You shouldn´t take some things too seriously, especially in forums...
I don't know what you find so funny …
Maybe it’s because you seem to want to challenge an upper midrange 2 GHz MSO with a 5 ns pulse – a test scenario more commonly found when checking the base functionality of a 200 MHz entry level DSO?
And hence my comment about his ignorance, because I'm not interested in the edge response but what comes after that to see if reflections happen, so 1ns or 5ns rise time is ok.
Also for the 10us/div I'm interested in the flatness of the pulse as this low frequency area is common to have non flat frequency responses in many scopes due to non-linear capacitances in the boards where the attenuators are built.
So never assume what other knows or does not know, and laughing at others for asking just shows sheer stupidity, besides the aforementioned ignorance.
This is a very nice new scope from Siglent ... BUT
- for a professional scope, it lacks the 10 MHz ref in/out. SRSLY? The smaller model SDS5000X has it.
- interface to PC is only USB2 ... or Fast Ethernet (100 Mbit)? This is a major limitation on all their other scopes. Many RIGOLs at least have Gbit LAN (but only USB2)
- Sequence mode was quite limited last time I checked, especially fetching traces could only be done one trace at a time; they got this fixed as per my request for the SDS5000X; not sure how this is implemented in the SDS6000A
Now look at the LeCroy scopes: they have very limited memory compared to the SDS6000A but typically have the three aspects that I just named. So clearly, this is a marketing issue, as LeCroy can still charge a lot of $$$ for providing deeper memory.
For many professional users relying on automated measurements (where throughput matters and 10 MHz synchronization to other devices), this scope simply is not going to cut it. It is a shame, since otherwise I would have bought it. In terms of bang-for-buck, I think a PicoScope 6404D or the 6000E series is the better choice -- all software upgrades are for free for the whole lifetime of the product. The 6404D is currently only 3775 EUR through the PicoAssured program ... only downside is that this will get you 8 bit only.
I'm just hugely disappointed that a feature that costs <$5 to implement (if at all) was not included.
This is a very nice new scope from Siglent ... BUT
- for a professional scope, it lacks the 10 MHz ref in/out. SRSLY? The smaller model SDS5000X has it.
the point of the 10 MHz ref in/out is not to improve the timebase, it is about synchronizing multiple devices (e.g., scope, AWG, digital pattern generator, etc.). This is important for time-synchronous sampling and everything where you rely on controlled phase-shift of signals / measurements. I'm just hugely disappointed that a feature that costs <$5 to implement (if at all)
was not included. Just look at all professional scopes from the premium companies (Keysight, Tektronix, LeCroy). They always have it on their "better" scopes. Same for the USB3 / Gbit LAN. This is crippling an otherwise super nice oscilloscope for no reason.
the point of the 10 MHz ref in/out is not to improve the timebase, it is about synchronizing multiple devices (e.g., scope, AWG, digital pattern generator, etc.). This is important for time-synchronous sampling and everything where you rely on controlled phase-shift of signals / measurements. I'm just hugely disappointed that a feature that costs <$5 to implement (if at all) was not included. Just look at all professional scopes from the premium companies (Keysight, Tektronix, LeCroy). They always have it on their "better" scopes. Same for the USB3 / Gbit LAN. This is crippling an otherwise super nice oscilloscope for no reason. The PicoScope 6404D I mentioned because it is just 3775 EUR for 500 MHz, 5 GS/s, 2 Gpts memory, and 8 bit ADCs; whereas the Siglent SDS6054A for 6480 EUR has 500 MHz, 5 GS/s, 500 Mpts, and 12 bit ADCs.
Why would I pay approx. 2700 EUR more for essentially the same specs. The 12 bit ADC vs. 8 bit ADC is only a degradation in signal fidelity. The lack of synchronization in the SDS6054A is a hard fact that cannot be compensated otherwise. Plus: it is the year 2022 with USB4. Selling something without USB3 or Gbit LAN for connecting it to my PC ... jeez. What is the product life cycle of this scope? 5 years? By that time we will probably have USB5 and this junk still uses USB2. Ridiculous.
the point of the 10 MHz ref in/out is not to improve the timebase, it is about synchronizing multiple devices (e.g., scope, AWG, digital pattern generator, etc.). This is important for time-synchronous sampling and everything where you rely on controlled phase-shift of signals / measurements. I'm just hugely disappointed that a feature that costs <$5 to implement (if at all)This is not relevant on an oscilloscope. An oscilloscope triggers on an edge from which all channels are sampled synchronously / time related. If the oscilloscope's internal clock isn't very stable, it could make sense to have an external 10MHz input but for measurements with a relatively long timespan. However with a good internal clock, you might end up adding more jitter compared to the internal timebase. For some projects I do edge-to-edge measurements in the tens of ps range (not with a Siglent scope) and what is hindering me for such measurements is the (inherent) trigger jitter. Using an external clock doesn't solve that.Quotewas not included. Just look at all professional scopes from the premium companies (Keysight, Tektronix, LeCroy). They always have it on their "better" scopes. Same for the USB3 / Gbit LAN. This is crippling an otherwise super nice oscilloscope for no reason.Gbit / USB3 is only necessary if the device can actually use all that bandwidth. Fun fact: the R&S RTB2004 comes with a 1Gbit ethernet interface and yet the GW Instek GDS2000E series can pump out data several times faster even though it has a 100Mbit ethernet interface. I strongly doubt any of the examples you list can dump waveform data fast enough to max out a 100Mbit ethernet link.
the point of the 10 MHz ref in/out is not to improve the timebase, it is about synchronizing multiple devices (e.g., scope, AWG, digital pattern generator, etc.). This is important for time-synchronous sampling and everything where you rely on controlled phase-shift of signals / measurements. I'm just hugely disappointed that a feature that costs <$5 to implement (if at all) was not included. Just look at all professional scopes from the premium companies (Keysight, Tektronix, LeCroy). They always have it on their "better" scopes. Same for the USB3 / Gbit LAN. This is crippling an otherwise super nice oscilloscope for no reason. The PicoScope 6404D I mentioned because it is just 3775 EUR for 500 MHz, 5 GS/s, 2 Gpts memory, and 8 bit ADCs; whereas the Siglent SDS6054A for 6480 EUR has 500 MHz, 5 GS/s, 500 Mpts, and 12 bit ADCs.
Why would I pay approx. 2700 EUR more for essentially the same specs. The 12 bit ADC vs. 8 bit ADC is only a degradation in signal fidelity. The lack of synchronization in the SDS6054A is a hard fact that cannot be compensated otherwise. Plus: it is the year 2022 with USB4. Selling something without USB3 or Gbit LAN for connecting it to my PC ... jeez. What is the product life cycle of this scope? 5 years? By that time we will probably have USB5 and this junk still uses USB2. Ridiculous.
I'm just hugely disappointed that a feature that costs <$5 to implement (if at all) was not included.
Seriously ? How ?
I would like to know how this can be done for less than $5...
Just from the reference 10MHz I need to make a clock for the ADC converter (ADC08D100 - only 2GSPS https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/adc08d1000.pdf ).
Of course with low phase noise etc. This solution is simpler than in the SDS6000A, so I will be happy to find out how it can be done so cheaply.
I hope I will learn something interesting, and this amount is not some guesses of a person who has never designed a system with fast ADC...
I'm just hugely disappointed that a feature that costs <$5 to implement (if at all) was not included.
Seriously ? How ?
I would like to know how this can be done for less than $5...
Just from the reference 10MHz I need to make a clock for the ADC converter (ADC08D100 - only 2GSPS https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/adc08d1000.pdf ).
Of course with low phase noise etc. This solution is simpler than in the SDS6000A, so I will be happy to find out how it can be done so cheaply.
I hope I will learn something interesting, and this amount is not some guesses of a person who has never designed a system with fast ADC...
All the PLL stuff to generate the ADC clock is already in the scope. Typically there is just a switch that flips between the standard internal time-base (some TCXO?) and external-time base.
If this would be so expensive, why do you think the cheaper SDS5000X has it? On the AWG-side of things: even the SDG1000X has it (which is as low as $359). BTW, most/all SDRs that often deal with much higher frequencies than the SDS6000A have this, too.
Example: Ettus B210 schematic
https://files.ettus.com/schematics/b200/b210.pdf
I think if users would have read my comment carefully...
I think if users would have read my comment carefully...
I've already disclosed the main reasons why there is no reference clock in/out on the SDS6000.
[...]
The block transfer of the entire history will be supported with SDS6000 FW 1.4.4.0 or higher.
But you may find that even with the external reference, it may not actually work as expected on the specific examples you list... Due to limited synthesizer resolution and/or rounding errors, you can end up with small frequency offsets.
I'm just hugely disappointed that a feature that costs <$5 to implement (if at all) was not included.
Seriously ? How ?
I would like to know how this can be done for less than $5...
Just from the reference 10MHz I need to make a clock for the ADC converter (ADC08D100 - only 2GSPS https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/adc08d1000.pdf ).
Of course with low phase noise etc. This solution is simpler than in the SDS6000A, so I will be happy to find out how it can be done so cheaply.
I hope I will learn something interesting, and this amount is not some guesses of a person who has never designed a system with fast ADC...
All the PLL stuff to generate the ADC clock is already in the scope. Typically there is just a switch that flips between the standard internal time-base (some TCXO?) and external-time base.
If this would be so expensive, why do you think the cheaper SDS5000X has it? On the AWG-side of things: even the SDG1000X has it (which is as low as $359). BTW, most/all SDRs that often deal with much higher frequencies than the SDS6000A have this, too.
Example: Ettus B210 schematic
https://files.ettus.com/schematics/b200/b210.pdf
But you may find that even with the external reference, it may not actually work as expected on the specific examples you list... Due to limited synthesizer resolution and/or rounding errors, you can end up with small frequency offsets.
apparently, this discussion is totally pointless.
The SDS5000X has 5 GS/s ... the SDS6000A has 5 GS/s -- and of course, I was just referring to the BOM. Let it be $10. It is a negligible overhead to include for an otherwise nice scope.
The SDS5000X has 5 GS/s ... the SDS6000A has 5 GS/s -- and of course, I was just referring to the BOM. Let it be $10. It is a negligible overhead to include for an otherwise nice scope.
It´s not only the material.
You have to change the pcb layout, you have to change the case (cutout) and what about all the scopes that were already build and sold...
The SDS5000X has 5 GS/s ... the SDS6000A has 5 GS/s -- and of course, I was just referring to the BOM. Let it be $10. It is a negligible overhead to include for an otherwise nice scope.
It´s not only the material.
You have to change the pcb layout, you have to change the case (cutout) and what about all the scopes that were already build and sold...Well, the input should have been in the design to being with. But it could be the synthesizer /PLL would have needed to be designed entirely different to facilitate a 10MHz input. It is not always trivial to generate all necessary frequencies from a single clock source while maintaining low jitter / phase noise.