture the calibrator signal with horizontal set to roll mode with 100ms/div. Press stop. Use the timebase setting to zoom in to 50us/div. Now the waveform is displayed weird. When the horizontal position is turned the waves move weird. On edge stands still while the other edge moves. For some reason only 50us/div has this behaviour.

CONFIRMED
Sent to Siglent.

[nctnico]

I tried the EasyScopeX software again. This time with a USB cable but still no go. The software from NI sees the oscilloscope fine but no go with EasyscopeX.

edit: I downloaded the latest version of EasyscopeX (which now also includes the NI Visa runtime) and that seems to work with USB. LAN is still no-go. The oscilloscope is detected but I get an error saying that 'error_log.txt' is locked because it is used by a different process when I try get a screendump. I really like to see the LAN interface working.

edit2: I also see something is wrong with the USB interface as well. I keep getting messages that the oscilloscope is a full speed (which means USB2.0 480Mbit) device but that it cannot work at that speed so the data transfer is slower than necessary (12Mbit instead of 480Mbit). Yes, I tried several cables and hubs.

[tautech]

I tried the EasyScopeX software again. This time with a USB cable but still no go. The software from NI sees the oscilloscope fine but no go with EasyscopeX.

edit: I downloaded the latest version of EasyscopeX (which now also includes the NI Visa runtime) and that seems to work with USB. LAN is still no-go. The oscilloscope is detected but I get an error saying that 'error_log.txt' is locked because it is used by a different process when I try get a screendump. I really like to see the LAN interface working.

edit2: I also see something is wrong with the USB interface as well. I keep getting messages that the oscilloscope is a full speed (which means USB2.0 480Mbit) device but that it cannot work at that speed so the data transfer is slower than necessary (12Mbit instead of 480Mbit). Yes, I tried several cables and hubs.

LAN
(for others to see as well.  )
From Easyscope select Add Device.
Select Bus/Connection type: VX11
Ensure the scope IP address in Easyscope matches the scope IP (accessed from Utility/ I/O / LAN menu.
Set DHCP to Enable.

Should look like this in the Easyscope Scope Explorer pane:
SDS2304   Active  VX11   TCPIPO::192. 1**.*.***::inst0::INSTR   SDS200**********

Select Send Commands and choose *IDN? which then appears in the Send Commands pane.
Press Enter for your scopes ID and this should appear in the pane below.

For example try a ASET command typed into the Send Command pane for the scope Auto Setup.

USB
From Easyscope select Add Device.
Be sure to select the USBTMC connection/bus type

Should look like this in the Easyscope Scope Explorer pane:
SDS2304   Active  USBTMC   USBO::***********::INSTR   SDS200**********

Then select the Virtual Panel button in the above ribbon for a window that allows mouse control of the full features of the scope.

(PC used: I3 3.3G Win 7 64 bit)


@ nctnico
I have not tried USB 1 for Easyscope control, only USB 2, have you checked your PC USB hubs in Device Manager are USB 2 compliant and have updated drivers?
Nor have I tried connection through a USB hub.

For me it works as expected. 

[nctnico]

Other USB2.0 devices connect at full speed (480Mbit) just fine. It really is the oscilloscope. Maybe there is something marginal in the hardware design.
The problem with the LAN connection is a concurrency bug in the software. The communication works OK but somewhere in the software there are 2 or more processes trying to access the same file. I tried switching from dual core to single core but that didn't solve.
Remember this is with the latest version of the software. The previous version didn't work at all.

[Wuerstchenhund]

edit2: I also see something is wrong with the USB interface as well. I keep getting messages that the oscilloscope is a full speed (which means USB2.0 480Mbit) device but that it cannot work at that speed so the data transfer is slower than necessary (12Mbit instead of 480Mbit). Yes, I tried several cables and hubs.

Be careful with USB hubs, they often cause annoying problems for devices other than keyboard/mice and USB storage. Better connect the scope directly to the computer's USB ports.

Depending on your board you could also try to use an USB port that is connected to a different USB controller port than the ones you use for your other devices.

[nctnico]

I tried that already as well. I have had similar issues with bad USB cables. I did use a USB cable which is quite long because the computer is far from the oscilloscope (hence the wish to use LAN). If the USB hardware is marginal (too much EMC damping) then a longer cable could mess things up.

[tautech]

Other USB2.0 devices connect at full speed (480Mbit) just fine. It really is the oscilloscope.
The problem with the LAN connection is a concurrency bug in the software.
The communication works OK but somewhere in the software there are 2 or more processes trying to access the same file.
I tried switching from dual core to single core but that didn't solve.
Remember this is with the latest version of the software. The previous version didn't work at all.

Please answer for Siglent to assist if necessary.

USB has been enabled in the SDS2000 for months now but you are correct re the LAN firmware it is very recent.

Is your USB connection through a "stand alone" hub or directly to the PC?
OS?

Have you tried re-installing N-Visa after using something like CCleaner?
Is MS Net Framework 3.5 version?

Hopefully we will get this sorted in short order.

I will point Siglent to this post for their comments.

[nctnico]

I installed everything on a freshly installed Windows in a virtual machine on a very fast PC.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I installed everything on a freshly installed Windows in a virtual machine on a very fast PC.

Well, VMs can also be very problematic when used with USB devices that are timing critical.

You should really check it on a native Windows installation (preferably Windows 7) as this could very well be a problem with your setup.

[marmad]

You should really check it on a native Windows installation (preferably Windows 7) as this could very well be a problem with your setup.

It worked fine on my Win 7 x64 machine - on either USB 1.0 or 2.0 ports.

[nctnico]

I installed everything on a freshly installed Windows in a virtual machine on a very fast PC.

Well, VMs can also be very problematic when used with USB devices that are timing critical.

There is no reason why they should. USB is a stream with packets which are received in the order they where send. I have no problem using microcontroller programmers from the same VM.

You should really check it on a native Windows installation (preferably Windows 7) as this could very well be a problem with your setup.

I don't have a Win7 install I can play with. Besides that Linux also complains the device is not capable of running at full speed so the problem is definitely not in the VM but in the USB layer.

@marmad: it works but that doesn't say it works at full speed. I just noticed Linux complained about the oscilloscope being incapable of using the full potential of the USB connection.

edit: I tested with a real Windows XP machine and it also complains there is a full speed device running at the slower 'high speed'.

[Siglent]

I tried the EasyScopeX software again. This time with a USB cable but still no go. The software from NI sees the oscilloscope fine but no go with EasyscopeX.

edit: I downloaded the latest version of EasyscopeX (which now also includes the NI Visa runtime) and that seems to work with USB. LAN is still no-go. The oscilloscope is detected but I get an error saying that 'error_log.txt' is locked because it is used by a different process when I try get a screendump. I really like to see the LAN interface working.

edit2: I also see something is wrong with the USB interface as well. I keep getting messages that the oscilloscope is a full speed (which means USB2.0 480Mbit) device but that it cannot work at that speed so the data transfer is slower than necessary (12Mbit instead of 480Mbit). Yes, I tried several cables and hubs.

we are sorry it brought you trouble, may I have the 'error-log.txt' for analyzing? please send it to support@siglent.com, thank you!

[Siglent]

SDS2000 support SCPI commands through LAN. while You need the latest version of EasyscopeX(P03R5)
http://www.siglent.com/en/server/download.aspx?nodecode=119004002003
you can also use NI-Max.below is my test result.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I installed everything on a freshly installed Windows in a virtual machine on a very fast PC.

Well, VMs can also be very problematic when used with USB devices that are timing critical.

There is no reason why they should. USB is a stream with packets which are received in the order they where send. I have no problem using microcontroller programmers from the same VM.

I've seen issues with USB redirection in VMs on quite a few occasions, including on KVM and XEN under Linux. If that happens then it's usually easy to solve by passing the USB controller through to the VM directly (although this requires a CPU with IOMMU).

But since you tested under native XP it really seems to be a problem with the scope.

[nctnico]

SDS2000 support SCPI commands through LAN. while You need the latest version of EasyscopeX(P03R5)
http://www.siglent.com/en/server/download.aspx?nodecode=119004002003
you can also use NI-Max.below is my test result.

I tried that and the oscilloscope responds fine to SCPI commands over the network. The problem seems to be in EasyscopeX itself. I've send the log files to your e-mail address as requested.

[nctnico]

To conclude the review: I ended up buying a different scope a few months after buying the SDS2204 because I really needed a scope which just worked (decoding, logic channels, cursors, FFT, etc). I tried to return the SDS2204 to the Siglent dealer in the NL but this thread upset him so he didn't want to take it back. A quick calculation showed hiring a lawyer would not be cost effective to get my money back. I sold the SDS2204 with a hefty loss but I in the end I just wanted to get rid of it. It turned out it wasn't very useful as a bring-along scope either. There is no telling what and when Siglent manages to fix or not and looking at other Siglent equipment their progress is slow. It literally takes them years to get firmware to a mature level. The SDG1000 series wasn't so bad but Lecroy probably pushed Siglent to come up with something decent. OTOH judging from the teething problems with other new Siglent equipment (their bench multimeter for example) it is better to buy Siglent gear which has been released a couple of years ago so the firmware had time to mature and in-depth third party reviews are available.

Earlier in this thread someone wrote something along the lines of 'If a piece of equipment isn't ready now don't buy it and hope it will get fixed because you will be dissappointed'. He was utterly right! Expensive lesson learned 

[tautech]

If It's any constelation, I've just received a Siglent Confidential list of fixes and enhancements to the SDS2000 series firmware to be soon released.
All I can say is the bug list you have shared with me has been attended to fully with the Beta FW we are testing.
Siglent have indicated unless we find more fault they intend releasing this new FW very soon.

[marmad]

To conclude the review: I ended up buying a different scope a few months after buying the SDS2204 because I really needed a scope which just worked (decoding, logic channels, cursors, FFT, etc).

If you don't mind me asking, what did you get in the end (or did you start another thread here about it)? A used DSO or something new?

[nctnico]

I bought a used Agilent DSO7104A (4ch 1GHz) with all options (including MSO) for a good price through Ebay from a seller with 0 feedback. Otherwise I probably would have ended up with a Keysight 3000 series or maybe the Lecroy wavesurfer 3000. As a bring-along scope I have bought an older Yokogawa DL1740 (currently 2ch 500MHz).

[Wuerstchenhund]

As a bring-along scope I have bought an older Yokogawa DL1740 (currently 2ch 500MHz).

Nice! Any chance you could do a review?

[nctnico]

As a bring-along scope I have bought an older Yokogawa DL1740 (currently 2ch 500MHz).

Nice! Any chance you could do a review?

That is work in progress:
www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/yokogawa-dl1740-oscilloscope-repair-teardown/msg747159/