Siglent SDS6000A DSO's 500MHz-2GHz

[AaronLee]

Try the touch screen (and the data entry for things like offset). Separate controls for everything is overrated

Perhaps I just need more time to get used to it. With all the scopes I've used in the past having separate controls, that way of operating has become engrained in my mind and is second nature. Until now it's still awkward to not have those controls, but it's only been a month that I've had my SDS2104X+, so maybe you're right.

[2N3055]

Try the touch screen (and the data entry for things like offset). Separate controls for everything is overrated

Perhaps I just need more time to get used to it. With all the scopes I've used in the past having separate controls, that way of operating has become engrained in my mind and is second nature. Until now it's still awkward to not have those controls, but it's only been a month that I've had my SDS2104X+, so maybe you're right.

I think getting used to it is the key. If you take a look, pretty much all the new scopes are going that direction. First thing is that new scopes have MUCH larger screens than old ones.
Unless you want to make a really huge scope, space gets scarce on front panel.
And also, it isn't really slower. I never really understood why people change settings on a scope all the time, some so fast that they don't even have time to see what the change was..
If you look at some of the videos, some people nervously twiddle knobs left and right all the time.. At a pace that scope doesn't really stay at one setting more than a fraction of the second. I wonder what they saw on the screen in that 1/10 of the second. I guess ninja reflexes, or whatnot. I cannot do it that way.
I also don't simply twiddle knobs just to see what is going to happen. Usually there is a thought process behind the action.
I'm not judging, just saying there are different people, who use scope differently.

When I first started using shared vertical control scope, it was weird too. Today, I routinely switch back and forth to a scope with individual controls and one with shared one. And Picoscopes that don't even have a single button (PC based, all screen and keyboard). And not for a second I find any of those to be superior or worse.  They are just different, and once you get used to it, they ALL feel natural, and are fast to use.
That should not be major factor to choose scope. Whoever tells you differently just didn't gave themselves a time to get used to it. That is my experience.
If someone doesn't want to get used to different things and they are set in their ways, that is a valid choice, but it is by choice.

Same as when people say Keysight has the most intuitive GUI. It doesn't. User manual that shows only basic stuff is 300-400 pages long. Most of the stuff I had to learn by heart and took me quite a lot of time. It is just that Keysight is a major player and most people used Keysight at least at one point in their life. So it is more familiar, not so much intuitive.

[Sighound36]

The question here is will these scopes have 12 bit reolustion outside China?

[tautech]

Try the touch screen (and the data entry for things like offset). Separate controls for everything is overrated

Perhaps I just need more time to get used to it. With all the scopes I've used in the past having separate controls, that way of operating has become engrained in my mind and is second nature. Until now it's still awkward to not have those controls, but it's only been a month that I've had my SDS2104X+, so maybe you're right.

A few tips if I may;
Use a USB mouse with the X Plus then instead of pressing buttons to select channels you can just click on the channel tab to bring that channel to be active with the vertical control.
Also for any alphanumeric box a click will pop up the virtual keyboard for which you can either use touch or click on the keys. You'll also find a mouse scroll wheel much faster in the longer menus that sport the blue scroll line at far right.
Sometimes it can be useful to overlay a waveform a little on another and when doing so the active channel is always the one overlaying all others.
However more time with it will pay off and in no time all this becomes second nature.

[Inn0vator]

Glad they kept the active probe interface on the scope.  I would like to see more supported probes.  The only interfacing probe currently is a non-differential 1Ghz probe .  Would like to see them add the CP5030 to this interface.  Also, if the scopes ran barrier (software KVM) desk setups would be super nice.  Use the same mouse for you scope as you do for your local machine.

When's this SDS6000 being released?

[2N3055]

Glad they kept the active probe interface on the scope.  I would like to see more supported probes.  The only interfacing probe currently is a non-differential 1Ghz probe .  Would like to see them add the CP5030 to this interface.  Also, if the scopes ran barrier (software KVM) desk setups would be super nice.  Use the same mouse for you scope as you do for your local machine.

All Siglent touch scopes run VNC as remote protocol. That is remote control protocol that is standard in the industry.. And it runs at very fast frame rate.. No need for proprietary solutions..

[tautech]

OP info updated and datasheet attached.

[tautech]

Any plans for eye or Jitter at all?

Optional:
Eye Diagram/Jitter Analysis (software) SDS6000Pro-EJ

[mawyatt]

Is this new DSO based upon a core 5GSPS 8 bit ADC and "somehow" augmented up to 16 bit resolution at much lower bandwidths? Curious about the "somehow" and it's implementation, and wonder how well the effective ENOB behaves with the augmentation. More specifically how well the 8M FFT dynamic range behaves with the augmentation??

Also, any idea of what the price range will be??

Best,

[Martin72]

I´m afraid, even the 500Mhz is way out of range what price concerns...
Speaking for me, I was interested in the SDS5000 350Mhz and it´s price is the very last I would spend for my hobby interests.
Luckywise the SDS2K+ cames up and saves my money...
So when I want to go a step more forward, probably I must change to the forthcoming one.
But it´s price...
Remarkable fact for all siglent fans with more budget to pay :
Actually, the lecroy wavesurfer 3024Z is under 5000 bucks....

Offtopic:

OP info updated and datasheet attached.

In every other forum I´ve been, the threadstarter is always marked as "Threadstarter" - Here is the only forum I know, where you have to seek/going to the very first post, when you want to know, who is the starter..

[MT]

Wish Siglent could do plain flat scope box variants , connectors in and out, no screen, no buttons.

[tautech]

Wish Siglent could do plain flat scope box variants , connectors in and out, no screen, no buttons.

The inbuilt websever or VNC operation allows for this as you don't need access to the instrument to operate it.

[mubes]

Just spotted this;



...first video I've personally seen on this thing.

DAVE

[luudee]

Is this new DSO based upon a core 5GSPS 8 bit ADC and "somehow" augmented up to 16 bit resolution at much lower bandwidths? Curious about the "somehow" and it's implementation, and wonder how well the effective ENOB behaves with the augmentation. More specifically how well the 8M FFT dynamic range behaves with the augmentation??

Also, any idea of what the price range will be??

Best,

You can double the resolution of the ADC by either interpolation (probably not fast enough) or by
bonding two ADC. In that case, you would most likely be able to use only 2 channels in high-res mode.

Another option would be to actually use a 16 bit ADC (which might not be fast enough for full bandwidth),
and you get high-rs mode only at half the bandwidth ...

I would have expected them to use a 12 or 14 bit ADC, like so many others are ...

In any case, I am eagerly awaiting that baby !!!  When will they start taking orders, lol

rudi

[luudee]

Wish Siglent could do plain flat scope box variants , connectors in and out, no screen, no buttons.

I am glad they are investing in a 12" LCD screen. I'd be even happier with a larger screen, lol

Hanket makes "black box" scopes if you don't like the screen and UI ...

Cheers,
rudi

[tautech]

Is this new DSO based upon a core 5GSPS 8 bit ADC and "somehow" augmented up to 16 bit resolution at much lower bandwidths? Curious about the "somehow" and it's implementation, and wonder how well the effective ENOB behaves with the augmentation. More specifically how well the 8M FFT dynamic range behaves with the augmentation??

Also, any idea of what the price range will be??

Best,

You can double the resolution of the ADC by either interpolation (probably not fast enough) or by
bonding two ADC. In that case, you would most likely be able to use only 2 channels in high-res mode.

Another option would be to actually use a 16 bit ADC (which might not be fast enough for full bandwidth),
and you get high-rs mode only at half the bandwidth ...

I would have expected them to use a 12 or 14 bit ADC, like so many others are ...

In any case, I am eagerly awaiting that baby !!!  When will they start taking orders, lol

rudi

Only 8 bit models coming with additional oversampling ERES bits and you can place orders for these now.
Official release is not far away. 

[nctnico]

Is this new DSO based upon a core 5GSPS 8 bit ADC and "somehow" augmented up to 16 bit resolution at much lower bandwidths? Curious about the "somehow" and it's implementation, and wonder how well the effective ENOB behaves with the augmentation. More specifically how well the 8M FFT dynamic range behaves with the augmentation??

Also, any idea of what the price range will be??

Best,

You can double the resolution of the ADC by either interpolation (probably not fast enough) or by
bonding two ADC. In that case, you would most likely be able to use only 2 channels in high-res mode.

No, it doesn't work that way. Think about a DC level sitting between 2 ADC levels. No amount of oversampling will give you extra resolution needed to resolve the DC level more accurately. And then there are ADC unlinearities. In the end an 8 bit ADC is designed to provide you with 256 levels. Anything more is overkill.

[bdunham7]

No amount of oversampling will give you extra resolution needed to resolve the DC level more accurately.

It will if you add some noise for dithering...

[nctnico]

No amount of oversampling will give you extra resolution needed to resolve the DC level more accurately.

It will if you add some noise for dithering...

But noise is something you don't want in a DSO. ADCs and oscilloscope front-ends get pretty low noise even on the cheaper models. The Tektronix TDS500/700 series from the early 90's already had a lack of noise to do proper high-res with the 20MHz bandwidth limiter on. Putting a higher end oscilloscope on the market with only 8 bits kind of makes it outdated from the start nowadays. Probably Lecroy wants to prevent Siglent to put the 10 bit and 12 bit models on the non-Chinese market but IMHO that is a good reason for Siglent to rethink their partnership with Lecroy.

[jjoonathan]

When was the last time you saw a perfectly flat trace with 0LSB of wiggle on a functioning oscilloscope?

Manufacturers minimize noise subject to the constraint of having enough noise for dithering.

[nctnico]

When was the last time you saw a perfectly flat trace with 0LSB of wiggle on a functioning oscilloscope?

Manufacturers minimize noise subject to the constraint of having enough noise for dithering.

The reality is that you can't guarantee that in an acquisition system with an unknown source like a DSO is dealing with. For oversampling to work you'll need evenly distributed noise. Turn on the bandwidth limiter and that condition may no longer be met. Same goes for a very low noise signal source for which the extra bits of resolution would be beneficial. My good old Tektronix 744A would show all kinds of fantasy signals when it didn't have enough noise for oversampling.

[Performa01]

There's no need for speculation regarding the Highres Mode.

I've already demonstrated how well the resolution enhancement works in the SDS2000X Plus - a scope that isn't exactly known to be noisy, even less so with low sensitivities like 300 mV/div or 960 mV/div.

10 Bit Mode (reply #32):

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2786952/#msg2786952

10 Bit Mode further enhanced to 16 bits by ERES 3.0 (reply #62):

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2857298/#msg2857298

[mawyatt]

Asked because the HiRes mode is most useful with the FFT. Really would like to know what the effective ENOB is at the various ERES levels speculation aside, this will indicate how well the "method" Siglent utilized behaves.

Do know this works quite well with the SDS2000+ as Performa01 indicates. However, this may not be a direct comparison to the new SDS6000 series since resolution enhancement by means of oversampling & dithering depends on many factors, one of which is the core ADC performance which is obviously not the same ADC utilized in the SDS2000+ series.


Best

[tautech]

Glad they kept the active probe interface on the scope.  I would like to see more supported probes.  The only interfacing probe currently is a non-differential 1Ghz probe .

New active probes are on the way, 2.5 GHz single ended and differential.
https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/active-probes/

LeCroy and Tek active probes are supported via adapters.
https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/probe-adapters/

When's this SDS6000 being released ?

Taking orders for them now and SDS6000A info is now up on all Siglent websites.

[kcbrown]

Taking orders for them now and SDS6000A info is now up on all Siglent websites.

The Siglent NA site says "Call for a quote" under the price.

Which, of course, means "if you have to ask, you can't afford it!"