Products > Test Equipment

Siglent SDS800 Zoom out question (problem?)

<< < (8/20) > >>

2N3055:

--- Quote from: Fungus on October 04, 2024, 04:42:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on October 03, 2024, 11:27:53 pm ---]How many times does this need to be repeated?
You do not have to use that workflow

--- End quote ---

How many times does it need to be repeated that it's the most natural, logical, sensible workflow.

There is NO POSSIBLE EXCUSE for just taking seven samples at maximum zoom and nothing on either side.

Hence the quip about scissors. Given the wide availability of right-handed scissors, why would anybody force themselves to learn and use left-handed ones?

--- End quote ---

You can repeat false statement milion times, it is not going to be less false...

Logical to you means nothing. Logical based on what premises?
That you choose to ignore how instrument should be used?

And no, it is not sensibile workflow. It your chosen workflow.
And it makes no sense to me, for instance. Deliberately slowing down the scope all the time because I might need some more data because I twiddle the knobs randomly without thinking so basically I need all the data I can so maybe I stumble on something by sheer luck...

You want to be able to look around event that lasts 100 µs? Set time base to 10µs/div and fit it on the screen. Then choose which part you want to look into detail. That is for stopped event.

You want to look at the detail and whole picture at the same time? Set time base to 10µs/div and fit it on the screen. Then enable zoom and look at the detail while seeing overview of the whole event all the time for easy navigation.

That is simplest way of doing it. It guarantees that you will 100% be able to see what you need, and guarantees optimum work of the scope at all times.
That applies to Keysight and Rigol too.

Look, you can use scope any way you want . Even stupid way. Other people will do it their way.
If you can achieve result using your way and you are happy with process good for you.

tautech:

--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 04, 2024, 02:38:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on October 03, 2024, 11:27:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 03, 2024, 10:52:49 pm ---With Siglent, you would have to set slower timebase, capture again and zoom in - more steps and effort (not much, but still).
--- End quote ---
How many times does this need to be repeated?

--- End quote ---
Full quote:
--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 03, 2024, 10:52:49 pm ---Is zoom out useful? Definitely, it allows quicker understanding of signal behavior at fast time base (main focus) and at slower time base without re-capturing again. With Siglent, you would have to set slower timebase, capture again and zoom in - more steps and effort (not much, but still).
--- End quote ---
How many times context of posts will be selectively ignored to discredit zoom out capability?

--- Quote ---You do not have to use that workflow, if you wish to navigate around a larger window then capture it in the first place using zoom (or whatever method you prefer). When stopped all the data is there and there is no need to recapture as you claim.

--- End quote ---
Yeah, no need to recapture because you ignored first capture which was deemed too short/fast for some reason (how did you arrive to such conclusion without capturing, anyway?) and then recaptured on purposely slower time base. Oh, wait :palm:

Keysight can capture at fast timebase AND gets more memory (aka "zoom out") AND can do whatever analysis with this capture. OR it can capture at slower timebase and do whatever.
Siglent can capture at fast timebase AND gets less memory thus FORCING you to recapture again in slower timebase if fast timebase capture memory if insufficient for analysis. Only after recapturing at slower timebase (which now gives adequate memory) you are free to do whatever.

Keysight memory management is more flexible at fast timebases (while having no downsides) compared to Siglent. Scope gives more capture memory at fast timebases, obvious advantage. This fact does not change if some users do not appreciate/choose to ignore it.

Let's say you are in hypothetical T&M cafe drinking coffee. Waiter asks if you want anything else and you say: "Can I have a biscuit, please?"
If T&M cafe is run by Siglent, waiter responds: "Biscuit is not available to customers who have ordered coffee already. However, we will make biscuit if you order it with an additional coffee."
If T&M cafe is run by Keysight, waiter responds: "I will check if biscuit is available and get it for you. If not, we will make biscuit if you order it with an additional coffee."
Which cafe provides better service? :D
In this analogy exchange coffee to single capture and biscuit to memory beyond display limits and you will get the gist.

--- End quote ---
Peter, you name Siglent several times in your chapter about scope zoom use.

Respectfully I would like to inform you not all Siglent DSO's use the same zoom mechanisms and those with deep memory have a magnitude more zoom out than most on the market when set to do so.

However like 2N3055 mentions, there is a performance price to pay for this capability which is the reason why Siglent, LeCroy and others prefer not to capture off screen or employ tricks to do so.

electr_peter:

--- Quote from: tautech on October 04, 2024, 07:53:10 pm ---Peter, you name Siglent several times in your chapter about scope zoom use.

Respectfully I would like to inform you not all Siglent DSO's use the same zoom mechanisms and those with deep memory have a magnitude more zoom out than most on the market when set to do so.

--- End quote ---
Fair point, I wrote with Siglent SDS800X HD model in mind (as in initial question of this topic) just not to repeat full name all the time. Some Siglent scopes can be set up to have "zoom out" behavior manually with fixed memory length setting (but slowing update rate). I will adjust post to mention this. EDIT: posts were updated

--- Quote ---However like 2N3055 mentions, there is a performance price to pay for this capability which is the reason why Siglent, LeCroy and others prefer not to capture off screen or employ tricks to do so.

--- End quote ---
Sampling full memory all the time will slow down things, no doubt. I am familiar with Keysight memory tricks which allow both fast update in RUN mode and full memory in STOP/SINGLE mode with no downsides, which proves that auto memory management is better than manual in most cases. These points are mentioned in my posts above.

Someone:

--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 04, 2024, 02:38:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on October 03, 2024, 11:27:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 03, 2024, 10:52:49 pm ---With Siglent, you would have to set slower timebase, capture again and zoom in - more steps and effort (not much, but still).
--- End quote ---
How many times does this need to be repeated?

--- End quote ---
Full quote:
--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 03, 2024, 10:52:49 pm ---Is zoom out useful? Definitely, it allows quicker understanding of signal behavior at fast time base (main focus) and at slower time base without re-capturing again. With Siglent scopes (models having no fixed memory setting), you would have to set slower timebase, capture again and zoom in - more steps and effort (not much, but still).
--- End quote ---
How many times context of posts will be selectively ignored to discredit zoom out capability?

--- Quote ---You do not have to use that workflow, if you wish to navigate around a larger window then capture it in the first place using zoom (or whatever method you prefer). When stopped all the data is there and there is no need to recapture as you claim.

--- End quote ---
Yeah, no need to recapture because you ignored first capture which was deemed too short/fast for some reason (how did you arrive to such conclusion without capturing, anyway?) and then recaptured on purposely slower time base. Oh, wait :palm:
--- End quote ---
You are the one saying there is a certain number of ways to use a scope and listing them. Completely ignoring and avoiding the case of using zoom from the start:

User wants to capture a trace longer than what they are viewing on the screen (for whatever reason)
User sets their scope to capture that longer window, for "around screen" method they set a longer memory depth and adjust timebase for desired view, for zoom method they set the horizontal time base and then zoom in to the desired view
Now when the magic single capture arrives where they want to "zoom out"
"around screen" method adjusts horizontal timebase, zoom method adjusts zoom control

User did not need to recapture another trace/event/trigger. That is an imaginary problem that you invent and pretend like there is no possible way around it.

Pretty much the only difference between these is, "around screen" does not show the zoom window so the view is a little larger, zoom method has full control of where the wider capture is placed. They are barely different but we have people like you consistently adding confusion and noise and claiming there is no possible way to achieve anything like "zoom out" when that has been debunked and explained so many times it is getting silly. Differences are incredibly minor, thats all that needs to be said. Instead we seem to end up with this misdirection and shouting about "CANT ZOOM OUT" and people new to these products end up confused and mislead rather than informed and confident.


--- Quote from: electr_peter on October 04, 2024, 02:38:22 pm ---Keysight scope gives more capture memory at fast timebases or is faster in RUN mode, obvious advantage. This fact does not change if some users do not appreciate/choose to ignore it.
--- End quote ---
Expect it does NOT do that in run mode, only when you press stop and the trigger is periodic and another the trigger occurs in a brief moment after the user presses stop.

Which was explained several times in the linked mega thread on this topic. Why keep posting the same things which have been debunked and shown to be incorrect so many times before?

Someone:

--- Quote from: Fungus on October 04, 2024, 04:42:39 pm ---There is NO POSSIBLE EXCUSE for just taking seven samples at maximum zoom and nothing on either side.
--- End quote ---
Capturing data around the view is an important parameter which the user should be able to choose. Adding memory around the screen reduces the waveform update rate. The nonsense claims of zero downside are plainly false.

Why keep coming back with already debunked claims? Why would anyone trust your comments when these ones are so plainly lies?

edit* Here is the specific example of this specific point being explained in depth with examples and context, 4 years ago in the mega thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/oscilloscope-zoom-out-quirk/msg3499730/#msg3499730

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod