EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: TopQuark on September 26, 2023, 12:45:40 pm
-
Feel free to translate it, but tldr is
SDS3000X HD
- 12 bits
- 1GHz bandwidth
- 4Gsps
- active probe interface
SDS1000X HD - updated
- still 12 bits
- now dark themed
- now 2Gsps
- now 500k wfm/s
Source: https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/ZnNZotzQ3Qb17i6SSwaEHw
As an SDS2000X HD user who hasn’t received a software update for around a year, I feel shafted ::)
-
As an SDS2000X HD user who hasn’t received a software update for around a year, I feel shafted ::)
This sentiment seems funny to me. Do people think Siglent has only 5 employees who can either work on firmware OR hardware?
That's silly. Besides, you should understand that Siglent builds platforms, and it's likely that the 2KHD series will benefit from the existence of the 3KHD and 1KHD stuff.
Or would you prefer they push firmware out before it's ready? Don't get me wrong, I'm also impatiently waiting for a firmware update for my SDS2K+, but it will be out...eventually.
-
As an SDS2000X HD user who hasn’t received a software update for around a year, I feel shafted ::)
More than once I've hinted on the new entry level HD instrument, which will not be the same as the SDS1000X HD sold in China so far. Now here you have it "officially". Yes, it is just an "updated" 1000X HD - depending on the pricing it might rather be that the Chinese customers of the previous 1000X HD might feel "shafted"...
What about Rigol DHO4000 users? Do they have to feel shafted because of the DHO1000? (or 900, 800?)
I've also given a preview on future firmware, so we all can know that there is progress. Yet requests keep coming in and even though many of them might look like an easy task to perform a supposedly simple change or introduce a little new feature, the ones with some insight in firmware development will know that such projects are never easy and might require a major redesign of certain parts of the software.
-
As an SDS2000X HD user who hasn’t received a software update for around a year, I feel shafted ::)
This sentiment seems funny to me. Do people think Siglent has only 5 employees who can either work on firmware OR hardware?
That's silly. Besides, you should understand that Siglent builds platforms, and it's likely that the 2KHD series will benefit from the existence of the 3KHD and 1KHD stuff.
Or would you prefer they push firmware out before it's ready? Don't get me wrong, I'm also impatiently waiting for a firmware update for my SDS2K+, but it will be out...eventually.
Guys, chill out. I paid good money for a scope, just want to see some love from Siglent for the product, that's it.
It's a light jab at Siglent, don't read too much into it. I still love my 2k HD and don't regret buying it.
-
What's all this new trend with "dark themes"? ::)
-
Its a wavesurfer 4000HD with a Siglent badge
-
The ADCs are likely to be the same.
Otherwise, the Lecroy only has 25Mpts of memory, but the larger screen (12") with the higher resolution (1200x800).
It's interesting that Siglent sticks to the 1024x600 anyway.
Datasheet of the 4000HD:
https://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/wavesurfer-4000hd-datasheet.pdf
-
Its a wavesurfer 4000HD with a Siglent badge
I'm not sure...
I cannot find info if SDS3000X HD is 12.1" screen. And it is 2x4GS/s not 2X5GS/s like LeCroy.
Direct mapping to WS 4000HD is mine SDS6000H12 PRO 1GHz only with 2x5GS/s. That one is different than 2GHz version.
-
Whoever is interested
Attached SDS1000X HD datasheet(google translate)
-
Its a wavesurfer 4000HD with a Siglent badge
I'm not sure...
I cannot find info if SDS3000X HD is 12.1" screen. And it is 2x4GS/s not 2X5GS/s like LeCroy.
Direct mapping to WS 4000HD is mine SDS6000H12 PRO 1GHz only with 2x5GS/s. That one is different than 2GHz version.
Looking at some data, SDS3000X HD is same form factor as SDS2000X HD (10,2" screen) with active probe interface and other upgraded specs..
-
It´s looking good, the specs..Black is...OK. ;)
USB 3.0, 4 MPts FFT...nice.
1Ghz/750 Mhz at 1M/50Ohm.
Price...Guessing it would be under the 6000A(premium line), above the 5000X.
I want it. 8)
1000X HD:
Lower screen resolution and no video output, everything else is above the DHO1000 - Now.
Price could be interesting, my guess is above the 2000Xplus.
-
As an SDS2000X HD user who hasn’t received a software update for around a year, I feel shafted ::)
You musn´t.
New decoder function and four math channels and perhaps something else from our "wishlist" will come.
And maybe the auto-sense probe bug and a fixing for it delay the launch.....In that case I like to wait for it.
-
Whoever is interested
Attached SDS1000X HD datasheet(google translate)
Thank you.
Thread updated with latest datasheet and image.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-coming/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-coming/)
-
SDS1000X HD - updated
- still 12 bits
- now dark themed
- now 2Gsps
- now 500k wfm/s
Just enough to keep me holding out for the SDS1000X HD now. Not sure I enjoy the dark themed (I really like white) but the specifications push out for me over the new DHO900.
Now to be patient... :scared:
-
At least I'm not alone with this dark theme nonsense :)
-
What's all this new trend with "dark themes"? ::)
I'm just speculating, but maybe Siglent had to make a clear distinction from the previous SDS1000X HD. Think about the confusion in China, when you want to buy an SDS1000X HD but could not know whether it's old stock or a revised unit if there was no obvious difference. The same goes for the 2nd hand market.
Apart from that, Siglent instruments generally have a serious industrial look, so I would be unpleasantly surprised if they jump on the "cool & playful" theme for anything above the entry level.
-
the dark theme looks high-quality and high-level,at least i think so,hahahahaha
-
...
1000X HD:
Lower screen resolution and no video output, everything else is above the DHO1000 - Now.
...
I don't see this "everything else".
Core system is the same:
Single ADC
2 GS/s
200 MHz
12 bit
100 Mpts
noise floor 70uV
And if the price will be double than DHO1K then ...
-
...
1000X HD:
Lower screen resolution and no video output, everything else is above the DHO1000 - Now.
...
I don't see this "everything else".
Core system is the same:
Single ADC
2 GS/s
200 MHz
12 bit
100 Mpts
noise floor 70uV
And if the price will be double than DHO1K then ...
Superior math
Segmented and hystory mode that works
Superior measurements
If you just want to look at the vaweforms and do not need advanced analysis then by all means go with cheaper one. No need to give more money for features you dont need..
-
Superior math
Segmented and hystory mode that works
Superior measurements
Plus:
50 Ohm inputs
Autosense inputs
Int. awg
Bodeplot
More decoder protocols
Better DC accuracy
Etc., etc.
-
...
1000X HD:
Lower screen resolution and no video output, everything else is above the DHO1000 - Now.
...
I don't see this "everything else".
Core system is the same:
Single ADC
2 GS/s
200 MHz
12 bit
100 Mpts
noise floor 70uV
And if the price will be double than DHO1K then ...
Superior math
Segmented and hystory mode that works
Superior measurements
If you just want to look at the vaweforms and do not need advanced analysis then by all means go with cheaper one. No need to give more money for features you dont need..
This doesn't mean that everything else ... It has some features (AWG, Bode) for which siglent will try to ask more money ...
-
Superior math
Segmented and hystory mode that works
Superior measurements
Plus:
50 Ohm inputs
Autosense inputs
Int. awg
Bodeplot
More decoder protocols
Better DC accuracy
Etc., etc.
As for 2N3055, this does not sound to me everything else, The core parameters are the same. Just not overestimate it. I am waiting for this scope but with this new look and upgrades this seem to me that Siglent will try to push it to a more pricey zone ...
-
And 10" display.
Webserver is superior.
-
Superior math
Segmented and hystory mode that works
Superior measurements
Plus:
50 Ohm inputs
Autosense inputs
Int. awg
Bodeplot
More decoder protocols
Better DC accuracy
Etc., etc.
As for 2N3055, this does not sound to me everything else, The core parameters are the same. Just not overestimate it. I am waiting for this scope but with this new look and upgrades this seem to me that Siglent will try to push it to a more pricey zone ...
You asked and got your answer. It is superior in it's capabilities, having many functions that were until few years ago only in mid range scopes, some that even DHO4000 does not have (at least at the moment). As I said, if you don't need that, than you should go with simpler and cheaper scope if that one is satisfying your requirements.
I'm sure many people don't need advanced functions and will be more than happy with a simpler scope that still have decent analog performance. And is very affordable. Fantastic news for them.
Fact that advanced functions are not of use to you doesn't make simple cheaper scope equal in capabilities to one that has more capabilities.
It simply means you shouldn't get something that you will not use in full. It would be waste of money..
What the actual price of SDS1000X HD in EU market will be, I have no clue and will not speculate. Even if somebody knows, they won't say anything before Siglent authorizes release of scope and publication of the price in which case it will be published for everyone to know anyways. Same as any other manufacturer.
-
...
You asked and got your answer. It is superior in it's capabilities, having many functions that were until few years ago only in mid range scopes, some that even DHO4000 does not have (at least at the moment)....
Please read carefully what I have said. I didn't ask. I have made an observation. I am not agree with that expression " Everyithing else", because the scope is basically in the same configuration (I said why) as HDO 1K, plus some whistles, and minus others ...
-
...
You asked and got your answer. It is superior in it's capabilities, having many functions that were until few years ago only in mid range scopes, some that even DHO4000 does not have (at least at the moment)....
Please read carefully what I have said. I didn't ask. I have made an observation. I am not agree with that expression " Everyithing else", because the scope is basically in the same configuration (I said why) as HDO 1K, plus some whistles, and minus others ...
I don't want to argue or offend you but you are not correct. I read it and it is you who underestimates.
In addition to what DHO1000 has, SDS1000X HD will additionally have (just most important facts):
- 50Ω inputs
- 0,5% DC accuracy (5mV/div and up)
- much larger offset range. Very useful in power electronics work.
-4 full math channels. That means arbitrary formula math.
- Layout of measurements where you can have 5 measurements with full stats and histograms for all the measurements at the same time. That alone is worth buying it. You should try and you would understand.
- Trend plots
- Track plot
- 2Mpoint FFT with full parameter control
- Bode Plot II with multiple channels.
- MSO capability (1 GS/s speed)
- Power analysis suite...
- Segmented mode with full functionality (measurements, math, decode etc)
- History mode with full functionality (measurements, math, decode etc)
- I won't compare decoding because that is moving target and both will have more than enough. But it will have CAN FD and FlexRay at release.
In analytic features SDS1000X HD is closer (and even better in many parameters) to LeCroy WaveSurfer 4000HD.
Saying it "basically the same" as a barebone simple scope with just basic analytic capabilities, because it also has 12 bit converters, similar amount of memory and similar 10" screen is simply not true.
That doesn't devalue or attempts to show Rigol DHO1000 as being bad. I think it is a great little scope for the money, an affordable way to get decent 12 bit performance (I'm trusting here to published data, unless someone proves different. I didn't verify it myself.) . But limited it is, and that is not my fault. Don't shoot the messenger. Rigol decided to make it simpler to keep the price low. I don't imply that Rigol as manufacturer is somehow inferior and couldn't make a more capable scope. Of course they could, they are serious company. It was deliberate conscious decision on their part to target that part of market, lover cost part. They obviously have a calculation that it will sell in numbers they will be happy with in this config.
For the more demanding use, they will bet on DHO4000 and probably develop that one more with time. They might even release DHO2000 that will be something in the middle. Who knows...
But historically Rigol didn't try to emulate LeCroy type of analytic scopes, but where more Keysight type (given their history, not surprising).
In this new series they actually emulate R&S in some regards. Math channels config is modeled after RTB2000. Graphical channel setup resembles some R&S solutions. They dropped very high WFMS/s from previous generation and now have more slow refresh rates (in normal acquisition mode). And UltraAcq is a copy of FastAcq from Tektronix that had very limited capabilities, and unfortunately they copied that too.
OTOH, Siglent makes scopes similar in philosophy to LeCroy. That are pretty much best analytic scopes. Which also means some people don't like them (they are not meant to be analog CRT scope replacement) or know how to use them. Too complicated, too mathy....Many people just want to see some squiggles on the screen, do some measurements, cursors etc. To be able to stop acquisition, move around, decode some protocols every now and then. That is very fine. Good for them. But fact that I have no use for something does not make it useless.
In that case proper thing to say would be : I have no use for these advanced features this product has. This other product simpler, but has all the features I need and better price. To me it provides better value and in practical terms, because of my limited use, it will provide me with equivalent service, because although this other product is more capable I would never use those advanced features so it is same to me.
And you would make a good decision in that case.
-
I said what I want to say ...
For me is the same .
Single ADC
2 GS/s
200 MHz
12 bit
100 Mpts
noise floor 70uV
and also 4 MATH Channels !
-
I have a car, a Skoda, it has four wheels and a steering wheel.
A Mercedes also has only four wheels and a steering wheel.
So everything is good, no reason to argue.
-
I have a car, a Skoda, it has four wheels and a steering wheel.
A Mercedes also has only four wheels and a steering wheel.
So everything is good, no reason to argue.
You make the same mistake as before.
This is what I'm trying to say. Siglent is not Mercedes, is just a SEAT if Rigol is a SKODA ;D
-
Rigol is a SKODA ;D
I never heard of Skoda before, but they look a lot nicer than anything Rigol has ever produced. 🤷
-
I said what I want to say ...
For me is the same .
Single ADC
2 GS/s
200 MHz
12 bit
100 Mpts
noise floor 70uV
and also 4 MATH Channels !
At this point you either really don't understand the difference, which is sad because education was offered but not accepted or you are deliberately provoking...
I rest my case. To you, it is the same. I get it. Sorry for bothering you.
-
I have a car, a Skoda, it has four wheels and a steering wheel.
A Mercedes also has only four wheels and a steering wheel.
So everything is good, no reason to argue.
I also have a skoda, and would pick a skoda over a mercedes any day (i also work with cars so this comes from different angles >:D still hoping for the skoda version of the multivan, but i will probably get a scudo when the time comes, hopefully then we'll haveno another diesel engine from fiat, not that crap from PSA - wonder if they will go to lawsuit, who has it knows why)
i would never say a skoda is like rigol
dacia/renault is like rigol, fairly good cheap stuff but can't write software, nor design an UI for shit
skoda is like siglent, cheapish, good quality hardware and good software
To bring some meaningful words to this thread, seems to me this new 3000X HD overlaps the 5000X
I also wonder, will we see updates/features trickle down on the older architecture as well? I'm a bit out of the loop, i don't know how much the HD software architecture shares with the X/X-E
-
At this point you either really don't understand the difference, which is sad because education was offered but not accepted or you are deliberately provoking...
I rest my case. To you, it is the same. I get it. Sorry for bothering you.
Good decision, because you don't offer education, that btw I don't ask , but you just defend Siglent brand with any means.
I can also compile facts and feature for Rigol scope, but I don't intend to defend Rigol nor to "educate" you.
Personally I like the Siglent scopes from 2000x/plus HD series, but persistence with wich "Siglent Armada", as someone said, try to defend the brand, make me feel unconfortable and stay away. I don't see why the Siglent need to be defended/promoted against Rigol.
I am a potential buyer of Siglent 1000X HD even if I have Rigol HD1000. I know very well the features are you talking, but as long the core performance is the same, the scopes are in the same boat.
In the end the price will decide. I see two category of buyers:
1.Those that have a lab already equiped and want a 12 bit scope at a reasonable price (they don't want to go into 3K euros zone)
2.First time buyers that want a 12 bit scope with basic features.(they for sure don't search for trend plot, pk-pk in stats or such).
And both will choose Rigol HD series if the price will be too high.
-
At this point you either really don't understand the difference, which is sad because education was offered but not accepted or you are deliberately provoking...
I rest my case. To you, it is the same. I get it. Sorry for bothering you.
Good decision, because you don't offer education, that btw I don't ask , but you just defend Siglent brand with any means.
I don't defend Siglent by any means.
It is you who came to topic about Siglent with your Rigol fanning, and keep repeating complete nonsense. Those two scopes are not "basically the same" and will never be until Rigol implements all the missing features. Which are many and we literally listed them to you.
And since I have opinion of you to be intelligent person, I ascribed it to, maybe, misunderstanding.. Hence my repeated attempts to explain you where you are wrong.
Information sharing is a sort of education, if listener is willing.
I can also compile facts and feature for Rigol scope, but I don't intend to defend Rigol nor to "educate" you.
Personally I like the Siglent scopes from 2000x/plus HD series, but persistence with wich "Siglent Armada", as someone said, try to defend the brand, make me feel unconfortable and stay away. I don't see why the Siglent need to be defended/promoted against Rigol.
I am a potential buyer of Siglent 1000X HD even if I have Rigol HD1000. I know very well the features are you talking, but as long the core performance is the same, the scopes are in the same boat.
In the end the price will decide. I see two category of buyers:
1.Those that have a lab already equiped and want a 12 bit scope at a reasonable price (they don't want to go into 3K euros zone)
2.First time buyers that want a 12 bit scope with basic features.(they for sure don't search for trend plot, pk-pk in stats or such).
And both will choose Rigol HD series if the price will be too high.
Again, YOU are in Siglent scope topic.. You SHOULD compile list of what features DHO1000 has and has not and compare it, because obviously you didn't. Otherwise you wouldn't repeat complete nonsense.
"In my left hand I have specification on 3 pages what one scope can do , in other hand I have single page. Yep, basically the same...!"
In what opposite universe that is correct ?
"This two cars are basically the same because they both have 4 wheels of same dimensions, similar size engine and similar length".
These similarities might put them in same category, but cars could be very, very different.
Maybe we have a problem in communication: "basically the same " has a meaning of "almost exactly the same except minor details".
Maybe you meant "they have very similar specifications of basic functions" ??? That I agree. They have similar basic specifications in resolution, memory size, noise performance and screen type and size.
I repeated several times exactly that : what is common is very basic specifications, and that Rigol seems to have provided scope with decent analog performance and , 12 bit. And there is where similarity stops.
So, with a lack of evidence or facts about your statements, your next tactics is character assignation and conspiracy theories. I cannot be trusted because "I work for somebody" or am a part of "Siglent armada".... For crying out loud...
And then you state two legitimate points that pretty much came from my responses to you:
1.Those that have a lab already equiped and want a 12 bit scope at a reasonable price (they don't want to go into 3K euros zone)
2.First time buyers that want a 12 bit scope with basic features.(they for sure don't search for trend plot, pk-pk in stats or such).
And both will choose Rigol HD series if the price will be too high.
Look at my responses. I literally made those recommendations. More than once.. Yes, I recommended in a Siglent topic that people who don't need advanced math or analytics should look into these new Rigol 12 bit series as an inexpensive entry into 12 bit world.
More than once. Like a real Siglent shill would do ..
But I disagreed with you so I'm a shill. Bad news for you: I'm not, facts are on my side.
And when I was talking how Picoscope was good in this and that I was Picoscope shill, and when I was saying how great Keysight 3000T is in some things I was attacked that I'm elitist because not everybody has Keysight 3000T series..
Don't shoot the messenger..
-
Yeah, whatever you say ...
You really like to talk ...
-
Human translation, hope provides better reading UI.
This is un-Official translation, NOT related to Siglent, it's just my personal work for contribution.
By the way,
For SDS1000X HD, now it's 2GSa/s, totally meet my needs, I am so eager to get one!
Personally I am a Siglent's Fan, I prefer Siglent's UI; and Recently Rigol has release so many powerful competitors in entry level, honestly I was a bit crucial why Siglent don't fight back and provide similar product.
Till I saw SDS1000X HD, yes! Totally and Finally!
I used to be struggling about that 1GSas/s, I need a least 2GSa/s, but look at Siglent's list, 12bit+2GSA+800USD=none :palm:
Now SDS1000X HD is 565USD, if the upgraded version is still~600USD, I will definitely get one!
I guess till 11/11 it would be in stock in TAOBAO, now the official store still sells the "old" version so......keep waiting.
-
Human translation, hope provides better reading UI.
This is un-Official translation, NOT related to Siglent, it's just my personal work for contribution.
By the way,
For SDS1000X HD, now it's 2GSa/s, totally meet my needs, I am so eager to get one!
Personally I am a Siglent's Fan, I prefer Siglent's UI; and Recently Rigol has release so many powerful competitors in entry level, honestly I was a bit crucial why Siglent don't fight back and provide similar product.
Till I saw SDS1000X HD, yes! Totally and Finally!
I used to be struggling about that 1GSas/s, I need a least 2GSa/s, but look at Siglent's list, 12bit+2GSA+800USD=none :palm:
Now SDS1000X HD is 565USD, if the upgraded version is still~600USD, I will definitely get one!
I guess till 11/11 it would be in stock in TAOBAO, now the official store still sells the "old" version so......keep waiting.
Thank you for the translation.
As for prices, I would wait for release... Not only manufacturers change them all the time, but compare with each other and also shape different prices for different markets.
SDS3000X HD and new version of SDS1000X HD was released in China. What and when will be in the rest of the world we have yet to see.
-
I just don't get the low-res LCD on the hi-res scope. 1024 * 600 is probably the lowest resolution available on a 10" display. They were making 10" tablets with 2560×1600 resolution LCDs over a decade ago. Why not at least go for HD? At a minimum give me a pixel for every 3 bits of ADC resolution (1024 vertical in the signal display area). More would help when having multiple windows up. :-\
-
Yeah, whatever you say ...
You really like to talk ...
Yes 2N3055 is slightly Siglent biased, but provides very knowledgable and useful information that a wise one should listen too, like this quote from above.
Maybe we have a problem in communication: "basically the same " has a meaning of "almost exactly the same except minor details".
Maybe you meant "they have very similar specifications of basic functions" ??? That I agree. They have similar basic specifications in resolution, memory size, noise performance and screen type and size.
I repeated several times exactly that : what is common is very basic specifications, and that Rigol seems to have provided scope with decent analog performance and , 12 bit. And there is where similarity stops.
That pretty much conveys the similarity and differences under discussion.
2N3055 has shown to be a great technical resource here, with highly valuable "hands on" experience, unlike some that have little if any "hands on". We acquired a Picoscope 4262 (he has one) mostly because of his hands on experience and much earlier had acquired our 1st DSO (Siglent) because of the careful monitoring of the various folks responded on here and developed a hint of a very few to listen to with high regard, 2N3055 was one of those BTW!!!
Some may consider us a Siglent Fanboy, we do have a majority of Siglent gear (2 SDS2000X+, 3 SPD3303X-E, SSA31021X, SDG2042X, SDG6022X, SDL1020X-E, SDM3065X), and a bunch of Keysight, a Keithly, a GW-Instek and so on. No serious complaints with the Siglent gear, some are superb like the SDS2000X+, and some so-so like SDM3065X. We use this equipment for our work, altho our work supports one of our hobbies which happens to be electronics ;D
BTW we just ordered a Rigol DHO 814 to evaluate for a client, to give a fare evaluation for said client and not just be a Siglent fanboy and recommend a Siglent. One reasons we suggested the Rigol to evaluate is it seems to fit the needed requirements well with small form factor, low noise, 12 bit, low cost, possible 12V operation and so on, there's no need for various "other" higher end features tho. This may end up being supplied with the OEM instrument in production, so important to pick the proper DSO for this requirement. So would a Siglent Fanboy do this? Probably not!!! If you study our posts we generally don't degrade things we don't have hands on evaluations of and don't recommend things we don't have 1st hand knowledge, including hands on experience with.
Anyway, whichever path you take with your DSO/MSO wanderings will likely be a fun path, as there are no "wrong" answers today with the equipment choices available, even at hobbyist price levels!! The worst that could happen is one would find after some time with the new DSO, that some "hidden" from plain sight features might might be desirable....then the "cycle" repeats ;)
Of course one could listen to knowledgable folks like 2N3055 and maybe avoid at least a few of these "recycles", we've all been there done that tho :-[
Best
-
Interesting times, as when they go trough the border and prices do not changes that much
SDS3104X HD, 1 GHz, 4 + EXT, 4 GSa/s, 890,000 wfm/s, 400 Mpts/ch, 12-bit, ¥43,880, Euro 5682
SDS3054X HD, 500 MHz, 4 + EXT, 4 GSa/s, 890,000 wfm/s, 400 Mpts/ch, 12-bit, ¥33,880, Euro 4387
SDS3034X HD, 350 MHz, 4 + EXT, 4 GSa/s, 890,000 wfm/s, 400 Mpts/ch, 12-bit, ¥27,880, Euro 3610
-
Yeah, whatever you say ...
You really like to talk ...
Yes 2N3055 is slightly Siglent biased, but provides very knowledgable and useful information that a wise one should listen too, like this quote from above.
Maybe we have a problem in communication: "basically the same " has a meaning of "almost exactly the same except minor details".
Maybe you meant "they have very similar specifications of basic functions" ??? That I agree. They have similar basic specifications in resolution, memory size, noise performance and screen type and size.
I repeated several times exactly that : what is common is very basic specifications, and that Rigol seems to have provided scope with decent analog performance and , 12 bit. And there is where similarity stops.
That pretty much conveys the similarity and differences under discussion.
2N3055 has shown to be a great technical resource here, with highly valuable "hands on" experience, unlike some that have little if any "hands on". We acquired a Picoscope 4262 (he has one) mostly because of his hands on experience and much earlier had acquired our 1st DSO (Siglent) because of the careful monitoring of the various folks responded on here and developed a hint of a very few to listen to with high regard, 2N3055 was one of those BTW!!!
Some may consider us a Siglent Fanboy, we do have a majority of Siglent gear (2 SDS2000X+, 3 SPD3303X-E, SSA31021X, SDG2042X, SDG6022X, SDL1020X-E, SDM3065X), and a bunch of Keysight, a Keithly, a GW-Instek and so on. No serious complaints with the Siglent gear, some are superb like the SDS2000X+, and some so-so like SDM3065X. We use this equipment for our work, altho our work supports one of our hobbies which happens to be electronics ;D
BTW we just ordered a Rigol DHO 814 to evaluate for a client, to give a fare evaluation for said client and not just be a Siglent fanboy and recommend a Siglent. One reasons we suggested the Rigol to evaluate is it seems to fit the needed requirements well with small form factor, low noise, 12 bit, low cost, possible 12V operation and so on, there's no need for various "other" higher end features tho. This may end up being supplied with the OEM instrument in production, so important to pick the proper DSO for this requirement. So would a Siglent Fanboy do this? Probably not!!! If you study our posts we generally don't degrade things we don't have hands on evaluations of and don't recommend things we don't have 1st hand knowledge, including hands on experience with.
Anyway, whichever path you take with your DSO/MSO wanderings will likely be a fun path, as there are no "wrong" answers today with the equipment choices available, even at hobbyist price levels!! The worst that could happen is one would find after some time with the new DSO, that some "hidden" from plain sight features might might be desirable....then the "cycle" repeats ;)
Of course one could listen to knowledgable folks like 2N3055 and maybe avoid at least a few of these "recycles", we've all been there done that tho :-[
Best
This does not justify furibund posts like the last of 2N3055. Agreeing you encourage such atitude.
-
I don't know what "furibund" means but the idea of comparing DSO base specs like it's Top Trumps seems very weird to me.
I mean, sure, if you need e.g. 500 MHz bandwidth, then you need 500 MHz bandwidth. But beyond that DSOs are some of the most complex test equipment in most labs and differ a lot when it comes to software and features. The one that does what you want (in a way that is efficient for you) might be "worse" on paper and cost twice as much. Or it might not, nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't have expected this to be a particularly controversial take.
-
I wouldn't have expected this to be a particularly controversial take.
Neither do I, also about conspiracy theory.
I am interested about this osciloscope even before this new version, in prior stage with 1 Gs/s. Why, while I already have HDO1K? Just because of software. I am very aware about it's software, after reading tons of post, specs and youtube reviews about SDS2000+ or HD, because I expect (from first images) that SDS 1000x HD to have the same software with all his good features. So I am not interested comparing software. Tautech and RFLoop also has showed images with this first version so I know what I need to know. I am particulalry interested in hardware platform because I had a not too happy experience with SDS1202X-E which had a hardware that does not helped too much (ERES, FFT). So for Siglent I check first the hardware. The software is the "study" part, and on my side. If I'm interested about a detail, I will ask.
If you read my first post I have write the HW similarities. It's clear that I not included the software.
-
I don't know what "furibund" means but the idea of comparing DSO base specs like it's Top Trumps seems very weird to me.
I mean, sure, if you need e.g. 500 MHz bandwidth, then you need 500 MHz bandwidth. But beyond that DSOs are some of the most complex test equipment in most labs and differ a lot when it comes to software and features. The one that does what you want (in a way that is efficient for you) might be "worse" on paper and cost twice as much. Or it might not, nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't have expected this to be a particularly controversial take.
"furibund" means angry and full of rage...
And I agree with you 100 %. You should always try to solve any problem with least possible energy or investment.
Hence proverb: "Do not use a cannon to kill a mosquito.".
But repeatedly insisting that because you can kill mosquito with both flyswatter and cannon that makes them "basically the same" is just completely wrong ....
I don't see anything enraged in my posts. I very politely pointed out to what I see as inaccurate statements on his part. I said that I consider him intelligent and presumed we have misunderstanding. At which I got back an answer that basically called me names and that he has no intention to prove his point with facts because he prefers to just be obnoxious. After which, I, still politely pointed out that it is my opinion that it is he whom is derailing a topic and that he should talk about facts.
And now he is instructing other people to disagree with me because he is right and I should be punished because I disagree with him on this topic....
That is a summary of it.
-
"furibund" means angry and full of rage...
....
Clear you are angry, otherwise you didn't write so ...
I was trying to not answer to your post just because for me it put you in a not very honorable position. I don't want you to repeat that.
And now he is instructing other people to disagree with me because he is right and I should be punished because I disagree with him on this topic....
again you put on me things that only you think about.
Nobody said nothing about punishment. Only ideea it is so stupid.
"Instruct" ... really?
As for to be a "shill"
I did think of you that you are a shill. "Siglent Armada" means a group users of this forum that try too often to bring into discussion superiority of Siglent equipment over other brands. At least for me. Sometime this thing is annoiyng and generate opposite efect. Nothing about conpiracy theory and such, that you try to acredited me about.
That is a summary of it.
People will have their opinion beside of what we want to project.
-
Gentlemen, stay cool. You're all big boys that share the same hobby. Don't let words ruin the healthy exchange of knowledge.
Remember this is a place to increase the happiness the hobby brings to your lives, not to get into ridiculous word exchanges (that many times have different weights in our living places).
:popcorn:
-
You are right TV84 . It's closed for me.
-
I wouldn't have expected this to be a particularly controversial take.
Neither do I, also about conspiracy theory.
I am interested about this osciloscope even before this new version, in prior stage with 1 Gs/s. Why, while I already have HDO1K? Just because of software. I am very aware about it's software, after reading tons of post, specs and youtube reviews about SDS2000+ or HD, because I expect (from first images) that SDS 1000x HD to have the same software with all his good features. So I am not interested comparing software. Tautech and RFLoop also has showed images with this first version so I know what I need to know. I am particulalry interested in hardware platform because I had a not too happy experience with SDS1202X-E which had a hardware that does not helped too much (ERES, FFT). So for Siglent I check first the hardware. The software is the "study" part, and on my side. If I'm interested about a detail, I will ask.
If you read my first post I have write the HW similarities. It's clear that I not included the software.
Ok. Thank you for finally explaining what your problem here is.
You say you are not interested in software, for the sake of your internal comparison process. That is fine..
But when you use language, the words, they have predefined meaning, meaning that language definition prescribes and defines. Using it differently means you are saying and stating wrong facts..
To explain exactly what you now explained, something like this would have better explained what you just described: " I don't care now for the difference in software (showing your awareness there are differences) , it is all the same to me for this particular comparison I only compare hardware for now".
And I would try to answer to you about hardware as much as I could, and if I had no additional info from what other already posted I would have not post at all..
In summary, could we stop further escalation of this disagreement and move on to actually helping each other?
I have no quarrel with you. I find you to be intelligent and generally nice. This is all generally misunderstanding and a bit of language barrier all the way, the way I see it.
You are interested in specification of hardware platform comparison from HDO1000 <-> SDS100X HD ?
As I said it will be pretty much comparable in terms of front end noise, adc ENOB and memory length.
There are some differences, like SDS1000X HD has real hardware 500uV/div, ADC will have different spurs (that will have to characterized on production samples when available), and SDS1000X HD has full memory standard and it is an option on Rigol (if you don't hack it). While this might mean something to someone these specifications are "basically the same".
SDS1202X-E is very much divorced from architecture of X HD series. If you had any critique about it it does not directly apply to newer scopes , not even SDS1104X-E that is different design.
SDS1000X HD is new gen architecture. Eres is provided as both acquistion mode (hardware) or as a math postprocessing.
FFT is going to be 2MPts, but more importantly it will be new same type as all other higher range brothers.
What I know now is that it is up to 200MHz BW, 2GS/s single ch, 1GS/s 2 ch, 500 MS/s 2/4 ch. 200MHz BW has 70uV noise floor (for full BW, with BW limiting and ERES less as usual). No internal AWG.
If you have specific question about incoming hardware/software in SDS1000X HD please ask here. Maybe we can even get some clarification from horses mouth.
-
Gentlemen, stay cool. You're all big boys that share the same hobby. Don't let words ruin the healthy exchange of knowledge.
Remember this is a place to increase the happiness the hobby brings to your lives, not to get into ridiculous word exchanges (that many times have different weights in our living places).
:popcorn:
Thank you.
You are right TV84 . It's closed for me.
I have no problem with you whatsoever. It is just a discussion, heated or not.
-
Ok, let's talk electronics!
...
There are some differences, like SDS1000X HD has real hardware 500uV/div, .
....
SDS1000X HD is new gen architecture. Eres is provided as both acquistion mode (hardware) or as a math postprocessing.
No internal AWG.
....
Indeed 500uV/div is what I missed in my short hw comparison replying to Martin72, and is funny because is one of the atracting point for me at SDS1000X HD.
ERES hardware should be interesting to see in action.
No internal AWG. From specs I have concluded that is "Optional" but internal because of thechnical params. The fact that is mentioned there without the specification taht is an external equipment annoy me. But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).
-
But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).
Plug&Play "blond" mode is: Connect USB between SDS and SDG(what ever Siglent made AWG, example SDG2042X including also older models) and after then BodePlot controls it - just select in BP conf menu that connection is USB. No need even touch SDG if use normal 1 channel connection for BP test setup.
(naturally if want do 2 channel system, for example measure DUT what do frequency shift or some other reasons and situations. Example in some cases ref may need different level than DUT in. These bit more complex BodePlot works are difficult or impossible with single channel generator)
(there is also some other possible applications where two channel mode is nice so that second channel is tracking first channel using frequency or amplitude difference)
Same for LAN connection between SDS and SDG but there user need do least some simple settings for connection (depending how it is routed)
-
But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).
Plug&Play "blond" mode is: Connect USB between SDS and SDG(what ever Siglent made AWG, example SDG2042X including also older models) and after then BodePlot controls it - just select in BP conf menu that connection is USB. No need even touch SDG if use normal 1 channel connection for BP test setup.
(naturally if want do 2 channel system, for example measure DUT what do frequency shift or some other reasons and situations. Example in some cases ref may need different level than DUT in. These bit more complex BodePlot works are difficult or impossible with single channel generator)
(there is also some other possible applications where two channel mode is nice so that second channel is tracking first channel using frequency or amplitude difference)
Same for LAN connection between SDS and SDG but there user need do least some simple settings for connection (depending how it is routed)
Ok! Thank you!
I've seen some setups on Youtube with SDS 1104 and SGS2000X but until you don't test by yourself you never know how reliable is. That's why I'm asking.
-
Ok, let's talk electronics!
...
There are some differences, like SDS1000X HD has real hardware 500uV/div, .
....
SDS1000X HD is new gen architecture. Eres is provided as both acquistion mode (hardware) or as a math postprocessing.
No internal AWG.
....
Indeed 500uV/div is what I missed in my short hw comparison replying to Martin72, and is funny because is one of the atracting point for me at SDS1000X HD.
ERES hardware should be interesting to see in action.
No internal AWG. From specs I have concluded that is "Optional" but internal because of thechnical params. The fact that is mentioned there without the specification taht is an external equipment annoy me. But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).
Frankly, at 500uV/div it is going to be hard to see difference. Your measurement setup will be major source of unwanted interference..
ERES is same implementation as on SDS2000 X HD. Up to 3 bits of noise reduction. SDS2000X HD with 200 MHz BW reduction should serve as decent simulation (1000 could have a bit less noise but same ballpark).
I don't see it said explicitly but USB AWG sounds exactly like USB SAG1021I (isolated version). Maybe they will make a black painted version ? ;D
-
...
I don't see it said explicitly but USB AWG sounds exactly like USB SAG1021I (isolated version). Maybe they will make a black painted version ? ;D
Initially I was thinking that is a software option (atached) to activate the internal AWG as it it mentioned along with the USB AWG, but looking at the back of the scope I see no Gen Output.
-
...
I don't see it said explicitly but USB AWG sounds exactly like USB SAG1021I (isolated version). Maybe they will make a black painted version ? ;D
Initially I was thinking that is a software option (atached) to activate the internal AWG as it it mentioned along with the USB AWG, but looking at the back of the scope I see no Gen Output.
Yes that is how they do it: you buy AWG and license to control it from scope is separate. The explanation for this is that if you buy AWG only, and do not have license for AWG on scope, BODE plot will work anyways. That is same as those scopes that have built in AWG. Even if you don't have AWG license BODE works...
Yeah I know a bit complicated, but that is how it is..
As for functionality both SAG1021 and internal AWG in SDS2000X HD are same. Literally.
USB SAG1021I (isolated version) is actually potentially interesting because of isolation...
-
Ok.Not the easy solution, but at least is better than nothing (like HDO1K).
Let see if the price will make it an atractive aquisition.
-
The "old, white" SDS1000X HD has also disappeared from the chinese website:
https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds1000x-hd/ (https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds1000x-hd/)
-
...........
No internal AWG. From specs I have concluded that is "Optional" but internal because of thechnical params. The fact that is mentioned there without the specification taht is an external equipment annoy me. But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).
The clue to SDS1kX HD AWG is the statement USB as it does use SAG1021I which is fully DSO controlled for Bode plot or normal AWG use.
Any standalone Siglent AWG is also supported for Bode plot use where the scopes Bode plot UI takes control of the AWG via USB (plug & play) or via LAN.
USB SAG1021I (isolated version) is actually potentially interesting because of isolation...
Only version now available.
-
...........
No internal AWG. From specs I have concluded that is "Optional" but internal because of thechnical params. The fact that is mentioned there without the specification taht is an external equipment annoy me. But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).
The clue to SDS1kX HD AWG is the statement USB as it does use SAG1021I which is fully DSO controlled for Bode plot or normal AWG use.
Any standalone Siglent SWG is also supported for Bode plot use where the scopes Bode plot UI takes control of the AWG via USB (plug & play) or via LAN.
USB SAG1021I (isolated version) is actually potentially interesting because of isolation...
Only version now available.
Thanks! Good news is that work well with Siglents AWG.
-
...........
No internal AWG. From specs I have concluded that is "Optional" but internal because of thechnical params. The fact that is mentioned there without the specification taht is an external equipment annoy me. But I have also Siglent AWG SDG2042X which I have seen that can work with Siglent scope for Bode ploting, but I don know if it is plug&play as the external AWG (SAG1021).
The clue to SDS1kX HD AWG is the statement USB as it does use SAG1021I which is fully DSO controlled for Bode plot or normal AWG use.
Any standalone Siglent SWG is also supported for Bode plot use where the scopes Bode plot UI takes control of the AWG via USB (plug & play) or via LAN.
USB SAG1021I (isolated version) is actually potentially interesting because of isolation...
Only version now available.
Thanks! Good news is that work well with Siglents AWG.
All/any Siglent Bode plot DSO's can work with all/any current Siglent AWG model..
-
Ok.Not the easy solution, but at least is better than nothing (like HDO1K).
Let see if the price will make it an atractive aquisition.
That also gives you option to not pay for AWG in scope in advance if you don't need it.
And if you do need AWG , I would suggest to, instead of buying USB SAG1021I and a scope license, they together cost almost cost the same as buying SDG1032X that is 2 ch fully featured AWG, that also works PnP with the scope for Bode plots (same as SDG2000x/6000x).
I think that is much better deal for few more €.
Of course, some will say that you don't necessarily "need to pay" for AWG license so SAG1021I is much cheaper...
But in the same venue SDG1032X is not SDG1032X but something else....
Basically, if you get SDS1000X HD and you don't have AWG, I would recommend to (if you can afford it, of course ) to go for SDG1032X . You will get BODE plot to as much as AWG support ( ^-^) and fully featured 2ch AWG that will let you do so much more stuff. For instance, much larger output amplitude, modulations, sweeps, etc etc...
-
Here's an interesting example of the Bode function in the SDS2000X+ utilizing the external SDG2042X AWG.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/injection-locked-peltz-oscillator-with-bode-analysis/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/injection-locked-peltz-oscillator-with-bode-analysis/)
Best,
-
Basically, if you get SDS1000X HD and you don't have AWG, I would recommend to (if you can afford it, of course ) to go for SDG1032X .
I already have SDG2042X. I think it's good enough.
-
Basically, if you get SDS1000X HD and you don't have AWG, I would recommend to (if you can afford it, of course ) to go for SDG1032X .
I already have SDG2042X. I think it's good enough.
Even better.. In that case you get only scope and you have it all. SDG1000X/2000X/6000X you can connect with Ethernet or USB.
-
I already have SDG2042X. I think it's good enough.
Haven't you "improved" it to the SDG2122X yet?
-
I already have SDG2042X. I think it's good enough.
Haven't you "improved" it to the SDG2122X yet?
Of course, this is the reason for what I have aquired this model ;D
About three years ago ... if I remember well.
-
Basically, if you get SDS1000X HD and you don't have AWG, I would recommend to (if you can afford it, of course ) to go for SDG1032X .
I already have SDG2042X. I think it's good enough.
Even better.. In that case you get only scope and you have it all. SDG1000X/2000X/6000X you can connect with Ethernet or USB.
I don't find anywhere the frequency limit to which Bode plot function is working. Using an external AWG means that we can set the stop frequency to 120 MHz as SDG 2000X can generate? Anybody test that frequency limit? I have other 2 scopes with Bode plot function but they are limited by their internal AWG's to 25 MHZ.
-
I don't find anywhere the frequency limit to which Bode plot function is working. Using an external AWG means that we can set the stop frequency to 120 MHz as SDG 2000X can generate? Anybody test that frequency limit? I have other 2 scopes with Bode plot function but they are limited by their internal AWG's to 25 MHZ.
120 MHz is the Bode plot frequency limit for all models when the AWG used can supply such.
-
I don't find anywhere the frequency limit to which Bode plot function is working. Using an external AWG means that we can set the stop frequency to 120 MHz as SDG 2000X can generate? Anybody test that frequency limit? I have other 2 scopes with Bode plot function but they are limited by their internal AWG's to 25 MHZ.
120 MHz is the Bode plot frequency limit for all models when the AWG used can supply such.
Ok!
In that case the apparent disadvantage of not having an internal AWG, convert into big advantage when you have a compatible external AWG.
I've seen the R&S MXO4 cand generate and use on Bode plot until 100 MHz.
Interesting thing is that the posibility to work with an external generator (limited let say to each other brand model) can be implement by any scope maker as it is just a software application. For their series 1K/4K Rigol can introduce this and boost their AWG sales a little. In fact on any scope, Bode app can be adapted to use/switch an external(known) AWG.
-
I don't find anywhere the frequency limit to which Bode plot function is working. Using an external AWG means that we can set the stop frequency to 120 MHz as SDG 2000X can generate? Anybody test that frequency limit? I have other 2 scopes with Bode plot function but they are limited by their internal AWG's to 25 MHZ.
120 MHz is the Bode plot frequency limit for all models when the AWG used can supply such.
Ok!
In that case the apparent disadvantage of not having an internal AWG, convert into big advantage when you have a compatible external AWG.
I've seen the R&S MXO4 cand generate and use on Bode plot until 100 MHz.
Interesting thing is that the posibility to work with an external generator (limited let say to each other brand model) can be implement by any scope maker as it is just a software application. For their series 1K/4K Rigol can introduce this and boost their AWG sales a little. In fact on any scope, Bode app can be adapted to use/switch an external(known) AWG.
Some study for you here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/)
-
Some study for you here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/)
Thank you! I know this thread. I have also the Feeltch. Few years ago I tried a python script wrote by THM (if I remember well) for Rigol 5k when it didn't have Bode plot function.
But for Siglent having the app open for extenal AWG's is a good field to play.
-
I don't find anywhere the frequency limit to which Bode plot function is working. Using an external AWG means that we can set the stop frequency to 120 MHz as SDG 2000X can generate? Anybody test that frequency limit? I have other 2 scopes with Bode plot function but they are limited by their internal AWG's to 25 MHZ.
As is common for the "Siglent Armada", there are not just claims but plenty proof and lots of demonstrations for the various capabilities. The dynamic range over the full frequency range up to 120 MHz for a reference level of +18 dBm has been demonstrated here (reply #9):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1x04x-e-bodeplot-ii-(sfra)-features-and-testing-(coming)/msg2479809/#msg2479809 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1x04x-e-bodeplot-ii-(sfra)-features-and-testing-(coming)/msg2479809/#msg2479809)
The whole thread contains tons of information, yet it is from 2019 and for the little SDS1104X-E, whereas Bode Plot developement has not stopped back then. It is even nicer on the higher class touchscreen machines like SDS1000X HD and up.
To summarize the unique points of the Siglent Bode Plot:
- Three channels
- Frequency range up to 120 MHz
- More than 100 dB dynamic range at lower frequencies
EDIT: reference level corrected to +18 dBm; forgot to take the splitter into account...
-
Thank you. A well documented thread!
-
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5093430/#msg5093430 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5093430/#msg5093430)
Additional to this, the SDS1000X HD will have digital filters...
It's going to be a damn good scope.
https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_user%20manual_CN01B.pdf (https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_user%20manual_CN01B.pdf)
-
The prices for the 3000X HD in China.
If they remain the same here, I find them very humane.
And attractive. 8)
-
The prices for the 3000X HD in China.
If they remain the same here, I find them very humane.
And attractive. 8)
I wish I had your toy budget. I'll give you $5.00 for your 2000X HD when you get your 3000X HD. 😉
-
At 3600€, there can hardly be any talk of a "toy budget".
I don't have that much to spare, otherwise I would have kept every device I owned before-.
-
Fine fine, $6.00. 😉
-
I was hoping for that too, but if we go from the 2000x HD pricing, the EU pricing formula works out to about (chinese price converted to €) * 1.5 + tax.
-
I was hoping for that too, but if we go from the 2000x HD pricing, the EU pricing formula works out to about (chinese price converted to €) * 1.5 + tax.
I wouldn't take that as rule. For ex, SDS 2104 x Plus is 1476E on Chines site and 1426 at Batronix, while SDS1202X-E is 559E on Chinese but 383E at Batronix.
Siglent said that we still have to wait but not too long ...
-
Q1/24...That's really not much longer.
Meanwhile, I have somewhat buried my hopes for the release of a 3000X HD, for various reasons.
-
...
Meanwhile, I have somewhat buried my hopes for the release of a 3000X HD, for various reasons.
Why?
-
This has 4GSa/s max instead of 5, but otherwise it makes the 5000X series superfluous.
And what leads me to believe that it won't come to the western market are the two wavesurfer models from Lecroy, which are built by Siglent.
The WS3000 would have lost out in comparison and the WS4000HD* has the screen size (12") and slightly more max sample rate (5GSa) than the 3000X HD, but costs much more.
That would be direct competition and I don't think that would be "allowed".
On the other hand, it's time for a 5000X successor, which will be on the market for 6 years next year.
Then there will be a direct competitor to the HDO series with the SDS7000A and that seems to be "allowed" after all....Ah crap, now you've confused me again with your question as to why. ;D
*)Datasheet WS4000HD:
https://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/wavesurfer-4000hd-datasheet.pdf
Direct comparisons with the competition are still rather unusual here in Germany:
https://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/wavesurfer4000hd-v-tek.pdf
https://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/wavesurfer4000hd-v-rto.pdf
https://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/wavesurfer4000hd-v-keysight-s-series.pdf
-
You never know.
They can always find a stategy to put it on a difficult market and on the other hand I don't think they just come out with a new 1 GHz scope and miss the western market.
Time will tell.
-
You never know.
They can always find a stategy to put it on a difficult market and on the other hand I don't think they just come out with a new 1 GHz scope and miss the western market.
Time will tell.
There is also one (weird) question (- or is it weird). How important is the "western market" :/
The imagination of what China is, is in many cases constantly out of date in many westerners mind. It has changed and is changing faster than most people can update their thinking…
The demand for electronics testing equipment in China is (was) growing perhaps like a "to the moon" trend... how about western markets.
-
You never know.
They can always find a stategy to put it on a difficult market and on the other hand I don't think they just come out with a new 1 GHz scope and miss the western market.
Time will tell.
There is also one (weird) question (- or is it weird). How important is the "western market" :/
The imagination of what China is, is in many cases constantly out of date in many westerners mind. It has changed and is changing faster than most people can update their thinking…
The demand for electronics testing equipment in China is (was) growing perhaps like a "to the moon" trend... how about western markets.
I know what you say but "China to China" concept maybe is not so future proof as it want to be. Even China is not sure about.
Maybe the corect term instead the "western market" which is indeed somewhat perished, would be "global market". And this is for sure a target for China and subsequently for Siglent. But time will tell.
Coming back to Martin concern, the internal Chinese market is not ermetic. I can order from grey market a scope in discussion. Asking Siglent about that, they don't forbid but they said that from service and support perpective is not advisable ...
-
Maybe the corect term instead the "western market" which is indeed somewhat perished, would be "global market".
This is one very important consideration.
-
Asking Siglent about that, they don't forbid but they said that from service and support perpective is not advisable ...
FYI, Siglent dealers in China are forbidden to sell China only models to the west.
Eg SDS2074X Plus.
If discovered they will face penalties from Siglent as the source of any unit can be traced by SN#.
-
...
FYI, Siglent dealers in China are forbidden to sell China only models to the west.
Eg SDS2074X Plus.
If discovered they will face penalties from Siglent.
I am sure about.
For you as an oficial reseler this statement is important, but for me as a hobbyst doesn't care at all how I will get it. There are private channels.
-
...
FYI, Siglent dealers in China are forbidden to sell China only models to the west.
Eg SDS2074X Plus.
If discovered they will face penalties from Siglent.
I am sure about.
For you as an oficial reseler this statement is important, but for me as a hobbyst doesn't care at all how I will get it. There are private channels.
Sure.
But consider China suppliers may not want to put their relationship with Siglent at risk for just one sale.
I have seen the outcome....... :o
Still, it is very comforting to know Siglent give their official representatives support and protection from the grey market.
-
(https://www.siglent.com/u_file/product/23_09_18/3.png)
(https://www.siglent.com/u_file/product/23_09_18/4.png)
(https://www.siglent.com/u_file/product/23_09_18/2.png)
There were no pictures here yet. ;)
This logic channel colors....I want them too.
-
What do we see here....
(From open source acknowledge document)
-
What do we see here....
(From open source acknowledge document)
You have a new research task ! :popcorn:
-
At least there is already a "placeholder" on the Chinese website.
Possibly an answer to Rigol's DHO800/900 after all... We don't know, maybe nothing will come at all. ;)
-
There were no pictures here yet. ;)
This logic channel colors....I want them too.
You will... :-+
-
This logic channel colors....I want them too.
Be patient... it is in some pipeline...but perhaps there is still some more urgent things...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/?action=dlattach;attach=1938474;image)
-
At least there is already a "placeholder" on the Chinese website.
Possibly an answer to Rigol's DHO800/900 after all... We don't know, maybe nothing will come at all. ;)
Today I discover otherwise.
We will see SDS800X HD quite soon.
-
Today I discover otherwise.
We will see SDS800X HD quite soon.
..."soon".
So, some point between now and the end of time?
-
Ah... the SOONTM of release dates. Better than unfinished product anyway.
-
Ah... the SOONTM of release dates. Better than unfinished product anyway.
I need to save money for my 3rd scope anyways :-DD
-
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/)
-
At least there is already a "placeholder" on the Chinese website.
Possibly an answer to Rigol's DHO800/900 after all... We don't know, maybe nothing will come at all. ;)
Today I discover otherwise.
We will see SDS800X HD quite soon.
Is it a portable scope like the other 800 series?
It would be really nice if not everything would be called exactly the same, I mean there is 4 different 1000 series scope from Siglent now.
-
Siglent's naming convention annoys me too. Why do they now need two suffixes for all the scope models (X, X plus, X HD)? Why not encode some family information in the prefix, instead of the "it's a scope" standard SDS prefix? The current naming convention leads to all kinds of false-positive hits on Google which actually refer to different product lines.
Its not only the naming (why is the SDS6000 Pro no "HD" / SDS7000A 12bits also no "HD") its also this grey (SDS2000X-HD/SDS6000A) -black (all other HD & SDS7000A) design.
Kind of confusing...
-
Kind of confusing...
They're probably waiting to see which design change gets the least amount of complaints. 😉
-
Its not only the naming (why is the SDS6000 Pro no "HD" / SDS7000A 12bits also no "HD") its also this grey (SDS2000X-HD/SDS6000A) -black (all other HD & SDS7000A) design.
Kind of confusing...
The confusion is due to the fact that we can see all markets, Chinese and global, although only one is actually interesting.
The "A" in 6000A and 7000A indicates the "Pro line", while the "X" represents the consumer line.
1000X, 2000X, 3000X, 5000X, 6000A, 7000A.
Until now, you could read the sample rate from this.
1GSa/s =1000, 2 GSa/s = 2000, 4 GSa/s =3000, 5 GSa/s = 5000, 10GSa/s = 6000, 20GSa/s = 7000.
There are several 6000A variants on the Chinese market, which is why they are called differently there.
6000pro H10, H12, for example, depending on the (calibrated) resolution.
"We" only have the 8 bit version and that is called 6000A.
There don't seem to be any variants of the latest absolute top model, which is why it is called 7000A everywhere.
For the 1000X and 2000X models there are 12 bit variants, hence 1000X HD and 2000X HD.
So that you don't confuse the latest smallest 12 bit variant with the 1000X HD, it is called 800X HD.
At least that's how I figure it.
Nevertheless, there are two illogical cases.
Because the 800X HD and the (newly revised) 1000X HD have max. 2GSa/s.
That's probably why the black housing to differentiate them.
Why then the 7000A also has a black housing...Oh man, I feel confused right now too ;D
-
Martin, the odd one out is your SDS2000X HD when all other 12 bit models will be black. :P
-
Thank you Rob for crushing down my build of thoughts... :P ;D
-
Thank you Rob for crushing down my build of thoughts... :P ;D
You're welcome. ;D
Rather than be different.....a SDS3000X HD will fix that. 8)
-
Black housings are just time mark. They started appearing after SDSD2000X HD was released.
-
"We" only have the 8 bit version and that is called 6000A.
There don't seem to be any variants of the latest absolute top model, which is why it is called 7000A everywhere.
In fact its full designation is "SDS7000A H12", according to the data sheet. But since there will be no variant with less than 12 bits, the "H12" term will probably be omitted.
Nevertheless, there are two illogical cases.
Because the 800X HD and the (newly revised) 1000X HD have max. 2GSa/s.
That's probably why the black housing to differentiate them.
Why then the 7000A also has a black housing...Oh man, I feel confused right now too ;D
Yes - as you could see, the 1000X HD was planned with max. 1 GSa/s initially, but with only a single ADC for 4 channels, which is a novum for Siglent scopes (except the rather meaningless SDS1000X-U). At one point it must have dawned to Siglent product management, that the equivalent of 2 x 1 GSa/s can only be 1 x 2 GSa/s ;)
So all in all, the ranking should be correct: 4 x 500 MSa/s in the 1000 class, 4 x 1 GSa/s for the 2000 series.
Regarding the color, it's just a matter of fashion. Siglent dosn't follow each new trend immediately (and I personally like that!), but eventually quite obviously couldn't resist any longer. So it's just a matter of release date what color an instrument gets.
-
Why then the 7000A also has a black housing...Oh man, I feel confused right now too ;D
In that price class they should offer customized color schemes :)
-
If I have possibility to select color scheme if Siglent sell both colors and buyer can select...
Here is light grey and dark grey/graphite.
I do not think even one second if I can select... and then other... I do not like "horrible" pink channel trace color what user can not even change..
But yes my selection is of course left one. But we are personal individuals... why we can not select color. I can select even shoes and shirt color and my coffee cup, my car, my many other things... please give us even these two colors for select... Or sell color change kit...
But yes I guess, Santa Claus is deaf and blind. :-DD
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/?action=dlattach;attach=1940388;image)
-
I guess I'm one of the weirdos that prefer the darker scheme, but ideally only if it matches the rest of my gear so it doesn't just stick out like a sore thumb. Since the rest of my gear, other than one small bench SMPS, is the archaic boring white color, then I reluctantly would prefer the same for new gear. If I had a chance to replace it ALL, then I'd definitely prefer the dark color.
-
I don't know if it's just the product photography with bright studio lights and high color temperature, but none of my Sigent gear looks anything like in that photo. It is a very decent beige color and when you place a white sheet of paper next to it, it's a difference like day and night. This beige is easy on the eyes and probaly not by accident that it's the standard color for office furniture.
If the Instrument was actually pure white (like some Apple products in the past), I would prefer the darker gray over white too.
-
I personally don't dislike black, aesthetically speaking, as my computers, printers, monitors, keyboard, mouse, etc are all black and I'm fine with that.
I haven't found the DSOX1204 particularly problematic either, but the lighter colour of the rest of my equipment (GWInstek and older Keysight) is certainly easier on the eyes, and the buttons are also easier to read.
This would be the last thing impacting my purchase decision, but I would certainly buy beige rather than black.
Black text over white is just better for the eyes than white text over black, and that's a fact. "Cheap appearance" is a fundamentally subjective appreciation (unless the finish falls apart, and then black won't help either).
-
If I have possibility to select color scheme if Siglent sell both colors and buyer can select...
I want a red one, because everybody knows red scopes go faster!
-
Since all our newer Lecroy scopes are black, I've gotten used to it by now and wouldn't have a problem if the 3000X HD came in "dark".
Even if it would clash visually with the rest of my equipment. ;)
-
The advantage of black is that will remain black.
The white will go yellow sooner or latter.
So I don't mind if it's black. Will look as new for a much longer time.
-
I'm just glad that Apple is not designing scopes, otherwise it would be in a silver aluminium case with no buttons at all, but one proprietary input, incompatible to everything else. The first scope on the market with a HD camera and a heartbeat monitor. On the other side - the display would be just amazing...
-
The advantage of black is that will remain black.
The white will go yellow sooner or latter.
So I don't mind if it's black. Will look as new for a much longer time.
I have some experience with this. But the time is so short with the Siglent devices that I don't know how it will go in the long term at least.
I have a Siglent (SDG5000) here that is over 10 years old and when I compare it a lot with some new Siglent SDG and other products I can't detect any discoloration. I also look at these in a different light... no, I don't see any change. I don't have a high quality color analyzer, but my eyes are very sensitive to color, sometimes I feel it's too sensitive.
But yes, if the air is not clear, if there are some bad pollutants like for example cigarette smoke (or many other possible things), they can affect the colors very quickly and deeply... and no way to clean. I remember one project when I was trying to clean old Tektronix and HP front panels... some of them have been in a room where stupid peoples smoke...(never ever smoke in electronics lab!) no way to clean because it's absorbed into the plastic or paint layer. (It also may do bad things in some sensitive contacts etc) Also This smell also never goes away...no matter if it's a light or black color. Black(dark) color just hides dirt from the eyes, except dust what is extremely visible on black. (also other smoke ruins many other things (not only color) and not just cigarette smoke...also industrial smoke and house heating smoke and ancient smoke cars and other motor vehicles).
-
The advantage of black is that will remain black.
The white will go yellow sooner or latter.
So I don't mind if it's black. Will look as new for a much longer time.
I have some experience with this. But the time is so short with the Siglent devices that I don't know how it will go in the long term at least.
I have a Siglent (SDG5000) here that is over 10 years old and when I compare it a lot with some new Siglent SDG and other products I can't detect any discoloration. I also look at these in a different light... no, I don't see any change. I don't have a high quality color analyzer, but my eyes are very sensitive to color, sometimes I feel it's too sensitive.
But yes, if the air is not clear, if there are some bad pollutants like for example cigarette smoke (or many other possible things), they can affect the colors very quickly and deeply... and no way to clean. I remember one project when I was trying to clean old Tektronix and HP front panels... some of them have been in a room where stupid peoples smoke...(never ever smoke in electronics lab!) no way to clean because it's absorbed into the plastic or paint layer. (It also may do bad things in some sensitive contacts etc) Also This smell also never goes away...no matter if it's a light or black color. Black(dark) color just hides dirt from the eyes, except dust what is extremely visible on black. (also other smoke ruins many other things (not only color) and not just cigarette smoke...also industrial smoke and house heating smoke and ancient smoke cars and other motor vehicles).
You are right about smoking. I hate the smoking smell in a room or the electronic devices smelling like that.
I was thinking at plastic material reaction at UV component from sun's light. White plastic goes yellow because it was exposed to sun light.
In a closed lab, without the sun light, it is possible to avoid this.
I keep my devices clean, but if will stay longer near the window, the exposed side become yellow. Maybe the present plastic is not so reactive at UV.
-
The advantage of black is that will remain black.
The white will go yellow sooner or latter.
So I don't mind if it's black. Will look as new for a much longer time.
I have some experience with this. But the time is so short with the Siglent devices that I don't know how it will go in the long term at least.
I have a Siglent (SDG5000) here that is over 10 years old and when I compare it a lot with some new Siglent SDG and other products I can't detect any discoloration. I also look at these in a different light... no, I don't see any change. I don't have a high quality color analyzer, but my eyes are very sensitive to color, sometimes I feel it's too sensitive.
But yes, if the air is not clear, if there are some bad pollutants like for example cigarette smoke (or many other possible things), they can affect the colors very quickly and deeply... and no way to clean. I remember one project when I was trying to clean old Tektronix and HP front panels... some of them have been in a room where stupid peoples smoke...(never ever smoke in electronics lab!) no way to clean because it's absorbed into the plastic or paint layer. (It also may do bad things in some sensitive contacts etc) Also This smell also never goes away...no matter if it's a light or black color. Black(dark) color just hides dirt from the eyes, except dust what is extremely visible on black. (also other smoke ruins many other things (not only color) and not just cigarette smoke...also industrial smoke and house heating smoke and ancient smoke cars and other motor vehicles).
You are right about smoking. I hate the smoking smell in a room or the electronic devices smelling like that.
I was thinking at plastic material reaction at UV component from sun's light. White plastic goes yellow because it was exposed to sun light.
In a closed lab, without the sun light, it is possible to avoid this.
I keep my devices clean, but if will stay longer near the window, the exposed side become yellow. Maybe the present plastic is not so reactive at UV.
Modern glass on windows blocks UV quite well. Especially if you have thermal 2/3 panes glass sandwich.
You would need to keep equipment right next to open window on south side of house to have significant impact. Which you don't want to do where I live, because in summer it is too hot....
I don't remember seeing much of the lab equipment damaged by sun, but have seen few handheld meters damaged by sun...
Plastic gets discolorated, dry and gets brittle, rubber boots gets dry and crumble...
But cigarettes, damage from those I've seen plenty. And darn cigarette tar gets inside and contaminates everything.. Not to mention how air filters smell like septic tank... Horrible thing. I for one like that smoking is not so popular anymore...
-
Happy new year to everyone..
So, Q1/24* has now started.
What will come, the 1000 or the 800?
I've already made up my mind and would be very surprised if it turned out differently. ;)
*(As a reminder, Siglent EU, i.e. not a user, had "said" that a 12-bit entry-level scope would be coming in Q1/24)
-
Happy New Year!
Q1...so some time in late March? 😉
-
Happy New Year!
-
Happy new year everyone.
I haven't seen the 3000X-HD chinese pricing posted yet. We were told by a forum member that siglent.com prices do include chinese VAT. ¿Could we have the chinese VAT rate posted? To compare net prices if anyone is interested.
assuming 15% made up VAT:
SDS3034X HD: ¥27,880 ~ €3,559.36 ~ $3,905.31 €3,095.09 Net
SDS2104X HD: ¥13,880 ~ €1,771.82 ~ $1,944.25 €1540,71 Net
SDS1104X HD: ¥6,680 ~ €852.62 ~ $935.71 €740.87 Net.
The exchange rates are fluctuating quite a bit, they have actually changed while I was writing the post. The VAT is just made up, will correct it if someone points me to the correct number.
-
Hi,
I haven't seen the 3000X-HD chinese pricing posted yet.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5141898/#msg5141898 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5141898/#msg5141898)
8)
-
Hi,
I haven't seen the 3000X-HD chinese pricing posted yet.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5141898/#msg5141898 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5141898/#msg5141898)
8)
Oh well. The rate is now more beneficial to EU buyers. Does that count as new, relevant info? ::)
-
If I see it correctly, the prices for the 3000X HD have remained the same, the prices for the 2000X HD have almost halved, a bit of a shock for people like me who paid 3500€, but there's no sign of that here.
Not yet.
-
Yes, I meant the exchange rates. And an hypothetical european "outlaw" buying in China.
I actually had the oportunity to have a friend buy me one, as she was in China for some time, but came back already.
If I see it correctly, the prices for the 3000X HD have remained the same, the prices for the 2000X HD have almost halved, a bit of a shock for people like me who paid 3500€, but there's no sign of that here.
Not yet.
I'm afraid of falling into the trap of "for just a few bucks more I can have a 2000X-HD" if they were to reduce that ~40-45% in Europe too.
I'm kind of expectant now. These differences in price are starting to make attractive buying from China.
I won't, most likely, as I had a GWInstek scope from Tequipment fail on me the first day of using it, a few years ago. Thankfully they were really good with the return, but the shipping to Europe and back to USA ate my tiny savings back then (didn't have a job yet), and I spent the next 10 months without a scope.
-
I'm afraid of falling into the trap of "for just a few bucks more I can have a 2000X-HD" if they were to reduce that ~40-45% in Europe too.
If the 3000X HD comes onto the domestic market and then at the same price, which is currently the same as the 2000X HD series here, there can only be two possibilities.
Either the 2000 series becomes drastically cheaper or it disappears from the market.
I think the former, as you can see from the price collapse in China.
-
SDS3034X HD: ¥27,880 ~ €3,559.36 ~ $3,905.31 €3,095.09 Net
SDS2104X HD: ¥13,880 ~ €1,771.82 ~ $1,944.25 €1540,71 Net
SDS1104X HD: ¥6,680 ~ €852.62 ~ $935.71 €740.87 Net.
SDS2000X HD series as
ERES Enhanced bit: 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3 bits
SDS3000X HD series
as currently opened and it looks X series and A series any different.
SDS6000A series as
9-bit: 0.25*Sample rate, up to the analog bandwidth
10-bit: 0.115*Sample rate, up to 1.15 GHz, limited by the analog bandwidth
11-bit: 0.055*Sample rate, up to 550 MHz, limited by the analog bandwidth
12-bit: 0.028*Sample rate, up to 280 MHz
13-bit: 0.014*Sample rate, up to 140 MHz
14-bit: 0.007*Sample rate, up to 70 MHz
15-bit: 0.0035*Sample rate, up to 35 MHz
16-bit: 0.0017*Sample rate, up to 17 MHz
SDS7000A series
Enhanced bits:
0.5: 0.25*Sample rate, up to the analog bandwidth
1: 0.115*Sample rate, up to 2.3 GHz, limited by the analog bandwidth
1.5: 0.055*Sample rate, up to 1.1 GHz, limited by the analog bandwidth
2: 0.028*Sample rate, up to 560 MHz
2.5: 0.014*Sample rate, up to 280 MHz
3: 0.007*Sample rate, up to 140 MHz
3.5: 0.0035*Sample rate, up to 70 MHz
4: 0.0017*Sample rate, up to 34 MHz
So in some way not easy to compare, as noise floor and ERES... even from equal company.
hp
-
Happy New Year!
Q1...so some time in late March? 😉
Before then.
3 new 12bit model ranges.
Release date is already set, let’s see if it can be kept. :popcorn:
-
Release date is already set, let’s see if it can be kept. :popcorn:
Damn, and here I forgot my decoder ring, so I won't know until they're out. 😉
-
hi hpw,
cool your post above (I don't quote it)
Exactly the figures that make me "!?"
Oscilloscope market is a spec jungle :)
-
Not really...
SDS6000 pro H12 +4 bits Eres
SDS6000A (8bits) + 8bits Eres...
How can that work, but only if... ;)
@Tautech:
If so, then a new thread should be created, otherwise nobody will be able to see through it.
-
Not really...
SDS6000 pro H12 +4 bits Eres
SDS6000A (8bits) + 8bits Eres...
How can that work, but only if... ;)
@Tautech:
If so, then a new thread should be created, otherwise nobody will be able to see through it.
Just a different SW configuration and which ever way you look at it the max is 16bit capability, is not your 2kX HD the same ?
-
No, native 12 bit plus 3 bit Eres...
-
No, native 12 bit plus 3 bit Eres...
Close then, 15bits.
-
Q1...so some time in late March? 😉
Before then.
3 new 12bit model ranges.
Release date is already set, let’s see if it can be kept. :popcorn:
Not before Chinese New Year, I'd guess, because they want all the bases manned when the new products go out. That would put it to late February or early March.
Unless the first batch is already on its way I guess. Didn't think of that.
-
They have support in regional offices in EU and NA.
-
They have support in regional offices in EU and NA.
Sure, but the products will be new to those guys too. I was thinking of second-level support back at base.
But who knows -- maybe Signlent is so confident in the new products, or has trained their EU and US staff so well, that they can pull the "Release!" trigger before CNY and go on holidays. :)
Like I said before..
These are not clean slate designs. They all use same software platform. All of these scopes are used same way. So support tech that has been supporting SDS2000X HD already knows everything on how scope is used, trigger types, math, measurements, etc.
That is beauty of this new Siglent platform, you can teach people on SDS800X HD and they will know how to use 90% of 6000A, except eye diagrams and such. Everything is the same, Bode, Power analysis etc..
And that is majority of support requests. People new to the platform learning how to use it.
Unlike Rigol that went with clean slate design and needs time to establish whole support structure (which because of rushing to market they didn't do upfront).Every manufacturer faces same challenges. But it depends on manufacturer what strategy they choose to "attack" the problem. When you execute strategy right, synergies arise...
-
I don't mean to argue whether Siglent are running their business well -- I am just curious about the release date. ;)
I'm not arguing either, just factually responded to your sentences..
Yeah, I'm curious too....
-
Not me. ;)
Joking aside, Q1 has already started, so the time has become foreseeable.
-
These are not clean slate designs. They all use same software platform. All of these scopes are used same way. So support tech that has been supporting SDS2000X HD already knows everything on how scope is used, trigger types, math, measurements, etc.
That is beauty of this new Siglent platform, you can teach people on SDS800X HD and they will know how to use 90% of 6000A, except eye diagrams and such. Everything is the same, Bode, Power analysis etc..
And that is majority of support requests. People new to the platform learning how to use it.
They got that from way back with the old HP and Tektronix, everything just worked as expected and even new instruments didn't require a deep dive into the instruction manuals. One of the reasons we didn't consider any other TE OEMs back then, we didn't have the time to learn and understand the way different TE OEMS equipment behaved, so mostly stuck with HP and Tek.
Many folks that have never worked in the R&D electronics field, don't understand the implied cost of learning new equipment. The learning curve cost of a new instrument can easily consume a large fraction of the instrument cost in a high valued R&D lab. Sure for smaller operations and hobby types, one can "hide" this learning curve cost, or often have employees learn on their own time (old bean counter trick sold as Lunch & Learn where we once worked). This becomes difficult at larger facilities/labs where the equipment must stay "in place" and often forces one to stay "after hours" to learn how to use such, and often this required 2 people in many labs, especially with dangerous capability, and made things more difficult.
So having a buildable "platform" is a good approach for both the end user and the OEM :-+
HP and Tek knew this way back, but somehow seemed to forget as time moved on :(
Best,
-
I run a web search for the SDS3000X HD on occasion. The latest such search turned up the attached English language datasheet.
This scope certainly has my interest piqued. Right now, I've got an SDS2000X+, and it's great for everything I need to do (except small signal noise floor, but I have a pico 4262 for that). The smartest thing is probably to be happy with the 2000X+, lol.
-
The smartest thing is probably to be happy with the 2000X+, lol.
I was happy with my MSO5000, then I was happy with my SDS2504Xplus, then I was very happy with my SDS2504X HD....
-
I was happy with my MSO5000, then I was happy with my SDS2504Xplus, then I was very happy with my SDS2504X HD....
Hopefully you'll be happy with your SDS3000X HD for a couple years before you're happy with the next one... 😉
-
A few more weeks and then we'll see how happy you can be with it. 8)
-
A few more weeks and then we'll see how happy you can be with it. 8)
Chatting with a beta tester recently and it is his new favourite box from Siglent.....and he has a good few. :o
No it wasn't Performa01 either. :-X
-
I run a web search for the SDS3000X HD on occasion. The latest such search turned up the attached English language datasheet.
Confirmed, that's the latest datasheet that has been shared with us.
-
I run a web search for the SDS3000X HD on occasion. The latest such search turned up the attached English language datasheet.
Confirmed, that's the latest datasheet that has been shared with us.
A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?
Hp
-
A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?
Can't see that specifically in a SDS1000X HD however using a Math on Math formula might provide it but above my paygrade. :-[
One of our wizard beta testers might have a better answer.
-
A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?
Can't see that specifically in a SDS1000X HD however using a Math on Math formula might provide it but above my paygrade. :-[
One of our wizard beta testers might have a better answer.
[/quote]
Well, the rtHz could be done by any post FFT re-scale... see as pictures but requires some values from the SDS :palm:
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
-
A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?
Can't see that specifically in a SDS1000X HD however using a Math on Math formula might provide it but above my paygrade. :-[
One of our wizard beta testers might have a better answer.
Well, the rtHz could be done by any post FFT re-scale... see as pictures but requires some values from the SDS :palm:
[/quote]
What's with the :palm: ?
I showed SDS1000X HD doesn't have this and it's the only HD model I have currently.
It's the first one I grabbed but not checked my SDS6204A yet.
Is this scaling found in analyzers ?
-
A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?
Can't see that specifically in a SDS1000X HD however using a Math on Math formula might provide it but above my paygrade. :-[
One of our wizard beta testers might have a better answer.
Well, the rtHz could be done by any post FFT re-scale... see as pictures but requires some values from the SDS :palm:
What's with the :palm: ?
I showed SDS1000X HD doesn't have this and it's the only HD model I have currently.
It's the first one I grabbed but not checked my SDS6204A yet.
Is this scaling found in analyzers ?
[/quote]
The :palm: is as it requires for any math the values as FFT bin RBW, frequency & FFT size!
To do it off load, many sampled streams are required as current and averaged streams.
Is this doable by SDS Siglent's? As to save as a single file?
This scalings is available almost on Audio Analyzers and Spectrum FFT Analyzers.
I did also googled, it showed already asked here on this forums as years ago.. Where the really limitation is the ENOB.
As your second picture shows, some dB/rtHz or Linear/rtHz build in functions to love. May ask on Siglent forum about..
-
A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?
Can't see that specifically in a SDS1000X HD however using a Math on Math formula might provide it but above my paygrade. :-[
One of our wizard beta testers might have a better answer.
Well, the rtHz could be done by any post FFT re-scale... see as pictures but requires some values from the SDS :palm:
Hi,
again one of you "rebus" questions.... It is always fun trying to figure out what the question actually is ...
What do you mean? What do you want? In simple sentences. Less drama and sarcasm and more actual question. Pretty please?
By your reaction, those that does not know better, might think this is something "normal" and "must have" analysis that any scope except this one can do...
Please educate us if you know of how many scopes that has power/voltage noise density plot capability. Brands and models.
And if they do have that capability, is it free, included by default? Or part of some advanced math/spectrum package? And how much it costs, scope and package?
Only palm face here is you abrasively expecting/demanding this from sub 1000 € as if that was not very niche and exotic thing to expect on a scope. Of any price, for that matter.
OTOH I see many other scopes not even doing plain FFT properly...
Siglent might even add this eventually to some of it's models.
We asked for it, as for many other things.
And frankly, many of things asked would take priority over this.
If they do add power/voltage noise density plot capability on inexpensive scopes, that would be industry leading practice, not something usual.
Would that be great? Sure.
But my advice would be to keep expectations real and tone less abrasive... You know, honey, vinegar .....
Best,
-
The :palm: is as it requires for any math the values as FFT bin RBW, frequency & FFT size!
To do it off load, many sampled streams are required as current and averaged streams.
Is this doable by SDS Siglent's? As to save as a single file?
This scalings is available almost on Audio Analyzers and Spectrum FFT Analyzers.
I did also googled, it showed already asked here on this forums as years ago.. Where the really limitation is the ENOB.
As your second picture shows, some dB/rtHz or Linear/rtHz build in functions to love. May ask on Siglent forum about..
Aha, some specific questions..
No, there is no capability to let scope do some kind of preprocessing you would like and then save that to single file. I don't know of any "normal" scope that does that.
Scopes are not audio analysers or SA. So what is "normal" on them is not "normal" on scopes. That might change in the future, but for now, that is the state of the art. In industry, not Siglent.
ENOB will be limitation always.
As for the last one, I guessing here you are suggesting that Siglent would add that function to Math. Yeah we can (and did ask).
There was no Log axis in FFT. We asked, it was given. With time. It takes time to do stuff..
We will see what can be done. It is up to them.
-
As for the last one, I guessing here you are suggesting that Siglent would add that function to Math. Yeah we can (and did ask).
There was no Log axis in FFT. We asked, it was given. With time. It takes time to do stuff..
We will see what can be done. It is up to them.
What many don't realize, having never been a critical part of a business, nor owned or operated one, is a business must be profitable over time. When a business, small, medium or large becomes totally "customer driven" they quickly run out of cash/resources because they are constantly servicing all customer requests and desires with finite resources and spiral into bankruptcy.
Successful companies like Siglent have done a superb job IMO of managing customer requests and desires while still keeping good business growth, a delicate balance between engineering, production & bean counting. And continue to produce and introduce excellent valued products, while managing customer requests with reasonable fidelity, and maintain a successful healthy growth pattern :clap:
Let's hope they don't change a thing :-+
Best,
-
As I mentioned before, we've also been pretty spoiled by Siglent.
No firmware update without additional features, meanwhile people are asking for the updates, but hardly in the sense of bug fixes, but in the sense of what will we get next.
Oh I don't want them to stop... ;D
I myself still dream of filters that "work" "deep" in the khz range, but you really have to see it that Siglent is almost alone at the top in terms of feature replenishment.
Lecroy can do that too, but they always want to see money for it. 8)
-
As for the last one, I guessing here you are suggesting that Siglent would add that function to Math. Yeah we can (and did ask).
There was no Log axis in FFT. We asked, it was given. With time. It takes time to do stuff..
We will see what can be done. It is up to them.
What many don't realize, having never been a critical part of a business, nor owned or operated one, is a business must be profitable over time. When a business, small, medium or large becomes totally "customer driven" they quickly run out of cash/resources because they are constantly servicing all customer requests and desires with finite resources and spiral into bankruptcy.
Successful companies like Siglent have done a superb job IMO of managing customer requests and desires while still keeping good business growth, a delicate balance between engineering, production & bean counting. And continue to produce and introduce excellent valued products, while managing customer requests with reasonable fidelity, and maintain a successful healthy growth pattern :clap:
Let's hope they don't change a thing :-+
Best,
Thank you for sage and realistic comment.
I personally understand @hpw in a way. I would also like perfect instrument and have whole 300€ to pay for it. If it was possible, nobody would be happier than me.
But, alas, it is not possible. Other permutation of price-performance combinations are possible, but that one, unfortunately, is not...
-
As for the last one, I guessing here you are suggesting that Siglent would add that function to Math. Yeah we can (and did ask).
There was no Log axis in FFT. We asked, it was given. With time. It takes time to do stuff..
We will see what can be done. It is up to them.
What many don't realize, having never been a critical part of a business, nor owned or operated one, is a business must be profitable over time. When a business, small, medium or large becomes totally "customer driven" they quickly run out of cash/resources because they are constantly servicing all customer requests and desires with finite resources and spiral into bankruptcy.
Successful companies like Siglent have done a superb job IMO of managing customer requests and desires while still keeping good business growth, a delicate balance between engineering, production & bean counting. And continue to produce and introduce excellent valued products, while managing customer requests with reasonable fidelity, and maintain a successful healthy growth pattern :clap:
Let's hope they don't change a thing :-+
Best,
Thank you for sage and realistic comment.
I personally understand @hpw in a way. I would also like perfect instrument and have whole 300€ to pay for it. If it was possible, nobody would be happier than me.
But, alas, it is not possible. Other permutation of price-performance combinations are possible, but that one, unfortunately, is not...
As over decades, a simple Analog Scope gets now more and more as a completer Analyzer as PC based. While now FFT with THD and even x-axis with Log scales & averages.
In other words, it is acquisition with a n ADC and CPU processing.
May additional specific probes & LNA amplifiers are required to deal with the input limitations as measuring PSU of ADC/DAC as Vref & ADC/DAC. It looks for or me now as 3 different LNA's are required: Ultra low 1/f frequency into mHz, middle range as 10Hz.... 5MHz, and upper RF range to 100MHz..1GHz.
So I simple need the sampled RAW data of 1. AVG to n.-AVG on the PC, to do some post processing as the DSO may do not have the required floating point mantissa and math.
So how to get x-sampled RAW data/sequences as one file or if only possible, as multiple files (grrr..).
The new SDS Siglent PC SW may help in this direction , currently I did not tested it yet.
Hp
-
I'd better post it here so as not to produce too much offtopic in the other thread:
3034X HD is little more than 5034X but 12bit and the nice 12" display.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-scope-demoboard-from-batronix/msg5337200/#msg5337200 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-scope-demoboard-from-batronix/msg5337200/#msg5337200)
That would be new to me Rob, but I would be very happy if the SDS3034X HD had a 12" display. ;)
It is no longer a secret that not only the 800X HD, but also the 1000X HD and the 3000X HD are coming.
When it was certain that the 3000 model would also be launched on the global market, I spontaneously decided to buy one.
I've already pre-ordered it, so when it arrives I'll open an explicit thread about it.
Why another scope?
I loved my SDS2000X HD, I would never be able to use it to its full potential, at least as far as my hobby projects are concerned.
But... ;)
Once again, it was the small but subtle differences that persuaded me to spend money again.
Twice the maximum sample rate, twice the maximum bandwidth, twice the FFT memory points and the "Probus" interface were the points that persuaded me to buy it.
The color of the casing, the display and the lack of a video output are rather arguments against it.
But not so serious as not to do it.
More on this (why display) in my new thread then.
Since I ordered the SDS3034X HD, I also know its price.
And that's where it gets interesting.
"Of course" it costs more than the SDS2104X HD, but considering the price I paid for it in 2022, it's surprisingly less than you might think.
So I wonder what will happen to the old models when the new three model series are presented at the end of this month.
Will the 2000X HD series become cheaper again (it has already become about 500€ cheaper) to keep the distance?
What about the old SDS5000X?
What will happen to the SDS1000X-E when the 800 arrives?
Will people still buy an SDS2000xplus when the SDS1000X HD is available? Or the SDS2000x HD becomes much cheaper?
Questions, questions...
-
Will people still buy an SDS2000xplus when the SDS1000X HD is available?
This is exactly my dilemma....I am in the market for buying an SDS2000xplus but started to hestitate when reading the anouncement of the 1000HD..... I am waiting the first reviews and teardowns before making my move...... And very curious about your experiences with the 3000 series....you are counting the days now?!
-
Absolutely.
I hope that the delivery date is shortened, at the beginning of January mid-March was mentioned.
Maybe I'll be lucky and the stocks will be filled earlier.
As far as SDS2000Xplus vs SDS1000X HD is concerned, I recommend taking a close look at the differences and then deciding what I need and what I don't need.
The 1000X HD has a 10" display and 12 bit resolution, but it is still a 1000X and not a 2000X.
-
That would be new to me Rob, but I would be very happy if the SDS3034X HD had a 12" display. ;)
It is 10.1", just like the SDS2000X series.
Once again, it was the small but subtle differences that persuaded me to spend money again.
Twice the maximum sample rate, twice the maximum bandwidth, twice the FFT memory points and the "Probus" interface were the points that persuaded me to buy it.
This is not a Probus interface, even though there should be adapters available, which support a (very) limited selection of Probus probes.
Siglent have their own active probe interface, which is called SAPbus.
Will people still buy an SDS2000xplus when the SDS1000X HD is available? Or the SDS2000x HD becomes much cheaper?
Yes, they will, because not everyone will take the 12 bits over twice the sample rate and up to 500 MHz bandwidth (actually 570).
And should the SDS2000X HD actually get much cheaper, then the price for the SDS2000X Plus would also drop accordingly.
-
This is not a Probus interface
I know, I know - but believe me, the term keeps slipping my mind. ;)
-
Will people still buy an SDS2000xplus when the SDS1000X HD is available?
This is exactly my dilemma....I am in the market for buying an SDS2000xplus but started to hestitate when reading the anouncement of the 1000HD..... I am waiting the first reviews and teardowns before making my move...... And very curious about your experiences with the 3000 series....you are counting the days now?!
What are your questions about 3000XHD series?
-
That would be new to me Rob, but I would be very happy if the SDS3034X HD had a 12" display. ;)
If the display is the same as SDS1000X-HD(most likely) you will have a 10,1" with low contrast (trying to compensate by overdriving the backlight brightness) far away from Rigol DHO1K.
Also a 8bit - ish look of the waveform compared with Rigol DHO1K 12 bit. I'm very curious if SDS3000X-HD will be better in that point.
-
If the display quality is as good as my previous SDS2504X HD, there will be no reason to complain.
That was enough for me, it shouldn't win any beauty awards, it should work.
What use is a scope with a beautiful display if the rest is more or less rubbish.
-
If the display quality is as good as my previous SDS2504X HD, there will be no reason to complain.
That was enough for me, it shouldn't win any beauty awards, it should work.
What use is a scope with a beautiful display if the rest is more or less rubbish.
My comparison was not between rubish scopes but between two direct competitors, both pretty capable in their class.
-
If the display quality is as good as my previous SDS2504X HD, there will be no reason to complain.
That was enough for me, it shouldn't win any beauty awards, it should work.
What use is a scope with a beautiful display if the rest is more or less rubbish.
Screen is same resolution but slightly better than 2000HXD.
It is very legible, clear and crisp.
I must not that I dislike use of AA fonts in every occasions. Design for sake of design is not good design in my opinion.
For instance, if you look at the two images by Skander36:
On Rigol, timebase data uses 4 times more screen surface, split over 3 boxes. Still, font sizes are same, and for number of points, Rigol actually uses smaller font.
Button STOP/RUN looks smeared.
Fonts on Math channels are smaller...
I wear glasses and to me legibility is more important than AA fonts.
These "it is old fashioned" comments are Ok if design is more important than substance.
But when I use these scope all I know these fonts are clear, clean and easily readable. And to me that is only important thing.
My Keysight uses low res screen and blocky fonts and I simply don't notice that. That is the last thing that bothers me on that scope. Screen is clear and crisp and very legible. It looks old fashioned to some? Yeah, don't care. Works very well though.
And Siglent next to it look superior, with (comparatively) huge screen.
My 2 cents.
-
@2N3055, my post was not about the interface (fonts, graphics, etc). This is subjective, I understand anyone who like one or other.
It was about the phisical quality of the display and the way waveforms looks which can be done better on SDS.
I have post the images just for waveform exemplification not for contrast. You can't realize that problem for the images posted. For this I need to take photo with the real screens.
P.S. the images are taken from web interfaces. On Rigol there is a lower quality of the pciture because they choose a lower bitrate on favor of better framerate which is better than Siglent. Siglent choose a higher bitrate, having a beter quality of image, but framerate is slightly lower.
-
Well, this is about the first time I've seen someone complain about the Display quality in a contemporary Siglent DSO.
I don't have an SDS1000X HD, but made a comparison between SDS800X HD, SDS2000X Plus and SDS2000X HD, all with the same picture and same display settings, i.e. everything set to 40%.
Of course there is a noticable difference between SDS2000X Plus and HD - the latter appears brighter and has more contrast - even too much for my taste. The SDS800X HD screen looks slightly weaker than the 2000X Plus, there I like to set everything to 50%, whereas on the 2000X HD I could easily reduce intensity and brightness even further.
Nevertheless, even the 800X HD display is crisp and clear and is perfectly readable. And I guess that's what it's all about in a DSO. I guess it's much more important to have a usable FFT, a mighty fine Bode Plotter, the option for digital channels, accurate and stable measurements, a working Sequence mode and jitter-free AC-trigger and other oddities like that... ;)
-
@2N3055, my post was not about the interface (fonts, graphics, etc). This is subjective, I understand anyone who like one or other.
It was about the phisical quality of the display and the way waveforms looks which can be done better on SDS.
I have post the images just for waveform exemplification not for contrast. You can't realize that problem for the images posted. For this I need to take photo with the real screens.
P.S. the images are taken from web interfaces. On Rigol there is a lower quality of the pciture because they choose a lower bitrate on favor of better framerate which is better than Siglent. Siglent choose a higher bitrate, having a beter quality of image, but framerate is slightly lower.
Thank you for clarification.
3000XHD and 2000XHD have good quality screen. It is nicely legible in very bright office at 50% backlight.
Screen on 800XHD is slightly darker, it has to be at 55-60% for similar brightness. But very crisp and clear.
Combined with anti-glare screen surface it looks superb.
I don't have 1000XHD, and new, dark 1000XHD might have same screen as 2000XHD. But I don't know.
When you do screenshot from web, Siglent does not snap it from VNC frame but saves full screen res.
-
For sure I need to take leassons about communication as nobody understand what I am triying to show ... :)
Nevermind ...
-
I see where skander36 is coming from. It's not just about the UI design and which is "better" (entirely subjective). It's about the available pixels you have to work with, and arguably the most important aspect of any scope is the waveform display. It's what you're ultimately using a scope to get. Higher resolution and pixel density means sharper and more accurate waveform display, not to mention the improved UX from having more flexibility with menus and other features shown alongside the waveform. In this age of HD scopes, why saddle one with a non-HD display that's going to suppress the finer details of a waveform?
I've long been a Siglent fan and have a lot of Siglent gear. I really want the SDS1000X HD (not so much the SDS800X, since I have the DHO1074->DHO1204). Had the SDS1000X HD been released I'd have never succumbed to BF pressure to buy the DHO. However I have to say that Siglent could have done better than a 1024x600 resolution on a 10.1" screen. The Rigol DHO1000 series in the same size screen has 1280x800 resolution. That's 67% more pixels in the same space. 1024x600 is perhaps forgivable in a 7" screen, but not in a 10". Even cheap 10" $50 Chinese Android tablets (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805782417877.html) are coming with 1280x800 screens -- that's about the *minimum* resolution for that size of screen IMO. So it's not like the old days where an HD screen would cost as much as the rest of the scope. My point is, screens are cheap these days and I'm disappointed Siglent chose the lower resolution route here. It's the only thing in my eyes (no pun intended) where Siglent has dropped the ball.
I've spent my entire career working in front of computer displays, and a good part of that career creating software user interfaces. I have always favored high resolution and high pixel density -- it's just the way I'm wired or conditioned. I run 4K monitors with no scaling because of the density of information it brings. Even as I get older and my vision wanes, I prefer smaller fonts with more information on screen. I prefer AA fonts, but I'm less concerned with that. Using 1024x600 on a 10.1" screen just hurts my heart, even though I'd expect the Siglent to be the better overall scope in terms of functionality and performance.
I still imagine I'll trade in the DHO1000 for the SDS1000X HD if the price is favorable, just because it's shaping up to be better in almost every way, but I'll definitely miss the beautiful display of the DHO. Had I never seen the DHO1000's screen, it wouldn't hurt as bad.
-
I see where skander36 is coming from. It's not just about the UI design and which is "better" (entirely subjective). It's about the available pixels you have to work with, and arguably the most important aspect of any scope is the waveform display. It's what you're ultimately using a scope to get. Higher resolution and pixel density means sharper and more accurate waveform display, not to mention the improved UX from having more flexibility with menus and other features shown alongside the waveform. In this age of HD scopes, why saddle one with a non-HD display that's going to suppress the finer details of a waveform?
I've long been a Siglent fan and have a lot of Siglent gear. I really want the SDS1000X HD (not so much the SDS800X, since I have the DHO1074->DHO1204). Had the SDS1000X HD been released I'd have never succumbed to BF pressure to buy the DHO. However I have to say that Siglent could have done better than a 1024x600 resolution on a 10.1" screen. The Rigol DHO1000 series in the same size screen has 1280x800 resolution. That's 67% more pixels in the same space. 1024x600 is perhaps forgivable in a 7" screen, but not in a 10". Even cheap 10" $50 Chinese Android tablets (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805782417877.html) are coming with 1280x800 screens -- that's about the *minimum* resolution for that size of screen IMO. So it's not like the old days where an HD screen would cost as much as the rest of the scope. My point is, screens are cheap these days and I'm disappointed Siglent chose the lower resolution route here. It's the only thing in my eyes (no pun intended) where Siglent has dropped the ball.
I've spent my entire career working in front of computer displays, and a good part of that career creating software user interfaces. I have always favored high resolution and high pixel density -- it's just the way I'm wired or conditioned. I run 4K monitors with no scaling because of the density of information it brings. Even as I get older and my vision wanes, I prefer smaller fonts with more information on screen. I prefer AA fonts, but I'm less concerned with that. Using 1024x600 on a 10.1" screen just hurts my heart, even though I'd expect the Siglent to be the better overall scope in terms of functionality and performance.
I still imagine I'll trade in the DHO1000 for the SDS1000X HD if the price is favorable, just because it's shaping up to be better in almost every way, but I'll definitely miss the beautiful display of the DHO. Had I never seen the DHO1000's screen, it wouldn't hurt as bad.
This is exactly what I wish to show.
SDS1000x-HD will be near the DHO1000 price, so if you can pass over those con points trading DHO for SDS will worth. Applications are very well designed with may usefull options , and Bode plot, FFT, Power Analisys, Math, are well beyond of his class.
-
Is this really what it looks like on the screen, or are there scaling artefacts or such from the web interface?
Yes is exactly as the screen, no artefacts. SDS make a slightly clear screenshots as DHO.
I put a 400kpts screnshot from SDS at 400 kpts along with the same waveform from DHO at 10 kpts.
Also when zoomed out a strange arched structure apear on SDS vs. DHO.
-
Is this really what it looks like on the screen, or are there scaling artefacts or such from the web interface?
Yes is exactly as the screen, no artefacts. SDS make a slightly clear screenshots as DHO.
I put a 400kpts screnshot from SDS at 400 kpts along with the same waveform from DHO at 10 kpts.
Also when zoomed out a strange arched structure apear on SDS vs. DHO.
Interesting. What SDS1000XHD is that? Is that new black one or old beige one from China?
I don't have SDS1000XHD, and as far as I know you still cannot buy one here in EU.
But I have 2000XHD and waveform rendering does not look like that.
Nor it does on 3000XHD.
As I said, I don't like if scope anti-alias waveform. In normal work, you get temporal dithering that serves as that, while showing only real data. Anti-aliasing might look cool to some, but is not "better"...
I personally have problems with anti-aliasing because it makes eyes harder to focus. Eyes keep hunting for focus, because it is basically always blurry, and ayes cannot find a point where it is sharp... I have myopia, which makes it harder...
To me, all screens are all anti-aliased in my "built in vision hardware" ::)
On Siglent you can also enable dot mode and remove potential reconstruction artefacts on repetitive signals...
-
I was about to ask the same. What exact scope was that "SDS1000X HD" screenshot taken on? It looks wrong: The trace is always 2 pixels thick (in the vertical direction), and the vertical steps are always 2 pixels as well.
I have scrolled through various SDX...HD threads, but have not come across suitable screenshots in "stopped" mode for comparison. The traces in "triggered" mode certainly look much smoother and cleaner. Could an owner of the 2000X HD post screenshot of a signal with relatively low noise in "stopped" state?
-
SDS1000x-HD will be near the DHO1000 price, so if you can pass over those con points trading DHO for SDS will worth. Applications are very well designed with may usefull options , and Bode plot, FFT, Power Analisys, Math, are well beyond of his class.
I have no doubt that the SDS1000X HD will be worth its asking price, especially if it's priced in the same MSRP range as the DHO1000. However many of us picked up our DHO1000's as part of the very aggressive Black Friday sale. Combined with the EEVBlog Saelig discount, I paid about $560 US for a $1K MSRP scope, before upgrading it to a $1850 scope. I have no expectation that Siglent will discount the SDS1000XHD by anywhere near that much anytime soon. That said, I can probably get more for my DHO than I paid for it, which would serve to "discount" the SDS1000X even further.
-
In the case of the 1000X HD series, you can expect a little surprise if you take the original prices of the Rigol DHO1104/1204 as a benchmark.
-
...
Interesting. What SDS1000XHD is that? Is that new black one or old beige one from China?
...
The black one.
-
Both, the fat traces and the ripple when zooming in, don't look right to me. As 2N3055 had shown above, the SDS2000X HD makes use of the full vertical resolution. Your screenshots show it cut in half, and I can't see any reason why that should be necessary on the 1000X HD.
Could you try a factory reset and repeat the test, maybe? The Siglent experts here might have further ideas?
The ripple is not a big problem(does not bother me) as I don't zoom often at this level. It appear when interpolation is in sync mode.
But the "8bit like" of the waveform can be a weak point when compared to Rigol DHO1k. If you are doubt of my scope I have attached a sceenshot from SDS1k user manual.
P.S. I have done factory reset few times due to a bug with Power Analisys- PSRR whick lock the function and can be removed only by a factory reset.
-
P.S. I have done factory reset few times due to a bug with Power Analisys
Do I understand correctly that you have an SDS1000XHD?
-
P.S. I have done factory reset few times due to a bug with Power Analisys
Do I understand correctly that you have an SDS1000XHD?
No ... I have SDS1204X-HD :)
-
Both, the fat traces and the ripple when zooming in, don't look right to me. As 2N3055 had shown above, the SDS2000X HD makes use of the full vertical resolution. Your screenshots show it cut in half, and I can't see any reason why that should be necessary on the 1000X HD.
Could you try a factory reset and repeat the test, maybe? The Siglent experts here might have further ideas?
The ripple is not a big problem(does not bother me) as I don't zoom often at this level. It appear when interpolation is in sync mode.
But the "8bit like" of the waveform can be a weak point when compared to Rigol DHO1k. If you are doubt of my scope I have attached a sceenshot from SDS1k user manual.
P.S. I have done factory reset few times due to a bug with Power Analisys- PSRR whick lock the function and can be removed only by a factory reset.
Ripple should bother you. It shouldn't be there. It is not normal. So either you are doing something wrong, or something is wrong with the scope.
-
Ripple should bother you. It shouldn't be there. It is not normal. So either you are doing something wrong, or something is wrong with the scope.
Set your scope in sinc mode interpolation and test.
-
Ripple should bother you. It shouldn't be there. It is not normal. So either you are doing something wrong, or something is wrong with the scope.
Set your scope in sinc mode interpolation and test.
It is in sync mode all the time.. For all the images provided..
Your scope is acting weird.
Run full factory default and security erase followed by self calibration .
If defect is still there, call vendor and start warranty repair process.
-
I tried to replicate the zoom picture from Skander36 on my 2000X-HD and got this:
[attachimg=1]
I don't have a Z1 channel. Is this a new software feature not available on 2000X-HD yet?
My traces do not appear to be double pixel width. But I still think they are a bit pixelated.
-
Ripple should bother you. It shouldn't be there. It is not normal. So either you are doing something wrong, or something is wrong with the scope.
Set your scope in sinc mode interpolation and test.
It is in sync mode all the time.. For all the images provided..
Your scope is acting weird.
Run full factory default and security erase followed by self calibration .
If defect is still there, call vendor and start warranty repair process.
Due to some reasons, and what I see images in Reply #187 (weird Sinc) I will ask@skander36: What is your SDS1204X-HD FW version.
-
Also when zoomed out a strange arched structure apear on SDS vs. DHO.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/?action=dlattach;attach=2021522)
Just tested and mirrored with a prototype SDS1204X HD.
It's an interpolation error only visible under certain setup conditions.
Reported.
HQ has already produced a fix......same day !
-
Just tested and mirrored with a prototype SDS1204X HD.
It's an interpolation error.
Reported.
Could you also test for the blocky, 2-pixel-vertical-increment lines in stop mode please? In the screenshot you shared it looks like the vertical steps and line thickness are 2 pixels tall, but that could be seen more clearly in a "flatter" trace.
Not my screenshot.
Quote corrected.
-
Alright. Anyway, could you please try to also reproduce the screenshot which skander36 had attached to the post that started this part of the SDS1000X HD discussion? Thanks!
Also a 8bit - ish look of the waveform compared with Rigol DHO1K 12 bit. I'm very curious if SDS3000X-HD will be better in that point.
With a recently discovered interpolation issue I fail to see the need and the scope is already off.
Just checked other pen drives but nothing showing the vertical detail you seek.
Later Sunday evening here and tomorrow is another day...stay tuned.
-
Also when zoomed out a strange arched structure apear on SDS vs. DHO.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/?action=dlattach;attach=2021522)
Just tested and mirrored with a prototype SDS1204X HD.
It's an interpolation error only visible under certain setup conditions.
Reported.
Thank you! That's what I thought too.
-
Is this really what it looks like on the screen, or are there scaling artefacts or such from the web interface?
Yes is exactly as the screen, no artefacts. SDS make a slightly clear screenshots as DHO.
I put a 400kpts screnshot from SDS at 400 kpts along with the same waveform from DHO at 10 kpts.
Also when zoomed out a strange arched structure apear on SDS vs. DHO.
You tell here that it is zoomed out but I can see it is zoomed in horizontally using a factor of 400.
Least in image where data length is 400kpts (afaik captured using 20us/div) and then you have stopped acquistion and then you have zoomed deep in (zoomed horizontally 20us/div to 50ns/div ).
Also there is vertically zoomed in but no where can see how much because you have not displayed original run time setup with some reason.
-
Yes, corrected also my previous msg about very obvious vertical zoom in (many important data is missing in skander36 messages - why).
At least I, and many others, I believe, don't have clairvoyant abilities.
Btw, it looks like interpolation bug. Not individual unit failure/problem.
ETA: Updade: This Sinc problem (bug) is regognized and solved by Siglent and fix included in later FW.
-
You tell here that it is zoomed out but I can see it is zoomed in horizontally using a factor of 400.
Least in image where data length is 400kpts (afaik captured using 20us/div) and then you have stopped acquistion and then you have zoomed deep in (zoomed horizontally 20us/div to 50ns/div ).
Also there is vertically zoomed in but no where can see how much because you have not displayed original run time setup with some reason.
What you are trying to say?
Yes it's zoomed out on both direction. It is what is seen when I do zoom to see details of a signal no matter what I do. I don't understand what you are triyng to say.
Software version is 1.1.0.2.
-
Also in math fuctions.
Note: These images are from SDS824X HD (small size version from 1000X HD)
This is captured and then horiz. zoomed in 20ns/div to 10ns/div.
There is Channel 1 normal trace and Channel 1 trace through math function (Ch1 + 0)
After capture, then in stop mode and after then bit zoom in horizontally and vertically.
Image with real sample dots only and then other image these with Sinc interpolation lines.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/?action=dlattach;attach=2022266;image)
Sample dots and math dots alone
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/?action=dlattach;attach=2022260;image)
Dots connected with Sinc interpolation.
(yes there is also some weird tiny detail... but do not look it... but math trace thickness... )
-
You tell here that it is zoomed out but I can see it is zoomed in horizontally using a factor of 400.
Least in image where data length is 400kpts (afaik captured using 20us/div) and then you have stopped acquistion and then you have zoomed deep in (zoomed horizontally 20us/div to 50ns/div ).
Also there is vertically zoomed in but no where can see how much because you have not displayed original run time setup with some reason.
What you are trying to say?
Yes it's zoomed out on both direction. It is what is seen when I do zoom to see details of a signal no matter what I do. I don't understand what you are triyng to say.
Software version is 1.1.0.2.
Zoomed IN.
When publish this kind of info it is least good to inform how these have done because many (most) readers can not know it when just looking images.
But good to know your FW version.
At this time, least I do not know FW version what is factory installed in these units what are later officially available in western countries. Also availability here can be later than official models information release date in outside China.
ETA: Updade: This Sinc problem (bug) is regognized and solved by Siglent and fix included in later FW.
-
Zoomed IN.
When publish this kind of info it is least good to inform how these have done because many (most) readers can not know it when just looking images.
The look of the waveform is what is strange.
The interpolation errors appear only when I zoom in.
But the problem proove that is just a bug.
-
In the case of the 1000X HD series, you can expect a little surprise if you take the original prices of the Rigol DHO1104/1204 as a benchmark.
Good surprise or bad surprise? I think I made up my mind of purchasing either of these scopes. Which one will depend on the prices, and the unlocking abilities.
Few decisions I had to make:
Sacrificing speed, because I'm not going to be able to see high speed with these, but then I just bring the DUT to work to measure it, or buy a 20 year old Lecroy or something to measure those.
AWG: Tried the built in AWG in the SDS1000 series, wasn't impressed, it couldn't even make a 3.3V logic level clock signal that I needed, so external AWG is just much more useful. I can still connect them with USB and make a Bode if both of them is Siglent.
LA: No built in LA, but I tried Sigrok during the Christmas period, and was impressed how useful it was. Most of the decoding I'm doing now are not the usual I2C/SPI/UART signals anyway so the scope's built in decoding options are less useful.
I would be happy if the SDS1000 HD would be in the right price bracket, and it would compete with the Rigol 1000 series. I kinda fear that the SDS800 HD despite of it's name will cost more than most SDS1000 series, but we will see.
-
The wiggly, oscillating interpolation clearly looks like a bug. For the blocky lines on a 2*2 pixel grid, one could argue that it's not a bug, since there is not more information available (assuming that the view was zoomed in vertically). But it is a very poor choice of rendering which makes the scope look bad -- especially given that "12 bit, high resolution" is the main claim here.
In fact, I would argue that Siglent should reconsider their "staircase" rendering of traces in general, since it makes the traces look unnecessarily jagged and pixelated. The programmers can do better: The attached close-ups compare the trace baldurn had shared a few posts above (reply #201) with a Bode plot I grabbed from an older 2000X HD thread.
In my view, the Bode plot shows how to "properly" render curved or diagonal lines, and is both clearer (more precise) and visually more pleasing than the way traces are rendered.
Unfortunately, the budget instruments have to make do with the block RAM in the Zynq SOC, so there are no ressources for pixel mapping at that level. This affects the SDS800X HD, SDS1000X HD and even the good old SDS2000X Plus. which has been around since early 2020 and nobody ever complained.
And if you're honest, this is nothing but cosmetics. For math traces (which are inevitable anyway, as soon as you start digging for details in the noise), there is no restriction at all. Also in Run mode nobody will notice it, because of the hundreds to thousands of records mapped to a single frame on the screen.
-
For math traces (which are inevitable anyway, as soon as you start digging for details in the noise), there is no restriction at all. Also in Run mode nobody will notice it, because of the hundreds to thousands of records mapped to a single frame on the screen.
If that is the case, I don't find the whole thing so dramatic.
-
But the problem proove that is just a bug.
Yes.
And this bug do not exist, least I can not reproduce it, in SDS800X HD.
(But I know it exist in OLD China only version SDS1000X HD)
ETA: Updade: This Sinc problem (bug) in SDS1000X HD is recognized and solved by Siglent and fix included in later FW.
-
For math traces (which are inevitable anyway, as soon as you start digging for details in the noise), there is no restriction at all. Also in Run mode nobody will notice it, because of the hundreds to thousands of records mapped to a single frame on the screen.
If that is the case, I don't find the whole thing so dramatic.
This is something that can only be observed in stopped, single capture. As long as you have scope in run, dithering provides AA... There will always be some noise that will make sure of that...
Like I keep repeating, Keysight MSOX3104T I have here has horrible blocky low res rendering if you start looking at it this way. But in RUN mode, waveform seems fully analog.. Because of dithering effect.
-
Like I keep repeating, Keysight MSOX3104T I have here has horrible blocky low res rendering if you start looking at it this way. But in RUN mode, waveform seems fully analog.. Because of dithering effect.
You miss the ideea ... MSOX3104T is an 8 bit scope. SDS1K HD is 12 bit, but waveform reconstructed on the screen look like an 8 bit scope while his Rigol competitor do a better looking reconstruction in stop mode. This was the meaning of my first post. Is this dramatic? For me is not, but also not pleasant. Also the LCD has a low contrast versus same competitor.
-
Like I keep repeating, Keysight MSOX3104T I have here has horrible blocky low res rendering if you start looking at it this way. But in RUN mode, waveform seems fully analog.. Because of dithering effect.
You miss the ideea ... MSOX3104T is an 8 bit scope. SDS1K HD is 12 bit, but waveform reconstructed on the screen look like an 8 bit scope while his Rigol competitor do a better looking reconstruction in stop mode. This was the meaning of my first post. Is this dramatic? For me is not, but also not pleasant. Also the LCD has a low contrast versus same competitor.
No you are missing the point.
You keep repeating something that is not true.. Screen does not look like 8 bit scope.. If it were 8 bit scope, at that magnification trace would be 10mm thick...
Pleasant? Who cares. It is a nitpicking. It is literally not visible in normal use, at least I didn't notice it.
-
Like I keep repeating, Keysight MSOX3104T I have here has horrible blocky low res rendering if you start looking at it this way. But in RUN mode, waveform seems fully analog.. Because of dithering effect.
You miss the ideea ... MSOX3104T is an 8 bit scope. SDS1K HD is 12 bit, but waveform reconstructed on the screen look like an 8 bit scope while his Rigol competitor do a better looking reconstruction in stop mode. This was the meaning of my first post. Is this dramatic? For me is not, but also not pleasant. Also the LCD has a low contrast versus same competitor.
No you are missing the point.
You keep repeating something that is not true.. Screen does not look like 8 bit scope.. If it were 8 bit scope, at that magnification trace would be 10mm thick...
Pleasant? Who cares. It is a nitpicking. It is literally not visible in normal use, at least I didn't notice it.
You can't see because you don't have Rigol DHO1K. This is a comparison between Siglent SDS1K HD and Rigol DHO1K. Not with Keysight, not SDS800 HD not SDS2000-HD. You reach an apex of denying :)
Go get an read my first post (176). I don't said that is an 8 bit scope but it has an "8 bit" -ish look ...
-
P.S. I have done factory reset few times due to a bug with Power Analisys
Do I understand correctly that you have an SDS1000XHD?
No ... I have SDS1204X-HD :)
Excellent!
Then it would be great if you could keep this thread alive with your impressions:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-12bit-2gsas-oscilloscope-unboxing-test/msg5261787/#msg5261787 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-12bit-2gsas-oscilloscope-unboxing-test/msg5261787/#msg5261787)
The beta testers have either SDS800X HD and/or 3000X HD at the start, but no 1000X HD, so any new input is very welcome.
-
Then it would be great if you could keep this thread alive with your impressions:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-12bit-2gsas-oscilloscope-unboxing-test/msg5261787/#msg5261787 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-12bit-2gsas-oscilloscope-unboxing-test/msg5261787/#msg5261787)
The beta testers have either SDS800X HD and/or 3000X HD at the start, but no 1000X HD, so any new input is very welcome.
For what type of coments I have received for extremely simple and pictures documented comparison, right now I'm not very willing ...
but if you have specific questions you can ask. If I'm able I will try to answer.
-
Could you post a similar comparison of trace appearance on the DHO1000 and SDS1000X-HD in "Run" mode, maybe for the same square wave with the same horizontal and vertical settings? With noise fluctuations and dithering, a trace broadened by one pixel should make very little difference then, I would hope.
Few posts above (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5341559/#msg5341559 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5341559/#msg5341559)) are the the screenshots with same settings (1V/div , 50 ns/div), single capture, no zoom. If I corectly understand your request.
-
Few posts above (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5341559/#msg5341559 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5341559/#msg5341559)) are the the screenshots with same settings (1V/div , 50 ns/div), single capture, no zoom. If I corectly understand your request.
Those are in "stopped" mode, which makes the difference between the single-pixel line of the DHO1000 and the double-pixel line & vertical steps of the SDS1000X HD most clearly visible. I was wondering whether one can still see a difference in "run" mode, while the scopes are dynamically overlaying multiple traces. Both scopes can still capture screenshots in that mode, hopefully?
Ok, you are right! I have missed RUN mode.
In run mode the effect may not seem so obvious for everyone. (for me it is). As many said here the benefit that softare capabilities bring make this aesthetic issue to be easily overcome.
-
I see the point you're making between the two screenshots, including in RUN mode. Though I'm guessing the bug you found is present still in the Siglent screenshot.
In either case, I think the Rigol line looks blurry and it annoys me. Anti Aliasing is a method of visually lying. It can be tweaked well on a computer for crisper edges, but on the Rigol, it looks blurry. If you want your scope to smooth out your line, and lie to you further, then I find it even harder to trust the scope. 🤷
-
I see the point you're making between the two screenshots, including in RUN mode. Though I'm guessing the bug you found is present still in the Siglent screenshot.
In either case, I think the Rigol line looks blurry and it annoys me. Anti Aliasing is a method of visually lying. It can be tweaked well on a computer for crisper edges, but on the Rigol, it looks blurry. If you want your scope to smooth out your line, and lie to you further, then I find it even harder to trust the scope. 🤷
It is your opinion and I will respect it.
-
Okay, I'll say they're both lying in their own ways. 😉
-
Is it TFT LCD panel tech used in the SDS1000HD or IPS.?
-
To chime in on the aliasing-discussion, a pixel-perfect representation is the sharpest, with the highest edge-contrast possible, and edge contrast ist mostly what is perceived as an image being sharp. So Siglents choice to go for pixel-perfect fonts makes total sense for me, even at small size, very legible. There are of course PP fonts available for any size. But the tradeoff are jagged edges, especially for small angles.
If the resolution is high enough, anti-aliasing can be used to blend the edges making it even more pleasing visually.
Where it gets hairy though, is when when the resolution is low enough that an anti-aliased font will start to blend the edges and will even cut into the "skeleton" of the characters itself. Resulting in low contrast as most pixels will already be part of the "edge" and feathered out. An offender would be the Rigol 5000, for everyone who has one, a look at the numbers of the LA channels shows that the brightness within the numbers is uneven, depending on where a pixel lands virtually as to where it is rendered on-screen and thus blended. (I'm sure there is a rule of thumb how many pixels at full intensity there should be before edges are blended)
Taking a look at the latest two screenshots, in the siglent screenshot the top row illustrates this nicely as the font is pixel-perfect, put the symbols aren't. The Rigol screenshots seems unfortunately rescaled as not even the grid is rendered Pixel-perfect.
P.s. As a side-note, the wave-form rendering of the siglent seems a bit unfortunate as the pixels are unsymmetrical, making Y2Y slimmer than X2X.
-
Certainly quite a difference (From #233)
-
Is it TFT LCD panel tech used in the SDS1000HD or IPS.?
I realy don't know, but after backlight brightness I will say that is LCD. But again I have no confirmation.
-
Is it TFT LCD panel tech used in the SDS1000HD or IPS.?
I realy don't know, but after backlight brightness I will say that is LCD. But again I have no confirmation.
From the datasheet:
10.1 TFT LCD with capacitive touch screen
-
Certainly quite a difference (From #233)
To chime in on the aliasing-discussion, a pixel-perfect representation is the sharpest, with the highest edge-contrast possible, and edge contrast ist mostly what is perceived as an image being sharp. So Siglents choice to go for pixel-perfect fonts makes total sense for me, even at small size, very legible. There are of course PP fonts available for any size. But the tradeoff are jagged edges, especially for small angles.
All is well for the font rendering. For the limited resolution of the Siglent screen, I see the benefits of sharp pixels over not-so-convincing anti-aliasing.
It's the rendering of the traces which skander36 demonstrated in various screenshots. You are not supposed to see blocky super-pixels and stepped slopes there. I find that disappointing for a 10" scope with the major selling point of 12-bit resolution. Especially in view of the fact that Siglent is already at a disadvantage vs. Rigol regarding the physical LCD panel, I think they made a bad decision to degrade the trace resolution by another factor of 2.
The Rigol screenshot isn't an accurate representation of what the scope screen actually looks like, I don't have one at hand, but I can't imagine the grid wouldn't be pixel-perfect. As can be seen from the magnification, the grid-dots are often 2-4 pixels in size and quite blurry. Since the original screenshot is 1396 x 872 pixels in size, the image in question was upscaled at some point causing upscaling artifacts. While easily visible on the grid-dots, the trace will also have been altered. And at these small margins, ~9% increase in size, the effect on thin lines is quite destructive and dependent on the upscaling-method. Taking a guess, since everything else has softer edges, the trace will have softer edges as well, as in reality.
-
Is it TFT LCD panel tech used in the SDS1000HD or IPS.?
I realy don't know, but after backlight brightness I will say that is LCD. But again I have no confirmation.
The white balance will be different on those pictures, because the case color, and different camera.
-
Certainly quite a difference (From #233)
To chime in on the aliasing-discussion, a pixel-perfect representation is the sharpest, with the highest edge-contrast possible, and edge contrast ist mostly what is perceived as an image being sharp. So Siglents choice to go for pixel-perfect fonts makes total sense for me, even at small size, very legible. There are of course PP fonts available for any size. But the tradeoff are jagged edges, especially for small angles.
All is well for the font rendering. For the limited resolution of the Siglent screen, I see the benefits of sharp pixels over not-so-convincing anti-aliasing.
It's the rendering of the traces which skander36 demonstrated in various screenshots. You are not supposed to see blocky super-pixels and stepped slopes there. I find that disappointing for a 10" scope with the major selling point of 12-bit resolution. Especially in view of the fact that Siglent is already at a disadvantage vs. Rigol regarding the physical LCD panel, I think they made a bad decision to degrade the trace resolution by another factor of 2.
The Rigol screenshot isn't an accurate representation of what the scope screen actually looks like, I don't have one at hand, but I can't imagine the grid wouldn't be pixel-perfect. As can be seen from the magnification, the grid-dots are often 2-4 pixels in size and quite blurry. Since the original screenshot is 1396 x 872 pixels in size, the image in question was upscaled at some point causing upscaling artifacts. While easily visible on the grid-dots, the trace will also have been altered. And at these small margins, ~9% increase in size, the effect on thin lines is quite destructive and dependent on the upscaling-method. Taking a guess, since everything else has softer edges, the trace will have softer edges as well, as in reality.
Could look like there is some enhancement in play from the blur around the waveform on the Rigol, both screen dumps use PNG, so no EXIF metadata, quite a difference in size 25KB vs 384KB, even though only a minor res bump on the Rigol screen 1280x800 (screen dump 1396x872) vs 1200x600 (1200x600).
I don't have either, the only somewhat bench scope I have with a screen dump (+video) ability is a Micsig, and here the screen dump is native res, but in a JPEG container with EXIF metadata that is possible with the JPEG-std even though its usefulness in a scope is quite limited.
You can work with it in post (fx on the scope's own built-in photo editor) get histograms on color & segment charts, curve the values on fx intensity grading-steps to highlight certain data. http://tinyurl.com/4zdvkb45 (http://tinyurl.com/4zdvkb45)
If I just transfer the scr dump over WIFI or to a USB drive or to the cloud by the inbuilt browser - the screen dump are native, and not processed / upscaled.
Skander36@ since your the lucky owner of both, can you make a correlating setup on both units, and take a camera picture..
-
The white balance will be different on those pictures, because the case color, and different camera.
Same camera.
LE - this are crops.
-
Hi Guys,
Give me a setup, then I can recreate it at work with two "higher end" scopes, an 8-bit 20(40) GSa/s and a 12-bit 10 GSa/s Lecroy scope.
-
Appears to be 5MHz square at 6Vpp on their earlier Stopped screen shots. Looks soo sad on my desperately antiquated SDS2504XP in 10bit mode. 😉
-
Hey people where are you going?
My first post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5339594/#msg5339594 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5339594/#msg5339594)
show all I want to show. No other setups. The Siglent waveform reconstructed in stop mode doesn't look as the Rigol. Some people say they are ok wiht that. I agree. This is not a dealbreaker, is just a matter of preference. I don't regret buying SDS1KHD. I consider it superior to DHO1K in many other aspects.
-
Still no news about the SDS3000X HD release date ? Or there is another topic I can't find it ...
I've seen that on siglent.eu it's an empty page for this model, just waiting a push-button to be fill with specs and prices :
https://www.siglent.eu/sds3000x-hd-series (https://www.siglent.eu/sds3000x-hd-series)
The only english datasheet I've found is here :
https://siglent.co.jp/u_file/download/24_02_23/SDS3000X%20HD_Datasheet_EN01A.pdf (https://siglent.co.jp/u_file/download/24_02_23/SDS3000X%20HD_Datasheet_EN01A.pdf)
-
Hi,
Official release date for all the three series (800,1000,3000) is 28.02.2024.....
-
OK, so I was complaining that the SDS2000 HD pricing was nonsensical.
Take a look at this now:
Siglent SDS3034X HD 4CH 12-bit 350MHz Oscilloscope €3,380
Siglent SDS2204X HD 4CH 12-bit 200MHz Oscilloscope €3,312
Siglent SDS2354X HD 4CH 12-bit 350MHz Oscilloscope €4,210
-
Wait and see...
With the release of the larger model, it should be clear that the prices of the smaller model will either change or the series will be taken off the market.
I believe in the former, to the delight of all those who want to buy an excellent scope for affordable money.
-
With the 3000 series priced above 3000€, and the new 1000 series priced at 1000€+, it seems like there is a comfortable space in the 2000 - 3000€ range for the 2000 series...
In Europe prices 28.02.2024, (Siglent official) MSRP, VAT 0% (note some price adjust in SDS2000X HD serie)
SDS3034X HD EUR 3380.00 350MHz
SDS3054X HD EUR 4680.00 500MHz
SDS3104X HD EUR 5980.00 1GHz
SDS2104X HD EUR 1880.00 100MHz
SDS2204X HD EUR 2288.00 200MHz
SDS2354X HD EUR 2880.00 350MHz
SDS1104X HD EUR 1099.00 100MHz
SDS1204X HD EUR 1299.00 200MHz
SDS804X HD EUR 409.00 70MHz
SDS814X HD EUR 499.00 100MHz
SDS824X HD EUR 699.00 200MHz
ETA: typo corrected.
-
For this price, the SDS2104X HD can become a best seller for mid-class oscilloscopes.
I think to trade my DHO1074. Even if I add 1000 euro more, the SDS is a much better option.
-
SDS2104X HD EUR 1880.00 100MHz
Now it's definitely the best buy, it already was before in terms of "ability", and now also in terms of price.
-
SDS2104X HD EUR 1880.00 100MHz
Now it's definitely the best buy, it already was before in terms of "ability", and now also in terms of price.
Add 235 Euro for the SDS2XHD-BND option bundle on promotion.
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/# (https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/#)
-
SDS2104X HD EUR 1880.00 100MHz
Now it's definitely the best buy, it already was before in terms of "ability", and now also in terms of price.
Can't find anyone selling it for this price.
-
Is it the exact same screen that goes again on quite a lot of the models in the current lineup.?
[10.1 TFT LCD 1024x600]
-
* SDS1000X HD
* SDS2000X Plus
* SDS2000X HD
* SDS3000X HD
* SDS5000X
-
But the SDS1000X HD cannot drive it at full resolution when displaying traces; vertical resolution is cut in half by always displaying double-pixels.
Nitpicking: The fact that they double the pixels doesn't mean the display isn't being driven at full resolution. ;)
-
Seems to be the same screen; certainly the same size and physical resolution. But the SDS1000X HD cannot drive it at full resolution when displaying traces; vertical resolution is cut in half by always displaying double-pixels. (That only applies to CH1..CH4 traces; math results are displayed with full resolution.)
This is not an 1000X-HD specific, but how Siglent choose to do on all models from all times ... My SDS1202X-E looks the same... I have expected that on 12 bit generation to look better but that is. It is just an aesthetic point of view it doesn't affect the technical performance.
-
This is not an 1000X-HD specific, but how Siglent choose to do on all models from all times ... My SDS1202X-E looks the same... I have expected that on 12 bit generation to look better but that is. It is just an aesthetic point of view it doesn't affect the technical performance.
That is incorrect. Just look at any screenshot from the SDS2000X HD series; they have full single-pixel resolution in X and Y. I am pretty sure that the 3000 series will be the same. Performa01 has explained in one of the HD threads that the reduced resolution of the 800 and 1000 series is due to the cheaper Zync FPGA and its limited block RAM.
Whether the reduced resolution is "just aesthetic" can be debated. Yes, I get the "analytical scope, use measurements, use math" argument. But it's an oscilloscope after all, which kind of suggests that it is good at letting you look at oscillations. ;)
For the 1000X HD, being a 12-bit scope with a 10" screen, I think Siglent made an unfortunate tradeoff. If I pay extra for the large screen and the high ADC resolution, I would also want to see nice and clean traces. Personally I will choose the 824 instead of the 1204 -- it's nearly a factor of 2 in price, which I can't justify given the limited benefits. YMMV of course.
No. They all looks the same. Look carefully.
-
No. They all looks the same. Look carefully.
Not sure where your screenshot came from and which model was used. I looked at this post, for example, and I can clearly see the single-pixel steps:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-missing-features-and-bugs/msg4606060/#msg4606060 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-missing-features-and-bugs/msg4606060/#msg4606060)
(Attachment Link)
We are talking about SDS1000X-HD. So this screenshot come from an SDS1204X-HD. Also attached the same wave in stop mode.
But if you try to accuse me that I use images from another scopes (sources) to cover my words I don't see a point to continue ...
-
We are talking about SDS1000X-HD. So this screenshot come from an SDS1204X-HD. Also attached the same wave in stop mode.
But if you try to accuse me that I use images from another scopes (sources) to cover my words I don't see a point to continue ...
I am not attacking you -- but I have certainly lost you. Please re-read the most recent posts:
I explained that the SDS100X HD series, specifically, does not make full use of the physical screen resolution (#265). You replied and claimed that this is not specific to the 1000 series, but that "all Siglent scopes from all times" have done it that way, including the 12-bit scopes (#267). I stated that this is not the case, and that the higher-end 12-bit scopes are doing a proper job (#268).
Not sure where we got our wires crossed, it all seems clear enough to me.
It is not specific to 1000X-HD. 2000X-HD waveform is looking the same as 1000X HD. Get one and you will see.
-
It is not specific to 1000X-HD. 2000X-HD waveform is looking the same as 1000X HD. Get one and you will see.
So how did the screenshot in my reply #270 (and the 2000X HD-related post linked there) come to be? ???
And why did Performa01 specifically state that the reduced resolution is due to the cost-optimized FPGA choice in the 800 and 1000 series?
Yeah whatever ... forget about ...
-
For the 1000X HD, being a 12-bit scope with a 10" screen, I think Siglent made an unfortunate tradeoff. If I pay extra for the large screen and the high ADC resolution, I would also want to see nice and clean traces. Personally I will choose the 824 instead of the 1204 -- it's nearly a factor of 2 in price, which I can't justify given the limited benefits. YMMV of course.
Yes, this is my opinion, too.
800X HD it's an 1000 with a smaller screen.
If you need more than 800X HD, better go to 2000X HD, significant changes (better) in all departments compared with 1000X HD. Including the one-vs-two pixels "issue".
-
SDS2104X HD EUR 1880.00 100MHz
Now it's definitely the best buy, it already was before in terms of "ability", and now also in terms of price.
Add 235 Euro for the SDS2XHD-BND option bundle on promotion.
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/# (https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/#)
For sure. Now we need some patience, because the distributors still have the old (higher) price.
-
Yeah whatever ... forget about ...
That's not a great way of saying "Oops, sorry, I got confused". But ok, I am happy to forget about it.
This is kind a pervert way. Everyone can see that I don't said that.
I just dont want to continue that discussion which is not going anywhere.
-
I don't have 1000xHD to test.
But here are 800xHD images:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5361203/#msg5361203 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5361203/#msg5361203)
So it does NOT always render traces 2 pixels high. Only when noisy and values are "in between".
It does best with resolution it has.
I'm guessing that 1000xHD does the same.
And again, it is not something you even notice if you don't look for it with magnifying glass.
Really.
Not "defending" anything here, I literally had to go and verify if 2000xHD was rendering this way. I didn't know..
I'm not denying effect is there but really not something you even notice unless somebody points to it.
You literally need to look at it with magnifying glass (real or virtual).
Granted, I wear eyeglasses... So maybe people with perfect vision can spot it with naked eye at normal working distance... But not very likely.
-
Yes, this is my opinion, too.
800X HD it's an 1000 with a smaller screen.
If you need more than 800X HD, better go to 2000X HD, significant changes (better) in all departments compared with 1000X HD. Including the one-vs-two pixels "issue".
To be fair, the 1000X HD has some additional benefits over the 800, besides the larger screen. 50 Ohm inputs, separate trigger input, another USB jack... But not enough to justify nearly twice the price, at least for me.
The 2000X HD is a much more desirable scope: full vertical resolution, higher sampling rate, support for the fully integrated logic analyser with its nice probe. But even at the new pricing it is a big step up from the 1000 series; more than I can justify for a hobby toy. But for more serious use, it seems that the 2000 series should be the choice over the 1000.
That is the reason that they have 800-1000-2000-3000 progression in 12 bit gamut....
If you don't need full set of capabilities, you can scale down towards budget that is acceptable to you.
-
So it does NOT always render traces 2 pixels high. Only when noisy and values are "in between".
It does best with resolution it has.
I'm guessing that 1000xHD does the same.
A direct comparison 1000x vs 2000x display traces can be very useful for some of us.
Since the resolution is "only" 1024x600, on a 10 inch screen, it is possible to see some "imperfections" of the traces.
Perhaps a 1280x800 resolution (like Rigol's DHO) would have been a better decision, as the signal processing from Siglent is quite good.
But it probably would have involved other compromises related to display speed and price.
Given that I already have a "nice display" with not so good advanced signal processing quality from the DHO, I still lean towards the Siglent route ...
-
The 1099 Euro price for the SDS1104X HD is not translating to the USD price, which Siglent is showing as $1399 MSRP. Today's exchange rate is around 1.08, with 1099 Euro coming in at ~$1189 USD, so not sure why the substantial difference.
Given that extra cost and the limited screen resolution issue (as I've also said before, I'm also disappointed in Siglent's direction here for the bigger 10" screen res), I'm not sure I'll be trading my upgraded DHO1074 after all. The screen is simply beautiful to look at, and at the end of the day, I'm just a hobbyist who is less likely to run up against the feature shortcomings in the DHO line. Considering that I'm less than $600 invested (BF deal) into a scope currently configured as a $1850 MSRP scope, I'm not sure the extra functionality at 2x+ the price I paid while giving up the display resolution on a 10" screen, is worth it for me. And especially if the resale value of the DHO line plunges soon.
I really was looking forward to this Siglent release, too. Maybe I'll consider the 800 series, again as I don't NEED anything more than that (or even that), but I'm already spoiled by the DHO display and it will feel like a downgrade in UX even if it has other benefits.
-
No. They all looks the same. Look carefully.
Not sure where your screenshot came from and which model was used. I looked at this post, for example, and I can clearly see the single-pixel steps:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-missing-features-and-bugs/msg4606060/#msg4606060 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-missing-features-and-bugs/msg4606060/#msg4606060)
(Attachment Link)
That's B.S. You can't zoom a raster image and expect to see perfect accuracy. You need vector graphics for that.
-
That's B.S. You can't zoom a raster image and expect to see perfect accuracy. You need vector graphics for that.
I did not expect the lines to become smooth. This was done to demonstrate that the underlying SDS2000X HD image can actually use individual pixels (rather than groups of two) when displaying traces. I deliberately disabled all interpolation in the bitmap editor, such that each individual pixel got scaled up to a 4x4 block, to make those pixels visible.
When I said "I can clearly see the single-pixel steps", that is a good thing -- better than seeing double-pixel steps.
Was the B.S. accusation really necessary?
I was just saying that zooming a raster image is pointless (not directed at you, directed at the image 😉). If you really want to compare, use my other suggestion of taking a CSV export from the scope and viewing it in Excel as a plot.
-
https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS3034X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS3034X-hd.html)
Soon...soon.... 8)
-
Hello,
A table of ERES bandwidths for the SDS3000X HD
Best regards
egonotto
-
12+4bits, that was only available from the 6000 pro H12 until now, I say the 3000 could be a slimmed down version and that would be very good.
I had a quick look at the manual earlier.
There is a "new" function called gate analysis, you can define a gate and decode in this defined gate, for example... Awesome.
The 3000 seems to have a bit more horsepower than the 2000.
-
Siglents product strategy certainly is a bit strange. The 1000HD is competing hard with the 2000HD. For two and a half times the price, you're really not getting that much more. The upgraded bandwidth is hardly useful at 4Gs/s. 350MHz is already pushing it if you want more than 1 useful channel. And the "500MHz" makes Harry Nyquist chuckle in his grave.
If I'd bought a 2000HD recently, i'd feel ripped off.
-
Siglents product strategy certainly is a bit strange. The 1000HD is competing hard with the 2000HD. For two and a half times the price, you're really not getting that much more. The upgraded bandwidth is hardly useful at 4Gs/s. 350MHz is already pushing it if you want more than 1 useful channel. And the "500MHz" makes Harry Nyquist chuckle in his grave.
If I'd bought a 2000HD recently, i'd feel ripped off.
And what about the position of the SDS2000X plus? Will it be declared EOL by Siglent soon? Where to position it in their product range now? I was about to buy a 2000X Plus but I am surely hestitating now. Waiting for the first 1000HD reviews and user experiences. And also what the V1.6 update for the 2000X Plus will bring.
-
Siglents product strategy certainly is a bit strange. The 1000HD is competing hard with the 2000HD. For two and a half times the price, you're really not getting that much more. The upgraded bandwidth is hardly useful at 4Gs/s. 350MHz is already pushing it if you want more than 1 useful channel. And the "500MHz" makes Harry Nyquist chuckle in his grave.
If I'd bought a 2000HD recently, i'd feel ripped off.
Not sure about it being a ripoff honestly. With the price reduction and the options bundle you can get a really good 12-bit MSO with AWG and LA for around €2000 plus taxes, which is less than twice, not twice and a half. I don't think there is any competition at that price point.
-
Siglents product strategy certainly is a bit strange. The 1000HD is competing hard with the 2000HD.
I would think about it again. ;)
-
Siglents product strategy certainly is a bit strange. The 1000HD is competing hard with the 2000HD. For two and a half times the price, you're really not getting that much more. The upgraded bandwidth is hardly useful at 4Gs/s. 350MHz is already pushing it if you want more than 1 useful channel. And the "500MHz" makes Harry Nyquist chuckle in his grave.
If I'd bought a 2000HD recently, i'd feel ripped off.
Very firm opinions based on incomplete and/or wrong set of data it seems....
And if you have just bought a new car a month before new generation was released you would have same situation... Why would that be cheating?
It wasn't like it was a secret..
If you need something explained, please, ask away...
-
You might see that differently, and that opinion may be affected by what you look for in a scope. But where are the USP für the 2000?
Same sample rate. Both 12 bit. Same screen resolution. Both have MSO capability. The 1000 includes all decoding, where as it's an option in the 2000. Both don't support active probes (that would justify
a major price difference for me). Both have gate test included. Feel free to tell me the €2600 feature I'm missing.
Unless you're in automotive and meddle in FlexRay and flex rate CAN, I fail to see how a 1000 would make my work significantly harder.
-
If I'd bought a 2000HD recently, i'd feel ripped off.
That's why I didn't buy one. ;) I'll wait for a 4000HD so that I don't get that ripoff feeling with the 1000HD...
-
Same sample rate. Both 12 bit.
Configured very differently.
2000X HD uses 2x 2GSa/s ADC's to maintain 1 GSa/s when all channels are active.
This meets Nyquist for 350 MHz capability with 4 active channels and in fact if the 500 MHz option is installed it is BW limited to 350 MHz.
Double the mem depth also with each ADC provided with 200 Mpts vs 100 Mpts in SDS1000X HD that gets divided down by the # of channels in use.
Add MSO and AWG HW that is already in SDS2000X HD and cost differences become apparent.
Oh and I forgot the dual Zone triggers.
-
You might see that differently, and that opinion may be affected by what you look for in a scope. But where are the USP für the 2000?
Same sample rate. Both 12 bit. Same screen resolution. Both have MSO capability. The 1000 includes all decoding, where as it's an option in the 2000. Both don't support active probes (that would justify
a major price difference for me). Both have gate test included. Feel free to tell me the €2600 feature I'm missing.
Unless you're in automotive and meddle in FlexRay and flex rate CAN, I fail to see how a 1000 would make my work significantly harder.
They slimmed down the 1000X-HD by chopping the sample rate when using 2 channels to 1 GSa/s and 500 MSa's with 3/4 channels. Only 100 Mpts. No internal AWG and Logic but you can use their external Logic anl.
Personally I was choose 1000X-HD even if I the 2000X-HD was offered to a difference of 800E. I had a discussion with 2N3055 which made me a detailed comparison of both models at specification level and I have choose.
1000X-hd is a good choice if you already have others scopes that have what is missing in it.
If this will be your only scope I think that the best choice between 1000X-HD and 2000X- HD is the last : 2000X-HD. Is pretty complete in itself .
-
2000X HD uses 2x 2GSa/s ADC's to maintain 1 GSa/s when all channels are active.
1000X-HD also have the same 2x 2GSa/s ADC's ... but not using in the same configuration to preserve distance from 2000X-HD.
-
2000X HD uses 2x 2GSa/s ADC's to maintain 1 GSa/s when all channels are active.
1000X-HD also have the same 2x 2GSa/s ADC's ... but not using in the same configuration to preserve distance from 2000X-HD.
I did say:
Configured very differently.
And those that have SDS2000X HD will know how very quiet it is.
-
2000X HD uses 2x 2GSa/s ADC's to maintain 1 GSa/s when all channels are active.
1000X-HD also have the same 2x 2GSa/s ADC's ... but not using in the same configuration to preserve distance from 2000X-HD.
I did say:
Configured very differently.
And those that have SDS2000X HD will know how very quiet it is.
yeah, just to mention this config ... stupid if you ask me ...
I don't know how silent is 2kHD but as the users compared with RTB2K, then yes 1KHD is not so silent but is pretty good as a noise level(less than half of Rigol 1KHD).
-
Add MSO and AWG HW that is already in SDS2000X HD and cost differences become apparent.
Both are options that need to be purchased separately, so I don't see how that explains the price difference.
https://www.siglent.eu/product/7586846/sds2000x-hd-mso-digital-activation-license-spl2016-license-and-hardware (https://www.siglent.eu/product/7586846/sds2000x-hd-mso-digital-activation-license-spl2016-license-and-hardware)
https://www.siglent.eu/product/7567963/sds2000hd-fg-25mhz-built-in-function-generator-option (https://www.siglent.eu/product/7567963/sds2000hd-fg-25mhz-built-in-function-generator-option)
-
Add MSO and AWG HW that is already in SDS2000X HD and cost differences become apparent.
Both are options that need to be purchased separately, so I don't see how that explains the price difference.
https://www.siglent.eu/product/7586846/sds2000x-hd-mso-digital-activation-license-spl2016-license-and-hardware (https://www.siglent.eu/product/7586846/sds2000x-hd-mso-digital-activation-license-spl2016-license-and-hardware)
https://www.siglent.eu/product/7567963/sds2000hd-fg-25mhz-built-in-function-generator-option (https://www.siglent.eu/product/7567963/sds2000hd-fg-25mhz-built-in-function-generator-option)
For SDS1000X HD both the external HW and licenses are needed. Only licenses and the much better SPL2016 for SDS2000X HD and it's 2k and up siblings plus there is a promotional bundle active for 2kX Plus, HD and all the higher 8 bit models.
-
For SDS1000X HD both the external HW and licenses are needed. [...]
Well, the internal AWG is nice if you want to save bench space, but if I didn't own an SDG2k already, and given the choice between the internal AWG and an SDG1032 (which has two channels and 5Mhz more range), for some €50 more, I don't think the offer could convince me. The value proposition is a bit weak.
Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.
The SPL2016 admittedly is a lot nicer, but it's not like the SLA1016 is bad.
-
For SDS1000X HD both the external HW and licenses are needed. [...]
Well, the internal AWG is nice if you want to save bench space, but if I didn't own an SDG2k already, and given the choice between the internal AWG and an SDG1032 (which has two channels and 5Mhz more range), for some €50 more, I don't think the offer could convince me. The value proposition is a bit weak.
Standalone AWG is always better offering 2 channels and considerably more functionality and output drive.
Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.
Some prefer the simple USB connection, others that might have their AWG further away, the LAN connectivity for Bode plot.
Either way, inbuilt or external it's painless as the scope takes charge of the AWG to do the frequency sweeps.
The SPL2016 admittedly is a lot nicer, but it's not like the SLA1016 is bad.
Not in the same class and our sales records are evidence of such.
I know which I much prefer. ;)
-
For SDS1000X HD both the external HW and licenses are needed. [...]
Well, the internal AWG is nice if you want to save bench space, but if I didn't own an SDG2k already, and given the choice between the internal AWG and an SDG1032 (which has two channels and 5Mhz more range), for some €50 more, I don't think the offer could convince me. The value proposition is a bit weak.
Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.
The SPL2016 admittedly is a lot nicer, but it's not like the SLA1016 is bad.
Let us not confuse fact that SDS1000xHD is amazing scope for the price and good fit for you with stating there is no difference between the 1000/2000..
SDS2000xHD has additional:
- BW up to 500MHz.
- 2x2GS 4x1GS ADC converters
- many more decodes/triggers
- MSO is built in and fully integrated into triggering (including mixed digital/analog)triggers. SLA1016 has very nice sampling rate, but there are some limitations by it being external sampling hardware. Performa01 made very good (amazing work, in fact) review of 800xHD in which he, among many other things, addresses working with SLA1016 and details about it. I highly suggest reading it.
- additional acquisitions modes.
Those are just of top of my head. There is more but those are obvious. 2000xHD is definitely class up.
If none of that is important to you , then SDS1000xHD is great choice and SDS2000xHD in not needed for you....
If you only need subset of features of SDS2000xHD that is covered in SDS1000xHD, there is no need to pay more for stuff you won't use..
That is good logic, and reason why Siglent decided to make 800xHD,1000xHD and 3000xHD...
-
There were some mentions of disadvantages of external logic analyzer SoC as well as opposed to internal like the 2kHD has
"
The external subsystem approach has a few disadvantages:
• Since it incorporates a complete SOC and local memory, it cannot be cheap even though the probe head and the grabbers leave a cheap impression.
• Mixed analog / digital pattern trigger is not possible.
• Zoom mode cannot be used as soon as digital channels are enabled.
• History doesn’t work either when digital channels are activated.
"
Reply #7 - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293765/#msg5293765 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293765/#msg5293765)
-
There were some mentions of disadvantages of external logic analyzer SoC as well as opposed to internal like the 2kHD has
"
The external subsystem approach has a few disadvantages:
• Since it incorporates a complete SOC and local memory, it cannot be cheap even though the probe head and the grabbers leave a cheap impression.
• Mixed analog / digital pattern trigger is not possible.
• Zoom mode cannot be used as soon as digital channels are enabled.
• History doesn’t work either when digital channels are activated.
"
Reply #7 - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293765/#msg5293765 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293765/#msg5293765)
Yes, thank you, that is the Performa's topic with his excellent review.
Highly recommended. Even if you are not a Siglent user.
So much good info on scopes in general..
-
For SDS1000X HD both the external HW and licenses are needed. [...]
Well, the internal AWG is nice if you want to save bench space, but if I didn't own an SDG2k already, and given the choice between the internal AWG and an SDG1032 (which has two channels and 5Mhz more range), for some €50 more, I don't think the offer could convince me. The value proposition is a bit weak.
Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.
The SPL2016 admittedly is a lot nicer, but it's not like the SLA1016 is bad.
For me it's a bigger issue that the built in AWGs don't do CMOS level (or even TTL level) output voltages. At least that's what I've found on the SDS1000something I tried. And based on the datasheet of the SDS2000 HD and the external USB generators I think it's the case for these ones as well. That's a bit too much compromise for me, so I kind of made up my mind about using an external AWG anyway. With the USB control built into Siglent, I could still make bode plots (without boring scripting), and the AWG is relatively inexpensive.
-
For SDS1000X HD both the external HW and licenses are needed. [...]
Well, the internal AWG is nice if you want to save bench space, but if I didn't own an SDG2k already, and given the choice between the internal AWG and an SDG1032 (which has two channels and 5Mhz more range), for some €50 more, I don't think the offer could convince me. The value proposition is a bit weak.
Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.
The SPL2016 admittedly is a lot nicer, but it's not like the SLA1016 is bad.
For me it's a bigger issue that the built in AWGs don't do CMOS level (or even TTL level) output voltages. At least that's what I've found on the SDS1000something I tried. And based on the datasheet of the SDS2000 HD and the external USB generators I think it's the case for these ones as well. That's a bit too much compromise for me, so I kind of made up my mind about using an external AWG anyway. With the USB control built into Siglent, I could still make bode plots (without boring scripting), and the AWG is relatively inexpensive.
I agree. Built in AWG is nice thing sometimes, and for instance on Keysight (I have 3000T) built in AWG is only option to have FRA....
But Siglent's implementation of integration of external AWGs is so well done and seamless that external AWG is always better option, provided you can bear the cost difference. More channels, more amplitude, separate UI...
EDIT : corrected.....
As for levels, internal AWGs are mostly 5V/2,5V at 50Ω/HiZ.
-
For SDS1000X HD both the external HW and licenses are needed. [...]
Well, the internal AWG is nice if you want to save bench space, but if I didn't own an SDG2k already, and given the choice between the internal AWG and an SDG1032 (which has two channels and 5Mhz more range), for some €50 more, I don't think the offer could convince me. The value proposition is a bit weak.
Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.
The SPL2016 admittedly is a lot nicer, but it's not like the SLA1016 is bad.
For me it's a bigger issue that the built in AWGs don't do CMOS level (or even TTL level) output voltages. At least that's what I've found on the SDS1000something I tried. And based on the datasheet of the SDS2000 HD and the external USB generators I think it's the case for these ones as well. That's a bit too much compromise for me, so I kind of made up my mind about using an external AWG anyway. With the USB control built into Siglent, I could still make bode plots (without boring scripting), and the AWG is relatively inexpensive.
I agree. Built in AWG is nice thing sometimes, and for instance on Keysight (I have 3000T) built in AWG is only option to have FRA....
But Siglent's implementation of integration of external AWGs is so well done and seamless that external AWG is always better option, provided you can bear the cost difference. More channels, more amplitude, separate UI...
As for levels, internal AWGs are mostly 5V/2,5V at 50Ω/HiZ.
Unfortunately they aren't. This is from the Datasheet of the SDS2000HD:
Amplitude Range -1.5 V ~ +1.5 V (into 50 Ω) -3 V ~ +3 V (into High-Z)
I said, that's OK, I just add the DC offset. The MSOX3104 will dot that, and you can get 0-5V output level. But there seems to be a hardware limitation that even with the DC offset, the output is limited to these levels. Which s fair, it's a different class of instruments. And even for ~300 EUR, you get a AWG from Siglent that runs circles around the built in in any scope on the market.
-
Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.
I use SDG/SDS connected by usb for Bode plottting, and it's really as easy as you could hope.
And I highly prefer having two different gears.
-
I always ignored the integrated AWGs because they were not sufficient in terms of amplitude alone.
-
I can confirm that working with an external AWG works perfectly fine.
-
ipod nano's were for girls.
-
https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS3034X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS3034X-hd.html)
Soon...soon.... 8)
The delivery time display has changed from 5-10 to 11-21 days. :(
Maybe I'm lucky and it won't affect me.
-
Hello,
my order confirmation says "available in about 4 weeks"
Best regards
egonotto
-
Out of curiosity, how long is it usually between the release of a new scope like this and the first firmware update?
-
Based on my experience with the SDS2000X HD, just under a year....
No, if there are really "bad" bugs, they are usually fixed quickly.
The "problem" with the SDS2000X HD was that it is based on software that is already very mature, so there was no update so quickly.
The 3000X HD/1000X HD will be no different.
@egonotto:
Also an SDS3034X HD ? Very nice, then I'm not alone... :D
-
@egonotto:
Also an SDS3034X HD ? Very nice, then I'm not alone... :D
Hello,
yes. I briefly thought of a SDS824X HD or a SDS7304A H12. I would have liked the SDS7304A H12 very much, but it's too expensive and too big for me. The SDS3034X HD is a good compromise.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Out of curiosity, how long is it usually between the release of a new scope like this and the first firmware update?
For 1000X-HD is already a quick update in preparing that solved the issue with the wave extreme zooming from here : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5340866/#msg5340866 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5340866/#msg5340866)
also the PSRR measurement stuck.
-
Hello,
yes. I briefly thought of a SDS824X HD or a SDS7304A H12.
The differences inbetween couldn´t be higher.... ;D
But I know exactly how you feel, I feel the same way.
I'd love to buy the 7000 too, but then my clan wouldn't love me for the rest of my life if all we had to eat for a few years was soup in a bag. ;)
-
Hello,
an additional problem with me is that I don't have space. When the SDS3034X HD comes, it is put where the DHO1074 used to be and the DHO1074 goes somewhere on the floor.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Same problem, but the one that is now on the floor is Keysight2k. Rigol still stand with Siglent ... :)
-
Same problem, but the one that is now on the floor is Keysight2k. Rigol still stand with Siglent ... :)
I don't understand those having several scopes, but I know it's very common, especially on eevblog. I must be the weird one ? :-//
Anyway, nice to see rigol & siglent side by side, there's a lot of passion in both 'fans' here...
-
I don't understand those having several scopes, but I know it's very common, especially on eevblog. I must be the weird one ? :-//
Hello,
I can only speak for myself. I'm kind of a collector. That doesn't have much to do with reason for me.
Best regards
egonotto
-
I don't understand those having several scopes, but I know it's very common, especially on eevblog. I must be the weird one ?
It depends on what you're doing. For some applications you need a high bandwidth high sample rate scope while for other things you need low noise and accuracy and sample rate is not so important.
The remained in my case is perhaps nostalgia. I know how many weeks I worked for a 20 MHz analog scope when I was 18. Although useless today I still have that scope. Not a single scratch. I only mounted the mains transformer in an external enclosure to get rid of hum which could be seen on the screen.
-
I "only" have two bench scopes, and a few handhelds. I can only hope I don't get bitten by the collector bug like I did with DMMs. I'm up to almost 40 now and can't stop buying them.
-
I don't understand those having several scopes, but I know it's very common, especially on eevblog. I must be the weird one ?
It depends on what you're doing. For some applications you need a high bandwidth high sample rate scope while for other things you need low noise and accuracy and sample rate is not so important.
Agreed with this. I have an SDS2000X+ for general use, a picoscope 4262 for noise floor type work, and a cleverscope CS320A-FRA for frequency response analysis.
I'm interested in the SDS3000X HD, but if I ever get one, I'd sell the SDS2000X+.
-
Hello,
How does the FRA of the CS320A-FRA compare to the Bode Plot from Siglent?
Best Regards
egonotto
-
How does the FRA of the CS320A-FRA compare to the Bode Plot from Siglent?
I wonder too. I didn't know about this CS320A-FRA. Apparently it's a 0~65MHz sinewave generator + 12bit 8Msps scope.
I'm no expert, but i can do bode plot with my DDS (60MHz) and sds1204-x
Ok, not exactly 65MHz and the scope is "only" 8-bit. But is it really different ? Or is it because it's all integrated ?
Your (slugrustle) scope SDS2000X+ can do 10bit moreover.. ?
-
It depends on what you're doing. For some applications you need a high bandwidth high sample rate scope while for other things you need low noise and accuracy and sample rate is not so important.
I understand that very well, that's why there's such a wide range of scopes.
I guess it could happen that the same person have needs for very different scopes, but that would probably be professionals, and i expected this to be rare. I mean, once you got one of those expensive scopes, is there really anything you couldn't do with them ?
-
The CS320A-FRA is a 100MS/s 14-bit scope. Nice thing is, its integrated signal generator is isolated / floating so it doesn't need an injection transformer. I got it because of the higher bit depth and because the software that comes with it has dedicated modes for frequency response and related analyses. I've found it to work well.
To be honest, I've never tried Siglent's bode plot.
-
I don't understand those having several scopes, but I know it's very common, especially on eevblog. I must be the weird one ? :-//
I bought a siglent 2000HD last year and I'm very happy with it. anymay I still have a hameg 407 for the component tester, and a metrix 8042 for the differential probes
-
I guess it could happen that the same person have needs for very different scopes, but that would probably be professionals, and i expected this to be rare. I mean, once you got one of those expensive scopes, is there really anything you couldn't do with them ?
The combination of 9µV RMS noise floor and 16 bit depth in the picoscope 4262 is pretty special. I don't think a very high end scope could do the same sorts of things because high end scopes tend to emphasize speed. The 4262 has 5MHz bandwidth, lol.
I looked around a long time for any sort of instrument that could do spectrum analysis at low frequency with a low noise floor and wide dynamic range. They don't make spectrum analyzers like that anymore; everything is specified at 9kHz and up with 50Ω inputs. So while I got this as a second, "special" scope, I really mostly use it as a spectrum analyzer in FFT mode. And maybe that kind of proves your point, if you were thinking about time domain type applications for a scope.
-
Hello,
I wonder if you can get close to a Picoscope 4262 with an SDS3000X HD with ERES and filter?
Best regards
egonotto
-
I guess it could happen that the same person have needs for very different scopes, but that would probably be professionals, and i expected this to be rare. I mean, once you got one of those expensive scopes, is there really anything you couldn't do with them ?
The combination of 9µV RMS noise floor and 16 bit depth in the picoscope 4262 is pretty special. I don't think a very high end scope could do the same sorts of things because high end scopes tend to emphasize speed. The 4262 has 5MHz bandwidth, lol.
I looked around a long time for any sort of instrument that could do spectrum analysis at low frequency with a low noise floor and wide dynamic range. They don't make spectrum analyzers like that anymore; everything is specified at 9kHz and up with 50Ω inputs. So while I got this as a second, "special" scope, I really mostly use it as a spectrum analyzer in FFT mode. And maybe that kind of proves your point, if you were thinking about time domain type applications for a scope.
Yep.
That is why I also bought 4262. Nothing else like it for low frequencies.
Hello,
I wonder if you can get close to a Picoscope 4262 with an SDS3000X HD with ERES and filter?
Best regards
egonotto
You can't. You can get better than most 12 bit scopes, but you cannot cheat physics and math..
Both Performa and myself published some measurements before...
EDIT:
on 1ms/div:
2000xHD with ERES3 I can get 20uV Stdev. noise floor
6000 H12 with ERES 4 I can get 25uV Stdev.
-
The combination of 9µV RMS noise floor and 16 bit depth in the picoscope 4262 is pretty special. I don't think a very high end scope could do the same sorts of things because high end scopes tend to emphasize speed. The 4262 has 5MHz bandwidth, lol.
Well, clearly a very very special case !
(this "sounds" like you're dealing with sound-type frequencies, aren't you ?)
-
Since it will still take a while with my 3000X HD, I took a look at the options at Batronix...
I have only just realized that, unlike the 2000X HD, the 3000 does not have an integrated frequency generator... ;D
So it's clear which license I don't need. 8)
All others are within the usual range, except for one license, the PA...
SDS1000HD-PA 355,81€
SDS2000HD-PA 402,22€
SDS3000HD-PA 1010,31€ :scared:
Question to the siglent specialists: Why ?!
Does the PA on the 3000X HD have more functions?
As I said, the others are reasonably priced, with the exception of the upgrade from 350Mhz to 1Ghz, which will be out of reach for me at just over 4000€.
-
(this "sounds" like you're dealing with sound-type frequencies, aren't you ?)
Hahaha, well done. Yes, sound type frequencies and a bit higher. Latest project is signal chain for the feedback signals in a power converter. It's interesting that a lot of feedback control systems run with sound type frequencies. I've occasionally had the thought to hook headphones up to these signals and listen to what happens in various operating conditions (startup, load step, etc.), but I've never done it.
-
Hello,
I must apologize to 2N3055 and slugrustle.
The Picoscope 4262 used to have a demo board function. That was before May 2016.
There were sometimes spikes in the triangle waveform. Good for learning advanced trigger.
But after my careless and hasty report, this useful function was removed. I am sorry.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Since it will still take a while with my 3000X HD, I took a look at the options at Batronix...
I have only just realized that, unlike the 2000X HD, the 3000 does not have an integrated frequency generator... ;D
So it's clear which license I don't need. 8)
All others are within the usual range, except for one license, the PA...
SDS1000HD-PA 355,81€
SDS2000HD-PA 402,22€
SDS3000HD-PA 1010,31€ :scared:
Question to the siglent specialists: Why ?!
Does the PA on the 3000X HD have more functions?
As I said, the others are reasonably priced, with the exception of the upgrade from 350Mhz to 1Ghz, which will be out of reach for me at just over 4000€.
I was expecting that you would hack this thing and unlock it all for free?
-
Hello,
In my opinion, a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M54tCjK28xc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M54tCjK28xc)) from Batterfly.com contains misleading information about the sampling rate of the SDS3000X HD.
One picture shows a comparison of the SDS1000X HD and SDS3000X HD. There the SDS1000X HD is specified with 2 GSa/s and the SDS3000X HD with 4 GSa/s.
The SDS3000X HD should be specified as 2 * 4 GSa/s.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
In my opinion, a video from Batterfly.com contains misleading information about the sampling rate of the SDS3000X HD.
One picture shows a comparison of the SDS1000X HD and SDS3000X HD. There the SDS1000X HD is specified with 2 GSa/s and the SDS3000X HD with 4 GSa/s.
The SDS3000X HD should be specified as 2 * 4 GSa/s.
Best regards
egonotto
You are correct, it has 2x 4GS/s ADC. But they speak about sampling rate in general, so they said it that way. It can also be misunderstood that it has 4x4GS/s ADC ... ^-^
It would be prefered to be more clear, I agree.. But that is only trailer video.. Datasheet is for details anyways..
-
The SDS3000X HD should be specified as 2 * 4 GSa/s.
SDS10004X-E = 2x 1 GSa/s
SDS2000X Plus, 2000X HD = 2x 2 GSa/s
SDS5000X = 2x 5 GSa/s
Note also each ADC has its own stated memory support.....totalling 2x what is specified for the model.
-
I would also challenge the "100 MPts/ch" and "400 MPts/ch" claim around 0:19 in the video. That's the total storage capacity for all channels combined, right?
And is the Bode plot around the 1:00 minute mark real time?! Showing that process accelerated would feel a bit like cheating.
2s later it's shown real time......there's a lot squeezed into a 2 minute vid.
Defpom spent a hour on my SDS814X HD and didn't get into the real nitty gritty of what it can do.
-
Note also each ADC has its own stated memory support.....totalling 2x what is specified for the model.
Hello,
This is different with the SDS3000X HD than with the SDS2000X HD, for example. The 400 MSa is the entire memory. In contrast, the SDS2000X HD has 2 * 200 MSa and the SDS3000X HD has 1 * 400 MSa.
Best regards
egonotto
-
I would also challenge the "100 MPts/ch" and "400 MPts/ch" claim around 0:19 in the video. That's the total storage capacity for all channels combined, right?
It is not a "claim". Nothing to "challenge".
SDS3000xHD supports 400MPts/200MPts/100MPts in 1/2/3(4) channels combination.
As I said that is short "trailer" video.. Not detailed, 2 hour documentary on the scope.
Read datasheet for details...
-
Do you want to buy a 3000X HD now? ;)
-
The SDS3000X HD should be specified as 2 * 4 GSa/s.
SDS10004X-E = 2x 1 GSa/s
SDS2000X Plus, 2000X HD = 2x 2 GSa/s
SDS5000X = 2x 5 GSa/s
Note also each ADC has its own stated memory support.....totalling 2x what is specified for the model.
Hello,
the datasheet of the SDS3000X HD clearly states that there are a total of 400 MSa. But perhaps there is a mistake in the data sheet and it is 2 * 400 MSa.
The error could come from the SDS800X HD and SDS1000X HD.
I think the probability of such an error is very small, but I would be happy if the SDS3000X HD had 2 * 400 MSa.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: The datasheet of the R&S MXO4 or MXO5 had a much greater error (4 TSa segmented memory)
-
the datasheet of the SDS3000X HD clearly states that there are a total of 400 MSa. But perhaps there is a mistake in the data sheet and it is 2 * 400 MSa.
Actually the spec description has changed for the better IMO and is less likely to cause confusion.
From the datasheet:
Memory depth (Max.)
400 Mpts/ch (interleaving mode: single-channel), 200 Mpts/ch (interleaving mode: dual-channel), 100 Mpts/ch (non-interleaving mode)
3 modes; single channel, dual channel (1 on each ADC) and all channels active, dividing down the total 400 Mpts available.
-
It is not a "claim". Nothing to "challenge".
SDS3000xHD supports 400MPts/200MPts/100MPts in 1/2/3(4) channels combination.
Come on. It must be possible to point out a stupid mistake Siglent made without several White Knights coming to their rescue on this forum. The "/ch" means "per channel". It is not "400 MPts/ch" if that applies only to a single channel. Just leave out the "/ch" bit and it's a correct statement.
Free beer for our grand opening -- one pint per person!
(*) Only applies for a single person.
Who are we kidding?
What didn't you understand?
That is a quick video to introduce the fact that 2 new scopes exist..
Not a 2 hour documentary that discusses details..
You are nitpicking.
Are you going to throw tantrums every time anyone does not explain everything in details?
I refuse to speak with you anymore until you provide detailed CV and a treatise on effect of quantum entanglements on orbit of Jupiter .... :-DD
Joking. Just for clarification.
-
The SDS3000X HD should be specified as 2 * 4 GSa/s.
SDS10004X-E = 2x 1 GSa/s
SDS2000X Plus, 2000X HD = 2x 2 GSa/s
SDS5000X = 2x 5 GSa/s
Note also each ADC has its own stated memory support.....totalling 2x what is specified for the model.
Hello,
the datasheet of the SDS3000X HD clearly states that there are a total of 400 MSa. But perhaps there is a mistake in the data sheet and it is 2 * 400 MSa.
The error could come from the SDS800X HD and SDS1000X HD.
I think the probability of such an error is very small, but I would be happy if the SDS3000X HD had 2 * 400 MSa.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: The datasheet of the R&S MXO4 or MXO5 had a much greater error (4 TSa segmented memory)
That is not a mistake. 400/200/100MPts.
Not that that is small, mind you.
Keysight 3000A/T/G 4000A/G have "large memory" of total 2x4MPts 4x2MPts (an that halved in run and halved again when MSO is active. so worst case 512kpts)
-
I was expecting that you would hack this thing and unlock it all for free?
The Scope costs just over €4000 and has the following options:
SDS3000HD-16LA 474,81€
SDS3000HD-FG 355,81€
SDS3000HD-PA 1010,31€
SDS3000HD-1553B 391,51€
SDS3000HD-CANFD 391,51€
SDS3000HD-FlexRay 391,51€
SDS3000HD-I2S 391,51€
SDS3000HD-Manch 391,51€
SDS3000HD-SENT 391,51€
SDS3000HD-ARINC 677,11€
Do you need them all?
If I look at the list now, then just 2 options would currently be interesting and useful for me.
And now, hand on heart, who feels the same way? ;)
-
Hello,
I still think the probability of such a "memory" error is very small, but the manual on page 63 says so:
"Under the full Memory Depth, SDS3000X HD can still operate at full speed sampling at
timebases <= 10 ms/div which provides high resolution captures for long time duration events."
If you use ch1 and ch3 with 200 MSa then you get only 2 GSa/s.
So there is definitely a mistake in the user manual. I just hope that the above sentence is correct. But as I said, it's a very small hope. A spark of hope.
Best regards
egonotto
-
I'm not asking for an extra chapter in the video. At 00:19, simply don't write in big fat letters "400 MPts/ch", but write in equally fat letters "400 MPts". How would this make the 2-minute video any longer or more difficult to grasp?
Why such a fuss? Why can't you interpret that "ch" as the divider of the MPts? So, you'll get in a specific channel the 400 MPts divided by the number of active channels.
The "stupid mistake" would be much bigger if you just said "400 MPts" in fat letters because that would imply that you would ALWAYS have 400 MPts in any circunstance.
-
Hello,
in the video from Batterfly.com is at time 0:19
Memory Depth 100 Mpts/ch and 400 Mpts/ch.
I think ebastler rightly criticizes this.
The data sheet of the SDS7000X HD shows the standard: 500 Mpts/ch. Would you be satisfied if you bought an SDS7000X HD and only got 125 Mpts with four channels?
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
in the video from Batterfly.com is at time 0:19
Memory Depth 100 Mpts/ch and 400 Mpts/ch.
I think ebastler rightly criticizes this.
The data sheet of the SDS7000X HD shows the standard: 500 Mpts/ch. Would you be satisfied if you bought an SDS7000X HD and only got 125 Mpts with four channels?
Best regards
egonotto
I understand, but would you be happier if it said just 500 MPts and you got the same 125 with 4 channels? ;)
It's a matter of convention. Both ways are not very clear. As such, the matter doesn't deserve so much fuss. O&O
-
I'm not asking for an extra chapter in the video. At 00:19, simply don't write in big fat letters "400 MPts/ch", but write in equally fat letters "400 MPts". How would this make the 2-minute video any longer or more difficult to grasp?
It's not the end of the world and does not devalue the scope, but it is a factual error in that video. I don't get it why you can't simply say "Oops, indeed, they got that wrong", but have to come to Siglent's defense. It is not the first time. And it is a reflex which I just don't get in a user who otherwise makes many valuable and well-reasoned contributions.
No you are correct, they could have done that. But I didn't notice it, because it is not as important as you portray it to be.. It is one of those quick commercials that are there to make you notice there is a new product.
Not really important.
You are being annoyingly pedantic.
It is not the first time.
I do tend to be annoyed by that. Wasting our time with insignificant details like that.
Sorry, I'm not perfect.
Buhuhu, there is a missing comma on page 132 of user manual.. not very professional product...
Real company does not make such mistakes.
Real companies with real pedigree make a scope that has Zone button on front panel that does not work because scope was released without Zone triggering although it say it has it. Right there, on front panel, the button. Real companies release USB2.0 decoder and starts selling it just to be warned by customers that i doesn't work. And then company realizes that scope doesn't have necessary hardware on board. Nobody even tested if it works aparently. etc..etc..
Yeah but a single number stated in unclear manner in a blip 30 second video is a big problem you are capable to write about for hours.
Yeah, I'm the problem..
-
Hello,
I still think the probability of such a "memory" error is very small, but the manual on page 63 says so:
"Under the full Memory Depth, SDS3000X HD can still operate at full speed sampling at
timebases <= 10 ms/div which provides high resolution captures for long time duration events."
If you use ch1 and ch3 with 200 MSa then you get only 2 GSa/s.
So there is definitely a mistake in the user manual. I just hope that the above sentence is correct. But as I said, it's a very small hope. A spark of hope.
Best regards
egonotto
Then that version of manual is wrong aparently. It will have to be corrected.
Definitely 2x4GS/s ADC.
1 ADC per pair of channels 1-2 and 3-4.
Any single CH or CH1 and CH3 or CH2 and CH4 still 4GS/s. It drops to 2GS/s with any other combination.
Memory 400/200/100MPts per channel for 1/2/ 3 or 4 ch.
That is how it is.
Mind you, 100MPts is a lot.
Not to forget MSO also has 100Mpts and samples at 1GS/s..
-
Hello,
You're right, there are bad mistakes and insignificant mistakes. The Mpts/ch error is insignificant here, because everyone here knows how it really is. Whether the SDS3000X HD 400 Mpts is an error and it is actually 2 * 400 Mpts is a significant error for me, because I have ordered an SDS3000X HD and would be very happy if it had 2 * 400 Mpts. Unfortunately, however, I think this is unlikely. But as our Secretary of State said, you can have a ham of hope.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
You're right, there are bad mistakes and insignificant mistakes. The Mpts/ch error is insignificant here, because everyone here knows how it really is. Whether the SDS3000X HD 400 Mpts is an error and it is actually 2 * 400 Mpts is a significant error for me, because I have ordered an SDS3000X HD and would be very happy if it had 2 * 400 Mpts. Unfortunately, however, I think this is unlikely. But as our Secretary of State said, you can have a ham of hope.
Best regards
egonotto
No place for hope here, sorry. I gave you hard numbers. Those are correct.
-
Hello,
what I don't know is what the situation is with the SDS3000X HD or SDS2000X HD with the total segmented memory. Some devices have more memory available with segmented memory. How much segmented memory is available on the SDS2000X HD?
Best regards
egonotto
-
Mind you, 100MPts is a lot.
At least 100Mpt...
Our Lecroy, which is 5 times more expensive, has a maximum of 50Mpt (1Ch) and to date we have not experienced one situation in practice where this would have been too little.
I remember how freaked out we were a few years ago when we tested a scope with a total of 25Mpts for the first time... ;)
Now 400Mpts and in the "worst case" 100....
It's a strange hype about memory capability at the moment.
-
I was expecting that you would hack this thing and unlock it all for free?
The Scope costs just over €4000 and has the following options:
SDS3000HD-16LA 474,81€
SDS3000HD-FG 355,81€
SDS3000HD-PA 1010,31€
SDS3000HD-1553B 391,51€
SDS3000HD-CANFD 391,51€
SDS3000HD-FlexRay 391,51€
SDS3000HD-I2S 391,51€
SDS3000HD-Manch 391,51€
SDS3000HD-SENT 391,51€
SDS3000HD-ARINC 677,11€
Do you need them all?
If I look at the list now, then just 2 options would currently be interesting and useful for me.
And now, hand on heart, who feels the same way? ;)
I would need a bandwidth upgrade, otherwise it is a downgrade from my current SDS2000HD 500 MHz. Also the logic analyzer and i2s. Anything else is not something I have ever used. But I like to see it in my options list anyway 8)
The thing is for hobby use you never know what you will be doing. Who knows, one day I might get my hands on something that uses one of those protocols and think it fun to try it out. I would neither want to pay a lot for some fun nor wait to get the feature.
For professional use it might be different and you might know exactly what purpose the scope needs to fulfill.
-
Hello,
what I don't know is what the situation is with the SDS3000X HD or SDS2000X HD with the total segmented memory. Some devices have more memory available with segmented memory. How much segmented memory is available on the SDS2000X HD?
Best regards
egonotto
I don't know of top of my head. It would need to be measured. For SDS2000xHD there is data, but I don't have it at hand. I remember it was much more than than simply what is available to channels directly.
I will see if I can find it..
EDIT:
I tried now and on 2000xHD it is pretty much about 400Mpts total in segmented mode. 100MPts per channel. Like in normal mode.
I got it confused with 6000. It has something like 750Mpts in segment mode with all 4 ch and 600MPts in normal mode.
-
@baldurn:
I don't know when I might need it, so I want it for free instead of buying it.
Interesting point of view. ;)
Who knows, one day I might get my hands on something that uses one of those protocols and think it fun to try it out. I would neither want to pay a lot for some fun nor wait to get the feature.
No problem on a siglent - Therefore you can use all options for a limited time and 30days should be more than enough to try it out.
And the good thing is:
Time only runs out the moment you use it.
Used today, one day gone.
Use it again in 2 months, one day gone.
Not like with Lecroy:
I can request trial licenses, they are also valid for 30 days - But the time runs out the moment you install them on the scope. :P
-
@baldurn:
I don't know when I might need it, so I want it for free instead of buying it.
Interesting point of view. ;)
That is not a fair take of what I said.
Who knows, one day I might get my hands on something that uses one of those protocols and think it fun to try it out. I would neither want to pay a lot for some fun nor wait to get the feature.
No problem on a siglent - Therefore you can use all options for a limited time and 30days should be more than enough to try it out.
And the good thing is:
Time only runs out the moment you use it.
Used today, one day gone.
Use it again in 2 months, one day gone.
Not like with Lecroy:
I can request trial licenses, they are also valid for 30 days - But the time runs out the moment you install them on the scope. :P
Yes that is indeed a nice policy from Siglent.
Still I won't be upgrading from my SDS2000X HD. It is not about getting something for free, but simply that it is not worth it. Would I take it if it was for free? Yes of course. Because then it might be worth it.
I suspect a friend here could unlock the SDS3000X HD the same as the SDS2000X HD. But I still won't bother or take the risk. All I see is the possibility of getting 1 GHz instead of 500 MHz. I like experimenting with HAM and building my own transceiver etc. Either I am going to accepting working with RF is something for my SSA3000X-R, which goes up to 7.5 GHZ. Or 1 GHz would not be enough and I had to go completely crazy. 1 GHz is also not enough for some of the digital busses that I am curious about. In my opinion the upgrade would not actually enable me to do more than what I have today.
If my SDS2000X HD got stolen, I would probably go the other way and get the SDS1000X HD and unlock it with the public keygen.
-
It's not a worthwhile upgrade if what you have meets your needs. Did you "improve" your 2K HD?
-
It's not a worthwhile upgrade if what you have meets your needs. Did you "improve" your 2K HD?
Yes I had it unlocked. But I made sure I would also be happy with it if I failed to unlock it. I think it was(is) a fantastic scope. Now we also have the lower end models, which are also fantastic. Therefore there is less need for some of us to spend quite as much.
Being a pure hobby for me at this point, my needs are somewhat flexible. I have ideas for stuff that would require more than what my scope can do. But since I can't afford it, I will either not do these projects or find ways around it. I could afford 3k HD, provided I could unlock the bandwidth for free, but it just wouldn't be enough for what I have in mind.
-
Yeah, I hear that. My 2KX+ is more than I need, but I wouldn't be sad if I had a 3K HD.
-
Hello,
I wonder if you can get close to a Picoscope 4262 with an SDS3000X HD with ERES and filter?
Best regards
egonotto
You can't. You can get better than most 12 bit scopes, but you cannot cheat physics and math..
Both Performa and myself published some measurements before...
EDIT:
on 1ms/div:
2000xHD with ERES3 I can get 20uV Stdev. noise floor
6000 H12 with ERES 4 I can get 25uV Stdev.
Hello,
I try with Rigol DHO1074. It is not that far away.
Best regards
egonotto
-
There are slightly different architectures:
1) Each ADC has its own dedicated sample memory. There is usually one ADC per channel pair, hence we get two ADCs and twice the memory on 4 channel instruments. This concept has been used on SDS1000X, SDS1000X-E, SDS2000X (Plus, HD), SDS2000X-E and SDS5000X.
2) There are multiple ADCs, yet just a single shared memory for all channels. Examples for this are SDS3000X HD (2 ADCs, 400 Mpts total) and SDS6000A / SDS6204 H12 Pro (4 ADCs, 500 Mpts total).
3) As 2), but the sample max. rate is shared between all channels as well, as we can see in the new SDS800/1000X HD (2 ADCs, 50/100 Mpts total, 2 GSa/s total).
The maximum memory (= max. record length) can be a somewhat confusing specification, because it only really makes sense together with the specification of the max. sample rate.
In most cases, we are very aware of the bandwidth of our scope, and what we really want to know is how long can we capture at full sample rate, in other words: how slow a time base we can choose without losing any detail.
If we have a DSO with a maximum of just 100 MSa/s (which limits the real-time bandwidth to <40 MHz), then 1 Mpts of memory allows us to capture as slow as 1 ms/div (for a total record length of 10 ms) while still keeping the initial (maximum) sample rate.
On a DSO with max. 4 GSa/s, we need 40 Mpts of memory for the same capture length – but now >1 GHz real-time bandwidth would be possible.
We could say that e.g. in dual-channel mode, the 250 Mpts on a 2 GHz SDS6204 are actually much less deep a memory than the 200 Mpts we can get on the SDS2000X (Plus or HD). Because the latter allows us to capture a 100 ms long record at 10 ms/div and full sample rate of 2 GSa/s, whereas the SDS6000 limits us to just 50 ms record length at 5 ms/div and 5 GSa/s.
what I don't know is what the situation is with the SDS3000X HD or SDS2000X HD with the total segmented memory. Some devices have more memory available with segmented memory. How much segmented memory is available on the SDS2000X HD?
On the SDS2000X HD, there is no difference between max. record length and max. segmented memory.
Only the SDS1000X-E with its comparably short max. record length (14 Mpts per ADC) had significantly more segmented memory (up to 56 Mpts per ADC). Other instruments might have slightly more, such as the SDS824X HD, which can use up to 118 Mpts segmented memory, even though the max. record length is limited to 100 Mpts.
EDIT: Shared memory and sample rate models added.
-
I could afford 3k HD, provided I could unlock the bandwidth for free, but it just wouldn't be enough for what I have in mind.
:-+ Usually people that can afford have a more pragmatic view. Those that cannot afford are the ones that are always trying to upgrade the model just because. Human nature... :-//
-
Hello,
Thanks Performa01 for the explanations.
What I don't understand is the following: Doesn't Siglent use double buffers in run mode? If so, why is this extra memory not used in segmented mode?
Best regards
egonotto
-
on 1ms/div:
2000xHD with ERES3 I can get 20uV Stdev. noise floor
6000 H12 with ERES 4 I can get 25uV Stdev.
A call for Bin-Files as new Siglent HD-Models:
I am very interested to get a BIN file of full possible sample size as may 100M or 200M or even more as like to see the 1/f noise or spurs.
As from all new 800 HD, 1000 HD, 2000 HD, 6000 HD & 7000A HD models
May with the following settings:
- Input shorted as as for a) 50E or b) 1M
- May the ERES to consider, currently to look at full BW of the DSO
- Lowest Y division as 1mV or 500uV
- As on my SDS2k + (10 bits), requires to set the time divisions may in the 2..5ms range,
anyway the time division icon will display current sample size
- save it as BIN file and zip it please
and lets attached.... :-+
Hp
-
on 1ms/div:
2000xHD with ERES3 I can get 20uV Stdev. noise floor
6000 H12 with ERES 4 I can get 25uV Stdev.
A call for Bin-Files as new Siglent HD-Models:
I am very interested to get a BIN file of full possible sample size as may 100M or 200M or even more as like to see the 1/f noise or spurs.
As from all new 800 HD, 1000 HD, 2000 HD, 6000 HD & 7000A HD models
May with the following settings:
- Input shorted as as for a) 50E or b) 1M
- May the ERES to consider, currently to look at full BW of the DSO
- Lowest Y division as 1mV or 500uV
- As on my SDS2k + (10 bits), requires to set the time divisions may in the 2..5ms range,
anyway the time division icon will display current sample size
- save it as BIN file and zip it please
and lets attached.... :-+
Hp
I would suggest you create separate topic on this. This one is already too convoluted.
Also this forum has restrictions to attachment sizes.
Make a new topic on this and provide link to some Google drive or something to dump data and I migh help a bit with some data when time permits....
-
I think I found another "error" on the Batronix site regarding the new siglent scopes.
The SAG1021I module is described as a 25Mhz generator, the licenses for the 800X HD and 1000X HD are also described as 25Mhz generators in conjunction with the corresponding license.
The 3000X HD, however, is described as 50Mhz, despite the same hardware.
-
I think I found another "error" on the Batronix site regarding the new siglent scopes.
The SAG1021I module is described as a 25Mhz generator, the 800X HD and 1000X HD are also described as 25Mhz generators in conjunction with the corresponding license.
The 3000X HD, however, is described as 50Mhz, despite the same hardware.
Spotted that too on first look at 3000X HD info.
Cool I thought if SAG1021I can be convinced to run that fast as it creates interest what can be done via improvements.....
-
Wait a minute...
https://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/sag1021i/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/sag1021i/)
....the frequency depends on the frequency defined by the oscilloscope FG option.
Aha...
So the FG license for the 3000X HD "allows" 50Mhz instead of 25Mhz.
No error from batronix, except the description of the SAG1021i where the hint is missing.
-
Wait a minute...
https://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/sag1021i/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/sag1021i/)
....the frequency depends on the frequency defined by the oscilloscope FG option.
Aha...
This is what I wanted to say..
On SDS7000A that module (built in but same hardware) is also specified to 50MHz.
But and it is possible, with 125MS/s sample rate.
All other specifications are same.
So 50 MHz sine is right. And useful for Bode plots.
-
Yep, it´s an error in the description of the SAG module on the batronix site.
-
Well there is an interesting symmetry to that, then:
People who collect "improved" options for the sake of collecting are much less likely to actually use them. They do nothing except make the decoder list longer and give a warm fuzzy feeling when looking at the installed options. It also is not really a loss for siglent, because they would not have bought them anyway.
I have a SDS5000X with the promo pack and some choice options. Last month, i experimented with the rc5 bus on my CD player. Would I have done that project if I did not have the option per chance? Hell no. But as it was, i had a fun evening with friends finding out what the remote control does. Having more options than you strictly need sparks creativity, even if it is only for fun.
I would say let people have their fun - as long as these options are not misrepresented (or better, deleted) when the device is sold again.
-
I would suggest you create separate topic on this. This one is already too convoluted.
Also this forum has restrictions to attachment sizes.
Make a new topic on this and provide link to some Google drive or something to dump data and I migh help a bit with some data when time permits....
What I did for now at https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-call-for-bin-files-as-for-new-siglent-hd-models/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-call-for-bin-files-as-for-new-siglent-hd-models/)
-
....the frequency depends on the frequency defined by the oscilloscope FG option.
That is interesting - then what about using the device with a PC, without an oscilloscope? Does it stay 50MHz after connecting it to a higher end scope once, or is it only 50MHz while connected?
-
....the frequency depends on the frequency defined by the oscilloscope FG option.
That is interesting - then what about using the device with a PC, without an oscilloscope? Does it stay 50MHz after connecting it to a higher end scope once, or is it only 50MHz while connected?
Only SDS3000X HD and SDS7000A provides for SAG1021I 50 MHz capability it seems.
The DSO UI controls it when used as a AWG and the DSO Bode plot feature controls it from within the BP menu.
I can't be used with other that Siglent DSO's that support it.
-
....the frequency depends on the frequency defined by the oscilloscope FG option.
That is interesting - then what about using the device with a PC, without an oscilloscope? Does it stay 50MHz after connecting it to a higher end scope once, or is it only 50MHz while connected?
It would be quite interesting sniffing the protocol. An isolated 2 channel, 50MHz, PC-based AWG with a small form factor for €140 might be useful.
-
An isolated 2 channel, 50MHz, PC-based AWG with a small form factor for €140 might be useful.
SAG1021I is single channel.
-
An isolated 2 channel, 50MHz, PC-based AWG with a small form factor for €140 might be useful.
SAG1021I is single channel.
Right, my bad. I just saw the 2 BNCs and assumed 2 channels. Don't know then if it would be that good of a deal. It would be interesting nevertheless, but having two channels is really too useful.
-
Men and their toys...
I feel 40 years younger right now, waiting for Christmas...in March.
To get used to the color of my future scope, I put our Wavesurfer on the table and have been working with it ever since. 8)
-
And what do you think of the updated but still a few yrs old SDS3000X the west only sees as LeCroy badged ?
-
Men and their toys...
I feel 40 years younger right now, waiting for Christmas...in March.
To get used to the color of my future scope, I put our Wavesurfer on the table and have been working with it ever since. 8)
Hello,
You can not only get used to the color, but also to the 4 GS/s.
I'm afraid I'm even more unreasonable, but I don't want to elaborate just yet.
Best regards
egonotto
-
And what do you think of the updated but still a few yrs old SDS3000X the west only sees as LeCroy badged ?
Before we got the Z model, we had the non-Z version here, also with 200Mhz.
It was terribly slow and had two "killer bugs", which were never fixed until the 3024Z was returned to Lecroy.
This version is significantly faster than the first, but I have to say that the SDS2000Xplus was already on a par with the WS3000Z.
The 2000X HD was clearly superior in all respects and I think the 3000X HD will be even more superior.
The main reason is probably the MAUI.
The Lecroy runs Windows CE, which, together with the MAUI, is hard on the hardware.
MAUI is brilliant in itself, for me it's the best UI, but it's excellent when there's enough horsepower, like on our Waverunner 9000 or the HDO6000B.
I wouldn't buy a WS3000 privately, it can't stand up to Siglent.
The Z version is significantly faster, but overall it is very hard on the edge, you notice it in almost every situation.
The quality of workmanship, on the other hand, is excellent.
The features are fewer than on the Siglents.
We bought it at the time to be able to continue using our Pro-Bus current clamps.
I always prefer an SDS2104Xplus to the WS3024Z for everyday use.
The situation is of course different with the Waverunner and HDO.
-
I'm afraid I'm even more unreasonable, but I don't want to elaborate just yet
Aha..?! ;D
-
First saw SDS3000 when visiting HQ in 2014 and at that time it was leading edge however a quick play with it revealed it was for China market only as only China UI when in Siglent colors.
Had a pic snapped with it when I was there, posted here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent_s-new-products-sds3000-series-oscilloscopes/msg558936/#msg558936 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent_s-new-products-sds3000-series-oscilloscopes/msg558936/#msg558936)
-
Gosh, already ten years ago...Time is running.
What brought me back to Siglent (I had the SDS1104X-E as my first Siglent scope, then came the RigolMSO5000) was the SDS2000Xplus.
At that time I had only been working with Lecroy scopes for almost 17 years and immediately felt "at home" with the SDS2000Xplus.
Everything that was realized there had a solid foundation and I began to like siglent's style.
The effort to give even the cheapest model a certain professionalism, previously unknown from "B" brands.
Today I have an inkling of what their goal will be, so I appreciate all the more their efforts to continue to offer devices that everyone can afford.
What I like less is their conservatism.
Even the latest models still don't have a screen connection, and I would have liked a higher-resolution screen, at least on the 3000X HD.
But these are small things.
-
Gosh, already ten years ago...Time is running.
It is however plans are afoot for another visit to HQ later this year.
What I like less is their conservatism.
Even the latest models still don't have a screen connection, and I would have liked a higher-resolution screen, at least on the 3000X HD.
But these are small things.
Understood however every serious bench also has a PC, so with Siglent's good webservers porting the display to your PC monitor/s is so simple I quite understand why Siglent has deleted video connections from all but their high end models despite them having larger displays.
Even projection is not an insurmountable task, however you would require at least a laptop with a video Out to connect to the projector.
-
Understood however every serious bench also has a PC, so with Siglent's good webservers porting the display to your PC monitor/s is so simple I quite understand why Siglent has deleted video connections from all but their high end models despite them having larger displays.
But it would be even simpler to be able to connect a monitor/projector directly. ;)
That can't be rocket science when even Rigol offers this with its cheap models.
That's why I think it's an amusing quirk of Siglent, a quirk because it's not super important but would be nice to have, but Siglent obviously sees it as a feature of their Pro range.
-
Understood however every serious bench also has a PC, so with Siglent's good webservers porting the display to your PC monitor/s is so simple I quite understand why Siglent has deleted video connections from all but their high end models despite them having larger displays.
But it would be even simpler to be able to connect a monitor/projector directly. ;)
That can't be rocket science when even Rigol offers this with its cheap models.
That's why I think it's an amusing quirk of Siglent, a quirk because it's not super important but would be nice to have, but Siglent obviously sees it as a feature of their Pro range.
I see 2 sides....
Yet dollars saved with not having Vid Out in low cost models benefits customers with small budgets.
One needs also consider that using a PC instead of just a dumb monitor allows for remote mouse use of the scope via the interactive webserver.
-
I'm afraid I'm even more unreasonable, but I don't want to elaborate just yet
Aha..?! ;D
Hello,
I ordered a Micsig MHO3-2504.
Best regards
egonotto
-
I see 2 sides....
Yet dollars saved with not having Vid Out in low cost models benefits customers with small budgets.
One needs also consider that using a PC instead of just a dumb monitor allows for remote mouse use of the scope via the interactive webserver.
1) On the one hand, I would no longer consider a SDS3034X HD with 4000€ as low budget, where the lack of a video output was due to the cost. ;)
Secondly, other manufacturers show that it is obviously no problem to install an hdmi output in cheap scopes.
2) Yes, the web server has its undisputed advantages, but other scopes have BOTH.
As I said, I don't need a video output, but I find it amusing how desperately siglent insists on only installing them in their really expensive models. 8)
-
Speaking of expensive...
I'll take a Wavesurfer 3034Z for comparison with the SDS3034X HD.
Take a look at the data of the Lecroy:
https://www.teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/wavesurfer-3000z-oscilloscopes/wavesurfer-3034z (https://www.teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/wavesurfer-3000z-oscilloscopes/wavesurfer-3034z)
The price: 10000€.... :scared:
Trusting another brand would be more than worthwhile here, which is why I have now bought Siglent current clamps for work so that we are no longer so dependent on the Pro bus.
But there are two things I like about this Lecroy.
The calibration output....1khz standard, but you can adjust it from 500Hz to 1Mhz, nice.
The second is the specification of the processor system, which I would also like to see on Siglent Datasheets(edit).
Processor/CPU
Type TI AM5728 Sitara Processor
Processor Memory 2 GB
Operating System Microsoft Windows CE
Oscilloscope Operating Software Teledyne LeCroy MAUI™
-
This refers to the description in the data sheet...
-
Exactly this. :-+
-
Sorry, I must have some mental block here. You mean you don't want that processor and OS specifically, but you would like Siglent to specify in the datasheet which processor and OS they use?
Linux for all models.
-
A question of understanding:
According to the data sheet of the 3000X HD, the bandwidth of the 3104X HD is 1Ghz in interleaving mode and is reduced to 800Mhz in non-interleaving mode.
Why ?
At first I thought this was clear because of the reduced sample rate from 4 to 2GSa/s, but with the Wavesurfer WS3000Z/Siglent SDS3000X the bandwidth remains the same, despite the reduced sample rate.
-
Presumably they decided to do it right this time and design in proper anti-alias filtering? The question you should ask is why didn't the SDS3000X have this. Even 800 MHz is cutting it pretty close, especially at 12 bit.
-
I see 2 sides....
Yet dollars saved with not having Vid Out in low cost models benefits customers with small budgets.
One needs also consider that using a PC instead of just a dumb monitor allows for remote mouse use of the scope via the interactive webserver.
1) On the one hand, I would no longer consider a SDS3034X HD with 4000€ as low budget, where the lack of a video output was due to the cost. ;)
Secondly, other manufacturers show that it is obviously no problem to install an hdmi output in cheap scopes.
2) Yes, the web server has its undisputed advantages, but other scopes have BOTH.
As I said, I don't need a video output, but I find it amusing how desperately siglent insists on only installing them in their really expensive models. 8)
Exactly, I thought about getting the 3000X HD for the active probe interface and higher bandwidth. I didn't get it at the end because I feel like the screen on the 2000X HD was already a bit cramped, and there doesn't seem to be much newer or better software features beside plain bandwidth upgrade on 3000X HD. I know they have a web server on the scope for remote control, but the web server control is just so slow and unresponsive compared to the knobs or just using a mouse directly with the scope. And the web interface doesn't scale / adjust well with different browser window sizes.
I ended up just getting old Tek active probes and power supply for my active probing needs, and will probably save the money for a significantly better scope released in the future, or maybe from some other brand, if I need a scope upgrade (I don't ::) ).
-
I see 2 sides....
Yet dollars saved with not having Vid Out in low cost models benefits customers with small budgets.
One needs also consider that using a PC instead of just a dumb monitor allows for remote mouse use of the scope via the interactive webserver.
1) On the one hand, I would no longer consider a SDS3034X HD with 4000€ as low budget, where the lack of a video output was due to the cost. ;)
Secondly, other manufacturers show that it is obviously no problem to install an hdmi output in cheap scopes.
2) Yes, the web server has its undisputed advantages, but other scopes have BOTH.
As I said, I don't need a video output, but I find it amusing how desperately siglent insists on only installing them in their really expensive models. 8)
Exactly, I thought about getting the 3000X HD for the active probe interface and higher bandwidth. I didn't get it at the end because I feel like the screen on the 2000X HD was already a bit cramped, and there doesn't seem to be much newer or better software features beside plain bandwidth upgrade on 3000X HD. I know they have a web server on the scope for remote control, but the web server control is just so slow and unresponsive compared to the knobs or just using a mouse directly with the scope. And the web interface doesn't scale / adjust well with different browser window sizes.
I ended up just getting old Tek active probes and power supply for my active probing needs, and will probably save the money for a significantly better scope released in the future, or maybe from some other brand, if I need a scope upgrade (I don't ::) ).
SD3000xHD has faster processor, USB3, faster networking... there are many things it brings to the table in addition to active probes and BW.
Once you try to use it, side by side, you know the difference. There are more software features.
It also have capacity to grow. It was just released. Just remember all the additions that 2000xHD received with time.
In your case, i see it as a fact that 2000xHD is a scope that already gives so much, that as a general purpose scope it is covering most of your needs.
-
I'm afraid I'm even more unreasonable, but I don't want to elaborate just yet
Aha..?! ;D
Hello,
I ordered a Micsig MHO3-2504.
Best regards
egonotto
A perfect form factor for a laboratory oscilloscope. The display should be a pleasure to work with.
No need for HDMI port, but still the port is included 8)
I'll be very curious about your first impressions.
Everyone should own one, driven by the Siglent software ...
-
As I said, I don't need a video output, but I find it amusing how desperately siglent insists on only installing them in their really expensive models. 8)
One reason could be that such a low resolution on a large screen will look a bit unpleasant if it is not scaled up to the resolution of the monitor.
The next model should bring something new here too, but it will probably come at an extra cost.
-
Can we please stick to the relevant topic theme?
I suggest opening topic "My wet dream scope" and write fantasies there. :-DD
Topic is about what scopes in question have and not about fantasies of what will come in future...
It has display as it does, resolution as it does , it does not have external monitor connector.
Those are facts.
What will be in future? I have no clue.
But I know that "the other" scopes that have higher resolution and external monitor connector (that is, frankly, very rarely used with most of people) have inferior software quality with many bugs, and have maybe 1/3 of capability. And here I'm talking about SDS100xHD.
SDS3000xHD has no peer in it's price range from any brand. Any.
And from what I can see it is going to age very well..
-
An on topic rephrasing could be: the new SDS3000X HS and SDS1000X HD Siglent oscilloscopes are very powerful, but the 10 inch screen resolution is lagging behind. A lot ... :-//
-
Can we please stick to the relevant topic theme?
I suggest opening topic "My wet dream scope" and write fantasies there. :-DD
Topic is about what scopes in question have and not about fantasies of what will come in future...
Everyone here seems to shut down discussions. Please stop, this is a forum, made to discuss things.
Even things that you don't like.
-
Bad news..
There are delivery delays on the part of Siglent, affecting the 1000/3000X HD models.
The new date is probably the end of March.
Good news (for me it is new):
With discount code Sig7 you'll get 7% off, on all new HD models.(valid until 15.03.)
Edit : by Batterfly
-
An on topic rephrasing could be: the new SDS3000X HS and SDS1000X HD Siglent oscilloscopes are very powerful, but the 10 inch screen resolution is lagging behind. A lot ... :-//
Well than be correct and specific.
Their what parameter of 10" screen is lagging behind?
Anti glare coating?
Resolution?
Brightens?
View angle?
Color reproduction?
Dynamic response?
Readability of numeric data ?
And also what is the standard they are lagging behind:
Keysight Infiniivision scopes of 1000 series?
R&S scopes of 1000 series?
Tektronix scopes of 1000 series?
Rigol DHO1000 series?
-
Can we please stick to the relevant topic theme?
I suggest opening topic "My wet dream scope" and write fantasies there. :-DD
Topic is about what scopes in question have and not about fantasies of what will come in future...
Everyone here seems to shut down discussions. Please stop, this is a forum, made to discuss things.
Even things that you don't like.
I speak out of frustration, not censorship..
Nobody is shutting down any discussions.
Just open a different topic and discuss it there. Please?
There has been like 300 posts about this already.
Yes.We.Heard.There.Are.Some.People.That.Think.Siglent.Should.Have.Used.Higher.Resolution.Screen.On.New.10".Scopes.
Duly noted.
But if they want to discuss it further, please, please, make a new topic, and make a vote there if you like. Discuss it ad nauseam there. Please?
If anything I see that as sabotageing the actual discussion on relevant topic.
How about discussing that SDS1000xHD has 80% of analytic capabilites of 10000€ LeCroy?
And all we got so far:
- How shiny the screen is (while many happily buying 10000€ scopes with completely reflective screens)
- What is display resolution (it is 96 DPI). Rigol has more. Yes it does, but that is all it has. All else is hot mess.
- What is the handle made from and how it feels.. (that one was borrowed from SDS2000xHD topic but relevant here too)
- maybe altogether 10-20 posts on actual scope capabilities.
Are these scopes so perfectly understood by everybody that there are no questions connected to scope actual use and capabilities?
Questions like: " I need to measure this and this, can I do that?!
-
Bad news..
There are delivery delays on the part of Siglent, affecting the 1000/3000X HD models.
The new date is probably the end of March.
Good news (for me it is new):
With discount code Sig7 you'll get 7% off, on all new HD models.(valid until 15.03.)
Edit : by Batterfly
Sorry to hear about delay. Hang in there, buddy!!
-
I have the latent upgrade itch for the 3000x HD. Does anybody know whether there is or will be an introductory promo pack with most options again, like for the 5000x and 7000a?
Regarding the discussion directly above -
I do really miss some properties that i would have done different in the 3000x HD, but I do not see that being well received here, so i will take that discussion elsewhere.
-
I have the latent upgrade itch for the 3000x HD. Does anybody know whether there is or will be an introductory promo pack with most options again, like for the 5000x and 7000a?
Not at this time it seems:
https://int.siglent.com/info/promotions/
Regarding the discussion directly above -
I do really miss some properties that i would have done different in the 3000x HD, but I do not see that being well received here, so i will take that discussion elsewhere.
There's nowhere else as the thread I started for specifically SDS3000X HD was removed by moderators without trace or explanation. :-//
Report this post and ask Mods to reinstate it.
-
I speak out of frustration, not censorship..
Nobody is shutting down any discussions.
Just open a different topic and discuss it there. Please?
There has been like 300 posts about this already.
Yes.We.Heard.There.Are.Some.People.That.Think.Siglent.Should.Have.Used.Higher.Resolution.Screen.On.New.10".Scopes.
Duly noted.
But if they want to discuss it further, please, please, make a new topic, and make a vote there if you like. Discuss it ad nauseam there. Please?
If anything I see that as sabotageing the actual discussion on relevant topic.
How about discussing that SDS1000xHD has 80% of analytic capabilites of 10000€ LeCroy?
I don't get why you see this as off-topic, frankly. It must be ok to also discuss limitations of Siglent devices on a Siglent thread. It does not take away from the fact that Siglent provides excellent performance and excellent value for money.
While screen resolution has been criticized before, I see it as a relevant topic specifically for the SDS1000 and 3000X HD:
Of topic is ad nauseam discussion how screen is is.
It has been repeated 300 times already.
With no other topics being mentioned.
If one read this, it seems like scope has 32x16 pixels resolution and it is unusable.
And scope has no functions and nothing else.
"Hey dude, do you know, does it have buttons? I don't know maan, but how about that screen, maann.."
Nobody is disputing anything. But for Heavens sake, is there nothing else to talk about?
-
Nobody is disputing anything. But for Heavens sake, is there nothing else to talk about?
I guess not much yet? There is next to nothing WRT teardowns, demonstrations, reviews or anything. No Scopes were sent in advance to any reviewers, the "release" date was set a month (best case scenario) before actual availability, and people are just idly chatting, loosely on topic. It looks like a forum to me.
-
Bad news..
There are delivery delays on the part of Siglent, affecting the 1000/3000X HD models.
The new date is probably the end of March.
Good news (for me it is new):
With discount code Sig7 you'll get 7% off, on all new HD models.(valid until 15.03.)
Edit : by Batterfly
Sorry to hear this Martin, not good. :(
Let's just hope you don't get too attached to that borrowed LeCroy from work. :scared:
-
So let's take a break until the hardware is available?
Or will 2N3055 allow us?
Come on, I'm a big fan of 2N3055 transistors, I've made many power amps with them ;D
And 2N3055 is one of the valued members here :-+
But, so to speak, can we be more tolerant of each other?
We're talking about screen resolution. When we'll look inside, we'll talk about other things too.
From a software point of view, the quality seems much higher than the price might suggest. No doubt about it. But no one will think you can't see anything on the screen ...
-
So let's take a break until the hardware is available?
Or will 2N3055 allow us?
Come on, I'm a big fan of 2N3055 transistors, I've made many power amps with them ;D
And 2N3055 is one of the valued members here :-+
But, so to speak, can we be more tolerant of each other?
We're talking about screen resolution. When we'll look inside, we'll talk about other things too.
From a software point of view, the quality seems much higher than the price might suggest. No doubt about it. But no one will think you can't see anything on the screen ...
No, no, by all means, discuss away...
I'm wrong. I'm in a wrong place..
Please discuss all you want, repeat anything any time you want.. Flowers, butterflies.. Whatever.
It is not my place to try to keep it in any direction..
It is my misunderstanding of purpose of these discussions that made me confused.
There isn't any purpose. People simply chat here with no particular aim. Shooting breeze.
I apologize.
I won't bother you guys anymore.
-
So let's take a break until the hardware is available?
Or will 2N3055 allow us?
Come on, I'm a big fan of 2N3055 transistors, I've made many power amps with them ;D
And 2N3055 is one of the valued members here :-+
But, so to speak, can we be more tolerant of each other?
We're talking about screen resolution. When we'll look inside, we'll talk about other things too.
From a software point of view, the quality seems much higher than the price might suggest. No doubt about it. But no one will think you can't see anything on the screen ...
If we talk screen resolution, then we need also talk about human eye resolution.
The discrimination ability of the eye. Resolution perhaps 2 arc minutes at best. So...
Naturally we can take screen image and magnify it and so on... but in normal working .. on lab table. Really much more important thigs than counting pixels and images beauty. Much more important things... perhaps if I do not need any real work with scopes then I perhaps have time to look and think if picture is nice and beauty.
-
Can we please stick to the relevant topic theme?
I suggest opening topic "My wet dream scope" and write fantasies there. :-DD
Topic is about what scopes in question have and not about fantasies of what will come in future...
Everyone here seems to shut down discussions. Please stop, this is a forum, made to discuss things.
Even things that you don't like.
Of course, let people debate the pro / cons of a given instrument, and analyze possible shortcomings that clearly will vary from one to the next, depending on what each of us prioritizes and our use cases.
The whole purpose of a forum like this, is certainly not to inflate the books/sale on a given Chinese company by sugarcoating the less-than-ideal specs on a given instrument.
10.1" with just 600p on a modern newly released scope in this price bracket, no wonder some see that as a con.
-
I hope the SDS3000X HD has the same aluminum handle so we can have discussion about that part for the next month or so.
The complete X HD series are fookin good instruments. The screen resolution is more than good enough (Yes I got one of those and its an excellent machine). Or are you boys and girls counting pixels to see how many µV something wiggles? No you don't. And if you want, there is always the zoom tool which combined with low noise converters outperform any scope I ever had. (I paid the price of a small car for a 4CH 500 MHz TEK long ago. It's now standing there doing nothing) Those who complain about the screen resolution never had to measure anything specific I guess.
20 years ago you couldn't even buy a descent 0.01 Hz to 100 Mhz network analyzer for less than 50K without options. An old used to dead instrument could be had for nothing less than 10...20K. Today you basically get one for free. But people with no real ideas must find something which amounts to nothing to cry about.
Anyhow, back to the handle. I have a strange urge to write a page-long review about The Handle. Maybe I should make a movie about Scope Handles? Anyone interested if the resolution is high enough? But maybe I didn't take my pillz this morning.
-
If we talk screen resolution, then we need also talk about human eye resolution.
The discrimination ability of the eye. Resolution perhaps 2 arc minutes at best. So...
0.47 arc minutes (or 28 arc seconds) is the literature value, https://www.swift.ac.uk/about/files/vision.pdf (https://www.swift.ac.uk/about/files/vision.pdf). That translates to 0.08 mm at a 60 cm distance. Pixels on the Siglent 10" screen are about 0.22 mm wide, nearly three times as large.
Edit: Fiexd the link.
From the document:
Highest resolution perceivable pixels: 28 seconds of arc.
Several physical factors limit the highest spatial frequencies that can be perceived by the human eye. The diffraction limit of the pupil, the foveal cone spacing, neural trace and physiological tests all agree on a maximum perceived frequency of approximately one cycle per arcminute (half arc-minute pixels). This is under optimal (but non-vernier†) conditions, including
100% contrast. While not quite directly comparable, so-called “20/20” vision represents detecting image features twice as large.
Variable resolution: 1/2@±1°, 1/4@±2°, 1/8@±5°, 1/16@±12°
This high resolution, however, applies only to the central 2° of vision. Outside of this, the cone
spacing and measured preceptorial acuity drop off even faster than the optical limits. In most
textbooks (see [2], page 60), this drop off is plotted as a sharp cusp. However, this representation does not do justice to how small the high spatial frequency perception region of the visual
field is. Figure 1a plots an alternate visualization of this data onto the surface of a unit sphere:
which portions of the 4π steradian field of view are perceived at what resolution. There are 5
false color bands, each corresponding to a factor of two less perceptorial resolution. Figure 1b
is a zoom into the central region of the sphere. The center most green region corresponds to the
central ±1° of the fovea. The purple from there to ±2°, red to ±5°, orange to ±12°, and yellow
to the optical edge caused by the human face. The white represents the non-visible regions.
This optical edge has a complex shape, and varies both in the individual and the literature. For
our calculations, we used the data of [3], where the maximum field of view varied horizontally
from -59° to +110°, and vertically from -70° to +56°. To show both sides of this more than
180° field, two unit spheres are shown, one for a right eye and one for a symmetrically reversed
left eye
Thus if the direction of gaze is known, across the entire visual field, the human visual system
can perceive approximately only one fifteenth the visual detail that would be discernible if
foveal resolutions were available for the entire field
This discussion is equally fruitless and useless as discussion between two gamer kids about difference between 414 and 432 frames per second.
At 60cm distance (good estimate by the way) pixel is not discernible by naked eye.
Again, unlike most of people here discussing this useless bullshit, I have the scope for two years.
No, you cannot see pixels with naked eye.
-
I know they have a web server on the scope for remote control, but the web server control is just so slow and unresponsive compared to the knobs or just using a mouse directly with the scope. And the web interface doesn't scale / adjust well with different browser window sizes.
That's a weird take. I've found the web interface to be nearly real time, with no real perceptible lag. I've never had any issues with it. I think if you're experiencing lag issues, it's a network problem, not a scope problem. And I only have an SDS2504XP, which I assume is slower than the newer / higher level HD models.
-
At 60cm distance (good estimate by the way) pixel is not discernible by naked eye.
Again, unlike most of people here discussing this useless bullshit, I have the scope for two years.
No, you cannot see pixels with naked eye.
Well, I don't know about you, but I wear glasses. 🥸😉😉
-
Display.....As always, everything is relative.
Anyone who comes from something like this (picture) will be happy to look at a 1024x600 screen. 8)
-
I am curious whether there is a technical reason for Siglent's conservative choice of screen resolution, use of "straight" bitmap fonts and reluctance to include video outputs. Are they driving the LCD directly from the FPGA maybe, and not from the SOC's CPU?
That would guarantee high screen update rates and low lag. But it would also mean that HDMI output, larger frame buffers and anti-aliased fonts do not come "for free" with the SOC, but would take valuable FPGA resources which may be better used elsewhere.
Is it known, e.g. from a teardown of the SDS2000X HD, how the LCD is driven?
When the current non-touch SW platform was born in late 2015, as we still know its mature form from the SDS1000X-E today, it has been introduced in the SDS2000 back then, followed by SDS2000X, SDS1000X and SDS1000X plus if I remember correctly. All these instruments have already had the SPO technology, i.e. the very nice intensity- and color grading. But all these instruments were driven by just a single DSP (Analog Devices 400MHz Blackfin) and one or more FPGAs.
These have been 8-bit machines throughout and the screen height was 480 pixel. As a consequence, there has been a fixed mapping of two vertical screen pixel to one LSB of the sample data. Display area was limited to 400 pixels, hence 200 LSB. The rest was just headroom.
I'm pretty certain that it's not the cost of the LCD panel, which dictates the choice of screen resolution. One should consider what higher resolution means: more memory, especially for the "heat map" required for intensity grading, correspondingly more data transfer bandwidth, more processing power...
The old SDS2000X with its 8" 800 x 480 Display provided faster trigger rates than todays 2000X plus/HD series: it were up to 140 kWfm/s back then, despite the rather weak (by today's standards) Blackfin processor. That should be a dead giveaway where the main video processing is actually done...
Even Rigol have a fixed resolution for the traces, independent of the screen resolution. Yes, their rendering is nicer. Siglent rather focused on DSO functionality instead >:D
-
At 60cm distance (good estimate by the way) pixel is not discernible by naked eye.
Again, unlike most of people here discussing this useless bullshit, I have the scope for two years.
No, you cannot see pixels with naked eye.
Well, I don't know about you, but I wear glasses. 🥸😉😉
I do also, but don't clean them very often... :-DD
Jokes on the side, you can see one pixel is lit or not on black surface. You see white dot.
But you cannot see if it is one bright or two dim neighbouring pixels if you don't come closer than at hand distance. Cca 60cm.
If you can, that is fantastic, happy for you!
I was not referring to steps... There is whole screen resolution and DPI discussion ...
-
I'm pretty certain that it's not the cost of the LCD panel, which dictates the choice of screen resolution. One should consider what higher resolution means: more memory, especially for the "heat map" required for intensity grading, correspondingly more data transfer bandwidth, more processing power...
[...]
Even Rigol have a fixed resolution for the traces, independent of the screen resolution. Yes, their rendering is nicer. Siglent rather focused on DSO functionality instead >:D
The buffer used for intensity grading is almost certainly realized as block RAM inside the FPGA. Increasing the resolution either means reducing the number of levels or using a larger (more expensive) FPGA with more block RAM. You can do some tricks, like drawing single shot traces/slow timebases using the CPU. But beyond that you mostly just get what you pay for.
Rigol uses a different architecture with a dedicated application processor including a proper GPU. They get high resolution video with nice scaling (and HDMI output) basically for free. It's a different story with the Zynq 7000/Zynq US+ CG SoCs. Those do not come with any hard IP for video, anything you need you have to spend logic resources on. For what it's worth, I doubt this was a major design consideration in either case. It's just the way that things worked out.
-
I know they have a web server on the scope for remote control, but the web server control is just so slow and unresponsive compared to the knobs or just using a mouse directly with the scope. And the web interface doesn't scale / adjust well with different browser window sizes.
That's a weird take. I've found the web interface to be nearly real time, with no real perceptible lag. I've never had any issues with it. I think if you're experiencing lag issues, it's a network problem, not a scope problem. And I only have an SDS2504XP, which I assume is slower than the newer / higher level HD models.
I think you are aware that this is a thread about 3000X-HD and 1000X-HD. Maybe yor scope is capable of "nearly realtime" but I can assure you that on SDS1000X-HD at least, there is a clear difference between scope screen and what is displayed on the web interface. And no, is not about the network speed.
Well than be correct and specific.
Their what parameter of 10" screen is lagging behind?
Anti glare coating?
Resolution?
Brightens?
View angle?
Color reproduction?
Dynamic response?
Readability of numeric data ?
...
You forgot the contrast rate. This is the only thing I had seen as lower on the SDS1000X-HD. Otherwise is very good.
If you work only with it you will see no issue, but if you compare with DHO1K for ex. you will remark the difference.
About the resolution on 10" I think that is more than enough. I can barely see the pixels.
The proof is that the math traces looks very nice so the display is capable.
I think the discussions about why should be marginal. The scope is very capable through the software applications.
But peoples should see and decide for themself.
They are aware of what is important on a scope are measurement and analisys capabilities.
One should not telling them: "This is only you need to know. The rest is not important for you."
-
I know they have a web server on the scope for remote control, but the web server control is just so slow and unresponsive compared to the knobs or just using a mouse directly with the scope. And the web interface doesn't scale / adjust well with different browser window sizes.
That's a weird take. I've found the web interface to be nearly real time, with no real perceptible lag. I've never had any issues with it. I think if you're experiencing lag issues, it's a network problem, not a scope problem. And I only have an SDS2504XP, which I assume is slower than the newer / higher level HD models.
I think you are aware that this is a thread about 3000X-HD and 1000X-HD. Maybe yor scope is capable of "nearly realtime" but I can assure you that on SDS1000X-HD at least, there is a clear difference between scope screen and what is displayed on the web interface. And no, is not about the network speed.
Not seen this.
As an early adopter you may be seeing something that will not be there when western firmware updates get released.
-
I know they have a web server on the scope for remote control, but the web server control is just so slow and unresponsive compared to the knobs or just using a mouse directly with the scope. And the web interface doesn't scale / adjust well with different browser window sizes.
That's a weird take. I've found the web interface to be nearly real time, with no real perceptible lag. I've never had any issues with it. I think if you're experiencing lag issues, it's a network problem, not a scope problem. And I only have an SDS2504XP, which I assume is slower than the newer / higher level HD models.
I think you are aware that this is a thread about 3000X-HD and 1000X-HD. Maybe your scope is capable of "nearly realtime" but I can assure you that on SDS1000X-HD at least, there is a clear difference between scope screen and what is displayed on the web interface. And no, is not about the network speed.
Maybe record a small side-by-side video-segment with the traces in roll mode on your SDS1000X-HD, alongside your web-screen on this browser-based interface.
Would give an idea of both the update rate & the lag you're experiencing, so things ain't relative, as individual perception can vary a lot from one to the next - would also give other users/owners of various Siglent models (with web-control ability) the chance to relate, and if your scenario also matches their experience or if it's down to fx a given firmware on your early-day's-import unit or third-party network issues.
// An old example https://i.imgur.com/L2IxS2b.mp4 (*APK/IPA/EXE)
-
Any idea if/when the new releases will have promotions? The SDS2000X HD analysis deal is valid until 6/30 so I doubt it'd be getting any.
-
...
Not seen this.
As an early adopter you may be seeing something that will not be there when western firmware updates get released.
Isn't SDS1000X-HD already available on the western market? I am already running 1.1.3.1 Fw. version, that fixed two bugs described earlier.
Maybe record a small side-by-side video-segment with the traces in roll mode on your SDS1000X-HD, alongside your web-screen on this browser-based interface.
Would give an idea of both the update rate & the lag you're experiencing, so things ain't relative, as individual perception can vary a lot from one to the next - would also give other users/owners of various Siglent models (with web-control ability) the chance to relate, and if your scenario also matches their experience or if it's down to fx a given firmware on your early-day's-import unit or third-party network issues.
// An old example https://i.imgur.com/9K0mJxu.mp4 (*APK/IPA/EXE)
yeah clasic ...show us a movie, but whatever you show your scope is broken, or you may have network problems ... Then what for ... ?
The ideea was that one canot reply to a comment that a scope is slow witht he argument that his scope is fast while this is different(SDS2504XP). Maybe his scope is really a Nascar scope :), look at the 2000X-HD which has 4 FPGA's while the 1000X-HD do everything with a sinlge one.
P.S. The scenario with roll mode suggested by you is quite hard.(video replaced with a more focused one) - https://youtube.com/shorts/92lAS9aj12c
A more normal approach is here in free running. - https://youtu.be/OCh8_iVbInU
And you can exclude the network. I'm good at networks ...
-
Isn't SDS1000X-HD already available on the western market?
I haven't seen any in stock at any dealer yet.
-
Maybe record a small side-by-side video-segment with the traces in roll mode on your SDS1000X-HD, alongside your web-screen on this browser-based interface.
Would give an idea of both the update rate & the lag you're experiencing, so things ain't relative, as individual perception can vary a lot from one to the next - would also give other users/owners of various Siglent models (with web-control ability) the chance to relate, and if your scenario also matches their experience or if it's down to fx a given firmware on your early-day's-import unit or third-party network issues.
// An old example https://i.imgur.com/9K0mJxu.mp4 (*APK/IPA/EXE)
yeah clasic ...show us a movie, but whatever you show your scope is broken, or you may have network problems ... Then what for ... ?
The ideea was that one canot reply to a comment that a scope is slow witht he argument that his scope is fast while this is different(SDS2504XP). Maybe his scope is really a Nascar scope :), look at the 2000X-HD which has 4 FPGA's while the 1000X-HD do everything with a sinlge one.
P.S. The scenario with roll mode suggested by you is quite hard.(video replaced with a more focused one) - https://youtube.com/shorts/92lAS9aj12c
A more normal approach is here in free running. - https://youtu.be/OCh8_iVbInU
And you can exclude the network. I'm good at networks ...
Calm down, and quit the hysteric tone, Im trying to help you to get your point across,
Nobody is saying you're bad at networking, are you level..
You made a video, hurra, that will give other users an idea on what your experiencing and people with the same web interface can relate to the issues your whining about.
-
Calm down, and quit the hysteric tone, Im trying to help you to get your point across,
Nobody is saying you're bad at networking, are you level..
You made a video, hurra, that will give other users an idea on what your experiencing and people with the same web interface can relate to the issues your whining about.
You are hysteric one here ... I am just amused.
-
Calm down, and quit the hysteric tone, Im trying to help you to get your point across,
Nobody is saying you're bad at networking, are you level..
You made a video, hurra, that will give other users an idea on what your experiencing and people with the same web interface can relate to the issues your whining about.
You are hysteric one here ... I am just amused.
I doubt it, with that approach. more like a handful as you're concluding things that nobody is saying.
Where does anybody indicate that you're bad at networking.?
What exactly are trying to show with these monotone/consistent waveforms? https://youtube.com/shorts/92lAS9aj12c - https://youtu.be/OCh8_iVbInU
Wasn't it the LAG you were whining about,? hence the scenario' that what you saw on your screen, wasn't the same on the web interface and it was very far from an aspect of "real-time".
Usually down to lag, and there is a delay - and both of your videos, mostly give an idea of the update rate... hmm whatever.. lag away..I don't have either of these scopes.. but as mentioned above you can hope for an firmware update, its a very new model.
-
I doubt it, with that approach. more like a handful as you're concluding things that nobody is saying.
Where does anybody indicate that you're bad at networking.?
What exactly are trying to show with these monotone/consistent waveforms? https://youtube.com/shorts/92lAS9aj12c - https://youtu.be/OCh8_iVbInU
Wasn't it the LAG you were whining about,? hence the scenario' that what you saw on your screen, wasn't the same on the web interface and it was very far from an aspect of "real-time".
Usually down to lag, and there is a delay - and both of your videos, mostly give an idea of the update rate... hmm whatever.. lag away..I don't have either of these scopes.. but as mentioned above you can hope for an firmware update, its a very new model.
Your posts are very aggresive. I am not "whining" ...
I have done those videos at your request, even I didn't have the intention before. You intervened in the discussion and ask me. The discussion was about the lag from what you see on the scope screen and what you see on the web browser.
I've should ignore you.
-
Nobody is aggressive Skander36, but it's an offended way to reply when people trying to help you on ways to get your issue across, - then to second guess one's motives, - as the aspect of what is "realtime" in a given webOS can vary a lot from one to the next - when it's down to something as relative as an individual perception of real-time - and what each of us finds acceptable.
yeah clasic ...show us a movie, but whatever you show your scope is broken, or you may have network problems ... Then what for ... ?
..
I'm good at networks ...
I get that your first reply to me, #455, - its likely not directed at me in full, but still its a precarious offended attitude to meet other people who are trying to help you, and then second guess my motive.
It's like you feel I'm attacking you and you need to excuse yourself upfront for whatever your mind can summon of possible attacks, but there is nothing in my first posts #453 that do anything other than try to help you, visualize the issues you're experiencing, that you claim are far from what other users are indicating.
I get' that your offended attitude could be down to other clashes you have had previously, with other users, but maybe not the right approach when users are trying to help you.
As I explained in my first pots, #453 there is both lag (ms delay) and there is the update rate..
It's not the same, and both factors can be a problem when not having a "real-time" experience.
* Lag, as in the timely ms-delay from when things unfold on the screen to it is shown on your WebOS.
* Update rate, the frequency that the WebOS updates your screen content, as it can be close to useless in practise, if it is only a few times per second as we saw in the past on some models..
And you keep referring to "lag", and it ain't real-time, the data that takes place on your scope to when it enters your WebOS, but both your two videos, are with consistent waveforms, that makes it somewhat difficult to tell, what lag you're having, as there could be seconds of lag, or it could be close to instant but with no reference point it's difficult to tell, - its mostly the update rate, your video gives an idea off - but its still better then nothing and other users can relate and inform you if it matches what they are encountering.
Why I showed the old example in #453 as you can sense how far the lagging on the tablet is behind the actual scope, alongside the update rate.
In plan ms-values, its a tad under 1/3 of a sec... web-stopwatch with granular ms-details https://tinyurl.com/4vymssfp I get that approach ain't relevant on your scope, and why I showed the rolling/tail as a crude example for that timespan of lag delay https://i.imgur.com/L2IxS2b.mp4
Anyway, let's move forward, I don't have any horses in this race, don't have this scope you imported from China, but you can put up a small campfire for the future, as there is a big chance that it will be optimized five ways to Sunday, and many of these aspects that you find far from ideal, will only get better.. its very early days for SDS1000X HD.
-
Man ... free your mind ... too many unreal scenarios about me ... :)
My post was to another post where I said that some scopes can be more powerfull than others so they can have differents response time.So it's beter to compare the same scopes.(For ex. Tautech answer me that it has not seeing lag on 1000X-HD_1 which is ok).
I don't need to hope for an improvement on this issue with web interface (btw. WebOs is on operating system on LG TV's), it is my least problem. I'm glad that they have fixed other things.
P.S. "I'm good at networks" means "Trust me".
-
WebOs is on operating system on LG TV's), it is my least problem
P.S. "I'm good at networks" means "Trust me".
You're one very heavy dude..that's for sure.
https://youtu.be/Cxh_Liay09E?si=P13kmP021f_M5j3Q&t=144
-
Hello,
I hope that the SDS3000X HD will arrive before Easter 2024.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Batronix told me around March 29th - But that's already a holiday, so I think more after Easter.
But I wouldn't be sad if they were wrong. ;)
-
Hello,
I hope that the SDS3000X HD will arrive before Easter 2024.
Best regards
egonotto
I'm waiting for the little brother still, too. It's been a bit of a strange "release".
-
I'm waiting for the little brother still, too. It's been a bit of a strange "release".
"That's what she said."
-
I'm waiting for the little brother still, too. It's been a bit of a strange "release".
Not being able to meet delivery deadlines is something I know enough about, and it's no different for us (at work).
Everyone knows the bottlenecks with electronic components, so you would think that our customers would understand if the deadline is postponed.
But they don't. ;)
That's why I have a certain understanding for the current situation and am making do with the SDS804X HD for the time being. 8)
-
I understand that too, life happens. We often don't get to have more time at work, as we deal mostly with legal deadlines, but then, the job depends mostly on our own work.
It just looks to me like there should have been an SDS800 release date, and a different one for the higher-end models. A minimum of a month delay for stock (if not three, as there are quotes for may), just means the scopes are not released.
EDIT: also, there are forum members with an SDS3000X-HD already, am I wrong? Why don't we have any kind of demo if the scopes are already out?
-
I knew very early on which models would be coming onto the market and when.
And some of the warehouses were supposed to be full by the deadline, so something unexpected must have happened that prevented this from happening.
The 804 probably still "got through", but not in such quantities that even a distributor like Batronix didn't get any of the cake (Welectron and Batterfly did).
-
Didn't have that data, thanks. I'm just impatient, but complaining is useless I suppose. I'll keep making do with the AD2 then :)
-
I knew very early on which models would be coming onto the market and when.
And some of the warehouses were supposed to be full by the deadline, so something unexpected must have happened that prevented this from happening.
The 804 probably still "got through", but not in such quantities that even a distributor like Batronix didn't get any of the cake (Welectron and Batterfly did).
Ours are still weeks away having just got off the production line. :(
US and EU Siglent branches nabbed all the first production runs.....
-
Hello,
Batronix has reduced the waiting time for the SDS3000X HD and the SDS1000X HD from 11-21 days to 5-10 days.
So maybe it could come before Easter.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Well then, I hope that two will fall for us. ;)
As I ordered in the first week of January, there's a good chance we'll get something from the contingent.
-
Hello,
I'm already looking forward to it. And I'm looking forward to the comparison with the MHO3-3504, which now has the same bandwidth.
Best regards
egonotto
-
I'm already looking forward to it. And I'm looking forward to the comparison with the MHO3-3504, which now has the same bandwidth.
Oh -- that MicSig looks too good to be true. Everything I was hoping to see from Siglent. The screen size and resolution are exactly what is needed in a modern 12-bit scope.
-
The Micsig looks cute, but on quick comparison, the 3000X HD is better on paper everywhere except the screen resolution. But what I really don't like is the weird connectors that you need adapters for if you want to use regular probes. A comparison would still be nice. Maybe that will help convince Siglent to up the hardware resolution.
-
Hello,
there are a few things that are better with the MHO3:
HDMI output,
Four USB 3 sockets,
variable low and high pass filters,
Memory: MHO3 has two times 360 MS, SDS3000X HD has only 400 MS and with segmented memory the gap is even greater.
14" screen.
Four BNC adapters are included, which are not required for the 500 MHz probes supplied.
The 500 MHz probes supplied have individual serial numbers and can only be calibrated automatically.
Best regards
egonotto
-
The Micsig looks cute, but on quick comparison, the 3000X HD is better on paper everywhere except the screen resolution.
It's priced to compete with the 2000X HD, not the 3000X HD. The 250MHz version sells for roughly the same price as the SDS-2104X HD.
https://www.saelig.com/micsig-mho/mho3-2504.htm (https://www.saelig.com/micsig-mho/mho3-2504.htm)
The math functions seem somewhat limited (no FFT of math channel). No LA. No AWG option. No Bode plots.
But the rest looks good.
-
But the rest looks good.
;D
It also only has one math channel if I saw it correctly.
But it's not a competitor to other oscilloscopes that you put on your desk, the priorities are different.
-
It's priced to compete with the 2000X HD, not the 3000X HD. The 250MHz version sells for roughly the same price as the SDS-2104X HD.
https://www.saelig.com/micsig-mho/mho3-2504.htm (https://www.saelig.com/micsig-mho/mho3-2504.htm)
The math functions seem somewhat limited (no FFT of math channel). No LA. No AWG option. No Bode plots.
But the rest looks good.
Okay, let's compare with the 2kX HD. Bode plot is one of the most important features for me, so let's start the comparison there. 😉😉
-
The SDS3kX HD or even a SDS2kX HD in physical MHO3 format (including screen resolution) will be the best oscilloscope ever.
But it's just a dream for now ...
I was close to ordering the SDS2104X HD for 1880 Euro + VAT, but I will wait to see the capabilities of the SDS3kX HD.
-
Hello,
how can a weak person resist?
However, the variable filters from MHO3 are really very good. I would like to have them.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Batronix told me around March 29th - But that's already a holiday, so I think more after Easter.
But I wouldn't be sad if they were wrong. ;)
That won't happen this week before Easter. :(
Instead, Batronix was expecting the first 1000X HD today.
-
Just got an email from my supplier (eleshop), Siglent expects to have the SDS3034-X on stock at the end of april... Ordered it 29 feb: So it will still take a while :'(
-
I am also in the end of April club for an SDS3034X HD from Eleshop. Looking forward to putting it through its paces!
-
It doesn't look like eleshop is an official siglent distributor, on their german website siglent is not even listed as a brand.
Such stores are the last to be supplied.
So I'm a little surprised why you're ordering there.
But they did come up with a nice gag:
Siglent is a fast growing brand. The qualities and construction structure of Siglent products are comparable to top brands, such as Rigol, while the prices are often very competitive.
:-DD
-
It doesn't look like eleshop is an official siglent distributor, on their german website siglent is not even listed as a brand.
Such stores are the last to be supplied.
So I'm a little surprised why you're ordering there.
But they did come up with a nice gag:
Siglent is a fast growing brand. The qualities and construction structure of Siglent products are comparable to top brands, such as Rigol, while the prices are often very competitive.
:-DD
That is probably outdated. I think they wrote something similar about Micsig vs Rigol. It was more credible before the appearance of the SDS1104X-E and the 2104X-Plus.
-
Hello,
I fear that it may take even longer. If I've understood correctly, Batronix no longer says a date.
Siglent SDS2XHD-BND is also not immediately available, there was talk of one to two weeks.
Best regards and a lot of patience
egonotto
-
Hi egonotto,
If you're referring to the 3034X HD, they told me(yesterday) that they can't guarantee it BEFORE Easter because they expect it next week.
They themselves are a bit upset because they actually wanted to take a 3000 to the trade fair stand.
-
Siglent SDS2XHD-BND is also not immediately available, there was talk of one to two weeks.
It is in 2 parts, HW and SW.
HQ has HW (SPL2016) and SW (licenses) are taking some time to generate them it seems as we are still waiting for them to arrive via email.
Need to give HQ another hurry up....
Licenses are all we need as we already have SPL2016 in stock.
-
I am still totally flashed by this super bundle offer, all licenses (except bandwidth) plus the logic probes, all for a price well below the single price of the logic probes...
Who wants to hack the scope, it almost makes no sense anymore.
-
Hi egonotto,
If you're referring to the 3034X HD, they told me(yesterday) that they can't guarantee it BEFORE Easter because they expect it next week.
They themselves are a bit upset because they actually wanted to take a 3000 to the trade fair stand.
Hello,
if I remember the chat correctly, when I asked about my SDS3034X HD order, they said that they couldn't say anything about it and that they had at least received a few SDS1000X HD today.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hmm....
They also tolde me the thing with the 1000X HD, but not this:
"they said that they couldn't say anything about it"
OK, let´s be patient and wait and see...
-
It doesn't look like eleshop is an official siglent distributor, on their german website siglent is not even listed as a brand.
Such stores are the last to be supplied.
So I'm a little surprised why you're ordering there.
But they did come up with a nice gag:
Siglent is a fast growing brand. The qualities and construction structure of Siglent products are comparable to top brands, such as Rigol, while the prices are often very competitive.
:-DD
Eleshop is listed at the Siglent EU site as 'Siglent Authorized Distributor' : https://www.siglenteu.com/how-to-buy/ (https://www.siglenteu.com/how-to-buy/)
But i bought several test equipment from the Eleshop, so that's why i order the SDS3034X HD here.
-
Thanks for the info! :-+
But like I said, on eleshop.de you won´t see any siglent scope..
-
Well, if it's any use to anybody, my 1204X-HD was shipped last Thursday. UPS wasn't able to deliver it before Easter, so I'm guessing it'll arrive Tuesday.
-
Hello,
I have a similar situation, only two digits are reversed.
And DHL, who think Good Friday is a working day, instead of UPS.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: The SDS3000X HD will be postponed until the end of April. I hope that it will actually arrive at the end of May.
-
Just adding a datapoint for shipping schedules:
I ordered an SDS3034X HD today via Siglent rep, and their order entry specialist says it will ship on/before 5/31.
-
Still no sign of life regarding the delivery. :(
Something was supposed to be in stock on February 29, then it was mid-March, then the end of March, now it's April.
If it takes any longer.....I'll gladly take an options bundle as a consolation. 8)
-
Still no sign of life regarding the delivery
The availability pictogram on the website(batronix) has been changed from 5-10 to 11-21 days.
That's no fun anymore.
-
Dear Lord ... give me patience NOW!
-
Dear Lord ... give me patience NOW!
God: [slows down time]
-
Dear Lord ... give me patience NOW!
Oh LORD could you buy me a sds3000x HD, I'll wait for delivery each day until 3. |O
-
After all, batronix has the 1102X HD and 1202X HD in stock.
I'm not mad at batronix either, it's not their fault, that was confirmed to me again today from another source.
Something just went wrong and on the one hand I don't like it, because patience comes to an end when a few weeks delay turns into a few months.
On the other hand, I don't want to get a device in this price range that has been hastily knitted with a hot needle to keep the delay as short as possible.
There are always two sides to the coin. ;)
-
After all, batronix has the 1102X HD and 1202X HD in stock.
I'm not mad at batronix either, it's not their fault, that was confirmed to me again today from another source.
Something just went wrong and on the one hand I don't like it, because patience comes to an end when a few weeks delay turns into a few months.
On the other hand, I don't want to get a device in this price range that has been hastily knitted with a hot needle to keep the delay as short as possible.
There are always two sides to the coin. ;)
For sure is not Batronix fault, as nobody has 3000 in stock.
And I woudn't blame totally houthi's generated delays as the 1000's arrived ...
Something at source maybe ... because neither in China it can't be purchased.
-
For sure is not Batronix fault, as nobody has 3000 in stock.
I know, a Siglent rep told me that the problem lies with them.
-
Hello,
I wonder whether the wireless mouse of the SDS2000X HD and SDS3000X HD causes problems if you have both devices in operation at the same time?
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
I wonder whether the wireless mouse of the SDS2000X HD and SDS3000X HD causes problems if you have both devices in operation at the same time?
Best regards
egonotto
No problem at all as each mouse comes with its own USB dongle.
-
Hello,
does this mean that each mouse only works with its own dongle?
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
does this mean that each mouse only works with its own dongle?
Best regards
egonotto
Yes, they are a paired set.
FYI I have used 2 active Siglent products alongside each other with each their own Siglent (Rappo) supplied mouse.
No problems or interference.
-
Before you start piling up mice on your desk, may I offer an alternative:
If you already have a PC on your desk, a VNC connection will bring the scope screen to your PC, which works very good. Tested with RealVNC viewer.
-
Before you start piling up mice on your desk, may I offer an alternative:
If you already have a PC on your desk, a VNC connection will bring the scope screen to your PC, which works very good. Tested with RealVNC viewer.
Then you create another problem.....which mouse to use ! :-DD
-
Hello,
the SDS3034X HD seems to come even later, as Batronix has now changed from 10 to 21 days to 21 to 40 days. Hopefully it will arrive at least by Christmas.
Best regards and a lot of patience
egonotto
-
Where did you order it, also from batronix?
It doesn't really matter, because I can well imagine why they (and probably other dealers) have raised the delivery status again:
I had another conversation with batronix, they expect a delivery 3000X HD in mid april, so in less than a week.
This delivery will be forwarded immediately to the customers who had ordered, which means they will be gone immediately.
It therefore no longer makes sense to change the status buttons on the website because they apply to new orders.
-
Hello,
yes, I have ordered from Batronix. It would be nice if it came next week.
Best regards with new hope
egonotto
-
Look what turned up.
-
Look what turned up.
Nice :-+
I'm surprised they sent you the SDS1000X HD not the fancier SDS3000X HD. Maybe the SDS3000X HD indeed haven't rolled off the production line quite yet.
-
Look what turned up.
We looking for your opinion and a comparison with the SDS2354 HD you have.
Thank you!
LE - grammatically corrected
-
Look what turned up.
Nice :-+
I'm surprised they sent you the SDS1000X HD not the fancier SDS3000X HD. Maybe the SDS3000X HD indeed haven't rolled off the production line quite yet.
Hello,
the package has the carton no: 2/6, so there are five other packages :)
Best regards
egonotto
-
Look what turned up.
Nice :-+
I'm surprised they sent you the SDS1000X HD not the fancier SDS3000X HD. Maybe the SDS3000X HD indeed haven't rolled off the production line quite yet.
Hello,
the package has the carton no: 2/6, so there are five other packages :)
Best regards
egonotto
Wavecom AU is the recipient of the other 5 cartons. ;)
The outer box is always labeled with the recipient but sometimes there are 4 scopes in the box. :)
We have 16 cartons coming in our next order and each one will be labeled this way.
-
Batronix has changed the leading time to 61-90 days for the 4-channel 1000, 2000, and 3000X-HD models.
Can anyone explain why the 3-5month delay? Do they expect a war or something and there is a government embargo on FPGAs?
Or another pandemic maybe, and they messed the timing of illnesses-shortages? :-//
-
Look what turned up.
Nice :-+
I'm surprised they sent you the SDS1000X HD not the fancier SDS3000X HD. Maybe the SDS3000X HD indeed haven't rolled off the production line quite yet.
Hello,
the package has the carton no: 2/6, so there are five other packages :)
Best regards
egonotto
Yep! Seems that Dave will be off for days testing Siglent equipment
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5437319/#msg5437319 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5437319/#msg5437319)
-
Hello,
the SDS3034X HD seems to come even later, as Batronix has now changed from 10 to 21 days to 21 to 40 days.
They have adjusted it again - now to 60-90 days...
-
They will arrive just in time to compete with the new Magnova 'scopes :D
-
I placed an order on Batterfly for a Siglent SDS1104X HD on Match 11th. It was supposed to be shipped in mid-April, but I was notified yesterday that I won't get it until June.
THREE MONTHS?! That's unbearable. I would probably have to freeze myself :-DD
-
I would probably have to freeze myself
Cpt Buck Rogers, ehh, Eric Cartman.... ;)
-
Heh, I just asked the sales people at Siglent's china online retail store, apparently they have stocks of SDS3000X HD, and "could keep one for me" if I ordered today. Whatever that means. :popcorn:
Hang in there SDS3000X HD to-be-owners, the scope is not a myth and it does sound like they are moving units. :-DD
-
We'll see, something happens. Rigol doesn't have new models in stock either.
I'm also waiting for the SDS3000X HD.
Maybe they have temporary chip supply problems. I hope it's not related to the so-called Document 79.
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/china-wants-to-rid-itself-of-western-tech-by-2027-outlines-domestic-alternatives-in-document-79 (https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/china-wants-to-rid-itself-of-western-tech-by-2027-outlines-domestic-alternatives-in-document-79)
-
We'll see, something happens. Rigol doesn't have new models in stock either.
I'm also waiting for the SDS3000X HD.
Maybe they have temporary chip supply problems. I hope it's not related to the so-called Document 79.
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/china-wants-to-rid-itself-of-western-tech-by-2027-outlines-domestic-alternatives-in-document-79 (https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/china-wants-to-rid-itself-of-western-tech-by-2027-outlines-domestic-alternatives-in-document-79)
Who knows. I'm sure western governments will take note and keep increasing production costs, taxation, and forcing companies to keep outsourcing production. I have it on good authority that it signals virtue like nothing. We'll see if China decides to cut the exports too, and not only imports.
At least Europe can keep bragging about having the highest average salaries in the world for a couple years maybe.
It could also have something to do with the Red Sea war and normal supply routes. There is a lot of crap going on in the world right now, if we add to that the usual, more mundane problems in production lines, one can hardly be surprised about the delays.
-
Update re: "Just adding a datapoint for shipping schedules"...
My SDS3034X HD arrived today (ordered April 3 via Siglent NA rep). While discussing my quote, the sales rep said I should submit my order ASAP so I could be in the next batch of SDS3000X HD, because the demand has been quite high. He said he was "supposed to say 6 weeks lead time", which I interpreted to mean there was a chance it might arrive early, which it did. But then the order entry specialist said it would arrive "on/before May 31", which seemed similar to what I've been reading here.
Anyway, hopefully this means others will get theirs soon. I don't know how much difference it makes ordering from a distributor -vs- directly from Siglent.
-
My SDS3034X HD arrived today (ordered April 3 via Siglent NA rep).
Still no sign of my order - and I had already pre-ordered in January. :(
At least someone has now received one. :-+
-
Hello,
have fun.
Best regards
egonotto
-
My SDS3034X HD arrived today (ordered April 3 via Siglent NA rep).
Still no sign of my order - and I had already pre-ordered in January. :(
At least someone has now received one. :-+
Hello,
I hope that it will work out for us this month.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Batronix seems to have in stock the 1202 and 1104X-HD.
After talking with one of the spanish distributors I wouldn't be surprised if the 60 days was a conservative estimation. I'm seriously thinking about upgrading my purchase to the 1000X-HD.
Nothing confirmed though. I'm actually quite interested (just curiosity) on the SDS3000X-HD, and awaiting Martin72 and egonotto tests, among others.
Ideally, I'd buy the Magnova, but it's not priced for a young-ish hobbyist just starting. In general, not just in the hobby.
-
https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS1104X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS1104X-hd.html)
Yes, it's in stock - I'm curious to see when the first 3000 will also have a "green button".
-
My SDS3034X HD arrived today (ordered April 3 via Siglent NA rep).
Still no sign of my order - and I had already pre-ordered in January. :(
At least someone has now received one. :-+
Hello,
I hope that it will work out for us this month.
Best regards
egonotto
Postponed again, to the end of April.
I'm not going to ask anymore.
-
Hello,
that is still 7 working days without today.
I hope they can keep to the announcement this time
Best regards
egonotto
-
It's on its way!
-
It's on its way!
Hope you will share the unboxing with us!
-
It's on its way!
:phew: Finally !
I really hope it is all you wish for and more Martin. :popcorn:
-
Hello,
I haven't heard anything yet :(
Best regards
egonotto
-
I ordered mine on January 5th, so I may have been the first to do so.
In any case, I didn't dream it this morning, because I received a confirmation with the tracking number just now.
-
Hello,
then it could arrive on Wednesday.
I've asked and will probably know more tomorrow.
I wish you lots of fun. As they say in Warcraft3 gl hf (good luck have fun).
Best regards
egonotto
-
I wish you lots of fun.
Thank you, I will probably have that too. :D
But probably not until the weekend, if at all (mega stressful at work at the moment).
Of course I'll pick it up as soon as it arrives at the packing station. ;)
Then present it here briefly. 8)
I won't be opening a separate thread about it though, nor will there be a bug/feature thread from me.
-
But now all 1000X HD except for the 1204 are listed on stock, after all.
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1000X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1000X-hd.html)
-
Hello,
now the SDS3000X HD should come at the end of May :) :) :).
It would go on like this with every intelligence test: Now the end of June, now the end of July, ...
I would like to know what problems Siglent really has.
Unfortunately, with my SDS2000X HD I pay for every use of a decoder with the loss of 1 in the ARINC trial count.
Best regards
egonotto
-
24h later..... ;)
Unpacked, more pictures will follow in the days to come.
The fact that the display foil is not present and neither are the front dust caps is not a problem, but it was different with the 2104XHD.
Excellent workmanship, the handle is of course made of aluminum.
This time a mouse is also included and very nice probes.
And....
A calibration certificate, complete with values. :-+
Since Siglent usually does this with their “Pro” models, it underlines the claim they have with the 3000 series.
At the moment I am very pleasantly surprised by all of them. 8)
More pictures and first impressions after switching on soon, not today, it's quite cold outside here and the device has to acclimatize first.
-
24h later..... ;)
Congratulations! I guess I can't tease you about waiting anymore. Aw shucks. 😉
-
Hello,
the SP3050A (this is wrong!) probes are also included in the SDS2104X HD.
Best regards
egonotto
Sorry, I made a mistake. My SDS2104X HD comes with the SP5050A.
-
At the time, my SDS2104X HD came with probes (5050A) that did not appear to be of such high quality:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg4236166/#msg4236166 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg4236166/#msg4236166)
-
Hello,
the SP3050A probes are also included in the SDS2104X HD.
Best regards
egonotto
My SDS2104X HD (received just after Easter) also came with the SP5050A probes.
-
Mine too, a few weeks back.
Still, 500MHz probes delivered with a 100MHz scope - can't complain.
-
Hello,
sorry, I made a mistake. My SDS2104X HD comes with the SP5050A.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Mine also. As far as I can tell, the maximum rms voltage rating is a bit lower (300 versus 400).
-
you shouldn't look at mains signals without a differential probe...
-
I just updated the forum rules. When new equipment is shown, the forum doesn't accept new posts from that user unless a teardown is shown.
@Martin I can send you screwdrivers for free if you don't have any to perform the requested action.
-
Dave will certainly soon receive a SDS3000 ...
-
I just updated the forum rules. When new equipment is shown, the forum doesn't accept new posts from that user unless a teardown is shown.
@Martin I can send you screwdrivers for free if you don't have any to perform the requested action.
Martin isn't about to void his warranty! He needs the warranty intact when he sells the scope a year from now when the opportunity arises for him to get an 8GHz SDS7000A in exchange for $500 and a high-five.
-
Dave will certainly soon receive a SDS3000 ...
If he has ordered one, he will get one at some point. ;)
The delivery situation is very difficult, as only those who will pay for it are likely to be supplied first.
As it turned out today, I wouldn't have been able to get one either, despite ordering over 3 months ago.
They sent me their own demonstration device by mistake (hence the missing display foil and dust caps), but I can keep it until a new one is actually sent out. 8)
So I can play around a bit, I've already started it after the acclimatization.
The fan is regulated, that's for sure, it makes a clear noise at the beginning when booting, then it gradually gets quieter and quieter - but not as quiet as the SDS2000X HD.
A few things are different from what I'm used to, and the “basic speed” seems faster to me.
But I'll find out more about that in the days to come, with the report here, of course.
-
I'm pretty sure Dave receives devices he didn't order ;)
-
I'm pretty sure Dave receives devices he didn't order ;)
For sure.
Yet, what has HQ had in return for their gift of 2 scopes of nearly $2k in value as yet.
Crickets.....
-
I'm pretty sure Dave receives devices he didn't order
But it also has to do something for this, and it hasn't for a long time, or at least not properly, especially with Siglent products.
-
Yet, what has HQ had in return for their gift of 2 scopes of nearly $2k in value as yet.
Crickets.....
But it also has to do something for this, and it hasn't for a long time, or at least not properly, especially with Siglent products.
Frankly, a first-to-market, flashy Rigol scope might suit Dave's style and format better than a second-to-market Siglent scope with a no-frills package, no-frills UI, and powerful-but-complex capabilities.
-
Even if Dave would actually care and create a similar fuss as with Rigol, it would be of no benefit for DSOs above hobbyist level, which I would define with the SDS2000X Plus as an upper limit. Or an SDS2000X HD at most after the latest price drop.
Higher class instruments such as the midrange SDS3000X are for professionals primarily (even though it's still a very affordable X-class instrument). And Professionals just don't base their purchasing decisions on the EEVblog - neither Dave's videos, nor the forum with its rather low S/N ratio...
-
Even if Dave would actually care and create a similar fuss as with Rigol, it would be of no benefit for DSOs above hobbyist level, which I would define with the SDS2000X Plus as an upper limit. Or an SDS2000X HD at most after the latest price drop.
Higher class instruments such as the midrange SDS3000X are for professionals primarily (even though it's still a very affordable X-class instrument). And Professionals just don't base their purchasing decisions on the EEVblog - neither Dave's videos, nor the forum with its rather low S/N ratio...
Up to 5-7,000 euros are not really unaffordable for a more powerful amateur or a very small company.
So an SDS3000X HD would be just the thing.
Not everyone can have easy access to a demo unit.
A review and a teardown might convince. Not to mention the excellent tests you did for some models.
Otherwise we'll be saving some more money for a Keysight or R&S.
On the other hand, many of us were glad to see a teardown with the R&S MXO4 even if we never get to have it.
-
Up to 5-7,000 euros are not really unaffordable for a more powerful amateur or a very small company.
So an SDS3000X HD would be just the thing.
Not everyone can have easy access to a demo unit.
A review and a teardown might convince. Not to mention the excellent tests you did for some models.
But what kind of review do you expect Dave to do? In preparing a video, he cannot spend days and weeks to really dig into the subtleties of a device as powerful and complex as the 3000X HD. And his video format does not allow for the level of detail which Performa01 presented in his 800X HD thread -- nowhere near, in fact.
Let's face it: The EEVblog videos are about entertainment, not about the in-depth assessment one would want to do before spending 5000€ and more. For professional customers, getting a demo unit would probably be the way to go. And for serious amateurs, at least in Europe, you can always buy a unit, test it for 2-4 weeks, and return it in case of major disappointments.
-
But what kind of review do you expect Dave to do? In preparing a video, he cannot spend days and weeks to really dig into the subtleties of a device as powerful and complex as the 3000X HD. And his video format does not allow for the level of detail which Performa01 presented in his 800X HD thread -- nowhere near, in fact.
In this particular case I would like to know which FPGA has the SDS800 vs SDS1000 vs SDS3000 because they are all part of the same family, so as software they are similar, but as processing power I have no idea how different they are.
If the SDS1000 is just an SDS800 with a bigger screen, the price difference is not justified for many of us. About the SDS1000 we know what hardware it includes (user skander posted photos), but we don't know what FPGA and ADC converters the SDS800 has.
Same with the SDS3000. Unless it's significantly more powerful, faster than the SDS2000X HD, I have the same problem.
Also, it looks like the new SDS2000X HD, black, is coming.
Siglent is aiming higher than Rigol, and it would be nice to have more inside info (hardware) on these products. A review by Dave might help here.
Let's face it: The EEVblog videos are about entertainment, not about the in-depth assessment one would want to do before spending 5000€ and more. For professional customers, getting a demo unit would probably be the way to go. And for serious amateurs, at least in Europe, you can always buy a unit, test it for 2-4 weeks, and return it in case of major disappointments.
I'm not so sure about that.
Even though Dave doesn't always go into as much detail as we'd like, the work he does is VERY time consuming and the equipment he has access to for reviews is not available to all of us.
And the style he has covers a wide range of users. From beginners to advanced anyone can find useful and very useful information.
Unfortunately we can't find all the information in one place, we have to gather from several sources.
I don't like to order and then return the equipment. I prefer to have as much information as possible from the start.
And I wouldn't like to receive equipment already used as new.
If I don't like it, I'll sell it as second hand afterwards.
-
Same with the SDS3000. Unless it's significantly more powerful, faster than the SDS2000X HD, I have the same problem.
Double the memory, double the sample rate, double the bandwidth...
The 3000 series can then cost more.
Whereby the "significantly faster" would still have to be defined in terms of what is meant by this.
One second of acquisition time, for example, remains one second, even with the most expensive scopes in the world.
-
Same with the SDS3000. Unless it's significantly more powerful, faster than the SDS2000X HD, I have the same problem.
Double the memory, double the sample rate, double the bandwidth...
The 3000 series can then cost more.
Whereby the "significantly faster" would still have to be defined in terms of what is meant by this.
One second of acquisition time, for example, remains one second, even with the most expensive scopes in the world.
I don't need a lot of memory, bandwidth or sampling rate.
I have some of that with Rigol, but it has big shortcomings in many other ways.
But I would like it to be fast when running math functions, FFT, Bode, etc.
How is the SDS3000 vs SDS2000X HD in this respect?
-
-snip
They sent me their own demonstration device by mistake (hence the missing display foil and dust caps), but I can keep it until a new one is actually sent out. 8)
So I can play around a bit, I've already started it after the acclimatization.
Just out of curiosity, who are "they" ?
-
Batronix.
-
-snip
Up to 5-7,000 euros are not really unaffordable for a more powerful amateur or a very small company.
So an SDS3000X HD would be just the thing.
Dunno in Romania, but I would dare to say that 99% of small companys and 100% of amateurs in Italy do NOT spend 5K, or even more, for a fancy DSO ...
-
Batronix.
"by mistake" ... good to know.
-
Even though Dave doesn't always go into as much detail as we'd like, the work he does is VERY time consuming and the equipment he has access to for reviews is not available to all of us.
And the style he has covers a wide range of users. From beginners to advanced anyone can find useful and very useful information.
Maybe I have not found the right EEVblog videos then -- I certainly don't claim to know them all. Would you have an example of an EEVblog T&M review which goes into enough detail to base a 5000€ purchase decision on it?
I don't like to order and then return the equipment. I prefer to have as much information as possible from the start.
And I wouldn't like to receive equipment already used as new.
If I don't like it, I'll sell it as second hand afterwards.
I mostly agree, and don't use that return option lightly. E.g. I have never ordered two or three products (in any price class) in parallel with the clear intent to keep only one and return the other(s). But with the DHO1074 which I ordered after quite a bit of online "research", I ended up returning it after finding too many glitches.
Seems fair to me for a mail-order purchase which you can't check out hands-on before buying. Also, I used my existing probes and mains cable for testing, not even unpacking the ones shipped with the scope, so the returned unit was "as new".
-
-snip
Seems fair to me for a mail-order purchase which you can't check out hands-on before buying. Also, I used my existing probes and mains cable for testing, not even unpacking the ones shipped with the scope, so the returned unit was "as new".
I do not agree at all with this "practice", if planned, as in your case, it is unfair and is to the detriment of others, seller and customers that eventually will receive your "tested" device later.
I also bet you too hate receiving opened used boxes and tested equipment...
-
I do not agree at all with this "practice", if planned, as in your case, it is unfair and is to the detriment of others, seller and customers that eventually will receive your "tested" device later.
Please re-read my post. Where did you pick up the message that I planned to return it from the start? I would have loved to find it convincing and keep it, since I bought it at the very favorable Black Friday price.
-
I've just received the following news (from eleshop) :
Siglent has released special PC software SigScopeLab for Windows (free)
Key features :
- Offline waveform data analysis on PC
- Max. 2 channels for offline analysis
- Up to 2Mpts per channel for offline analysis
- Support for 12-bit vertical resolution
- Remote management of oscilloscopes and setup synchronization
- Fetch data to PC online for local analysis
- Multi-window display modes for flexible observation
- User-friendly interface consistent with traditional oscilloscope interface
https://eleshop.eu/siglent-sigscopelab
-
A review and a teardown might convince.
That's not going to come from Dave, especially not for Siglent gear. He seems to have a problem with Siglent, and every time he does a video he has to say "wow, none of the famous Siglent rust!" He also doesn't tend to learn the scopes at all. Like spending at least 10 minutes figuring out 'what's wrong with the scope,' and why it was maxed out at 100MHz...and eventually figured out he was in 10 bit mode on the SDS2000X+. He didn't RTFM.
If you want in-depth reviews like Performa01's, then you need Performa01 to do it. Nobody has done anything on the level of what he did for the 800X HD.
Don't get me wrong, I usually enjoy Dave's videos, but they really are just entertainment. Especially now that he's focused on spreading further on social media. I hope he does justice to the two scopes he recently received from Siglent.
-
Martin isn't about to void his warranty! He needs the warranty intact when he sells the scope a year from now when the opportunity arises for him to get an 8GHz SDS7000A in exchange for $500 and a high-five.
Will 4 GHz do for a start? ;)
-
Martin isn't about to void his warranty! He needs the warranty intact when he sells the scope a year from now when the opportunity arises for him to get an 8GHz SDS7000A in exchange for $500 and a high-five.
Will 4 GHz do for a start? ;)
Of course! But he just got the 3000X HD, so you gotta let him play with it for a year before he gets bored, and the 8GHz will be out by then. 😉
-
A review and a teardown might convince.
That's not going to come from Dave, especially not for Siglent gear. He seems to have a problem with Siglent, and every time he does a video he has to say "wow, none of the famous Siglent rust!" He also doesn't tend to learn the scopes at all. Like spending at least 10 minutes figuring out 'what's wrong with the scope,' and why it was maxed out at 100MHz...and eventually figured out he was in 10 bit mode on the SDS2000X+. He didn't RTFM.
If you want in-depth reviews like Performa01's, then you need Performa01 to do it. Nobody has done anything on the level of what he did for the 800X HD.
Don't get me wrong, I usually enjoy Dave's videos, but they really are just entertainment. Especially now that he's focused on spreading further on social media. I hope he does justice to the two scopes he recently received from Siglent.
Perform01's offering could become a textbook!
-
Have Siglent send a 3000X HD to Shariar over at The Signal Path. He certainly has the knowledge and equipment to do it justice and test to (and beyond) its limits, it's practically in the DC domain as far as he's concerned :-)
I'd most certainly watch that video even though I'm not in the market for one.
-
Don't get me wrong, I usually enjoy Dave's videos, but they really are just entertainment. Especially now that he's focused on spreading further on social media. I hope he does justice to the two scopes he recently received from Siglent.
He never did a proper review of the SDS2K HD. Only a teardown. I'm not expecting too much. But I'm sure a review done by Perform01 will outperform any other review.
Dave likes negative feedback. Maybe that's the problem.
-
A review and a teardown might convince.
That's not going to come from Dave, especially not for Siglent gear. He seems to have a problem with Siglent, and every time he does a video he has to say "wow, none of the famous Siglent rust!" He also doesn't tend to learn the scopes at all. Like spending at least 10 minutes figuring out 'what's wrong with the scope,' and why it was maxed out at 100MHz...and eventually figured out he was in 10 bit mode on the SDS2000X+. He didn't RTFM.
If you want in-depth reviews like Performa01's, then you need Performa01 to do it. Nobody has done anything on the level of what he did for the 800X HD.
Don't get me wrong, I usually enjoy Dave's videos, but they really are just entertainment. Especially now that he's focused on spreading further on social media. I hope he does justice to the two scopes he recently received from Siglent.
Perform01's offering could become a textbook!
A user manual written by Perform01 would be the best possible user manual. Any questions on the forum would be redirected to -> RTFM page no xx.
But discussions would be more boring without so many assumptions and contrary opinions :)
-
A user manual written by Perform01 would be the best possible user manual.
I have been wondering whether Performa01 might have had a hand in some parts of the SDS800X HD manual (and prior manuals for the same platform). There are some chapters which are a touch above the rest -- say the FFT chapter, and some paragraphs in the Math/Filter section.
Anybody able to offer insights? Just curious... 8)
-
I need to upgrade my scope, and the 3000X HD (500MHz or 1GHz) looks very attractive. I don't want to buy used, and the list price for the 3000X is just around my pain point. Are there any decent reviews out there? Would anyone here suggest that I look elsewhere? I am doing medium speed digital, and RF at 100 MHz and below, and I need to look at signal integrity. Other analysis tools aren't critical , but you never know what future needs might be. I've got plenty of other RF tools (SAs, sig gens, etc.)
Any guidance?
-
Hi,
I've had the SDS3034X HD for 2 days, but haven't been able to use it yet because I'm too busy at the moment. :(
However, the competition for this series is no longer to be found at Rigol or other similar manufacturers.
12 bit and 1Ghz....If you look around at Tektronix and Lecroy, you can easily get rid of a lot more money.
At the moment, the only competition to siglent is siglent itself.
-
Same with the SDS3000. Unless it's significantly more powerful, faster than the SDS2000X HD, I have the same problem.
Double the memory, double the sample rate, double the bandwidth...
The 3000 series can then cost more.
Whereby the "significantly faster" would still have to be defined in terms of what is meant by this.
One second of acquisition time, for example, remains one second, even with the most expensive scopes in the world.
I don't need a lot of memory, bandwidth or sampling rate.
But I would like it to be fast when running math functions, FFT, Bode, etc.
How is the SDS3000 vs SDS2000X HD in this respect?
Performance in any of the modern fully configurable DSO's is directly proportional to how you drive it and the settings you use.
Take your pick, deep memory and all the advantages it can offer or wind it back some for the fastest possible performance.
The XY performance in this thread are fine examples of user settings for best performance:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/oscilloscope-music-on-dsos-post-your-results/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/oscilloscope-music-on-dsos-post-your-results/)
-
Speaking of scope music, I tried it briefly earlier....With ERES 16bit it's pretty cool. 8)
I have to work through next weekend, maybe I'll have more time for scope the following weekend. :P
But I took a few pictures earlier and tried out the scope music briefly.
What is noticeable so far is the very short reaction time when working through the menus.
Makes me want to try out more. ;)
-
Of course! But he just got the 3000X HD, so you gotta let him play with it for a year before he gets bored, and the 8GHz will be out by then. 😉
I would have to lie if I said I wasn't interested in the SDS7000A. ;)
At work, I'm used to working with larger scopes, so a PC-based scope naturally has its appeal for private use.
But you have to be realistic.
Around 20000€ for a 3Ghz scope, if I bought that, nobody in my immediate environment would love me anymore.
Or make sure that I was admitted to a psychiatric ward.
5000 is my absolute limit, as long as I'm just a normal working person.
For a scope, mind you, the threshold is much lower for other measuring devices.
It may seem from the outside that I'm hopping from scope.
I do, but never without a reason.
I made the biggest jump in price when I switched from the SDS2000Xplus to the SDS2000X HD.
But it was worth it to me - later.
When I got to know the advantages better, you don't see them at first glance, except for the 12 bits.
You can be happy with the 2000X HD for the rest of your hobby life, without question.
With the 2000Xplus almost...but not quite, believe me.
Ergo the HD.
If the 3000 hadn't been introduced, it would have stayed that way, because a 6000A would be over my set budget.
But then came the SDS3000X HD.
1Ghz, 4 GSa/s... No, I couldn't resist.
I was still able to sell the SDS2000X HD, and I got a very good deal on the 3000X HD, so I only had to spend €500 on it - I would have been stupid not to take advantage of that.
So I had to strike again.
And this really could be the final scope, within my budget.
Sure, I'd like a bigger screen and a slightly higher resolution, 12” and 1280x800 for example, but then we'd be back to the 6000 and that costs €7700 at least.
No chance, I don't want to spend that much.
And it wouldn't be a 12 bit scope, “only” 8.
-
I would have to lie if I said I wasn't interested in the SDS7000A. ;)
At work, I'm used to working with larger scopes, so a PC-based scope naturally has its appeal for private use.
But you have to be realistic.
Around 20000€ for a 3Ghz scope, if I bought that, nobody in my immediate environment would love me anymore.
It's settled then! Somebody in your immediate environment is going to win the lottery and buy it for you. In the end, it will only cost you a high five. 😉
-
I would only be interested in the performance, the bandwidth less so.
And I like multi-grid, you don't get that with SoC systems either...
-
24h later..... ;)
Unpacked, more pictures will follow in the days to come.
The fact that the display foil is not present and neither are the front dust caps is not a problem, but it was different with the 2104XHD.
As it turned out today, I wouldn't have been able to get one either, despite ordering over 3 months ago.
They sent me their own demonstration device by mistake (hence the missing display foil and dust caps), but I can keep it until a new one is actually sent out. 8)
This Batronix "mistake" where they seem to ship you their own demo-unit as your new retail unit..
Was it you, that asked Batronix why your SDS3000X HD were missing certain new clothing factors, like screen-foil etc, and then they explained you, that "ups we made a mistake and shipped you our demo unit" or was it Batronix that gave that info without any inquiry and we made a mistake and its only a temporary and you will get a brand new model when its in stock?
-
Hi,
The latter.
If you only have one of them in the house and it's gone, you'll probably notice it sooner. ;)
-
Hi,
The latter.
If you only have one of them in the house and it's gone, you'll probably notice it sooner. ;)
So happy with today's ISO9001 company's so be prepared
-
I have been wondering whether Performa01 might have had a hand in some parts of the SDS800X HD manual (and prior manuals for the same platform). There are some chapters which are a touch above the rest -- say the FFT chapter, and some paragraphs in the Math/Filter section.
Anybody able to offer insights? Just curious... 8)
I think I'm the best person to answer this: no, I've never consciously contributed to any Siglent manual, I've not even ever reviewed one.
I've always tried to use the instruments intuitively, and only if that failed took a look at the manual - which were very rare cases. Of course, if I found the information there to be incorrect or missing, then I've reported it.
Why did I write "consciously" in the paragraph above? No, I'm not a somnambulist, but I've published a lot of things in this forum, including a deep review of the SDS1004X-E, which might have had some influence one way or the other.
-
I'm not a somnambulist
Are you sure you haven't sleep walked into a manual or two? 🤣
-
I'm not a somnambulist
Are you sure you haven't sleep walked into a manual or two? 🤣
A somnascriptor ?? :-DD
-
It would be great if performa01 would contribute to the manuals.
The documentation is something that, in my opinion, is not yet running smoothly at Siglent.
Be it that the manuals are not updated after various feature upgrades.
Or that certain special functions are not sufficiently explained.
If there are application notes for this, it would be nice if there was at least a reference to this.
-
I just tried the new software released by Siglent sigscopelab.
But this software seem to require some work.
-Setting the time base cycles the time base on the remote device between 1 s, 2 s, 10 ns instead of following the required setting.
-The application frequently freezes, a command window appears and disappears.
I didn't do any further tests.
Also, this is a free version. I hope they are not planning to release sub standard node locked pay ware like other brands do.
-
I just tried the new software released by Siglent sigscopelab.
But this software seem to require some work.
It needs a lot of work, but it's free (at least for now). I tried it with my SDS2504X+, and it worked pretty well, but putting the scope in 10 bit mode made it crazy.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf1TSnMRh7E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf1TSnMRh7E)
-
Nice! Biggest issues I saw:
5:05 didn't know the difference between the internal LA hw or external LA hw connections...
11:32 still didn't know LA hw is external, assumes the zynq chip is handling the LA stuff.
If you don't want to RTFM, look at the product page quickly and you can see the external logic hardware listed.
-
As expected, the core architecture seems very similar to the 800X HD series. The front ends differ, of course, due to the 50 Ohm support in the 1000 series.
I am still puzzled by the dual ADCs. Why did Siglent splash out on those, given that the total sampling rate across all active channels is always 2 GSa/s maximum in the SDS1000X HD? Does this imply that the scope could technically run at 2*2 GSa/s (or 4*1 GSa/s) and is just throttled to keep the higher-end models differentiated?
It's the same for the 800X HD platform, of course. But I don't think we ever reached a conclusion there?
-
I would rather enjoy the fact that there has never been so much “scope” for the money as there is now, instead of brooding about it.
Not so long ago, the 12-bit ADCs used were cited as one of the reasons why the 2000X HD was twice as expensive as the 2000X plus.
Now you can get them in a 500€ model. ;)
-
I would rather enjoy the fact that there has never been so much “scope” for the money as there is now, instead of brooding about it.
Not so long ago, the 12-bit ADCs used were cited as one of the reasons why the 2000X HD was twice as expensive as the 2000X plus.
Now you can get them in a 500€ model. ;)
Who's brooding? I am just curious why certain design decisions were made and what they imply. Maybe there is something to be learned?
Let's face it, most of our threads here are about "scopology" rather than about using the scopes in practice. (Which is fine by me, there are Project setions etc. which discuss the latter.) No doubt that we get excellent affordable scopes today, which most of the time we won't even use at their full potential. But what's wrong with also being curious about how they work, how they were designed and why? The Test Equipment section would be pretty quiet otherwise.
-
I'm waiting for a teardown showing which FPGA and ADC are used in the SDS800X HD. The ADC converter seems to have the smaller capsule vs the SDS1000X HS, but the FPGA might be the same.
Indeed, it's a shame to waste resources, in the sense of not making full use of the ADC converter. 2 x 2GS/s would have made more sense.
If there were limits in the FPGA for example, it would have been logical and cheaper to use an ADC with 4 x 1GS/s channels in the same capsule.
However, we can still enjoy these devices considering the price/performance ratio.
-
As expected, the core architecture seems very similar to the 800X HD series. The front ends differ, of course, due to the 50 Ohm support in the 1000 series.
I am still puzzled by the dual ADCs. Why did Siglent splash out on those, given that the total sampling rate across all active channels is always 2 GSa/s maximum in the SDS1000X HD? Does this imply that the scope could technically run at 2*2 GSa/s (or 4*1 GSa/s) and is just throttled to keep the higher-end models differentiated?
It's the same for the 800X HD platform, of course. But I don't think we ever reached a conclusion there?
I see two reasons. One or both can be true:
One as you said, the configuration is chosen to create a gap between models.
Or the ADC is configured so, because the FPGA does not have enough resources to process data from 2X2 GSPS.
The double ADC indeed should be capable of a max. 2x2 GSPS in dual ADC config or 4 GSPS in interleaved mode.
-
I would rather enjoy the fact that there has never been so much “scope” for the money as there is now, instead of brooding about it.
Not so long ago, the 12-bit ADCs used were cited as one of the reasons why the 2000X HD was twice as expensive as the 2000X plus.
Now you can get them in a 500€ model. ;)
This, Twice.
A 200MHz 12 bit scope is more than enough for 99% of hobbyist. 25 years ago, digital scopes were in the "small house" price range.
My first privately owned scope in 1995 was a 15MHz analog boat anchor, barely enough bandwidth to service a television.
I could take the 1204X-HD to work and still happily do my job with that. Hell, the R&S I use at work has 10 bits only.
-
I'm waiting for a teardown showing which FPGA and ADC are used in the SDS800X HD.
The .bit inside the 800/1000X HD FW package is for a Zynq 7z020clg484.
-
SDS 3000X HD has
Product_ID: 18601
and filesystem contains this password:
root:$5$4se6aot/c2tWs2Lm$UvRirGQV4dp9ytuaWjrbhyqy.glwqqVT8wtMRnc8a57:::::::
Uses Licenses v2.0. ;)
The app contains references to a new Siglent device's internal name:
HULUWA_2CH
HULUWA_4CH
(don't know if it's one of the recently released as I haven't looked at Siglent's for quite awhile)
-
The app contains references to a new Siglent device's internal name:
HULUWA_2CH
HULUWA_4CH
The new to come 6&8 GHz models ?
https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds7000a/ (https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds7000a/)
-
The new to come 6&8 GHz models ?
First time I see BW references inside Siglent's FW going up to 16GHz !!!
-
Bodnarpulse on the SDS3034X HD, risetime about 830ps.
-
The new to come 6&8 GHz models ?
First time I see BW references inside Siglent's FW going up to 16GHz !!!
This means, any 20..40Gs gear to come. Than we go with Bodnarpulse to the real 30ps risetime :-DD
Requires any better based oscillator & synthesizers as in fs... just look at LeCroy HD series. To get any trusted Jitter figures.
-
The new to come 6&8 GHz models ?
First time I see BW references inside Siglent's FW going up to 16GHz !!!
This means, any 20..40Gs gear to come. Than we go with Bodnarpulse to the real 30ps risetime :-DD
Requires any better based oscillator & synthesizers as in fs... just look at LeCroy HD series. To get any trusted Jitter figures.
Already available. :P
https://siglentna.com/product/precision-frequency-reference/
(https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/10M_OCXO_L.png)
-
The new to come 6&8 GHz models ?
First time I see BW references inside Siglent's FW going up to 16GHz !!!
This means, any 20..40Gs gear to come. Than we go with Bodnarpulse to the real 30ps risetime :-DD
Requires any better based oscillator & synthesizers as in fs... just look at LeCroy HD series. To get any trusted Jitter figures.
Already available. :P
https://siglentna.com/product/precision-frequency-reference/
Any trusted or valid company would provide any PN figures of the OXCO. In addition any ventilation as vibrations from the gear will reduced the performance of the OXCO to death.
This means also, double oven would reduce the any environment temperature changes.
IMHO, it looks like cheap AliExpress thinking's as no valued gear. While even no performance/improvements & data's provided. :palm:
Hp
-
The new to come 6&8 GHz models ?
First time I see BW references inside Siglent's FW going up to 16GHz !!!
This means, any 20..40Gs gear to come. Than we go with Bodnarpulse to the real 30ps risetime :-DD
Requires any better based oscillator & synthesizers as in fs... just look at LeCroy HD series. To get any trusted Jitter figures.
Already available. :P
https://siglentna.com/product/precision-frequency-reference/
Any trusted or valid company would provide any PN figures of the OXCO. In addition any ventilation as vibrations from the gear will reduced the performance of the OXCO to death.
This means also, double oven would reduce the any environment temperature changes.
IMHO, it looks like cheap AliExpress thinking's as no valued gear. While even no performance/improvements & data's provided. :palm:
Tis in the datasheets for the instrument it fits:
OCXO option
Frequency 10M Hz
Initial accuracy -100 +100 ppb 25 ℃
Temperature stability -1 +1 ppb 0 ~ 50 ℃
1st-year aging -50 +50 ppb
-
Tis in the datasheets for the instrument it fits:
RTFM / RTFDS?? We have to read to get info now?? :palm: :palm: :palm:
-
OCXO option
Frequency 10M Hz
Initial accuracy -100 +100 ppb 25 ℃
Temperature stability -1 +1 ppb 0 ~ 50 ℃
1st-year aging -50 +50 ppb
I think you are talking about two different requirements here. The optional OXCO seems designed to provide precise and long-term stable frequency, if you want to measure absolute frequencies with the scope. hpw was asking about low jitter and low phase noise, for use as a timebase for very fast acquisition.
-
Tis in the datasheets for the instrument it fits:
RTFM / RTFDS?? We have to read to get info now?? :palm: :palm: :palm:
I would curse more quietly in your place, since you apparently did not read hpw's question. ::)
-
I would curse more quietly in your place, since you apparently did not read hpw's question. ::)
Why? He makes vast assumptions, without researching anything, and then constantly facepalms at everything. Sarcasm still applies.
-
Tis in the datasheets for the instrument it fits:
RTFM / RTFDS?? We have to read to get info now?? :palm: :palm: :palm:
I would curse more quietly in your place, since you apparently did not read hpw's question. ::)
My suggestion to you is to browse quickly through his posts to get a feeling what kind of language is used in majority of them.
He fires off opinions on a whim, rarely verify information and is very rude and dismissive in general.
Fact that he is right sometimes does not buy him goodwill, based on attitude alone. He burned that bridge...
-
He made baseless assumptions and facepalmed...like he does at everything. Rob bolded the part he replied to.
-
My suggestion to you is to browse quickly through his posts to get a feeling what kind of language is used in majority of them.
He fires off opinions on a whim, rarely verify information and is very rude and dismissive in general.
Fact that he is right sometimes does not buy him goodwill, based on attitude alone. He burned that bridge...
I do not like hpw's style either. But if we want to focus on facts for a moment, hpw had voiced specific concerns about clock jitter and phase noise (in the context of future scopes with very high acquisition rates). So tautech's datasheet reference was missing the mark, and so was Josh's usual "Someone caught a blow, let me give them another kick in the teeth" response.
-
I do not like hpw's style either. But if we want to focus on facts for a moment, hpw had voiced specific concerns about clock jitter and phase noise (in the context of future scopes with very high acquisition rates). So tautech's datasheet reference was missing the mark, and so was Josh's usual "Someone caught a blow, let me give them another kick in the teeth" response.
You're an interesting fellow. Rob responded to something specific, and highlighted what he was responding to. You, as usual, decided to jump on that and say something to attack him for responding to somebody who's generally antagonizing for no reason.
hpw speculated about imaginary concerns without any evidence such problems actually exist.
Yet, here you are, attacking me also for some reason. Not sure what I did to ruffle your feathers. But I'll give you hpw's famous response. :palm: :palm: :palm:
-
Tis in the datasheets for the instruments it fits:
We have to read to get info now??
Any of the Siglent websites.
The OXCO option is listed to fit these current models:
SDS7000A
SDG7000A
SSG5000X
SNA5000A
-
Tis in the datasheets for the instrument it fits:
RTFM / RTFDS?? We have to read to get info now?? :palm: :palm: :palm:
I would curse more quietly in your place, since you apparently did not read hpw's question. ::)
My suggestion to you is to browse quickly through his posts to get a feeling what kind of language is used in majority of them.
He fires off opinions on a whim, rarely verify information and is very rude and dismissive in general.
Fact that he is right sometimes does not buy him goodwill, based on attitude alone. He burned that bridge...
Sure, however he is a Siglent owner and user therefore any feedback need be received and considered despite it is sometimes confusing to decypher.
For those that use English as their 2nd language this always a challenge.
-
hpw speculated about imaginary concerns without any evidence such problems actually exist.
Agreed, they are imaginary concerns, which however seem quite plausible for the imaginary scope class they refer to. Tautech was mistaken to claim that Siglent already has an osciallator which addresses them.
Not sure what I did to ruffle your feathers.
You may not be aware of it, but you do this often: Someone has received pushback and counter-arguments, usually after they have voiced criticism or concerns about Siglent. And then you come in, not adding any arguments or information, but bashing or insulting that guy who his already on his back foot. It's not very endearing behaviour.
-
My suggestion to you is to browse quickly through his posts to get a feeling what kind of language is used in majority of them.
He fires off opinions on a whim, rarely verify information and is very rude and dismissive in general.
Fact that he is right sometimes does not buy him goodwill, based on attitude alone. He burned that bridge...
I do not like hpw's style either. But if we want to focus on facts for a moment, hpw had voiced specific concerns about clock jitter and phase noise (in the context of future scopes with very high acquisition rates). So tautech's datasheet reference was missing the mark, and so was Josh's usual "Someone caught a blow, let me give them another kick in the teeth" response.
Thank you for explanation.
Now let me explain better what I said.
Really, go and read. He didn't "express concern" he has been doing this snarky, rude, derogatory comments for a long time.
He is always like that. He keeps repeating this even for low end scopes. Never he explained what kind of earth shattering cutting edge science he does that requires that kind of specifications...
-
Tis in the datasheets for the instrument it fits:
RTFM / RTFDS?? We have to read to get info now?? :palm: :palm: :palm:
I would curse more quietly in your place, since you apparently did not read hpw's question. ::)
My suggestion to you is to browse quickly through his posts to get a feeling what kind of language is used in majority of them.
He fires off opinions on a whim, rarely verify information and is very rude and dismissive in general.
Fact that he is right sometimes does not buy him goodwill, based on attitude alone. He burned that bridge...
Sure, however he is a Siglent owner and user therefore any feedback need be received and considered despite it is sometimes confusing to decypher.
For those that use English as their 2nd language this always a challenge.
Yes Rob,
And as you know, on many occasions I to tried to explain something when I felt I could provide some information. But on many occasions he does exactly what he did here: he doesn't ask for help but just shoots of a bunch of insults and drops the mike.
In which case I can chose to reply with some comeback (which ends up being negative experience, because he never gets the message of needed change, and I get pushback from others for "patronizing" him or whatever else) or I can simply ignore it because he didn't really ask for any response. And I leave to the rest to figure out on their own what is going on.
We can do only as much.
-
I had already announced that I would briefly introduce the SDS3000X HD when I received it, but that I would not go into any more detail or create separate topics about it.
If some of you were wondering why, well, the reasons are now obvious.
I've already gotten out of the habit of writing anything about the 800X HD.
At the moment, there's no point and no more fun.
Too bad.
-
I had already announced that I would briefly introduce the SDS3000X HD when I received it, but that I would not go into any more detail or create separate topics about it.
If some of you were wondering why, well, the reasons are now obvious.
I've already gotten out of the habit of writing anything about the 800X HD.
At the moment, there's no point and no more fun.
Too bad.
Have you regretted getting a SDS800X HD as a stopgap/filler until your SDS3034X HD arrived ?
-
Agreed, they are imaginary concerns, which however seem quite plausible for the imaginary scope class they refer to. Tautech was mistaken to claim that Siglent already has an osciallator which addresses them.
No he actually wasn't wrong. That OCXO is high stability/low phase noise. It is just datasheet has not specified it's phase noise.
LeCroy actually does not specify timebase phase noise in datasheet HPW points to either. They specify sample clock jitter (with digital clocks we talk about jitter) which is more complex metric, because it includes clock stability, clock distribution influences and all the imperfections in ADC (in this case folding/interpolating/interleaving types that have it's own problems)..
So basically, he talks about something that is not really "a thing" and then insults the factory of being "insert any of his derogatory terms here". All this points to a person that does not really understand it it as well as they think they do, but that never stopped them from being an ass.
-
Have you regretted getting a SDS800X HD as a stopgap/filler until your SDS3034X HD arrived ?
Not for a second, Rob.
-
Not sure what I did to ruffle your feathers.
You may not be aware of it, but you do this often: Someone has received pushback and counter-arguments, usually after they have voiced criticism or concerns about Siglent. And then you come in, not adding any arguments or information, but bashing or insulting that guy who his already on his back foot. It's not very endearing behaviour.
Perhaps from your perspective, but I certainly disagree. I do say things about Siglent when people make bullshit claims, but I certainly do add info/supportive arguments. I don't rely on ad hominem attacks such as you have. You should turn down the sensitivity knob a little bit and stop reading into my posts things that aren't there.
-
I had already announced that I would briefly introduce the SDS3000X HD when I received it, but that I would not go into any more detail or create separate topics about it.
If some of you were wondering why, well, the reasons are now obvious.
I've already gotten out of the habit of writing anything about the 800X HD.
At the moment, there's no point and no more fun.
Too bad.
I don't find the reasons any more obvious than they were back in 2020 when I first registered in the forum.
I do find it strange that we haven't had even a snippet of info on the 3000X-HD, even though 2N3055 and you have it, AFAIK. I guess it is obvious, although I don't seem to grasp the evidence. In any case, it's not like we are entitled to any kind of information.
Maybe we'll get to see something from Dave. I wish Siglent would send one to Sahriar or Joe Smith, but I guess a "free" oscilloscope is marketing allowance, and their channels are not widespread enough to warrant the expenses.
-
Maybe we'll get to see something from Dave.
As I said, I can't imagine it.
Siglent sees the 3000 series as a kind of entry into their "Pro" series, even if the "X" suggests otherwise.
I imagine their expectations of a review are accordingly.
Taking the thing apart and commenting on it, then playing around with it a bit to get the 20...25min full won't be enough to send a copy for it.
Of course, I could be completely wrong and he would have received one long ago if it was available.
Because that's the point, you can't get it at the moment, the last updated date was the end of May and I think even that is at risk.
-
The new to come 6&8 GHz models ?
First time I see BW references inside Siglent's FW going up to 16GHz !!!
This means, any 20..40Gs gear to come. Than we go with Bodnarpulse to the real 30ps risetime :-DD
Requires any better based oscillator & synthesizers as in fs... just look at LeCroy HD series. To get any trusted Jitter figures.
Already available. :P
https://siglentna.com/product/precision-frequency-reference/
(https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/10M_OCXO_L.png)
$1199 seems a tad steep.
How much would it raise the price to cover the NRE, COGS, and profit margin needed to add a 10 MHz Ref input to a scope? Once there is a Ref input customers could add a ~$200 GPSDO, and with a distribution amplifier (another ~$100) and some cables the customers could use the GPSDO to not only give clock to multiple devices on the bench / in the lab, but also synchronize all the clocks for all of those devices. Test equipment that is supposed to measure frequency as well as amplitude could easily be enhanced if 10 MHz Ref inputs became prevalent.
-
$1199 seems a tad steep.
Personally, I agree. That's way too expensive.
Of course, R&S thinks it should cost more: https://www.testequity.com/product/31151-1-RTO-B4 (https://www.testequity.com/product/31151-1-RTO-B4)
Rigol also thinks it should cost more: https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/OCXO-D08/Options/ (https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/OCXO-D08/Options/)
They're all cuckoo.
-
The scopes this thread is about don't have 10Mhz reference inputs, so I feel it's pointless to talk about it here.
There should be a separate thread for that.
-
The scopes this thread is about don't have 10Mhz reference inputs, so I feel it's pointless to talk about it here.
There should be a separate thread for that.
Which of the scopes in this thread use a $1199 precision frequency reference? (Just commenting on what is already in this thread). And fwiw, maybe the scopes in this thread should have a 10 MHz Ref input.
-
Hello,
I am wondering about the delivery times for the SDS3034X HD from various companies.
Welectron: 3-7 working days
Meilhaus: 3-10 working days
Evision: 3-4 weeks
And
Batronix: 41-60 days
Are these just random meaningless numbers?
I would like to have a reliable indication
Best regards
egonotto
PS: Does this mean that some of these companies have not yet sold a single SDS3000X HD and therefore have no idea about the delivery problems?
-
Welectron: 3-7 working days
Meilhaus: 3-10 working days
Evision: 3-4 weeks
From what we've been reading, I would say these ones are looking for customers.
Batronix: 41-60 days
This one is trying to respond to its orders.
-
Hello,
Batronix has now reduced the waiting time for the SDS3034X HD to 10 to 30 days. Three hours ago it was still 41 to 60 days.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
I am wondering about the delivery times for the SDS3034X HD from various companies.
Welectron: 3-7 working days
Meilhaus: 3-10 working days
Evision: 3-4 weeks
And
Batronix: 41-60 days
Are these just random meaningless numbers?
I would like to have a reliable indication
Best regards
egonotto
PS: Does this mean that some of these companies have not yet sold a single SDS3000X HD and therefore have no idea about the delivery problems?
Give them a call, and ask, as it can be both they are fishing orders, but certainly, also the chance that there are limited quantities and variables among these resellers that influence their lead time for a given new order..
-
The app contains references to a new Siglent device's internal name:
HULUWA_2CH
HULUWA_4CH
The new to come 6&8 GHz models ?
https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds7000a/ (https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds7000a/)
The word HULUWA can be find on the pcb of the 800X HD...
-
The word HULUWA can be find on the pcb of the 800X HD...
"Huluwa" (葫芦娃) is a term in Chinese that refers to the "Calabash Brothers," which is the title of a classic Chinese animated television series. The series is based on the folklore tale of the same name and follows the adventures of seven brothers, each with unique powers, who use their abilities to fight evil forces and protect their village.
-
800, 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000, 6000, 7000....
7 brothers.. ;D
-
LOL, right ! :D
By the way, I got a message today, my scope will be arriving soon, this time it really is "mine". 8)
-
My supplier got a message from Siglent that the delivery of the SDS3034X-HD is delayed, again. They estimate that it will arrive some where half/end of June! >:(
I was ready to cancel, but they offered a SDS2000x-HD for me as a loaner until the SDS3034X-HD arrives. I've agreed to it and it arrived today. It is a SDS2504X-HD. This way i can familiarize my self with this scope, which should have a similar UI and functionality as the SDS3034X-HD.
-
which should have a similar UI and functionality as the SDS3034X-HD.
Not quite. ;)
But yes, a 2504X HD is a nice way to pass the time until the 3034X HD arrives, no question, I know that... 8)
They estimate that it will arrive some where half/end of June!
That's what I thought.
Firstly because Batronix has set the time back to 41-60 days, and secondly because certain internal processes (nothing to do with production in terms of component shortages) are not due to be completed until the summer.
-
I stumbled across it by chance, I didn't even know this brochure...
Including comparisons with the competition. ;)
But I didn't know that either:
USB2.0 for the 3000X HD is also listed under the protocol options.... :scared:
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/24_03_28/highres_Customer_Intro.pdf
-
I stumbled across it by chance, I didn't even know this brochure...
Proving SDS2000X HD is coming in dark clothes !
We have some large posters from Siglent for an upcoming exhibition also showing the five 12bit model ranges in dark clothes too.
-
Except that the 2K HD is not in the listed on in the comparison Martin posted. At least not in the overview at the end.
-
Except that the 2K HD is not in the listed on in the comparison Martin posted. At least not in the overview at the end.
The poster shows 5 12bit models in dark clothes.
SDS800X HD
SDS1000X HD With probe sense
SDS2000X HD With probe sense
SDS3000X HD With probe sense and active probe support
SDS7000A With probe sense and active probe support
-
I can open a trade soon, arrived earlier... 8)
No, the demo unit will of course be returned - soon.
Very good:
The good probes and a complete calibration protocol are also included with "my" scope - so not an exclusive matter for demo units. :-+
And just calibrated 3 weeks ago, so a fresh unit. ;)
Later I will update the firmware, because the scope does not yet have the 1st release version.
This is important for other buyers, so check immediately after receipt.
So, now I'm happy...I don't know how you feel about such things, but I've been fiddling with the scope for the last 3 weeks - because it wasn't really mine.
Now it's time to get started... 8)
-
Damn, you must be the only guy in the western world with 2 on the bench!!!!!!!!! :-DD
-
I thought so too, others are waiting, I have two... :-X
But there must have been 65 others in the world who were happy, according to my box...
-
there must have been 65 others in the world who were happy, according to my box...
-
Oho, Archer entered zhe room... :-DD
-
I thought so too, others are waiting, I have two... :-X
But there must have been 65 others in the world who were happy, according to my box...
Sadly no, box numbering has nothing to do with specific units or their type as it only signifies how many boxes were in a shipment.
Eg, for the little DSO's, we can get them 4 to a box or each double boxed where that would be 3 extra in a shipment.
-
Ah, OK. :)
-
So, the "Demo Unit" is now on its way back.
So if anyone gets a message next week that their scope is on its way.... ;D
But I can say one thing, both scopes are absolutely identical according to the system info, there are only a few trial days off the options...
Tomorrow I will have a look at a few things, including the wfms/s and the analyzing gate (the most obvious difference to the other scope before).
Then I saw that there is only this "calibration void" sticker under one of the feet, the other sticker doesn't exist..... Am I being strong? I think so. 8)
Next week the test with the LPA10 adapter and one or two current clamps from work.
-
Am I being strong? I think so. 8)
If you mysteriously happen to find photos of the inside of the scope, that would be okay. 😉
-
;D
The only thing that would interest me would be what type of ADC is installed.
And how many of them.
OK, probably two, because you get the full 4GSa/s with one channel from each ADC.
So 1+3 or 2+4.
-
@ Martin
tracking number please? Just asking because I spoke with my neighbor and he knows a bloke who knows an other bloke who has a friend who knows a bloke.
-
Then I saw that there is only this "calibration void" sticker under one of the feet, the other sticker doesn't exist..... Am I being strong? I think so. 8)
Yeah nobody would care about calibration voiding, but on the warranty conditions on Siglent site there is a condition that loose warranty:
"5.4 The product was opened or took apart by anyone who is not from SIGLENT Maintenance Center or an authorized maintenance branch."
Or breaking this seal will void this condition ...
Anyway I have broke this seal on my scope and taken apart :)
If you can put here some screenshots(from web interface) with waveforms from SDG2000X AWG I will appreciate. Thank you!
-
No problem, what do you want to see?
-
No problem, what do you want to see?
Any waveform, in stop and running mode.
To compare with my 1000X-HD display mode.
Thank you!
-
Something like this ?
(sinewave, squarewave, ramp, 1Mhz, 0dBm, 50Ohm)
-
Something like this ?
(sinewave, squarewave, ramp, 1Mhz, 0dBm, 50Ohm)
Yes! Thank you!
-
Something like this ?
(sinewave, squarewave, ramp, 1Mhz, 0dBm, 50Ohm)
Proper single-pixel vertical resolution, as expected of course. That will probably be the most pronounced difference compared to the SDS1000X HD and its smaller 800 sibling (for these test signals).
-
Do you see something that I don't?
I still have the 800, I'll take the same pictures again.
-
Do you see something that I don't?
I still have the 800, I'll take the same pictures again.
Yes, I see doubled-up vertical pixels with the 800, most noticeable in stop mode and with flat slopes. I think these were confirmed by performa01; there is limited block RAM in the FPGAs which are used in the small scopes.
-
OK, now I have understood it and have two sections (each 300% enlarged), left 800, right 3000.
-
Oh well...
You don't have to enlarge anything and/or put it in stop mode.
It is enough to change the vertical resolution from 100mV/div to 500mV/div.
Note also the frequency counter.
-
Oh well...
You don't have to enlarge anything and/or put it in stop mode.
It is enough to change the vertical resolution from 100mV/div to 500mV/div.
Yes, that's what I meant when I mentioned "flat slopes". A couple of menths ago, a few people have pushed back when I grumbled a bit about the vertical resolution compromise in the small HD scopes, and have claimed that they can never see it in practice. But when looking at slowly rising signals, or e.g. at the settling of a square wave after its edge, the stairsteps caused by the limited resolution can become quite obvious.
Nevertheless the 800X HD is a great scope with amazing bang for the buck. I am less convinced about the 1000X HD, with its bigger screen but still compromised vertical resolution.
-
The SML01 is allowed to sweep around a bit... ;)
The first run doesn't look too bad, but I'll let it go for another spin.
-
As expected, the bandwidth is not really 350Mhz, so if I upgrade my scope, it could be a bit difficult with the 1.1Ghz generator.
But then I don't care... 8)
After all the sweeping, the scope has warmed up long enough and now I'm going to do a self-calibration, as I've done a firmware update before.
If anything else changes as a result of the calibration, I will report accordingly.
-
465MHz is pretty impressive for a device pretending to be limited to 350MHz. 😉
-
I have not yet seen a scope that "goes down" strictly at the specified bandwidth.
It's the same with the 800 and also with your 2000. ;)
-
Of course, but usually it's like 40 to 70MHz above the stated BW...though I've never tried on the fake lower limits. 😉
-
That's right, I just looked at my measurements on the 800 again.
I'll just accept it.
After the self-calibration, which took about 45 minutes, nothing has changed.
The fact that you can change the colors is just as good as the fact that you can now position the axis label left/right/center.
-
That's right, I just looked at my measurements on the 800 again.
I'll just accept it.
804X HD gives you the best deal: 37% free extra bandwidth! ;)
-
What is minimum rising/falling edge trigger sensitivity level on SDS1000X HD and SDS3000X HD?
On some other scopes trigger level needs to be at least 0.25-0.3 div (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-hds-200-handheld-oscilloscope-w-builtin-dmmawg/msg5507188/#msg5507188) from min/max signal level.
-
The trigger sensitivity of a fully digital trgger system is determined by its noise immunity.
The Siglent SDS3000X HD spcifies 0.26 divisions (0.33 div with noise reject on) for vertical gains >10 mV/div.
Specification on SDS800/1000X HD is less detailed and just says 0.6 divisions.
I've checked the SDS824X HD (which is representative for the 1000X HD) and its trigger sensitivity is actually 0.27 divisions. Indication for this is a correct and stable trigger frequency readout.
See attached screenshot: SDS824X HD_Trig_edge_1MHz_0.27div
-
Thanks for clarification and test.
As I understand from manuals, SDSx000X HD range have analog trigger system (not digital with selectable threshold) and thus trigger sensitivity comparable with other analog trigger scopes (8 or 12-bit). I was just expecting slightly more sensitivity on 12-bit lower noise scope.
Not an issue, just a specification to be aware of.
-
Thanks for clarification and test.
As I understand from manuals, SDSx000X HD range have analog trigger system (not digital with selectable threshold)
Very wrong.
Triggering system is fully digital. Where on earth did you find that wrong information?
-
Thanks for clarification and test.
As I understand from manuals, SDSx000X HD range have analog trigger system (not digital with selectable threshold) and thus trigger sensitivity comparable with other analog trigger scopes (8 or 12-bit). I was just expecting slightly more sensitivity on 12-bit lower noise scope.
I don't think there is any remotely modern digital oscilloscope around which still has an analog trigger system - except for the external trigger input, quite obviously. So I wonder what "other analog trigger scopes (8 or 12-bit)" you want to to compare. Apart from that, analog triggers usually were even less sensitive.
The number of bits in the ADC has nothing to do with trigger sensitivity. As I've already explained, trigger sensitivity is defined by noise immunity. Also known as hysteresis. Analog trigger systems needed that as well of course, otherwise a clean trigger cannot be obtained. The noise reduction in the trigger engine is nothing else but an increased hysteresis.
-
Sorry if I mistaken anyone w.r.t. digital/analog triggering. Digital/analog triggering is not mentioned explicitly in most descriptions, I made wrong assumption on this.
Siglent HD scopes have digital triggering with many trigger types, but am I missing something here w.r.t. name "digital triggering"? From SDS3000X HD manual, pages 34-35:Trigger coupling: Coupling mode of the current trigger source. It is only valid when the trigger source is C1~C4, EXT, or EXT/5
...
LFR: The signal is coupled through a capacitive high-pass filter network, DC is rejected and low frequencies are attenuated
Does this applies to external trigger only? Is there physical filter for CH1-CH4 trigger?
I consider (full) digital triggering as implemented in scopes like R&S RTO, MXO4/5 where it is possible to set very low (<0.1 div) hysteresis threshold, ADC data stream is crunched to extract trigger events even in high resolution mode, HF reject filter is user tunable, etc.
Do Siglent scopes have some digital triggering specific features as in R&S scopes (i.e. trigger in high resolution mode or change hysteresis to low value)?
-
Sorry if I mistaken anyone w.r.t. digital/analog triggering. Digital/analog triggering is not mentioned explicitly in most descriptions, I made wrong assumption on this.
Siglent HD scopes have digital triggering with many trigger types, but am I missing something here w.r.t. name "digital triggering"? From SDS3000X HD manual, pages 34-35:Trigger coupling: Coupling mode of the current trigger source. It is only valid when the trigger source is C1~C4, EXT, or EXT/5
...
LFR: The signal is coupled through a capacitive high-pass filter network, DC is rejected and low frequencies are attenuated
Does this applies to external trigger only? Is there physical filter for CH1-CH4 trigger?
I consider (full) digital triggering as implemented in scopes like R&S RTO, MXO4/5 where it is possible to set very low (<0.1 div) hysteresis threshold, ADC data stream is crunched to extract trigger events even in high resolution mode, HF reject filter is user tunable, etc.
Do Siglent scopes have some digital triggering specific features as in R&S scopes (i.e. trigger in high resolution mode or change hysteresis to low value)?
Increasing sensitivity reduces trigger hysteresis, pure and simple.
Of the many types of trigger types available some permit setting a qualifying trigger to within a range.
We can also use Vertical zoom to finely adjust triggering when that might matter.
If that's insufficient, Zone trigger, available in some models allows us to set tight constraints where the scope must trigger, or use the 2 Zone triggers to further tighten triggering.
-
Sorry if I mistaken anyone w.r.t. digital/analog triggering. Digital/analog triggering is not mentioned explicitly in most descriptions, I made wrong assumption on this.
Siglent HD scopes have digital triggering with many trigger types, but am I missing something here w.r.t. name "digital triggering"? From SDS3000X HD manual, pages 34-35:Trigger coupling: Coupling mode of the current trigger source. It is only valid when the trigger source is C1~C4, EXT, or EXT/5
...
LFR: The signal is coupled through a capacitive high-pass filter network, DC is rejected and low frequencies are attenuated
Does this applies to external trigger only? Is there physical filter for CH1-CH4 trigger?
I consider (full) digital triggering as implemented in scopes like R&S RTO, MXO4/5 where it is possible to set very low (<0.1 div) hysteresis threshold, ADC data stream is crunched to extract trigger events even in high resolution mode, HF reject filter is user tunable, etc.
Do Siglent scopes have some digital triggering specific features as in R&S scopes (i.e. trigger in high resolution mode or change hysteresis to low value)?
You are confusing details of how one manufacturer implemented some functions with a concept of how digital triggering work.
Siglent (and many others) use fully digital triggering.
It is digital because it works in digital domain, on sampled data from ADC.
Analog triggering has physical analog comparator in schematic, that is detecting where edge is.
Some other scopes, like Keysight MSOX3000T/G has hybrid system, where they have analog comparator for Edge trigger but use digital trigger for other types.
Other things R&S implements are just something they implemented in their implementation of full digital triggering.
So your sentence "I consider (full) digital triggering as implemented in scopes..." is not really a thing.
It is like saying "I consider electric car to be fully electric car only if it has 17" multimedia screen like Tesla".
No, fully electric car is any car that has 4 wheels and only electric motor and battery as sole source of motion. Any other equipment is just equipment on fully electric car. It defines features, class, price but not the fact it is fully electric car.
-
Of the many types of trigger types available some permit setting a qualifying trigger to within a range.
We can also use Vertical zoom to finely adjust triggering when that might matter.
Is there a video of how vertical zoom can allow trigger level adjustment?
I am interested triggering signal where small amplitude square wave pulse train is riding on top of much higher DC level. Lets say <10MHz BW max, DC coupling only, 6-10 div DC signal and <0.1-0.2 div square wave. How sensitive rising edge trigger can be in such case?
-
Of the many types of trigger types available some permit setting a qualifying trigger to within a range.
We can also use Vertical zoom to finely adjust triggering when that might matter.
Is there a video of how vertical zoom can allow trigger level adjustment?
While vertical zoom can help to adjust the trigger level more precisely, it certainly doesn’t change the hysteresis, hence the trigger sensitivity. Naturally the trigger works only on physical channels, not zoom or math channels.
I am interested triggering signal where small amplitude square wave pulse train is riding on top of much higher DC level. Lets say <10MHz BW max, DC coupling only, 6-10 div DC signal and <0.1-0.2 div square wave. How sensitive rising edge trigger can be in such case?
Okay, that’s finally a practical use case – even though in this case we would just make use of the DC-offset compensation by the vertical position control and use a higher input gain to get a sufficient signal amplitude to trigger on. This is a 10 mV pulse riding on a 1 V DC signal:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/?action=dlattach;attach=2227813;image)
SDS2504X HD_Trig_DC1V
But there could be another scenario, where a tiny pulse rides on a square wave with much higher amplitude.
The following example combines a 600 mV (6 div) square wave at 100 Hz with a 1 ms wide 10 mV (0.1 div) pulse at a repetition rate of 1 Hz.
The example uses window trigger to reliably catch the rising edge of the small pulse:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/?action=dlattach;attach=2227819;image)
SDS2504X HD_Trig_0.1 div
This experiment has been run on an SDS2504X HD.
EDIT: Here’s a better example, with the tiny pulse sitting in the middle of the square top and using plain edge triggering:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/?action=dlattach;attach=2227831;image)
SDS2504X HD_Trig_0.1 div_Edge
-
what device did you use to generate these signals ?
-
what device did you use to generate these signals ?
It was an SDG6052X using the wave combine feature.
-
Hi everyone, is the hardware of SDS1000X HD and SDS3000X HD the same? thanks.
adc and main FPGA different?
-
Hi everyone, is the hardware of SDS1000X HD and SDS3000X HD the same? thanks.
Very different actually.
-
Actually, they reduced the hardware of SDS1000x HD a lot, I didn't like it very much.
-
Actually, they reduced the hardware of SDS1000x HD a lot, I didn't like it very much.
The price difference might have tipped you off. ::)
-
Actually, they reduced the hardware of SDS1000x HD a lot, I didn't like it very much.
I don't understand correlation of your two posts...
-
Actually, they reduced the hardware of SDS1000x HD a lot, I didn't like it very much.
Reduced from what ? :-//
-
Actually, they reduced the hardware of SDS1000x HD a lot, I didn't like it very much.
Unfortunately, this is the wrong approach.
The 1000X series was previously the entry series with good but limited models that reached up to 1Gsa/s and 14Mpts memory.
Now the 1000X HD has come onto the market.
It is so improved that it is no longer comparable to the predecessors of the 1000 series.
50Ohm inputs, autosense probes, 100Mpt memory, touchscreen, 10" display, more decoders, 4 channels of math, digital filters, etc, etc.
The 1000X HD is not reduced, it is the best 1000X model.
To compare it with the 3000X HD is simply not correct.
-
@Martin72, you are right about the unfairness of the comparison. Actually, I will order sds3000x hd and I am afraid that it will be the same hardware as sds1000x hd, thanks.
-
@Martin72, you are right about the unfairness of the comparison. Actually, I will order sds3000x hd and I am afraid that it will be the same hardware as sds1000x hd, thanks.
:-DD
Nothing like the same !
C'mon study the datasheets.
-
Hi,
I will order sds3000x hd and I am afraid that it will be the same hardware as sds1000x hd
400Mpt maximum memory, 4GSa/s maximum sample rate (at least 2GSa/s), 350Mhz-1Ghz bandwidth, active probe interface, 1GBit LAN, USB3.0, integrated LA, 200000/890000wfms/s updaterate rate, more decoder, etc, etc...
No, the worry is unfounded. ;)
-
Oh well...
You don't have to enlarge anything and/or put it in stop mode.
It is enough to change the vertical resolution from 100mV/div to 500mV/div.
Note also the frequency counter.
hello,
is the display of 1000HD same as 800HD?
-
hello,
is the display of 1000HD same as 800HD?
No, 1k is 10", 800 is 7"
-
hello,
is the display of 1000HD same as 800HD?
No, 1k is 10", 800 is 7"
thanks, my question was about the pixelation:
OK, now I have understood it and have two sections (each 300% enlarged), left 800, right 3000.
-
thanks, my question was about the pixelation:
OK, now I have understood it and have two sections (each 300% enlarged), left 800, right 3000.
It's something you can see if you go looking for it.
However in real use it's hardly ever a problem.
You could try a SDS802X HD @ just $339 then flick it if you can't work with it.
-
It's something you can see if you go looking for it.
However in real use it's hardly ever a problem.
It does become quite noticeable for signals with flattish slopes. As shown in Martin72's post which directly followed the one mentioned above:
Oh well...
You don't have to enlarge anything and/or put it in stop mode.
It is enough to change the vertical resolution from 100mV/div to 500mV/div.
It's an acceptable limitation for the 7" SDS800X HD. But if I had paid more than twice the money for an SDS1000X HD to get the 10" screen (plus 50 Ohm inputs), only to be shown those stair steps more clearly, I would probably be disappointed.
-
It's something you can see if you go looking for it.
However in real use it's hardly ever a problem.
It does become quite noticeable for signals with flattish slopes. As shown in Martin72's post which directly followed the one mentioned above:
Oh well...
You don't have to enlarge anything and/or put it in stop mode.
It is enough to change the vertical resolution from 100mV/div to 500mV/div.
It's an acceptable limitation for the 7" SDS800X HD. But if I had paid more than twice the money for an SDS1000X HD to get the 10" screen (plus 50 Ohm inputs), only to be shown those stair steps more clearly, I would probably be disappointed.
thank you, that answered my question.
i also find the related discussion around page 11
-
It's something you can see if you go looking for it.
However in real use it's hardly ever a problem.
It does become quite noticeable for signals with flattish slopes. As shown in Martin72's post which directly followed the one mentioned above:
Oh well...
You don't have to enlarge anything and/or put it in stop mode.
It is enough to change the vertical resolution from 100mV/div to 500mV/div.
It's an acceptable limitation for the 7" SDS800X HD. But if I had paid more than twice the money for an SDS1000X HD to get the 10" screen (plus 50 Ohm inputs), only to be shown those stair steps more clearly, I would probably be disappointed.
One need also consider with the prevalence of DDS signal generators today vs the analog of old, these DSO's are capable of showing modern equipment signal generation artifacts.
This might be a good test to do.......
-
One need also consider with the prevalence of DDS signal generators today vs the analog of old, these DSO's are capable of showing modern equipment signal generation artifacts.
This might be a good test to do.......
You mean, those stair steps shown by Martin (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5504758/#msg5504758) might be real signal components caused by a digital signal generator? No way. (a) The step height on the SDS800X HD screen corresponds to approx. 8 bit resolution only -- the SDG2042X is "slightly" better than that. (b) The SDS3000X HD, which uses its full screen resolution, shows a smooth slope as expected.
-
Yeah well from Siglent's own website blurb, 14 vs 16bit = SDG1000X vs SDG2000X
Everyone pull out their old linear FG's and compare.
(https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/5-2.png)
I wonder if my old HP still works. :horse:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp-8654b-10-520-mhz-sig-gen-light-teardown/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp-8654b-10-520-mhz-sig-gen-light-teardown/)
-
Yeah well from Siglent's own website blurb, 14 vs 16bit = SDG1000X vs SDG2000X
Sure. But that's a red herring in the context of the cut-in-half vertical resolution for trace rendering in the SDS800 and 1000X HD scopes. The steps which are visible on-screen, especially notable for traces with flat slopes, have nothing to do with the actual signal but are a limitation of these scopes.
-
Yeah well from Siglent's own website blurb, 14 vs 16bit = SDG1000X vs SDG2000X
Sure. But that's a red herring in the context of the cut-in-half vertical resolution for trace rendering in the SDS800 and 1000X HD scopes. The steps which are visible on-screen, especially notable for traces with flat slopes, have nothing to do with the actual signal but are a limitation of these scopes.
This is not a limitation, it's just an aesthetic issue. I'm using the scope very well. It's not good looking but from usability perspective the scope main function is not affected in any way. You should stay with Rigol if this is important for you.
As a parenthesis I am keeping Rigol DHO1000HD.
-
This is not a limitation, it's just an aesthetic issue. I'm using the scope very well.
Of course it is a (technical) limitation: The scope is not able to make full use of its screen resolution when rendering traces.
Whether you feel that it is affecting your use of the scope is another matter. As I have said before, I personally find it acceptable on the SDS800X HD -- but consider it a poor design tradeoff for the SDS1000X HD, where Siglent charges a heavy markup for the larger screen (and 50 Ohm intputs).
-
... As I have said before, I personally find it acceptable on the SDS800X HD -- but consider it a poor design tradeoff for the SDS1000X HD, where Siglent charges a heavy markup for the larger screen (and 50 Ohm intputs).
For me a 7" scope is a no go for this days. Adding that 800X-HD has an ugly and old design made me to choose 1000X-HD over 800X-HD despite the higher price.
At that moment I've could buy 800X-HD, and also 2000X-HD but my choose was 1000X-HD and I didn't find any reason to regret, but on the contrary.
Regards
-
This is not a limitation, it's just an aesthetic issue. I'm using the scope very well.
Of course it is a (technical) limitation: The scope is not able to make full use of its screen resolution when rendering traces.
Whether you feel that it is affecting your use of the scope is another matter. As I have said before, I personally find it acceptable on the SDS800X HD -- but consider it a poor design tradeoff for the SDS1000X HD, where Siglent charges a heavy markup for the larger screen (and 50 Ohm intputs).
i wanted to pay an extra if the 1000hd had not the blobby pixels. 2000hd is too expensive & not justified for my usage.
maybe i can live with the 512x300 resolution... my old tektronix is 320x240 :D
does it have the same double pixel behavior in fft mode?
-
does it have the same double pixel behavior in fft mode?
No, all Math functions (including FFT) are rendered at the full vertical resolution. Only traces from the physical channels are limited to the double-pixels.
-
This is not a limitation, it's just an aesthetic issue. I'm using the scope very well.
Of course it is a (technical) limitation: The scope is not able to make full use of its screen resolution when rendering traces.
Whether you feel that it is affecting your use of the scope is another matter. As I have said before, I personally find it acceptable on the SDS800X HD -- but consider it a poor design tradeoff for the SDS1000X HD, where Siglent charges a heavy markup for the larger screen (and 50 Ohm intputs).
i wanted to pay an extra if the 1000hd had not the blobby pixels. 2000hd is too expensive & not justified for my usage.
maybe i can live with the 512x300 resolution... my old tektronix is 320x240 :D
does it have the same double pixel behavior in fft mode?
You should make an effort and try SDS1000xHD yourself.
It's good chance you will not notice the pixels at all.
When you are measuring signals, there is always more than one pixel width of noise.
Scope is not 512x300 resolution. Only trace is double pixel. And that is already much thinner trace than on any old 8 bit scope.
When pedants talk about his they usually have to show you 2-4X times magnified images to be able to explain people what they mean.
It is technically there, but in practice you wouldn't know it if nobody told you about it.
People only noticed it when they were looking into captured screen images on a PC.
So if you can, try it and decide for yourself.
It is still best scope for the money. On SDS800xHD, I feel screen is small for me (bad eyes..) and I miss 50Ω inputs occasionally. Basically if I went for 1000xHD it would be just right.
If you don't need 12 bit, there is also an option of SDS2000X-Plus. It is a 500MHz scope design and very powerful in its own right. It is also 10" touch screen, 50Ω inputs, and higher sample rate in 4ch mode....
Both are quantum leap to your old scope. SDS800xHD is too...
-
...
When pedants talk about his they usually have to show you 2-4X times magnified images to be able to explain people what they mean.
It is technically there, but in practice you wouldn't know it if nobody told you about it.
People only noticed it when they were looking into captured screen images on a PC.
...
True, and if try to zoom on the scope screen you get this, and this is excellent in my opinion.
[attachimg=1]
-
That zoom looks great. It looks less great when zoomed on the computer, but anything does when zoomed past its captured resolution.
-
That zoom looks great. It looks less great when zoomed on the computer, but anything does when zoomed past its captured resolution.
That is my point. :-+
-
When pedants talk about his they usually have to show you 2-4X times magnified images to be able to explain people what they mean.
It is technically there, but in practice you wouldn't know it if nobody told you about it.
People only noticed it when they were looking into captured screen images on a PC.
Why would you say that, after Martin72 just shared screenshots which show the very obvious steps on a ramp signal without any magnification? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5504758/#msg5504758 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5504758/#msg5504758)
And why do you see the need to defame users who criticize this aspect of the SDS800/1000X HD as "pedants"? Can't you just accept the fact that even Siglent products might have some weaknesses, and that it is ok to write about these? They are still great scopes. Well, the 800 is; I am less convinced that the 1000 strikes the right balance.
if try to zoom on the scope screen you get this, and this is excellent in my opinion.
That's a very valid point. Nobody is debating that the entry-level HD scopes are "proper" 12 bit scopes, and that you do get value from the ADC resolution via the vertical zoom feature. (Which is integrated into the scope UI very nicely indeed!)
-
When pedants talk about his they usually have to show you 2-4X times magnified images to be able to explain people what they mean.
It is technically there, but in practice you wouldn't know it if nobody told you about it.
People only noticed it when they were looking into captured screen images on a PC.
Why would you say that, after Martin72 just shared screenshots which show the very obvious steps on a ramp signal without any magnification? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5504758/#msg5504758 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5504758/#msg5504758)
And why do you see the need to defame users who criticize this aspect of the SDS800/1000X HD as "pedants"? Can't you just accept the fact that even Siglent products might have some weaknesses, and that it is ok to write about these? They are still great scopes. Well, the 800 is; I am less convinced that the 1000 strikes the right balance.
if try to zoom on the scope screen you get this, and this is excellent in my opinion.
That's a very valid point. Nobody is debating that the entry-level HD scopes are "proper" 12 bit scopes, and that you do get value from the ADC resolution via the vertical zoom feature. (Which is integrated into the scope UI very nicely indeed!)
Because there must heard other opinions than yours.
A person that actually owns a scope tells you that he doesn't mind it but you keep talking about it like it is important. It is important only to your OCD obsession.
You don't even own a scope and somehow your opinion is more important than real experience of real users.
And while I don't want to change you and stop you from repeating ad nauseam your pet peeve, no matter how boring it is by now, you certainly won't tell me or anybody else what we are allowed to say.
Every time you post your OPINON how you think this is important, I will post my opinion how it is irrelevant to actual use and utility of the scope...
Welcome to right of free speech.
-
You don't even own a scope and somehow your opinion is more important than real experience of real users.
I own the SDS800X HD, and for some signals find the limited vertical resolution quite noticeable even on its small screen. For not-so-steep slopes for example, and the settling phase of square waves.
Every time you post your OPINON how you think this is important, I will post my opinion how it is irrelevant to actual use and utility of the scope...
Welcome to right of free speech.
I have no issue with you voicing your opinion, but found the "pedant" label quite unnecessary. I don't call you a "fanboy" either.
-
This is not a limitation, it's just an aesthetic issue. I'm using the scope very well.
Of course it is a (technical) limitation: The scope is not able to make full use of its screen resolution when rendering traces.
Whether you feel that it is affecting your use of the scope is another matter. As I have said before, I personally find it acceptable on the SDS800X HD -- but consider it a poor design tradeoff for the SDS1000X HD, where Siglent charges a heavy markup for the larger screen (and 50 Ohm intputs).
i wanted to pay an extra if the 1000hd had not the blobby pixels. 2000hd is too expensive & not justified for my usage.
maybe i can live with the 512x300 resolution... my old tektronix is 320x240 :D
does it have the same double pixel behavior in fft mode?
You should make an effort and try SDS1000xHD yourself.
It's good chance you will not notice the pixels at all.
When you are measuring signals, there is always more than one pixel width of noise.
Scope is not 512x300 resolution. Only trace is double pixel. And that is already much thinner trace than on any old 8 bit scope.
When pedants talk about his they usually have to show you 2-4X times magnified images to be able to explain people what they mean.
It is technically there, but in practice you wouldn't know it if nobody told you about it.
People only noticed it when they were looking into captured screen images on a PC.
So if you can, try it and decide for yourself.
It is still best scope for the money. On SDS800xHD, I feel screen is small for me (bad eyes..) and I miss 50Ω inputs occasionally. Basically if I went for 1000xHD it would be just right.
If you don't need 12 bit, there is also an option of SDS2000X-Plus. It is a 500MHz scope design and very powerful in its own right. It is also 10" touch screen, 50Ω inputs, and higher sample rate in 4ch mode....
Both are quantum leap to your old scope. SDS800xHD is too...
there is the pcim trade fair at nurenbreg on 11-13/6, i seen siglent is present, i hope i can play with the different models there!
-
there is the pcim trade fair at nurenbreg on 11-13/6, i seen siglent is present, i hope i can play with the different models there!
That is excellent! Go and try, and not only Siglent. And then decide for your self. Have fun.
-
I have no issue with you voicing your opinion, but found the "pedant" label quite unnecessary. I don't call you a "fanboy" either.
Because I am not a fanboy. And you are a bit "detail oriented"....
And that is not meant as an insult by no means.
If you were my neurosurgeon I would really appreciate you to be VERY pedantic....
I also do appreciate that it bothers you. I get that. But you should accept that it does not bother me. Not because I'm a fanboy, because when I use the scope I think about other things and don't analyse rendering quality. I accept there is some "stepping" as pixelation is a thing. And as I said, when working on real time signals there is enough noise so it all "blends" enough I don't notice.
Would I mind it to be same as on 2000xHD? No of course not, better is better.
But it is barely noticeable and I can use this very powerful little scope to do some really fancy work.
And so you don't "fanboy" me again, I do have a critique of SDS800xHD. For me screen is small, my eyesight is not good,...
Not resolution, but physical size of screen, and scaling that goes with it.
But if kept on a desk close to me it is OK. Although that is class of scope problem, not Siglent specific.
In fact it boots so fast it would be my first scope to boot and for 80% of quick checkups it would do the job.
It is so small it is like a multimeter on your desk that you keep handy.
But I don't do it. I find it acoustically loud. Not crazy loud, but I got spoiled by 2000xHD that is whisper quiet.
I guess my ears are not much better than my eyes...
If I wanted for Siglent to redesign something on that scope that would be airflow/acoustic design.
I don't have SDS1000xHD and didn't try it, but if that one is 2000xHD quiet that would be awesome.
Maybe Skander36 could give a comment on acoustic signature...
-
...
I don't have SDS1000xHD and didn't try it, but if that one is 2000xHD quiet that would be awesome.
Maybe Skander36 could give a comment on acoustic signature...
It is not as quiet as 2000X-HD but pretty silent.
To make an idea is under the noise from Keysight 2K which should be the same as Keysight 3K.
37 dB Siglent vs 41,5 dB Keysight.
The sound of PWM driving of the fan can be distinguished over the air flow .
-
It is not as quiet as 2000X-HD but pretty silent.
Did you ever have an SDS2000X HD?
That thing is DEAD in terms of loudness. ;)
I had never experienced anything like it before or since.
The 1000X HD has the same fan as the 2000Xplus, so I expect the same noise level.
Not really loud, but quiet is somehow different.
-
...
I don't have SDS1000xHD and didn't try it, but if that one is 2000xHD quiet that would be awesome.
Maybe Skander36 could give a comment on acoustic signature...
It is not as quiet as 2000X-HD but pretty silent.
To make an idea is under the noise from Keysight 2K which should be the same as Keysight 3K.
37 dB Siglent vs 41,5 dB Keysight.
The sound of PWM driving of the fan can be distinguished over the air flow .
Thanks for that.
Yes that is quite quiet... :-)
You say PWM? Is it a tone or clicking?
-
It is not as quiet as 2000X-HD but pretty silent.
Did you ever have an SDS2000X HD?
That thing is DEAD in terms of loudness. ;)
I had never experienced anything like it before or since.
The 1000X HD has the same fan as the 2000Xplus, so I expect the same noise level.
Not really loud, but quiet is somehow different.
SDS2000X HD noise.....or lack of it, is in a class of its own. <right and proper use of a smart fan. :clap:
SDS1000X HD while using the same fan, is not as whisper quiet. :(
Acceptable, yes but IMO, a missed opportunity.
OTOH first boot of SDS6000A, :o well it didn't last long before the fan slows to provide acceptable noise levels.
-
...
I don't have SDS1000xHD and didn't try it, but if that one is 2000xHD quiet that would be awesome.
Maybe Skander36 could give a comment on acoustic signature...
It is not as quiet as 2000X-HD but pretty silent.
To make an idea is under the noise from Keysight 2K which should be the same as Keysight 3K.
37 dB Siglent vs 41,5 dB Keysight.
The sound of PWM driving of the fan can be distinguished over the air flow .
Thanks for that.
Yes that is quite quiet... :-)
You say PWM? Is it a tone or clicking?
Clicking.
-
OTOH first boot of SDS6000A, :o well it didn't last long before the fan slows to provide acceptable noise levels.
Guess what I experience on the 3000...
I think I'll make a short clip of it. ;)
The SDS3000X HD clearly answers the question of whether the fan is controlled or not.
-
It is not as quiet as 2000X-HD but pretty silent.
Did you ever have an SDS2000X HD?
That thing is DEAD in terms of loudness. ;)
...
No I did not have it.
But you don't let any occasions to remember this to us :)
So I take this as reference.
P.S. I think is the same as RTB2K.
-
I even have measurements of it... 8)
However, it's never all sunshine.
The 2000X HD is not exactly a cold device....
-
I even have measurements of it... 8)
However, it's never all sunshine.
The 2000X HD is not exactly a cold device....
There is something more dead than a dead :) R&S FPC1500. It's fanless. Like using a phone or a tablet.
-
I've had an SDS2000X HD sitting on a VESA stand right next to my computer at work for the last six months, and I've been very impressed with this scope. So much so that I decided to sell my own Rigol DS1054Z and buy myself an SDS1000X HD to have at home.
And after close to three months of waiting, it arrived yesterday! I haven't had that much time to play with it yet, but these are my impressions when compared to the SDS2000X HD I've become quite familiar with:
- The fan is definitely louder on the 1000X HD than on the 2000X HD, and it does not seem to be temperature-controlled. The airflow noise is insignificant, but the "clicking" sound from the fan motor is something the 2000X HD doesn't have. I'll probably replace the fan once the warranty is out.
- The 1000X HD UI is much smoother and way less laggy than on the 2000x HD! Floating windows (like the Trigger Type menu) lag really badly when moving it around on the 2000X HD screen, but is butter smooth on the 1000X HD.
- I thought the black color would annoy me, but I actually like it! It also helps that the instrument looks like a professional piece of gear, unlike the recent scopes from the other major Chinese TE manufacturer.
- Some of the LED button colors are way off. For instance, channel 2 has a pink trace on the screen and a pink circle around the BNC, but the channel 2 button has a "deep red" color that doesn't look like the correct color at all. The other channel buttons are better, but not "perfect" like on the 2000X HD.
- The boot times are pretty similar between the 1000X HD and the 2000X HD. I haven't compared them side to side, but it feels like it's in the same ballpark.
- The 2000X HD came with fixed 10x probes, with probe detection, but the 1000X HD came with switchable probes without any probe detection. I could be up for a new set of probes, so if you have any recommendations, please let me know!
-
I wanted a zone trigger to replace my 30 years old fluke pm3394... I bought the sds2000hd last year and don't regret it
I read that the zone trigger is not on the 1000hd, for price and technical reasons
so the 2000hd is the first in price scope to have this feature ?
-
I wanted a zone trigger to replace my 30 years old fluke pm3394... I bought the sds2000hd last year and don't regret it
I read that the zone trigger is not on the 1000hd, for price and technical reasons
so the 2000hd is the first in price scope to have this feature ?
Yes the 1000X-HD does not have zone trigger. If you want 12 bit and zone trigger you need 2000X-HD.
-
...
- Some of the LED button colors are way off. For instance, channel 2 has a pink trace on the screen and a pink circle around the BNC, but the channel 2 button has a "deep red" color that doesn't look like the correct color at all. The other channel buttons are better, but not "perfect" like on the 2000X HD.
...
yes they could have done a better job matching the colors ...[/list]
-
I wanted a zone trigger to replace my 30 years old fluke pm3394... I bought the sds2000hd last year and don't regret it
I read that the zone trigger is not on the 1000hd, for price and technical reasons
so the 2000hd is the first in price scope to have this feature ?
We first saw Zone triggers in SDS5000X and then SDS2000X Plus before any 12bit models were released.
-
so it's the 2000xplus that is the lowest in price with the zone trigger feature
-
I've had an SDS2000X HD sitting on a VESA stand right next to my computer at work for the last six months, and I've been very impressed with this scope. So much so that I decided to sell my own Rigol DS1054Z and buy myself an SDS1000X HD to have at home.
And after close to three months of waiting, it arrived yesterday! I haven't had that much time to play with it yet, but these are my impressions when compared to the SDS2000X HD I've become quite familiar with:
- The 1000X HD UI is much smoother and way less laggy than on the 2000x HD! Floating windows (like the Trigger Type menu) lag really badly when moving it around on the 2000X HD screen, but is butter smooth on the 1000X HD.
… anyone else notice the laggy difference ?
… maybe there is something about 2000X HD processor hardware or OS or UI or FW or something else that makes it an early and different branch of the Siglent HD architecture tree (beyond original the color) that sets it apart from the latter introduced models?
-
I've had an SDS2000X HD sitting on a VESA stand right next to my computer at work for the last six months, and I've been very impressed with this scope. So much so that I decided to sell my own Rigol DS1054Z and buy myself an SDS1000X HD to have at home.
And after close to three months of waiting, it arrived yesterday! I haven't had that much time to play with it yet, but these are my impressions when compared to the SDS2000X HD I've become quite familiar with:
- The 1000X HD UI is much smoother and way less laggy than on the 2000x HD! Floating windows (like the Trigger Type menu) lag really badly when moving it around on the 2000X HD screen, but is butter smooth on the 1000X HD.
… anyone else notice the laggy difference ?
… maybe there is something about 2000X HD processor hardware or OS or UI or FW or something else that makes it an early and different branch of the Siglent HD architecture tree (beyond original the color) that sets it apart from the latter introduced models?
Maybe @2N3055 can test SDS800X-HD against his 2000X-HD. I think 800X should behave the same as 1000X-HD, although this is possible to have a different FPGA/CPU as it does not get the same updates and does not exhibit the same issues.
-
Maybe @2N3055 can test SDS800X-HD against his 2000X-HD. I think 800X should behave the same as 1000X-HD, although this is possible to have a different FPGA/CPU as it does not get the same updates and does not exhibit the same issues.
And does the 3000X HD share the CPU & FPGA with the 2000X HD? If so, maybe Martin72 could compare his 800 vs. the 3000?
-
I've had an SDS2000X HD sitting on a VESA stand right next to my computer at work for the last six months, and I've been very impressed with this scope. So much so that I decided to sell my own Rigol DS1054Z and buy myself an SDS1000X HD to have at home.
And after close to three months of waiting, it arrived yesterday! I haven't had that much time to play with it yet, but these are my impressions when compared to the SDS2000X HD I've become quite familiar with:
- The 1000X HD UI is much smoother and way less laggy than on the 2000x HD! Floating windows (like the Trigger Type menu) lag really badly when moving it around on the 2000X HD screen, but is butter smooth on the 1000X HD.
… anyone else notice the laggy difference ?
… maybe there is something about 2000X HD processor hardware or OS or UI or FW or something else that makes it an early and different branch of the Siglent HD architecture tree (beyond original the color) that sets it apart from the latter introduced models?
Maybe @2N3055 can test SDS800X-HD against his 2000X-HD. I think 800X should behave the same as 1000X-HD, although this is possible to have a different FPGA/CPU as it does not get the same updates and does not exhibit the same issues.
I don't have 1000xHD to compare to 800xHD directly, but 800 seems quite snappy. Comparison to 2000xHD? Some GUI features on 800 feel a bit faster.. Other stuff that is HW accelerated on 2000 is faster on it.
I actually use 2000xHD a lot, because I don't even know it's on... Also it has excellent performance, and for low frequency and low level work it is actually better than my 6000 because it is 500MHz design...
I don't find it slow for normal use.
Only thing where you wait is entering Applications : Bode, Power.... Where it has to switch setup...
-
Maybe @2N3055 can test SDS800X-HD against his 2000X-HD. I think 800X should behave the same as 1000X-HD, although this is possible to have a different FPGA/CPU as it does not get the same updates and does not exhibit the same issues.
And does the 3000X HD share the CPU & FPGA with the 2000X HD? If so, maybe Martin72 could compare his 800 vs. the 3000?
No, no and no.
I keep repeating..
3000xHD is new platform. It has much faster processor than others. 1GB network, different ADCs (2x4GS/s) and FPGA capable of crunching so much more data.
-
3000xHD is new platform. It has much faster processor than others. 1GB network, different ADCs (2x4GS/s) and FPGA capable of crunching so much more data.
Thanks. I was aware of the ADC difference (which should not affect the UI) but not the FPGA and processor.
In which way does the FPGA "crunch more data"? The larger memory resides outside of the FPGA itself, I'd assume. Is it mainly allowing faster processing of triggers & decoding to support the increased sampling rates?
-
I've had an SDS2000X HD sitting on a VESA stand right next to my computer at work for the last six months, and I've been very impressed with this scope. So much so that I decided to sell my own Rigol DS1054Z and buy myself an SDS1000X HD to have at home.
And after close to three months of waiting, it arrived yesterday! I haven't had that much time to play with it yet, but these are my impressions when compared to the SDS2000X HD I've become quite familiar with:
- The 1000X HD UI is much smoother and way less laggy than on the 2000x HD! Floating windows (like the Trigger Type menu) lag really badly when moving it around on the 2000X HD screen, but is butter smooth on the 1000X HD.
… anyone else notice the laggy difference ?
… maybe there is something about 2000X HD processor hardware or OS or UI or FW or something else that makes it an early and different branch of the Siglent HD architecture tree (beyond original the color) that sets it apart from the latter introduced models?
Maybe @2N3055 can test SDS800X-HD against his 2000X-HD. I think 800X should behave the same as 1000X-HD, although this is possible to have a different FPGA/CPU as it does not get the same updates and does not exhibit the same issues.
I don't have 1000xHD to compare to 800xHD directly, but 800 seems quite snappy. Comparison to 2000xHD? Some GUI features on 800 feel a bit faster.. Other stuff that is HW accelerated on 2000 is faster on it.
I actually use 2000xHD a lot, because I don't even know it's on... Also it has excellent performance, and for low frequency and low level work it is actually better than my 6000 because it is 500MHz design...
I don't find it slow for normal use.
Only thing where you wait is entering Applications : Bode, Power.... Where it has to switch setup...
So you didn't notice this behavior observed by hansibull : " Floating windows (like the Trigger Type menu) lag really badly when moving it around on the 2000X HD screen"
-
3000xHD is new platform. It has much faster processor than others. 1GB network, different ADCs (2x4GS/s) and FPGA capable of crunching so much more data.
Thanks. I was aware of the ADC difference (which should not affect the UI) but not the FPGA and processor.
In which way does the FPGA "crunch more data"? The larger memory resides outside of the FPGA itself, I'd assume. Is it mainly allowing faster processing of triggers & decoding to support the increased sampling rates?
Realtime 16GBytes/s instead 8GBytes/s for instance... Throughput is twice...
-
So you didn't notice this behavior observed by hansibull : " Floating windows (like the Trigger Type menu) lag really badly when moving it around on the 2000X HD screen"
Huh....
Never moved Trigger Type menu around. :-//
Will try..
My best explanation is that when I tried 2000 and 3000 side by side I noticed it was faster.
2000xHD do have some visible delays on some functions. But nothing I would call a problem.
But some people might have different expectations...
-
I don't have an SDS1000 or 3000X HD, but the 800 UI-response feels pretty much on par with the SDS2000X HD, as I've stated in my review already.
The SDS2000X HD can get a bit sluggish in certain (rare) situations, but otherwise moving windows like the Trigger Type selection window is fast and smooth. I've just tried and could not find any lag.
For those observing a lag or otherwise strange behavior in the user interface, loading the factory defaults might cure the problem. Alternatively they could just walk through all the settings...
These instruments are fairly complex, and unexpected behavior can be caused by some leftover settings from last session, that are long forgotten by now. Candidates are especially the Acquisition settings and hidden math traces.
-
.. unexpected behavior can be caused by some leftover settings from last session, that are long forgotten by now. Candidates are especially the Acquisition settings and hidden math traces.
also observed this sometime on 1000X-HD ... reset to default solve the problem. very rare though ...
-
If so, maybe Martin72 could compare his 800 vs. the 3000?
This has not been possible for a few days now.
I made someone very happy with the 800.
However, this will not change my planned Power Analyzer demo, because this option is the same for all models.
-
I'm pretty sure I've read on this forum that the new 12-bit Silent scopes can control dedicated Siglent AWGs to perform bode plots.
I have an SDS1000X HD scope and an SDG2042X arbitrary waveform generator. I've connected the generator to the scope using a USB A to B cable, but when I press the Wave Gen button on the scope, I'm only getting a message saying that I need to connect a function generator module.
So is it actually possible for the scope to control a generator?
-
I'm pretty sure I've read on this forum that the new 12-bit Silent scopes can control dedicated Siglent AWGs to perform bode plots.
I have an SDS1000X HD scope and an SDG2042X arbitrary waveform generator. I've connected the generator to the scope using a USB A to B cable, but when I press the Wave Gen button on the scope, I'm only getting a message saying that I need to connect a function generator module.
So is it actually possible for the scope to control a generator?
No need to use AWG button. That is really only to control AWG function of USB generator module.
You simply connect SDG2000X to scope and go in Bode plot, and there you select the AWG and go.
-
So is it actually possible for the scope to control a generator?
AWG external generator can be used only for BODE plot and PSRR Analysis as those applications need to drive the AWG.
There is no reason for an external AWG to be controlled by the oscilloscope as the AWG has it's own interface and commands.
-
Hello,
my SDS3034X HD has now arrived. The SDS2104X HD had to make way for it, as I only have space for two scopes with a screen at my workstation.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Welcome to the probably very exclusive owners club.... ;)
Together with 2N3055 we are now three, we could play skat. 8)
Martin
-
Hello,
my SDS3034X HD probably has the same trial count error as my SDS2104X HD. When using any serial decoder, the trial count of all serial options is lowered.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
my SDS3034X HD probably has the same trial count error as my SDS2104X HD. When using any serial decoder, the trial count of all serial options is lowered.
Best regards
egonotto
Are you on the last FW V1.0.3.3 ?
-
my SDS3034X HD probably has the same trial count error as my SDS2104X HD. When using any serial decoder, the trial count of all serial options is lowered.
Oh, good to know that's how it works. I initially thought it was 30 days, so I was afraid all of the trial options would expire before I had a chance to try them. Althought I've had my scope for a few weeks now, I've only had enough spare time for a cursory examination so far. But next week I'm going to start testing the boards I've been building, so I am looking forward to some true hands-on time. I'm curious to try the power measurement feature.
Are you on the last FW V1.0.3.3 ?
Mine came with some slightly older FW, but I updated to 1.0.3.3.
-
Mine came with some slightly older FW, but I updated to 1.0.3.3.
Same here..
-
Tried SPL2016, works.
I was staring at the scope like a fool earlier, looking for the digital channels... |O
"Digital" button, oh there it is... ;D
-
Hello,
yes is Software Version 4.8.9.1.0.3.3
All serial options have the same trial count 24.
Best regards
egonotto
-
After using the LA license, it was only reduced by one day.
Then I used CAN FD and only this was also reduced by one day.
However:
If the trigger is still set to e.g. CAN-FD and you restart, this is regarded as usage and is deducted accordingly (made after the pictures, therefore not visible on them).
So always deactivate both (decoder and trigger) before shutting down/restarting the scope. ;)
-
After using the LA license, it was only reduced by one day.
Then I used CAN FD and only this was also reduced by one day.
However:
If the trigger is still set to e.g. CAN-FD and you restart, this is regarded as usage and is deducted accordingly (made after the pictures, therefore not visible on them).
So always deactivate both (decoder and trigger) before shutting down/restarting the scope. ;)
I don't understand, 3000X-HD is not crackable? Why are you making worries about trial licenses?
-
Why are you making worries about trial licenses?
I'm not, I was just reacting to egonotto's posts.
-
Why are you making worries about trial licenses?
I'm not, I was just reacting to egonotto's posts.
So it is or not? ... :)
-
it's like the 2000xHD... ;)
-
it's like the 2000xHD... ;)
So it it's not?
Otherwise why they were talking about the trials number remaining?
-
After using the LA license, it was only reduced by one day.
Then I used CAN FD and only this was also reduced by one day.
However:
If the trigger is still set to e.g. CAN-FD and you restart, this is regarded as usage and is deducted accordingly (made after the pictures, therefore not visible on them).
So always deactivate both (decoder and trigger) before shutting down/restarting the scope. ;)
Hello,
So the bug has already been fixed with 1.0.3.3. An older version was probably installed earlier. I wonder when the bug for the SDS2104X HD will be fixed.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Otherwise why they were talking about the trials number remaining?
If we need an option at work, we have to buy it and all companies have to.
Being able to test the options sufficiently beforehand is not uninteresting.
-
Hello,
I just wanted to compare the noise of the SDS3034X HD with the Micsig MHO3 (in the Micsig thread). There were some strange problems. Although there was no signal, the measurement showed nonsense. Only switching the SDS3034X HD off and on again solved the problem.
During my measurement, the strange message "CALIBRATION_COMPLETED" appeared. However, the measurement was not disturbed by this. Unfortunately, I did not catch this message.
Best regards
egonotto
PS:
MHO3 SDS3034X HD
1mV 20 MHz 33 uV 43 uV
1mV 350 MHZ 74 uV 76 uV
1V 20 MHz 3 mV 3.7 mV
1V 350 MHz 9,2 mV 3,9 mV
-
During my measurement, the strange message "CALIBRATION_COMPLETED" appeared. However, the measurement was not disturbed by this. Unfortunately, I did not catch this message.
Read the manual, there might be an auto-calibration feature. Probably an option to enable/disable it somewhere.
-
Hi,
I know this message... ;)
It is not described in the manual and appears about 10 minutes after booting.
If this "secret" calibration has no major influence, the message should perhaps be removed to avoid confusion.
-
Hi,
I know this message... ;)
It is not described in the manual and appears about 10 minutes after booting.
If this "secret" calibration has no major influence, the message should perhaps be removed to avoid confusion.
Have you checked in the settings for any type of auto calibration? I'm sure you've seen other scopes that randomly auto-cal.
-
I'll have to see.
With the 2000X HD you could set something so that a calibration was carried out after every vertical scaling change.
But that was adjustable and short and not 10 minutes.
We mustn't forget that the 3000X HD is in a different league in certain areas, closer to the (now) former top model 6000, I wouldn't be surprised if it has the same ADCs as the 6000, just 2 instead of 4.
-
Hello,
the bandwidth of my SDS3034X HD is about 420 MHz.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Can you please make a demo video for sds3000x hd.
-
What do you have in mind that should be shown in such a video?
-
What do you have in mind that should be shown in such a video?
a small example with bode plot performance and fft, i have never seen its interface other than introductions. :) thanks.
-
Hello,
I have now tried the digital channel. I can't get the promised 100 Mpts/ch. A maximum of 50 Mpts. With the analog channels I also don't get 400 Mpts with only one active channel when digital channels are activated.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: When I set the trigger to an analog channel, I got the promised 100 Mpts.
PS: Strangely, at 10 ms/div I have 100 Mpts and at 5 ms/div only 50 Mpts with Fixed Mem.
-
Hi,
I got the promised 100 Mpts.
The data sheet states 100Mpts (funnily enough per channel, we have 16 digital channels), but it doesn't say anything about having them under all conditions.
However, it also doesn't say when not.
I wouldn't quite trust the data sheet:
The 1Ghz model says 800Mhz limitation, the manual says 750Mhz...
Perhaps Siglent should check the data sheet again and correct it.
By the way, Batronix now has the 500Mhz and 1Ghz in stock.
-
Hello,
I have now tried the digital channel. I can't get the promised 100 Mpts/ch. A maximum of 50 Mpts. With the analog channels I also don't get 400 Mpts with only one active channel when digital channels are activated.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: When I set the trigger to an analog channel, I got the promised 100 Mpts.
PS: Strangely, at 10 ms/div I have 100 Mpts and at 5 ms/div only 50 Mpts with Fixed Mem.
Digital traces are different to those reconstructed from the analog channels.
They are contrived from digital levels exceeded from the bus voltage settings and show no additional data.
H, L and the transitions between are just straight lines so the need for many data points is much reduced and more related to capture length.
-
PS: When I set the trigger to an analog channel, I got the promised 100 Mpts.
PS: Strangely, at 10 ms/div I have 100 Mpts and at 5 ms/div only 50 Mpts with Fixed Mem.
The acquisition rate of the digital channels is "only" 1 GSa/s. The scope simply cannot collect more than 50 MPts in the 50 ms sweep time you get at 5 ms/div, I'd say. At 10 ms/div the number of captured points reaches 100 MPts, so memory size becomes the limitation at slower time bases.
-
PS: When I set the trigger to an analog channel, I got the promised 100 Mpts.
PS: Strangely, at 10 ms/div I have 100 Mpts and at 5 ms/div only 50 Mpts with Fixed Mem.
The acquisition rate of the digital channels is "only" 1 GSa/s. The scope simply cannot collect more than 50 MPts in the 50 ms sweep time you get at 5 ms/div, I'd say. At 10 ms/div the number of captured points reaches 100 MPts, so memory size becomes the limitation at slower time bases.
Hello,
however, the same argument would also apply to 50 Mpts and perhaps 1 ms/div. But then we have the 50 Mpts and not just 10 Mpts. There is undoubtedly still a small error.
In the picture we even have 50 Mpts at 5us/div. Why isn't 100 Mpts possible?
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
With segmented memory, the number of segments does not appear to increase if only one channel is used.
For example, with 1 Mpts I have 159 segments with one active channel or with four active channels. (SDS3034X HD)
Best regards
egonotto
-
With segmented memory, the number of segments does not appear to increase if only one channel is used.
For example, with 1 Mpts I have 159 segments with one active channel or with four active channels. (SDS3034X HD)
That's only natural:
In full channel mode (both channels per ADC activated) and 1 Mpts per channel you use up 2 Mpts per ADC for each acquisition.
In half channel mode (only one channel per ADC active) the record length automatically doubles to 2 Mpts in order to cover the same time span (in half channel mode the sample rate doubles as well after all), so the total memory usage reamins the same, therefore also the number of segments.
-
Hello,
I don't understand. I have always set 1 Mpts. In the case where only C1 is active, why not use the memory that is available when C1 and C2 are active?
Best regards
egonotto
-
I forgot that SDS3000X HD is quite a bit different when compared to the SDS2000X HD. The SDS3000X HD has 1 x 400 Mpts shared between all channels, while the SDS2000X HD has 2 x 200 Mpts, i.e. 200 Mpts per ADC. SDS7000A behaves the same, with the only difference that it is 2 x 1 Gpts instead.
The SDS2000X HD and SDS7000A behave like I've described, i.e. whenever both channels in an ADC are active, then the record length gets halved and the total memory remains constant.
SDS824X HD has shared memory 1 x 100 Mpts and acts as expected, i.e. a certain record length for single channel, half the record length for any two channels and a quarter of the record length for more than two channels.
For both architectures, total memory per ADC is always the same and number of History frames remains constant.
I can't check the SDS6000 right now, which has 1 x 500 Mpts and is therefore comparable to the SDS3000X HD. But even architectures with single memory are still different with regard to ADC: SDS800 has 2 x ADC and 1 x 100 Mpts, SDS3000X HD has 2 x ADC and 1 x 400 Mpts, SDS6000 has 4 x ADC and 1 x 500 Mpts.
I would expect the SDS3000X HD to behave exactly like the SDS800X HD - the screenshots above just don't show the true picture. The scope is still in Stop mode, hence any altered configuration cannot become effective. For each different setting (1, 2, 3, 4 channels active) you have to ensure that the scope is in Run mode, i.e. close the history first. Then you should be able to see the true record lengths. Furthermore, to be absolutely sure when checking the maximum possible number of frames, click on the "Frame No." field in the History and then on "Max" in the numeric input pad.
-
My unit, a SDS3034X HD, finally has arrived! Here next to my loaner unit.
Not much time to play with it, but first impressions is super good. It UI is definitely more responsive than the SDS2000X HD unit, which is is for me a big plus.
Hope to find some time next weeks to play with it :)
-
I would expect the SDS3000X HD to behave exactly like the SDS800X HD - the screenshots above just don't show the true picture.
The data sheet confirms this.
I don't think it's necessary to ask why this is handled differently from model to model.
Nevertheless, I would be interested in the advantages and disadvantages of both “variants”.
By the way, a user of a 12-bit Lecroy at work writes here, which has a maximum total of 50Mpts, just to put that into perspective.
@Lexy:
Yes, that was the first thing I noticed between 2000X HD and 3000X HD.
-
... - the screenshots above just don't show the true picture. The scope is still in Stop mode, hence any altered configuration cannot become effective. For each different setting (1, 2, 3, 4 channels active) you have to ensure that the scope is in Run mode, i.e. close the history first. Then you should be able to see the true record lengths. Furthermore, to be absolutely sure when checking the maximum possible number of frames, click on the "Frame No." field in the History and then on "Max" in the numeric input pad.
Hello,
that's what I did. But I didn't get more than 159 segments of 1 Mpts with only one active channel C1. And that's not even half of the maximum 400 Mpts available for this channel (only C1 active). It seems to me that Siglent is unfortunately not fully utilizing the possibilities of the hardware here.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Up to now, my analysis was incomplete - we need to take the sample rate into consideration as well:
SDS800: 2 x ADC, 1 x 100 Mpts, 1 x 2 GSa/s
SDS2000X HD: 2 x ADC, 2 x 200 Mpts, 2 x 2 GSa/s
SDS3000X HD: 2 x ADC, 1 x 400 Mpts, 2 x 4 GSa/s
SDS6000: 4 x ADC, 1 x 500 Mpts, 4 x 5 GSa/s
So there might actally be differences between SDS800, 3000 and 6000.
I honestly don't know what drives the decision to organize a single shared memory vs. corresponding chunks of memory per ADC. Single shared memory quite obviously has the advantage of longer record lengths in single channel operation.
It might be that the architecture of the SDS3000X HD would be the same as the SDS2000X HD, hence only 200 Mpts max. per ADC, and we only got a special solution that allows a single record utilizing the full memory. If, on the other hand, the history can't get close to even 200 Mpts, I don't have any explanation for that.
-
Here are the memory specs for the 6000A and 2000X HD.
At first glance, it looks as if the 3000X HD and 6000A have the same layout.
-
Here you can see the mainboard of a SDS 3000X HD. Maybe more pictures will follow.
Main difference to SDS2000X HD is the single chip instead of the Spartan and Zynq.
-
That's a pretty busy PCB ! :scared:
Especially when you consider it's in the same small box as SDS1000X HD and 2000X HD.
The 4 metal cans above each of the inputs are interesting, maybe for active probe power ? :-//
-
Hello,
danke.
Can it be, that there are 2 * 5 * K4A4G165WE 4 Gb DDR4-2400 SDRAM on the board?
Presumably 5 * 256 Mpts would then be available for data. But that probably makes no sense.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Here you can see the mainboard of a SDS 3000X HD.
Although not all of the silkscreen is readable in the photo, I didn't notice any markings indicating serial port signals.
-
I didn't notice any markings indicating serial port signals.
Because there is a very high probability that none are executed.
-
That's a pretty busy PCB ! :scared:
Especially when you consider it's in the same small box as SDS1000X HD and 2000X HD.
Note the power connection, 8-pin instead of 4-pin.
There is probably a bit more current going through than with the 2000X HD.
-
There is probably a bit more current going through than with the 2000X HD.
On the primary side, the difference is not huge according to the datasheet: 80W typical for the 3000X HD vs. 70W for the 2000X HD. (Both take the mildly annoying 4W of "standby" power.)
-
Double cross-section for 10W more....Perhaps the motto was having is better than needing.
-
They are using a different power supply as well (see attachment).
@Tautech I could manage to read the partnumber of the IC underneath the metal cans. They are labeled as "LeCroy HFA757 25G23". Not possible to make a photo of that. Not sure if they use them for the probe interface. But maybe they use the Lecroy ProBus? But I don't think so. It looks like from each LeCroy IC goes a differential pair to the corresponding ADC.
-
That's a pretty busy PCB ! :scared:
Especially when you consider it's in the same small box as SDS1000X HD and 2000X HD.
Note the power connection, 8-pin instead of 4-pin.
There is probably a bit more current going through than with the 2000X HD.
I had.
4+ are need to pass Line frequency to the Trigger engine.
8 pin is used on X-E DSO's and a # of other products including the SSA/SVA range.
-
That's a Morsun power supply. That's maybe the reason why deliveries are being delayed because Mornsun has been blacklisted.
-
That's a pretty busy PCB ! :scared:
Especially when you consider it's in the same small box as SDS1000X HD and 2000X HD.
Note the power connection, 8-pin instead of 4-pin.
There is probably a bit more current going through than with the 2000X HD.
I had.
4+ are need to pass Line frequency to the Trigger engine.
8 pin is used on X-E DSO's and a # of other products including the SSA/SVA range.
Further, in this image you can see the small PCB with the white opto passing mains frequency for Line triggering to the rear panel PCB. Much the same setup is used in SDS2000X+.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/?action=dlattach;attach=2277310)
-
That's a Morsun power supply. That's maybe the reason why deliveries are being delayed because Mornsun has been blacklisted.
Quick, somebody go tell treez! he shouldn't sell his business now that SMPS manufactoring in europe is going to be relevant again
-
..
Main difference to SDS2000X HD is the single chip instead of the Spartan and Zynq.
The SOC from left is most likely a Zynq. The bigger one can be an Artix.
We wait for more pics.
Thank you!
-
Much the same setup is used in SDS2000X+.
And in the 2000X HD, this is a board from the Lecroy shelf.
-
I know some of you have been anxious for some random mistakes, to make a decision...
-
LOL :-DD
-
Here you go :)
Better quality is not possible, just my mobile phone with okayish light. Sorry!
Top left is a Xilinx Zynq XCZU2CG. I am not sure about the large one. I did not remove the heat sinks. I couldn't find anything about another FPGA inside the accessible software part so far.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PvrQHrwg/DRAM.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvrQHrwg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRjDsjFL/Mainboard.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRjDsjFL)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9zWpZ1nL/Mainboard-left.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9zWpZ1nL)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0rcCfDgP/Mainboard-right.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0rcCfDgP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fJPf4sTP/PXL-20240605-145802769.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJPf4sTP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SXFLsG97/PXL-20240605-145814891.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXFLsG97)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y466mmfc/PXL-20240605-145938606.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y466mmfc)
(https://i.postimg.cc/yg7FhYvD/PXL-20240605-150049049.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yg7FhYvD)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LgXL7QdR/PXL-20240605-150055544.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LgXL7QdR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7bsg747L/PXL-20240605-150151866.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7bsg747L)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mtP7ynNy/Xilinx-Zynq-XCZU2-CG.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtP7ynNy)
-
Hello,
@tv84 brilliant
@Momchilo thank you
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
with VNC you can use several scopes simultaneously with one PC.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
with VNC you can use several scopes simultaneously with one PC.
Best regards
egonotto
On display at EMEX we had 6 instrument browser tabs open that switching from one to another, control of any/all is available.
One needs only give each a different IP and point the browser to each.
Simple on the same LAN subnet but WAN port configuration for real remote access is above my pay grade. :palm:
-
Hello,
However, WAN is dangerous because someone can probably cause damage in the debug menu.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
However, WAN is dangerous because someone can probably cause damage in the debug menu.
Best regards
egonotto
Certainly, but only if they know the PW. :-X
WAN port access is not something anyone would advertise as it is set/opened for specific need.
A beta tester did this for member hendrog and I in NZ to use some of his Siglent equipment in Oregon USA. :o
There was some noticeable latency but not enough to make the instruments unusable.
-
...
Top left is a Xilinx Zynq XCZU2CG.
After the reports that mention faster UI than 2000X-HD, I was expecting to be an U2EG, or even an U4EV. Those have a Mali GPU on chip. U2CG is the same as in 1000X-HD.
That means the bigger FPGA contribute to the acceleration, not only the processing job.
-
Simple on the same LAN subnet but WAN port configuration for real remote access is above my pay grade. :palm:
No it isn't. WAN access is only dependent on your router configuration and nothing needs to be done on the scopes.
If you open the correct ports and do the necessary NATs, in the/each router, you can do that over the internet.
-
For this one:
(https://i.postimg.cc/SXFLsG97/PXL-20240605-145814891.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXFLsG97)
I am not sure if there was a heat sink at one point or if they tried to sand down the markings.
I did not try to read the part number but it should be possible.
-
I know some of you have been anxious for some random mistakes, to make a decision...
Sshhh... :-X 8)
-
Congrats, it must be a torture to resist during the past weeks :)
-
That was more of a weighing up.
You have to be aware that the warranty is lost.
That doesn't hurt as much with an SDS800X HD, but with a device that costs 8 times as much, that's a different matter.
I have now made a bet with it.
If a device “survives” the first 3 months, then there is a high probability that it will experience its “natural” EOL and you won't need the warranty.
(That's why we do a burn-in test on some products to pre-age them)
I haven't had the Scope for 3 months, not even a month.
So that's a bet. ;)
I will be spending more time with the scope in the near future.
It is now known that it “reacts” faster than the 2000X HD, let's see if it is faster in other ways too, we'll see.
Of the “larger” models, I had the 2000Xplus, the 2000X HD and now the 3000X HD.
All of this in 4 years, some people smile about it according to the motto, the boy changes his scopes like others change their shirts. ;)
Why am I doing this?
There's a simple reason, because I want the maximum possible for the maximum I'm prepared to spend.
And this price limit has shifted upwards over the years.
Basically, a 2000Xplus is enough for me; 99% of all other hobbyists are probably like that, so we don't have to kid ourselves.
But when I switched to the 2000X HD in 2022, I knew I could never go back.
I didn't want to go back to the display quality, which was significantly different from that of the 2000Xplus, despite the same resolution.
There were also a few other benefits such as 4 math channels and average/eres hardware-supported.
I paid 3500€ for it and it didn't feel bad.
But there were still a few things that I would have liked differently, and my mental budget grew during this time.
By now I was ready to spend 5000€, but there was nothing that would have improved me, neither at Siglent nor elsewhere.
Then came the 3000X HD....more bandwidth, more memory, active probe connection, min 2GSa/s....
That's what I want.
Now it's mine.
My budget hasn't changed, so the scope could stay longer.
If Siglent has something “better” for the same money in the medium term, I would switch, otherwise not.
I could afford an SDS6000 if I saved a bit on the budget, but it has 8bit, so I wouldn't want to go back to that.
An R&S MXO4 might be just about feasible, but it doesn't offer so much more than a 3000X HD that I would do that.
The SDS7000 would be the solution for me to satisfy my “technology hunger” forever, but it's in a price range that I would only reach by winning the lottery.
So the SDS3000X HD could actually be a scope that will accompany me for a long time, as long as there is nothing better for the same money.
Better?
Larger screen, higher screen resolution and no bandwidth limitation (1Ghz is only possible up to max. 2 channels), that would be an improvement for me, for which I would switch again.
So, time to get more involved with the 3000, I'll post some results here from time to time.
-
you had to open the scope ? because if it's "just" finding the right codes, you can always remove the licences and send for repair ?
-
From my understanding, LIC-V2 is based on device specific crypographic keys that you need. Opening the device is probably the easiest way to access them.
-
I guess this is just speculation. But it might be that the internal key has to be swapped with an arbitrary one, with no means of reverting back to the old one.
Neither merely opening the device nor "extracting" the old key would imply a warranty or consumer protection loss, according to EU laws. Siglent specific warranty is another story as long as it is an improvement over mandatory consumer regulations.
In any case, if your distributor or Siglent denies your warranty, it is up to you to take legal action which could very well cost more than the scope.
-
Genrally speaking, that would be a paradise for all curious hobbyists, if you can fiddle around with the devices as much as you like and still be able to insist on the warranty in the event of a fault.
For example, if we receive a device for repair and discover that it has already been opened (and you can always find out, believe me), the customer can pay for the repair in full.
I wouldn't take the chance if my budget is rather tight.
-
The post was related to consumers only. I understand your point, on the other hand, if you don't modify the device at all and just manage to install genuine keys, or have a peek inside, and then the device fails due to a manufacturing defect, there shouldn't be a problem with warranty.
-
The post was related to consumers only. I understand your point, on the other hand, if you don't modify the device at all and just manage to install genuine keys, or have a peek inside, and then the device fails due to a manufacturing defect, there shouldn't be a problem with warranty.
Largely true in the EU, as long as "warranty" refers to the compulsory two-year warrantly period which sellers need to provide. In Germany specifically (and I believe in several other countries), within the first 12 months the seller would have to prove that whatever tinkering you did has actually caused the problem, if they want to refuse a repair or replacement under warranty.
During the second year, in theory the customer has to prove that the problem was in the the product from the start. Not often demanded by a seller in practice -- but they might ask for that proof if they find a broken warranty seal.
None of the above apply to any additional (extended) warranty offered which a manufacturer may provide voluntarily. These may well be refused if a warranty seal has been tampered with.
-
The post was related to consumers only. I understand your point, on the other hand, if you don't modify the device at all and just manage to install genuine keys, or have a peek inside, and then the device fails due to a manufacturing defect, there shouldn't be a problem with warranty.
There is no reason to open the device.
Unless you tamper with it to read out something.
If you install original license keys, there is also no need to open the device.
You don't open your newly purchased television either.
If you hack the scope and enter keys that have not been legally acquired, this is not only fraud, but also an unauthorized modification of the device.
Simply removing the keys before sending it in will not help.
Another matter:
and no bandwidth limitation (1Ghz is only possible up to max. 2 channels)
Until now I thought this was a “specialty” of siglent (or rigol), known from SDS2000Xplus, SDS2000X HD, SDS3000X HD.
But no....
R&S MXO4...
1.5Ghz bandwidth, 5GSa/s, 2.5GSa/s active on all channels.
Always 1.5Ghz bandwidth?
How does that work, is Siglent too conservative.....
No, they are just more accurate.
The MXO4 data sheet states 1.5Ghz with a small suffix.
If you look it up, it says in very small letters, only in interleaving mode...Aha.
And how much is it now when all channels are active?
It doesn't say.
That's why Siglent is more honest.
-
Hello,
the Agilent (Keysight) DSO6104A is similar. 1 GHz bandwidth and 2 * 4 GSa/s maximum sample rate. It is somewhat hidden in the data sheet, but the manual says: “When Realtime sampling is on, the bandwidth of the oscilloscope is limited because the bandwidth of the reconstruction filter is set to fs/4. For example, a 610x oscilloscope with channels 1 and 2 on has a bandwidth of 500 MHz when Realtime sampling on and 1 GHz
when Realtime sampling is off."
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hey everyone,
I've been following the SDS3000X discussions since day one on this forum. I'm a hobbyist who is interested mostly in embedded devices all around private projects. For too long I was playing around with cheap oscilloscopes that were just time-consuming to handle as they were often limited in their capabilities - or at least not delivering what I expected from them.
After reading the valuable insights shared in this forum, I decided it was worthwhile to invest a bit more than I had initially planned and get myself an SDS3034X, which I'm sure I'll enjoy for years to come. I know the SDS3034X offers more capabilities than I'll likely need in some areas, but sometimes these decisions are driven by passion rather than pure logic, as we all experience with our hobbies from time to time ;D
I'm based in Europe and curious about the stock status at Siglent.eu. I've reached out to them twice through different channels for a delivery date but haven't received any response yet. Does anyone here have any updates or information on this? Not sure why they didn't respond for 5 days, previously they have been faster.
Best regards, rose
-
You can order it here. Should be available in the next few days: https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS3000X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS3000X-hd.html)
Large serious German shop with excellent service.
-
Hey everyone,
I've been following the SDS3000X discussions since day one on this forum. I'm a hobbyist who is interested mostly in embedded devices all around private projects. For too long I was playing around with cheap oscilloscopes that were just time-consuming to handle as they were often limited in their capabilities - or at least not delivering what I expected from them.
After reading the valuable insights shared in this forum, I decided it was worthwhile to invest a bit more than I had initially planned and get myself an SDS3034X, which I'm sure I'll enjoy for years to come. I know the SDS3034X offers more capabilities than I'll likely need in some areas, but sometimes these decisions are driven by passion rather than pure logic, as we all experience with our hobbies from time to time ;D
I'm based in Europe and curious about the stock status at Siglent.eu. I've reached out to them twice through different channels for a delivery date but haven't received any response yet. Does anyone here have any updates or information on this? Not sure why they didn't respond for 5 days, previously they have been faster.
Best regards, rose
Batterfly say they have it in stock - https://www.batterfly.com/shop/en/testandmeasurement/oscilloscopi/siglent-sds3034x-hd (https://www.batterfly.com/shop/en/testandmeasurement/oscilloscopi/siglent-sds3034x-hd)
Batronix say 1-4 days - https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS3034X-hd.html (https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS3034X-hd.html)
P.S. siglent.eu is a dealer not the Siglent Europe. They are on the siglenteu.com.
-
Thanks for the quick replies. Batronix, while stating <4 days has them only available by the end of July as they just told me.
Hmm, I will get in contact with Batterfly.
-
Does anyone know if there is a way to make the trigger position stay in the same horizontal position when changing timescale? For example, I mostly like to move the trigger point to the left side of the screen (after the first division), but each time I change timescale I have to reset the trigger position again since it is based on time rather than horizontal position. It would be great if there was a setting to set the trigger position by "div" instead of by "time", but I haven't been able to find such a setting on the SDS3000X HD.
I know I've done this before, but maybe I'm thinking of my PC-based logic analyzer.
-
System settings
Reference position.
Check manual.
Also, on timebase you have quick Left center and Right.
-
System settings
Reference position.
Thanks! I looked in the System Settings menu, but somehow overlooked that.
-
Just a short update. Batronix corrected their statement and they said they will receive it by the end of June. They were really friendly. Siglent.eu didn't respond at all.
-
Just a short update. Batronix corrected their statement and they said they will receive it by the end of June. They were really friendly. Siglent.eu didn't respond at all.
You should try with Batterfly. They are at least at the level of Batronix at quality of service. I had many acquisitions from they and never regret (also with Batronix but on Batterfly the scope is on stock).
-
Nevertheless, I would first ask if they really still have it in stock.
-
Nevertheless, I would first ask if they really still have it in stock.
Definitely worthwhile for anyone who wants to make sure not to wait until end of July. Batronix changed their stock indicator now to 11-21 days so the online indicator might not always be accurate.
-
Hello,
once again, my SDS3034X HD is showing nonsensical readings. It only works again after switching it off and on again.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: If you compare the noise values with LeCroy HDO4034A and HDO6034B, and take into account that my SDS3034X HD has a bandwidth of 420 MHz, which should then have 4.05 mV RMS noise, the SDS3000X HD is in the same class as the LeCroy devices mentioned in terms of noise.
-
Hello,
I'm surprised that the noise from SDS3034X HD is so dependent on the setting.
Once 40 Mpts and 4 Gpts/s and once 20 Mpts and 2 Gpts/s
The measurements with __ were taken later.
In the case of 20 Mpts, the values are over 20 % worse.
In the case of 1 mV/div, the difference is not so great, is only 10 %.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hi egonotto,
I will try to recreate this and the previous scenario on my scope over the next few days.
-
Hello,
for the first time I see green on the SDS3034X HD at Batronix. They now have it in stock. The SDS804X HD and SDS1104X HD are also in stock
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
after the last firmware update of my SDS2000x HD, it seems to me that the startup time of the scope has increased by a few seconds. Its now around 1Min 10seconds. Can any of you happy SDS3000x HD owners tell how long the SDS3000x HD takes to boot up?
-
I didn't measure them systematically, but they all seem to be roughly the same, few seconds here and there, except SDS800xHD that is faster than them all... I guess less stuff to load...
-
Hello,
58 s for my SDS3000X HD.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: In terms of boot time, the R&S RTA4000 came out on top with less than 15 seconds.
-
PS: In terms of boot time, the R&S RTA4000 came out on top with less than 15 seconds.
That's pretty fast!
-
Hello,
again segmented memory. If you turn on the digital channels, you get fewer segments.
If the segment size is 10 kpts, there are 16319 segments for four channels, if the digital channels are also switched on, there are only 12223 segments. With segment size 1 Mpts you have 159 and 95 segments.
If you calculate with 12 bits for the analog channels and a total of 16 bits for the digital channels, you can get by with 1 GB.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: I just had another case where the voltage measurements are extremely wrong. After turning it off and on again, it's ok again.
-
Hello,
I have the impression, that the noise decreases slightly after the message "CALIBRATION_COMPLETED".
Best regards
egonotto
-
The message appears almost exactly 10 minutes after booting.
And is a double-edged sword in my eyes.
On the one hand you could ask yourself how, after 10 minutes I can use the scope, then it would be the longest boot time ever.
On the other hand, the fact is that the values of a scope according to the data sheet are usually collected after a certain warm-up time.
We don't know exactly how long this takes.
20 minutes...half an hour...longer...
With the SDS3000X HD, you know it from this message.
That's why I'm still wondering whether it should remain or not be displayed at all so as not to confuse people.
-
Hello,
I would even like it to be visible somewhere after booting that the CALIBRATION has not yet been completed. When the message "CALIBRATION_COMPLETED" appears, the traces disappear for a short time.
Best regards
egonotto
-
A few impressions....
This refutes the data sheet regarding the bandwidth specification when 2 identical channels are active, it is 750Mhz, not 800Mhz.
Risetime is impressively low, the higher bandwidth naturally has an effect on the overshoot.
More pictures:
Intrinsic noise at 1V/1MOhm/full bandwidth, as well as various other settings, plus an FFT of the bodnarpulser, 10Mhz center, 100kHz span, flattop.
-
Hello,
what I don't understand is that at 500 uV 50 Ohm 20 MHz ERES hardly shows any effect.
It would be interesting to see how the SDS804X HD performs at 20 MHz and 500 uV.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hi,
I don't remember the bandwidth reductions for the different ERES modes, but if they are above or just below the 20MHz filter, the effect is almost zero.
You can test this by not putting a filter in front of it, i.e. fulll bandwidth in the channel setting and then using ERES.
-
Hello,
with ERES 4, the bandwidth is 3.4 MHz. This should be clearly noticeable.
I would expect well below 20 uV. But I don't get that, more like 27 uV
Best regards
egonotto
-
I would expect well below 20 uV.
Why ?
But I don't get that, more like 27 uV
Would a 7µV difference at 500µV/div still be recognizable?
-
Hello,
because of my experience with the Rigol DHO1000.
With Hires and a bandwith 12.5 MHz the noise is about 18 uV.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hi,
The DHO 1000 does not have a 1Ghz front end either.
-
In Siglent xHD family, for lowest noise sweet spot is SDS2000X HD.
While still being 500MHz.
-
Hello,
Mine has a little more noise. At a bandwidth of 20 MHz, my DHO1074 is better and it should also have a 500 MHz front end from the HDO4000.
(From zrq (Reply #1236 in Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 thread): "Note that the possibility to hack a DHO1000 for the 50 Ohm input (only for ranges <=100 mV/div and with some offset issues), all software features on DHO4000 and >500 MHz BW has been proven on my 1074")
best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
Mine has a little more noise. At a bandwidth of 20 MHz, my DHO1074 is better and it should also have a 500 MHz front end from the HDO4000.
(From zrq (Reply #1236 in Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 thread): "Note that the possibility to hack a DHO1000 for the 50 Ohm input (only for ranges <=100 mV/div and with some offset issues), all software features on DHO4000 and >500 MHz BW has been proven on my 1074")
best regards
egonotto
If BNC is not covered with shield it can snatch some signal from thin air...
As was already established, If you need only basic math, and lowest possible noise, DHO800 does best job for least money.
DHO4000 really has no additional features (capabilities) in addition to DHO800, except BW active probe interface and more decodes.
Fact is, people complained so much that previous generation Rigol scopes have lots of noise that Rigol took it seriously.
So seriously, in fact, that they seem to think other stuff is not so important anymore. ^-^
-
...
As was already established, If you need only basic math, and lowest possible noise, DHO800 does best job for least money.
DHO4000 really has no additional features (capabilities) in addition to DHO800, except BW active probe interface and more decodes.
Fact is, people complained so much that previous generation Rigol scopes have lots of noise that Rigol took it seriously.
So seriously, in fact, that they seem to think other stuff is not so important anymore. ^-^
You could add the sampling rate(1.25 vs 4 GSa/s), memory (25 vs 500 mpts), WFMS, display size, etc. but basically you have right. The same is for SDS 3000XHD vs SDS 800XHD :)
-
Hello,
Mine has a little more noise. At a bandwidth of 20 MHz, my DHO1074 is better and it should also have a 500 MHz front end from the HDO4000.
(From zrq (Reply #1236 in Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 thread): "Note that the possibility to hack a DHO1000 for the 50 Ohm input (only for ranges <=100 mV/div and with some offset issues), all software features on DHO4000 and >500 MHz BW has been proven on my 1074")
best regards
egonotto
Actually the bandwith capability is at least 800 MHz (from the rise time is even larger - 1,2 GHz but this is not an precise measurement so I wil not bet on this).
But the bw is limited to 200 MHz so the noise can be different. And as 2N3055 said, putting the 50 ohm terminator with cap lower the noise with about 4-5 uV.
-
...
As was already established, If you need only basic math, and lowest possible noise, DHO800 does best job for least money.
DHO4000 really has no additional features (capabilities) in addition to DHO800, except BW active probe interface and more decodes.
Fact is, people complained so much that previous generation Rigol scopes have lots of noise that Rigol took it seriously.
So seriously, in fact, that they seem to think other stuff is not so important anymore. ^-^
You could add the sampling rate(1.25 vs 4 GSa/s), memory (25 vs 500 mpts), WFMS, display size, etc. but basically you have right. The same is for SDS 3000XHD vs SDS 800XHD :)
Not exactly. SDS3000xHD has MSO and also Acquisition Gating, that allows you to have gated FFT for instance.
And more things to come as the platform matures. It is, like, 3 months since release.
But with Siglent your statement is a testament how powerful SDS800xHD is.
With Rigol it is more like how underwhelming DHO4000 is as to what i could (should?) be.....
OTOH, both Siglent XHD series and Rigol DHO series are a class above in capabilities compared to what Big brands (don't?) have in that price class.. Or in some cases at any price.
World have changed...
-
In Siglent xHD family, for lowest noise sweet spot is SDS2000X HD.
While still being 500MHz.
Which settings for the Math-ERES Channel did you choose?
-
In Siglent xHD family, for lowest noise sweet spot is SDS2000X HD.
While still being 500MHz.
Which settings for the Math-ERES Channel did you choose?
ERES 3
-
...
Not exactly. SDS3000xHD has MSO and also Acquisition Gating, that allows you to have gated FFT for instance.
...
SDS800X-HD does not have MSO?
-
...
Not exactly. SDS3000xHD has MSO and also Acquisition Gating, that allows you to have gated FFT for instance.
...
SDS800X-HD does not have MSO?
It does, via optional external module SLA1016:
https://int.siglent.com/products-ware/sds800hd/#navs
-
...
Not exactly. SDS3000xHD has MSO and also Acquisition Gating, that allows you to have gated FFT for instance.
...
SDS800X-HD does not have MSO?
SDS800XHD and 1000XHD does not have built in MSO. MSO is external pod (additional capture hardware).
3000XHD uses same SPL2016 as 2000X, 2000X+, 2000XHD, 5000X, 6000A and 7000A
-
...
Not exactly. SDS3000xHD has MSO and also Acquisition Gating, that allows you to have gated FFT for instance.
...
SDS800X-HD does not have MSO?
SDS800XHD and 1000XHD does not have built in MSO. MSO is external pod (additional capture hardware).
3000XHD uses same SPL2016 as 2000X, 2000X+, 2000XHD, 5000X, 6000A and 7000A
I know. I have the SDS 1000X HD for some time . The question was for you ... regarding the comparison.
The ideea is that in my opinion also SDS3000X-HD as Rigol DHO4000HD is a waste of money compared with the lower models capabilites. Both of them does not bring so much to spend 4K E on them.
-
Hello,
Mine has a little more noise. .....
best regards
egonotto
Hello,
with the SDS2104X HD, a BNC 50 Ohm terminator did not change the measurement.
As far as I can remember, a BNC 50 Ohm terminator was essential for the HDO1074, without it the values were much worse.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
Mine has a little more noise. .....
best regards
egonotto
Hello,
with the SDS2104X HD, a BNC 50 Ohm terminator did not change the measurement.
As far as I can remember, a BNC 50 Ohm terminator was essential for the HDO1074, without it the values were much worse.
Best regards
egonotto
On SDS1000X-HD is about 7uV difference.
On the Rigol 1K HD the noise is lower with about 20uV (from 41 to 20) on 50 ohm. It is more sensible to noise on HI-Z input.
-
...
Not exactly. SDS3000xHD has MSO and also Acquisition Gating, that allows you to have gated FFT for instance.
...
SDS800X-HD does not have MSO?
SDS800XHD and 1000XHD does not have built in MSO. MSO is external pod (additional capture hardware).
3000XHD uses same SPL2016 as 2000X, 2000X+, 2000XHD, 5000X, 6000A and 7000A
I know. I have the SDS 1000X HD for some time . The question was for you ... regarding the comparison.
The ideea is that in my opinion also SDS3000X-HD as Rigol DHO4000HD is a waste of money compared with the lower models capabilites. Both of them does not bring so much to spend 4K E on them.
Well you can have any kind of opinion, including one completely driven with your own user case and opinions...
They don't bring any benefit to you. Which might be very right for you.
But there is much difference and still will have more differentiation as time passes by. Like I said, it is really just released.
-
At the very least, the 3000 has a 1GHz front end and active probe support. Whether you need that or not is a different question, it's still a superior device.
-
At the very least, the 3000 has a 1GHz front end and active probe support. Whether you need that or not is a different question, it's still a superior device.
For this you need another 4 K Euro to use it at 1 GHz (4 x 1 GHz active probes).
Obvious that is superior but is worth double the price vs sds2khd?
-
At the very least, the 3000 has a 1GHz front end and active probe support. Whether you need that or not is a different question, it's still a superior device.
For this you need another 4 K Euro to use it at 1 GHz (4 x 1 GHz active probes).
Obvious that is superior but is worth double the price vs sds2khd?
Like I said, maybe not to you. But if you are doing work that needs that kind of capability then becomes an important feature..
And other manufacturers are much more expensive with offering less...
-
And other manufacturers are much more expensive with offering less...
Lecroy WS4104HD for example...
Inferior to the SDS3104X HD in almost all respects, costs around €15,000.
-
At the very least, the 3000 has a 1GHz front end and active probe support. Whether you need that or not is a different question, it's still a superior device.
For this you need another 4 K Euro to use it at 1 GHz (4 x 1 GHz active probes).
Obvious that is superior but is worth double the price vs sds2khd?
If you need the feature, then yes, 100%. If not, then obviously no. If you buy the 3000 series at the lower bandwidth, it can be upgraded to 1GHz if the need arises. The 2000 can never go above 500MHz. As always, the only thing that ever defines value is what you need, or might need in the future.
As others have said, it's a bargain either way if you compare it to the (lack of) competition.
-
At the very least, the 3000 has a 1GHz front end and active probe support. Whether you need that or not is a different question, it's still a superior device.
For this you need another 4 K Euro to use it at 1 GHz (4 x 1 GHz active probes).
Obvious that is superior but is worth double the price vs sds2khd?
If you need the feature, then yes, 100%. If not, then obviously no. If you buy the 3000 series at the lower bandwidth, it can be upgraded to 1GHz if the need arises. The 2000 can never go above 500MHz. As always, the only thing that ever defines value is what you need, or might need in the future.
As others have said, it's a bargain either way if you compare it to the (lack of) competition.
Yeah well, Dave's 1 GHz scope shootout placed SDS5104X as best bang for buck, which if you look hard at the current pricing has been pushed off its pedestal by SDS3104X HD.
:popcorn:
-
Yeah well, Dave's 1 GHz scope shootout placed SDS5104X as best bang for buck, which if you look hard at the current pricing has been pushed off its pedestal by SDS3104X HD.
:popcorn:
There are not many reasons left to buy a SDS5000x instead of a SDS3000x. The SDS5000x in 1Ghz is (currently - summer promotion) around 600€ (before tax) cheaper and has a slightly higher sampling rate, but only 8 bit ADC. Thats it.
-
Yeah well, Dave's 1 GHz scope shootout placed SDS5104X as best bang for buck, which if you look hard at the current pricing has been pushed off its pedestal by SDS3104X HD.
:popcorn:
There are not many reasons left to buy a SDS5000x instead of a SDS3000x. The SDS5000x in 1Ghz is (currently - summer promotion) around 600€ (before tax) cheaper and has a slightly higher sampling rate, but only 8 bit ADC. Thats it.
Not quite.
SDS5000X has deeper mem depth. 250 Mpts x 2
-
.....
Not quite.
SDS5000X has deeper mem depth. 250 Mpts x 2
Hello,
there are other small differences.
250 Mpts is 250 MB?
200 Mpts is 300 MB?
Digital Channels:
Max. Sampling Rate 1.25 GSa/s vs. 1 GSa/s
Memory Depth 62.5 Mpts/ch vs 100 Mpts/ch
Best regards
egonotto
-
I had the chance to play with this beauty over the last week and I have to tell it is an awesome piece of technology. The channels y-positioning is a little unpredictable to me sometimes as it is quite snappy - but that could be me ;)
I even tried the DIY SPL2016 designed by others in this forum to decode an I2C project I'm playing with. Great that Siglent provides these trials. Coming from a much cheaper oscilloscope, I find this one very handy and it saves me a lot of my limited spare time.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9fT07gqr/IMG-9332.avif)
Thanks to the discussions in this thread, I was confident that I wouldn't be disappointed with my new device, and that has proven to be true. I am thoroughly pleased with my new toy. ^-^
-
How was your experience with the refresh rate ?
The sds1000xhd looked rather sluggish on the teardown video, but maybe it is only in comparison with the 2000 ?
How was the 3000 ?
-
New Firmware for 3000X HD, "only" change:
Made Option 16LA and Option FG Standard
:D
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/17342/?tmstv=1719836443 (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/17342/?tmstv=1719836443)
-
New Firmware for 3000X HD, "only" change:
Made Option 16LA and Option FG Standard
:D
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/17342/?tmstv=1719836443 (https://www.siglenteu.com/download/17342/?tmstv=1719836443)
Right, and I thought I will wait to buy one until Siglent made the next promotion (Christmas?) ::) Well, maybe there will be some bandwidth extension included then. Somehow it feels wrong to buy my Christmas present in July ;D
-
Hallo,
Siglent SPL2016 Logic Probes now cost €505.75 at Batronix. If I remember correctly that was about 400 € last week and the Siglent SAG1021I now costs 284,41 € and if I remember correctly that was under 200 € last week.
Best regards
egonotto
-
I wonder if this was always some kind of pricing structure to make the cost look cheaper because the total cost was split between software license and hw price... Also, perhaps Siglent is catching on to the 'upgrades' available for these products and wants to recoup lost profits?
-
Yeah, they just increased the prices for the hardware needed.
Guess it makes sense, to include the price of the "license" in the hardware price instead and allow the hardware to be used accross multiple scopes without needing extra licenses.
-
Siglent SPL2016 Logic Probes now cost €505.75 at Batronix. If I remember correctly that was about 400 € last week and the Siglent SAG1021I now costs 284,41 € and if I remember correctly that was under 200 € last week.
I'm still happy that I convinced Welectron to give me the SPL2016 Logic Probe instead of the promoted bandwidth extension, when I purchased my SDS2000x HD in December 2022
-
I wonder if this was always some kind of pricing structure to make the cost look cheaper because the total cost was split between software license and hw price... Also, perhaps Siglent is catching on to the 'upgrades' available for these products and wants to recoup lost profits?
No, it might be that everybody was complaining why they have to buy both hardware and license.
They wanted for the license to be included in hardware purchase.
Now you buy hardware, and on any scope that supports it it works.
-
Made Option 16LA and Option FG Standard
Haha! When I bought my SDS3000X HD and 16LA, I was inquiring about the possibility of extending the SDS2000X's option bundle promotion to the SDS3000X HD, which would tip my choice over to the SDS3000X HD. I mainly needed the 16LA, didn't care about the rest of the bundle.
The salesman said he couldn't do the bundle, but he worked out a price that included the 16LA software license for free. I really hope he wasn't aware of this upcoming change, because he made it sound like he was working hard to convince his chain of command to let him make that deal.
But, if I remember correctly, at least I still got a slight discount on the 16LA probe, too. It wasn't much, but every bit helps.
-
Somehow it feels wrong to buy my Christmas present in July ;D
"Christmas in July" is actually a thing. 🤷😉
-
I guess more people are willing to spend more money than I thought - the 3000s are already sold out at Batronix....
Siglent SPL2016 Logic Probes now cost €505.75 at Batronix.
They don't make their money with scopes, but with overpriced accessories... 8)
-
I guess more people are willing to spend more money than I thought - the 3000s are already sold out at Batronix....
Siglent SPL2016 Logic Probes now cost €505.75 at Batronix.
They don't make their money with scopes, but with overpriced accessories... 8)
Wow, bought my SPL2016 Logic Probes from Batronix in April 2021 for 322€.
-
....
Wow, bought my SPL2016 Logic Probes from Batronix in April 2021 for 322€.
Hello,
21 hours ago you would have gotten a Siglent SDS2XHD-BND (inclusive SPL2016 Logic Probes) for € 235,00 plus VAT when buying a SDS2000X HD.
Best regards
egonotto
-
They don't make their money with scopes, but with overpriced accessories... 8)
Isn't that how all accessories work, business-wise? Look at any car price list, or look at you favorite restaurant's drink prices... ::)
-
I cannot measure phase between channel 1 and channel 4, I think there is a problem, can you try it with 3000hd?
-
A little more information would be helpful, which test situation, which scope, screenshot....
-
I cannot measure phase between channel 1 and channel 4, I think there is a problem, can you try it with 3000hd?
No problems whatsoever..
Did you set up Source A to C1 and Source B to C4 correctly?
-
yes, selected ch1 and ch4, measure Phase(c1,c4)
-
Measuring gate set as default?(whole screen)
Otherwise I can post a measurement tomorrow, it's too late for me today.
-
The situation is the same when I select other channels.
If I restart it, it takes the correct measurement, but if I add a new channel selection, it still doesn't measure.
-
Aha....
I have now tried it after all, without any problems.
C1,C4 and then deleted and then C4,C1
-
Freq(c1) and Freq(c4) problem.
-
Could you please make real screenshots(save button), not a photo of the screen ?
So that people can at least see what you have set, if you don't tell them.
"doesn't work" and then just a photo of the scope is simply not enough to be able to provide any help.
Test setup, settings on the scope, firmware version of the scope... Things like that are useful.
-
Hello,
sometimes the setting is a bit tricky. If I only change the source, this is often ignored. However, if I reactivate the phase, it adopts the setting.
Best regards
egonotto
-
That's another thing, the basic operation, which sometimes drives you mad. ;)
-
Hello,
why pasha has a problem is not clear to me. Enclosed is a picture that might be similar to his attitude.
Best regards
egonotto
-
We didn´t know his settings, we didn´t know the firmware version.
It should be at least 1.0.3.3, the initial release.
(Mine came with an elder pre-version (yours too...) )
-
Hello,
according to his picture, he has channels 1 and 4 active and feeds them with the same signal. I have recreated this in a similar way.
The frequency shouldn't matter, so I didn't change my two generator outputs for convenience.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Oscilloscope : SDS3034X HD
Software ver.: 1.0.3.3
-
Hi,
Set scope to default values( default setting is in the acquisition menu folder), then try again.
-
Hello,
I also have 1.0.3.3. Enclosed is the picture of me. It is convenient to use the web interface. Then you can get a screenshot by pressing a button.
Best regards
egonotto
-
@Martin72; I did it but the result did not change, it gets better after a few restarts. I can't use it like this all the time.
@egonotto, i have not cable connection.
-
it gets better after a few restarts.
???
"Better" or the way it should be?
-
Hello,
I have also had a problem with an incorrect Stdev measurement a few times. Switching the scope off and on always helped.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Note the difference in frequency values between what you two and Pasha are testing. Pasha's examples are significantly different frequencies.
-
Switching the scope off and on always helped.
But that should not be THE solution, then something is not quite right.
-
I will try to install the published firmware,
@KungFuJosh changing the frequency doesn't help much.
@Martin72; better "sorry : the way it should be"
-
Note the difference in frequency values between what you two and Pasha are testing. Pasha's examples are significantly different frequencies.
At first he had 4Mhz, which I also used for my pictures.
Then he had 10Mhz and finally 1Mhz....
-
Note the difference in frequency values between what you two and Pasha are testing. Pasha's examples are significantly different frequencies.
At first he had 4Mhz, which I also used for my pictures.
Then he had 10Mhz and finally 1Mhz....
10MHz and 20MHz. Another had something like 27kHz vs 349MHz.
Look at both numbers on each screenshot.
-
This is what was (incorrectly) measured, look at the hardware counter.
I used this as a guide and set my generator accordingly.
-
Hello,
yes, that is correct. The important question is whether it is a software problem that can be rectified with new firmware.
Pasha's last picture had 1 MHz like my last picture. But that shouldn't have any influence on the error.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
sometimes the setting is a bit tricky. If I only change the source, this is often ignored. However, if I reactivate the phase, it adopts the setting.
Best regards
egonotto
Please document this in detail and if it it is just a 3kX HD issue or if it can be replicated in other models.
TIA
-
This has existed since 2000Xplus, and I complained about it at the time.
In my opinion, it also makes no sense to differentiate between "Simple" and "Advance".
Measuring point 1, which source, which value, done.
Measuring point 2, which source, which value, done.
And so on, but that's not how it works with siglent.
-
I upgraded to 1.0.3.7 but the problem is still the same.
-
Hello,
when I changed the source for the phase measurement, the change was ignored. I had closed the menu with the X. I then noticed that the phase was sometimes deactivated in the menu. Then I always reactivated the phase and it worked.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: The name of the screenshots is now generated differently. Previously it was e.g. ScreenImg (97) now it is e.g. ScreenImg - 2024-07-11T014135.631.
-
This is what was (incorrectly) measured, look at the hardware counter.
I used this as a guide and set my generator accordingly.
I'm curious if them being measured incorrectly is related to his issue. You and Ego didn't have that problem.
-
Hello,
when I changed the source for the phase measurement, the change was ignored. I had closed the menu with the X. I then noticed that the phase was sometimes deactivated in the menu. Then I always reactivated the phase and it worked.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: The name of the screenshots is now generated differently. Previously it was e.g. ScreenImg (97) now it is e.g. ScreenImg - 2024-07-11T014135.631.
When you open Measurement window you have to select source and then measurement to apply change.. That is how it was implemented.
In Simple measurement mode, there are no 2ch measurements.
This is something that simply works and I have no idea why @Pasha sees this.
I would like to point out to a Analysis menu -> Analysis Gate.
If analysis Gate is set to just a fraction of memory it will measure only there.
Also, if in Measure->Config ->Amplitude strategy and Thresholds need to be set to proper settings
I would recommend @Pasha to start a scope while repeatedly pressing Math button during boot.
That should restore scope to full factory settings.
And try again.
-
@2N3055, start a scope while repeatedly pressing Math button during boot.
not responce
-
@2N3055, start a scope while repeatedly pressing Math button during boot.
not responce
Hello,
please measure Stdev for an active channel without having anything connected to the input .
Best regards
egonotto
-
@2N3055, start a scope while repeatedly pressing Math button during boot.
not responce
I assure you it works..
You need to try again.
Just keep on pressing..
It will not say anything but scope will have all user set options reset to factory..
-
@2N3055, i wil try.
-
@2N3055, It worked for a while, but when I restarted it went back to its previous state
-
@egonotto
-
Hello,
this looks similar to the error I had twice as far as I remember correctly. However, switching the device off and on always helped.
Best regards
egonotto
-
@egonotto,
But turning it off and on doesn't always work
-
@egonotto,
But turning it off and on doesn't always work
Hello,
Does it help at least sometimes? If so, how often did it help and how often did it not?
I have now checked. It was on 25.5 and 20.6, so I only had the error twice. I hope it's not a hardware error. Have you contacted Siglent?
Best regards
egonotto
-
This is all very strange and reminds me that I also wanted to test it on my scope.
Which I will do "tomorrow".
-
This is all very strange and reminds me that I also wanted to test it on my scope.
Which I will do "tomorrow".
Hello,
for me, the error occurs very rarely. Twice in six weeks. I had previously thought that it was a software error, but what pasha reports scares me a little.
I have no idea how I can reproduce the error. When I have had the error, it has always happened immediately after switching on. You can only see the error if you take a measurement.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hi,
When I have had the error, it has always happened immediately after switching on.
Just speculation, but it may have something to do with the internal calibration, which is displayed as finished 10 minutes after the start.
I have no idea how I can reproduce the error.
If it happens to me too, there are three different scopes where this has occurred.
Then you would have to make sure that you can actually reproduce it, i.e. at least the initial conditions must be the same for all of them.
But we are not there yet.
-
@egonotto, this is probably a bug, but I don't think I should worry about whether it's measuring correctly this time every time I turn on the oscilloscope.
-
Hello,
I still haven't understood how often the error occurs with pasha. Is it always? Or most of the time?
If it occurs very often with pasha, he should contact Siglent. Looking for an error that occurs very rarely, as in my case, is extremely difficult.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
another thing that surprises me, is how little influence the bandwidth limitation has on the noise.
Best regards
egonotto
-
@egonotto, %50 :palm:
-
I could be wrong, but with the selected time base the lower frequencies tend to be dominant.
-
I could be wrong, but with the selected time base the lower frequencies tend to be dominant.
Hello,
are the values for your device similar?
Best regards
egonotto
-
@egonotto, %50 :palm:
Hello,
that's bad. Do you want to contact Siglent? Or do you want to complain to the dealer about your device?
Does the error sometimes occur even if the device has been running for a while without any problems?
Best regards
egonotto
-
are the values for your device similar?
We will see it later.
-
@egonotto, %50 :palm:
Hello,
that's bad. Do you want to contact Siglent? Or do you want to complain to the dealer about your device?
Does the error sometimes occur even if the device has been running for a while without any problems?
Best regards
egonotto
yes, I will contact.
The problem starts when you first start up and continues until you restart. Sometimes it is necessary to reboot several times.
-
Proposal:
Switch on the scope and wait 15 minutes.
Then do what you always do.
-
@egonotto:
What settings should I make on the scope for comparison?
-
@egonotto:
What settings should I make on the scope for comparison?
Hello,
thanks,
channel 1: 1 V/div and channel 4: 1 V/div,
1 ms/div,
10 Mpts,
bandwidth limitation 20 MHz and 200 MHz,
Memory Management Auto, Max Mem Depth 10M.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hi,
So I have now played around a bit.
Nothing "strange" has happened in the meantime.
But at first I didn't measure anything, nothing was displayed except ***- "thanks" to the new analysis gate. ;)
Then as specified 20M and 200M, looks normal compared to your measurements.
Interesting though:
This was measured in a cold state, after approx. 10min the now familiar message "Calibration completed" appears - And lo and behold....
Ch4 is now significantly better, has come much closer to CH1.
We should keep this in mind when "serious" measurements are due.
First of all, wait... 8)
Martin
-
Very sensitive multimeters had such a warning.
warm up time
-
It should be noted that this message "Calibration Completed" is exclusive to the SDS3000X HD, it is not available on the 2000Xplus, 2000X HD, SDS800X HD.
But yes, a little hint, perhaps displaying "warmup" in a corner, that would be something nice.
(Lecroy scopes show this if you want to activate the self-calibration (is then blocked with the note)).
-
In fact, "warm up time" is valid for all oscilloscopes, even very old devices can be observed to behave differently 10 minutes after starting up compared to the beginning, specially in mV level measurements.
-
There is no question that every appliance needs a certain warm-up time.
-
Yeah, tons of test gear require warm-up time. For example, the MXO 5 datasheet specifies:
"Three hours of storage at ambient temperature followed by 60 minutes of warm-up operation"
10 or 15 minutes isn't too bad. 😉
-
:)
-
What I noticed again yesterday is not an SDS3000X HD specific thing, but of a general nature with the software platform.
It concerns the display of the measured points:
I had also displayed the Stdev values from channel 2 and channel 3, later I no longer needed the two channels, so I had deactivated them again.
Accordingly, I no longer needed the values for 2 and 3, so I wanted to delete them....
It's not as simple as you might think at first.
You can only delete them all with "clear" in the measurement menu.
You can delete them individually by tapping the value for the relevant channel again, for example, in my case by tapping stdev again in the menu, then it's gone.
Now I could not delete stdev for channel 2 and channel 3, why ?
Quite simply because the channels are not active... :P
This means that to delete the measuring points, you must:
-reactivate the channels that are no longer required (and then deactivate them)
- or remember beforehand and delete the measuring points first, then deactivate the channels
- or delete everything with "clear" and create the measuring points for the active channels again.
Of course you can say that anyone who forgets will be punished, but you can also make it a little easier.
Measuring point n(value)(source) on/off, done.
Edit: B**sh** written.
-
... you can also make it a little easier.
Correct - you can make it a lot easier. No need to open the "Type" dialog. Just tap or click on the minus sign (in M1 mode the upper right corner of each measurement "box", in M2 mode in front of each measurement line).
-
Hmm...
I pressed it yesterday, but only with my finger. ;)
I'll try again soon.
-
Yes, that's right, it works if you hit the minus sign exactly, I couldn't manage that yesterday. :P ;)
A slightly simpler operation would still not be bad, but that's complaining on a high level.
-
New firmware for SDS3000X HD avaible(19/07/2024):
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS3000X-HD_1.0.3.9_EN.zip
V1.0.3.9 :
Optimized Self-cal time from 52 minutes to 22 minutes.
What..... :scared:
That's what I call a dramatic reduction in time. :-+
Hopefully nothing has been left out for this. 8)
Firmware history so far:
V1.0.3.3 Initial Release
V1.0.3.7 Made Option 16LA and Option FG Standard
V1.0.3.9 Optimized Self-cal time from 52 minutes to 22 minutes.
-
With respect to the change in licensing for the digital probe license, I actually pre-purchased the digital probe/license with my SDS3034X, meaning I way overpaid for the feature. Siglent and the vendor I purchased through basically told me "prices can change at any time, so sad too bad" when I asked for a price correction.
The funny part is that I didn't even have a chance to install the license on my scope because of how much it was delayed, so I basically paid an extra 300 eur for a useless envelope. I kinda feel like I was price gouged in this scenario. Am I out of line asking for a price correction, or is this just something I should get used to?
-
With respect to the change in licensing for the digital probe license, I actually pre-purchased the digital probe/license with my SDS3034X, meaning I way overpaid for the feature. Siglent and the vendor I purchased through basically told me "prices can change at any time, so sad too bad" when I asked for a price correction.
The funny part is that I didn't even have a chance to install the license on my scope because of how much it was delayed, so I basically paid an extra 300 eur for a useless envelope. I kinda feel like I was price gouged in this scenario. Am I out of line asking for a price correction, or is this just something I should get used to?
How long ago did you receive the scope? Is it still within the return period?
-
I purchased end of March, though it was delivered middle of June. Refund period was 14 days so that's not an option. Plus not worth the hassle - it's still my ideal scope for what I do.
I just might hesitate to buy any other Siglent equipment now, if there are other equivalent options on the market.
-
Well, it's not Siglent's fault as the manufacturer, that's a case for the dealer's goodwill.
And if the dealer refuses to do so, you simply won't buy from them again.
-
With respect to the change in licensing for the digital probe license, I actually pre-purchased the digital probe/license with my SDS3034X, meaning I way overpaid for the feature. Siglent and the vendor I purchased through basically told me "prices can change at any time, so sad too bad" when I asked for a price correction.
The funny part is that I didn't even have a chance to install the license on my scope because of how much it was delayed, so I basically paid an extra 300 eur for a useless envelope. I kinda feel like I was price gouged in this scenario. Am I out of line asking for a price correction, or is this just something I should get used to?
Overall cost of licensing and probe remains unchanged.
The need for MSO/LA probe licensing evaporated with the latest firmware but the price for the probe, in your case SPL2016 lifted by the amount of the license cost.
This was a rare move for Siglent and in many ways a welcomed one.......except for those of us that are holding purchased option licenses that are now no longer needed so any probes we are holding in stock need to be sold at the new pricing ........
Edit to add
The move by Siglent to remove licensing needed for some options can also be seen as a big THANK YOU to those customers upgrading to new models that use the same optional HW from models they have previously owned.
Now they can use their SPL2016, SLA1016 and SAG1021I in all/any models that support them without any need for additional/multiple licenses.
-
Hello,
no, the price for the license and the probes was much more expensive. Well over €800 for the SDS3034X HD. So over €300 more than now.
If it was the same price, why would Mr. John be upset?
Best regards
egonotto
PS: The price for the license for SDS2000X HD was lower than the price for the license for SDS3000X HD
-
I purchased end of March, though it was delivered middle of June. Refund period was 14 days so that's not an option. Plus not worth the hassle - it's still my ideal scope for what I do.
I just might hesitate to buy any other Siglent equipment now, if there are other equivalent options on the market.
If you haven't even opened or installed the option card, I would tell the seller that. I would hold the seller accountable more than Siglent. You waited months to receive it from them, and by them time you got it, the option you paid for was no longer useful. They should either refund it, or at least give you store credit towards another purchase. Otherwise, I would never shop there again. I'd also leave a review for the company and let people know the customer service there sucks.
-
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/magnova-oscilloscope/msg5585249/#msg5585249 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/magnova-oscilloscope/msg5585249/#msg5585249)
Done:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rwXwHtJwmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rwXwHtJwmQ)]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rwXwHtJwmQ
It is also a good example of the different representation of the signal with a scope (amplitude over time) and a spectrum analyzer (frequency over time).
(Sweeptime : 5sec, 1sec, 500msec)
-
All problems were fixed with the new firmware 1.0.3.9, amazing
-
Hm?
-
Hm?
If I remember correctly, he had some problems with measurements and this might mean that is sorted out now.. I guess... I suppose... :-DD
-
actualll question to ask is, why didn't you have the problem I had? Or why was there a problem with my oscilloscope? Aren't these devices produced as standard?
-
actualll question to ask is, why didn't you have the problem I had? Or why was there a problem with my oscilloscope? Aren't these devices produced as standard?
Hello,
yes, that's a really interesting question, why was the problem so bad for you?
I haven't had the problem since the discussion back then. And I still have the same firmware.
Best regards
egonotto
-
If a device is produced as standard, I expect its standard software to show the same result on every device, unless there is a hardware problem. I think that such problems should not be solved by things like changing the calibration procedure, that is why I am surprised. Anyway, as a result, my problem was solved, that's what matters.
-
If a device is produced as standard, I expect its standard software to show the same result on every device, unless there is a hardware problem. I think that such problems should not be solved by things like changing the calibration procedure, that is why I am surprised. Anyway, as a result, my problem was solved, that's what matters.
Hello,
one setting differently and the software could behave differently due to an error. So it doesn't have to be a hardware error.
In my case, the generated file names have changed. I have no idea why.
An older file is called ScreenImg (92).png, for example. The (92) is what Windows does. Now the files are called e.g. ScreenImg - 2024-07-12T012307.856.png.
Best regards
egonotto
P.S. Of course, it could also be a change in the browser.
-
If a device is produced as standard, I expect its standard software to show the same result on every device, unless there is a hardware problem. I think that such problems should not be solved by things like changing the calibration procedure, that is why I am surprised. Anyway, as a result, my problem was solved, that's what matters.
That's not really accurate. These are fancy computers that happen to do oscilloscope things. There are lots of ways to create problems that are not hardware reliant. Often enough, setting to default and reflashing firmware can fix these types of issues.
-
If a device is produced as standard, I expect its standard software to show the same result on every device, unless there is a hardware problem. I think that such problems should not be solved by things like changing the calibration procedure, that is why I am surprised. Anyway, as a result, my problem was solved, that's what matters.
That's not really accurate. These are fancy computers that happen to do oscilloscope things. There are lots of ways to create problems that are not hardware reliant. Often enough, setting to default and reflashing firmware can fix these types of issues.
I hope so
-
If a device is produced as standard, I expect its standard software to show the same result on every device, unless there is a hardware problem.
It should be noted that your "problems" or rather, in this context, phenomena could not be reproduced by any other SDS3000X HD owner, so the standard is given.
I think that such problems should not be solved by things like changing the calibration procedure, that is why I am surprised.
Shortening the calibration time is also not the solution to your phenomenon, but simply a shortening of the calibration time.
Anyway, as a result, my problem was solved, that's what matters.
Updating the firmware is like reforming the memory addresses.
A possible abnormality is virtually overwritten, which is rare but not unusual.
We have also experienced this phenomenon at work.
We programmed a circuit with a controller on it, then tested it and one thing didn't work as expected.
We did some troubleshooting, found nothing, then programmed the controller again with the same file - and it worked perfectly afterwards.
That's the way it is sometimes, wondering for a moment, then accepting it in the end because there's nothing else to do.
-
In my case, the generated file names have changed. I have no idea why.
An older file is called ScreenImg (92).png, for example. The (92) is what Windows does. Now the files are called e.g. ScreenImg - 2024-07-12T012307.856.png.
What you see is just the difference between saving to flash or using the web interface. To be sure, I've just tried with the SDS7000A:
Direct to Flash Filename: SDS7404A_H12_PNG_1
Web-Interface Screenshot Filename: ScreenImg - 2024-08-02T090122.089
-
Hello,
I use only the web interface. I have never used flash with SDS3000X HD.
Best regards
egonotto
-
I use only the web interface. I have never used flash with SDS3000X HD.
Yes, older FW always used the same simple filename. But current FW makes that distinction and you can easily try this by repeating my experiment, i.e. saving a screenshot to a flash drive.
The Filename used for saving to flash is configurable by the way...
-
Hello,
the behavior when generating the file names in the web interface has changed without me having made a firmware change. I suspect that a function in the browser has been changed. I will check this by using a different browser.
My suspicion was correct. Firefox still generates names like ScreenImg(2).png.
So it was the Edge browser.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Let me remind everybody that if you create a map to a folder on your PC (using SMB Client), then you can directly save to PC.
Also, since scope remembers last filesystem used, once you save to PC firstly, from that point on it will keep saving there.
So you press [Save]button on scope, and screenshot ends up on a PC. Or data, whatever is set.
Pay attention that 3000xHD saves data to PC at almost 100MBytes/sec... It is very fast.
-
My workflow is easy. Making a screenshot in the web interface, open it in the download folder with Irfanview (my standard image viewer), invert it for printing or combine it with other snapshots and store it in a dedicated folder with an dedicated name for later use as JPG.
-
My workflow is easy. Making a screenshot in the web interface, open it in the download folder with Irfanview (my standard image viewer), invert it for printing or combine it with other snapshots and store it in a dedicated folder with an dedicated name for later use as JPG.
And that is what I also do..
But sometimes, as you work on something, you can simply document things as you go, directly from the scope. Or when testing a small batch or repeating measurement while making changes on circuit. There are many scenarios where it is simply more ergonomic not to jump between PC and what you work on.
We are fortunate that we can choose way that suits us best.
-
Let me remind everybody that if you create a map to a folder on your PC (using SMB Client), then you can directly save to PC.
Also, since scope remembers last filesystem used, once you save to PC firstly, from that point on it will keep saving there.
So you press [Save]button on scope, and screenshot ends up on a PC. Or data, whatever is set.
Pay attention that 3000xHD saves data to PC at almost 100MBytes/sec... It is very fast.
GbE being considered "fast" on a $3000 device is so disappointing. The FPGAs can support 10g+ if only the manufacturers exposed a sfp+ cage
-
Let me remind everybody that if you create a map to a folder on your PC (using SMB Client), then you can directly save to PC.
Also, since scope remembers last filesystem used, once you save to PC firstly, from that point on it will keep saving there.
So you press [Save]button on scope, and screenshot ends up on a PC. Or data, whatever is set.
Pay attention that 3000xHD saves data to PC at almost 100MBytes/sec... It is very fast.
GbE being considered "fast" on a $3000 device is so disappointing. The FPGAs can support 10g+ if only the manufacturers exposed a sfp+ cage
And it can support anti aircraft gun too if you add that too...
Better check what kind of speed you get from competition...
-
GbE being considered "fast" on a $3000 device is so disappointing. The FPGAs can support 10g+ if only the manufacturers exposed a sfp+ cage
In practice, there is a difference between possible and sensible.
-
Hello,
I would like it, if there was a USB3 streaming mode.
Best regards
egonotto
-
Hello,
I had a look at what you can achieve with average.
Best regards
egonotto
PS: With the MHO3 you can only set 256 averages and only get 1.7 uV (AC RMS) and 15 uV (pp) with comparable settings.
-
I did the same with my SDS2000X HD fyi, see attached. Seems to be a little bit noisier.
Egonotto, why have you limited the sample rate to 100 MSa/s?
-
Hello,
there are a few threads here that deal with accurate and extreme LCR measurements. This has inspired me to see what is possible with an Analog Discovery. It's quite good, if you disregard the accuracy. However, the Analog Discovery only has 500 mV/div, so I wanted to know what could be achieved with an SDS3000X HD. The selected settings seemed to me to be a good fit.
Best regards
egootto
-
Sounds interesting.
Which software can be seen in the picture?
And the data for this came from the 3000X HD?
-
Sounds interesting.
Which software can be seen in the picture?
And the data for this came from the 3000X HD?
That is Waveforms software for Analog Discovery.
You can try it, it is interesting. Works with a sound card for basic testing..
-
Sounds interesting.
Which software can be seen in the picture?
And the data for this came from the 3000X HD?
Hello,
no, the picture is from the Analog Discovery 3. but if you consider how much more sensitive the SDS3000X HD is, for example, you can imagine what good results you could achieve with it and a function generator. Not only is it more sensitive, but you can also adjust the V/div in the program (that still needs to be written).
If you consider that a coil of 1 uH at 100 Hz has about 0.628 mOhm, but at 10 MHz it already has 62.8 kOhm.
The Analog Discovery could no longer measure anything at 100 Hz, but the SDS3000X HD could still measure the 12.6 uV at 20 mA.
Best regards
egonotto
-
OK, I figured since it was posted here in this thread, there must be some reference to it.
The user mawyatt had already done something similar, albeit not with an HD scope.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/capacitive-impedance-plots-with-sds2104x-plus-bode-function/msg4335745/#msg4335745 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/capacitive-impedance-plots-with-sds2104x-plus-bode-function/msg4335745/#msg4335745)
I still think the request to Siglent contained therein is worth supporting... ;)
-
Hello,
@Martin72: In Dave's video about the HD3 (37:26), he shows a signal of 15 uV and 50 MHz in the FFT view. It can be seen there with about 15 dB above the noise.
He then shows the same signal in the MXO4, which is barely visible there.
You have an RF generator that can generate a 15 uV 50 MHz signal. Can you please try whether the signal can be made clearly visible in the SDS3000X HD in the FFT view?
Best regards
egonotto
-
A quick shot without having seen the video, I'll watch it later or tomorrow.
SSG3032X with 15µV/50Mhz, scope 50Ohm, AC.
-
Hello,
Thank you, that looks very good.
I hope that I have understood Dave correctly with 15 uV. My English is very bad.
Best regards
egonotto
-
I asked in the thread, but at the moment I think that the 15µV will be attenuated by another 12dB - and you won't see that anymore.
I played with the level again earlier, 5µV can still be clearly recognized, 1µV no longer.
-
Hello,
thanks, yes I looked at it again and it seems that there is only about 3.7 uV.
The noisefloor of the HD3 should be about 5-8 dB better at this settingv than our SDS3000X HD.
However, the HD3 no longer looks so good at 1 V/div. So twice better is not even better.
Best regards
egonotto
-
If I get the right settings, I'll try again.
-
yes I looked at it again and it seems that there is only about 3.7 uV.
as using 12 dB attenuation of 15uV... as Dave speaking
IMHO, as reading the DD3 user manual, the 64k FFT & detectors may unique on the HD3
-
In that Dave video signal is 3.7µV RMS (cca -95 dBm).
There are some parameters on the screen: bin width is 24.4kHz, 3.2 GS/s, 128k samples. Window and averaging is not specified .
With SDS3000xHD set to similar parameters: 128Kpoints, 25.02kHz Bin spacing, Von Hann, 4 averages.
Speed of FFT updates on the screen is similar to Keysight.
I think it can be seen just fine.
-
In that Dave video signal is 3.7µV RMS (cca -95 dBm).
There are some parameters on the screen: bin width is 24.4kHz, 3.2 GS/s, 128k samples. Window and averaging is not specified .
With SDS3000xHD set to similar parameters: 128Kpoints, 25.02kHz Bin spacing, Von Hann, 4 averages.
Speed of FFT updates on the screen is similar to Keysight.
I think it can be seen just fine.
Yes, misleading by Dave in that video by not putting the scopes in comparable settings/configuration.
-
Then he doesn't need to compare anything if the basic conditions are different.
Strange.
Maybe I'll be lucky and he'll answer my question.
-
I did the same with my little HD2000x HD, may be of interest for you.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5632163/#msg5632163 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5632163/#msg5632163)
-
Hello,
I think we can all agree that the result Dave showed doesn't show the advantage of 14 bit, right?
Best regards
egonotto
-
With reference to his statement in the video “And this is the difference between 14 and 12 bit ADC”, we have confirmed that this is not the case.
-
I recall he compared the output of the 14bits keysight and the 12bits R&S, with the small 50MHz FFT pulse signal.
but we see now that with a 12bits siglent HD we can see this small signal in the same conditions...
so where is the 14bits advantage ?
-
At high sensitivities like 1 mV/div, the dynamic range is determined solely by the frontend noise. Even a totally noise-free 50 ohms system (resistive noise only) cannot provide even 7 bits of dynamic at 1 GHz bandwidth. At 500 MHz it is still less than 8 bits. In practice, even the lowest noise frontends exhibit at least twice as much noise as in the previous calculation, thus reducing the dynamic by another bit. Therefore 14, 12, 10 or even 8 bits don’t make the slightest difference at 1 mV/div.
The FFT reduces the bandwidth, hence lowers the noise, so we can get more dynamic range for individual frequencies. But this is due to the process gain of the math operation and does not benefit from more ADC-bits either.
The real difference can only be seen at the lowest sensitivity without attenuator, like 100 mV/div on the Siglents. Once again, with a noise-free Frontend, we could get 13 bits of dynamic at best. With a real low noise frontend and 2 nV/√Hz the dynamic is limited to 12 bits at 1 GHz bandwidth.
Higher bit counts may be beneficial at lower bandwidths, down to 10 MHz at best, but not lower, because the noise floor rises significantly at lower frequencies. At 100 mv/div and 20MHz bandwidth, we could make use of 15 bits if we have a very low noise frontend with only 2 nV/√Hz at 20 MHz. But even at such low bandwidths, it is less than 9 bits at 1 mV/div.
Long story short: for 1 GHz bandwidth, 12 bits is the absolute maximum sensible resolution, fully exploitable only in three vertical gain settings: 100 mV, 1 and 10 V/div. More than 12 bits make sense only for low bandwidths and low sensitivities of 10 mV/div and above. Thus 14 bits is of very limited value on a general purpose DSO.
-
At high sensitivities like 1 mV/div, the dynamic range is determined solely by the frontend noise.....
One important thing to consider as to use sample "AVERAGING" !!
Using my LeCroy WM or SDA, I have to use at least of an minimal 4 times averaging, otherwise the noise gets to high.
Just to measure the rtHz FFT figures, a high amount of averaging is a must use. As you did already.
-
I went trough the HP/KS HD3 datasheet and tried to do some measurements to compare my SDS2000 HD with the published datas. Some results will follow.
But I‘m wondering if it is possible to get with FFT and Math channels rtHz Power density values from the 2000/3000 HD? :-//
I found the following LeCroy paper:
https://www.teledynelecroy.com/doc/noise-measurements-using-your-lecroy-oscilloscope (https://www.teledynelecroy.com/doc/noise-measurements-using-your-lecroy-oscilloscope)
but I‘m a little bit lost after figure 6 or 7….. :phew:
Can one of our well known expert explain if this is possible and if „yes“ how to do that?
PS: I saw the yt video from the IMSAI guy on zone triggering with the HD3. I‘m pretty happy to have this with the SDS2000/3000 HD series and before with my SDS2000X + for some time :-DD
Thanks in advance!
-
At high sensitivities like 1 mV/div, the dynamic range is determined solely by the frontend noise. Even a totally noise-free 50 ohms system (resistive noise only) cannot provide even 7 bits of dynamic at 1 GHz bandwidth. At 500 MHz it is still less than 8 bits. In practice, even the lowest noise frontends exhibit at least twice as much noise as in the previous calculation, thus reducing the dynamic by another bit. Therefore 14, 12, 10 or even 8 bits don’t make the slightest difference at 1 mV/div.
The FFT reduces the bandwidth, hence lowers the noise, so we can get more dynamic range for individual frequencies. But this is due to the process gain of the math operation and does not benefit from more ADC-bits either.
The real difference can only be seen at the lowest sensitivity without attenuator, like 100 mV/div on the Siglents. Once again, with a noise-free Frontend, we could get 13 bits of dynamic at best. With a real low noise frontend and 2 nV/√Hz the dynamic is limited to 12 bits at 1 GHz bandwidth.
Higher bit counts may be beneficial at lower bandwidths, down to 10 MHz at best, but not lower, because the noise floor rises significantly at lower frequencies. At 100 mv/div and 20MHz bandwidth, we could make use of 15 bits if we have a very low noise frontend with only 2 nV/√Hz at 20 MHz. But even at such low bandwidths, it is less than 9 bits at 1 mV/div.
Long story short: for 1 GHz bandwidth, 12 bits is the absolute maximum sensible resolution, fully exploitable only in three vertical gain settings: 100 mV, 1 and 10 V/div. More than 12 bits make sense only for low bandwidths and low sensitivities of 10 mV/div and above. Thus 14 bits is of very limited value on a general purpose DSO.
I think this should also be posted in the Keysight HD3 thread.
-
Just for fun, SDS1104X-E.... ;)
4µV/50Mhz.
The view should be enjoyed with a little caution, as the SDS1104X-E already displays various interference spectra in this range, even if no generator is active.
-
Just for fun, SDS1104X-E.... ;)
4µV/50Mhz.
The view should be enjoyed with a little caution, as the SDS1104X-E already displays various interference spectra in this range, even if no generator is active.
With a Δf of 7-8kHz many scopes can get that (not)special -105dBm including the "noisy" predecessor from HPAK. This is why the settings/configuration are so important to make the same in a fair comparison.
Sample rate, channel bandwidth, FFT length, averaging (or not), hi-res (or not), and how all of those change the bandwidth of the final measurement.
-
Like I said, just for fun...
We won't find out the right settings like in the video any time soon, because he has forgotten them...
-
Am I the only one being slightly annoyed by the constant 6.1 kHz tone from the oscilloscope (SDS3034X HD)? It's not related to the AC voltage, so I assume it's one of the small DC-DC supplies not being loaded. Loading the 5V USB supply doesn't help. Might be one of the supplies for active probes...
-
Am I the only one being slightly annoyed by the constant 6.1 kHz tone from the oscilloscope (SDS3034X HD)? It's not related to the AC voltage, so I assume it's one of the small DC-DC supplies not being loaded. Loading the 5V USB supply doesn't help. Might be one of the supplies for active probes...
Share more info please....
-
At least from my scope, there's a constant audible 6.1 kHz tone. Not loud enough to be a huge problem, but pretty annoying none the less.
Wondering if it's a general "design flow" or just my scope.
-
At least from my scope, there's a constant audible 6.1 kHz tone. Not loud enough to be a huge problem, but pretty annoying none the less.
Wondering if it's a general "design flow" or just my scope.
Can you really hear -45dB ?
Have you tried an audio analyzer app on your phone or tablet ?
Tell us what happens when you set Sound = Off.
-
Yeah it's audible when sitting at my other desk ~3 meters away. The picture attached in the previous post is indeed just captured from an audio analyzer app on the phone. The phone app also shows the 6.1 kHz peak just fine at a few meters distance.
I can't seem to find the "Sound off" option? But it's constant, even with the channels disabled, scampling stopped etc.
-
Yeah it's audible when sitting at my other desk ~3 meters away. The picture attached in the previous post is indeed just captured from an audio analyzer app on the phone. The phone app also shows the 6.1 kHz peak just fine at a few meters distance.
I can't seem to find the "Sound off" option? But it's constant, even with the channels disabled, scampling stopped etc.
Utility/System settings/Beeper
Result please ?
-
Same result unfortunatly...
Loading the +/- 12V AUX output didn't change anything either.
However, changing the LCD brightness does. If I set the LCD brightness to 0%, the tone is gone. Not really an option as it's almost impossible to see anything on the screen, but at least that seems to narrow it down.
-
Same result unfortunatly...
Loading the +/- 12V AUX output didn't change anything either.
However, changing the LCD brightness does. If I set the LCD brightness to 0%, the tone is gone. Not really an option as it's almost impossible to see anything on the screen, but at least that seems to narrow it down.
Please attempt to find a acceptable noise threshold and advise.
-
Yeah it's audible when sitting at my other desk ~3 meters away. The picture attached in the previous post is indeed just captured from an audio analyzer app on the phone. The phone app also shows the 6.1 kHz peak just fine at a few meters distance.
I can't seem to find the "Sound off" option? But it's constant, even with the channels disabled, scampling stopped etc.
Utility/System settings/Beeper
Result please ?
It has nothing to do with sounds of the scope.
Yeah it's audible when sitting at my other desk ~3 meters away. The picture attached in the previous post is indeed just captured from an audio analyzer app on the phone. The phone app also shows the 6.1 kHz peak just fine at a few meters distance.
I can't seem to find the "Sound off" option? But it's constant, even with the channels disabled, scampling stopped etc.
I never was bothered by it because I don't hear it.
So I went and measured.
At 1m distance there is slight peak at cca 6kHz but that one is at -88dB ..... So 4 orders of magnitude less than what you have. No wonder I can't hear it.
To investigate further with phone stuck right at the scope, touching it. So there is mechanical transfer too, so worst case scenario acoustically. It was no worse than -67dB.
That is 2 orders of magnitude less that what you claim at some meters.
And it is connected with screen backlight, by the way...
It is not a functional problem. It is not a general problem. It seem to be your particular scope combined with your sensitive hearing that is unlucky combination.
If it bothers you that much, please present the problem to Siglent support through vendor you purchased it from. I'm sure they will find some way to help you.
-
Anything above 10-15% screen brightness and the tone is audible. 100% brightness is actually slightly better than 50% or so.
For now, I guess 100% screen brightness is the best compromise. I will consider to send it back for replacement/repair, as it's pretty annoying when working in the lab.
-
Yeah it's audible when sitting at my other desk ~3 meters away. The picture attached in the previous post is indeed just captured from an audio analyzer app on the phone. The phone app also shows the 6.1 kHz peak just fine at a few meters distance.
I can't seem to find the "Sound off" option? But it's constant, even with the channels disabled, scampling stopped etc.
Utility/System settings/Beeper
Result please ?
It has nothing to do with sounds of the scope.
Yeah it's audible when sitting at my other desk ~3 meters away. The picture attached in the previous post is indeed just captured from an audio analyzer app on the phone. The phone app also shows the 6.1 kHz peak just fine at a few meters distance.
I can't seem to find the "Sound off" option? But it's constant, even with the channels disabled, scampling stopped etc.
I never was bothered by it because I don't hear it.
So I went and measured.
At 1m distance there is slight peak at cca 6kHz but that one is at -88dB ..... So 4 orders of magnitude less than what you have. No wonder I can't hear it.
To investigate further with phone stuck right at the scope, touching it. So there is mechanical transfer too, so worst case scenario acoustically. It was no worse than -67dB.
That is 2 orders of magnitude less that what you claim at some meters.
And it is connected with screen backlight, by the way...
It is not a functional problem. It is not a general problem. It seem to be your particular scope combined with your sensitive hearing that is unlucky combination.
If it bothers you that much, please present the problem to Siglent support through vendor you purchased it from. I'm sure they will find some way to help you.
100% but still possibly a design problem and we need to listen and feedback to HQ for their deeper tests...
-
Yeah it's audible when sitting at my other desk ~3 meters away. The picture attached in the previous post is indeed just captured from an audio analyzer app on the phone. The phone app also shows the 6.1 kHz peak just fine at a few meters distance.
I can't seem to find the "Sound off" option? But it's constant, even with the channels disabled, scampling stopped etc.
Utility/System settings/Beeper
Result please ?
It has nothing to do with sounds of the scope.
Yeah it's audible when sitting at my other desk ~3 meters away. The picture attached in the previous post is indeed just captured from an audio analyzer app on the phone. The phone app also shows the 6.1 kHz peak just fine at a few meters distance.
I can't seem to find the "Sound off" option? But it's constant, even with the channels disabled, scampling stopped etc.
I never was bothered by it because I don't hear it.
So I went and measured.
At 1m distance there is slight peak at cca 6kHz but that one is at -88dB ..... So 4 orders of magnitude less than what you have. No wonder I can't hear it.
To investigate further with phone stuck right at the scope, touching it. So there is mechanical transfer too, so worst case scenario acoustically. It was no worse than -67dB.
That is 2 orders of magnitude less that what you claim at some meters.
And it is connected with screen backlight, by the way...
It is not a functional problem. It is not a general problem. It seem to be your particular scope combined with your sensitive hearing that is unlucky combination.
If it bothers you that much, please present the problem to Siglent support through vendor you purchased it from. I'm sure they will find some way to help you.
I will get in contact with the distributor, I was mainly curious to find out if it's a general problem or specifically related to my scope. Thanks for your inputs
-
100% but still possibly a design problem and we need to listen and feedback to HQ for their deeper tests...
If it's related to the PWM frequency of the LCD dimming, it would be amazing if it can be fixed in a software update ;D. I guess 100% brightness is still dimmed to some degree, to get proper lifetime on the LCD.
-
100% but still possibly a design problem and we need to listen and feedback to HQ for their deeper tests...
If it's related to the PWM frequency of the LCD dimming, it would be amazing if it can be fixed in a software update ;D. I guess 100% brightness is still dimmed to some degree, to get proper lifetime on the LCD.
It could be a HW revision issue, can you state HW version so we we can take this to HQ for their investigation.
TIA.
-
100% but still possibly a design problem and we need to listen and feedback to HQ for their deeper tests...
If it's related to the PWM frequency of the LCD dimming, it would be amazing if it can be fixed in a software update ;D. I guess 100% brightness is still dimmed to some degree, to get proper lifetime on the LCD.
It could be a HW revision issue, can you state HW version so we we can take this to HQ for their investigation.
TIA.
Sure, hardware version 01-02. Please see attached image for further information
-
Hi,
I don't have the problem, same hardware version.
-
Yeah it's audible when sitting at my other desk ~3 meters away. The picture attached in the previous post is indeed just captured from an audio analyzer app on the phone. The phone app also shows the 6.1 kHz peak just fine at a few meters distance.
I can't seem to find the "Sound off" option? But it's constant, even with the channels disabled, scampling stopped etc.
Utility/System settings/Beeper
Result please ?
It has nothing to do with sounds of the scope.
Yeah it's audible when sitting at my other desk ~3 meters away. The picture attached in the previous post is indeed just captured from an audio analyzer app on the phone. The phone app also shows the 6.1 kHz peak just fine at a few meters distance.
I can't seem to find the "Sound off" option? But it's constant, even with the channels disabled, scampling stopped etc.
I never was bothered by it because I don't hear it.
So I went and measured.
At 1m distance there is slight peak at cca 6kHz but that one is at -88dB ..... So 4 orders of magnitude less than what you have. No wonder I can't hear it.
To investigate further with phone stuck right at the scope, touching it. So there is mechanical transfer too, so worst case scenario acoustically. It was no worse than -67dB.
That is 2 orders of magnitude less that what you claim at some meters.
And it is connected with screen backlight, by the way...
It is not a functional problem. It is not a general problem. It seem to be your particular scope combined with your sensitive hearing that is unlucky combination.
If it bothers you that much, please present the problem to Siglent support through vendor you purchased it from. I'm sure they will find some way to help you.
100% but still possibly a design problem and we need to listen and feedback to HQ for their deeper tests...
I doubt it is any kind of general design problem electrically. Some capacitors and magnetics simply sing.
My scope has exactly same frequency and I had to look for the frequency with microphone and analyser to find it, how quiet acoustically it is.
His scope might simply miss a drop of glue or some peculiarity with soldering or whatever. There might be some variation with his scope specifically but it is not a general design problem, or all of them would have it. But he should report it to Siglent because they might want to know to see if there is some manufacturing issue for a batch or simply his is statistical anomaly.
He might have unlucky component that so happens to sing at that exact frequency.
If that screen PWM frequency is under software control, this might even be solved with nudging PWM frequency few 100Hz up or down, out of mechanical resonance of the "singer"..
-
Clearly the fan in those scopes is too quiet! ;)
-
Clearly the fan in those scopes is too quiet! ;)
They are second quietest after 2000xHD that is completely silent at normal temps.
And as cooler weather comes in it gets more quiet..
-
Yes, the 2000X HD is the quietest I've ever heard.
The 3000er first brutally high, then quieter.
“Reports” but from time to time again. ;)
-
Hello,
I just noticed that the SDS3000X HD has a USB 3.0 device port, while the SDS7000A H12 only has a USB 2.0 device port.
Best regards
egonotto
-
I just noticed that the SDS3000X HD has a USB 3.0 device port, while the SDS7000A H12 only has a USB 2.0 device port.
The SDS7000A lists USB2.0 as something supported by serial decoding. The blue USB ports it has are usually at least USB3.0, different shades may mean different versions.
-
Hello,
I am only talking about the USB 2.0 device port.
The manual 6.3 Rear Panel Overview says:
"H. USB 2.0 Device: Connects with a PC for remote control"
The picture also shows the socket in white and not blue.
Best regards
egonotto
-
I guess they don't need that much throughput for device control. 😉 USB2.0 is 480Mbps.
-
7000A has two Ethernet ports...
I don't use USB if I can Ethernet.. Just saying.
-
7000A has two Ethernet ports...
I don't use USB if I can Ethernet.. Just saying.
It really doesn't matter considering the scopes don't utilize the speed, but USB3.0 is faster than Gigabit LAN, and USB2.0 is faster than 100M LAN.
Either way, I also prefer ethernet over USB.
-
7000A has two Ethernet ports...
I don't use USB if I can Ethernet.. Just saying.
It really doesn't matter considering the scopes don't utilize the speed, but USB3.0 is faster than Gigabit LAN, and USB2.0 is faster than 100M LAN.
Either way, I also prefer ethernet over USB.
I know that theoretic speed is faster. But Gigabit Ethernet is very convenient and fast enough for what I do..
-
I know that theoretic speed is faster. But Gigabit Ethernet is very convenient and fast enough for what I do..
I prefer the ethernet either way. Though I wish Siglent would allow us to increase the framerate on the web console. ~15fps isn't enough, I want at least up to 60fps as an option.
-
Can someone check if the SDS3K HD has the same problem:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5657313/#msg5657313 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5657313/#msg5657313)
Thanks.
-
I can take a photo later.
-
A picture of the SDS3000X BNC connector
-
Can someone check if the SDS3K HD has the same problem:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5657313/#msg5657313 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg5657313/#msg5657313)
Thanks.
As I answered in that other topic, no piece of Siglent equipment that I have here has that problem including SDS2000xHD.
Even 800xHD has nice conicaly chamfered entry to guid the pin in.
-
A member sent me these BW sweeps made in a SDS3104X HD.
"... a tracking generator sweeping and the scope running continuous FFT with peak hold. While not perfect, it's enough to get a pretty good idea about the frequency response of the scope.
... manually changing the frequency and noticing the Vrms of the signal, that also indicated a -3 dB cutoff around 1250 MHz."
-
I’ve read most of this thread - apologies if this is detailed and I missed it - but has anyone tried out the “USB 2.0 decoding” functionality of the 3000HD yet? I can’t really find detailed reviews…
I have a 2000HD myself and was speccing a new similar or higher scope for work. This feature - if good - could be really interesting in my case!
I know other PC-attached USB protocol analysers do nice jobs filtering all the crazy number of different USB/class-type messages so you don’t go crazy testing a USB device spitting out so many messages. I was wondering if a scope with USB decode would even come close or if it’s something very basic like decoding to HEX/ASCII…
EDIT: Also wondering if USB decode *requires* the 1GHz unlock first as presumably 240MHz clock (or whatever USB 2.0 is) might need highest bandwidth to decode properly…
-
I’ve read most of this thread - apologies if this is detailed and I missed it - but has anyone tried out the “USB 2.0 decoding” functionality of the 3000HD yet? I can’t really find detailed reviews…
I have a 2000HD myself and was speccing a new similar or higher scope for work. This feature - if good - could be really interesting in my case!
I know other PC-attached USB protocol analysers do nice jobs filtering all the crazy number of different USB/class-type messages so you don’t go crazy testing a USB device spitting out so many messages. I was wondering if a scope with USB decode would even come close or if it’s something very basic like decoding to HEX/ASCII…
EDIT: Also wondering if USB decode *requires* the 1GHz unlock first as presumably 240MHz clock (or whatever USB 2.0 is) might need highest bandwidth to decode properly…
AFAIK, SDS7000A does but SDS3000xHD does not support USB decoding at this time...
240Mhz is recovered clock frequency and pulses are square wave so in order to be able to see at least 5th harmonic (so signal at least resembles something at least similar to square), 1.2 GHz BW would be needed.
-
AFAIK, SDS7000A does but SDS3000xHD does not support USB decoding at this time...
240Mhz is recovered clock frequency and pulses are square wave so in order to be able to see at least 5th harmonic (so signal at least resembles something at least similar to square), 1.2 GHz BW would be needed.
Ah that's a shame - but yeah what you say makes sense...
I was trying to find where on earth I got the idea it did USB 2.0 decoding and it seems there is a PDF on the Siglent (EU) website here (https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/03/highres_Customer_Intro.pdf) that, on page 25, shows a comparison of their various 12-bit scopes. The USB 2.0 decode option is clearly noted in both the SDS3000X-HD & the SDS7000A...
However checking the manuals it definitely seems only the 7000A has anything written here...
I'm wondering is @tautech may know more? I will send an email to Siglent EU anyhow... It reminds me of looking at the SHA850A spectrum analyser recently where they added some EMI features after and the manual still has no mention of them...
Anyway, ramble aside, I'll remain an optimistic fool and will report back if they give me a clear answer!
-
That's a lazy copypasta error in what I assume is an outdated doc. Check this one: https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/05/Siglent-time-domain-products-catalog-2024-05.pdf
-
]AFAIK, SDS7000A does but SDS3000xHD does not support USB decoding at this time...
240Mhz is recovered clock frequency and pulses are square wave so in order to be able to see at least 5th harmonic (so signal at least resembles something at least similar to square), 1.2 GHz BW would be needed.
Could just work... ;)
That's why I was surprised in the Magnova thread that it was said there that the USB protocol would be added later... at a maximum of 350Mhz bandwidth, that's a pretty ambitious thought, or they meant USB1.0.
That would also be possible for the 3000.
-
AFAIK, SDS7000A does but SDS3000xHD does not support USB decoding at this time...
240Mhz is recovered clock frequency and pulses are square wave so in order to be able to see at least 5th harmonic (so signal at least resembles something at least similar to square), 1.2 GHz BW would be needed.
Ah that's a shame - but yeah what you say makes sense...
I was trying to find where on earth I got the idea it did USB 2.0 decoding and it seems there is a PDF on the Siglent (EU) website here (https://www.siglenteu.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/03/highres_Customer_Intro.pdf) that, on page 25, shows a comparison of their various 12-bit scopes. The USB 2.0 decode option is clearly noted in both the SDS3000X-HD & the SDS7000A...
However checking the manuals it definitely seems only the 7000A has anything written here...
I'm wondering is @tautech may know more? I will send an email to Siglent EU anyhow... It reminds me of looking at the SHA850A spectrum analyser recently where they added some EMI features after and the manual still has no mention of them...
Anyway, ramble aside, I'll remain an optimistic fool and will report back if they give me a clear answer!
I personally can not confirm nor deny if that is in the cards or not. I simply do not have that information.
I know it does not have it now as we speak, and same for SDS6000A that is model up the chain.
6000A has 2GHz BW and it definitely should be able to sample fast enough. But there are other considerations so BW is not only choice maker.
And, in reference to your SA story, I am not quoting datasheet, I looked into scopes on their last FW.
-
]AFAIK, SDS7000A does but SDS3000xHD does not support USB decoding at this time...
240Mhz is recovered clock frequency and pulses are square wave so in order to be able to see at least 5th harmonic (so signal at least resembles something at least similar to square), 1.2 GHz BW would be needed.
Could just work... ;)
That's why I was surprised in the Magnova thread that it was said there that the USB protocol would be added later... at a maximum of 350Mhz bandwidth, that's a pretty ambitious thought, or they meant USB1.0.
That would also be possible for the 3000.
Like I said, 1GHz version of 3000xHD could marginally have enough BW to be able to decode but there are other considerations in addition to just BW alone. The future will show.
For Magnova, they meant USB 1.0 (Low speed & Full speed) probably.
My 1GHz Keysight MSOX3104T supports only USB PD.
-
I also think that this is more of a nice-to-have, there are other more interesting things for me that I would like to see in 3000X.
-
I guess USB 2.0 decoding should work just fine, as long as you have a bandwidth around 240MHz (or better). Sure, you will not be able to validate signal integrity, but that's a completely different thing.
However, I've not seen any USB 2.0 decoding options for the SDS3000, guess they will keep that for the "pro" models.
-
Anyway, ramble aside, I'll remain an optimistic fool and will report back if they give me a clear answer!
Already got a reply from the Siglent EU person I've dealt with before!
And the winner is...........KungFuJosh
Exact reply from Siglent:
"It’s a copy paste error."
So R.I.P. this little feature - but at-least now we know!
-
I guess USB 2.0 decoding should work just fine, as long as you have a bandwidth around 240MHz (or better). Sure, you will not be able to validate signal integrity, but that's a completely different thing.
However, I've not seen any USB 2.0 decoding options for the SDS3000, guess they will keep that for the "pro" models.
That is absolutely not enough BW for reliable decoding and triggering. This is not 240MHz sinewave.
Here are the scopes that have cca 270MHz, 370MHz, 650MHZ and slightly more than 1GHz BW:
With low bandwidth, eye starts to close vertically because of slow edges. Also, if BW is insufficient, DC bias starts to wonder, because not all PRBS combinations are DC balanced (exact point in testing with PRBS).
Looking at these results, I would say that in order to start decoding with any reliability, 500 MHz+ BW would be some start figure..
You could decode with less, but reliability might suffer. And even miniscule problems with probing and bus load will create all kinds of problems.
These are with PRBS signal that has edges risetime set at 1ns.
If we set signal to have 500ps risetime (with USB2.0 High speed you might have edges with 300ps risetimes), then 2000xHD starts getting confused with risetime being detected from 300ps to 4.7ns, very wide spread....
It is obvious is struggles, even with 650MHz BW.
But decoder might still work with this...
So I would say it is plausible that 500-600MHz scope might be able to decode USB2.0 High speed type of signal.
With caveat that this is with signal gen directly connected to scope with coax, X1 probe ratio. Spherical cow in vacuum scenario.
Any decrease in BW related to probing before scope input will contribute to decreased system BW and add noise.
For reliable signal integrity, you need 2-4GHz (110-250 ps risetime) scope because of cca 300ps edges in USB 2.0 High Speed. And matching active diff probe...
But thing is that USB is very busy protocol. Decoding it in scope would be very cumbersome. Scope is more useful here for exactly SI check and those lower BW scopes cannot do it right. And decoding and triggering on the scope in this context is more meant for to be able to troubleshoot across electrical and software/protocol domains. Trying to figure out why specific message has problems and double checking it is not SI stuff. Or the other way around, seeing SI problem and figuring out where it will manifest itself..
But troubleshooting and debugging complex software by using scope to decode 10s of thousands USB datagrams is not very efficient.
So manufacturers don't really press for decoding if scope can not also do proper SI...
-
Hi, I saved the sds3034x hd screen in csv format, then I recalled the saved file and it gave me the message "illegal file format".
I can open the saved csv file on the web page.
It can't load this format?
Can you save your own screen and try? Thanks.
-
Hi, I saved the sds3034x hd screen in csv format, then I recalled the saved file and it gave me the message "illegal file format".
I can open the saved csv file on the web page.
It can't load this format?
No not supported.
Can you save your own screen and try? Thanks.
Save as Ref file which can be recalled.
Edit to add
SigScopeLab Signal Analysis Software might do what your require....haven't had a real play with it. :-[
https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/pc-software/#sigscopelab (https://www.siglenteu.com/service-and-support/firmware-software/pc-software/#sigscopelab)
-
I tried with SigScopeLab, it still gives the same message
-
I tried with SigScopeLab, it still gives the same message
Please share in detail your full requirements for a saved/captured CSV file.
-
The file size is 60MB, uploading it here may be tiring, but you can save any screenshot in csv format and try it, there is no special situation.
-
The file size is 60MB, uploading it here may be tiring, but you can save any screenshot in csv format and try it, there is no special situation.
BIN files can also be saved and have the advantage of being much smaller than CSV.
In the Save/Recall menu and in the webserver there is a BIN to CSV convertor app for install to PC for doing these conversions.
Neither BIN or CSV can be uploaded/opened with the scope as they are intended for post capture PC analysis.
-
I used Tektronix MDO4000 for a long time, you can use it by both saving and restoring.
-
I used Tektronix MDO4000 for a long time, you can use it by both saving and restoring.
You are trying to load capture back in scope?
Why? What do you want to do with ?
-
I used Tektronix MDO4000 for a long time, you can use it by both saving and restoring.
Reference files perform this without being of excessive size for this need.
Locally you can store IIRC 10 to the DSO memory and as many as you like remotely or to USB should you need multiple reference waveforms for comparison tasks.
Utility>Save/Recall is where you can select to save or recall a Ref waveform.
-
I used Tektronix MDO4000 for a long time, you can use it by both saving and restoring.
Reference files perform this without being of excessive size for this need.
Locally you can store IIRC 10 to the DSO memory and as many as you like remotely or to USB should you need multiple reference waveforms for comparison tasks.
Utility>Save/Recall is where you can select to save or recall a Ref waveform.
Reference is fine but exactly because it is not original data, it is limited what you can do with it. It has it's use and merits but original data it is not.
And yes, on 3000xHD you can save full waveform data to USB and load it back to scope.
That is why I want explanation what @pasha wants to do with it and how he would use it.
So I can give explanation how to achieve that.
But only binary files are supported. CSV is not because it is large and inefficient. CSV is there to support easy export of data and loading to some software that universally will support CVS.
So short answer is, yes you can load full scope captures back to scope, but only BIN is supported (that is also better way because it is much smaller and faster to load).
Also loaded captures do not get loaded into acquisition channel (CH1 for instance). Those are exclusively dedicated acquisition channels, hardware ones. You load data to Memory channels, and use it from there.
Memory channels are similar in appearance to Ref channels, but they contain full data from capture.
You can copy from live channel or load from disk.
In use Memory channel can be used same as live channel. In math, measurements, decode.....
-
@2N3055
I will transfer the data to the PC and apply various filters.
I want to navigate through this data and make visual analysis with an oscilloscope without needing a PC. As you said, the csv format is universal.
Is the restored data original (for .bin format)?
-
@2N3055
Is the restored data original (for .bin format)?
Thank you for the answer.
Yes if you save BIN, and load it back to Memory channel, it is full original data.
BIN data is documented. You can load it on PC too if you are making your own program
-
I have a PC program that I created by reading the CSV format line by line. I have no idea how to read bin format on PC. You can recommend the csv format for this, but this time it creates a mess of two different reference files.
anyway, I will find a way.
thanks for all.
-
I have a PC program that I created by reading the CSV format line by line. I have no idea how to read bin format on PC. You can recommend the csv format for this, but this time it creates a mess of two different reference files.
anyway, I will find a way.
thanks for all.
Because you missed this or it didn't sink in:
The file size is 60MB, uploading it here may be tiring, but you can save any screenshot in csv format and try it, there is no special situation.
BIN files can also be saved and have the advantage of being much smaller than CSV.
In the Save/Recall menu and in the webserver there is a BIN to CSV convertor app for install to PC for doing these conversions.
-
Hello,
is it possible that the Siglent SDS3000X HD only zooms at 500 uV/div?
The images of the noise at 500 uV/div, 1 mV/div, 2 mV/div and 5 mV/div make me suspect this. The counts-peak-peak are very similar at 500 uV/div and 1 mV/div.
Best regards
egonotto