| Products > Test Equipment |
| Siglent SDS800 Zoom out question (problem?) |
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| nctnico:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 03, 2024, 07:37:06 pm --- --- Quote from: Fungus on October 03, 2024, 07:04:20 pm --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 03, 2024, 06:38:42 pm ---"Zoom out" is term related to using zoom function. Nobody cares about "changing timebase after the stopped capture" except people that don't know how to set timebase right in the first place. --- End quote --- We could all learn to use left-handed scissors as well, but it's not optimal. --- End quote --- I fail to understand the comparison. --- End quote --- That is indeed your problem. Now just accept that you don't understand and all is well. There is lots of stuff I don't understand but I don't go around saying people are idiots because they can't make me understand. |
| 2N3055:
--- Quote from: nctnico on October 03, 2024, 08:09:37 pm --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 03, 2024, 07:37:06 pm --- --- Quote from: Fungus on October 03, 2024, 07:04:20 pm --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 03, 2024, 06:38:42 pm ---"Zoom out" is term related to using zoom function. Nobody cares about "changing timebase after the stopped capture" except people that don't know how to set timebase right in the first place. --- End quote --- We could all learn to use left-handed scissors as well, but it's not optimal. --- End quote --- I fail to understand the comparison. --- End quote --- That is indeed your problem. Now just accept that you don't understand and all is well. There is lots of stuff I don't understand but I don't go around saying people are idiots because they can't make me understand. --- End quote --- And you do understand what scissor comparison means? Why are you even arguing here? This so called "zooming out" in video has nothing to do with your method of capturing long with manual memory.... Why are you triggering to something that has nothing to do with you? OP didn't ask about that. And you gave him very good way of measuring his problem, that I very much agreed with. That needs no "zoom out" or even manual control of memory. So what is the problem. Nobody called you out. Mentioned video is based on wrong data and should not be taken seriously. If you think that manual control of memory is important for OP, than explain it and state your case. You have a lot of knowledge and I would rather OP gets your advice from real experience, than that clickbait video. Even if we disagree on many things, opinion wise. |
| Someone:
--- Quote from: frank2644 on October 03, 2024, 06:59:02 pm ---SOMEONE asked why I need that zoom function so I decided to recheck my RF sweep generator that I made a few years ago. That had some challenging waveforms. Surprisingly, the frequency steps are not measuring correctly or consistently so I have to figure out what's wrong, it's probably me. I've tried to describe the waveform details at the end of this note, but it's probably better not to get sidetracked in those details. Anyway, the purpose was to determine if a zoom out function would be useful. And so far I'm not sure. IOW, the off-screen capture in this case would probably not be large enough to be useful. Further, overall I'm starting to think the few times a zoom-out would be nice is not a big enough benefit to justify buying a different mfr's scope and having to learn it's operation and perhaps hit other shortcomings. If the zoom-out was a life-saver, I might thing differently, but now I don't think that's the case. I haven't reached a decision yet, but I'm leaning toward the subject Siglent scope. BTW, the few times I needed support the vendor TEquipment was very helpful and even got answers from Siglent for me. Although I never tried to get answers directly from Siglent myself. And I have to say, the SDS1104x-e I have has been very satisfactory. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Waveform details: Basically I capture a 360khz wide, 27 step sweep with a 10.7mhz center frequency. The sweep takes about 1/2 second to complete the 27 steps. The 27 step marker pulses are on chan 3, with the RF on chan 1. The goal is to verify the frequency is correct at each of the 27 markers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, again, to all who contributed. Any further comments are welcome. Frank --- End quote --- Do consider the other ways to capture that waveform as suggested above, and in relation to the diagram in the main thread on this topic (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/oscilloscope-zoom-out-quirk/msg4484857/#msg4484857) for your specific example of 500ms, the SDS800 with 50Mpts of memory allows for a sample rate of 100MS/s which might be enough to capture 10.7MHz cleanly. Depending on noise that may resolve the frequency accurately (easiest to just test, it won't be far off your current scope). Or you might find it better/quicker to use segmented capture as mentioned above to store only a short segment of each stable frequency after it has settled. Depends what you are looking at. Rarely is capturing around the window ("zoom out") actually improving anything at all. You're still limited by the available memory either way. All it does is save a little bit of screen space by not showing the full data all the time. THAT IS ALL IT DOES, people need to stop pretending like there is some magical unsaid benefit. You've stepped into this bizarre exaggerated theatre of a topic, it is being pushed by some people who want attention/views and once again trigged the same old crap that comes up every single time. Plenty of misleading noise which only makes it more confusing. |
| electr_peter:
On Siglent SDS800X HD there is no setting of time/div, memory size, etc. that results in possibility to zoom out, ever. Only visible screen width is captured (that can be zoomed in with long up to 50 or 100M memory) and that's it. Screen edges will be always be blank if you try to zoom out. EDIT: not all Siglent models behave this way, on some you can set fixed memory depth to capture beyond display. On Keysight InfiniVision scopes, there are specific conditions under which zoom out is possible - fast time base at max or max/2 sample rate, screen width that does not fully fill available memory and pressing STOP/SINGLE with new trigger event. Then there is data beyond screen edges which you can zoom out and analyze in any way you like. In all other conditions zoom out is not possible, only screen width is captured (including RUN mode at fast timebases). Of course, you can zoom in as well in any mode. Is zoom out useful? Definitely, it allows quicker understanding of signal behavior at fast time base (main focus) and at slower time base without re-capturing again. With Siglent scopes (models having no fixed memory setting), you would have to set slower timebase, capture again and zoom in - more steps and effort (not much, but still). It is kinda frustrating that Siglent scopes (models having no fixed memory setting) at fast time bases record only measly few hundred or k points on screen in STOP/SINGLE mode (with massive 50-100M in reserve) and you should be somehow happy about it - that leaves you blind in some cases. Is zoom out used much? In my case, sometimes. I do not really on it much, but it speedups analysis. Is zoom out reverse of zoom in? No, it's a memory management thing mainly and usage/usefulness is a bit different than zoom in function. Is zoom out critical to have? It is more of nice to have than must have. You can get around it with slower time base and zoom in instead, but I would prefer to have this feature in a scope. IMO, confusion about zoom out stems from auto vs manual memory setup philosophy. Automatic memory management in Keysight scopes is very well implemented (with many "tricks" or "cheats") with no manual control given to the user and it covers >99% scope use cases (plus extra capabilities like zoom out). Some just do not like this in principle and instead prefer to have manual control to set acquisition parameters themselves (with a bit more effort and essentially the same results in the end, but with no extras like zoom out). As mentioned, zoom out capability may or may not be available in a specific timebase - this ambiguity is not liked by some. EDIT: added clarification on Siglent models as they differ in memory management. |
| Someone:
--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 03, 2024, 10:52:49 pm ---With Siglent, you would have to set slower timebase, capture again and zoom in - more steps and effort (not much, but still). --- End quote --- How many times does this need to be repeated? You do not have to use that workflow, if you wish to navigate around a larger window then capture it in the first place using zoom (or whatever method you prefer). When stopped all the data is there and there is no need to recapture as you claim. |
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