Author Topic: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD  (Read 344587 times)

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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2023, 03:22:36 pm »
But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).

Plug&Play "blond" mode is: Connect USB between SDS and SDG(what ever Siglent made AWG,   example SDG2042X including also older models) and after then BodePlot controls it - just select in BP conf menu that connection is USB. No need even touch SDG if use normal 1 channel connection for BP test setup.

(naturally if want do 2 channel system, for example measure DUT what do frequency shift or some other reasons and situations. Example in some cases ref may need different level than DUT in.  These bit more complex BodePlot works are difficult or impossible with single channel generator)
(there is also some other possible applications where two channel mode is nice so that second channel is tracking first channel using frequency or amplitude difference)

Same for LAN connection between SDS and SDG but there user need do least some simple settings for connection (depending how it is routed)

« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 03:29:01 pm by rf-loop »
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Online skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2023, 03:44:04 pm »
But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).

Plug&Play "blond" mode is: Connect USB between SDS and SDG(what ever Siglent made AWG,   example SDG2042X including also older models) and after then BodePlot controls it - just select in BP conf menu that connection is USB. No need even touch SDG if use normal 1 channel connection for BP test setup.

(naturally if want do 2 channel system, for example measure DUT what do frequency shift or some other reasons and situations. Example in some cases ref may need different level than DUT in.  These bit more complex BodePlot works are difficult or impossible with single channel generator)
(there is also some other possible applications where two channel mode is nice so that second channel is tracking first channel using frequency or amplitude difference)

Same for LAN connection between SDS and SDG but there user need do least some simple settings for connection (depending how it is routed)

Ok! Thank you!
I've seen some setups on Youtube with SDS 1104 and SGS2000X but until you don't test by yourself you never know how reliable is. That's why I'm asking.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2023, 04:57:16 pm »
Ok, let's talk electronics!


...
There are some differences, like SDS1000X HD has real hardware 500uV/div, .
....

SDS1000X HD is new gen architecture. Eres is provided as both acquistion mode (hardware) or as a math postprocessing.
No internal AWG.
....


Indeed 500uV/div is what I missed in my short hw comparison replying to Martin72, and is funny because is one of the atracting point for me at SDS1000X HD.
ERES hardware should be interesting to see in action.
No internal AWG. From specs I have concluded that is "Optional" but internal because of thechnical params. The fact that is mentioned there without the specification taht is an external equipment annoy me. But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).

Frankly, at 500uV/div it is going to be hard to see difference. Your measurement setup will be major source of unwanted interference..

ERES is same implementation as on SDS2000 X HD. Up to 3 bits of noise reduction. SDS2000X HD with 200 MHz BW reduction should serve as decent simulation (1000 could have a bit less noise but same ballpark).

I don't see it said explicitly but USB AWG sounds exactly like USB SAG1021I (isolated version). Maybe they will make a black painted version ?  ;D
 

Online skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2023, 05:51:30 pm »
...

I don't see it said explicitly but USB AWG sounds exactly like USB SAG1021I (isolated version). Maybe they will make a black painted version ?  ;D
Initially I was thinking that is a software option (atached) to activate the internal AWG as it it mentioned along with the USB AWG, but looking at the back of the scope I see no Gen Output.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2023, 06:03:39 pm »
...

I don't see it said explicitly but USB AWG sounds exactly like USB SAG1021I (isolated version). Maybe they will make a black painted version ?  ;D
Initially I was thinking that is a software option (atached) to activate the internal AWG as it it mentioned along with the USB AWG, but looking at the back of the scope I see no Gen Output.

Yes that is how they do it: you buy AWG and license to control it from scope is separate. The explanation for this is that if you buy AWG only, and do not have license for AWG on scope, BODE plot will work anyways. That is same as those scopes that have built in AWG. Even if you don't have AWG license BODE works...

Yeah I know a bit complicated, but that is how it is..

As for functionality both SAG1021 and internal AWG in SDS2000X HD are same. Literally.
USB SAG1021I (isolated version) is actually potentially interesting because of isolation...
 

Online skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2023, 06:18:34 pm »
Ok.Not the easy solution, but at least is better than nothing (like HDO1K).
Let see if the price will make it an atractive aquisition.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2023, 06:27:22 pm »
The "old, white" SDS1000X HD has also disappeared from the chinese website:

https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds1000x-hd/

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2023, 06:31:32 pm »
...........
No internal AWG. From specs I have concluded that is "Optional" but internal because of thechnical params. The fact that is mentioned there without the specification taht is an external equipment annoy me. But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).
The clue to SDS1kX HD AWG is the statement USB as it does use SAG1021I which is fully DSO controlled for Bode plot or normal AWG use.
Any standalone Siglent AWG is also supported for Bode plot use where the scopes Bode plot UI takes control of the AWG via USB (plug & play) or via LAN.

USB SAG1021I (isolated version) is actually potentially interesting because of isolation...

Only version now available.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 06:52:32 pm by tautech »
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Online skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2023, 06:51:00 pm »
...........
No internal AWG. From specs I have concluded that is "Optional" but internal because of thechnical params. The fact that is mentioned there without the specification taht is an external equipment annoy me. But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).
The clue to SDS1kX HD AWG is the statement USB as it does use SAG1021I which is fully DSO controlled for Bode plot or normal AWG use.
Any standalone Siglent SWG is also supported for Bode plot use where the scopes Bode plot UI takes control of the AWG via USB (plug & play) or via LAN.

USB SAG1021I (isolated version) is actually potentially interesting because of isolation...

Only version now available.
Thanks! Good news is that work well with Siglents AWG.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2023, 07:00:41 pm »
...........
No internal AWG. From specs I have concluded that is "Optional" but internal because of thechnical params. The fact that is mentioned there without the specification taht is an external equipment annoy me. But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).
The clue to SDS1kX HD AWG is the statement USB as it does use SAG1021I which is fully DSO controlled for Bode plot or normal AWG use.
Any standalone Siglent SWG is also supported for Bode plot use where the scopes Bode plot UI takes control of the AWG via USB (plug & play) or via LAN.

USB SAG1021I (isolated version) is actually potentially interesting because of isolation...

Only version now available.
Thanks! Good news is that work well with Siglents AWG.
All/any Siglent Bode plot DSO's can work with all/any current Siglent AWG model..
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2023, 07:27:32 pm »
Ok.Not the easy solution, but at least is better than nothing (like HDO1K).
Let see if the price will make it an atractive aquisition.

That also gives you option to not pay for AWG in scope in advance if you don't need it.

And if you do need AWG , I would suggest to, instead of buying USB SAG1021I and a scope license, they together cost almost cost the same as buying SDG1032X that is 2 ch fully featured AWG, that also works PnP with the scope for Bode plots (same as SDG2000x/6000x).
I think that is much better deal for few more €.

Of course, some will say that you don't necessarily "need to pay" for AWG license so SAG1021I is much cheaper...
But in the same venue SDG1032X is not SDG1032X but something else....

Basically, if you get SDS1000X HD and you don't have AWG, I would recommend to (if you can afford it, of course ) to go for SDG1032X . You will get BODE plot to as much as AWG support ( ^-^) and fully featured 2ch AWG that will let you do so much more stuff. For instance, much larger output amplitude, modulations, sweeps, etc etc...
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2023, 07:29:37 pm »
Here's an interesting example of the Bode function in the SDS2000X+ utilizing the external SDG2042X AWG.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/injection-locked-peltz-oscillator-with-bode-analysis/

Best,
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Online skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2023, 07:49:48 pm »

Basically, if you get SDS1000X HD and you don't have AWG, I would recommend to (if you can afford it, of course ) to go for SDG1032X .
I already have SDG2042X. I think it's good enough.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2023, 08:11:54 pm »

Basically, if you get SDS1000X HD and you don't have AWG, I would recommend to (if you can afford it, of course ) to go for SDG1032X .
I already have SDG2042X. I think it's good enough.
Even better.. In that case you get only scope and you have it all. SDG1000X/2000X/6000X you can connect with Ethernet or USB.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 08:14:42 pm by 2N3055 »
 
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #64 on: October 01, 2023, 01:22:44 am »
I already have SDG2042X. I think it's good enough.

Haven't you "improved" it to the SDG2122X yet?
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Online skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2023, 08:07:28 am »
I already have SDG2042X. I think it's good enough.

Haven't you "improved" it to the SDG2122X yet?

Of course, this is the reason for what I have aquired this model  ;D
About three years ago ... if I remember well.
 
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Online skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2023, 08:53:27 am »

Basically, if you get SDS1000X HD and you don't have AWG, I would recommend to (if you can afford it, of course ) to go for SDG1032X .
I already have SDG2042X. I think it's good enough.
Even better.. In that case you get only scope and you have it all. SDG1000X/2000X/6000X you can connect with Ethernet or USB.
I don't find anywhere the frequency limit to which Bode plot function is working. Using an external AWG means that we can set the stop frequency to 120 MHz as SDG 2000X can generate? Anybody test that frequency limit? I have other 2 scopes with Bode plot function but they are limited by their internal AWG's to 25 MHZ.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2023, 09:00:44 am »
I don't find anywhere the frequency limit to which Bode plot function is working. Using an external AWG means that we can set the stop frequency to 120 MHz as SDG 2000X can generate? Anybody test that frequency limit? I have other 2 scopes with Bode plot function but they are limited by their internal AWG's to 25 MHZ.
120 MHz is the Bode plot frequency limit for all models when the AWG used can supply such.
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Online skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2023, 09:22:05 am »
I don't find anywhere the frequency limit to which Bode plot function is working. Using an external AWG means that we can set the stop frequency to 120 MHz as SDG 2000X can generate? Anybody test that frequency limit? I have other 2 scopes with Bode plot function but they are limited by their internal AWG's to 25 MHZ.
120 MHz is the Bode plot frequency limit for all models when the AWG used can supply such.

Ok!
In that case the apparent disadvantage of not having an internal AWG, convert into big advantage when you have a compatible external AWG.
I've seen the R&S MXO4 cand generate and use on Bode plot until 100 MHz.
Interesting thing is that the posibility to work with an external generator (limited let say to each other brand model) can be implement by any scope maker as it is just a software application. For their series 1K/4K Rigol can introduce this and boost their AWG sales a little. In fact on any scope, Bode app can be adapted to use/switch an external(known) AWG.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2023, 09:26:01 am »
I don't find anywhere the frequency limit to which Bode plot function is working. Using an external AWG means that we can set the stop frequency to 120 MHz as SDG 2000X can generate? Anybody test that frequency limit? I have other 2 scopes with Bode plot function but they are limited by their internal AWG's to 25 MHZ.
120 MHz is the Bode plot frequency limit for all models when the AWG used can supply such.

Ok!
In that case the apparent disadvantage of not having an internal AWG, convert into big advantage when you have a compatible external AWG.
I've seen the R&S MXO4 cand generate and use on Bode plot until 100 MHz.
Interesting thing is that the posibility to work with an external generator (limited let say to each other brand model) can be implement by any scope maker as it is just a software application. For their series 1K/4K Rigol can introduce this and boost their AWG sales a little. In fact on any scope, Bode app can be adapted to use/switch an external(known) AWG.
Some study for you here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/
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Online skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2023, 09:50:01 am »

Some study for you here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/
Thank you! I know this thread. I have also the Feeltch. Few years ago I tried a python script wrote by THM (if I remember well) for Rigol 5k when it didn't have Bode plot function.
But for Siglent having the app open for extenal AWG's is a good field to play.
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2023, 09:57:57 am »
I don't find anywhere the frequency limit to which Bode plot function is working. Using an external AWG means that we can set the stop frequency to 120 MHz as SDG 2000X can generate? Anybody test that frequency limit? I have other 2 scopes with Bode plot function but they are limited by their internal AWG's to 25 MHZ.
As is common for the "Siglent Armada", there are not just claims but plenty proof and lots of demonstrations for the various capabilities. The dynamic range over the full frequency range up to 120 MHz for a reference level of +18 dBm has been demonstrated here (reply #9):

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1x04x-e-bodeplot-ii-(sfra)-features-and-testing-(coming)/msg2479809/#msg2479809

The whole thread contains tons of information, yet it is from 2019 and for the little SDS1104X-E, whereas Bode Plot developement has not stopped back then. It is even nicer on the higher class touchscreen machines like SDS1000X HD and up.

To summarize the unique points of the Siglent Bode Plot:
  • Three channels
  • Frequency range up to 120 MHz
  • More than 100 dB dynamic range at lower frequencies

EDIT: reference level corrected to +18 dBm; forgot to take the splitter into account...
« Last Edit: October 02, 2023, 04:17:17 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Online skander36

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2023, 11:05:14 am »
Thank you. A well documented thread!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2023, 01:08:19 pm by skander36 »
 

Online Martin72

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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2023, 11:36:09 pm »
The prices for the 3000X HD in China.
If they remain the same here, I find them very humane.
And attractive. 8)
 
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